DH going through breakdown. Support only, please.

[maize]

I would talk to the children about how any part of our body may become sick. Sometimes we have a sore throat. Sometimes we have an upset stomach. Some people have asthma that makes it so their lungs don't always function well. Use examples familiar to your children, and talk about the different functions of different parts of the body.

 

Explain that our brains are the part of our body that we use for thinking, for figuring things out, for feelings, for understanding, for choosing things to say. Tell them that sometimes brains get sick and don't work very well. This can make it hard for a person to think clearly, it can make their feelings all jumbled and make it hard for them to make decisions that make sense. Tell them that their dad has a brain that sometimes has this kind of trouble. It is not his fault that his brain gets sick. It is not their fault or your fault or anyone else's fault. But when his brain is sick his thoughts are jumbled and his feelings are jumbled and he gets confused and might make some decisions that don't make sense. Tell them that these jumbled thoughts and feelings coming from his sick brain are the reason he is behaving strangely and the reason he feels he needs some time away right now.

 

Tell them that doctors have ways of helping sick brains but they cannot always cure them. Tell them you are trying to encourage dad to get help from the doctors who can help him.

 

Reassure them that their dad loves them and that he does not want to be sick, it is not something he chooses anymore than we might choose to get a sore throat or tummy ache. Tell them you don't know for sure if dad's brain will get better but that you will continue to always be there to take care of them and that things will work out.

 

Pray with them.

Edited May 2, 2017 by maize

[idnib]

I'm the one who suggested an Airbnb. I definitely had in mind a place he would have to himself. In my area they are cheaper by the night than hotels and more expensive than comparable apartments. I was thinking of it as an alternative to signing a long lease. Knowing the lease is 3 months puts my mind more at ease. Around here you would not be able to get a lease for less than 6 months, and even that's much more difficult to find compared to 12 months.

 

I know manic people can trash places; I have had to clean one of those up. But nothing in the OP suggests that. The person I cleaned up after had no hyper sexuality or desire for an open marriage, but she was very focused on nesting and hoarding. Mania presents very differently in individuals; I'm assuming OP will ignore my idea if she is concerned about destruction.

Edited May 2, 2017 by idnib

[Moonhawk]

Well I got a text this morning saying he's sorry, he doesn't know what he's doing, he doesn't want to be apart from us, and he'll take meds if I want him to.

[happi duck]

(hugs)

 

These extreme ups and downs must be so hard on you!

 

I hope meds can happen soon.

[idnib]

Well I got a text this morning saying he's sorry, he doesn't know what he's doing, he doesn't want to be apart from us, and he'll take meds if I want him to.

 

If you can, see if he will meet you at the ER so you can try and make this happen.

[Scarlett]

Wow what now?

[Anne in CA]

I strongly suspected this would be the case. I am not surprised at all. I hope an ER doc can get your dh meds ASAP. 

[Liz CA]

Well I got a text this morning saying he's sorry, he doesn't know what he's doing, he doesn't want to be apart from us, and he'll take meds if I want him to.

 

Now you have some leverage perhaps. Tell him to see the doc, pick up his meds and then you discuss together what the future could look like. People have said this before here and I agree that taking his meds has to be a requirement and if he slacks off there have to be consequences. What those are, you have to decide. I sincerely hope you will not have to cycle through this every couple of months or years as you said in your OP. Making the meds a non-negotiable requirement will not remove all issues associated with bipolar disorder since he can decide to stop again and again but I would establish some kind of safety net for you and the kids and consequences for him, i.e., separation from his family.

 

Hugs to you. I cannot imagine having to navigate those rough waters with young children and even a baby.

 

[maize]

Whether it is ER doc or a family doctor or someone else who prescribes, I do think it could be wise to make his returning home contingent upon starting medication first.

 

What psychiatric resources are there in your area? Any competent doctor can get him started on a prescription, but you will want a specialist to follow up with. Psychiatric MD's can take a long time to get in with (in patient hospitalization is sometimes the only way to speed up that process) but you might run a search locally for a nurse practitioner specializing in psychiatry. My husband goes to one and has had a better experience there than with the psychiatrist he met with before--the NP actually takes the time to really talk through symptoms, medications, and side effects with him. The psychiatrist was in-and-out, here's your prescription.

 

I'm sure it is not always that way, every provider is individual.

 

With my husband, I found I could not rely on him to remember and take his medication consistently. Dispensing medication, staying on top of refills, etc. became my job.

[Seasider]

If you can, see if he will meet you at the ER so you can try and make this happen.

This! Your best bet is to take immediate action while you have this opening to do so!

[idnib]

If you talk to him about the ER, be sure to tell him you and the children love him very much, and offer to stay with him the entire time and hold his hand. Acknowledge that mania can feel really good but also remind him that it doesn't come without a penalty, and this is the best time to change his trajectory; later will be harder. If he's balking about the medication, tell him he can just get an evaluation to see where he's at without having to take the medication.

[Miss Mousie]

I think this is great news, and definitely a step in the right direction, but the part I bolded below concerns me:

 

Well I got a text this morning saying he's sorry, he doesn't know what he's doing, he doesn't want to be apart from us, and he'll take meds if I want him to.

 

I have a hunch that if he is allowed to "keep" that notion of doing it only because you want him to will come back later as "you MADE me take meds I didn't want and you ruined my creativity and livelihood!"  IMO, he needs to say he's doing it because HE wants to.

 

And ... since I mentioned the creativity part ... I believe there is lots of info available online showing that meds often *enhance* creativity because the brain is finally able to focus and remain stable.  

 

I'll continue to think of you and your family and send best wishes your way.

 

 

[bolt.]

Well I got a text this morning saying he's sorry, he doesn't know what he's doing, he doesn't want to be apart from us, and he'll take meds if I want him to.

That's a sudden turn! It would be totally normal for you to have extremely mixed feelings about this.

 

Trust yourself. No matter what, you are a strong, intelligent and deeply capable woman -- you both know him and love him; you also know this illness. Of all the people in the world to be responding to him right now you are absolutely the most qualified.

[Word Nerd]

Whether it is ER doc or a family doctor or someone else who prescribes, I do think it could be wise to make his returning home contingent upon starting medication first.

 

I agree. I hope this is the kick he needs to get serious about treatment.

[idnib]

I think this is great news, and definitely a step in the right direction, but the part I bolded below concerns me:

 

 

I have a hunch that if he is allowed to "keep" that notion of doing it only because you want him to will come back later as "you MADE me take meds I didn't want and you ruined my creativity and livelihood!"  IMO, he needs to say he's doing it because HE wants to.

 

I agree, but he probably can't get there from where he is now. He likely needs meds to stabilize and then therapy to come to terms with the fact that he has a chronic condition and needs to take meds willingly. 

[NorthwestMom]

I think this is great news, and definitely a step in the right direction, but the part I bolded below concerns me:

 

 

I have a hunch that if he is allowed to "keep" that notion of doing it only because you want him to will come back later as "you MADE me take meds I didn't want and you ruined my creativity and livelihood!"  IMO, he needs to say he's doing it because HE wants to.

 

And ... since I mentioned the creativity part ... I believe there is lots of info available online showing that meds often *enhance* creativity because the brain is finally able to focus and remain stable.  

 

I'll continue to think of you and your family and send best wishes your way.

 

Moonhawk's DH is making a choice. He can choose to take the meds or not. At this moment, he is choosing meds. She can't make him take them or not take them. Hopefully good therapy will help him understand his choices. 

 

His brain is sick and is not making rational decisions, so the ideal outcome is that once he is stable on his meds and can feel the benefits of therapy and stability, he will be able to come around to maintaining medication stability because he wants to.  

 

In my situation, I honestly don't care if DH "wants to" stay on his medication or not. He can stay on it, and stay married to me, or he can choose to go off his meds, and we will not stay married. We both have choices to make.

[Miss Mousie]

I agree, but he probably can't get there from where he is now. He likely needs meds to stabilize and then therapy to come to terms with the fact that he has a chronic condition and needs to take meds willingly. 

 

 

Moonhawk's DH is making a choice. He can choose to take the meds or not. At this moment, he is choosing meds. She can't make him take them or not take them. Hopefully good therapy will help him understand his choices. 

 

His brain is sick and is not making rational decisions, so the ideal outcome is that once he is stable on his meds and can feel the benefits of therapy and stability, he will be able to come around to maintaining medication stability because he wants to.  

 

In my situation, I honestly don't care if DH "wants to" stay on his medication or not. He can stay on it, and stay married to me, or he can choose to go off his meds, and we will not stay married. We both have choices to make.

 

I agree with both of you.  That's what I meant by not allowing him to "keep" that notion, but I didn't make that clear.  I didn't mean to suggest that he has to say right now that he wants to, just that the issue shouldn't pass under the bridge altogether without being explicitly addressed when he's in a better place.

[LucyStoner]

My suggestion to change the locks wasn't about safety but rather about boundaries. In Moonhawk's shoes, I would prefer that he knock, rather than walk in, for example. Not because he has bipolar but because separation requires some space.

 

Besides starting meds again, I think he should be seeing a psychiatrist regularly. I would be inclined to make doing so part of the conditions of coming back home.

Edited May 2, 2017 by LucyStoner

[OneStepAtATime]

My suggestion to change the locks wasn't about safety but rather about boundaries. In Moonhawk's shoes, I would prefer that he knock, rather than walk in, for example. Not because he has bipolar but because separation requires some space.

 

Besides starting meds again, I think he should be seeing a psychiatrist regularly. I would be inclined to make doing so part of the conditions of coming back home.

Agreed.  Probably I would want to get it in writing, not that it would be legally binding or anything.  The writing would be so everyone can reread and know what is expected.  After he is on meds, once he is more stable, have both of you sign that paper and maybe in front of a witness so he is aware that you are very serious about establishing clear guidelines for how this works going forward and what your limits are for his choices in the future.  And then I would absolutely stick with those limits as much as humanly possible.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Misha]

This  may come across as harsh. I apologize if it does, as it is not my intention. 

My step-dad is severely bipolar. 

 

When I was 11, he stopped taking his medication. Even though I was in school and my mother tried to shield me, it was awful. My mother had him committed against his will and he remained hospitalized for more than a month. I was sent to live at my grandparent's and no one really talked about what was going on. It was frightening and such an awful situation for a child to be in, regardless of how "protected" they are. They're aware to more than most parents realize and how they see the "well" parent acting is how they set the bar for themselves in future relationships. 

 

She was divorced (Catholic) and really didn't want to get divorced again, but she told him flat out that she would divorce him if he ever went off his meds again. Since then, he sees his psychiatrist regularly (monthly) and has remained on his meds. 

 

I've never forgotten how frightened and powerless I felt. My mother behaved in a capacity that left me no doubt that she wanted what was safest and best for me. 

 

 

I'm hoping for the best for you, OP. Stay safe and keep your children safe. 

[gardenmom5]

This  may come across as harsh. I apologize if it does, as it is not my intention. 

My step-dad is severely bipolar. 

 

When I was 11, he stopped taking his medication. Even though I was in school and my mother tried to shield me, it was awful. My mother had him committed against his will and he remained hospitalized for more than a month. I was sent to live at my grandparent's and no one really talked about what was going on. It was frightening and such an awful situation for a child to be in, regardless of how "protected" they are. They're aware to more than most parents realize and how they see the "well" parent acting is how they set the bar for themselves in future relationships. 

 

She was divorced (Catholic) and really didn't want to get divorced again, but she told him flat out that she would divorce him if he ever went off his meds again. Since then, he sees his psychiatrist regularly (monthly) and has remained on his meds. 

 

I've never forgotten how frightened and powerless I felt. My mother behaved in a capacity that left me no doubt that she wanted what was safest and best for me. 

 

 

I'm hoping for the best for you, OP. Stay safe and keep your children safe. 

 

yes.  I was probably three or four when my mother had her first nervous breakdown. I was hauled off to my paternal grandmother's, where I had to entertain myself. (and I don't think i had ever spent the night there before. ) she was hauled off to an inpatient mental hospital.  I heard the adults talking, including my mother's parents blaming my dad  - but no one tried to explain to me that mommy was sick,  the drs were trying to help her get better, etc.

everything was different after she came back, all without any explanation. it was confusing for a small child.

 

I remember when 1ds was born - 2dd was 3 1/2.  she was angry at me for going to the hospital and wouldn't come near me for several days.  this is a vulnerable age when they dont' know what is going on - and we'd told dd and she'd visited me - and she was still standoffish.

 

[Guest]

Dang, OP, I bet you're exhausted.

 

((()))

[BlessedMom]

((((((Hugs & Prayers))))))

[displace]

Praying for you and hoping things are as good as can be.

[LMD]

praying for you moonhawk, and for your husband.

[Melissa in Australia]

Hugs

[BooksandBoys]

Thinking of you, Moonhawk.

[Anne]

Continuing to pray for you, Moonhawk....

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

Anne

[BlessedMom]

Moonhawk you are in my thoughts and prayers this morning.

[happi duck]

more (hugs)

[NorthwestMom]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[mominco]

:grouphug:

[BlessedMom]

Praying for you this evening. ((((((Hugs))))))

[Vintage81]

Continued  :grouphug: for you Moonhawk.

[MercyA]

Praying for you and your family daily, Moonhawk.  :grouphug:

[Heatherwith4]

Thinking about you today. :grouphug:

[BlessedMom]

You are on my heart and in my thought and prayers.

Trusting the Lord to provide what you need during this time!

[cintinative]

Praying.

 

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Okra]

I am also praying for you.

[Mimm]

Well I got a text this morning saying he's sorry, he doesn't know what he's doing, he doesn't want to be apart from us, and he'll take meds if I want him to.

 

Talk about emotional whiplash. How are you doing with all this?

[Moonhawk]

Hey guys, sorry for the radio silence. It's been kind of crazy, and can't believe it's already Friday. It is Friday, right? 

 

He's home, dr appt scheduled for today, family doctor for now just to get something going. Next psych appt was scheduled for next Wednesday, though the guy on the phone didn't sound sure it was an actual appointment and not just another intake appointment. But idk how you could need 3 intake appointments? I'm going to call them today to make sure its the earliest he can get in, and exactly what type of appointment it is.

 

He's had a definite mind shift over the "dating" thing.  He is totally uninterested in that now, it was like a light switch. Now the main problem seems to be just the chaos of family and the house that seems to be overwhelming him. He's depressed, but trying to just work through it and distract himself. He did take me out and is sincerely trying to do nice things for me to make up for..well, everything. He's got a long way to go on that front, but I am trying not to really expect much or feel the angry feelings until after he is stabilized more. Don't want to derail the progress he's making, and he is putting in a ton of effort into just staying calm and together. 

 

Not sure how I'm doing personally myself. Just focused on keeping it all together at this point, trying to keep the chaos down, good vibes up, and just everything running as smoothly as possible. Once he stabilizes I'll feel more comfortable letting myself breathe easier, but right now I know we're not really out of the woods yet, or could go back into them easily. 

 

Thanks for the support and prayers, it's made all the difference through this. <3

[maize]

Many hugs, it sounds like the worst of this particular crisis is past and that you are being realistic about the long road ahead.

 

Will you be able to go with him to the doctor?

 

I am praying that you will be able to find an effective medication regime quickly. Also, if he will meet regularly with a therapist who will both address the cognitive side of things and follow up with him on lifestyle factors such as diet, sleep, and exercise it can make a big difference. Having someone to be accountable to for taking care of himself will hopefully relieve some of the pressure from you--you already have yourself and your children to take care of.

[Anne in CA]

I agree that three intake appointments seems ridiculous. I'm glad you are questioning it. The thing I am the most sorry about is how hard it is to get help once you get someone to agree they need help. I will keep praying.

[Catwoman]

Thank you for the update, Moonhawk -- still praying for your family. :grouphug:

[displace]

Praying for you to have strength and stability.

[idnib]

Hey guys, sorry for the radio silence. It's been kind of crazy, and can't believe it's already Friday. It is Friday, right? 

 

He's home, dr appt scheduled for today, family doctor for now just to get something going. Next psych appt was scheduled for next Wednesday, though the guy on the phone didn't sound sure it was an actual appointment and not just another intake appointment. But idk how you could need 3 intake appointments? I'm going to call them today to make sure its the earliest he can get in, and exactly what type of appointment it is.

 

He's had a definite mind shift over the "dating" thing.  He is totally uninterested in that now, it was like a light switch. Now the main problem seems to be just the chaos of family and the house that seems to be overwhelming him. He's depressed, but trying to just work through it and distract himself. He did take me out and is sincerely trying to do nice things for me to make up for..well, everything. He's got a long way to go on that front, but I am trying not to really expect much or feel the angry feelings until after he is stabilized more. Don't want to derail the progress he's making, and he is putting in a ton of effort into just staying calm and together. 

 

Not sure how I'm doing personally myself. Just focused on keeping it all together at this point, trying to keep the chaos down, good vibes up, and just everything running as smoothly as possible. Once he stabilizes I'll feel more comfortable letting myself breathe easier, but right now I know we're not really out of the woods yet, or could go back into them easily. 

 

Thanks for the support and prayers, it's made all the difference through this. <3

 

 

Thanks for the update.

 

Some people cycle rather rapidly between being manic and being depressed. Definitely mention the change to the doctor not with a "thank the heavens it seems to be over" approach, but by asking about rapid cycling. I'm not saying that's what's happening, but I think you should look into it if it appears his manic phase ended this quickly.

[Melissa in Australia]

Hugs

[bolt.]

As always, I'm sure you know best. (It's a cliche but I mean it!) Might it be a good time to get him to sign some documents, consent forms, or various things? (Such as something that will allow you to have access to more information on his health, or dividing up money access and limiting his scope for damage, or anything.)

[Minerva]

Sending more hugs to you and your family and also my utmost respect for your tenacity.