Gary Ezzo parenting methods--problems?

[maize]

Someone local is recommending Babywise to a young mother. I know I've heard bad things about Ezzo--can someone point me towards information I can share?

[Desert Strawberry]

www.ezzo.info

 

 

Edited January 9, 2017 by Desert Strawberry

[MercyA]

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Edited February 14, 2017 by MercyA

[HS Mom in NC]

I've heard that Babywise has been rewritten and is significantly different in its most recent printings compared to its earlier printings.  I haven't read and compared them myself.

[TranquilMind]

I read it back in the day (my kids are nearly grown and grown). 

 

As a person who is easily able to distinguish information that works for me from what wouldn't work for me, I thought it was helpful.  I didn't do every single thing it told me to do, but I still remember the information about getting your kids on a loose schedule as quickly as possible because everyone is happier well rested. 

 

The order was Eat, Play, Sleep.  Always that order (of course infants fall asleep faster). 

But it worked.  I had great sleepers from 5-6 weeks on.   I followed a loose schedule, not a slavish one, dictated by the clock and not my common sense. 

So that one piece of information for someone who had never been around babies at all worked for me.

Edited January 9, 2017 by TranquilMind

[Epicurean]

Unless the older versions are vastly different from the ones I read, I enjoyed and benefited from the methods in Babywise and found nothing objectionable about it.

 

I do find it strange that you'd try to dissuade someone from using a book you yourself have zero experience with.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Epicurean

[IfIOnly]

I read it back in the day (my kids are nearly grown and grown). 

 

As a person who is easily able to distinguish information that works for me from what wouldn't work for me, I thought it was helpful.  I didn't do every single thing it told me to do, but I still remember the information about getting your kids on a loose schedule as quickly as possible because everyone is happier well rested. 

 

The order was Eat, Play, Sleep.  Always that order (of course infants fall asleep faster). 

 

But it worked.  I had great sleepers from 5-6 weeks on.   I followed a loose schedule, not a slavish one, dictated by the clock and not my common sense. 

So that one piece of information for someone who had never been around babies at all worked for me.

 

In some ways it's a truly awful book, but I agree with your take. If you want to develop good sleep habits and are have a personality where you need more structure or don't agree that you have to live in utter chaos or with sleep deprivation for the next few years of babes life, then, there's not a lot out there to choose from.  

 

I used BW's thoughts about putting the baby to sleep awake from the very beginning and forming a gentle routine for babe. I am so, so thankful for this help as a young mom, but the breastfeeding advice is truly awful. Not very many women can go 3 hours between feeds and continue to to produce enough milk to exclusively breastfeed for at least 6 months, forget about making to a year. MOST of the women I know who follow BW rigidly have to supplement and loose their milk supply early on. Gee, I wonder why? Also, breast milk is digested much quicker than formula, about 1.5 hours. Some babies would be truly hungry and the time they are supposed to go down for their nap. :(

 

So our routine looked like this:

 

wake: nurse, I tried to make sure that they didn't sleep in in the morning or too much during the day so they would sleep at NIGHT

get sleepy and naptime: nurse, if babe fell asleep fine, but I didn't move mountains to put them to bed asleep. Just put them to bed awake or not, usually awake

wake: nurse

you get the idea.

 

Naps get fewer and far between, but we never went more than two hour breastfeeding if that was babe's primary food source. My kids were awesome, awesome nappers. I had a play pen next to my bed and never really cared about my babe (not infant) waking up at night to nurse once (especially because nursing for me kept my cycles away. Sweet!) and always wake and fed them before I went to sleep and they went right back to bed. 

 

We so a bit of crying in dad's arms when I'm ready to be done night nursing.

 

The No-cry Sleep Solution is a decent baby book to recommended if you know a mom needs some more structure in this area, but don't want to recommend BW. Personally, I love the BW suggested nap schedule and changes as babe grows though.  

Edited January 9, 2017 by ifIonlyhadabrain

[scholastica]

My pediatrician and I discussed the book when someone recommended it to me. She told me she had more parents in tears from trying to follow that book than any other parenting philosophy. I think it works when you have the kind of baby that it works for, otherwise not so much. 

[poppy]

It is extreme authoritarian parenting, from what i understand, to the degree of deliberately avoiding feeding hungry nursing babies if not on schedule.  I can't wrap my head around that personally. 

[TravelingChris]

You mean that all of you who breastfed didn't get to sleep most of the night until at least six months post partum?  Or did you all start feeding food at 4 months?  I used soy formula for all three kids and they were all sleeping through the night (basically 11 or 12 midnight to 6 am) by about six weeks.  I also started food with them at four months,  My reasons for not breastfeeding were health related (my health)  but if you can't ever sleep more than three hours, I don't think I would want to breastfeed anyway.  That sounds like a way to make sure you get sick- long term sleep deprivation.  Do most breastfeeding moms really get up every three hours?

[shawthorne44]

She'd said 3 hour cycle?   Maybe I read one of the later editions?    I just remember Eat-Activity-Sleep-Yourself.   Maybe I glossed over the time.   I do remember thinking that waking up a newborn that fell asleep breastfeeding was just cruel and unusual to both mother and baby.  So, I didn't do.  

 

To answer the previous post, I got about a 6 hour stretch of sleep from almost right away.  DH is a night-owl.  So, I went to bed in the evening whenever I felt I needed to.  He took care of baby until he went to bed.   So, he brought her to me to breastfeed.   If you don't have to get up, breastfeeding a baby is less disruptive to your sleep than waking up for the bathroom.   So, I'd go to bed at least 2 hours before DH, and she would bring her to me at least once before he went to bed, then she'd do her long sleep of about 4 hours when the house was quiet.  So, 6 hours of sleep at night, and naps during the day and I was fine.  Of course I do remember agreeing to the "poor tired new mother" comment because I was wearing my shirt inside out.   But, I do that about once a year anyway.   

Edited January 9, 2017 by shawthorne44

[AnnE-girl]

As far as I know, it's the only book that the AAP has warned can lead to failure to thrive. It's terrible for breastfeeding mothers who are likely to follow the book strictly. There are so many other books that have good ideas about structuring your day for healthy sleep without endangering the breastfeeding relationship, there's no reason to give Ezzo any money.

[IfIOnly]

BW recommend breastfeeding every three hours of so (maybe more "generous" with infants) during the day. Not the night. The whole point of book is to get babe on a breastfeeding and napping schedule during the day and to sleep during the night.

 

There are many, many, if not most women who will need to nurse more frequently during the day than ever 3 hours or they will need will loose their milk supply or have to supplement with formula. That is a proven fact. One unfortunately that BW does not mention.  It's truly awful breastfeeding advice.

Edited January 9, 2017 by ifIonlyhadabrain

[poppy]

The Baby Whisperer books offer that kind of 'establish a rhythm' advice in a way that is more flexible.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I was a new mom when the first edition of BW came out and dealt with the spiritually abusive advice from their religious baby and parenting classes. I did read their earlier materials and I wanted to gag with disgust and cry for moms and babies who were subjected to their advice. I don't care if newer editions are "better". I still would not want to give them a penny of my money because I believe they are dishonest and deceitful people who have very little training in anything relevant to raising children. The good in the books can be found elsewhere and the bad is just so harmful. They set things up as an either/or paradigm. ... either you do things our way or you will end up with a baby who controls their parents. Their goals are not developmentally or medically appropriate for most babies or mothers.

 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

[TravelingChris]

Oh, okay,  So one can breastfeed as needed during the day and then sleep at night as long as the baby sleeps?  Babywise was popular when my kids were small at least the youngest.  (20 years ago),   I really didn't see a reason to feed on a strict schedule.  I mean, I fed in the morning when baby woke up and also right before going to sleep at night but the rest of the time was played by ear.

[Harriet Vane]

You mean that all of you who breastfed didn't get to sleep most of the night until at least six months post partum?  Or did you all start feeding food at 4 months?  I used soy formula for all three kids and they were all sleeping through the night (basically 11 or 12 midnight to 6 am) by about six weeks.  I also started food with them at four months,  My reasons for not breastfeeding were health related (my health)  but if you can't ever sleep more than three hours, I don't think I would want to breastfeed anyway.  That sounds like a way to make sure you get sick- long term sleep deprivation.  Do most breastfeeding moms really get up every three hours?

 

 

Typically babies go much longer between feedings at night even if they don't sleep through the night. I nursed my babies for 2+ years, each, and I nursed exclusively the first six months for both. Both started life outside the womb waking twice per night. After a few months, they woke once per night. That was doable. 

 

I would lose my mind if I had to get up and nurse ever 90 minutes all night.

[Wabi Sabi]

Oh, okay,  So one can breastfeed as needed during the day and then sleep at night as long as the baby sleeps?  Babywise was popular when my kids were small at least the youngest.  (20 years ago),   I really didn't see a reason to feed on a strict schedule.  I mean, I fed in the morning when baby woke up and also right before going to sleep at night but the rest of the time was played by ear.

I nursed my kids as needed, day or night. Sometimes they wanted to eat much more frequently than once every three hours, other times they would go much longer stretches. We co-slept, so usually I only half woke up, rolled over, latched the baby on and went back to sleep. All night, all you can eat milk buffet!  :lol:

[TechWife]

You mean that all of you who breastfed didn't get to sleep most of the night until at least six months post partum?  Or did you all start feeding food at 4 months?  I used soy formula for all three kids and they were all sleeping through the night (basically 11 or 12 midnight to 6 am) by about six weeks.  I also started food with them at four months,  My reasons for not breastfeeding were health related (my health)  but if you can't ever sleep more than three hours, I don't think I would want to breastfeed anyway.  That sounds like a way to make sure you get sick- long term sleep deprivation.  Do most breastfeeding moms really get up every three hours?

 

Heavens, no. Breastfed kids sleep through the night when they are mature enough to do so. When they get enough nutrition during the day, they sleep through the night. Like any other baby who is hungry during the night, they will wake up. If a baby wakes up during the night, you should feed it, whether it is breastfed, bottle fed or eating steak. Hungry babies should eat. 

 

My baby slept through the night beginning at around ten weeks old. I nursed him through his thirteenth month. Solids were introduced at what was a normal schedule for a baby at that time (I just don't remember what it was). 

Edited January 9, 2017 by TechWife

[TechWife]

Oh, okay,  So one can breastfeed as needed during the day and then sleep at night as long as the baby sleeps?  

 

Of course! 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

The tidbits of good advice in that book can be found in other books that don't have the dangerous idiocy Ezzo advocates.

[maize]

Heavens, no. Breastfed kids sleep through the night when they are mature enough to do so. When they get enough nutrition during the day, they sleep through the night. Like any other baby who is hungry during the night, they will wake up. If a baby wakes up during the night, you should feed it, whether it is breastfed, bottle fed or eating steak. Hungry babies should eat.

 

My baby slept through the night beginning at around ten weeks old. I nursed him through his thirteenth month. Solids were introduced at what was a normal schedule for a baby at that time (I just don't remember what it was).

Well, this really does depend on the baby.

 

Mine never slept through the night as babies. Not a single one of them. My two year old still doesn't sleep through the night. She's been weaned for a couple of months now but still wakes up multiple times each night.

 

Babies sleeping through the night are unicorns in my house.

[redsquirrel]

You mean that all of you who breastfed didn't get to sleep most of the night until at least six months post partum?  Or did you all start feeding food at 4 months?  I used soy formula for all three kids and they were all sleeping through the night (basically 11 or 12 midnight to 6 am) by about six weeks.  I also started food with them at four months,  My reasons for not breastfeeding were health related (my health)  but if you can't ever sleep more than three hours, I don't think I would want to breastfeed anyway.  That sounds like a way to make sure you get sick- long term sleep deprivation.  Do most breastfeeding moms really get up every three hours?

 

My kids didn't sleep through the night until they were well into their third year.  And they absolutely woke to nurse at least every three hours when they were tiny infants.  That was part of why I co-slept.  I just latched the baby on and went back to sleep. It wasn't a problem.

 

 

And I have it in the back of my mind that Ezzo and Babywise were linked to a baby dying from dehydration...? Or is that some other cry it out baby book? He's not the guy who tells you to hit your baby is he?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I have never understood why so many people give any credit to a baby book written by some clown with a degree in theology.

[lovinmyboys]

Like most everyone else, I think there are way better books out there.

 

IME, babies sleep through the night when they do. Some of it may be the parents, but it is mostly the baby. Two of mine were great sleepers and two weren't. Those two still aren't good sleepers, but now they just turn on an audiobook. I didn't do much different among the four (obviously I didn't do things exactly the same-but it was pretty close).

[matrips]

I remember reading it, and thought the basics were helpful. It was an easy read with a basic schedule (the eat, sleep, play) to follow. I remember using the clock to put the kids (triplets) down for naps instead of waiting until they were overtired and rubbing eyes etc. that was huge for me. I thought it worked well and would have never known how quickly they really tired out. I think it was also the book that talked about what was stimulating or overstimulating to a baby. Again, a helpful concept to a new mom.

 

Even at older ages, I have put them to bed based on the time and whether I thought they were tired, while someone else would think they were not tired because of how active or awake they seemed. They'd be asleep with minutes.

 

I read a bunch of books and took stuff from each, but I do remember liking baby wise despite the controversary.

[IfIOnly]

I remember reading it, and thought the basics were helpful. It was an easy read with a basic schedule (the eat, sleep, play) to follow. I remember using the clock to put the kids (triplets) down for naps instead of waiting until they were overtired and rubbing eyes etc. that was huge for me. I thought it worked well and would have never known how quickly they really tired out. I think it was also the book that talked about what was stimulating or overstimulating to a baby. Again, a helpful concept to a new mom.

 

Even at older ages, I have put them to bed based on the time and whether I thought they were tired, while someone else would think they were not tired because of how active or awake they seemed. They'd be asleep with minutes.

 

I read a bunch of books and took stuff from each, but I do remember liking baby wise despite the controversary.

Yes, there's advice in there that's different and more specific than what I've come across. I'm glad I read it, but it's not balanced (hard to find a balanced book on most things anyways). But then my favorite baby book is Sleeping with Your Baby (a fascinating, researched approach to the topic). Lol

 

ETA: I have read a lot of baby books on breastfeeding and sleep. I feel each has contributed something valuable in my understanding and consideration of the subject.

 

Author of sleeping with your baby info:

 

"Professor James J. McKenna, Ph.D. is the Rev. Edmund P. Joyce CSC Chair in Anthropology and Chair of the Department of Anthropology at the University of Notre Dame. He also directs the Mother-Baby Behavioral Sleep Laboratory at the University. He has published extensively on infant sleep, breastfeeding, Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS), and the evolution of human behavior with special emphasis on the differences between the behavior and physiology of solitary and co-sleeping-breastfeeding mother-baby pairs. His interests include how cultural factors influence infant and childcare practices, which in turn, affect maternal-infant health and well-being. The National Institutes of Child Health and Human Development fund his research. Currently, he is involved in a multi-site USA national prospective project examining first-time teen moms throughout their pregnancies and throughout the first three years of their infants' lives. His articles have appeared in refereed periodicals and academic journals around the world, and he is considered one of the leading authorities on scientific studies of infant-parent co-sleeping and breastfeeding, especially bed-sharing, having been the first to study the practice."

 

https://www.amazon.com/Sleeping-Your-Baby-Parents-Cosleeping/dp/1930775342#

Edited January 10, 2017 by ifIonlyhadabrain

[Scarlett]

I read it back in the day (my kids are nearly grown and grown).

 

As a person who is easily able to distinguish information that works for me from what wouldn't work for me, I thought it was helpful. I didn't do every single thing it told me to do, but I still remember the information about getting your kids on a loose schedule as quickly as possible because everyone is happier well rested.

 

The order was Eat, Play, Sleep. Always that order (of course infants fall asleep faster).

 

But it worked. I had great sleepers from 5-6 weeks on. I followed a loose schedule, not a slavish one, dictated by the clock and not my common sense.

So that one piece of information for someone who had never been around babies at all worked for me.

Exactly my feelings on it. Eat, play sleep. Schedule. Loosely. It worked for me. I saw nothing abusive in the book. But earlier ones might have been.

[matrips]

Yes, there's advice in there that's different and more specific than what I've come across. I'm glad I read it, but it's not balanced (hard to find a balanced book on most things anyways). But then my favorite baby book is Sleeping with Your Baby (a fascinating, researched approach to the topic). Lol

 

Ah, but see. We all come from different places! I had no desire to co-sleep with my triplets :). I wanted my own bed/room for some downtime; I was perfectly happy to have them in their room down the hall.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

University of Notre Dame. He also directs the Mother-Baby Behavioral Sleep Laboratory at the University. He has published extensively on infant sleep, breastfeeding, Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS), and the evolution of human behavior with special emphasis on the differences between the behavior and physiology of solitary and co-sleeping-breastfeeding mother-baby pairs. His interests include how cultural factors influence infant and childcare practices, which in turn, affect maternal-infant health and well-being. The National Institutes of Child Health and Human Development fund his research. Currently, he is involved in a multi-site USA national prospective project examining first-time teen moms throughout their pregnancies and throughout the first three years of their infants' lives. His articles have appeared in refereed periodicals and academic journals around the world, and he is considered one of the leading authorities on scientific studies of infant-parent co-sleeping and breastfeeding, especially bed-sharing, having been the first to study the practice."

 

https://www.amazon.com/Sleeping-Your-Baby-Parents-Cosleeping/dp/1930775342#

[matrips]

Somehow the quote thing didn't work for me properly on my last post and my response ended up in the middle of ifionlyhadabrain Sorry!

[IfIOnly]

Somehow the quote thing didn't work for me properly on my last post and my response ended up in the middle of ifionlyhadabrain Sorry!

Honestly, I think the more regimented advice (as long as baby is not going hungry and is thriving) is better suited exactly for your situation. Multiples.

[Ellie]

www.ezzo.info

 

Yes, this one. Read it all.

[amsunshine]

You mean that all of you who breastfed didn't get to sleep most of the night until at least six months post partum? Or did you all start feeding food at 4 months? I used soy formula for all three kids and they were all sleeping through the night (basically 11 or 12 midnight to 6 am) by about six weeks. I also started food with them at four months, My reasons for not breastfeeding were health related (my health) but if you can't ever sleep more than three hours, I don't think I would want to breastfeed anyway. That sounds like a way to make sure you get sick- long term sleep deprivation. Do most breastfeeding moms really get up every three hours?

I'm sure it's different for everyone and also depends on what you mean by "sleeping through the night." My breastfed girls slept 6 hours per night at 6 weeks, 7 hrs at 7 wks and 8 hrs at 8 weeks. I loosely followed the baby whisperer method which has some similarities to ezzo but I'm not familiar enough with ezzo to really comment on that.

Edited January 10, 2017 by amsunshinetemp

[zyxwvut]

nm.

 

I might not know what I'm talking about.

[Janeway]

I was a new mom when the first edition of BW came out and dealt with the spiritually abusive advice from their religious baby and parenting classes. I did read their earlier materials and I wanted to gag with disgust and cry for moms and babies who were subjected to their advice. I don't care if newer editions are "better". I still would not want to give them a penny of my money because I believe they are dishonest and deceitful people who have very little training in anything relevant to raising children. The good in the books can be found elsewhere and the bad is just so harmful. They set things up as an either/or paradigm. ... either you do things our way or you will end up with a baby who controls their parents. Their goals are not developmentally or medically appropriate for most babies or mothers.

 

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

I agree with this. When a child abuser changes the book they wrote so they can sell more books, I am still not ok with their new and more marketable books. There are too many good books on child raising out there without reading ones written by known child abusers. I wouldn't care if their new books were wrapped on gold, I don't want their advice nor do I want to support them.

[abacus2]

A friend of mine recommended Babywise to me when I had my first child. It had a strongly negative effect on me and my daughter. It was very heavy handed that a 3 hour schedule was best for every baby and that if you didn't follow that with your child that they would turn into horrible, whiney, terrible toddlers because they got away with manipulating you. The text did acknowledge that if your baby was really truly hungry, you could feed them more often, but they probably didn't really need to feed more often. It was successful in getting me to doubt my instincts as a mother and attempt to force her onto an inappropriate schedule. My oldest was a very demanding nurser, which was sufficient to lead me to abandon scheduling altogether within a couple weeks. I went to visit my friend  in the hospital when her next kid was born. She was still following Babywise. I offered her her baby to nurse when she started rooting around giving obvious hunger signs. She rejected my offer, saying that she didn't need to nurse for another half an hour. I was pretty horrified. Now I can't imagine expecting a newborn to wait.

 

My children usually slept at least 6 hours at night by about 3 months, exclusively breastfed.

[momacacia]

I second The Baby Whispered recommendation. I've also seen more than one mom very committed to Babywide lose milk supply earlier than they would have liked. I've never read the book. I figure if well-known pastors feel the need to publicly address concerns about an author, they're probably not balanced enough for me. :)

[Scarlett]

My son is almost 17 so that is the edition I bought.....I don't know if I just tossed out unreasonable(to me) stuff like I do with everything I read or if it was different by then.  But I just don't remember anything horrible about it.  I mainly remember the order of eat play sleep.  It was helpful for me and my son began sleeping for 6 hours a night at 6 weeks.  Of course, maybe he would have anyway, who knows.  I never recommend it because of the way so many on this board feel about it. 

[Heathermomster]

Go with the Baby Whisperer....

[PeterPan]

In the church circles I run in, Ezzo was viewed very stringently. As in, you're a pagan secular humanist and sending your kids to H*LL if you don't follow it. It's so divisive in some church circles, I'm shocked people are still recommending it. 

 

Personally, it's a discussion I'd stay way out of. The only issue is failure to thrive, and usually what happens, when it causes problems, is it trashes the mother's milk supply and the kid ends up on a bottle. The mother is unlikely to let her dc actually starve, which means it's the loss of nursing, not loss of life. And I'm hugely pro-breastfeeding, but I'm at the point where I would just raise my eyebrows, say it's not what I would do, and move on. But that's because people who are into it are REALLY into it and put moral implications on it sometimes that are pretty astonishing. And if they're going to be that way, well that's a discussion I'd rather not have. Pass the bean dip and all that.

 

If this new mom puts enough stock in that person's advice that she's actually listening to them on Ezzo, she probably won't want to hear you slamming that friend or their opinion.

 

As far as finding the problems, just google failure to thrive and Ezzo and stuff will probably pop up.

 

If you want sort of a totally different way to balance out the input she's getting without criticizing the friend or the approaches, just get her another book. When my kids were little, Sears was the biggee. Haven't read Baby Whisperer. Really though, she can just read competing ideas in books and decide for herself. It's part of maturing as a mother.

[DawnM]

I read part of it but NONE of it worked for me.  First of all, I worked full time, so I was not the neat little SAHM they assumed would be reading their book.

 

Second of all, my oldest didn't sleep through the night until age 4, and even then, not always, and he is now turning 19 and still doesn't sleep through the night.   He has special needs and Ezzo methodology assumes all children are the same.

 

Google "Ezzos failure to thrive and dehydration"

 

I put them right up there with the Pearls.  Dangerous.

 

 

 

 

[Bluegoat]

In the church circles I run in, Ezzo was viewed very stringently. As in, you're a pagan secular humanist and sending your kids to H*LL if you don't follow it. It's so divisive in some church circles, I'm shocked people are still recommending it. 

 

Personally, it's a discussion I'd stay way out of. The only issue is failure to thrive, and usually what happens, when it causes problems, is it trashes the mother's milk supply and the kid ends up on a bottle. The mother is unlikely to let her dc actually starve, which means it's the loss of nursing, not loss of life. And I'm hugely pro-breastfeeding, but I'm at the point where I would just raise my eyebrows, say it's not what I would do, and move on. But that's because people who are into it are REALLY into it and put moral implications on it sometimes that are pretty astonishing. And if they're going to be that way, well that's a discussion I'd rather not have. Pass the bean dip and all that.

 

If this new mom puts enough stock in that person's advice that she's actually listening to them on Ezzo, she probably won't want to hear you slamming that friend or their opinion.

 

As far as finding the problems, just google failure to thrive and Ezzo and stuff will probably pop up.

 

If you want sort of a totally different way to balance out the input she's getting without criticizing the friend or the approaches, just get her another book. When my kids were little, Sears was the biggee. Haven't read Baby Whisperer. Really though, she can just read competing ideas in books and decide for herself. It's part of maturing as a mother.

 

 

I've really come to feel so negativly about Sears.  I'd almost like to give him a good kick in the shins.

 

I think its an issue with all of the parenting books, or with parents maybe, that parents will follow them too stringenly and cause problems.  I read Bringing up Bebe a while ago and I laughed when the French doctor told the author he didn't like to give schedules to American parents, because they take them too literally.  I've come to the conclusion though that if it happens a lot with some approaches, maybe its a real problem with the book or ideas behind it.

 

I used an AP/Sears approach with my elder kids, and I'm not a person who follows schedules well even when I think I should,  but I really feel now that I was kind of screwed over by some of his advice and that following it created problems.  And I've seen so, so many other parents who follow AP seem to be totally run ragged and dysfunctional, or crazy with worry and mistrust. 

 

I'd now avoid giving Sears for some of the same reasons I'd avoid giving Babywise.  Sears isn't personally dislikable or nasty, which is a difference, but I think following his methods can cause some issues, especially around sleep. 

[shawthorne44]

The Baby Whisperer books offer that kind of 'establish a rhythm' advice in a way that is more flexible.

 

You know, I think I was thinking of the Baby whisperer book, not the Ezzo.   I guess that explains my surprise that it was seen as repressive.  

[maize]

Yeah, any book that strongly espouses "one right way" to parent is suspect to me--I'm definitely a "give me lots of ideas and let me figure out what works best for me and my kid" person.

 

Maybe I can write a book with lots of different approaches and ideas and many reminders to listen to your gut and do what works best to take care of both your child and yourself.

Edited January 10, 2017 by maize

[Scarlett]

Yeah, any book that strongly espouses "one right way" to parent is suspect to me--I'm definitely a "give me lots of ideas and let me figure out what works best for me and my kid" person.

 

Maybe I can write a book with lots of different approaches and ideas and many reminders to listen to your gut and do what works best to take care of both your child and yourself.

 

Yes!  This is me.  I rarely have listened to any one source.  I think it is why I get in so much trouble on the boards when I post a question for opinions and then dismiss some or all of them.  I mean, just because I ask for your opinion or read your book doesn't mean it is going to work for me.

[Incognito]

Yeah, any book that strongly espouses "one right way" to parent is suspect to me--I'm definitely a "give me lots of ideas and let me figure out what works best for me and my kid" person.

 

Maybe I can write a book with lots of different approaches and ideas and many reminders to listen to your gut and do what works best to take care of both your child and yourself.

 

I read a TON of parenting books back in the day - they ALL say they are THE RIGHT WAY (and most put in digs about the other methods as well).  

 

The problem with any method that has any sort of structure in it is when people take it to an extreme.  Just like if someone reads the WTM and feels they have to do the exact charts/everything.  Just like SWB says NOT to do.  

 

My favorite parenting book was a mock anthropological study of various groups and how they raised infants.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Incognito

[poppy]

In the church circles I run in, Ezzo was viewed very stringently. As in, you're a pagan secular humanist and sending your kids to H*LL if you don't follow it. It's so divisive in some church circles, I'm shocked people are still recommending it. 

 

Personally, it's a discussion I'd stay way out of. The only issue is failure to thrive, and usually what happens, when it causes problems, is it trashes the mother's milk supply and the kid ends up on a bottle. The mother is unlikely to let her dc actually starve, which means it's the loss of nursing, not loss of life. And I'm hugely pro-breastfeeding, but I'm at the point where I would just raise my eyebrows, say it's not what I would do, and move on. But that's because people who are into it are REALLY into it and put moral implications on it sometimes that are pretty astonishing. And if they're going to be that way, well that's a discussion I'd rather not have. Pass the bean dip and all that.

 

If this new mom puts enough stock in that person's advice that she's actually listening to them on Ezzo, she probably won't want to hear you slamming that friend or their opinion.

 

As far as finding the problems, just google failure to thrive and Ezzo and stuff will probably pop up.

 

If you want sort of a totally different way to balance out the input she's getting without criticizing the friend or the approaches, just get her another book. When my kids were little, Sears was the biggee. Haven't read Baby Whisperer. Really though, she can just read competing ideas in books and decide for herself. It's part of maturing as a mother.

 

I can't buy "it only trashes her milk supply and is very unlikely to kill the child" is a good reason to stay quiet!!

I'd probably not trash it, so much as offer alternatives and support. When I was a new parent I was so eager for input.   Give experienced advice, OP.

The more good advice she gets the more likely it is to drown out the bad advice.

 

 

As an aside, I live in New England, where "pagan secular humanist" is not an insult, and is how some people cheerfully and unironically describe themselves.     It wasn't until I came to this board that I learned how conservative Protestants tend to be very authoritarian parents which is tied into theology.  We have plenty of "by choice" bottle feeding / sleep schedule families  here, too, but, it's not a MORAL issue in that same way....   I had no idea and it is really interesting.

[bethben]

I did use that book for learning how to put a baby on a schedule with two of my children.  I thought it worked great for my two boys.  I didn't follow it religiously though and if they were obviously hungry before the scheduled time, I would feed them and adjust.  By ds #3, I let him make the schedule as a newborn and just adjusted it to give him a daily schedule.  I'm a type A personality and a baby schedule brought sanity to my life.  My oldest also had special needs and it was helpful to have babies where for the most part, I would know nap times and general feeding times so that I wasn't having to nurse a baby during a therapy appointment.  I could make appointments when younger brother was fed and happy (for the most part).

 

That being said, there is a "spirit" behind these books that proclaims if the mother doesn't do xyz, then their child will rule their world and grow up to be a bratty kid who is spoiled (I can't remember the actual wording, but there is some strong wording with it).  The people who get in trouble with these books are those who take everything they say to an extreme and don't know how to take some good advice and leave out the "your child will be ruined if you don't follow our path" renderings.  My take away with the book was the simple schedule stuff that did really help.  The rest I was able to ignore.  

[Lady Florida.]

 

 

Second of all, my oldest didn't sleep through the night until age 4, and even then, not always, and he is now turning 19 and still doesn't sleep through the night.   He has special needs and Ezzo methodology assumes all children are the same.

 

 

 

Sounds like my 19 yo. I never read Ezzo, but we had a pediatrician who tried to get me to put him on a very strict feeding schedule (his exact words were "It's good for them to go hungry sometimes) and use the cry-it-out method at night. We left that practice rather quickly.

 

Anyway, later when he was diagnosed with ADHD we learned that it's common for people with it to have trouble sleeping. ADHD is present from birth, you just usually don't know it. Most likely his sleep issues even as an infant were related to his condition. I can't imagine how awful it would have been for him if I had followed that doctor's advice.

[TranquilMind]

Exactly my feelings on it. Eat, play sleep. Schedule. Loosely. It worked for me. I saw nothing abusive in the book. But earlier ones might have been.

That's really all I remember about this book after 20 years:  Eat, play, sleep.  And I'd recommend following that anytime, loosely, of course, and with some common sense!