Scout camper "issues"? Need a sanity check.

[mommyoffive]

Wow.  I am upset for you.

 

Keep us posted.  

 

Yeah for them to say you have to get both girls?  What?

 

 

[NorthwestMom]

Ugh. I am really sorry for your DD.

 

:thumbdown: to the camp management

[Seasider]

What kinds of people are running that camp? I've been a camper at both Scout & church camps. I've been a counselor at both Scout and Church camps. My kids have been to camps. I've never heard of anything like you're experiencing!

 

I'm with alisoncooks on this - something else must be going on. A personality clash between your child and the camp leadership, perhaps? Because none of what they claim your dd did would ever make me think "Send this kid home!!"

You've mentioned before your girls do AHG - is this an AHG camp?

[MegP]

That makes no sense at all. I don't understand why they are sending her home???

[Liz CA]

Well, it's official.  My kid has been kicked out for not eating and drinking as much as they think she should.  They say she's taking up too many resources.  I'm to please come get her NOW, they can't wait until the work day is over.

 

They said come and get both girls.  I reacted a bit strongly to that:  "BOTH girls, WHY?!"  (I've heard not one word about my other kid other than she's doing the activties.)  Then they said, OK, if the other one is willing to stay, she can.

 

Scouts has been an education for me, that's for sure.  So this week I learned something new.  I'm truly shocked that my kid's drinking, eating, and sleeping style have gotten her expelled from a supposedly age-appropriate activity.  Just shows how ignorant I am, I guess.

 

My kids are pretty tough cookies, I might add.  They have been around the world, literally.  They've had plenty of late nights and hot, rigorous days.  They've been away from me a number of nights, as many as 10 consecutive.  I'm pretty surprised is all I can say.

 

Hope you get a refund.

[luuknam]

It's odd to me that they're worried about having to take her to the hospital in the middle of the night for dehydration, yet they're only talking about her not wanting to drink the insane amount they want her to drink, and not mentioning any actual symptoms of dehydration. If she's not showing any actual symptoms of dehydration, it's virtually impossible she'd have to go to the hospital just a few hours later (maybe if she started throwing up and having diarrhea).

 

FWIW, my almost 9yo has gone to a YMCA camp 3 summers and 1 winter so far. The first summer he was almost 7 and it was only 4 nights, but last summer and this summer were 6 nights (winter is only 2 nights), and the camp has been awesome. He says bedtime is 9 for younger kids (like him) and 9:45 for older kids.

[SparklyUnicorn]

read your update

 

That sounds really crappy. 

 

 

[Joules]

GS camp was a nightmare for me, pretty much for all of the reasons mentioned, but the sleep was number one.  I was usually in bed by 8 or 9 each night.  Staying up until 11 was unreasonable, particularly after full days of activities.  I got the fact that I couldn't go to the cabins alone, but I asked if I could just rest on the picnic bench with the group, and that was unacceptable.  Then I started dozing off in evening activities and got yelled at every time.  They never called my parents, even when I was injured and they dropped me at the ER where I ended up spending the night going through a whole battery of tests alone.

 

Needless to say, ds never went to camp.

[bolt.]

I think it's pretty clear that a child too ill-plus-uncooperative to be able (or wiling) leave her bed during times when the group is not in bed needs to be picked up. It's pure logistics. She can't be left alone, she can't or won't participate with the group, and no matter what you paid, you didn't pay for 2 staff members to individually care for her for hours.

 

She stopped drinking because she didn't want to drink -- she may have been right (too much water required) or she might have been wrong (becoming dehydrated, contributing to heatstroke). Either way, she then told the staff she felt ill, skipped a meal due to illness, and insisted on using her sleeping bag for bug protection in a hot cabin despite the fact that a *nurse* believed she was already overheated.

 

I assume they have ways to help kids through minor illnesses if they co-operate (try to cool off, try to drink). Even if the child does not actually have Whatever they think she has, co-operation is not too much to expect. If there is no co-operation, it's obvious that they need to call a parent. What other options are there?

[Seasider]

It's odd to me that they're worried about having to take her to the hospital in the middle of the night for dehydration, yet they're only talking about her not wanting to drink the insane amount they want her to drink, and not mentioning any actual symptoms of dehydration. If she's not showing any actual symptoms of dehydration, it's virtually impossible she'd have to go to the hospital just a few hours later (maybe if she started throwing up and having diarrhea).

.

This is what makes me think that instead of actual trained/experienced outdoor CAMP counselors, these leaders are actually helicopter moms attending with their own kids (and not very patient with other peoples' children).

[SKL]

That's pretty nuts, SKL. Is this actually a Girl Scouts of America camp or is it American Heritage Girls? The rules are probably different, but some of this sounds off for an actual GSA camp.

 

It's AHG and the camp itself might be officially run by a separate organization.

[LucyStoner]

Wait a minute here...the kids are not allowed to go to sleep until 11 pm? I would bring her home for that stupid rule alone. Idiotic! :mad:

My son would rapidly demonstrate that "allowed" or not, he would pass out sometime before 10 and would be wholly unrousable until the morning. Rule or no rule. There are some things you just can't control.

[Terabith]

Any more info on the insanity?

[SKL]

OK so here's the deal after going there and talking to multiple people including both of my kids.

 

Everything was fine from Sunday afternoon through mid-Tuesday.  On Tuesday it was hot so they asked the kids to drink 8 ounces of water PER HOUR all day (so said a leader - she explained that was because *some* of the girls [not mine] were going on an overnight and they didn't want anyone to get dehydrated over night.)  My daughter said that in addition to being chased all day to drink from their water bottles, at every meal, they placed TWO full water bottles in front of each girl and made a loud screaming announcement that every girl was to empty BOTH water bottles by the end of the meal.  My daughter complied until her stomach could not take any more, and then she went to sipping what she could.  Every time she complained that she wasn't feeling well, they told her to drink more water, so she did.  Her upset stomach prevented her from eating Tuesday dinner and Wednesday breakfast.  Hence they sent her home.

 

While I was there waiting to pick up my kid, I saw girls freely going from place to place.  Most weren't with leaders, let alone 2 deep leaders.  They were allowed to sit around relaxing if they didn't have something else to do.

 

I also learned that last evening, there was a hike but it was optional.  3 of the girls in my kid's cabin opted to stay in the cabin.  So it wasn't like she was demanding two people to drop whatever they were doing so she could go someplace other girls weren't going.  She said she was not hot at all, so she covered herself with her sleeping bag.  She said the cabin lady told her she shouldn't cover up because she was hot, but she said she was not hot, she was fine.  At that point she was dragged to the nurse's office.  I should note that my kid had never said she was hot in the first place.  The nurse said everyone was hot.  I'm sure everyone was, but my kid wasn't any hotter than anyone else, and it was cooling down in the evening.  Maybe the nurse just assumed that because she herself was hot, my kid must be hot too.

 

This morning my kid did decline to do one activity because she didn't feel well, but she did happily go to canoeing, which is where she was when I arrived at the camp.  Walking back she was carrying - you guessed it - a glass of water.  (None of the other girls were.)  She offered the water to me when she saw me.  She did say she had cried at times and said she missed her mom.  Every time she did so, they told her to drink more water and she would feel better.  To my knowledge there were no symptoms of dehydration whatsoever.  She did have a whole cluster of new bug bites though, on her ankle, from the bugs that do not exist in the cabin.  :P

 

OK so I think these people are woefully miseducated when it comes to hydration.  My kid got sick from the water and then they would not let it work itself out (as I had suggested yesterday) but kept piling it on worse.  For her part, she initially complied too well vs pacing herself, and then didn't know to gradually even it out with eating.  After a point, she couldn't eat because she wasn't allowed to take a break from drinking.  She also did want to come home because she felt uncomfortable with the cabin lady who, in my kid's words, was "obsessed" with her body heat, and was only able to sleep from 11pm to 6am, and was being eaten by bugs, and couldn't resolve her queasy stomach.  The sleeping bag incident was just plain ridiculous.

 

My other kid is doing fine.  Well, everyone is different.  :)  For one thing, bug bites don't bother her, she is more active (probably sweating out the water faster), loves the camp food, and is much more social.  She has a tougher constitution also.  So she should be fine finishing the week.

 

They did give me back the horse riding money before I even asked about it.  So that is one less thing to worry about.

 

My "sick" kid was of course a new person within 5 minutes after leaving the camp.  We stopped and got a salty snack to eat on the way home (and she had no problem eating it).  She's very happy to be home.  She has a list of work to do while I get caught up on my work.  :)

[Terabith]

Wow.  That's ridiculous.  I mean, hydration is important, but that's crazy.  And micromanaging about body heat???  Good grief! 

 

 

[MinivanMom]

I can't believe they kicked her out of camp.

 

I will say that I've encountered the heat obsession thing at camps in the past (both as a camper & as a counselor). There are some people who just can't sleep if they are hot, and they are certain that everybody else is exactly the same way. I'm the opposite; I get chilled at night and can't sleep at all if I'm cold. Even camping in summer heat & humidity, I have to be wrapped up in a blanket or sleeping bag. But for some reason, hot folks are always the loudest voices in camp and want to monitor the temps in the cabins and the sleeping arrangements of the girls. Drove me batty! I used to nod and smile until Helicopter Leader left, and then tell the girls in my cabin to sleep however they were comfortable. Seriously, if they are hot at night, they will kick those blankets off themselves.

 

The water thing is much more concerning. There is some serious (and possibly dangerous) ignorance going on there regarding hydration. I don't know what your options are for getting a refund or trying to get the water situation corrected, but I would definitely be sending written complaints up the chain of authority. I wouldn't say anything about the late nights or the bugs; I would just address the dangerous water rules.

[bolt.]

Your DD was right. That was way too much water, and I bet no one was complying with it, she was just one of the few trying to comply (on the one hand) and also making it obvious that she was not well (on the other hand).

 

Queasiness / lack of appetite is a symptom of heat stroke (common at camp), and so is sleepiness -- so it was a reasonably legit concluIon to jump to. It seems it's also a symptom of over hydration, but that's really uncommon, I imagine, so not as easy to assess.

 

Cabin lady was not a nurse. A nurse would have checked body temperature with a thermometer, not her own presumptions. But if I did have a kid with an actual high body temp (with or without a sensation of feeling it) I would not have allowed the sleeping bag.

 

Mistakes were made. Not all queasiness if fixed by continuos hydration because not all queasiness is heat stroke. It's a fair first guess, given the environment -- but if it doesn't fade with some water and body cooling, it's not heat stroke related queasiness, and you need to stop treating it like it is.

Edited July 13, 2016 by bolt.

[SKL]

Just to be clear, I am not complaining about the bugs.  I expect bugs at camp.  They do bother my kid, and are a source of worry for her.  That's more of an information thing.  Everyone has their thing they don't like, and it seems the camp people might like to know that's a reason behind some behaviors.

 

The late nights, I find surprising but not something to "complain" about.  Again, it just explains why some girls aren't very comfortable.  I could understand one or two late nights, but I think 11pm-6am for a whole week is an odd sleep schedule for a camp at this age level.  Seems that everyone would be more happy, productive, and cooperative on decent sleep.  But maybe I'm just silly.

[mommyoffive]

You are not silly.  Heck those late nights would make me tired.  One night I could see maybe but not the whole week.

 

This whole thing is nuts.  I could see how she wouldn't feel good if she was made to guzzle that much water.  I understand they want to keep kids hydrated, it is important, especially when they are outside in the heat.  But this forcing of it and the sleeping bag or so overboard.  

I love having heavy blankets on me as a source of comfort all through summer.  

[SKL]

Yeah, I am wondering what I should do about the water thing.  I don't want to tick anyone off but I think they need to be re-educated.

 

I did talk to my kid about what to do if in that situation again.  I am no expert, but I think I will google it before their next sleepover camp.  I figure if they can articulate why they don't want to drink more water right now, and what they want to do instead, it would go over better.  :)

[elegantlion]

The water micromanaging is insane, sorry that happened. Geez, I would have been glad to have been kicked out. 

 

 

My son would rapidly demonstrate that "allowed" or not, he would pass out sometime before 10 and would be wholly unrousable until the morning. Rule or no rule. There are some things you just can't control.

 

That would have been me as a kid. 10pm and I just shut down, didn't matter where we were. I could fall asleep anywhere. 

[SKL]

One more thing that struck me funny.  One of the leaders said that my kid was quiet and not willing to engage with the kids as much as others, but she was more interested in doing competitions with the adults.  I asked my kid what that was about, but she had no idea.  Maybe she rubbed some people the wrong way ....

[Terabith]

Guessing this camp isn't ACA accredited....

[38carrots]

I understand you are a working mom and you relied on the camp to provide the childcare (which is mostly what camps are for), but I don't get you not *wanting* to take your 9 year old out of a camp that is clearly disfunctional and arguing that that they should have kept your little girl, despite her obvious discomfort with adults there (major red flag). You have a long and justifiable list of issues in that camp, you still left your other kid there, even if you seem to be able to occupy your kids safely at home? I'm sorry, but I don't get it.

[MercyA]

Oh, man, if I had to drink that much water I would literally have to pee every 15 minutes. Ridiculous! 

 

Sorry, SKL, but glad your daughter is home with you now.

[MercyA]

GS camp was a nightmare for me, pretty much for all of the reasons mentioned, but the sleep was number one.  I was usually in bed by 8 or 9 each night.  Staying up until 11 was unreasonable, particularly after full days of activities.  I got the fact that I couldn't go to the cabins alone, but I asked if I could just rest on the picnic bench with the group, and that was unacceptable.  Then I started dozing off in evening activities and got yelled at every time.  They never called my parents, even when I was injured and they dropped me at the ER where I ended up spending the night going through a whole battery of tests alone.

 

Needless to say, ds never went to camp.

 

That is horrible.  :(

[raptor_dad]

Yeah, I am wondering what I should do about the water thing.  I don't want to tick anyone off but I think they need to be re-educated.

 

 

I think the water thing is a huge safety issue. If they expect the kids to drink 8ozs/hr from 6am-11pm, thats 17 cups/day... double the anecdotal recommendation for adults and presumably more for smaller kids.

 

Hyponatremia[1], low sodium from excess water intake, is a real health risk. On par with dehydration. Lets look at the wiki list of symptoms:

 

 

 

Signs and symptoms of hyponatremia include nausea and vomiting, headache, short-term memory loss, confusion, lethargy, fatigue, loss of appetite, irritability, muscle weakness, spasms or cramps, seizures, and decreased consciousness or coma.

 

It sounds like your DD could have had the bolded ones. She probably wasn't in any real danger, however the water thing was probably a serious factor for all their other complaints.

 

DW runs ultras and works a lot of aid stations. She sees plenty of folks who DNF for being dehydrated but also sees plenty of folks who shamble in like zombies and perk up after drinking some broth or eating some food and giving their body a few minutes to regulate blood electrolytes,

 

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyponatremia

 

ETA: Despite their questionable competence all around... calling you and sending her home was probably an OK choice. The cases where otherwise healthy kids/young adult die of either dehydration or hyponatremia is when clueless wilderness programs ignore lethargic kids and let them "sleep it off". If the staff didn't feel willing or able to monitor the situation then sending her home was the least worst option. It is outrageous a camp like this couldn't handle this sort of routine issue; but once you're there, I suppose excessive concern might be better than gross negligence.

Edited July 13, 2016 by raptor_dad

[hornblower]

I think one of the take aways from this is to ask in advance what the daily schedule is, when is lights out & when the kids are being woken up and make sure that it's a schedule the camper can follow. 

My kids could have easily stayed up till 11. They'd not have enjoyed getting up at 6 at all....

[hornblower]

I'm wondering how large were the water bottles and the cups that they were expected to drink? 

[SKL]

I understand you are a working mom and you relied on the camp to provide the childcare (which is mostly what camps are for), but I don't get you not *wanting* to take your 9 year old out of a camp that is clearly disfunctional and arguing that that they should have kept your little girl, despite her obvious discomfort with adults there (major red flag). You have a long and justifiable list of issues in that camp, you still left your other kid there, even if you seem to be able to occupy your kids safely at home? I'm sorry, but I don't get it.

 

You're entitled to your opinion.  My choices are based on knowing my kids and on the fact that the other lady in their cabin is our scout leader, whom I trust.  (Last night our scout leader was out on a hike with the other kids when the whole sleeping bag debacle was happening.)  I didn't know my kid was uncomfortable with anyone until we were driving home.

 

I am that kind of mom who allows kids to experience things that aren't completely ideal, so they can discover their own inner strength.  Most of the time that works out well.  Even this time, my expelled kid learned some life lessons.

 

I would have been happier if her tummy issue had resolved and she'd gotten engaged and stuck with the camp.  She would have learned more.  She was never in real danger IMO.

[vonfirmath]

We are in Texas. My son has been in an outside day camp this week and I already knew he has a hard time getting enough fluids when he's having fun.  So we sent him with a moderate size water bottle. (shorter and squatter. Not sure how much water is in it) and asked him to try to drink the whole thing before lunch and then refill to work on again afterwards (Daycamp day is over at 3p. So the afternoon is shorter).   They also have a snack of a popsicle while there and evidently some gatorade like thing at another snack time?  So far this week he has not had the stomach aches he got last week (when I'm pretty certain he was not drinking enough. He took a 12 oz water bottle and came home not even finished drinking it once after a 7:30-5p length of day. OTOH they spent more of the time inside in A/C then too.)

 

[Dmmetler]

FWIW, my 11 yr old did a sleep away program on a college campus, and lights out was 8:30 PM because they had to be up and on their way to breakfast in the dorm by 6:30 (they wanted the youngest kids done in the cafeteria before the high school kids who's classes start at 9:00 were likely to be there to avoid congestion (and the elementary age ones being run over). They were also on the high desert, and while the kids were encouraged to keep their water bottles with them and drink frequently, no one sat over them-just had set times built in for drinks and snacks, and snacks often had a salty component to them, especially if they were doing something outside.

 

Now hat wearing and sunscreen reapplication were actively enforced, at least for my pale skinned DD.

[raptor_dad]

Our troop's typically 11+ Boy Scout camp has First Call Wake-Up at 7:30 and Call to Quarters at 10:30... so that would be 2 solid hours more sleep than your camp. That's in MN, so sunset is after 9:00 and all the delays for camp fires and such darkness dependent activities... 9 hrs of sleep for 11yos seems fine for a week or two. 7hrs for 9yos seems completely developmentally inappropriate. 

[J&JMom]

I got back a 2 weeks ago from a Boy Scout camp with 14 boys aged 10-14 including my 10 and 13-year-old sons.  We encouraged water at every opportunity, but didn't record or police intake.Same with sunscreen. One boy threw up mid week and rested for a couple of hours in his tent with a leader (another troop camped in our site with another adult present) and then went back to it.  The next night two boys wanted to skip a campfire and evening program so I sat with them in the campsite as they slept while the other leader took the remaining boys. 5 boys wanted to skip a special sleepover (hike and sleep on a nearby hill to watch the sunrise the next morning) so the other campsite troop "adopted" them for the evening while myself, our other leader and 9 boys climbed the hill at 11 pm at night.  Some of the boys decided to skip a merit badge class or two and do their own thing. Adults did not pester them to go to classes or do the work - it is the Scout's responsibility. As far as sleeping quarters - several slept the week in hammocks, and everyone was 'under the stars' on hill overnighter. No worries anywhere.  The boys can only do what they can do. My job to make sure they got up in time for breakfast (actually, ensure the SPL (senior patrol leader) woke up the Scouts along with cleaning and kitchen details), were registered and credited for their coursework, kept quiet at night, and reported any illness or injuries to camp staff.  Done.  ETA - lights out was at 10:30pm with wake up at 6:30. There was non-stop activities and classes scheduled up to 10pm. 

Edited July 13, 2016 by J&JMom

[scoutingmom]

Our troop's typically 11+ Boy Scout camp has First Call Wake-Up at 7:30 and Call to Quarters at 10:30... so that would be 2 solid hours more sleep than your camp. That's in MN, so sunset is after 9:00 and all the delays for camp fires and such darkness dependent activities... 9 hrs of sleep for 11yos seems fine for a week or two. 7hrs for 9yos seems completely developmentally inappropriate.

Manypoint? That is where my 2 oldef kids are going...

 

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

[mamiof5]

Ughhh!!!! I don't say bad words, but unfortunately I do think them, at certain times. Reading your OP and updates brought some not very nice words to mind. My girls do AHG, and we love it, but this is ABSURD!!! I'm so sorry for your dd.

 

I'm not a quiet person, specially when it comes to things like this. I type a LONG, detailed e-mail, and send it to everyone and their mom. For other kids, for other camps, I WOULD THROW A FIT.

 

I'm no doctor, or nurse...but who in the right mind would force someone to drink water?? Yes, I totally understand the need for it (we live in the desert), we encourage, remind our kids to drink, but push like that? No way.

 

The sleeping bag deal makes my blood boil. One of my dds is warm blooded, rarely ever gets cold. The other one is the TOTAL opposite, gets cold all the time. They both share a room, depending on the time of the year they both have to take their own measures so BOTH can be comfortable. Who are they to ask her to not go in her sleeping bag?

 

Your other dd. If it was me, I would have brought her home. Partly because of the folks and the situation, but mainly because of the fact they even dared to ask you to take her back and you had to say no. I'd have taken them both.

 

If I was you, not only I'd demand a full refund for her camp. And not only that, I would notify troop leader and AHG directly (president, vice-president etc...who ever runs the organization). This was just NOT ok. Learning experience or not for your dd it's still not ok. I'm mad for her unfortunate camping experience :(

[LucyStoner]

To be very clear though, this isn't Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts, correct? As I understand it, it's American Heritage Girls, likely using a rented camp facility. So the thread title is potentially confusing. This sort of stuff is definitely not the norm for any Girl Scout or Boy Scout camp which I am aware of.

 

I would urge you to take up the policies with AHG. They need to change them or switch camp venues. Forcing water is a liability issue for them, they should be willing to ensure this doesn't happen again. If not, in your shoes I would be buh bye AHG camp.

[SKL]

I don't plan to seek a refund.

 

I think that since our troop leader was there (at least for the water part), and she has always seemed pretty sensible, she is probably the right person to provide feedback regarding the hydration protocol.

 

I might ask her about it at a later time.  I don't want to stir the pot while she's in the middle of things.

[chiguirre]

I'm sorry it went badly SKL. It sounds like this is a parent volunteer run camp and the quality of those can vary. Having been the parent volunteer, I can say that most people do their best but this isn't their day job. If you want your girls to go to a better camp next year look for an American Camp Association accredited camp. I know that our GSA council camps and the YMCA camps are ACA accredited. They're not perfect but the people who run them do this as a summer job (usually they're teachers) and are professionals with a lot of experience running summer camps.

[Jyhwkmama]

I would notify AHG. I can't even imagine how sick I would feel being asked to drink 2 bottles of water with a meal. Plus, it seems like there was immense pressure to drink water past physical comfort level. It is actually possible to die from over hydration. Just google Hold Your Wee for Wii.

[Spryte]

I'm sorry it went badly SKL. It sounds like this is a parent volunteer run camp and the quality of those can vary. Having been the parent volunteer, I can say that most people do their best but this isn't their day job. If you want your girls to go to a better camp next year look for an American Camp Association accredited camp. I know that our GSA council camps and the YMCA camps are ACA accredited. They're not perfect but the people who run them do this as a summer job (usually they're teachers) and are professionals with a lot of experience running summer camps.

Yes. This is great advice. DSS attended the same camp I did, as a kid. Amazing place. Then he went to a poorly run Boy Scout camp - and it was a nightmare. Similar issues, and we had to go get him. It's sometimes all about the camp and the workers.

[fairfarmhand]

What the???

 

Do these people even like kids?

 

What happened to common sense? This is ridiculous!

[luuknam]

9yos need 10-11 hours of sleep per night (on average - of course there are 9yos who are fine with less or ones who need more):

 

http://www.webmd.com/parenting/guide/sleep-children?page=2

 

Also, a camp full of activities can make kids more tired than usual. My 5.5yo normally is just fine with 10-11 hours of sleep, and when he did day camp earlier this summer, he was unhappy on Wednesday morning (after a normal night's sleep - not sure of exact hours), saying he was too tired to go to camp, and on Thursday morning he had a complete meltdown complaining he was too tired to go to camp (after 11 hours of sleep). On Friday he was fine because I let him sleep late and drove him to camp late (partially because I had to pick up my wife from the airport so I couldn't send him to bed earlier).

[raptor_dad]

Manypoint? That is where my 2 oldef kids are going...

 

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 Many Point and Tomahawk and the other Northern Star Council camps are great, I know a number of folks who work there. But our troop runs its own 2 week summer camp on its own property for various historical reasons. They follow the same rough timetable and formats as the Council camps.

[ScoutTN]

I am so sorry camp was such a bad experience for you and your Dd, SKL! I am glad you brought her home. All AHG camps are not like that! Ours is good, but I would agree with people who commented about the difference between parent/volunteer run camps and professional/ ACA camps.

 

One good half-n-half deal that some troops do is to go as a group to a "real" camp. So the camp people make the rules and the basic schedule and oversee all the camp-ish activities and the high adventure stuff, while AHG leaders teach badgework etc. My denomination's camp in NC does this for AHG and TL troops and it works well. 

 

When the dust has settled, I would definitely speak to your troop coordinator and/or the board and I would write to AHG national. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Reefgazer]

Well, I'm a little late to this party, but I would say you're lucky she got expelled from camp. A kid can't go to bed until 11? Must drink copious quantities of water? can't wrap themselves in a sleeping bag? screw that.

Edited July 14, 2016 by reefgazer

[Alessandra]

I can't fathom what is going on. But I would want my kids out of there fast.

 

My dd has been yo three Girl Scout camps, one day and two sleep away. This is her third year at current sleep away. For all the camps, the staffs have been wonderful, both with typical and with special needs girls. One camper there last summer was recovering from chemo. The staff has a meeting before each session to discuss any special needs of incoming campers. Just saying this for perspective.

 

Is your camp really GSUSA? If it is, then there is a chain of command -- from Council to national-- to complain to. But it sounds so completely different from GS camps that I am familiar with. Most states also license camps, so another place to complain. The camp sounds evil.

 

ETA

I hadn't read all the posts before posting. I'm glad it is not a GS camp!

Edited July 14, 2016 by Alessandra

[Reefgazer]

You could teach her to dump it on the ground behind their back. 😊

Yeah, I am wondering what I should do about the water thing. I don't want to tick anyone off but I think they need to be re-educated.

 

I did talk to my kid about what to do if in that situation again. I am no expert, but I think I will google it before their next sleepover camp. I figure if they can articulate why they don't want to drink more water right now, and what they want to do instead, it would go over better. :)

[billswife]

I've been to a regional AHG camp with my girls as a helper. They did push drinking water because it was hot. They did not do it to the degree these people are doing it. Who could drink 2 big cups of water with each meal?! I couldn't. My daughter got sick at camp and I spent most of the time dealing with her. They never asked me to take her home and were very accommodating. The one thing that drove me nuts about the camp was that the girls couldn't go anywhere without a buddy. It really interfered with the activities. One of my daughters missed the entire free time because she was forced to go with some random girl she didn't know to her tent.

 

I think that--at least in our area--the people in charge of these camps are not prepared to run this sort of thing. I haven't sent my girls again because of the EPIC disorganization and all around craziness that has been displayed among the leaders running it.

[MistyMountain]

I would complain about the water, the sleep schedule and not being able to use a blanket. I would also write a letter to the national group so they can be aware of what went on too and have them make changes. That is over hydrating the girls and they are not getting proper rest and experiencing some sleep deprivation. It is not cool what they did and they need to hear about it so they can make changes in the future.

Edited July 15, 2016 by MistyMountain