Scout camper "issues"? Need a sanity check.

[SKL]

You could teach her to dump it on the ground behind their back. 😊

 

After asking my kid how others are handling the drinking requirement, she tells me that's what they are doing.  My youngest didn't want to do it because she was afraid she'd get in trouble.  :/

 

[SKL]

Yeah, as I calm down and begin to think clearly, I think it is appropriate for me to notify someone that they are using an unsafe practice on the girls.

 

So now I am wondering, who is actually responsible for this policy?  The camp owners or AHG?  I guess I should notify both.

 

I am pretty sure my youngest will not return to this camp until she is at least a couple years older.  My oldest can go back if she wants to, but I think more likely we will skip a year at least.

 

And, good point whoever commented about ACA accreditation.  I looked on their website and could not find evidence of same.  My kids have gone to other camps and loved them.  I never heard of them being anything but comfortable and engaged.  I'm thinking better education is part of that.

[SKL]

FWIW I think blanket lady was a mom of another kid in my girls' cabin.  That said, I don't know that I can exactly complain about that, other than the fact that it led to a call from the nurse.  But then, what was the nurse supposed to do with this lady jumping all over her?  I wasn't there so I don't know exactly how it all went down.

 

I have a few thoughts and vibes about blanket lady and her biases, but really I don't know anything about that because I wasn't there.  So I guess really the blanket issue is a non-issue from the perspective of what I should report up the chain.

 

I do agree the girls should have been able to sleep more.  I might be in the minority on that though.  Is it a safety issue?  Not really for 5 nights IMO.

[luuknam]

So now I am wondering, who is actually responsible for this policy?  The camp owners or AHG?  I guess I should notify both.

 

 

I am pretty sure my youngest will not return to this camp until she is at least a couple years older.  My oldest can go back if she wants to, but I think more likely we will skip a year at least.

 

Yes, notify both. Also, I don't see why you'd send your kids back ever again - it's not like it's the only camp near you.

 

FWIW I think blanket lady was a mom of another kid in my girls' cabin.  That said, I don't know that I can exactly complain about that, other than the fact that it led to a call from the nurse.  But then, what was the nurse supposed to do with this lady jumping all over her?

 

I do agree the girls should have been able to sleep more.  I might be in the minority on that though.  Is it a safety issue?  Not really for 5 nights IMO.

 

The nurse should've been able to tell the mom that it's okay for kids to use blankets however they want. Sorry, but imo nurses should have at least a little bit of assertiveness and not be easily intimidated by people.

 

Sleep deprivation is a safety issue - people make a lot more mistakes while tired. If the kids were getting at most 7 hours of 5 nights in a row, the adults were certainly not getting more, and quite probably less (on average). Now, adults only need 7-8 hours, but if you need 8 hours and you're getting, say, 6 hours, that will add up over the course of a few days, which is not good when you're supervision a bunch of 9yo kids in activities like canoeing, swimming, horse riding, and who knows what else.

 

ETA: maybe you handle mild sleep deprivation well and/or need little sleep, but I know that if I got less than 7 hours a few nights in a row I'd be making more mistakes.

Edited July 14, 2016 by luuknam

[SKL]

I don't see why you'd send your kids back ever again - it's not like it's the only camp near you.

 

I like the idea of a scout camp where they can do stuff relevant to their progress in the scout program.  But yes, there were other great camps I bypassed for this one.

 

When I went there mid-week, it did seem like many kids were doing fine.  My other 9yo included.  So I'm not sure I'm ready to write it off forever.  Like maybe when they get to the next level (at age 12), they could go there and get a bunch of outdoor badges done.

 

It would be nice to get some honest feedback from other parents, just to see if my experience is unique or not, but I don't know how I'd do that.

 

[Shellydon]

Having worked at camps for years, it is very normal to monitor drinking and eating and to force water.  I heavily monitor my kids water intake at home and would absolutely expect a camp to do that.  Dinner:  normal to monitor intake.  Covers:  Weird.  Kids can cover themselves however they want.  Bedtime:  LIghts out is always at a specified time, usually 10:00pm.  There would not be an opportunity to go to bed prior to that.

[luuknam]

I like the idea of a scout camp where they can do stuff relevant to their progress in the scout program.  But yes, there were other great camps I bypassed for this one.

 

It would be nice to get some honest feedback from other parents, just to see if my experience is unique or not, but I don't know how I'd do that.

 

There are other kids from their normal AHG group that also went, right? So you could ask parents next week or whenever their next normal meeting is at drop-off/pick-up or something.

 

I get that the idea is appealing. It's just that if leaders mess up in multiple ways it damages my trust in their ability to run camp wrt safety, usefulness, fun, etc. Yes, older kids are less vulnerable to leader mistakes than younger kids, but still, I wouldn't choose to put my kids in the hands of incompetent people at any age if I've got other options. If nothing else, I'm not a fan of having kids expelled from camp due to leader error - I send my kids to camp for a sanity break (among other reasons), so I don't want to see them back before camp is supposed to be over (unless they're genuinely ill, not ill because they were forced to drink insane amounts of water and being forced to sleep way less than experts say is appropriate for kids that age).

[Seasider]

Yes, notify both. Also, I don't see why you'd send your kids back ever again - it's not like it's the only camp near you.

 

 

The nurse should've been able to tell the mom that it's okay for kids to use blankets however they want. Sorry, but imo nurses should have at least a little bit of assertiveness and not be easily intimidated by people.

 

Sleep deprivation is a safety issue - people make a lot more mistakes while tired. If the kids were getting at most 7 hours of 5 nights in a row, the adults were certainly not getting more, and quite probably less (on average). Now, adults only need 7-8 hours, but if you need 8 hours and you're getting, say, 6 hours, that will add up over the course of a few days, which is not good when you're supervision a bunch of 9yo kids in activities like canoeing, swimming, horse riding, and who knows what else.

 

ETA: maybe you handle mild sleep deprivation well and/or need little sleep, but I know that if I got less than 7 hours a few nights in a row I'd be making more mistakes.

You have an excellent point regarding supervising adult sleep deprivation.

[8circles]

Having worked at camps for years, it is very normal to monitor drinking and eating and to force water. I heavily monitor my kids water intake at home and would absolutely expect a camp to do that. Dinner: normal to monitor intake. Covers: Weird. Kids can cover themselves however they want. Bedtime: LIghts out is always at a specified time, usually 10:00pm. There would not be an opportunity to go to bed prior to that.

What kind of calls did you work at? I think it's fair to monitor eating and drinking, but the op's situation sounds extreme. Encouraging water is great. Forcing water? NO.

 

I just asked ds13 who has gone to several bsa camps. He confirmed that boys are free to go to bed as early as 9-9:30 and actual bedtime wasn't until 10:30 (I can't remember now if he said in tents or lights out at 10:30). It seems really strange that kids aren't allowed to sleep until so late and that everyone went to bed at the same time.

[catz]

Right the water makes sense to me in the kids need to carry water bottles and there are regular water breaks.  Forcing each kid to drink some amount seems ridiculous to me.  I wonder if they had issues without enforcing and got complaints and went too far the other way.  Weird.  The blanket thing is weird too. 

[StephanieZ]

It's AHG and the camp itself might be officially run by a separate organization.

 

Well, this makes a lot more sense to me than it being a Girl Scout camp. 

 

AHG is a young organization. They are probably just not competent to be doing what they are doing. I'm so sorry your family has had such an ordeal!

[StephanieZ]

It's AHG and the camp itself might be officially run by a separate organization.

 

Well, this makes a lot more sense to me than it being a Girl Scout camp. 

 

AHG is a young organization. They are probably just not competent to be doing what they are doing. I'm so sorry your family has had such an ordeal!

[Jenn121]

I have been a Troop Coordinator and run a few AHG Camps. I would encourage you to let AHG National know about your experience. There are policies in place for regional summer camps and this issue needs to be addressed.

 

For our camps we would have two lights out times one for the younger girls and one for the olders. 11pm lights out for that age group not make sense.

There are ways to make sure people are hydrated without pushing that much water.

 

Again I urge you to let National know. Or this silliness will continue. I love that BSA has such detailed planning helps for camp outs and activities and AHG is working on having procedures like that too.