Do you expect your children to care for you and never put you in a nursing home? (eldercare discussion)

[creekland]

My mom has openly stated she doesn't want to live with us when/if she needs extensive care.  I'd like her to come live with us now, but she enjoys her single life where she lives.  Can't blame her.

 

I have no idea what my dad will do, nor do I make much effort to care.  He's not living with us.

 

I don't plan to live long enough to need extensive care.  It's not my idea of a quality of life and I'm intelligent enough to not get there as long as it's not due to something sudden like a debilitating accident or similar.  My family knows my thoughts, and while not agreeing with them, they have agreed that I can make my own decisions without worrying about them interfering.

 

Just "old" but doing mostly fine?  If we can't afford it on our own, then our boys are expecting us to come live with them in a similar manner that they know they are welcome here at any time if they can't afford a place of their own.  We're a close family and anyone living with others would pull their own weight doing what they could to help out.  We'd enjoy it.

 

I'd care for hubby (or my boys) as long as I could if that's the future - paying for some in home help if needed.  I have no desire to have any of my cared-about relatives in a nursing home.  My grandma's stay at one made a deep impression on me (both her and others there who were essentially waiting to die).  No thank you.

Edited February 16, 2016 by creekland

[Catherine]

Knowing as I do the details of so many people in this situation, I can only say that it's impossible for me to say what will happen in the future.  I do know that my mom has heaped a ton of verbal disapproval on people she's seen place their family members in nursing homes, for whatever the reason. I take it that she expects us to care for her...I am in deep denial currently LOL.  She doesn't need care yet. But it honestly could happen any day.  Since my folks are not ones to plan ahead much, I will wait to see the situation when it arises.  Stress will be involved, no doubt!  

 

As far as I am concerned, I just don't know right now what I would want.  At this point I am hoping for no need for long term care, and burying my head in the sand.  

[Night Elf]

I don't know really. I have mixed feelings. I'm watching my mom care for my 93 year old grandmother. Grandma still lives in her own home but she no longer drives. She has some medical problems, but so far Mom and her sister have been able to meet all of Grandma's needs. Grandma is terrified that they will put her in a home. At her age, she has watched numerous peers go into homes and become miserable. She has told my Mom that if the time ever came where she needed full time care that Mom and Aunt would hire a 24/7 nurse to live with Grandma. I don't know how much money my Grandma has but her last husband left her very well off.

 

My mom told me what scares her the most is losing the way she lives her life. She watches tv. And I mean all day. She adores movies, history shows, news programs. She does puzzles or plays on her computer sometimes but she always has the tv on. A few new assisted living places have opened up in her area and she thinks they look really nice. She got a brochure from one and the fine print at the bottom said the rooms did not have phone or tv. Mom said to never, never put her into a home where she can control what she watches on tv in her own room.

 

Right now my mom and stepdad live in an apartment. He's 78 and still works part-time even though he has medical problems. They cannot afford to live on their own on just social security without that added income. My mom fully expects that if he dies, she is going to move in with either me or my sister. But we haven't discussed options beyond that.

 

What do I expect of my kids? Wow, I don't know. I don't want to be a burden but the idea of  being parked in a home somewhere on my own doesn't sound appealing. We're just not all rich people. I don't know how I'll afford a place for my mom. DH and I have set money aside for retirement but it won't cover an assisted living facility or nursing home. I do like the idea of living with family until I can no longer care for myself. Then I'll just have to accept whatever place my kids can afford to put me. My grandmother says it's common for the homes she has seen to wheel patients into the hallways and just park them there so they aren't stuck in their rooms. I see that as my future. I guess as long as I can sit up in a wheelchair and can talk to someone, I'll have to be happy or at least tolerant. One expectation I do have is that I'm not forgotten. I do expect my kids to visit me on a regular basis. I'll be devastated if they don't allow time to continue a relationship with me.

[Carrie12345]

Nope.

My 13yo has told me she wouldn't mind sharing a property and having me putter around the garden when I'm old, but she's 13, lol.  And "old" is going to look different for each individual.

 

I already have family issues because I didn't "help take care of Grandma" (that help being undefined and never asked for) while living an hour and a half away, raising 5 kids, including 2 little ones.  Some people's expectations are just nuts.

[medawyn]

My father owns and manages retirement communities, so I have seen a lot of angles of elder care. After watching the decline of my four grandparents (and alternately the stress DH's family is going through with his four), I am prioritizing retirement savings to be able to afford end of life care in a facility equipped to deal with it. Hopefully.

 

My two sets of parents feel the same way. We 'll see how finances work out.

[Bluegoat]

 I don't expect it, I think there are too many variables to really talk about it that way.

 

I don't blame anyone who is scared of nursing homes though, especially if they know they can't afford top dollar.

 

Maybe it is an age difference, but I find that my parents' generation is the opposite - they seem to insist on living independently, they find the idea of living with kids, even if they don't need nursing care, somehow undignified.  Personally, when my parents are old I would much rather have them very close-by. If they are having to have VON type care in an assisted living place I don't see that as much different than having them in a shared place or someplace close to me.  Part of it is convienince - I know there will be things I need to help with no matter what and it seems crazy to have to drive to do so, and I also think it makes more economic sense in many ways. (This is of course assuming I am in good health.)

[FaithManor]

I think that seniors homes and nursing facilities are an excellent choice for elder care. Families are for *loving* each other. Medical professionals are for providing medical care. To me, wondering if I will become an amateur nurse for an extended period of time doesn't make much sense. If I thought there were some extrodinary benefit, to doing that work myself, I'd consider it... But I don't see the point, unless the available care setting just isn't providing good quality of life.

 

But I'm in a universal healthcare country, so maybe that changes my perspective. I don't know if many people are doing actual medical elder care at home in my country. I know some who have done hospice-at-home (not treatment, and not for long) and some who have lived together with elderly parents who had low medical needs (with home-care assistance with that side of things) when the co-living was more about not being alone, cooking, cleaning, and driving. It seems to be the norm to seek medical settings once a certain degree of ongoing medical care is needed.

I know numerous people who without any medical training are required to provide medical care for their loved ones. The insurance industry drives everything here. Everything. They will not pay for in home health nurse even if the doctor orders it. My mom was required to learn to drain my dad's chest tube and track an array of medical symptoms and issues, struggles with his complicated meds routine, etc. because the insurance was not required to have an RN come more than three times and the chest tube is permanent. If mom had refused, he would have been allowed to die from the build up of fluid in his lungs because the local nursing homes - which medicare will pay for - had a three month waiting list for a bed and medicare is not required to pay for him to be hospitalized for routine care or go to a doctor's office for draining.

 

It is a real problem. Many who have loved ones on hospice are asked to provide an extraordinary amount of medical care with nearly ZERO training.

 

I do not do body fluids well. Dad tried to insist that I be the one to learn to handle his chest tube. I looked him in the face and told him I was putting his name on the nursing home waiting list right then and there, and that he would have to pay for the bi-weekly nurse visits out of pocket until a bed opened up. Mom determined she would do it. But there isn't any back up and her health is not great, so he will be in a home pretty quickly if she were to become sick or hospitalized. The body fluid that comes out is pretty disgusting due to the cancer - lots of dried blood and gunk and stuff - and well, there is not a nursing bone in my body. Literally. It was hard for me to survive the years of little kids, potty issues, and stomach flu. I was the most relieved mother in the world when they became old enough that I no longer dealt with that. Love, love, love having older kids! So tending his chest tube is simply not happening, and believe me, I've been called the big B word by numerous relatives for not being willing to provide that level of care.

[marbel]

 <snip>

Personally, when my parents are old I would much rather have them very close-by. If they are having to have VON type care in an assisted living place I don't see that as much different than having them in a shared place or someplace close to me.  Part of it is convienince - I know there will be things I need to help with no matter what and it seems crazy to have to drive to do so, and I also think it makes more economic sense in many ways. (This is of course assuming I am in good health.)

 

Both my parents lived close to me, but not with me, when they died.  It was good to be close. 

 

But then I think about my in-laws.  My husband and I agreed early in our marriage that we would welcome parents into our home if necessary.  It wasn't necessary for mine.  His, though, oh boy.  They are nearing 80 and still fine but... probably won't be for long. But they don't expect to move; they want to stay right where they are. They live 700 miles away from us in a small, run-down town in the middle of nowhere, with few services, on a narrow, windy, mountain road that doesn't get plowed for several days after a snow.  Not a good location for aging in place.  Even if my husband wanted to move to their town (he doesn't), and could find a job there, I won't live there. So I don't know what will happen with them. I'm willing to have them live with us if they need to, but they may not be willing to do that.  They may make it very hard for us to care for them, if they insist on staying where they are.  (Their other child, my SIL, lives on a different continent and I doubt she would move back, though I could be wrong.)

 

Then I think of my father's family.  He had 3 sisters.  His parents owned a duplex, and one of the daughters moved into half of it when she got married. So my grandparents were able to stay in their home, because the daughter lived right there.  The other 2 sisters lived within 5 miles, I think. My dad moved us 3000 miles away so he was out of the picture with regard to care. 

 

Today, my aunt still lives in the duplex and one of her kids lives in the other half with his family. She will die in that house.  And, I bet my cousin will have one of his grown kids move in, and keep that cycle going.

 

I just hope to make it easy on my kids.

[Pam in CT]

Oy, such an important topic.

 

"Expect" my kids to take on what potentially could be an open-ended, massively time-consuming, life-altering, physically and emotionally exhausting set of obligations for what could be years?  No.

 

That said, do I "hope" to die in a bed at my own home or one of theirs, surrounded by people I love?  Yes.  If I am honest, yes.  Having seen death in a variety of forms, I do believe that last moments in homes (with appropriate palliative supports) are preferable to nursing home and particularly hospital settings.  (Good hospice is different -- good hospice IME looks more like a bed in a home.)

 

But, of course, none of us know what the end is going to look like.  There's a lot of space between "expect" and "hope."

 

 

I third or fourth the recommendation of Atul Gawande's Being Mortal: Medicine and What Matters in the End, which I'd rank among the most important books I've read in the last five years.  Written from the perspective of a surgeon who grew up in a culture which very much expects adult children to care for their elders, and examining all facets of end-game issues within a modern US context.  His theme is that medical practitioners in the US have misunderstood what their goal should be: rather than seeking to extend life at any/all costs (not just $ costs, but also pain, loss of physical function, and attendant loss of ability to do what gives the individual's life meaning), he has come to believe that the focus of medicine should be to enable well-being.  But, he argues, medical practitioners are ill-equipped to even begin such trade-off conversations (think treatment in last stages of cancer, for example) and patients and their families are ill-equipped to participate in them.  So, so good.

 

And I'd second New Yorker cartoonist Roz Chast's Can't We Talk About Something More Pleasant, a memoir in cartoon format of her time caring for her own parents in their own declining health, which is simultaneously funny and wise.  I've given this to several friends going through this.

 

 

 

...

I am sorry you are feeling judged. I think we are in a bit of transition with eldercare. People are living much longer (we have a great grandmother that is 96 and a great uncle that is 95 between both dies of our families!). My mother has dealt with eldercare issues for the last 20 years and has very strong feelings on our participation in her eldercare. I feel like the social norms and expectations are shifting, so I imagine my kids will have a very different view of their role in the process than people just two or three generations before them did. (of course, if Kurzweil is correct the future is going to be crazy and I can hardly imagine the aging issues my kids and grandkids will be dealing with. Do you want to download your conscience to be put in a newer body model?)

:iagree: I am so very grateful to live in an age with the medical and technological capacity that we have.  But it has created a Pandora's box of quality of live questions for the individual, and how & where & who & to what $cost & who pays questions that are still works in progress.

 

 

 

No. It would be an unreasonable expectation to expect my kids to put their lives on hold to take care of me.

I very much hope that I won't need this type of care; neither of my grandmothers did. If it does come to it, I hope to have my affairs in order and my long term care arranged without being a burden on my children. But I really hope I can conveniently fall off a mountain before it comes to that point.

 

Now this said: I can imagine at some point living with one of my children. My grandmother lived with us and it was a win-win situation for all involved. But I would not expect that, and would definitely not want them to provide nursing care.

This is exactly the space between "expect" and "hope" that I live in, myself.  

 

Both my parents are alive and, thank God, still in good health for their ages.  And they are remarkably clear-eyed about planning on their own behalf.  But.  You never know.  My grandfather lived with us for many years and it was (with bumps!) win-win for all of us.

 

 

 

I think that seniors homes and nursing facilities are an excellent choice for elder care. Families are for *loving* each other. Medical professionals are for providing medical care. To me, wondering if I will become an amateur nurse for an extended period of time doesn't make much sense. If I thought there were some extrodinary benefit, to doing that work myself, I'd consider it... But I don't see the point, unless the available care setting just isn't providing good quality of life.

But I'm in a universal healthcare country, so maybe that changes my perspective. I don't know if many people are doing actual medical elder care at home in my country. I know some who have done hospice-at-home (not treatment, and not for long) and some who have lived together with elderly parents who had low medical needs (with home-care assistance with that side of things) when the co-living was more about not being alone, cooking, cleaning, and driving. It seems to be the norm to seek medical settings once a certain degree of ongoing medical care is needed.

What in-home support services are covered by Medicare/Medicaid and what are not very much complicate the issue in the US right now.  Whatever happens here with health care, I do expect that as boomers age, there will be more and more pressure for expanded coverage for in-home elder services.

[pinkmint]

I have no idea what I expect of my kids at this point in terms of what my and DH's fate will be when we're elderly. Lots of variables. I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get there. 

 

As far as my own dealings with our parents, for one thing, it makes it hard when one's parents are aging and not married to each other. Between DH and I we have 4 different people none of whom will be in the same room with each other. Plus add 2 for my dad's wife (has no children)/ DH's dad's wife. My dad and his wife, and DH's dad and his wife are taking care of each other for now. Our moms are both unmarried. My mom is not in great shape physically but would probably rather die (I've asked her) than live with us since we live in a low income area/ home which does not meet her standards. 

 

 

 

 

[fairfarmhand]

I think there are many angles that have to be considered.

 

Do older parents want to live with their children?

 

Is that a healthy position for ALL parties?

 

Are older parents in need of financial assistance?

 

Or do they need intensive nursing care?

 

Or is is just "Keep an eye on Granny because she's a little unsure on her feet?

 

These are all different situations.

 

I don't think I'd mind as much my kids just having me in their homes to keep an eye on me so I don't fall. But I don't want them changing my depends. I don't want them having to provide 24/7 nursing care for me. I don't want to sideline their whole lives to keep me alive.

[FaithManor]

The other issue involved in all of this too is whether or not the elder is someone fit to be lived with on a daily basis. It is great when meemaw is a lovely person who wants to contribute to family life and be a positive influence. I think that if my dad were not who is he right now - not really fit to be around because he is viciously angry, bitter, and mentally ill now as well lashing out verbally (quite abusive to me) - we would do well having her live here with us. However, right now she lives here part time and due to my dad's influence and her profound anger with me that I won't abandon my family and move in full time at their house and take care of dad 24/7, it is just barely survivable to have her here on that part-time basis. Due to the fact that dad got quite violent and hurt her badly during one of his angry phases, the court will not let her live there with him unless another adult is in the house too.  So if my brother or I can not be there or someone from their church, then she can't be with him. It's a lot of juggling to make sure mom is there enough to keep his meds organized, his chest tube drained, etc., and then the ton of medical appointments as well. My brother and I are in counseling because it has caused us a lot of trauma trying to deal with him, mom's expectations, and his ongoing legal issues as well which include the bankruptcy of their business, no easy thing to coordinate with a verbally abusive, mentally ill person who refuses to sign power of attorney to anyone in order to expedite the paperwork.

 

So it isn't just a question of will you or won't you take care of elder x,y,z. It is also a matter of what kind of person the elder is and what it will do to your family to have that elder around all the time.

[elegantlion]

Expect my child? No. And after him helping with my dad over his last few years of life, I remind him often that he is to live HIS life and I place no expectations on him. 

 

For my parents? My mom cared for my dad for about 18 months of illness. Because of some issues, he couldn't leave the house for about 9 months for more than a quick trip somewhere. He could function on his own, dressing, showering, etc, but a colon surgery required he be very close to a bathroom at all times. 

 

We were fortunate that he did not require more extensive care in his lifetime, in fact he had be driving on the day he died. He did not want a nursing home, but my mom and I had been having those discussions if it came to that point. We have few and mostly bad examples of affordable care around us. One was shut down by the state recently, one had numerous code violations witnessed by an employee (whom we know first hand) that created safety hazards. 

 

For me, I plan to provide care for my mom until I cannot. She is almost 80, in great health right now, and working on downsizing to keep things manageable for her while she still has her health. I am planning on grad school, which means moving and how far I go may depend upon her health, how far I study as well (masters vs Phd). I do not plan on forcing my mom to move from this area, she likes this region, this is her home. I feel no obligation to do it, as she has stated before, but I plan to because I feel it is important for me. 

 

For my own health, I feel like my dad did. I don't want to go to a nursing home. I'm a hermit, I like being on my own. I wouldn't mind a more independent place. I also have changed my feelings about the timing of my end of life. I watched my dad be miserable for the last few months of his life, he had regrets about his surgery and his quality of life. Thankfully, he pushed through some issues, but I think he knew he wouldn't be around much longer. I think the quality of life is important and I don't want to be living if I'm incoherent and having to be turned every hour with no mental capacity left. I would rather embrace my mortality at that point and recognize that I was only delaying the inevitable. 

 

I miss my dad everyday, but his condition was deteriorating. I feel fortunate that he was active until the day of his death, and in many way, he died on his terms as well. I would prefer to go out that way and am having conversation with my family as to my wishes. I realize that could all change and may not be up to me in some scenarios. 

[TranquilMind]

Title says it all.

 

I've been mulling these things over for the last little bit. It seems that people of my parent's generation seem to take pride (at least the ones I know) in "We never put Granny in the nursing home. We cared for her at home until she passed. " When you talk to them, you learn that Granny was in their home for a year or two, was bedfast for a month or two and then passed.

 

But to me, it seems that things have changed. Medically, people can live for a very long time with debilitating illnesses, needing intensive care. Perhaps a bedfast person could live much longer nowadays, needing care for that time with personal hygiene, rolling to prevent bedsores, etc. So is this expectation ("Please, promise me you'll never put me in a nursing home") reasonable? In some families, especially single- parent families, that will be impossible because bills have to be paid, groceries have to be bought.

 

I also see a huge fear of people of nursing homes. And yet, I personally know many good people who work in nursing homes. The home my mom was in was fabulous and my dad was close to the employees there, with some of them attending her funeral. I can't make a blanket statement that every nursing home is horrible. It's apparent to me that the big difference in those who get excellent care is a family who visits multiple times per week, knows what Granny needs, and insists upon it.

 

I told my kids that I don't want them to care for me like that. I don't want them to have to clean me up multiple times per day, stress their marriages to the breaking point, and neglect their kids' needs for mine. (not saying that every eldercare situation is like this, but I can see the stress that it can put on many people and know that there is great potential for these problems to pop up when an eldercare situation goes on for months and years.) I'd rather they found me a nice place and came to see me, insisting on good care for me. I don't think it's unloving of them to not personally provide that care for me.

 

Does this seem cold of me?  Am I being selfish for rethinking eldercare? And why is there this big stigma against adult children finding a good place for their parents? I know adults who act all apologetic and list the reasons why they had to do this rather than doing it themselves.

 

I mean, if you can provide that level of care for a parent, and it works well with your family dynamic, then great. But what if it doesnt? Why the shame?

 

Do you expect your kids to take care of you and never put you in a home?

 

(please know, there's no judging going on here. I just need to discuss this. I wish everyone's choice could be respected that they did the best they could for their individual situation)

I have already been a caregiver, so this probably colors my views.  My husband and I grew closer.  What a man, to help care for and clean up my relative like that, tenderly.  That's when you really know what you have in a spouse.   

 

I will not ask.  But I won't go to a nursing home either.  Ever.  I'd crawl off and hide in the woods first, or, more likely, hop a plane to some island somewhere.  If my kids didn't want to take care of me, if God forbid, that were necessary, fine.  But leave me the hell alone, don't try to manage me.  It won't happen. 

 

I think everyone does the best he can, but I do think that if one feels guilty, then there is a reason for that.  Only you really know. 

 

It isn't fear.  It is knowledge.  Not happening unless I am not ambulatory. 

Edited February 16, 2016 by TranquilMind

[shawthorne44]

No.  Absolutely positively not.  No, no, no.  

 

I had a great-aunt whose life was ruined by the philosophy of taking care of the elderly infirm parents in the home.  She was born in the 1920's and the only daughter out of 4.  There was a grandparent in the house that needed constant care, as in bedpans and needing to be rotated to stop bedsores.  My aunt said she got her first nursing education from listening to her aunt talk about caring for her Grandmother.  This was on a farm, and as the only daughter, care for the grandparent fell entirely on my great-aunt.  When she should have been out joining society and being courted, she was holed up in the house being a nurse.  This lasted many years and by the time her grandparent had died, she was a spinster in the 1940's without an education or a job in a tiny farm community.   

[amy g.]

I saw my BIL sacrifice so much to keep my MIL home through a decade of dementia so she could die peacefully taking a nap on her own couch. I would do that for my husband. I would never put him in a home, no matter what. I would probably take care of my sister no matter how bad her situation was as well.

 

I've already told my kids that what I care about is their lives and the lives of their children. If I become a destructive force due to dementia or a brain tumor or mental illness, put me some place cheap where the end will come quickly and don't waste money on a funeral.

 

Hopefully by that time, I will still be able to pass the assets we have worked for to our children and grandchildren.

 

Since I have 4 daughters, it is likely that one of them will want to care for me. So long as I had my mental faculties, I'd be happy living with family, rocking babies, cooking meals, cleaning toilets, homeschooling grandchildren and anything else I could do to lighten the load on my kids.

[Laura Corin]

 

 

I will not ask.  But I won't go to a nursing home either.  Ever.  I'd crawl off and hide in the woods first, or, more likely, hop a plane to some island somewhere.  If my kids didn't want to take care of me, if God forbid, that were necessary, fine.  But leave me the hell alone, don't try to manage me.  It won't happen. 

 

The thing is: this isn't only about you.  Really it isn't.  You are imposing a burden on your children by refusing to be cared for in a way that works for them as well as you.  I promise you, I know whereof I speak.  And you are also imposing a burden if you try to kill yourself (crawl off into the woods) to avoid old age and a nursing home - again, I have two generations of experience of this. 

 

It is, of course, your life and your choice.  But refusing outside care or hastening your end both have effects on others; they are not neutral acts.

[PineFarmMom]

I don't expect that from my children. When we talk about it down the line, I intend to let them know they don't have to do that for me. I live 500 feet from my elderly parents. I would like to do what I can to care for them and keep them out of a nursing home if I can. I know my limits though. I am a stay at home homeschooling mom and will likely be one until they are in their nineties. It is all a possible scenario for me. I'm praying about it now and will take things a day at a time as they come. Right now they are healthy and vibrant.

[T'smom]

I don't expect that of my children, and I am pretty sure my parents don't expect that of us- since I know they bought nursing home insurance!

[TranquilMind]

The thing is: this isn't only about you.  Really it isn't.  You are imposing a burden on your children by refusing to be cared for in a way that works for them as well as you.  I promise you, I know whereof I speak.  And you are also imposing a burden if you try to kill yourself (crawl off into the woods) to avoid old age and a nursing home - again, I have two generations of experience of this. 

 

It is, of course, your life and your choice.  But refusing outside care or hastening your end both have effects on others; they are not neutral acts.

I have already been a caregiver.  I know what I'm talking about here.  I've done it. It isn't theoretical to me.   

 

I'm being a bit hyperbolic about the crawling off into the woods, of course, but I can promise you that I neither impose demands nor expect anything. And I will consider my kids' input, of course.  But I will not be controlled, absent a court ruling of incompetence, and I will know if I need help or not. And they know this.   I give the older person that kind of respect, and not assume I can decide for him for my own convenience (again, absent incompetence or immobility). 

 

I never worried about that "hastening the end"  part.  I did my best.  If something had happened to my relative that I somehow did not foresee, I would not have blamed myself, because I did my best and used my best judgment in the situation at the time. 

 

The only thing I regret was advocating for a surgery in the last couple of years of life.  It was seriously debilitating, and the drugs were worse, and the issue didn't kill the patient anyway.  We could have let that one go and had more enjoyable time together. 

Edited February 16, 2016 by TranquilMind

[Anne in CA]

I would not put my parents in a nursing home unless they had medical issues I couldn't deal with. Unfortunately my parents are not easy to live with, but the nursing homes where they live are not good. I would not want them there unless there were real medical reasons. While she was in nursing school my sister worked in one and she hated it. I think lots of good people work in nursing homes, but that doesn't help some of them. Some of them are awful.

 

I don't expect my kids to take care of me if I am sick, but if I simply cant be by myself I would hope they would let me live with them.

[MotherGoose]

I think part of the cultural expectation to take care of one's elders arose when people had numerous children, and those children lived in the same area so the burden didn't fall entirely on one overworked child. I saw that with in laws when grandma became ill. She guilt tripped her daughter into giving up her life, job, and expediting the destruction of her marriage (it wasn't good to begin with) and her health to take care of her 24 - 7. Daughter couldn't even go to the grocery store or out to lunch without an ordeal of finding a babysitter. This went on for a couple of years. Yes, great grandma had that level of care from her children, but great grandma had 10 kids who lived in the area. Grandma had only 3, and only the daughter helped. I also think prolonging life when there is no hope of improvement is not sensible. Grandma had a vena cava filter put in to catch blood clots 6 months before she died. She already had congestive heart failure and was basically bed ridden. She was in her 80s.

[J-rap]

No, I don't expect that.  They're all very caring and considerate though, and I'm sure that -- if I'm unable to make that decision myself -- they'll make the decision that's best and most sensible for all involved.

 

My own parents are 88 but still doing fairly well.  They still live in their home, travel a bit, entertain, and volunteer.  But I have seen them slowing down a lot.  What has helped them is that they have always offered their home rent-free to the grandchildren as they are getting launched in life, and many grandchildren have taken them up on that offer.  They live in an ideal area, a large metro near many colleges and job opportunities.  They have probably had a grandchild living with them (different ones) for 6-7 years now.  My dd and her dh are living with them now after just moving to their area and looking for jobs.  It's so great.  My dd and her dh do the snow shoveling, yard work, and things like that.  It enables my parents to keep living independently.

 

My mil moved into a nursing home a couple years ago.  It is really lovely.  It is run by the Catholic church.  She has 7 children but all of them are working full-time or disabled, so this is what worked out best.  They are all very considerate of her, as are her grandchildren, and she probably has visitors daily from family.  A few years ago, she gave out her inheritance money to her children because she wanted to do it while she was still alive and it was tax-free.  She made sure to have money for herself for at least 5 years at a quality nursing home.  Shortly after that, she became extremely frail and quite confused.  So, that's what prompted the sale of her home and the move to the nursing home.  She can no longer stand, walk, get out of bed, or use the bathroom alone.  She can't figure out how to use the phone.  She can't read anymore.  The nursing home attendants are mostly Catholic nuns and they are very loving and caring with her.  But the thing is, her heart is strong, her blood pressure is good, she has no chronic health issues.  She is very unhappy and can't do anything by herself and doesn't want to be there, but in reality, she could continue to live for a long time.  Her dd who handles her finances is saying that in 3 more years, we will have to return the inheritance money because otherwise she can't stay in the nursing home.  Of course, we will do that, but what happens if that runs out too?  Then I suppose her children will pay out of pocket.  I really don't know how nursing homes work.  Do most people have to pay above and beyond insurance, Medicare, etc.?  What happens if you have no money?

[SparklyUnicorn]

I do not expect it.  Granted, nursing homes aren't great, but if I need constant care I don't think it is reasonable to expect my kids to do it.

My dad is currently helping take care of his mother.  She is in her late 80s and can no longer be left alone.  He is there almost every single day all day long.  Two other siblings help here or there, but they still work (my dad is disabled).  I think it is nice he is doing it, but I think it isn't terribly fair.  What it comes down to at this point is his siblings want to do the care themselves (although he is doing an unfair share) so they don't have to spend her money on it.  She has the money to hire someone to come in.  My dad is ok with her having no money in the end, but he basically just goes along with the wishes of his siblings.

 

 

[ScoutTN]

No! 

My perspective on this has changed in the last few years. I have realized how very difficult it can be to give adequate (nevermind excellent) care. I used to think that I would never want my mom in any kind of care facility and that shaped my expectations and desires for myself. 

 

My mom has had some major health issues over the last few years and I have really appreciated what good nursing, in-patient rehab and assisted living can do to make a family's life better. Granted, these were temporary stays and my mom still lives independently. Fiercely so! But I can see the day coming when she may not be able to live on her own. Even now, I do a good deal to assist her. 

 

I am an older mom, almost 50, with school age kids who will likely homeschool through high school. I have a part time job too and my work hours will likely go up as my kids get older, to help pay for their education. We have a small house and cannot afford to buy one with a MIL apt. I simply do not have the resources to care for my mom in a daily way as she ages. I have also seen how assisted living (or nursing care)  can preserve my mom's dignity and keep our relationship as mother and daughter, without reversing roles. Another important element is that our worldviews are very different and that clash in daily living would be stressful at best.

 

I also saw my mom care for my step-father as he was dying. He refused to be in any care facility and she honored that wish. They had the resources to have some in-home care, but it was utterly exhausting on my mom and sent her into a physical and emotional downward spiral that almost cost her her own life. It is hard enough to see your loved one suffering the ravages of age and dying, but to bear all the responsibility of daily care and decision making (on top of running a household and doing ordinary life) is something that many of us will not really be able to handle.

 

In previous generations, they did the best they could at home because that was all they had. It wasn't easy or always good for their relationships. A multi-generational extended family with many hands to help is a nice scenario, but rare in our industrialized Western culture. Certainly, there is something to be said for  living with family in a real home and for dying peacefully at home. I just don't think we should idealize that or expect it.

 

All this is to say that I will not expect my kids to care for us all by themselves. I will be thankful to have some people to take some of that load from them! I have no way to know what their lives will hold and what they will be able or willing to do or what our needs will be. I hope we will live near to one another, see one another often and continue to have close, warm relationships and a shared religious faith. I hope that Dh and I will have grandchildren to enjoy. I hope that we will age relatively well, have adequate care and slip out of this world and into eternity with loved ones nearby. I hope that in my old age, if I live that long, I will be as much a joy as a responsibility for my kids and that that responsibility would not be a crushing one.

 

Institutional care certainly has dangers and drawbacks; I have seen some of those. Would I want to be alone and ill, without a loving advocate, in a nursing home? No, of course not.  But I realize that some of these things may be beyond my control. I pray, plan and hope for the best, thankful that  the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. Romans 8:18. 

 

[amy g.]

To answer your question about why the negative attitude about nursing homes, I think of them the same way that I think of daycares. They should be safe and high quality, because they are needed by many if not most people.

 

Unfortunately, they are offen staffed by the lowest paid, and least educated workers.

 

My uncle did nursing home undercover investigations for our state. I have worked in various daycares.

 

Knowing what I know, I'm keeping the babies and the old people I love at home, and I'm very grateful to have the resources to make that a reality.

[Serenade]

No, I don't.

 

However, I also think old people have the right to live in their house as long as they are somewhat able, if that is their desire.  I believe they have that right as an adult to live in a house that might not be super clean, where they might not have the necessities and care that social services or family deems is necessary.  As long as they are not a danger to anyone else, only themselves, they have the right to die in their own house if that is what they want, even if a nursing home might prolong their lives. 

 

More than fear of a nursing home, I fear that somebody will someday haul me out of my house and put me in a home because of some artificial level of care that they think I need, and then that I will be put away for my own "good".  I should be able to decide what my own good is, even if I'm old and not maybe perfectly mentally stable.  As long as I'm not harming anyone else, that should be my right.

[creekland]

The thing is: this isn't only about you.  Really it isn't.  You are imposing a burden on your children by refusing to be cared for in a way that works for them as well as you.  I promise you, I know whereof I speak.  And you are also imposing a burden if you try to kill yourself (crawl off into the woods) to avoid old age and a nursing home - again, I have two generations of experience of this. 

 

It is, of course, your life and your choice.  But refusing outside care or hastening your end both have effects on others; they are not neutral acts.

 

Everything that happens has an affect on others.  When one gets to where they can't care for themselves (age doesn't really matter), it will have a serious affect on others.  It doesn't matter what choice is made.  There are none that won't affect others.  Folks need to think through things and plan for what they want - even discussing these things with their loved ones (assuming loved ones are old enough to have this discussion, of course).

 

My ideal world would be similar to the pets and farm critters we have.  Once life gets beyond hope or the quality of life seriously suffers, we make the hard decisions and have them put down.  Sometimes that saves them a few hours of suffering.  Sometimes a few days, months, or maybe a year.  We contemplate every aspect we can think of when we make those decisions, but in the end, we always make the decision we think is correct for their situation.

 

BUT, modern society frowns upon that with humans.  Instead, we try to prolong life well beyond what it should be - generally due to our religious beliefs or selfishness of not wanting to lose them.  We've created great measures to buy more time, but at what cost (not just financial)?  We sometimes force people into living a life they do NOT WANT just because WE want it for them.  There really is no greater injustice.  They've committed no crimes, after all.  They shouldn't be put into any sort of prison (at home, nursing home, etc).

 

Adults are fully capable of looking at their situation and deciding for themselves what they want for the end of life.  No decision is easy and no decision should be made against what someone else wants IMO (even the decision to want to continue living regardless of what's going on).

 

If society frowns upon that - so be it.  Society is not always correct.

 

NOTE:  I'm not talking about a depression situation where life seems hopeless, but it's a mental health situation that can be corrected instead.  I'm talking about real health/mobility/mental thought issues that arise at the end of life.  Life will be ending.  It's when and after how much suffering that's at stake.

 

Ironically, because society (right now - I think it's changing for the better) is so insistent that people can't make their own decisions, if I were in that position now (I'm not), I'd have to decide more quickly than necessary - just to ensure my wishes happened.  Society's trying to save those last few horrid days/months/years would actually shorten what's still reasonably decent.

[Laura Corin]

No, I don't.

 

However, I also think old people have the right to live in their house as long as they are somewhat able, if that is their desire.  I believe they have that right as an adult to live in a house that might not be super clean, where they might not have the necessities and care that social services or family deems is necessary.  As long as they are not a danger to anyone else, only themselves, they have the right to die in their own house if that is what they want, even if a nursing home might prolong their lives. 

 

More than fear of a nursing home, I fear that somebody will someday haul me out of my house and put me in a home because of some artificial level of care that they think I need, and then that I will be put away for my own "good".  I should be able to decide what my own good is, even if I'm old and not maybe perfectly mentally stable.  As long as I'm not harming anyone else, that should be my right.

 

I agree with you.  I left my mother in what many would consider unacceptable circumstances until the day when she was hospitalised, and when it also became clear that her house was a danger to the adjoining house, inhabited by an 80yo (rot, gas leak, broken windows falling into shared access).

 

[redsquirrel]

I find the phrase "put your parents in a nursing home" odd because that just isn't how it works in my family. My mom didn't make decisions like that for her parents. They put themselves in an assisted care facility. They made financial plans, and moved to the facility of their choice. Same on my dad's side. My only living grandparent is still doing really well and lives in a very nice assisted living facility. No one put her there. She moved in herself. She and her late husband did the research and planned financially for their retirement so that all of this is taken care of. My aunt takes her out for lunch or dinner several times a week and everyone visits as often as they can. 

 

I think adults making decision for other adults is odd unless one of the adults is no longer mentally able to make decisions. Assuming your children will take care of you is odd. If your children offer and both parties agree, that is great, but neither the parents nor the kids should make assumptions about something this major. No one is going to decide for me where I am going to live as a senior unless I'm no longer capable of making that decision. I plan to live in an assisted living facility when the time comes. I have no plans to take care of my parents or my in-laws personally, but my husband and I will contribute financially, if needed. To my knowledge everyone has things squared away financially, but if something unexpected comes up, we will help. They are all mentally competent adults. It just wouldn't occur to me to step in and try to make decisions for them. 

 

 

But some people won't make that decision for themselves. My mother had to essentially 'put' her dad in a nursing facility. She had to go to to him and tell him that his medical needs were beyond what she could provide and he couldn't stay with her any longer, for his own safety. He obviously needed around the clock care and we, the kids, were in school, and my mom had to work to support the family. He was alone all day and it was getting dangerous. He couldn't make his own food, he needed to be taken to the bathroom (although he denied that), he needed help with his colostomy bag, he needed help getting dressed. He was forgetting who we were and often didn't know where he was. It wasn't uncommon for me to come down in the morning to find all the kitchen cupboards open, all the drawers open, and he was wandering around, from cupboard to drawer searching and searching. When I spoke to him he would start to cry and tell me that he didn't know any of this stuff and he didn't know where he was. I would have to explain to him that he lived with  his daughter now (she had left for work at 4am). And then I would get the younger kids off to school and we would have to leave him there all day. It seemed so cruel to him. He needed more than we could provide.

 

But he resisted, He fought her, he guilted her terribly. But he was putting himself in danger by not getting more care. She tried getting him a day nurse,but he was only eligible for so much before his insurance stopped paying. And when he did have it, it wasn't even every day, and only for a few hours at a time.

 

So, for his own safety and her sanity she had to 'put' him in a nursing home. But it doesn't mean she didn't love him or regard him as her father. His expectations weren't realistic, and he needed more care or something bad was going to happen. He was going to fall down the stairs when we were at school and my 10 year old brother was going to come home and find him dead.

 

I remember her teaching us what to do in different kind of medial emergencies. He was at risk for hemorrhage, so she had to teach us not to be afraid of the blood, but what to do until an ambulance arrived.  I know how to do a field test for a TIA or other kind of stroke, which isn't that big a deal, lol. but we were kids. That seems like a lot to have to expect from children.

 

 

It wasn't what he wanted, but it was the best and safest place for him. He needed around the clock care and he refused to see that.  So, that is how you can end up 'putting' someone in a nursing home, even when you love that person very, very much.

 

[Valley Girl]

 

 

My ideal world would be similar to the pets and farm critters we have.  Once life gets beyond hope or the quality of life seriously suffers, we make the hard decisions and have them put down.  Sometimes that saves them a few hours of suffering.  Sometimes a few days, months, or maybe a year.  We contemplate every aspect we can think of when we make those decisions, but in the end, we always make the decision we think is correct for their situation.

 

BUT, modern society frowns upon that with humans.  Instead, we try to prolong life well beyond what it should be - generally due to our religious beliefs or selfishness of not wanting to lose them.

 

I agree that people today often resort to extraordinary measures that do little to affect quality of life or health. And I agree that people need to talk about what they would want with loved ones and doctors before things get bad, if at all possible. But the notion that people should be "put down" if someone else decides (no matter how lovingly) that their quality of life is seriously suffering is absolutely chilling to me. Maybe I misunderstood your point?

[sarahmama]

I expect that I will do whatever is easiest for my kids.

 

This is what is so difficult with discussing these things with my parents and in-laws. My MIL has said that she would not move in with us, but she would expect weekly visits in a nursing home near her current house 4.5 hours drive away. It would be far easier to have her live with us than to have to make a 9 hour round trip weekly. My brother still lives near my parents so as long as they didn't need medical care, I would imagine most of their care would fall on him. Related to that if one child does more of the end of life care, whether in home or through being the biggest visitor in the nursing home, they should receive a larger share of the inheritance.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cindy in FL.]

Major cultural disconnect here!

 

For my Dh and his family the expectation is VERY much that we will take care of elderly parents and our kids will take care of us.

 

It is ingrained and a regular part of conversations about the future.

 

I have to say, I greatly appreciate that if and when the time comes for me to take care of my parents I know Dh will completely be in agreement with having them with us.

 

I also appreciate that my kids don't look at growing up without also thinking about the responsibilities we all have towards each other.  That is how we view being part of a family unit.

  

There are a lot of questions in the OP, and I think some of them are rhetorical.

 

But yes, if Lord willing I get to be old and weak--and JUST old and weak--then yes. Absolutely I want and expect my kids to help me. Edit; I expect them to help me and NOT put me in a home.

 

If I get old and SICK....and need extensive, nearly round the clock care, such as needing to be rolled over every three hours til I die? That's a whole other ball of wax right. Cross that bridge if we come to it, and oh man oh man I hope we do not.

  

I wouldn't expect them to take care of me but multigenerational living is somewhat normative in our family culture. When the time comes, I anticipate my father will live with us until/if he needs round the clock skilled care. We are planing to buy a house with a MIL set up for him. Many of my aging aunts uncles live with their adult children. But it's not really a burden. One uncle, for example, helps out a lot with his disabled grandchild and the modest rent he pays is one reason why his daugher and her family were able to buy their first house.. When my father lived with us previously, he was providing much needed childcare support. We had my mother living with us from the time she had her last surgery until it was time for hospice. I cherish that time we had together.

That said, I see my husband and I being more likely to move into a small apartment or something. I'd only live with one of my sons if they wanted me too, if we lived in the same state, and if it was a mutually satisfactory arrangement with some privacy for all.

I agree with these posts. I would expect my children to care for me until I needed medical care beyond their abilities. This is what we've done with elderly relatives. I wouldn't want/don't think it should be considered a burden until it actually becomes burdensome.

[creekland]

I agree that people today often resort to extraordinary measures that do little to affect quality of life or health. And I agree that people need to talk about what they would want with loved ones and doctors before things get bad, if at all possible. But the notion that people should be "put down" if someone else decides (no matter how lovingly) that their quality of life is seriously suffering is absolutely chilling to me. Maybe I misunderstood your point?

 

Perhaps.  It's difficult to tell.

 

I have no desire to ever live (permanently) in a situation where someone needs to be feeding me and/or changing me.  If I'm of a sound mind, I can and will make that decision myself before it reaches that stage.  If it were to come as part of some sort of car accident, etc, or descent into Alzheimers, someone would need to make that decision for me, but they already know my wishes.  We've discussed it - more than once.

 

I know hubby wouldn't want someone ending his life, but wants no special effort made to sustain life at the end either.

 

I think everyone needs to think through these things themselves and make their wishes known and I wish society would allow folks to make all of these decisions themselves.  We're getting closer to that.

 

If someone reaches a stage where they can't make their decision known and they have no advanced directive, that's when it's tough and perhaps it's better to default to extending life.  I'm not entirely convinced that's the best default, but that could be colored by my own feelings regarding myself.

 

As laws currently stand, I would not expect hubby or anyone close to me to end my life because that would mean putting their own freedom in jeopardy.  It shouldn't be that way, but it is.  If a gradual decline, I'd have to figure out when enough is enough earlier than would be necessary.  If a sudden one, I'd be forced to suffer.   :cursing:

 

My grandmother was forced to suffer for 3 years after she fell and broke her hip and was put into a nursing home - continually asking why they wouldn't let her just die once she figured out she was never returning home.  It was miserable listening to that question and watching her suffer endlessly knowing there was no hope for a better return to life.  Her mind went downhill as well as her body.

 

It was that experience that solidified my own and helped my guys understand and agree with my views (for myself).  Middle son is now volunteering with Hospice partially because of that and wanting to help folks have a better end to their lives when that time comes.  No one in my family wants extra steps taken to prolong life.  I'm different that I want to have mine ended sooner (similar to what my grandma wanted), but that's it.  Youngest might agree with me.  He hasn't said one way or the other yet, but he tends to think more like me.  Nothing about those 3 years were good for my grandma.  She was of sound mind when she first made her wishes known and never varied from it even as she mentally declined.  There was no reason anyone had to "wait it out."  It helped no one.

 

But no, I'm not saying anyone in her position should automatically be put to death.  Just where there's personal desire for that to be the way to end life.

[Um_2_4]

I find this interesting. Where we will most likely end up living in a few years, there are no nursing homes. It is cheap to hire a nurse or doctor (yes an actual nurse or dr, not an aid or the like) to provide medical care in home, so most elderly will stay with family (most never leave, unmarried kids still at home and usually if all are married one will move in with parents after marriage to the family home) and have medical staff for things like treatments/medication, bathing, toileting and family is there for meal time, companionship.

We will most likely end up with MIL(74) living with us, right now she lives alone quite well and has a huge social circle and is very active. FIL is remarried and his wife is much younger (25+ years) so she is now caring for him (severe diabetes complications) and expect that will continue, we just provide $ support. Even with dementia, parents are usually kept home and a 24 hr aid is brought in to live there.

I expect my kids will continue this and currently the kids argue (good natured-ly) over whose house I will stay in. Each tried to tempt me with an "irresistible" offer (so far kittens, chocolate on my pillow, a private library, grand babies to teach, etc.) :lol: Man do they know me: chocolate, babies, kittens and books. :laugh:

I just hope I live long enough to enjoy it.

My families personal experience is with grandparents dying youngish( 60-75) and quickly(stroke and lymphoma that went downhill fast- 6 weeks) in their own homes, but I did provide end of life care for my parents in my late teens -early 20s (we had in home aides for medical stuff and hospice at the end). My parents died young-ish (65 and 57) and I was a late in life baby, so I think we may see this scenario more as parents delay child bearing. Doing that while in college was tough.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Um_2_4

[Lady Florida.]

Absolutely not. If at some point if I outlive dh and I'm able to care for myself but not live alone, I'd like to move in with ds (and family if he has one), but only if it's agreeable to all of us. If I need medical care I would in no way expect to live with him.

 

I watched my in-laws take care of their mothers and saw how difficult it was. Both lived to advanced ages. FIL's mother came to live with them for a while, but as dementia took hold of her it became too difficult and they ended up having to put her in a nursing home. She died at age 96. MIL's mother refused to leave Tennessee so they spent years driving back and forth from Florida to check on her, stay with her for a week or so, take care of things around the house, etc. Neither of MIL's other two siblings were still alive though some of their adult children were helpful. She had no relatives left in her little mountain town, so anyone who came to help her had to travel. IL's hired someone to come in every day, and eventually had a nurse come in several times a week as well. The traveling became too much for them, and she couldn't live alone anymore with just someone coming in daily, so she too ended up in a nursing home. She died two months after her 103rd birthday. 

 

Even if I don't live that long, I would not expect ds (and potential future ddil) to take care of me if I'm unable to take care of myself.

 

I have Being Mortal on my to-read list after it was highly recommended on the Book a Week threads.

[clementine]

My goal:  

 

When we are no longer able to take care of ourselves or our home, I want our kids to put us in a lovely assisted living facility.  When we moved my MIL into hers, she was sad at the thought at first, but with 3 wonderful meals per day, housekeeping once a week, and everything she needs inside her building, she is happy.  She is well taken care of and can have as much/little intervention as she wants.  Sign me up.  

Edited February 16, 2016 by clementine

[shawthorne44]

I find this interesting. Where we will most likely end up living in a few years, there are no nursing homes. It is cheap to hire a nurse or doctor (yes an actual nurse or dr, not an aid or the like) to provide medical care in home, so most elderly will stay with family (most never leave, unmarried kids still at home and usually if all are married one will move in with parents after marriage to the family home) and have medical staff for things like treatments/medication, bathing, toileting and family is there for meal time, companionship....

 

My impression is that in the past, when the 'kids' were taking care of their parents.  It was the kid's living in the house of the elderly parents.  Like you mention here.   Instead of now when the kids move away, buy their own house and then are expected to provide for their parents and their own elderly years.

 

My maternal grandparents lived in her families home until they retired themselves.   I observed that never having to pay a mortgage had HUGE financial benefits to them.   My mother grew up with her maternal grandfather in the house and has many fond memories.   Even though my grandfather was blue-collar, there was money for hospital and nursing care.   

[ocelotmom]

I work in a nursing home. Some people truly require 24 hour care that is physically and emotionally stressful even for trained caregivers in good physical condition who are not related and get to go home at the end of their shift, have days off, etc. They may need to be changed/repositioned every few hours, which may require 2 (and sometimes more) people to do safely for both the patient and caregiver. They may need constant supervision in order to keep safe. They may be combative. They may need a level of personal care that is not comfortable for either patient or caregiver given the individual family dynamics.

 

I don't see it being a point of pride to keep someone at home if their needs exceed your ability to care for them.  

 

Sometimes moving into a facility allows the individual to maintain a level of independence and autonomy that they would not have living with family. With many families so geographically separated, it may let them stay within their own community and maintain their existing relationships.

 

I'm not trying to argue in favor of putting family members in a nursing home. Just that you can't make blanket statements. I agree with the OP - you can't compare keeping mom who needs just a little physical assistance at home to someone who needs total care 24/7 for years on end. 

[Hilltopmom]

No.

I provide 24/7 medical care for one of our children currently- trach, oxygen, seizures, non verbal, non mobile, constant repositioning & suctioning to keep airway clear, etc.

 

I do not expect or want my kids to do that for me. Absolutely not.

 

Well, I don't want any of those interventions anyways, but if for some reason, I wind up needing care, put me somewhere where people get paid to come do it daily in shifts & those people get breaks, days off, vacations, etc.

 

I do not want my kids to have to give up their lives (& their kids lives- because you can't stay home to care for grandma & take the kids to dance, the beach, or play dates at the same time) to care for me.

 

The problem with " just hiring" in home caregivers, is that it's not easy. Where we live (rural area), no nursing agencies or places like that exist to come in & care for anyone. You can hire your own nurse if you can find one. Try to find one to work night so that you can sleep, or weekends so you can take your children to a party, or away for a weekend activity. Nope, not happening.

[Annie G]

No. My dad still feels guilt that he had to put his mom in a nursing home but she was wandering and legally blind and he and my mom had to work full time.  She needed more care than they could give him.   My dad is now 84 and independent but my sister does do a lot to keep him active and happy.  But if he needed real care, he wouldn't expect her to quit her job to provide it. 

 

If I was just old and needed to live with someone (and could pay my share of expenses) then sure, I might want one of my kids to take me in. But if I needed serious care like a dementia patient needs, then no, I do not expect or want my kids to be burdened with that. 

[Lady Florida.]

My impression is that in the past, when the 'kids' were taking care of their parents.  It was the kid's living in the house of the elderly parents.  Like you mention here.   Instead of now when the kids move away, buy their own house and then are expected to provide for their parents and their own elderly years.

 

 

 

Dh and I were just talking about this yesterday. His dad called him and said he's considering selling off some of his assets. He has several Highwaymen paintings he bought when they were cheap roadside paintings, and are worth quite a bit now. He also has some coin collections and antique guns worth a fair amount. He's planning to use some of the money to enjoy his final years and put some aside to be left in his will. He also plans to rewrite his will and is trying to decide what to do with his house. Dh told him it's his money, his house, and he'll support him in whatever he decides. I think he knew dh (sort of middle child, if there can be a middle child with 4 kids) was the one of his offspring who would support him and not try to talk him into or out of anything. There will likely be fallout from his oldest brother and from his sister, the youngest. He and his other brother (2 years older than dh) will be more easygoing and support whatever FIL decides to do.

 

Anyway, after he hung up with FIL we were talking about the house and how we don't expect it to be left to any of us, nor do we feel entitled to any money from the sale of it. We got on the subject of how different things once were, and that a family house or homestead was usually one with several generations living in it. This isn't even the house dh and his siblings grew up in, since MIL and FIL downsized after all the kids left. 

 

I don't think adult children should be expected to provide for their parents, but I also don't think parents are required to leave anything to their adult children in a will. If they want to that's one thing, but it shouldn't be expected. <---- I mean that last sentence to apply to both situations.

[Slojo]

I don't have this expectation, but I understand culturally and historically why families do, and could see a scenario where I was in decent health but perhaps just "up there in age" where it just felt uncomfortable for everyone involved that I was living alone. For a large number of families the reality of having high quality nursing facilities in which to place their parents is a fairly recent option - and it's still out of range for many, many families. 

 

There's a lot of "grandma's really not up to living on her own anymore, but is in decent health given her age" scenarios. My own grandparents live with my parents and sister. There is some help during the week that's available and now that we moved back to my childhood hometown, there's more reinforcements for my sister especially (she moved back in because not only my grandparents, but my parents were experiencing health challenges -- and she's a much younger "body" to just make sure things are managed). 

 

I imagine my kids (and I) will have more options to feel good about the care I might receive in a nursing home than my grandparents did (and most certainly my great grandparents -- where did elderly African Americans living in the south have to go when they were aged -- umm, nowhere). Nursing homes are changing, and are less of a "putting the elders away" type environment than perhaps they were in the past. So, I don't have an expectation, though, if I'm in decent health and just need the companionship/"someone watching out for me," and can contribute to the household, maybe I would, for a time, live with one of my adult children. But if I had extreme nursing needs, then, no - I wouldn't expect to live with them. 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2016 by Slojo

[Guest]

I promised my late sister on her deathbed that I would never put Mom or Dad in a nursing home no matter what.

 

Mom and Dad felt differently.

 

Dad moved into a retirement community last year and Mom is in the process of moving into hers.

 

Both of them will be able to transition to assisted living when the time comes without leaving their apartments.

 

It works for us.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Guest

[Lady Florida.]

I don't have this expectation, but I understand culturally and historically why families do, and could see a scenario where I was in decent health but perhaps just "up there in age" where it just felt uncomfortable for everyone involved that I was living alone. For a large number of families the reality of having high quality nursing facilities in which to place their parents is a fairly recent option - and it's still out of range for many, many families. 

 

There's a lot of "grandma's really not up to living on her own anymore, but is in decent health given her age" scenarios. My own grandparents live with my parents and sister. There is some help during the week that's available and now that we moved back to my childhood hometown, there's more reinforcements for my sister especially (she moved back in because not only my grandparents, but my parents were experiencing health challenges -- and she's a much younger "body" to just make sure things are managed). 

 

 

 

My grandmother lived with my mother, though the medical care she needed wasn't difficult to provide. She did have nurse who came to the house weekly.

 

My mother used to beg me to never put her in a nursing home. Had she lived long enough to not be able to live alone safely, I would have tried my best to honor her request. However, if her medical situation reached a point where dh and I could no longer handle it, or if it was safer for her to have round the clock care by medical professionals, I would have had to go back on my promise. I would have felt sad for having to do it even if I knew it was the right thing. 

 

I agree with your comment about decent, affordable nursing home care. It's not an easy thing to find for most families. In the case of both of dh's grandmothers (I posted about them upthread), they had to liquidate some of each grandmother's assets in order for them to qualify for a decent place. Some nursing homes require you to sign over all of your property and money. 

Edited February 16, 2016 by Lady Florida

[Joules]

 

 

My mom told me what scares her the most is losing the way she lives her life. She watches tv. And I mean all day. She adores movies, history shows, news programs. She does puzzles or plays on her computer sometimes but she always has the tv on. A few new assisted living places have opened up in her area and she thinks they look really nice. She got a brochure from one and the fine print at the bottom said the rooms did not have phone or tv. Mom said to never, never put her into a home where she can control what she watches on tv in her own room.

 

 

To make your grandma feel better: I have visited LOTS of these places in the last three months.  They mean that they are not *providing* the TV or phone that you see in the picture, as in "It is not included in the cost."  Every single one of them will allow you to bring your own TV and telephone and you can pay for cable, phone service, internet service or whatever you want direct from Comcast, AT&T, etc.  

 

It's just their way of saying that utilities are included except for phone and cable.

 

I have yet to see one that does not allow TVs and telephones (and would not consider having my relative live in such a thing!)

[Laura Corin]

Several people have talked about safety. I don't see that as the most important thing.

 

Atul Gawande talks about a facility that allowed residents to walk around, even though they have a risk of falling, if that's important to them.

 

Safety often matters more to the children and the insurance company than it does to the individual. Safety to.... Sit in a wheelchair for an extra few years, increasingly infirm and dependent?

Edited February 16, 2016 by Laura Corin

[shawthorne44]

I just remembered something a friend at work told me.  His mother is caring for his grandmother who is elderly.   The elderly grandmother fell and broke something.   She been doing pretty well before that, and there hadn't been any other problems like that before.   She hadn't needed much care, just someone to be there, take care of the grocery shopping, bill paying, laundry, driving etc.  My friend's mother was told that she had to get her mother into assisted living or a home of some sort because if his grandmother fell again in the mother's home, his mother would be charged with elderly neglect.  

 

[HS Mom in NC]

I helped care for my maternal grandparents who were living with my mother at the end of their lives.  Our goal was to provide as much care at home as possible as long as possible.  For Grandad, with leukemia, it was possible to keep him home with the help of a nurse coming in daily until he died.  With Grandmother who had Alzheimer's, she spent two years at mom's until her stroke and she spent the last month at in the hospital for a few days and then 3 and a half weeks at a hospice facility where there were relatives cycling in and out so a relative was with her at all times. The kind of care she needed required a nurse many times throughout the day and night. 

So, no.  From experience I can see that some situations make it impossible to provide the kind of medical care necessary with just family members.  I don't think people should ignore their responsibilities to parents and automatically put them in a home because elder care is a lot of work, but neither should they ignore the fact that there are times being in a facility is the best thing for the patient.

Also, there's nothing wrong with assisted living.  Some older people prefer assisted living and their wishes should be respected. My crazy Great Aunt Vivian enjoyed her assisted living experience. She was always the party girl and she enjoyed all the activities and entertainments her facility provided until the very end when she needed round the clock medical care. 

Let's be realistic about cost.  If you want a place to provide food, shelter and medical staff 24/7/365, it's going to cost you. Construction companies don't build facilities for free.  Facility staff doesn't work for free.  Stores don't donate food to facilities for free. That's why my Baby Boomer parents have been paying an insurance policy for that kind of thing for years now.  We all know we're going to get old.  We all know most of us will get sick at the end of life-often for years.  They know it may be beyond the abilities of their children to provide adequate medical care in home, so they're making plans for it now. 

[Guest]

I just remembered something a friend at work told me.  His mother is caring for his grandmother who is elderly.   The elderly grandmother fell and broke something.   She been doing pretty well before that, and there hadn't been any other problems like that before.   She hadn't needed much care, just someone to be there, take care of the grocery shopping, bill paying, laundry, driving etc.  My friend's mother was told that she had to get her mother into assisted living or a home of some sort because if his grandmother fell again in the mother's home, his mother would be charged with elderly neglect.  

 

Who said that?