so, how hard is it to move to Canada?

[J-rap]

You should look into Costa Rica.  They speak English, it's cheap living, easy to buy citizenship, and a common place for Americans to retire to.  It's warm, tropical, and relaxed.  They have high speed internet.

 

I've also heard good things about a few places in the Caribbean and Panama, but none of them seemed as easy as Costa Rica.  I'd probably wait until kiddos are adults though, as to not overly complicate their lives.

 

We absolutely love Costa Rica!  We've lived there half-time for the past three years. 

 

Given that though, the majority (outside of major tourist areas) don't speak English.  Sometimes the younger people will want to try and practice it so they are more eager to try.  There is also a lot of petty crime (far more than anywhere else I have ever been).  So much so that nearly every house and every store has metal gates over their doors and windows.  All apartment complexes have guards.  You cannot park your car on the streets at night unless it's in a gated area.  Otherwise, you park it in a community parking lot with guards.  (Because of crime.)  In smaller, more remote towns it is probably different.  My dd and her husband have been held up and robbed several times.  (They live there.)  Driving in the capital city is a nightmare.  There is one main nice tourist highway now which was built not too long ago and takes you to the Pacific coast much more quickly.  On the other hand, there can be a mudslide which could close the road for a day!  But apart from that, driving is more restrictive than here.  The overall system will drive you nuts at times -- it is far less efficient than here.  Most people do not have addresses so do not get mail, offices might or might not be open, things like that. 

 

But if you come in as a wealthy American and can afford it, you can buy a beautiful home outside of San Jose and live in a lovely gated area which is probably much less expensive than what you would pay in similar areas in the U.S.  It is a gorgeous country outside of San Jose and the people there are gentle and almost old-style polite.  The food is cheap as long as you don't expect typical American food (which is imported and twice as expensive there as here).  Things like cars and appliances and furniture are much more expensive there than here (I suppose because they're imported). 

 

They haven't had a standing army in over 50 years!  Their private medical system (different than their public government system) is superb, as is their dental.

 

So as in every place, there are pros and cons.  :)

 

[Frances]

Have you heard that CO may have a ballot measure to get universal healthcare for the state? We loved, loved, loved our time in Ft Collins. If you decide to stay in the US, I'd suggest looking at college towns, even small ones, in blue states.

[La Condessa]

Ok, so maybe the UK?

 

I THINK I'm less scared of cold than I am of gloom and lack of sunlight. That really does give me pause. I'm a sun lover. Not heat, but sunshine. I have been to Wisconsin, in September. That might be the most cold I've dealt with :)

 

(it was actually lovely there, a bit of snow, and crisp.But that's a dry cold.)

Definitely plan some extended visits before committing to a new climate.

 

I grew up a San Diego girl, then lived a couple of years in Utah, three in Portland, OR, and now in southern coastal OR. To my surprise, winter in Utah with fairly heavy snow was the easiest for me to handle. I am a sun lover, too, and now know that I struggle with seasonal affective disorder. Portland isn't very cold at all, really, but winter there was a nightmare. The whole world turns gray and dead and stays that way for months. Where we live now has the best possible climate for me in the coastal Pacific Northwest, but I still have some tough days here and there.

[Carol in Cal.]

Definitely plan some extended visits before committing to a new climate.

 

I grew up a San Diego girl, then lived a couple of years in Utah, three in Portland, OR, and now in southern coastal OR. To my surprise, winter in Utah with fairly heavy snow was the easiest for me to handle. I am a sun lover, too, and now know that I struggle with seasonal affective disorder. Portland isn't very cold at all, really, but winter there was a nightmare. The whole world turns gray and dead and stays that way for months. Where we live now has the best possible climate for me in the coastal Pacific Northwest, but I still have some tough days here and there.

Eureka is even grayer.  I love the mild temps there, and the gorgeous Victorians, and the seafood, and the nice people, and the redwoods; so much that I seriously considered planning to retire there, but OMGosh the gray, sullen sky.  I like clouds, and storms, and all kinds of dynamic skies whether they are sunny or not, and I'm not a sun worshipper (I burn too easily for that) but that relentless, high grayness that is more like a ceiling than like weather--that I do find depressing.

 

Something I noticed in Vermont, too, was that once you're inside, you're more consistently comfortable than in the warm states because the houses and stores are built so tightly to keep out drafts.  It's really interesting.

[ktgrok]

Have you heard that CO may have a ballot measure to get universal healthcare for the state? We loved, loved, loved our time in Ft Collins. If you decide to stay in the US, I'd suggest looking at college towns, even small ones, in blue states.

I hadn't heard that! If so, I'd seriously consider that. I have a friend in CO and the photos she posts are gorgeous.

[Guest]

Not immune, no where is, but they sure have a lot less of gun violence. Both per capita and overall.

I'm not posting this to be argumentative, but as a point of information. Disregard if it doesn't matter to your cost benefit analysis :)

 

To balance that out a bit, you're more likely to be knifed in Canada and live than be shot in the US and die. Gun crime isn't the only crime per capita and violent crime rates matter.

 

US: 367.9 violent crimes per 100k people

Canada: 930 per 100k people

 

http://time.com/3577026/crime-rates-drop-1970s/

http://www.thefreeradical.ca/Violent_crime_in_Canada_fact_sheet.pdf

 

If you really want or need to move that's fine - but don't expect to find some corner of the world where people aren't still inherently people. The media culture we live in can distort the reality of events and make us lose perspective. It's not as hopeless as if sometimes seems, even with gun violence:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/03/weve-had-a-massive-decline-in-gun-violence-in-the-united-states-heres-why/?tid=sm_tw

 

And if you move I'm still recommending Bermuda :D

Edited December 4, 2015 by Arctic Mama

[MistyMountain]

I looked into the process seriously a while ago. My dh was one of the skilled worker occupations that you could apply for. The thing that was the hardest was that it was a 2 year process at the time from the US and they have a cap for occupations. I was worried the cap would be reached. It also sounded like it would be hard to find a job as an outsider. You had to have a certain amount of money saved and it was a costly process. We wanted to move at the time anyway so it would mean more then one move since the process was so long. I almost wish we did do it but a local job opened up and we did not end up starting the process. We were talking about moving the other day and asked the kids where they would like to move and my ds said Canada. I agreed that I would love to move to Canada. I would love to live in a different country that fits my views better but it is not an easy process by any means. When people say pack up and move if you do not like things about your country it is not something that you can do easily.

 

I am not worried about winters. I survived worse at higher latitudes then the areas we were thinking of going to.

Edited December 4, 2015 by MistyMountain

[SeaConquest]

Definitely plan some extended visits before committing to a new climate.

 

I grew up a San Diego girl, then lived a couple of years in Utah, three in Portland, OR, and now in southern coastal OR. To my surprise, winter in Utah with fairly heavy snow was the easiest for me to handle. I am a sun lover, too, and now know that I struggle with seasonal affective disorder. Portland isn't very cold at all, really, but winter there was a nightmare. The whole world turns gray and dead and stays that way for months. Where we live now has the best possible climate for me in the coastal Pacific Northwest, but I still have some tough days here and there.

 

That's why we are considering buying a house in Bend, OR. I can do snowish, but not gray, gray, gray.

 

K, have you thought about the Virgin Islands?

[Arcadia]

It makes Canadian winters sound imaginary.

Melbourne and Sydney's winter temperatures looks doable. Hubby's relatives are city folks.

 

DS9 may want to go to Philip Island for penguins while I am interested in Great Barrier Reef. Hubby would be happy with any opera house. We are supposed to visit his relatives, no dates though.

[Rosie_0801]

Melbourne and Sydney's winter temperatures looks doable. Hubby's relatives are city folks.

 

DS9 may want to go to Philip Island for penguins while I am interested in Great Barrier Reef. Hubby would be happy with any opera house. We are supposed to visit his relatives, no dates though.

 

Winter temperatures anywhere in the country are better than Canada, I can tell you that.  :laugh:

 

 

Melbourne is a much nicer city than Sydney, as everyone but Sydneysiders know. :D  Housing prices are evil pretty much everywhere.

 

The penguin parade at Philip island is certainly worth a look if you're in the vicinity. :)

[waa510]

Have you considered Guam? It's got a lower cost of living than HI but still a U.S. territory so no-language barrier. 

[Sneezyone]

Aside from the HCOL, Hawaii is a dream. Friendly people, laid back dress, sensible policies (with the exception of transportation and homelessness), and great weather. I've seriously considered AUS tho. DH and I enjoyed our visit to Sydney and would like to return.

[Audrey]

DH is an information security engineer, aka cyber security, which seems to be on the list for skilled workers. I'm not ready to pull the trigger yet, and I don't want to move far from my parents, but it may eventually come to it. I'm not sure I can live in this country the way it is currently shaping up and stay sane. 

 

So...how hard would it be for a family like ours to move across the border? How expensive? What's the cost of living like comparatively? I'm in the Orlando, FL area for perspective. 

 

Depending on where you will live, it probably won't be more expensive than Orlando.  Maybe Vancouver area or Toronto might be comparable to Orlando.

 

As for how hard? If he has a job offer, his employer will fill out some paperwork to sponsor him.  He has to file to bring you all along.  You usually do that from your home country.  Here is the CIC website. http://www.cic.gc.ca/EnGLIsh/immigrate/index.asp

 

I you just want to come to live temporarily, that is one stream.  If you're looking to apply for permanent residency, that may take longer.  It isn't particularly difficult (if your dh has employment here), but it is a paperwork hassle -- no less so than it probably should be, I suppose. 

[Lady Florida.]

If you've never experienced real winter, it can do a number on you. I grew up with real, snowy winters. I live in MD now and their winters aren't brutal compared to further north. I've NEVER 'gotten used' to it. The cold is bad, but the dark is worse. The sun set before 5 p.m. today and I think it's still technically fall.

 

Even if you have experienced winter, it can be hard to go back. I was born and lived the first 13 years of my life in NJ, but I couldn't live there again. A few days of winter weather and I'm ready to come back to Florida. Katie, as a lifelong Floridian, I think it will be much harder than you realize to adjust to the cold. A cold that lasts all day and goes on for months. And the dark as well. 

Edited December 5, 2015 by Lady Florida

[Guest]

This is a picture I just took outside my dining room window at 10 am:

 

It will get a little brighter until solar noon at 2 pm, but not by much. I'm not even that far north as this state goes. Most people leave this place because of the weather and light issues, not people or access or cost. You're hearing people even in Washington and New England complain about the dark and it only gets worse the further north and more coastal you are. Rosie's suggestion of Melbourne isn't actually a bad one. Or have you considered somewhere like Malta or Spain? Brazil? Trade offs everywhere but they may suit your tastes and don't have the further north climate issues.

 

In winter at home I never see direct sun, I'm on the north side of a hill and it just stays too low below the horizon unless I'm out of the house. Norway has similar issues, as does the northern parts of the Canadian provinces. I'd mark places like these off your list wholesale if my window view isn't your cup of tea ;)

[KungFuPanda]

I wouldn't make a move based upon fear. It's probably easier to find a US job with health insurance than it is to become a Canadian citizen. Also, where gun violence is concerned, your greatest risk of being shot comes from people you know. I assume you're taking your family with you, so your risk moves with you. If you sort for other risk factors, you might find no statistical difference for YOU if you move. If you're not in your late teens-early twenties, and you're not male, and you're not black, your risk is different. If you're middle class, your risk is different. If you're not buying drugs your risk is different.

 

Reading the statistics, I should be terrified to go into Baltimore. I'm not. The personal risk I assume when I go to the symphony at night, and even walk to dinner afterwards is so low that the drive to get there is the most dangerous part. However, it's not the most interesting or sensational part, so traffic accident statistics just aren't the stuff our morbid imaginations fixate on.

 

If you want to escape gun CULTURE and the trappings of 'Murica, there are loads of places in the US where you can move. Not that Canada isn't wonderful in it's own way, but moving there is bound to be more successful if you are moving towards something and not running away from misleading statistics. The US is huge. The statistics are shocking. I'm sure if you draw a circle on a map of Europe that covers the same amount of land, you'll get some shocking statistics there too. I mean the distance from Syria to Sweden is about the same as the distance from Baltimore to Portland. It's probably not the best idea to make major life decisions because the news scared you.

[MEmama]

Depending on where you will live, it probably won't be more expensive than Orlando. Maybe Vancouver area or Toronto might be comparable to Orlando.

 

As for how hard? If he has a job offer, his employer will fill out some paperwork to sponsor him. He has to file to bring you all along. You usually do that from your home country. Here is the CIC website. http://www.cic.gc.ca/EnGLIsh/immigrate/index.asp

 

I you just want to come to live temporarily, that is one stream. If you're looking to apply for permanent residency, that may take longer. It isn't particularly difficult (if your dh has employment here), but it is a paperwork hassle -- no less so than it probably should be, I suppose.

It is VERY difficult to get employment there as an American. YMMV and of course everyone has their own experiences, but in general Canadian companies are extremely reluctant to hire internationally (I'd imagine the IT sector might be an exception, also in the few major cities). It is terribly expensive for them to go through all the red tape of hiring from outside the country, get the applicant a workers via, etc. You would have to be in very high demand, and their own labor pool very slim.

 

Most commonly one must secure their permanent residency first, before a company will even look at your CV. Even then, they must PROVE that there are NO Canadian citizens able to perform the job. That my DH was able to land a government job soon after getting our PR said more about the labor force than anything else. They were quite dipleased to have an American onboard, a fact he had to live with every day.

 

Of course there are exceptions and various ways of acquiring employment, but it really is not typically a simple process.

[livetoread]

I'm not posting this to be argumentative, but as a point of information. Disregard if it doesn't matter to your cost benefit analysis :)

 

To balance that out a bit, you're more likely to be knifed in Canada and live than be shot in the US and die. Gun crime isn't the only crime per capita and violent crime rates matter.

 

US: 367.9 violent crimes per 100k people

Canada: 930 per 100k people

 

http://time.com/3577026/crime-rates-drop-1970s/

http://www.thefreeradical.ca/Violent_crime_in_Canada_fact_sheet.pdf

 

If you really want or need to move that's fine - but don't expect to find some corner of the world where people aren't still inherently people. The media culture we live in can distort the reality of events and make us lose perspective. It's not as hopeless as if sometimes seems, even with gun violence:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/03/weve-had-a-massive-decline-in-gun-violence-in-the-united-states-heres-why/?tid=sm_tw

 

And if you move I'm still recommending Bermuda :D

I find it really, really hard to believe that Canada has close to three times the rate of violent crime per 100k that the US does. Is that believable to you? I followed your links, but they didn't help me understand. Are they comparing different time periods? Labeling it differently? I don't know, but I can't get my head around that statistic.

[ktgrok]

I wouldn't make a move based upon fear. It's probably easier to find a US job with health insurance than it is to become a Canadian citizen. Also, where gun violence is concerned, your greatest risk of being shot comes from people you know. I assume you're taking your family with you, so your risk moves with you. If you sort for other risk factors, you might find no statistical difference for YOU if you move. If you're not in your late teens-early twenties, and you're not male, and you're not black, your risk is different. If you're middle class, your risk is different. If you're not buying drugs your risk is different.

 

Reading the statistics, I should be terrified to go into Baltimore. I'm not. The personal risk I assume when I go to the symphony at night, and even walk to dinner afterwards is so low that the drive to get there is the most dangerous part. However, it's not the most interesting or sensational part, so traffic accident statistics just aren't the stuff our morbid imaginations fixate on.

 

If you want to escape gun CULTURE and the trappings of 'Murica, there are loads of places in the US where you can move. Not that Canada isn't wonderful in it's own way, but moving there is bound to be more successful if you are moving towards something and not running away from misleading statistics. The US is huge. The statistics are shocking. I'm sure if you draw a circle on a map of Europe that covers the same amount of land, you'll get some shocking statistics there too. I mean the distance from Syria to Sweden is about the same as the distance from Baltimore to Portland. It's probably not the best idea to make major life decisions because the news scared you.

 Some good points. I'm not upset about my own insurance (actually, I am, but we can afford it.) And I'm not worried about being shot, particularly. I'm upset that other people in this country don't prioritize health for everyone, and that it isn't seen as a right. And I'm upset not by guns, or fear of me being shot, but by yes, the gun culture I guess. By the fact that these things keep happening and nothing seems possible to fix it. Does that make sense? 

 

Maybe the real answer, vs the perfect answer (which it seems doesn't exist) is to find a place inside the USA that meets what I'm looking for at least locally. I'm just so tired of it all, and honestly, angry and embarrassed by my country with regards to things like this. And I'm starting to feel like it can't change. That it won't change. 

 

I see the attitude of boardies here from other countries, and how they feel about these issues reflects how I feel. I've always felt I could stay and vote to change things, lobby to change things. But lately I'm feeling hopeless about it. 

 

The real answer I guess is to keep being active politically, raise my kids to be the kinds of people I want to see in the world, and have faith. To keep an eye out for the long term, vs short term. 

 

What's funny is that I am this upset and yet I do have health insurance, medical care that is excellent, and we even own guns! So I don't feel I'm an extremist, but I'm just so disheartened. 

[8circles]

 Some good points. I'm not upset about my own insurance (actually, I am, but we can afford it.) And I'm not worried about being shot, particularly. I'm upset that other people in this country don't prioritize health for everyone, and that it isn't seen as a right. And I'm upset not by guns, or fear of me being shot, but by yes, the gun culture I guess. By the fact that these things keep happening and nothing seems possible to fix it. Does that make sense? 

 

Maybe the real answer, vs the perfect answer (which it seems doesn't exist) is to find a place inside the USA that meets what I'm looking for at least locally. I'm just so tired of it all, and honestly, angry and embarrassed by my country with regards to things like this. And I'm starting to feel like it can't change. That it won't change. 

 

I see the attitude of boardies here from other countries, and how they feel about these issues reflects how I feel. I've always felt I could stay and vote to change things, lobby to change things. But lately I'm feeling hopeless about it. 

 

The real answer I guess is to keep being active politically, raise my kids to be the kinds of people I want to see in the world, and have faith. To keep an eye out for the long term, vs short term. 

 

What's funny is that I am this upset and yet I do have health insurance, medical care that is excellent, and we even own guns! So I don't feel I'm an extremist, but I'm just so disheartened. 

 

ktgrok, I hear you.  I share your concerns and have no idea where such a place exists in the US.  Maybe that should be the next S/O.

 

I have always appreciated your posts in gun-related threads.  You have guns and not only do you have common sense & take gun seriously, you also understand gun culture and realize that owning a gun =/= contributing to gun culture.   

[Audrey]

It is VERY difficult to get employment there as an American. YMMV and of course everyone has their own experiences, but in general Canadian companies are extremely reluctant to hire internationally (I'd imagine the IT sector might be an exception, also in the few major cities). It is terribly expensive for them to go through all the red tape of hiring from outside the country, get the applicant a workers via, etc. You would have to be in very high demand, and their own labor pool very slim.

 

Most commonly one must secure their permanent residency first, before a company will even look at your CV. Even then, they must PROVE that there are NO Canadian citizens able to perform the job. That my DH was able to land a government job soon after getting our PR said more about the labor force than anything else. They were quite dipleased to have an American onboard, a fact he had to live with every day.

 

Of course there are exceptions and various ways of acquiring employment, but it really is not typically a simple process.

Not arguing with you.  I read the OP as saying her husband already had job prospects here.  He is in a high demand field.  In my region, it isn't hard for foreign workers to get job offers from companies in certain fields.  IT is one, industrial mechanics and industrial electricians are a couple more.  There are companies (mostly in skilled manufacturing) who actively recruit outside the country.  It all depends on your field and the companies involved.

[Guest]

Some good points. I'm not upset about my own insurance (actually, I am, but we can afford it.) And I'm not worried about being shot, particularly. I'm upset that other people in this country don't prioritize health for everyone, and that it isn't seen as a right. And I'm upset not by guns, or fear of me being shot, but by yes, the gun culture I guess. By the fact that these things keep happening and nothing seems possible to fix it. Does that make sense?

 

Maybe the real answer, vs the perfect answer (which it seems doesn't exist) is to find a place inside the USA that meets what I'm looking for at least locally. I'm just so tired of it all, and honestly, angry and embarrassed by my country with regards to things like this. And I'm starting to feel like it can't change. That it won't change.

 

I see the attitude of boardies here from other countries, and how they feel about these issues reflects how I feel. I've always felt I could stay and vote to change things, lobby to change things. But lately I'm feeling hopeless about it.

 

The real answer I guess is to keep being active politically, raise my kids to be the kinds of people I want to see in the world, and have faith. To keep an eye out for the long term, vs short term.

 

What's funny is that I am this upset and yet I do have health insurance, medical care that is excellent, and we even own guns! So I don't feel I'm an extremist, but I'm just so disheartened.

Would you believe that myself and my family are also angry and disheartened about the way things are going in the country and our alienation that our very basic priorities aren't shared by seemingly most of the country's residents? That the handling of basic social and economic realities is completely ruined? That we are watching a place we love be ruined? That so many parts of the country just aren't a good fit, hence why we looked outside the borders? I think your attitude of trying to find a better fit in the states is great and that is ultimately the decision we made as well.

 

I guarantee we disagree on most of these issues, yet feel the similarly affected. If this isn't your country, and it isn't my country, whose is it? Whose priorities does it reflect?

 

I admit I wonder this more than a little. But perhaps this is the truth of it - that life is not where we are or our circumstances but what we make of what we have and what we do with who we love. That nothing will ever reflect our ideas and preferences perfectly and if it does then it is just hell for someone else. I honestly believe this is the strength of a union of states that are all different and semi-autonomous. It gives the most people he best chance of living where they are comfortable and with people whom they can agree and cohabitate as fellow citizens. And that if somewhere isn't a good fit, the ability of individual states to self govern and the people to have an affective vote allows that uniqueness and individuality to emerge. In this way, more and more national systems can actually worsen the problem of disaffection because there is no escape to somewhere better suited to our dreams and desires.

 

It's just my own musings and you may disagree, but I find it poignant and slightly ironic that you and I are so different and yet your thoughts echo so many of my own on this, even as we come at it from different worldviews and with different personal goals and ideas of self fulfillment.

 

What that tells me is what we should never forget - that people are people and differences may divide us, but they should never create animosity and distance to the point where we forget that the dreams of one might not be the dreams of another. We need to be able to respect that without seeking to erase everything that makes us personally disagree or be uncomfortable.

 

Whether you stay or go, I hope you don't forget that we can all make the best of even disagreeable and unjust and even dangerous situations, and that living in fear or anger is a waste of what we have here and now. It's not perfect for anyone, but that doesn't mean we must despair.

 

/end embarrassing personal rambling :o

Edited December 5, 2015 by Arctic Mama

[MEmama]

Not arguing with you. I read the OP as saying her husband already had job prospects here. He is in a high demand field. In my region, it isn't hard for foreign workers to get job offers from companies in certain fields. IT is one, industrial mechanics and industrial electricians are a couple more. There are companies (mostly in skilled manufacturing) who actively recruit outside the country. It all depends on your field and the companies involved.

I didn't intend to sound defensive. I just hear a lot of people who seem to think one can simply get a job there as "easily" as here, and that's just not generally the case. A lot of Americans are unaware of the realities, just as many are unaware that Canada isn't America-lite.

[Critterfixer]

Nothing at all to add to the thread regarding nice places to move, but just wanted to say that the 10am dark picture is beautiful, Arctic Mama.

[Dicentra]

This is a picture I just took outside my dining room window at 10 am:

 

It will get a little brighter until solar noon at 2 pm, but not by much. I'm not even that far north as this state goes. Most people leave this place because of the weather and light issues, not people or access or cost. You're hearing people even in Washington and New England complain about the dark and it only gets worse the further north and more coastal you are. Rosie's suggestion of Melbourne isn't actually a bad one. Or have you considered somewhere like Malta or Spain? Brazil? Trade offs everywhere but they may suit your tastes and don't have the further north climate issues.

 

In winter at home I never see direct sun, I'm on the north side of a hill and it just stays too low below the horizon unless I'm out of the house. Norway has similar issues, as does the northern parts of the Canadian provinces. I'd mark places like these off your list wholesale if my window view isn't your cup of tea ;)

 

I've grown up here in the north (and actually, for Canada, I'm not all that far north) and I love the light in your picture.  It's that winter-time, daylight-but-not, bluish kind of light that one only sees in the winter when there's snow on the ground.  But, as I say, I grew up here and, as nightmarish as it sometimes sounds, I love the climate and can't imagine living where it's warm and sunny all the time. :)  Gorgeous, Arctic Mama!

[MEmama]

In Minnesota people referred to the "blue hour", that hour or two before winter darkness set in. Even though the early nights can be hard on me, the blue lighting is my favorite part of the winter day. :)

[Bluegoat]

Most of the parts of Canada where people live are not so far north as Alaska.  I'm in Halifax, sunset today is bout 4:30, but it will start getting longer again by the end of the month.  By the end of Feb, which IMO is the worst month, it will be at 6:00., with sunrise just before 7.

[creekland]

Most of the parts of Canada where people live are not so far north as Alaska.  I'm in Halifax, sunset today is bout 4:30, but it will start getting longer again by the end of the month.  By the end of Feb, which IMO is the worst month, it will be at 6:00., with sunrise just before 7.

 

I love the Maritimes.  Just had to mention it... one of these years I have to plan a trip back there some summer.

[Rosie_0801]

Rosie's suggestion of Melbourne isn't actually a bad one.

 

Oh I wouldn't suggest Melbourne to someone from Florida. Brisbane would be more comfortable, weatherwise.

[Tsuga]

I find it really, really hard to believe that Canada has close to three times the rate of violent crime per 100k that the US does. Is that believable to you? I followed your links, but they didn't help me understand. Are they comparing different time periods? Labeling it differently? I don't know, but I can't get my head around that statistic.

 

This is why Seattle has high "violent crime". Burglary counts, and people report much more the more stable society is. Seattle and Portland are very safe if you are only concerned about your bodily integrity. But if you are really, really, REALLY worried about a smash-n-grab or your phone, then you would never want to come here. We have very high theft rates.

 

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/wa/seattle/crime/

 

Now, our murder rates, aggravated assault, and rape rates are low, but yes, you could easily get robbed. Why, there are smash-n-grabs all the time. And people report them. See how high "robbery" is compared to other violent crimes in both the US and Seattle? And see how much higher in Seattle? That totally skews things.

 

I know people who are deeply, deeply concerned about their earrings and televisions, to the point that they keep a gun in the home. I even had someone offer to "help me out" when I was concerned about an intruder (there was none). "I have a gun." Uh, yeah, because I'd like to inflict the death penalty on someone for the sake of my mother loving TELEVISION. Hah. No, thank you. He can have the TV. ;) For real, it is just not a big deal to me. In fact, if given the choice, I would actively go to the bank and give him $500 cash just not to have to kill him.

 

Really. I'm just that dedicated to human life and second chances.

 

So, it just depends what you value:

 

Your property, your earrings, your mother's ring, your TV... or human life.

 

Tough call for many people in the US, I know, but hey, we all have different values.

 

But yeah, fewer guns means more thefts, and that factors into the violent crime rate.

 

Now you look at murder, aggravated assault, and manslaughter, and it's a whole different ballgame.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Tsuga

[MomtoCandJ]

This is a picture I just took outside my dining room window at 10 am:

 

It will get a little brighter until solar noon at 2 pm, but not by much. I'm not even that far north as this state goes. Most people leave this place because of the weather and light issues, not people or access or cost. You're hearing people even in Washington and New England complain about the dark and it only gets worse the further north and more coastal you are. Rosie's suggestion of Melbourne isn't actually a bad one. Or have you considered somewhere like Malta or Spain? Brazil? Trade offs everywhere but they may suit your tastes and don't have the further north climate issues.

 

In winter at home I never see direct sun, I'm on the north side of a hill and it just stays too low below the horizon unless I'm out of the house. Norway has similar issues, as does the northern parts of the Canadian provinces. I'd mark places like these off your list wholesale if my window view isn't your cup of tea ;)

Hmmm I also get that view this time of year (minus the hill), I live in the middle of the east coast of Michigan.

[AmandaVT]

Victoria, BC.  It snows about once every six years.  It's gorgeous.  It's on the ocean and the people are generally friendly.  Great homeschool groups.  *Funded* homeschool options or completely autonomous homeschooling.  

 

I daydream of moving to Victoria....if we ever move, that's where I want to be. It looks amazing! 

 

OP, Vermont has a lot of what you're looking for, except we have winters. Where I live, most people don't lock their front doors or cars. Healthcare has been a high priority here and although it's not universal yet, we are heading in that direction. 

 

It's cold in the winter though and probably wouldn't get warm enough for you in the summer. We only had a few days that went over 80 this past summer and the sun will set at 4:13 tonight. 

[Audrey]

I didn't intend to sound defensive. I just hear a lot of people who seem to think one can simply get a job there as "easily" as here, and that's just not generally the case. A lot of Americans are unaware of the realities, just as many are unaware that Canada isn't America-lite.

Edited: my post disappeared ???

 

I definitely agree with the bolded.  Whenever things are changing down south, a lot of Americans talk of moving to Canada.  They seem to assume it's the same here as there, but somehow sans whatever their objection is at the moment.  It's presumptuous as best and arrogant at worst to assume that they will just come up here and resume their lives as before. I was presumptuous (or arrogant) when I moved here, but I came in having married a Canadian and although he prepared me for differences and I tried to see my own country through his Canadian lens, it wasn't until I was here that I realized how blind I had been.  Canada isn't at all like America.  It doesn't look like America, or govern like it, or produce like it, or consume like it.  Most Americans wouldn't entertain notions of moving to France or Germany or Hungary assuming it was just like the US. It's not a neighbour issue either, because I've never heard an American look to Mexico and think it's going to be the same as the US there.  

 

Personally, I think it's up to Americans to change their own country if they don't like it, not to try moving in on another one.  It's not impossible to effect enormous change down there, but it has to come from within.  If anything, Americans are tenacious.  I am sure there will be change coming.  I hope it is for their best.  They used to be my peeps, too, you know.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2015 by Audrey

[Seasider]

True story on South Florida...that's where I'm from :) A fairly liberal area with lots of displaced northerners and a large percentage of Jewish families. Orlando is...not like that. But where I lived has become more like Palm Beach than I am comfortable with, so I don't see us going back there.

 

Maybe I just need to stop keeping up with the news. Although that doesn't fix the socialized healthcare issue.

I've always felt the southwest coast different than the southeast coast - would that make a difference?

[Seasider]

You should look into Costa Rica. They speak English, it's cheap living, easy to buy citizenship, and a common place for Americans to retire to. It's warm, tropical, and relaxed. They have high speed internet.

 

I've also heard good things about a few places in the Caribbean and Panama, but none of them seemed as easy as Costa Rica. I'd probably wait until kiddos are adults though, as to not overly complicate their lives.

Though I've heard there are many concierge-type media l practices there, pretty much circumventing the insurance system altogether. Perhaps one of our boardies from S or CA can shed light on the health care available there.

 

ETA - I read through and did see jrap's post.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Seasider

[Colleen in NS]

 

Ok, so maybe the UK? 

 

I THINK I'm less scared of cold than I am of gloom and lack of sunlight. That really does give me pause. I'm a sun lover. Not heat, but sunshine. I have been to Wisconsin, in September. That might be the most cold I've dealt with :)

 

(it was actually lovely there, a bit of snow, and crisp.But that's a dry cold.)

 

 

Most of the parts of Canada where people live are not so far north as Alaska.  I'm in Halifax, sunset today is bout 4:30, but it will start getting longer again by the end of the month.  By the end of Feb, which IMO is the worst month, it will be at 6:00., with sunrise just before 7.

 

OP, have you looked into Nova Scotia?  People keep mentioning the big cities of Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary, and Montreal...but check out the city of Halifax and the rest of NS, too.  Excepting last winter, the winters here aren't as bad as, say, Ottawa and Edmonton.  Bluegoat mentioned our sunset today; I will mention, too, that today was super-sunny and not-too-cold!  The temp. was up around 60 degrees F at one point.  Nova Scotia has many post-secondary opportunities, too.  And we push for immigrants to stay here and not move west.  Also, people here stick together when it comes to outlasting the winter.

 

I immigrated here years ago from the States, and I love it.  Oh sure, I sometimes wish I lived in NC near my sister who enjoys great weather throughout winter.  But, I am glad to live in Canada, and in such a beautiful (and inexpensive) part of it.
 

[Annie G]

  Most Americans wouldn't entertain notions of moving to France or Germany or Hungary assuming it was just like the US. It's not a neighbour issue either, because I've never heard an American look to Mexico and think it's going to be the same as the US there.  

 

 

 

I think the people on HGTV's House Hunters International surly think moving to a different country is very much like the US. They want a large, open concept home, with a modern kitchen, a couple of nice bathrooms, etc.  But they also want the things the target country has- a fabulous view in Italy, walking distance to shops and restaurants in Paris, an ocean view in a tropical location.  

 

Yeah, I'm just kidding. Kind of. 

[Sneezyone]

Some good points. I'm not upset about my own insurance (actually, I am, but we can afford it.) And I'm not worried about being shot, particularly. I'm upset that other people in this country don't prioritize health for everyone, and that it isn't seen as a right. And I'm upset not by guns, or fear of me being shot, but by yes, the gun culture I guess. By the fact that these things keep happening and nothing seems possible to fix it. Does that make sense?

 

Maybe the real answer, vs the perfect answer (which it seems doesn't exist) is to find a place inside the USA that meets what I'm looking for at least locally. I'm just so tired of it all, and honestly, angry and embarrassed by my country with regards to things like this. And I'm starting to feel like it can't change. That it won't change.

 

I see the attitude of boardies here from other countries, and how they feel about these issues reflects how I feel. I've always felt I could stay and vote to change things, lobby to change things. But lately I'm feeling hopeless about it.

 

The real answer I guess is to keep being active politically, raise my kids to be the kinds of people I want to see in the world, and have faith. To keep an eye out for the long term, vs short term.

 

What's funny is that I am this upset and yet I do have health insurance, medical care that is excellent, and we even own guns! So I don't feel I'm an extremist, but I'm just so disheartened.

Hawaii. Seriously. The nightly news is traffic focused. Homicide leads once a month or so, and that's across all islands. The weather is great, the ppl. Are friendly and laid back. The national news breaks before Hawaii gets up and is over before Hawaii gets off work. It's an island!

[lewelma]

We immigrated to New Zealand 20 years ago because we saw the writing on the wall in America even then. We our dual citizens and so are our children.

 

What NZ has:

Public health care and a private hospital system that you can buy insurance for. So the best of both worlds. We vote for the health board who makes the decisions as too how the health care budget will be spent - hip operations vs premiered babies etc. Sent

 

Gun laws that work. You must apply for a licence and then a police officer has to come to your home and inspect your gun cabinet and your ammunition cabinet. They must be separate, locked, and affixed to the wall. All hand guns must be stored at a shooting range.

 

Safety. My 11 year old walks 30 minutes through the city to the train and travels 20 miles to go to one of his activities. He has been walking alone in the city since he was 7. In my city of 400,000 there have been two murders and one kidnappijng in the twenty years I have lived here.

 

Nature. Enough said.

 

Jobs for qualified people. Especially in IT. When my husband applies for a jkb, there are typically 1 or 2 other applicants. IRD just had to look internationally for a security specialist to oversee the new tax website. There was no local talent at all.

 

The ability to be a big fish in a small pond. My DS will this year or next be in the NZ IMO team. In America the contest starts with 300,000 kids taking the AMC.

 

Homeschool is easy. You have to apply but then there is no reporting, testing, etc. We get about 700 dollars per kid.

 

Stable government. No American, icky-style politics. By law, campaigns can only start three months before an election. Imagine that!!

 

 

NZ's problems:

 

Expensive COL. We live in an apartment so we can afford to live in the city. Products must be shipped from overseas with a huge shipping fee.

 

Travel home is expensive and arduous

 

We live in the windiest city in the world!!

 

Small player in the national stage. Economy can be easily pulled by other players. since we have lived here the currancy has gone from 0.39 to 0.9 against the US dollar numerous times.

 

Few universities and none at the level of the best American universities. However they are affordable, as in 700 dollars per course.

 

Overall, we love it. I was homesick for two full years. But now I get reverse culture shock when I go visit my family in the USA.

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited December 8, 2015 by lewelma

[Joules]

We immigrated to New Zealand 20 years ago because we saw the writing on the wall in America even then. We our dual citizens and so are our children.

 

 

Stable government. No American, icky-style politics. By law, campaigns can only start three months before an election. Imagine that!!

 

 

 

Sounds wonderful!  I won't quote the whole thing, but the bolded might be my favorite.  I'm putting NZ on my list.  I'll have ds start looking at universities there now. Maybe he can do two years here and then transfer?

[ktgrok]

OP, have you looked into Nova Scotia?  People keep mentioning the big cities of Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary, and Montreal...but check out the city of Halifax and the rest of NS, too.  Excepting last winter, the winters here aren't as bad as, say, Ottawa and Edmonton.  Bluegoat mentioned our sunset today; I will mention, too, that today was super-sunny and not-too-cold!  The temp. was up around 60 degrees F at one point.  Nova Scotia has many post-secondary opportunities, too.  And we push for immigrants to stay here and not move west.  Also, people here stick together when it comes to outlasting the winter.

 

I immigrated here years ago from the States, and I love it.  Oh sure, I sometimes wish I lived in NC near my sister who enjoys great weather throughout winter.  But, I am glad to live in Canada, and in such a beautiful (and inexpensive) part of it.

 

 

Huh, for some reason I assumed Nova Scotia would be much more expensive! I'm not sure why, other than it's near water and near where Anne of Green Gables is from. Somehow to me that equaled more expensive, lol!

[ktgrok]

Hmm..New Zealand sounds lovely! The travel part though....if we get the gumption up to move away from family I don't think I could be THAT far from them. Same issue with Hawaii. Not to mention we always have multiple pets (former vet tech...I can't help it) and the quarantine to move to an island would be an issue. 

[ktgrok]

okay, darn it! I just googled Nova Scotia. I want to go!!!!!!!!!  It looks like exactly what I want. Near water, fresh seafood, farmland, forests, community spirit, etc. 

 

Gorgeous! 

[ktgrok]

Huh, for some reason I assumed Nova Scotia would be much more expensive! I'm not sure why, other than it's near water and near where Anne of Green Gables is from. Somehow to me that equaled more expensive, lol!

 

Comparison calculators tell me Cost of Living is actually LESS expensive there than here! 

 

And I imagine a flight from there to here isn't too bad, to visit family, compared to say from British Columbia. 

 

Now, to have DH look for job offers, lol :)

[Bluegoat]

okay, darn it! I just googled Nova Scotia. I want to go!!!!!!!!!  It looks like exactly what I want. Near water, fresh seafood, farmland, forests, community spirit, etc. 

 

Gorgeous! 

 

You should come for a visit - we'd be happy to show you around.

[creekland]

okay, darn it! I just googled Nova Scotia. I want to go!!!!!!!!!  It looks like exactly what I want. Near water, fresh seafood, farmland, forests, community spirit, etc. 

 

Gorgeous! 

 

FWIW, I love NS and the maritimes in general.  My Step mom lives in Amherst... but we haven't been there since 2003 so a bit could have changed in the past 12 years.  Well... it's NS.  Not much is likely to have changed!  ;)

[YaelAldrich]

I'd probably love it. 

 

But my issues are more on a national level....healthcare, gun control, the celebration of ignorance that I see in politics, xenophobia, etc. 

 

But maybe I would feel better in a smaller town where at least I felt safe personally, if not as a country. 

 

I grew up in a town where we never locked our cars or front doors, at least not during the day. Sure, maybe at night when going to bed you locked up the doors of the house, but that's it. We walked to parks as small kids, lots of community spirit, etc. Living in the Orlando area is nothing like that. And it wears on me. Add in the stuff in the news and I'm just finding myself reaching a tipping point of some sort. 

 

So, if someone can reccomend a country with socialized medicine, a culture of respecting education/science, and say, not a mass shooting every freaking day, that would be great. One where I won't turn into a Katiesicle :)

Israel!  :leaving:

 

Japan too, but I promise your acclimatization would be rough to almost impossible.

Edited December 8, 2015 by YaelAldrich

[Bluegoat]

Comparison calculators tell me Cost of Living is actually LESS expensive there than here! 

 

And I imagine a flight from there to here isn't too bad, to visit family, compared to say from British Columbia. 

 

Now, to have DH look for job offers, lol :)

 

I think there are jobs in his area in Halifax, anyway.

[ktgrok]

Given the number of precancerous lesions the doctor just froze off of me (10 frozen off, two biopsies, for a total of 12 lesions this time) I may be even more interested in moving away from the equater! Maybe less sun would be a good thing!

[Liz CA]

Katie, it's time to watch the "Road to Avonlea" set on Prince Edward Island, a Canadian maritime province...or Anne of Green Gables! :lol: :lol: