so, how hard is it to move to Canada?

[ktgrok]

DH is an information security engineer, aka cyber security, which seems to be on the list for skilled workers. I'm not ready to pull the trigger yet, and I don't want to move far from my parents, but it may eventually come to it. I'm not sure I can live in this country the way it is currently shaping up and stay sane. 

 

So...how hard would it be for a family like ours to move across the border? How expensive? What's the cost of living like comparatively? I'm in the Orlando, FL area for perspective. 

[Bluegoat]

If he's on the skilled worker list, it wouldn't be too bad.  The thing is finding a job, after that it tends to go fairly smoothly in my experience (which isn't huge.)  COL is tricky to talk bout because Canada is a big country - working in Vancouver or Toronto would be totally different than in Hamilton or Halifax.  So I think you'd likely find housing to be the biggest variable depending on location.  Food and such is often more here, and gas, but then health insurance is less.  Schools are overall ok (they seem to have less variation that US ones, I think because of different funding models), and some provinces have subsidies for homeschooling, though usually those ones also have more oversight.

 

 

 

[Guest]

My BIL renounced his citizenship and lives in Alberta, while regularly flying back to California. If you're specialized enough they'll take you almost anywhere. (ETA - I thought he just expatriated but was mistaken, he went all the way)

 

My husband and I toyed with the idea of moving abroad but the more we looked the more we discovered there were trade offs everywhere and not the kind we particularly wanted to make, even with our top three choices. Good luck to you.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Arctic Mama

[redsquirrel]

Why don't you go for a visit first. 

 

FWIW I grew up on the border, my dad is Canadian and I have duel citizenship b/c I was born there but my mom is a US citizen.  So, I am a naturalized US citizen but Canada considers me Canadian.  I can get a passport from either country.

 

I would live there in a heartbeat. I love it there.  It is more expensive when you compare prices, due to currency issues etc, but it all seems to equal out.

 

I am sorry you are feeling stressed. That seems to be the bigger issue, yes? :grouphug:

[creekland]

Make sure you visit first - in winter.

 

I love Canada.  Having literally grown up on the border I consider it my second home.  It pretty much is. Going back home for a visit automatically includes also visiting my favorite haunts in Canada.  But winters...  I fully understand why many Canadians winter in the Bahamas.   :coolgleamA:

[ktgrok]

Yeah, the weather is certainly an issue. I've lived in Florida my entire life. But buying warm clothing and a full spectrum lam;p seems more doable than fixing the issues here. 

[trulycrabby]

Vancouver, BC, is very nice and does not get a lot of snow. It does rain a lot though, and I don't know about the current cost of living since it has been 40 years since I lived there. :o

[T'smom]

I would seriously plan an extended visit in the winter before making plans. I moved north (not as far as Canada and didn't start out as south as Florida) and I am absolutely miserable all winter long. If I had truly comprehended how I would feel all winter, I never would have moved here.

[creekland]

Yeah, the weather is certainly an issue. I've lived in Florida my entire life. But buying warm clothing and a full spectrum lam;p seems more doable than fixing the issues here. 

 

We enjoyed the Bahamas.  We also really enjoyed HI and found it to have a different atmosphere than many/all of the other states.

 

Both tempt us to move at times.

 

NBC put a graphic up on their evening news.  It showed where all of the mass shootings have been in the past X years.  HI had none.

[Upward Journey]

It's expensive to move stuff from FL to Canada.  Even when you only move 1/3 of your stuff  :glare:  And your visa may only be good for a couple of years, and you may not be able to renew it, which would mean moving your stuff back, unless you are able to get permanent residency which is also an expensive endeavor and it takes awhile, like 18 months from start to finish.

 

For us the expense and the time involved has been totally worth it.  We love Canada  :001_wub: a lot, which I think makes our family in the states a bit sad. We have no desire to move back.

 

I will be honest though, when we first moved it was hard.  It's not like it's the same culture just w/ universal healthcare and the same language.  It's quite different, especially if you're moving from the SE United States.  

[MEmama]

We went through the entire immigration process. It took us a couple of years, lots of time, lots of money, and lots of energy and stress. From all the stories we heard, we had a particularly easy time of it and the timing was considered quick.

 

I agree with a pp that there are trade offs to living everywhere. We had spent tons of time all over the country, including the province where moved, and did not go in wearing rose colored glasses, but it was much, much more difficult than we could have ever imagined.

 

Feel free to PM me if you want details about the process of acquiring permanent residency, or anything else.

[DragonFaerie]

:bigear:

[Sarah CB]

Vancouver, BC, is very nice and does not get a lot of snow. It does rain a lot though, and I don't know about the current cost of living since it has been 40 years since I lived there. :o

 

Cost of living is a huge issue in Vancouver.  It's pretty difficult to find a decent house for under a million.

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'll go with you....

 

I live in upstate NY so I'm fairly used to the weather.  Although I hate the weather.

 

 

[creekland]

I should add that the Bahamas has a pretty racist/socio-economic class feel to it with tourists/whites as superior and natives inferior.  It's awkward for those of us who feel a person is a person regardless of their birth lottery or job.  We were able to push past (most of) it by getting to know local folks and feel we'd do fine if we moved there and more people got to know us & vice versa.  They're just so used to rich tourists acting like rich tourists, but they're willing to look past that with people who are willing to talk with them and embrace the place.

 

Canada won't have that starting issue.  Some in Canada idealize the US too much IMO, but that's lessened a bit in the past few years for obvious reasons.

[SparklyUnicorn]

could go to Germany, but no homeschooling and I think my kids would hate me forever

 

so that probably won't happen

 

 

[Guest]

Cost of living is a huge issue in Vancouver. It's pretty difficult to find a decent house for under a million.

 

We love Vancouver and that is one of the main reasons we would never move there. We can get the same beauty in southeast Alaska and it's cheaper there - but STILL too expensive to comfortably raise a moderate to large family on one salary.

 

New Zealand had similar issues for us, along with some government trade offs my husband wasn't comfortable with. Tradeoffs :)

 

I will say that with a big enough salary Alberta has been great for my BIL. But if he was married with kids it would have changed the ease of transition. Weather was no issue for him coming from Fairbanks and Anchorage, but it could be a huge deal if you or your husband struggle with SAD or dislike the cold. And then there are places like Montreal, which can be absolutely lovely or miserable, depending on what you personally value!

[Bluegoat]

Yeah, Vancouver is almost impossible in terms of COL.  People who make normal wages have tremendous long commutes.  Toronto is somewhat less so, but still very high COL with people living far from work.  Calgary and Ottawa can both be expensive too.

 

So far as weather - the coasts are warmest, but wet cold which some find worse. But - there is the ocean. The prairies are probably the coldest in real terms.

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I see what the houses in Canada cost in some areas (HGTV).  Holy smokes.  Do they take on 100 year loans or what?

 

 

[Liz CA]

I've only been close enough to look across the border but winters are harsh...and you are used to FL weather? If you hate FL and love wading through snow you're good to go. :)

Honestly, I probably would like cooler summers but am not willing to give up snow-free roads in winter. :lol:

I had to edit to throw in that Newfoundland would be worth a look just because of the proximity of WATER and the beautiful coastline.  :laugh:

Edited December 4, 2015 by Liz CA

[SproutMamaK]

Life in Canada will vary a LOT depending on where you want to live. Living expenses like food, clothing, books, furniture, etc, are higher here. Real estate is all over the board. Like most places, big cities can be quite expensive whereas smaller/less developed communities can be quite reasonable. Homeschooling is legal everywhere except Quebec (frankly I wouldn't recommend Quebec unless you speak French, the culture there is very... haughty, I suppose), with varying levels of oversight. Moving here isn't too difficult if you're a skilled worker. But yeah, the winters will be a BIG change, and you should probably spend some time here in winter before you sign up for a lifetime of it. ;)

[Dicentra]

I think I would agree with previous posters who suggested visiting in the winter.  Canada is a huge country and winter isn't the same everywhere but even in the warmest of Canadian climate zones, it's going to be a LOT colder than anything you would have felt in Florida.  We had an international pharmacist move here a few years ago.  He was originally from India but had spent a few years near Vancouver so he assumed that the weather in central Canada couldn't be THAT different. :)  He left the day his contract was up.  I really think he thought he was going to die.  He kept shorting out the circuit breaker in his rental house because he had his furnace cranked constantly.  He moved to Southern Ontario and was a bit happier there but I don't know if he ended up staying or not.  He made the comment one January while he was here that he really didn't think that cold like this existed.  When everyone tried to warn him before moving here, he just thought they were pulling his leg and trying to scare him.

 

Your most temperate Canadian climates are going to be either on the West Coast or the East Coast.  The West Coast will be the warmer of the two by quite a bit.

[Guest]

Yeah, the weather is certainly an issue. I've lived in Florida my entire life. But buying warm clothing and a full spectrum lam;p seems more doable than fixing the issues here.

I would seriously spend no less than two winter weeks in Canada before taking so much as Step One. Having lived in Florida all your life, I can't help but think you will be shocked senseless at how cold cold can be. :)

[Dicentra]

My brother-in-law and his wife and two kids live in Vancouver.  They rent an apartment.  They've made peace that as long as they live there, they will rent an apartment.  Owning, or even renting, a single family home will never, ever be within their means.  He is the general manager of a fairly large eatery down by the water and she works part-time in another restaurant as one of the day managers, just for comparison.

[creekland]

I would seriously spend no less than two winter weeks in Canada before taking so much as Step One. Having lived in Florida all your life, I can't help but think you will be shocked senseless at how cold cold can be. :)

 

And realize that it takes a bit to shut anything down in winter.  Life goes on with its normal schedule.

 

Here in PA we get small amounts of snow (3 - 4 inches) and it closes nearly everything.  Where I grew up that was a light snow.  Anyone would scoff at something being closed or delayed.  My mom actually does scoff at how easily anything closes here.  So do I to be honest...

[Liz CA]

And realize that it takes a bit to shut anything down in winter.  Life goes on with its normal schedule.

 

Here in PA we get small amounts of snow (3 - 4 inches) and it closes nearly everything.  Where I grew up that was a light snow.  Anyone would scoff at something being closed or delayed.  My mom actually does scoff at how easily anything closes here.  So do I to be honest...

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:  This reminded me that I was called to the elementary school when we lived in the foothills where there was mild snow (usually less than half a foot) when ds was in public school. I rushed back up the hill from work (in the valley) wondering how bad it could be. There was hardly a dusting on the road. I did not even have to shift into 4-wheel drive and they had called all parents to pick up their dc because they were afraid power could go any moment - there was still power when I got there.

Having grown up near the Swiss border, this was wildly funny to me.

 

[MomtoCandJ]

Dh and I are thinking about this also, though we live in Michigan and where I grew up was on the border (as in we went to Sault Ste Marie, Ontario to go to the mall because it's the closest). We won't be able to though until I get my RN liscense.

[EmilyGF]

My hubby was being recruited for a 3-year job in Toronto and we did the math and realized that for us, it wouldn't be worth it. You start paying Canadian taxes right away, but don't get Canadian benefits for a while (at least that was the case a few years back). So we would have paid something like 40-50% of our income in taxes and had to have purchased health insurance on our own on top of that. 

 

So you need to move for long enough to make it worth while.

Emily

[ktgrok]

Ok, so maybe the UK? 

 

I THINK I'm less scared of cold than I am of gloom and lack of sunlight. That really does give me pause. I'm a sun lover. Not heat, but sunshine. I have been to Wisconsin, in September. That might be the most cold I've dealt with :)

 

(it was actually lovely there, a bit of snow, and crisp.But that's a dry cold.)

[Joker]

We moved this year from Florida to the Midwest and we're struggling with the cold quite a bit. I can't imagine being farther north! Maybe move in steps so it's not so much at once.

[bethben]

I would seriously spend no less than two winter weeks in Canada before taking so much as Step One. Having lived in Florida all your life, I can't help but think you will be shocked senseless at how cold cold can be. :)

 

Yes -this--Having lived in southern Minnesota for 17 years, we just couldn't do it anymore.  The year we had a whole month of below zero temperatures did it in for us.  My dh was commuting on roads declared by the governor to be hazardous to life.  Every product to melt ice couldn't work in the extreme temperature swing we found ourselves in.  We moved to a more temperate winter.  We still get snow, but it melts by the next week.  SAD is a real thing.  February was pretty tough.  It was like everyone you met was in a grumpy mood.  I agree with the others, take a month long vacation in January or February before you make the move.  And, having visited Duluth (which is closer to Canada) in mid- April of the freezing year, 75% or so of Lake Superior was frozen solid - still.  Even Duluth in June wasn't very warm.  Cold can be very cold and very draining.

[8circles]

Ok, so maybe the UK? 

 

I THINK I'm less scared of cold than I am of gloom and lack of sunlight. That really does give me pause. I'm a sun lover. Not heat, but sunshine. I have been to Wisconsin, in September. That might be the most cold I've dealt with :)

 

(it was actually lovely there, a bit of snow, and crisp.But that's a dry cold.)

Oh, honey, September in WI is nothing if we're talking about cold.  LOL.

 

& maybe you had low-humidity days but we don't generally have dry cold here.

[Liz CA]

I love threads like this. What are you looking for specifically? Are you looking for a certain business climate, benefits, economic system or do you just want to leave the USA?

[ktgrok]

So..what you are saying is that if preserving my sanity is my goal, moving to such a frigid place might not work. Sigh. 

 

The UK is warmer, right? But gloomy. And from what I'm reading not any easier to move to. 

[Liz CA]

Yes -this--Having lived in southern Minnesota for 17 years, we just couldn't do it anymore.  The year we had a whole month of below zero temperatures did it in for us.  My dh was commuting on roads declared by the governor to be hazardous to life.  Every product to melt ice couldn't work in the extreme temperature swing we found ourselves in.  We moved to a more temperate winter.  We still get snow, but it melts by the next week.  SAD is a real thing.  February was pretty tough.  It was like everyone you met was in a grumpy mood.  I agree with the others, take a month long vacation in January or February before you make the move.  And, having visited Duluth (which is closer to Canada) in mid- April of the freezing year, 75% or so of Lake Superior was frozen solid - still.  Even Duluth in June wasn't very warm.  Cold can be very cold and very draining.

 

Reminds me of what they call "break-up" in Alaska. Arctic Mama and a few others can probably comment on this. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Guest]

Ok, so maybe the UK?

 

I THINK I'm less scared of cold than I am of gloom and lack of sunlight. That really does give me pause. I'm a sun lover. Not heat, but sunshine. I have been to Wisconsin, in September. That might be the most cold I've dealt with :)

 

(it was actually lovely there, a bit of snow, and crisp.But that's a dry cold.)

Going from California to Devon (Torquay), which would be considered one of the more beautiful and warm parts of England, I can say it was pretty brutal on much of my family because of the dreariness and clouds. It was very similar to Juneau or Seattle in terms of rainfall and clouds. We actually prefer living further north in Alaska because it is more dry and thus more sunny, Torquay was drizzly and varying shades of overcast most of the year, but never warm or cold enough to get to the prettiest parts of the season except in the dead middle few weeks of summer.

 

I wasn't impressed with real estate or the quality of life there either, but I was also a kid so I could have been seeing things through those glasses. Even with a ridiculous salary and benefits, my parents couldn't wait to get back to California.

 

I think you may have just mapped out your next two long vacations :D. Definitely test drive these things for yourself, because what drives someone else crazy might not be an issue for you!

Edited December 4, 2015 by Arctic Mama

[Tsuga]

DH is an information security engineer, aka cyber security, which seems to be on the list for skilled workers. I'm not ready to pull the trigger yet, and I don't want to move far from my parents, but it may eventually come to it. I'm not sure I can live in this country the way it is currently shaping up and stay sane. 

 

So...how hard would it be for a family like ours to move across the border? How expensive? What's the cost of living like comparatively? I'm in the Orlando, FL area for perspective. 

 

We tried without being skilled for France and Canada. It was super, super expensive. Just all the forms, you know?

 

I would absolutely recommend against moving to a cold country and renouncing US citizenship unless you KNOW you can do the cold and the gray. At that time I'd lived north of Vancouver BC for two years and north of Maine for most of my life, not to mention over a year in Germany. Some people really hate the gray. They get angry and there's no escaping.

 

 

 

I THINK I'm less scared of cold than I am of gloom and lack of sunlight.

 

Have you considered Brazil?

 

The UK is also a temperate rainforest. It's not exactly sunny and warm either. 

 

And yes, Vancouver BC and that whole metro area is super expensive. And I live in the Seattle metro area so it's not like I'm exactly enjoying a low COL right now.

[Bluegoat]

So..what you are saying is that if preserving my sanity is my goal, moving to such a frigid place might not work. Sigh. 

 

The UK is warmer, right? But gloomy. And from what I'm reading not any easier to move to. 

 

From what I have heard, it is very tricky to move there at the moment.  They have a serious housing crunch and COL is high.

 

So far as sun in Canada - one thing about winter is that it can often be very bright when it is most cold.  The way to cope is to get the right clothes and go out and take advantage of the whether.  I'm on the coast, so we don't get as much cold or snow as some, which can limit winter things  bit.  But we really like to go to the outdoor skating rink for a few hours, and eat bever-tails or hot chocolate, that kind of thing.  Snowshoe if there is snow. When its stormy, you need to nest - candles, hot cider, etc.

 

Visiting is a good idea though.

[Liz CA]

Well... you tried going north, but how about Mexico or South America? Lanny could probably be helpful with this. If memory serves he lives in Colombia.

[Upward Journey]

Yes -this--Having lived in southern Minnesota for 17 years, we just couldn't do it anymore.  The year we had a whole month of below zero temperatures did it in for us.  My dh was commuting on roads declared by the governor to be hazardous to life.  Every product to melt ice couldn't work in the extreme temperature swing we found ourselves in.  We moved to a more temperate winter.  We still get snow, but it melts by the next week.  SAD is a real thing.  February was pretty tough.  It was like everyone you met was in a grumpy mood.  I agree with the others, take a month long vacation in January or February before you make the move.  And, having visited Duluth (which is closer to Canada) in mid- April of the freezing year, 75% or so of Lake Superior was frozen solid - still.  Even Duluth in June wasn't very warm.  Cold can be very cold and very draining.

 

 

Oh, honey, September in WI is nothing if we're talking about cold.  LOL.

 

& maybe you had low-humidity days but we don't generally have dry cold here.

 

And it's not "just" below zero.  Since moving here, not including this winter which has been extremely mild so far, our normal winter temps. hover around -25 to -30 Celcius.  Celcius and Fahrenheit meet at -40.  It feels as cold as it sounds ;)

[bolt.]

You can send me a pm if you are serious about this and may want to visit. I can help.

[Guest]

Hey! Have you considered somewhere like Bermuda, if the our husband can work remotely? It's not cheap but it's not as bad as a big urban center, either.

[forty-two]

Yeah, the weather is certainly an issue. I've lived in Florida my entire life. But buying warm clothing and a full spectrum lam;p seems more doable than fixing the issues here.

Ok, so maybe the UK?

 

I THINK I'm less scared of cold than I am of gloom and lack of sunlight. That really does give me pause. I'm a sun lover. Not heat, but sunshine. I have been to Wisconsin, in September. That might be the most cold I've dealt with :)

 

(it was actually lovely there, a bit of snow, and crisp.But that's a dry cold.)

I grew up along the Gulf Coast and lived in FL before moving up north (to northern IL). I used to think I could live anywhere, but I now don't ever want to go anywhere farther north - it's (mostly) not the cold itself, but it's the *dark* (and the cold+dark together). I had no clue that SAD would be an issue before I got here, but it has become a major issue. The past two years were bad enough that I started planning to get a light therapy lamp this year in August. It's helping, but it is just a barely-adequate substitute for actual sunlight, and it's not the only thing I'm doing to (try to) stave off the black hole of depression. I'm doing fairly well at the moment, but it sometimes feels like half my life is spent preparing for winter/darkness, surviving winter/darkness, and recovering from winter/darkness. Edited December 4, 2015 by forty-two

[Carol in Cal.]

When I lived in Vermont, which is very far north in the US but, and this is key, south of all of Canada, my eyes hurt on the weekends during the winter because I went to work in the dark and came home in the dark so the sunlight on Saturdays and Sundays seemed ultra bright.

 

Also, the winters were so long and cold that I kind of forgot that they went away.  It's such a slog.

 

And Montreal, at least, is far, far worse.  It is about 100 miles north of where I lived, and you could get frostbite in your legs from having a gap between your coat and your snow boots, even if you were wearing warm clothing under your coat.  Frostbite from the sharp, cold, winter wind.

 

When the weather warms to around freezing, you get freezing rain, which means that the rain falls as water and then freezes on the roads as ice, ice that you cannot see but that stops you from being able to use your brakes effectively.  It's really very difficult to deal with. 

 

And if you don't go outside in the winter time you go totally stir crazy, so you have to take up a winter activity or sport and buck up and get out there and do it.  That was the best advice I got when I moved there, but it was somewhat hard to follow.  And I was 23 and healthy. 

[unsinkable]

I would seriously spend no less than two winter weeks in Canada before taking so much as Step One. Having lived in Florida all your life, I can't help but think you will be shocked senseless at how cold cold can be. :)

And dark. There is about an hour and a half less daylight per day in northern winters vs Florida winters.

[Guest]

When I lived in Vermont, which is very far north in the US but, and this is key, south of all of Canada, my eyes hurt on the weekends during the winter because I went to work in the dark and came home in the dark so the sunlight on Saturdays and Sundays seemed ultra bright.

 

Also, the winters were so long and cold that I kind of forgot that they went away. It's such a slog.

 

And Montreal, at least, is far, far worse. It is about 100 miles north of where I lived, and you could get frostbite in your legs from having a gap between your coat and your snow boots, even if you were wearing warm clothing under your coat. Frostbite from the sharp, cold, winter wind.

 

When the weather warms to around freezing, you get freezing rain, which means that the rain falls as water and then freezes on the roads as ice, ice that you cannot see but that stops you from being able to use your brakes effectively. It's really very difficult to deal with.

 

And if you don't go outside in the winter time you go totally stir crazy, so you have to take up a winter activity or sport and buck up and get out there and do it. That was the best advice I got when I moved there, but it was somewhat hard to follow. And I was 23 and healthy.

So.... This means you're never coming to visit my home, right? :rofl:

 

We got like four hours of good, true daylight today before the sun dipped back to duskiness.

[Dicentra]

It's really starting to sound like we live a nightmare, isn't it? :P :)  I think, like anything, some people like the Canadian climate, some people can tolerate the Canadian climate, and some people feel they will die here. :D  That's why visiting during the winter would be the best thing you could do to see which of those categories you fall into. :)

 

I'm in central Canada at the eastern edge of the prairies.  The lows in winter are around -40F.  The highs in summer can be around 80 to 90F.  The sun sets on the winter solstice at about 4:30pm.  It sets on the summer solstice around 10:30pm.  I think to enjoy living here, one has to be a person who enjoys changes and extremes.

 

The cost of living will be higher than many places in the US and we certainly have our own issues as a country.  But I wouldn't give up my Canadian citizenship for anything. :)  We'd love to have you! :)

[goldberry]

BIL just got permanent residency in Canada, and it took him about two years.  It's definitely worth considering the climate.  We live in a relatively moderate area of Colorado, and have had several neighbors miserable after their first winter - and we don't even get that much snow!  AND we have sunshine!  So I think it can be very tricky for some.

 

We would like to relocate as well, but Canada is too gloomy for us.  I need the sunshine.  But not the heat, like South America has.  I think I'm too picky!

 

ETA, relocate because of healthcare, consumerism, and other reasons.  I *love* Colorado otherwise.

Edited December 4, 2015 by goldberry

[Annie G]

I grew up in Atlanta but we now live on the IL/WI border, and have for 20 years.  It's not really just the cold that bothers me. It's the pushing a full grocery cart through a parking lot before the snow is done, or at least before the plows have gotten here. It's the slushy mess that lasts for months. It's the endless putting on of hats, scarves, gloves, coats, only to get hot when you get to the theater, store, or wherever you're going.  It's the short days (but the summer is awesome because it's light by 5 AM!). It's the dreariness.  We hire our driveway plowing done but there's still sidewalk shoveling. And car scraping...even if you have a garage, it's going to snow while you're out and you're going to be scraping your car. 

 

I'm lucky that it's usually only bad like this from December through February. Or March.   North of us is more brutal. Not for me- it's just too hard. 39 months until dh can retire and we can move back to the southeast. Not that I'm counting. g

[Liz CA]

So.... This means you're never coming to visit my home, right? :rofl:

 

We got like four hours of good, true daylight today before the sun dipped back to duskiness.

 

Would suit me fine. Can't see the wrinkles in the dark. :lol: :lol: :lol: