Do you/would you force kids to do things? - UPDATE and THANK YOU

[SereneHome]

I am having a very hard time figuring out the path to take to teach my kids responsibility, general and specific.

 

Here is my goal:  I want them to grow up with an understanding that you do things that have to be done first and only then things that are optional.  I want them to appreciate the concept of being part of the family not just in fun things, but in responsibilities too. 

 

I've tried explaining the reasons as to why they need to clean, pick up after themselves, etc.  I've tried doing charts.  I've tried explaining that it hurts my feelings when they expect me to do all the clean up after them. I've given up and told them it's up to them.  I've tried consequences such as  - if you don't put x away, you can't use it.

 

Nothing is working.  My husband thinks that I should just force them.  But I think forcing them is  not going to teach them a life long good habits and as soon as they are adults and can't be forced anymore, they just won't do the right thing.

 

Am I completely wrong?  Should they be forced??   Please share your opinions and ideas - what worked or didn't work, etc.

 

Thank you!!

[Ellie]

I am having a very hard time figuring out the path to take to teach my kids responsibility, general and specific.

 

Here is my goal:  I want them to grow up with an understanding that you do things that have to be done first and only then things that are optional.  I want them to appreciate the concept of being part of the family not just in fun things, but in responsibilities too. 

 

I've tried explaining the reasons as to why they need to clean, pick up after themselves, etc.  I've tried doing charts.  I've tried explaining that it hurts my feelings when they expect me to do all the clean up after them. I've given up and told them it's up to them.  I've tried consequences such as  - if you don't put x away, you can't use it.

 

Nothing is working.  My husband thinks that I should just force them.  But I think forcing them is  not going to teach them a life long good habits and as soon as they are adults and can't be forced anymore, they just won't do the right thing.

 

Am I completely wrong?  Should they be forced??   Please share your opinions and ideas - what worked or didn't work, etc.

 

Thank you!!

 

I don't understand why you use the word "force." :huh:

 

I think Mr. SereneHome is right: require your children to do it. They will not on their own learn good habits. They must be taught what to do and how to do it and when to do it, and you must model all of the above, and then you must require them to do what you have taught them to do. Why would you think that they would just automatically be responsible? Do you think that all the nagging and whingeing and guilting is better than just...requiring them to do what they should?

 

And I still can't get over your using the word "force." :huh:

[Jean in Newcastle]

Your kids are so young.  Pick up the toys all together while singing the Clean Up song (from Barney).  Play the Elf Game (the kids tried to sneak toys or folded clothing away from me without me "seeing" the elf.  I tried to "catch" them every now and then just to keep things fun.)  

 

Now I do ask my kids to empty the dishwasher etc. and it isn't all fun and games but at your kids ages?  Make it fun and do it with them.  

[kroe1]

Well, in my opinion kiddos should be forced to do things like that if that is what you want them to do. I do not see where me Saying, "please little, Johnnie, clean up this messy toilet you just made," is ever going to work every time. Kids do not need friends from their parents, they need strong leaders. Sometimes that means forcing or giving strong consequences and punishments. It usually does not take many tough punishments, however, before the kiddo will then do it with just a gentle nudge. At least this was the case with my kiddos.

[SereneHome]

I am using the word "force" bc I don't know what other word to use.  When you make someone do something, i.e.  DS1 - go clean your room now or you won't be allowed to do x, y, z - to me, that's forcing.  He is not doing bc he thinks it's the right thing to do .  He will be doing it bc there is punishment involved.

 

I am not a fan of punishments, I don't think they have a successful long term effect.  I think it might work for short term and that's it

[SereneHome]

Well, in my opinion kiddos should be forced to do things like that if that is what you want them to do. I do not see where me Saying, "please little, Johnnie, clean up this messy toilet you just made," is ever going to work every time. Kids do not need friends from their parents, they need strong leaders. Sometimes that means forcing or giving strong consequences and punishments. It usually does not take many tough punishments, however, before the kiddo will then do it with just a gentle nudge. At least this was the case with my kiddos.

 

I completely agree with firs bolded part. 

 

There are very few consequences I can think of that would work on my kids.   They don't have reactions to toys being taken away, bc they can usually play with a door knob and have fun with it.  They don't have their own electronics and VERY rarely use my Ipad.  The only thing I can think of is not allowing TV watching, which they love to do.  But after not watching it for a week or so, they don't even ask for that any more.   Anything that worked for your kids that you might suggest?

[maize]

I don't understand why you use the word "force." :huh:

 

I think Mr. SereneHome is right: require your children to do it. They will not on their own learn good habits. They must be taught what to do and how to do it and when to do it, and you must model all of the above, and then you must require them to do what you have taught them to do. Why would you think that they would just automatically be responsible? Do you think that all the nagging and whingeing and guilting is better than just...requiring them to do what they should?

 

And I still can't get over your using the word "force." :huh:

If you have compliant kids you can "require" and they will comply.

 

If you don't have compliant kids you can "require" and the kids will, yep, not comply. You might add consequences and they will still not comply. You might try to force them by increasing the severity of the consequences, but when push comes to shove you cannot actually control another person. Some kids will continue to not comply no matter how high the stakes become.

 

So, my opinion: don't get into a battle of wills with your kids. Reasonable and consistent expectations and consequences are fine, but if you are trying to force their behavior you have crossed the line into battle territory; battles happen between enemies, and my kids and I are not enemies.

 

Jean's suggestions are good ones--make it fun, work with them, think of habit formation and all being on the same side in a family effort to do good things and maintain a nice environment. My own kids usually respond better to incentives than negative consequences--the ten and seven year olds just cleared the table and swept the dining room floor for the privilege of watching a new episode of a show they like.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I am using the word "force" bc I don't know what other word to use. When you make someone do something, i.e. DS1 - go clean your room now or you won't be allowed to do x, y, z - to me, that's forcing. He is not doing bc he thinks it's the right thing to do . He will be doing it bc there is punishment involved.

 

I am not a fan of punishments, I don't think they have a successful long term effect. I think it might work for short term and that's it

Reframe your perceptions, cheerfully.

 

As soon as we finish ______, we can _______!

 

We need to clean up our mess. Then we can play, go to the park, watch a movie, read aloud....

 

Teach them to clean as they go.

 

My kids are 12, 11, and 9 and do as much housework as I do now, which basically means we divide and conquer. But we've chosen the cheerful, instructional, cooperative path to get there.

[T'smom]

I have a non-compliant child and yes, I have to force him to do things or nothing would get done. Seriously, NOTHING. (No idea what the difference is between "requiring" and "forcing"- seems to me it is the same thing. I make an attempt to keep things fairly picked up, because when it gets too bad, it is very overwhelming for the kids. But when something HAS to be done, they do it or they sit on the stairs (our time-out place). They sit there until they do it. Nothing happens until it gets done. I've had success with not serving lunch until certain school subjects are finished. I have also had success with bribing. Every day of school done with a good attitude earns a Pokemon card. I pay for cleaning- done well and with a good attitude. I do not have this all figured out.

[HomeAgain]

Alte Veste Academy has exactly what I was going to say.  When-Then.  When this is done, then we will do x.  Have routines.  Be cheerful as you teach.  But..........

 

Sometimes, there is no leeway.  I have expectations and that is the sum and the law.  I expect child A will make his bed and brush his teeth in the morning.  Doesn't do it?  Child A is then redirected with a firm "it is time to make your bed" while I watch.  Eventually it will sink in that there is no getting around that expectation and child A grows up with the habit of doing it.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I am having a very hard time figuring out the path to take to teach my kids responsibility, general and specific.

 

Here is my goal: I want them to grow up with an understanding that you do things that have to be done first and only then things that are optional. I want them to appreciate the concept of being part of the family not just in fun things, but in responsibilities too.

 

I've tried explaining the reasons as to why they need to clean, pick up after themselves, etc. I've tried doing charts. I've tried explaining that it hurts my feelings when they expect me to do all the clean up after them. I've given up and told them it's up to them. I've tried consequences such as - if you don't put x away, you can't use it.

 

Nothing is working. My husband thinks that I should just force them. But I think forcing them is not going to teach them a life long good habits and as soon as they are adults and can't be forced anymore, they just won't do the right thing.

 

Am I completely wrong? Should they be forced?? Please share your opinions and ideas - what worked or didn't work, etc.

 

Thank you!!

And don't talk too much. (I speak from experience here!) And don't use guilt. They'll resent it when they recognize it and it's generally unproductive.

[catz]

What Alte Veste said.  Some things are done before we can do our fun things.  That's just how our house runs.  Once it's habit, it becomes much easier and kids don't ask for a pass all the time. 

 

I'm not clear what you mean by force?  I don't physically force.  But sometimes I follow them up to their bedroom and tell them exactly what needs to be done. 

[Entropymama]

I think you're dealing with two separate issues - getting your kids to do their chores and teaching them good citizenship, for lack of a better word. I second Jean in Newcastle, your kids are very young. Give them chores and consequences and teach them about being a family and taking care of their things, but do them separately. After many years of pep talks and good books and praise heaped on praise, my older kids now are beginning to understand the 'whys' of doing things. They're 13 and 11. 

 

"I've tried explaining the reasons as to why they need to clean, pick up after themselves, etc.  I've tried doing charts.  I've tried explaining that it hurts my feelings when they expect me to do all the clean up after them. I've given up and told them it's up to them.  I've tried consequences such as  - if you don't put x away, you can't use it."

 

They may not be able to grasp the reasons yet - that takes time and maturity. Charts are good. But to the bolded - they aren't responsible for your feelings and shouldn't be made to feel that they are. And they're probably not capable of managing household chores on their own. I'm not criticizing, I know how hard it can be! They'll get it. 

[SereneHome]

Reframe your perceptions, cheerfully.

 

As soon as we finish ______, we can _______!

 

We need to clean up our mess. Then we can play, go to the park, watch a movie, read aloud....

 

Teach them to clean as they go.

 

My kids are 12, 11, and 9 and do as much housework as I do now, which basically means we divide and conquer. But we've chosen the cheerful, instructional, cooperative path to get there.

 

I want to be you when I grow up!!!

[SereneHome]

So many good suggestions - thank you!!

 

I am going to sort things in my head and start implementing some next week.

 

 

[catz]

Yes, your kids are very young.  At that age, we would do things like pick up stuff together.  Or one step things like now you need to go throw this in the garbage.  Young kids really aren't good a multi-step, independent tasks unless it's really something they want to do.  It's a marathon, not a sprint.

[Alte Veste Academy]

I want to be you when I grow up!!!

LOL I was you when my kids were your kids' ages (my three are each 19 months apart). It gets easier! ;)

 

Also, consider this... You want their help, right? They want your help too. At their ages, help them with every job. Give them sub-instructions one by one if necessary. "OK, sweetie, you put your blocks away and I will put the animals away." "You do the sink and I'll do the toilet." Later, this becomes, "You clean the upstairs bathroom, you two do the downstairs bathroom, and I'll straighten the kitchen."

 

If they are overwhelmed when you tell them to clean a room, it's because it's too much and/or they have not formed good habits yet. So help them and teach them. If it takes you 10 minutes to clean their room, it takes them an hour, yes? (That was the case here.) So we did it together and they learned how to efficiently clean and, even better, that it is possible at all.

 

What if they just don't want to? LOL Same thing. "Yeah, I don't love doing dishes either, so I get it over with ASAP." The lesson in efficiency is helpful here too.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Also, I highly recommend Playful Parenting. http://www.amazon.com/Playful-Parenting-Lawrence-J-Cohen/dp/0345442865/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445111822&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=Playful+patenting

[Artichoke]

I am using the word "force" bc I don't know what other word to use. When you make someone do something, i.e. DS1 - go clean your room now or you won't be allowed to do x, y, z - to me, that's forcing. He is not doing bc he thinks it's the right thing to do . He will be doing it bc there is punishment involved.

 

I am not a fan of punishments, I don't think they have a successful long term effect. I think it might work for short term and that's it

At this young of an age, we did chores more like what Jean describes. Work alongside them as much as you can and make it fun if you can. Kids also thrive on consistency and routine. Have set times like sweeping the floor after lunch or picking up the toys before afternoon quiet time. If it's just a normal part of the day, then most kids will easily get used to the routine and go with the flow.

 

One thing my mil taught me was to have kitchen clean-up between dinner and dessert. The kids all pitched in together, and then we'd have dessert. On the nights there wasn't dessert we'd play a fun game or take a bike ride together after dinner chores were finished.

 

Just a random thought:

When you send your ds to clean his room, does he know how to do that? Is it a fairly easy process of putting things away in their places, or is it a major mess that overwhelms him?

[SparklyUnicorn]

Force?  Like what, hold a gun up to their head?  Kind of a strong word.

 

The deal is, you are likely not going to have them do this automatically for a long time.  I think some people are under the impression that if they do XYZ thing it'll be magical and the kids will always do what you want exactly as you want it after doing that magical thing one time. Nope.  It is an ongoing, annoying process that takes effort and is not fun for the parent. 

 

 

[DesertBlossom]

I recently started a thread about my one child who has to pitch a fit about chores constantly. He says "but I don't like chores" like the rest of us must love it.

 

Despite routines having been in place for several years, it's always a battle with this kid. For me, it would be easier to give in. But I also believe that everyone in the house needs to pitch in and help. They eat and sleep here and wear clothes I buy, they can wash dishes and help around the house too. For this child of mine, I take away privileges. Chores do suck. Work sucks. Wouldn't we all like to live in a castle and be waited on hand and foot? But IMO life is a lot more work than play and there are just some things you have to do even if you don't like it.

[Peaceful Isle]

Yes, I make my three oldest do things. They all clean their rooms,  do dishes,  vacuum,  mop, clean bathrooms, the oldest two cook, they put away their laundry......and the list goes on. :)

 

I make my 4 year old do things to help as well. Just not as much as the olders. 

It is amazing how clean my little guys room can get when I tell him he can play a gadget once it is clean. :) He had actually been walking around "complaining" that he doesn't have any chores, and he wanted some!! He now dusts, cleans his room, and puts away his laundry lol.

 

 

 

My oldest likes to say.."With more responsibility, come more privileges" which is completely true. The more responsible they get, the more I let them do. Examples are : staying up later to read, texting approved friends, online time, gadget time, off babysitting, going out with friends (older) and so on. 

 

 

[fairfarmhand]

So many good suggestions - thank you!!

 

I am going to sort things in my head and start implementing some next week.

 

Some stuff has to be forced.

 

Do you force them to go to the doctor?

 

Do you force them to wear a seat belt?

 

Do you force them to brush their teeth.

 

Yes. Because it is what is good for them.

 

Learning to be a part of the family team is also a good thing to learn. To be considerate. To take care of your stuff. To know how to do basic housekeeping is important too.

[SereneHome]

Thank you, thank you, thank you for such great responses.

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Exactly. Frankly, I hate tidying up too. That's why we do it all together and hold each other accountable. If my kids want to be able to say "hey mom, you didn't clean the kitty litter out yet", they better have done what they were supposed to be doing or they'll sound hypocritical. And it's the same for me. It's pretty motivating. 

 

Yep, I hate cleaning.

 

I am not organized enough for charts and routines.  When I clean up I ask for help.  I'm mostly big about picking up after yourself.  Put your plate in the dishwasher.  Don't leave stuff on the floor.  That sort of thing.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My kids started helping around the house from the time they were first crawling.  "Bring it to Mommy!"  Of course, this changed a lot over the years.  Now my teens do their own laundry, take care of animals, help out whenever and whereever.   They are much more cooperative when they see me working too even if what I'm working on is different than what they are doing. They know that we are all working with a common goal.   And they are much more cooperative when I ask them instead of commanding them.  And as I mentioned earlier, making it a game when they are young.  Even now, we will make it fun by blasting music of our choice to clean by.  Or by racing each other.  Or by saying "Let's get this all cleaned up so that we can go out for frozen yogurt!"  

 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

Absolutely.  I force my kids to do all kinds of things.

 

Why would anyone expect 7 and 5 year olds to to understand the motivations behind cleaning up and adopt that reasoning for themselves?  You do know that they're not developmentally capable of that level of abstract, long term thought, right? Habits take years and years to develop.

 

We start chores when they're 2 and by age 6 they can do everything around the house because they were trained to do it along side mom in the 3-5 year old stage.  Chore charts are assigned and rotate monthly.  This is life.  This is normal.  This is their expectation.

 

I hate when things pile up.  If you do things regularly most of the time, they don't take very long at all.  Every day there are daily chores.  Every weekday each kid 6+  is assigned a weekly chore.  My house is company ready every Friday afternoon even though I don't do any extra cleaning.  I just arrange to have it all done by then.  We rarely do any chores in the weekends.

Now that my older two are in college and working it's a little different, but before that they did daily chores every day and a weekly chore every week day as soon as school was done. (Usually about an hour of work.)  Then they had free time and time to do extra curricular activities. 

Every now and then it didn't happen because life happened, but just because we hit a bump in the road now and then is no reason to abandon the principle entirely.  We just got back into the swing of it when we could. Work first, then play.  Maintenance is cheaper than renovation. 

[Farrar]

I think it really boils down to the idea that kids learn by doing. You don't teach a 6 yo math by giving them a lecture about the beauty of numbers. I mean, maybe you mention the beauty of numbers of give examples sometimes, but most of what you do is actually do math with numbers. Or, even better, with games and manipulatives. Ditto learning to read. You don't talk about the importance of reading (or not much) you just work on phonics and read books.

 

It's the same for learning to clean up and be responsible. You don't talk about the need to be responsible or the need for a clean home, at least, not much. You just do it. And you try to do it playfully. Now, if a child has pushback, that's another issue. Some kids won't just do it and then that's something to think about. But the vast majority of kids will pick up if you pick up, will scrub with you if they understand that once it's finished you get to move on to the fun stuff, will clear their dishes if it becomes a habit. All without complaint.

[Pen]

And also make sure they know what they are supposed to do and how to do it.  "clean your room" may or may not be something they actually understand unless they have been taught how to do it, any more than "read the book" can be done without learning how

[dollhouse]

I am using the word "force" bc I don't know what other word to use.  When you make someone do something, i.e.  DS1 - go clean your room now or you won't be allowed to do x, y, z - to me, that's forcing.  He is not doing bc he thinks it's the right thing to do .  He will be doing it bc there is punishment involved.

 

I am not a fan of punishments, I don't think they have a successful long term effect.  I think it might work for short term and that's it

 

We all do things to avoid negative consequences. I don't clean the stove because I like to, I do it because it looks gross if I don't and I'd be embarrassed if my friends came over and saw me living like a piglet. I don't pay my taxes because I like giving money away, I do it because it's legally required and I'll go to jail or incur crazy fines if I don't. Of course there are some things we are intrinsically motivated to do, but there are plenty of things on a daily basis that we do because we know the alternative is worse. It's an important life lesson that there are always consequences to our choices. 

 

Of course, I do think kids (especially young kids) relate best to related, immediate consequences. For example, you didn't put away your toys in the living room, so because I have to do it, they go in a box in the garage until you show me you can clean up next time. If you are unwilling to help clean up after dinner, you don't get the "goodie" of a family movie afterward. Teaching your kids that their actions have consequences isn't the same as forcing or punishing. It's their freely made choice that determines how their day is going to go!

[nd293]

I truly believe that much of what we do is based on good habits, rather than on conscious reasoning about why we should do it. Do I know that brushing my teeth is good for dental hygiene? Sure? But I pick up my toothbrush morning and night because I've been doing it like that for 40 years, not because I think daily about the consequences of not doing it. And I'm guessing someone forced me to do it for the early years.

 

So, yes I insist that the kids 'do the right thing'. I think it took 2-3 years of daily insisting to get us to the stage we are now: everyone contributes to the family when asked to do so. We don't have chores, they just keep their own space tidy, and help out when asked. They mostly do it willingly: it's a habit, and I hope that the habit - contributing to the care of your home and family with a good attitude - will serve them well in life. If not, at the very least it has made for a happy environment in our home. The years of insisting they help out weren't any more fun than the years of insisting they brush their teeth, but the pay off has been enormous.

[lllll]

nm

[NorthwestMom]

I think you're dealing with two separate issues - getting your kids to do their chores and teaching them good citizenship, for lack of a better word. I second Jean in Newcastle, your kids are very young. Give them chores and consequences and teach them about being a family and taking care of their things, but do them separately. After many years of pep talks and good books and praise heaped on praise, my older kids now are beginning to understand the 'whys' of doing things. They're 13 and 11. 

 

"I've tried explaining the reasons as to why they need to clean, pick up after themselves, etc.  I've tried doing charts.  I've tried explaining that it hurts my feelings when they expect me to do all the clean up after them. I've given up and told them it's up to them.  I've tried consequences such as  - if you don't put x away, you can't use it."

 

They may not be able to grasp the reasons yet - that takes time and maturity. Charts are good. But to the bolded - they aren't responsible for your feelings and shouldn't be made to feel that they are. And they're probably not capable of managing household chores on their own. I'm not criticizing, I know how hard it can be! They'll get it. 

 

:iagree:

 

 

Like x 100,000

[SereneHome]

Very helpful suggestions.

 

I guess I was naive enough to think that if I explain 1000000 times that we each have a job and their jobs are x, y, z - it will actually have some effect.  It's not like I asked them for the first time in their lives and expected immediately to become daily experts on it.

 

May be I didn't start early enough..... and now I am paying for it :(

[Minerva]

My children are a bit older than the OPs, but I ask them to help me brainstorm chore ideas. It's amazing how much more willing they are to pitch in when their input has been solicited and their ideas incorporated. We each have chores that we mind less and are willing to do in exchange for not having to do the ones we dislike. 

[Jaz]

One of the things we did at that age was pay for training. Our dc knew that once they learned the skill it would become part of their chores (or rotated, etc.) but while they were learning they were earning money. That way, I didn't feel bad showing them several times how to do things or making them go back to fix mistakes. They enjoyed the process because they enjoyed the money. It worked well for us. :)

[Joker]

I think I must have rather strange children. My dds loved doing chores when they were little. I even used to find oldest cleaning and rearranging the fridge and pantry and that was something I never asked her to do. We all helped each other out when they were little and did the cleaning and chores together.

 

Now, they're teens and don't enjoy chores. They know how to do them all, though. I don't require or force any on them (they are 13 and 15). If I need help and ask, they usually always do. If they see me cleaing up one of their messes, they usually always jump to help or take over. They don't let their rooms or bathroom get too messy before they clean without me asking.

 

I don't worry at all about them doing what needs to be done when adults and on their own. I was rarely ever forced to do any chores or cleaning. I helped out a lot but rarely were my parents forcing or nagging. We all knew how to do cleaning/cooking/chores, though, from normal helping out over the years and we all were just fine when on our own.

[KungFuPanda]

Make them do it. When they live in their own homes they can clean or not, but it shouldn't be up to them now. Right now they're just learning they can do what they want if they outlast you. That said, it's too much to expect a child to just look around and do everything that needs to be done before they play. If YOU'RE not specific and organized, and just run around putting out fires all day, they won't learn to be organized. However, if you have specific times during the day where everybody cleans up AND you give the kids specific jobs AND you've worked WITH them until they are capable, you should see progress over time.

[HS Mom in NC]

A really, really messy house isn't exactly an abstract concept though, is it? Not if you've had one, anyway.

 

Like I said, I hate when things pile up so I gear my life around making sure they don't pile up the majority of the time.  In that context cleaning small amounts to avoid the possible pile of up larger amounts is fairly abstract to them-especially in the preschool years when we do our chore training so they can be actual help by age 6.

 

My seven year old will say that we need to clean up or "bugs will come". Quite right too; a sandwich left out attracts bugs. (Don't ask me how he found out. Just don't.) There are also such things as tripping over toys when making a nightly bathroom trip, or mom saying "sorry we can't have guests over, the house is too messy right now".

 

Besides, there's a difference between intrinsic motivation and doing things without being reminded, and just being asked to go tidy up like the rest of the family. 

 

True, but I was adding the habit angle to that list.  Chores are what people do every day.  I don't ask them to pick up.  I say, "OK, time to do chores."  It's matter of fact. When they're older they know that they do chores after school because that's just what people do. 

 

I grew up on a farm.  We didn't sit around philosophizing and wondering about intrinsic motivation.  We did chores because we lived there.  No one worried how we felt about it.  The chickens, ducks, goats, cows, horses, sheep, dogs and cats needed tending to whether or not we were intrinsically motivated.  The stalls needed to be shoveled out and if we couldn't be happy about it no one fretted over it.  When the irrigation ditches needed shoveling out not the slightest bit of thought was given to whether or not we understood the incredible importance that single job was to our lives in this desert.  Somehow we managed to figure all that out on our own.

 

We ate some of the animals we raised, we rode the horses and spent the money we made boarding the neighbors' horses on stuff we couldn't have otherwise afforded.    All of us grew up to be people who deeply appreciate being able to do The Necessary whether we have any other internal motivation or not.  Even when we're internally motivated otherwise, we know that if it needs doing, we do it and we don't waste much emotion on it. That's what I'm teaching my kids to do when we simply assign chores matter of factly.  Chores are part of our day. 

 

[mamiof5]

I am not sure I'd call it forcing them, but I do set expectations. If I ask them to do their chores, put their clothes away, whatever it is...it has to be done before they get to play with friends, go on a fieldtrip etc. I don't force them to do it, they decide if they do it or not, but I can also decide to allow certain activities to happen or not to happen depending on their decisions.

[SKL]

I think if reasonable consequences don't work, you have to pick your battles.  But, why do you think the reasonable consequences don't work?  Could it be that the kids need more training/guidance in managing the work, or you picked consequences that don't matter to them, or they are choosing to be defiant?  Do they trust that they will in fact have time to do the fun stuff if they do all the work first?  Do you consider it important for your kids to have some free time to do whatever they want?

 

I also think it is a bit unrealistic to say adults always do their duties first before they do anything fun.  As long as it all gets done on time - and you generally do a good day's work - who cares what gets done first?  I think most adults will take breaks throughout the day to check in with people socially, get some entertainment/exercise, or just relax.  Before kids, I normally started my day with an hour of personal reading.  I got on a roll with work later in the day.  No harm done.

[Tsuga]

I have a non-compliant child and yes, I have to force him to do things or nothing would get done. Seriously, NOTHING. (No idea what the difference is between "requiring" and "forcing"- seems to me it is the same thing. I make an attempt to keep things fairly picked up, because when it gets too bad, it is very overwhelming for the kids. But when something HAS to be done, they do it or they sit on the stairs (our time-out place). They sit there until they do it. Nothing happens until it gets done. I've had success with not serving lunch until certain school subjects are finished. I have also had success with bribing. Every day of school done with a good attitude earns a Pokemon card. I pay for cleaning- done well and with a good attitude. I do not have this all figured out.

 

We have four kids.

 

One kid, DSD (14), you can just require her, by saying, "this is required". There seems to be this implied--"If you don't do it, then we will be disappointed in you," and that to her is a huge motivation. She could not conceive of not doing it. It has never, ever happened that she has had a severe punishment. Her mom and dad would just say her name like Daughter, please clean your room! And the very look of frustration on their face moved her to tears and she did it. She is extremely compliant. I have asked her dad and he said she was always that way.

 

The second kid, DSS, the only boy (12), is also pretty compliant, but also, passive aggressive. He's not stupid but sometimes the way he approaches things, you have to persist and persist. "I will do it." "But you need to do it NOW." "I will." "Now, like, 'I am doing it.'" "I WILL!" Two hours/days/weeks later: "Did you do it?" "I said I would do it!" However, making it fun will totally trick him. He won't ever, ever, EVER as far as I know, chose to do something himself that requires anything more than the most minimum effort, but if you make it a group thing, he'll do it. It's mildly concerning when you think about the fact that he's in public school and that some groups are not led by the best of people. Thank god he's in orchestra and has some really sweet friends on his soccer team. We force him to play a sport or take PE. We just literally have to watch him go out the door every day until he feels an immediate obligation to his teammates partway through the season. Once he has that bond he's all for his team. He does care. But otherwise he would just... not go, lol.

 

Then there's my DD1 (nearly 9). First you model the good behavior and expect her to join--but she doesn't. Then you look disappointed and she will literally scream at you for your disappointment. This happened from the age of 18 months on. Then you tell her the natural consequence for her behavior and she will give a counterattack--what she will do if that happens. "If we can't go to the park I will hit you!" Then you let the natural consequence happens and she learns jack-all for that. And this happens again and again. If consequences escalate, within a week your home will be a prison. There is no require. Require is logically equivalent to force, and by force, I mean cause some kind of immediate physical discomfort, such as physically removing her to outside, or dragging her away from the fun / food, or screaming.  Making things a game doesn't work. She will look at you like you're insane and say, "No." It is extremely frustrating for a parent that doesn't believe, in theory, in physical coercion, but who has a child who would have severe dental and other health problems if not FORCED (physical force) to do basic things. I never got how some people could put their kids in time-out. I'd ask her to take "time out to think" and she just looked at me like I was a moron.

 

"Don't you get it? I didn't do what you said then and I won't do what you said now." No intrinsic motivation. Like, you'd have to physically move her to time out while she was flailing and screaming and hitting. Every time.

 

She was like this from the beginning. You know how some parents say "just take the thing away" as if their child wouldn't throw a tantrum that could draw their own blood and yours? That was never, ever my kid.

 

All I can say is that I'm so glad we did gradual toilet training, so both my kids were toilet trained before the age of 18 months in a gentle, gradual, 18 month long process. They were never really in diapers. If it weren't for that she probably would still be in pull-ups in the third grade, that's how non-responsive and stubborn this kid is.

 

That said, we are finally getting there. She is finally beginning to get some empathy and really understand that she's not alone and how hard it is for others when she doesn't do her part and she's making a HUGE effort. But it took a ton of forcing, by physically making her pick up, by holding her hands and making her do the task so that she couldn't avoid it. "We will go to the store, but first we will clean up." And I forced her. Force. Now I can use other tactics but it has taken forever to get here.

 

Then there's DD2 (6). She's a big logical consequences child, but still too young to plan ahead. She will join in games sometimes but a lot of the time she will say, "No, I don't want to play that game." "Okay but you have to or we can't go out." "We could go out with a messy house but you don't want to. You won't let us."

 

"But then we'd come back and have to clean."

 

"No we wouldn't. Some people don't clean for years."

 

"Um... But is that the life you want to live? Not being able to find anything? Remember when you couldn't find teddy?"

 

"I'll just clean up teddy."

 

"No, you'll clean the whole room."

 

Require in this case means stand over so she can concentrate. She's six and a half. Even DD1 could concentrate when she wanted at this age. DD2 is more like DSS. They are living in their own worlds. Still, "force" doesn't require a lot of physical force. If-thens make sense to her. She operates on logic. She might argue but she gets it.

 

Do I force my kids to do things? Now I do. Because once you start physically forcing for little things, such as, "You can't throw rocks at people," and "You must brush your teeth or get them brushed by me" and you realize what you have to do to make this happen, you figure, well, they're already traumatized I guess so why not.  :001_rolleyes:  That train has already left the station!

 

I do pick my battles, but I also feel that if we're going to yell then we might as well distract them from trouble to yell at by giving them other stuff to do, such as learning a foreign language or practicing an instrument or cleaning the bathroom or something.

 

That said, for household chores, at your kids' ages, I think more modeling is required. It needs to be a group effort.

 

However, with one of four types of kids, I have to say, there's a reason that the word "force" is used. Nobody naturally cleans the bathroom or takes out the trash. Some kids are too upset by disapproval to risk that; other kids literally aren't upset by anything and if they are, would still sooner face the consequence than give in. You have to be ready to persist with all of them to teach them what is expected. You can't just do what works for one random person's kids and think that it has to work for your kids.

 

And OP you may find that games work for the little ones and not the older one. Just because it works with one doesn't mean it will work with them all!

 

By the way, I do love all of them dearly. DD1's a very artistic, creative, loving, affectionate person. She means the world to me. But holy cow. Getting her to do stuff has really pushed me to my ultimate limits. And now yes, I am not afraid to force her to do stuff. My goal is to develop good enough habits by the time she's my size that I'll have done what I can. That's all I can do!

[SKL]

Just noticed how young your kids are.  I agree with the others that "go clean your room" might not be a meaningful sentence to a young child.  "Clean your room" is a combination of many tasks organized into a complex operation.

 

My kids are 8/9 and I still will not ask them to go clean something unless it is set up for that.  First their rooms need to be organized, and then they need to know how to keep them organized.  If I send them to the kitchen to sweep, and I want it done "right," I need to check afterwards and explain what isn't right and have them try again possibly several times - and that means I have to be able and willing to take the time for that.  In reality, I usually just turn a blind eye to the dirt in the corners because I have bigger things to worry about.  They still have many years to get this right before they are on their own.

 

As far as them wanting to do it on their own, one thing I do is have them stand back after something is cleaned up, and I ask them how they feel about the way it looks now.  Isn't it nice?  Doesn't it feel so much better to have this area neat / clear?  And I try to ensure that relative neatness is the norm here - even though that means I am often the one straightening up their mess, for now.

[SKL]

Oh yeah, and I have one who is the sweetest, mildest kid, but she doesn't want to do anything that isn't her idea first.  And it never occurs to her to clean, LOL.  OK, once in a blue moon she takes the initiative as a kindness to me, but normally no - and she's a natural slob on top of that.  It's no wonder I pick my battles.  :P

 

This child will politely go to her room if I send her in there to clean, but by the time I check in, she's reading a book - or more likely, she's pulled 20 books off the shelves and piled them on her bed for a reading marathon.  If I tell her to put the books away and get back to cleaning, she will put 3 of them away and then get distracted by some craft and spread that all over the place.  A clean room will only happen if I stand in there with her the whole time, and I usually have better things to do when my kids are home with me.

 

I think this will largely resolve itself as kids get older and their interests move from toys to friends.  And if their houses aren't perfect, well, they won't be alone in that.

[Tammi K]

I am using the word "force" bc I don't know what other word to use.  When you make someone do something, i.e.  DS1 - go clean your room now or you won't be allowed to do x, y, z - to me, that's forcing.  He is not doing bc he thinks it's the right thing to do .  He will be doing it bc there is punishment involved.

 

I am not a fan of punishments, I don't think they have a successful long term effect.  I think it might work for short term and that's it

 

Perhaps you could rephrase your inner dialogue to replace the word punishment with consequence, at least in this case.   

 

Your children are still quite young. I would expect they are not ready to clean their rooms for the greater good. However, the older ones can certainly begin to appreciate the idea that "we must pick up the toys on the floor before we go to the park" or that they can't turn on the television before they do whatever it is you wish for them to do. Likewise, a toy left on the floor can certainly be put out of sight for a period of time so it isn't left where you do not want it to be.  This isn't punishment. It's consequence and it is what happens in the real world.

[J-rap]

 

I don't know about the OP, but I'm not a very consistent person with routine or much else. It's very hard for me to teach routine and enforce it since I'm terrible about it myself. That doesn't sound like the case here, but in case it is I understand how advice like, "establish a routine" can sound easier said than done.

Sadly, I'm the same way.  Sigh.  So what has happened is that my kids who naturally click with living in a clean, organized home are pretty much just self-motivated!  (Although that doesn't happen til they're a little older -- in their teens.)  That doesn't mean our home was a complete disaster.  We did have set basic chores and all, thanks to my husband who was always a better housekeeper than I was.

 

[mom2att]

Very helpful suggestions.

 

I guess I was naive enough to think that if I explain 1000000 times that we each have a job and their jobs are x, y, z - it will actually have some effect.  It's not like I asked them for the first time in their lives and expected immediately to become daily experts on it.

 

May be I didn't start early enough..... and now I am paying for it :(

 

Your kids are 7, 5, and 4? You still have more than a decade of teaching and training ahead of you. You're not even to the halfway point yet. You will have to work beside them and model the chores you want done and the behavior you want expressed for a while yet. Just like you sit with them as they do their schoolwork. The training is now. The reward (for you) is later.

 

My boys are 12 and 15. Saturday morning is our cleaning day. I have my jobs, they have theirs. My teen is actually much better about cleaning the floors than I am, so that's his job. My younger one was doing a terrible job of his chores until I went alongside him one day and showed him how to do it properly. And he's much older than seven. It's lovely to have less cleaning to do because your kids know they have jobs to do as well. But it takes a long time to get there. And IMO, the younger you start, the longer you supervise.

 

When I had young children, their chores were picking up after themselves throughout the day. And most of the time that involved me saying, "Okay let's pick up these toys now. You put away the trains and I'll put away the cars." We also had a one box of toys out at a time rule, so that helped with order and organization.

 

Explain less. Model more. Every day. They are very young yet.

[strange_girl]

Seven is too young to be independently responsible. Seven-year-olds do not have the ability to look around and say, "Wow, this place is really a mess. I should clean this place up for Mom." Most of them don't even have the maturity to remember 2 or 3 simple chores...even if they do them every day. They still need Mom to say, "It's time to feed the cat and put the laundry into the dryer now," because they're so deep in what they're doing they won't even think about it.

 

Maybe when they're 10. Maybe not until they're well into their teens.

 

But our job is really to show them the job, make sure they understand what we expect of them, and then working alongside and reminding/encouraging/forcing them to get it done. Eventually they will be able to both understand why and do it themselves un-reminded by you.

 

But not now.

[Wabi Sabi]

Helping out around the house is definitely an expectation at our house and not optional.

That said, I do have to ask/remind the kids to do things daily. Generally speaking, they'll do what they're asked to do, but they aren't going to necessarily just do it all on their own without being prompted first. 

When we are done eating,  I have to say, "DD, I want you to clear the table and put the dirty dishes in the sink please. DS, while she's doing that you can feed the dogs."

I have to call for DS and when he comes to see what I need hand him the recycling and say, "I need you to slip on some shoes and run this recycling outside to the bin please." Then I'll call out to DD and when she comes, "Here, DD. Slip on some shoes and take this bowl of scraps out to the chickens. Thanks!"

If I'm washing dishes, I'll call out to the kids, "Hey, you guys! I'm going to start the dishwasher. I need you both take a peek in the dining room and make sure there aren't any other dishes on the table and do a quick loop around the house for abandoned coffee mugs please!"

Also, I find it necessary to give the children very specific tasks. Something like "Clean your room!" is very vague and overwhelming, whereas "First pick up all the stuffed animals and put them in the doll crib" is clear and easily accomplished. When younger my children also needed me in there working side by side with them. 
 

[SereneHome]

I think if reasonable consequences don't work, you have to pick your battles.  But, why do you think the reasonable consequences don't work?  Could it be that the kids need more training/guidance in managing the work, or you picked consequences that don't matter to them, or they are choosing to be defiant?  Do they trust that they will in fact have time to do the fun stuff if they do all the work first?  Do you consider it important for your kids to have some free time to do whatever they want?

 

I also think it is a bit unrealistic to say adults always do their duties first before they do anything fun.  As long as it all gets done on time - and you generally do a good day's work - who cares what gets done first?  I think most adults will take breaks throughout the day to check in with people socially, get some entertainment/exercise, or just relax.  Before kids, I normally started my day with an hour of personal reading.  I got on a roll with work later in the day.  No harm done.

 

May be I bring a lot of my own baggage into the situation.  I am a HUGE procrastinator.   I will do the fun things and will just keep putting off the "have to" things.  It cost me dearly through out my life.  Financially and otherwise.

 

I want better for my kids.  So even if their "nature" is the same as mine, I want them to learn better habits.  And I know from personal experience that learning those habits later in life oh so so so much harder.