Sdel Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I need some perspective. I have a set of grandparents that want a visit with a grandson. He is just over 2 years old and he doesn't have routine contact with them....maybe a quarterly visit for just a couple of days. They live 4 hours away, one way. On a past visit we've had to cut it short after he refused to eat/drink and spazzed out for 24 hours, resulting in dehydration and an ER trip. This set of grandparents also don't seem to take great care of him and he frequently comes back with a diaper rash and slight sniffles. Grandparents don't have the best judgment, are generally flakes, and the grandmother specifically has a substance abuse/DUI history. We have no way to judge her current sobriety habits. They want him to visit for 7 days on his own. The baby has never visited anyone for longer than 4 days. His other grandparents he has seen more often and he's never had the refusals to eat, dehydration, diaper rash issues with them that he has had from the other set, but still has not been with them more than 4 days. Am I unreasonable for not wanting a 2 year old to be away from his main caregivers for more than 4 days? Would you let your two year old visit these particular grandparent for 7 days? Stefanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Nope. I'd make a family trip if they want to see him, where you go with him. Or they can visit you. No way. 25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Insane!! 7 days is 6.5 days too long for a 2yo!! Eta-my kids have awesome grandparents and I still would never consider 7 days!! 32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolatechip Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Nopeity nope nope nope. No way. One day is more than enough given the circumstances described. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnE-girl Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Over my dead body. Sorry, is that too strong? There's absolutely no reason for people he doesn't know that well, who don't even care for him well, to have him for that length of time just for the sake of a visit. 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daria Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Umm, we lived with my mom, who has none of the issues you mention, when DS was 2 and I wouldn't have left for 7 days. I am definitely over protective, but I don't think you are at all. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergreen State Sue Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 No, I wouldn't allow it at that young of age. He doesn't seem to handle being away very well (not to mention the grandmother's history). Any way you can have the grandparents stay with you so you can supervise their visitation? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I wouldn't do it at that age anyway, let alone with a dc with special health needs and with people who can't care for him at the level he needs. And fwiw, I already told my mother she will NEVER have my ds over. My dd I let go over for a week at a time, no problem. She started when she was about 12. (Like yours, my family lives 4-5 hours away.) My ds has more special needs, and I basically told my mother it's a never, not to even ask. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yucabird Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 No. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 No. They need some perspective. 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Nope. I am definitely not a worry wart, but nope to this one. I might be willing for 2 or 3 days but only if there was someone sure to be sober in the house all the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planner Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 He's far too young for that long of a visit. Previous visits did not end well. There's no way I would consider this request, let alone allow it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 No. (It's a complete sentence. ) 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 You are not even near the realm of unreasonable. I agree that an afternoon is plenty long enough to be alone with the grandparents at that age, if you need them to babysit. Aside from that, it'd be family visits on the weekend. Especially if they have questionable standards of care. I wouldn't leave a child overnight with them at all, never mind a whole week. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sdel Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 No, I wouldn't allow it at that young of age. He doesn't seem to handle being away very well (not to mention the grandmother's history). Any way you can have the grandparents stay with you so you can supervise their visitation? It is not an option. I'm an "other grandparent" with custody...and these are my DIL's parents. Part of our issues with this is my grandsons parents will be there part time over the weekend, and while he knows them well enough to not spazz while they are there.....they are on supervised visits only. The grandparents in question have already tried to get us to break our court order of supervised visitation by allowing them to drive him for the visit. It is patently obvious to us that these visits (arranged by my DIL and not spontaneously by the grandparents) are a game for unsupervised custody time because they only get requested when the parents will be there. We only allow them in order to remain above board on not denying the other grandparents to know their grandchild. It's a fine line to walk... Stefanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjffkj Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I would be fine with my 2 year old spending 7 days with someone else he knew well and I knew took good care of him. This is because I know he would be fine as long as his siblings were with him. In what you describe I probably wouldn't let those grandparents watch him at all without another responsible adult present. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tammyw Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 NO.WAY. But then again, my 9 and 12 yos wouldn't do that either. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Well my toddler can go with the grandparents for as long as they'll take her. I'd be thrilled. But your situation isn't normal and I'd say if they cannot take care of the kid adequately then shorter visits are more sensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I'm not sure why you're even entertaining the question. He's TWO, not 10. ETA just saw your second post. I can't imagine unsupervised visits or even a supervised visit of that length. I'm sorry for your complicated situation. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'smom Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I would never do that. You are not being overprotective. I probably wouldn't let a 2 year old go 7 days without me even if the caregivers were excellent, unless there was a really good reason, like I was in the hospital or something. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sdel Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 I'm not sure why you're even entertaining the question. He's TWO, not 10. Hubby's sense of morality........most certainly not mine. I'm a NO, H NO, but I have to live with my husband. Stefanie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abba12 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I need some perspective. They live 4 hours away, one way. On a past visit we've had to cut it short after he refused to eat/drink and spazzed out for 24 hours, resulting in dehydration and an ER trip. This set of grandparents also don't seem to take great care of him No. No. Hell No. Even with grandparents who I trust in every way, who probably take better care and attention to the kids than me, I might leave a mature 2yo overnight, one night, that's it. Grandparents who the child has spazzed around and who don't take good care of the child? No. They can have him for prolonged visits when he is old enough to take care of himself and many of these care issues are less problematic. That's the case with the inlaws. The kids do not stay there overnight right now and will not until they're probably 8 or so and can take care of themselves and see past FILs 'issues'. But he's two! I know people who wouldn't let their two year old stay alone, anywhere, at all. So you're far from being unreasonable. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Hubby's sense of morality........most certainly not mine. I'm a NO, H NO, but I have to live with my husband. Stefanie I saw your second post and edited my first while you were posting this. I'm sorry you have to deal with this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I need some perspective. I have a set of grandparents that want a visit with a grandson. He is just over 2 years old and he doesn't have routine contact with them....maybe a quarterly visit for just a couple of days. They live 4 hours away, one way. On a past visit we've had to cut it short after he refused to eat/drink and spazzed out for 24 hours, resulting in dehydration and an ER trip. This set of grandparents also don't seem to take great care of him and he frequently comes back with a diaper rash and slight sniffles. Grandparents don't have the best judgment, are generally flakes, and the grandmother specifically has a substance abuse/DUI history. We have no way to judge her current sobriety habits. They want him to visit for 7 days on his own. The baby has never visited anyone for longer than 4 days. His other grandparents he has seen more often and he's never had the refusals to eat, dehydration, diaper rash issues with them that he has had from the other set, but still has not been with them more than 4 days. Am I unreasonable for not wanting a 2 year old to be away from his main caregivers for more than 4 days? Would you let your two year old visit these particular grandparent for 7 days? Stefanie There is no way on God's green earth that I would allow a 2yo to spend a whole week with people he barely knows. Not even overnight. Nope. If these are your in-laws, then their son needs to have a discussion with them and tell them in no uncertain terms that no, your 2yo will not be spending any time in their home. Because two years old. If these are your parents, you need to tell them the same thing. I don't care that they live 4 hours away. That's nothing. They can come up and visit. The end. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 It would be different if the two year old wanted to go, but with the combo of custody issues and his own lack of desire I think working up to longer visits is a very gradual thing and needs to be handled as such. There has to be a relationship there before such a long drop off - little ones don't understand that kind of separation like adults do and it seems like it would be unnecessarily traumatic. My kids spend each Saturday with their grandparents and my in laws are awesome. The kids love it. They do sleepovers every month or two, as well. Seven days would be just fine even for the two year old, because she knows and loves her grandparents. You're dealing with an entirely different situation and not being unreasonable at all. I'd consent to a day trip, max, unless someone else was staying, too, who the child was familiar with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Hubby's sense of morality........most certainly not mine. I'm a NO, H NO, but I have to live with my husband. Stefanie I regret to say that Mr. Stefanie has a messed up sense of morality. I don't even know how "morality" comes into this. Your son's welfare comes first. 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abba12 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 It is not an option. I'm an "other grandparent" with custody...and these are my DIL's parents. Part of our issues with this is my grandsons parents will be there part time over the weekend, and while he knows them well enough to not spazz while they are there.....they are on supervised visits only. The grandparents in question have already tried to get us to break our court order of supervised visitation by allowing them to drive him for the visit. Oh my god.... NO, nope, definitely not, no way, NOOOOOO Why do they need him for a week unsupervised? Is there any chance they may try to take off with the child? I don't know the reason for supervised visits but you are bound by law here. Bending the rules for an afternoon is very different to giving them a week of unsupervised access, where they may take him or any number of other things. That order is there for a reason, whatever that reason is. If there's issues about access they need to be brought up with the social worker or whoever your contact is in this situation. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergreen State Sue Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 It is not an option. I'm an "other grandparent" with custody...and these are my DIL's parents. Part of our issues with this is my grandsons parents will be there part time over the weekend, and while he knows them well enough to not spazz while they are there.....they are on supervised visits only. The grandparents in question have already tried to get us to break our court order of supervised visitation by allowing them to drive him for the visit. It is patently obvious to us that these visits (arranged by my DIL and not spontaneously by the grandparents) are a game for unsupervised custody time because they only get requested when the parents will be there. We only allow them in order to remain above board on not denying the other grandparents to know their grandchild. It's a fine line to walk... Stefanie I got a little lost in your pronouns, but from what I gather there is a problem not only with the grandparents, but with the mother of this little boy. So glad you are the stability for your grandson. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Since you're legally bound to provide more access, do you have more ways to do this? We like to meet my mother for half-way trips. That way we each just drive 2 hours. We can have a nice day and do the zoo, eat out, etc., and have a whole day together and then go home to our own homes. Or can you go and stay in a hotel there and not actually leave him at their house overnight? Or arrange a trip to some multi-day thing together? Sorry it's hard. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnE-girl Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 After reading your additional information, if you have sole custody, I would say being open to meeting the other grandparents at a park if they came to visit your area is sufficient. If you don't have a court order to allow that much time with the other grandparents, you're under no obligation to facilitate any more time that the court mandates. If you are supposed to allow overnight visits, I would be documenting everything very clearly to protect your grandson from being subjected to any more of these visits. His needs trump the other grandparents' "right" to a relationship with him. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sdel Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 I regret to say that Mr. Stefanie has a messed up sense of morality. I don't even know how "morality" comes into this. Your son's welfare comes first. Its primarily a "do unto other's" issue with him. He wants to treat them as he would want them to treat him if the situation was reversed. I think he's also a little afraid they'll fund the bio parents in a custody battle if we push back too much. Stefanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 It is not an option. I'm an "other grandparent" with custody...and these are my DIL's parents. Part of our issues with this is my grandsons parents will be there part time over the weekend, and while he knows them well enough to not spazz while they are there.....they are on supervised visits only. The grandparents in question have already tried to get us to break our court order of supervised visitation by allowing them to drive him for the visit. It is patently obvious to us that these visits (arranged by my DIL and not spontaneously by the grandparents) are a game for unsupervised custody time because they only get requested when the parents will be there. We only allow them in order to remain above board on not denying the other grandparents to know their grandchild. It's a fine line to walk... Stefanie :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Ok, so, the court order is *supervised* visits. There's your answer. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I talk to the trees Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Practice saying the following sentence while smiling sweetly, "Sorry, but that doesn't work for us." Repeat as necessary. Sorry you have to deal with this! Eta: Ah! I just read your additional information. What an icky situation. I think that changes my above answer to a firm, "No. And you know why." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Nope. I wouldn't be doing 4 days either. Honestly, anyone whose "care" could not cope with the eating/drinking situation, to the point that it resulted in hospitalization -- would not be having unsupervised visits at all. That's child abuse (though unintended) and it isn't a situation I would tolerate. Period. At 2, I was comfortable with my parents (who frequently did daytime care, *competently*) to do overnight care for a day or two. It's not about the age or the relationship. It's simple competence: they can't handle the job. They have demonstrated that they can't handle the job. Handing your child to people who you know won't care for him well is *exactly the same* as not caring for him well yourself. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Its primarily a "do unto other's" issue with him. He wants to treat them as he would want them to treat him if the situation was reversed. I think he's also a little afraid they'll fund the bio parents in a custody battle if we push back too much. Stefanie A small boy is an other to be done unto too. It's a breach of trust to put him in an unhealthy situation if it can be avoided. 34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisbeth Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 No, a thousand times, no. Questionable sobriety means the person in question has no access to the small person in my care until at least a year of proveable sobriety and stability has been achieved. That is really the bottom line for me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sdel Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 Oh my god.... NO, nope, definitely not, no way, NOOOOOO Why do they need him for a week unsupervised? Is there any chance they may try to take off with the child? I don't know the reason for supervised visits but you are bound by law here. Bending the rules for an afternoon is very different to giving them a week of unsupervised access, where they may take him or any number of other things. That order is there for a reason, whatever that reason is. If there's issues about access they need to be brought up with the social worker or whoever your contact is in this situation. No social worker. We are permanent possessory custodians, with the bio parents being non-possessory. The parents have no decision making power and are limited to 4 hour supervised visits. We've done everything we can to push these grandparents in to divorcing their visits from the parents and the only ones they follow through on are the ones the parents have set up and attend at least part of the time. We always fear a run away, but so far it hasn't happened, and we do take measures to monitor that. We are technically *not* breaking our order by allowing these visits until we have proof of them breaking the rules and continue to allow it. So far, no proof, just a very good hunch at the reality. Stefanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sdel Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Ok, so, the court order is *supervised* visits. There's your answer. And no proof to the contrary that they were perfectly supervised. Stefanie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 A child is not a pawn to be shuffled back and forth to satisfy petty immature addicts. I know people who wouldn't treat their dogs like that. Apparently this is a traumatic situation for this little boy, it violates the court order, and it's wrong to put a small child with no advocate in that place. I'd get in touch with my social worker and make sure that she was aware of the situation. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I wouldn't let my child visit with this particular grandparent for ONE day without me. We have a grandparent situation where sobriety is a concern, despite the fact that the grandfather adores this grandchild. Because of the sobriety issue, and the fighting between grandparents, grandchild is no longer allowed to visit them. That grandchild is almost 14 (and my daughter), not 2. There is no way in Hades that I would allow a 2 year old to be with such grandparents without me. Not for 7 days, 4 days, or 1 day. There's my perspective, for your perspective, for what it's worth ;) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 At that age, the longest I stayed away was a long weekend and that was two children together with familiar grandparents. I would not let my child stay in the situation you've described. ETA: Read the rest of the thread. Your husband's primary concern should be the child, not the adults. The child is not well-cared for when he visits his other grandparents. No. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displace Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I don't allow unsupervised visits with some people who happen to be very close relatives. If they aren't initiating contact I wouldn't even offer. Rest of post deleted d/t other details given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Nyssa Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Re: do unto others: yes, but if your DH was a person who was not safe to be around a child and could potentially harm said child, the kindest thing he would want done to him would be not to be put in that situation where he was to care for said child for 7 days alone. Btw I wouldn't let him go in that situation even if he were 12 or 15. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMD Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 No way. Just no. Not in the realm of possibility. My youngest is nearly 2, over my dead body about covers it (though add my husbands dead body too). I wouldn't even do it with competent grandparents who adore him. As for your husband, it is admirable that he's trying to do the right thing. But people don't buy acces with shared blood, they earn it with responsible behaviour. Even the court agrees, supervised visits are in place for a reason. Honestly, I find it a little disingenuous to say that you can't do anything because you don't have proof, you have reasonable suspicion - can't you run it past a case worker? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momacacia Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 No way. Be tough if you have too. I'd only send a kid with grandparents like that for a week when they were capable of defending themselves, could call you and/ or the police, etc. I am overprotective and don't care what anyone says. I would consider letting my 10yo go to a set of less protective (though very nice and without issues) grandparents for a few days. I'm not sure about the 6yo and the 2yo is completely out, because my MIL is incapable of keeping track of kids without getting distracted and they don't take the hazard of their poorly gated pool seriously at all. The facts you present would be an absolute hill I would die on for the sake of my child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristi26 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I would not allow that. Absolutely not. A family trip together, yes. Alone? No. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Insane!! 7 days is 6.5 days too long for a 2yo!! Eta-my kids have awesome grandparents and I still would never consider 7 days!! I think I'm a pretty awesome grandparent and I would never suggest 7 days away from mom and dad for a 2yr old either. He will not do well. If something goes wrong he cannot speak up for himself and let you know. My own kids were school aged before they ever did any kind of overnighter (and that was just ONE night). One child slept overnight at a neighbors house and I still got a tearful call at 2am wanting to come home. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73349 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I would not turn a 2yo over to Bill and Martha Sears for a whole week if s/he didn't know them well, if I could help it. At 2, the longest DS was away from me and DH at a time was four hours, with a regular and 100% trustworthy caregiver. He still didn't like it, but I wasn't concerned for his wellbeing. With the people you're describing, a few hours is the most I would consider at all. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Well, it's pretty unanimous that none of us would even consider doing this with our own kids at that age. In other words, a large group of people with really diverse views on parenting say no way. This situation sounds tough. Since you're bound to provide more access, I would maybe try to arrange with them to meet them regularly halfway or look for other creative solutions that fulfill that goal without leaving him overnight. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Morality dictates protecting the most vulnerable person in any situation. A two year old is very vulnerable. 21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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