S/O angry...supermarket - a random thought on diversity

[snickerplum]

We just moved from a teeny tiny Midwestern town full of white people. Every once and a while you'd see a person of color, and chances are they'd just stopped for gas. We've moved to a much (much) larger area and I'm loving all of the different people! Who knows how many languages I'll hear when we go to the grocery store/DMV/mall. So many people with such different backgrounds - I'm finding it quite refreshing.

My children weren't sure what to think when we first got here. One held on to me when we'd go out. One asked why so many people were brown. They like to hear others speak in foreign languages now. It's been such a pleasant experience.

It makes me sad why "different" means "bad" to some.

[SparklyUnicorn]

My area is like that and I mostly like it too.  Probably the only downside is it seems there are a lot of people who walk around with chips on their shoulders.  I don't know if it is a survival thing or what.

 

 

[Guest]

In my state, there are areas of tremendous diversity minutes away from homogenous areas. The private school my son attends (and dd just graduated from) is 15 minutes in one direction, and is known for great diversity. The community college I just graduated from, 15 minutes in a different direction is almost entirely white. When DS attended my grad ceremony, I said, "Did you notice anything about the students that graduated today?" He said, "Yes. Everyone was white." So there can be a lot of demographic variation, even within a small geographic region.

[Anne in CA]

We lived in a very ethnically diverse area in Oregon and now we live someplace where it took me weeks to bump into someone who was not white, other than East Indian people who come to visit the national park. It feels weird to have everyone look so much the same, to be honest.

[Chris in VA]

I grew up in a place jokingly called, "Caucasian Falls." When we moved to FL, it was quite a change.

Now I live somewhere very diverse--love it.

[marbel]

I've lived all my adult life in large metropolitan areas with a diverse population, so I don't know any different.   I guess, though, if I moved to a place that was less diverse, I'd get used to it.   I suppose I wouldn't choose to live in a place where nearly everyone was white, but if that was otherwise the best place for us to go (for a job, for example), I guess we'd manage it.

 

My kids have been looking at colleges and they are always interested in the pie charts of different racial representation at the schools.  They seem to be leaning toward more diverse schools, so I guess they take it for granted too.

[Garga]

We moved from a diverse area to an all-white area. I don't like it. I run into lots more racism around here than where I used to live. Blah. Don't like it!!

[Peaceful Isle]

My kids have never really talked about different races, colors, or what have you. They know there are variety in the human world, but they don't think much about it. One lady at church, mentioned to me how wonderful it was that my kids seem to love all the different ethnicity of people at our church. She is a completely different culture than our family, and we love her and she loves us.

 

My oldest girl has two best friends. One is a sweet toe headed blond girl, the other is a beautiful mixed racial girl with dark curly hair.  

We are all one blood, and I have always taught my children that from birth. 

Yes, people will and do have chips on their shoulders, but not everyone. My mother and father are very racist. I grew up that way, and vowed to never be that way, ever. It has been wonderful to see my children love others like Jesus did. 

Anyways, just my 2 cents.

[Guest]

I've lived in both kinds of areas. I like both. It's so much more about the attitude one holds and teaches than the color of the neighborhood. When it becomes us vs them it's never pretty, whether they're you're next door neighbor or on 'that' side of town. The issue is the heart.

[HS Mom in NC]

It really isn't that simple, Taryl. 

 

Kids need to see themselves mirrored in their community to feel good about themselves - or rather, to optimise their comfort and self- acceptance in a community.

 

We could live in an area with the nicest, kindest, least racist white people ever, and it still would be isolating for my kids.

 

Yes!

 

 As the Caucasian parent of a Korean adoptee, it's important that she not be the only Asian around.  When we were considering a move about 7 years ago we used the US Census data to consider what the Asian population would be if we moved different places. 

 

My kids see Native Americans, Asians and Hispanics several times a week. 

 

She attends a local Tae Kwon Do school run by a Korean immigrant and his Caucasian American wife. It's run as an Asian school, so most of the parents whose kids attend are Asian immigrants of all sorts or first generation Asian Americans.  I'm one of 3 redheads who enter the building each week.  25% of the students at most are Caucasian. That school was answer to prayer.

 

Crazy story-About 5 years ago we went to South Port, North Carolina for my husband's work for 2 weeks.  It's a beach town and all white as far as I could tell.  No one stared at us or said anything racist that we could see or hear.  Then we went to The Smithsonian in Washington D.C. for a week.  We stayed in Rockville, Maryland and took the metro in.  Rockville has a high Asian immigrant population.  Guess where she got stared at and pointed at?  In Maryland, by Asian people.  Didn't see it coming. I should've though.  She doesn't like to go to our local Asian market because Asian people stare at us when we're together.  They don't stare at me when I go without her.   White people never stare at us-ever. I think it's a cultural thing where staring and pointing aren't considered rude in some or all Asian cultures.   Here your white mom will smack you in the head and scold you if you do that.

[luuknam]

It really isn't that simple, Taryl. 

 

Kids need to see themselves mirrored in their community to feel good about themselves - or rather, to optimise their comfort and self- acceptance in a community.

 

We could live in an area with the nicest, kindest, least racist white people ever, and it still would be isolating for my kids.

 

I'm not Taryl, but if you lived in a homogeneous population of your kids' skin color, then that would solve that problem, without living in a diverse community.

 

We briefly lived in a town called Whitewright... not sure where that name came from, but it made me sort of roll my eyes.

 

The TKD-school my kids attend is run by a Lebanese-Venezualan guy and I've heard all sorts of languages there, including Bhutanese (had to ask what it was, since I did not figure that one out on my own). It's probably the most diverse place I've ever been.

[Scarlett]

I grew up in an all white county.  Only one kid was mixed....he was a foster child.  

 

I was however raised by a mother who actively taught against the racism that was all around us.  She is awesome.

 

 

[snickerplum]

I was a military brat, too! I never even thought of that and my liking diverse areas, but maybe that has something to do with it. There was always someone new at school and we'd all lived different places and had different backgrounds.

[KrissiK]

We have a racially mixed family, and we live in a pretty racially mixed community though the dominant culture is Hispanic at about 80% or more. On our own block we have Caucasian, Hispanic, Chinese, Japanese, and Palestinian. It kinds of irks me, though, when it is always implied that the Caucasians have the corner on racism because it's the Chinese boy, who is a few years older than my oldest (who is bi-racial), who is the only one who has called him a "n&@)er".

[SKL]

We lucked into a mixed race neighborhood.  We moved here long before my kids were born.  But I always had a preference for a mixed community.  And I don't just mean black and white, I mean people from different overseas cultures.  My household is mixed, my kids' preschool/KG was mixed.  Their elementary school isn't so mixed, but it has some diversity.  Lots better than when I was a kid; this urban area was very de facto segregated then.

[chiguirre]

I've lived in both kinds of areas. I like both. It's so much more about the attitude one holds and teaches than the color of the neighborhood. When it becomes us vs them it's never pretty, whether they're you're next door neighbor or on 'that' side of town. The issue is the heart.

The problem isn't your heart, it's other people's hearts. I never gave the issue much consideration until I had a few enlightening encounters in my parents' not very diverse town. It's uncomfortable to be the out group. I would definitely take diversity into consideration if we had to move and avoid areas where we would stand out.

[Wabi Sabi]

We live in a very white town, although there is a decent Asian student population because of the university. When my kids went to private school there were quite a few other students whose families were from China, India, etc., but not one single African-American child in the school that I can recall. The people of color here tend to be affiliated with the university and fairly well-to-do. 

I do wish there was more diversity here, but at the same time, this is our home. It's where we work, it's where we're rooted, our families are nearby. If we were to ever move I would certainly take diversity into consideration, but at the same time, this is our community, our home, and it would be very difficult for us to ever leave. 
 

[happypamama]

We moved from a diverse area to an all-white area. I don't like it. I run into lots more racism around here than where I used to live. Blah. Don't like it!!

That's maybe the biggest downside to living here, the lack of acceptance for all races, and just the lack of diversity. (I have yet to visit the Mexican grocery store ten minutes away, mainly because I'm also not sure if that's culturally "okay." Like, will they think it's weird that I come into their store, like I'm butting into something that they see as theirs? I did get a good reception when I bought spices at the Indian grocery store in the bigger town up north a bit, but it's not a neighborhood store like the Mexican one is. I don't want to make a cultural faux pas.)

 

When we lived outside of DC, we lived in one of the less expensive counties. We were the minorities on our block. But our neighbors were a lot more pleasant to us than I know a lot of people are to minorities in other places.

[TravelingChris]

We have lived in communities that were mixed for most of my adult life.  One, my husband was military,  We started out our adult lives in Chicago and we lived in neighborhoods that were mixed.  Then almost all the places we lived in had different nationalities or races or ethnicities around.  It depended how much.  Like here my next door neighbors are all white but further out there is more diversity.  My church shares a building with a Korean language service and once a month we have joint English/Korean language service.  

 

One of the ways we also had more diversity was homeschooling- we met so many people of different religions, ethnicities, countries, etc with homeschooling.  It was always more diverse than the schools my kids would have been attending.  I mean my kids had friends with homeschooling dads, different religions, different races, different socio-economic status, etc, etc.  Homeschooling has been the best way we found to have diversity --- really different experience than many here have had but probably based on the specific communities we lived in and also what homeschooling co-ops and groups we chose to associate with.  

[TravelingChris]

ANd I agree totally with some of the other posters that your heart may be in the right place, but it can get very ugly if others aren't like minded.  

 

Also that it is important to see others around who are like you.  Children come up with very different reasoning than adults and I know that one of the ideas they often have is if they see no one who looks like them doing X, they often come to the conclusion they can't do X. 

[Luanne]

I think if people would stop making such a big deal about race and color, the world would be a lot better place.  This also applies to people who won't live in an area because it is all white people.  Live where you like and don't concentrate on what race the people around you are.  If anything, whites are the ones being discriminated against now. 

[Guest]

I think if people would stop making such a big deal about race and color, the world would be a lot better place. This also applies to people who won't live in an area because it is all white people. Live where you like and don't concentrate on what race the people around you are. If anything, whites are the ones being discriminated against now.

So, you know lots of white people who have been denied housing? Receive a lower wage? Are wrongly accused of a crime?

[Tanaqui]

If anything, whites are the ones being discriminated against now.

 

Oh, this should be good.... :001_rolleyes:

 

Please, do tell us how whites are disproportionately under-represented on television and in movies and books and the government. Tell us how whites are more likely to go to prison than blacks even when committing the same crimes - and how a black guy with a prison record is more likely to get a job interview than a white guy without one. Tell us how white infants have a higher mortality rate than black ones, and how black children have lower rates of asthma than whites. Tell us, oh wise one!

[Tanaqui]

So if non-white people aren't willing to move to an area because it's "too white", is there any hope?

 

It seems to me that "it's too white" is frequently a not-so-subtle code for "I don't feel welcome there, I'm worried about my children's self-esteem, people call the cops if I walk through that neighborhood, they follow me around in stores, those people laugh at the way I speak and do my hair, I don't feel welcome there". So it's not solely up to POC to integrate majority-white areas.

 

[CaffeineDiary]

I think if people would stop making such a big deal about race and color, the world would be a lot better place. This also applies to people who won't live in an area because it is all white people. Live where you like and don't concentrate on what race the people around you are. If anything, whites are the ones being discriminated against now.

This is really a pretty shameful paragraph.

[Tanaqui]

I have yet to visit the Mexican grocery store ten minutes away, mainly because I'm also not sure if that's culturally "okay." Like, will they think it's weird that I come into their store, like I'm butting into something that they see as theirs?

 

Pretty sure the store owners only care about the color of your money. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Guest]

I think if people would stop making such a big deal about race and color, the world would be a lot better place. This also applies to people who won't live in an area because it is all white people. Live where you like and don't concentrate on what race the people around you are. If anything, whites are the ones being discriminated against now.

Luanne, you do this a lot. You jump into a thread, post an inflammatory statement and then never come back. It would be really great if you could back up your thoughts with some facts.

[Audrey]

Pretty sure the store owners only care about the color of your money. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

Sort of, yes.  Where I grew up there were a lot of small Cuban grocery stores.  We shopped there a lot and the people were always happy to have the business, but were also very friendly when you tried to ask for things in Spanish, and they seemed to like to be helpful about it.  I learned most of my Spanish that way.  Where I am now (well, near-ish to where I am now), there are some Eastern European groceries.  We like shopping there for the same reasons -- the diversity of offerings, the friendliness of the owners/staff, the chance to try to learn something new.  I think you just have to be willing to be open to something different. 

[Audrey]

And, FWIW, I grew up in a very racially diverse area in the US and now live in a very white area (in Canada).  There are many ethnicities in my current area, but few non-whites.  I encountered far more racism where I grew up than here, though.  I am not sure if the diversity or lack thereof is a contributing factor, or if the difference in countries is the contributing factor.  Or maybe a bit of both?

[shawthorne44]

That's maybe the biggest downside to living here, the lack of acceptance for all races, and just the lack of diversity. (I have yet to visit the Mexican grocery store ten minutes away, mainly because I'm also not sure if that's culturally "okay." Like, will they think it's weird that I come into their store, like I'm butting into something that they see as theirs? I did get a good reception when I bought spices at the Indian grocery store in the bigger town up north a bit, but it's not a neighborhood store like the Mexican one is. I don't want to make a cultural faux pas.)

 

When we lived outside of DC, we lived in one of the less expensive counties. We were the minorities on our block. But our neighbors were a lot more pleasant to us than I know a lot of people are to minorities in other places.

 

Go to the Mexican store!   Really!  I've been the gringo in the Mexican store and it wasn't a problem at all.  There were a few culture shocks.  Like that lard deserved an aisle label, but ketchup did not.  

 

I starting shopping there when I lived in a nouveau riche area, with the stress on the nouveau part.  People were darn right rude and nasty at the grocery store near where I lived, and it was expensive.   So, I started shopping in my way home from work.  It was lovely.  In the snooty store, people would leave their cart in the middle of the aisle and snarl at you if you asked them to move it, or just flat refused.  In the Mexican store people were embarrassed that they'd left the cart in the aisle, and people were just so darned polite (and the prices were better)

[marbel]

That's maybe the biggest downside to living here, the lack of acceptance for all races, and just the lack of diversity. (I have yet to visit the Mexican grocery store ten minutes away, mainly because I'm also not sure if that's culturally "okay." Like, will they think it's weird that I come into their store, like I'm butting into something that they see as theirs? I did get a good reception when I bought spices at the Indian grocery store in the bigger town up north a bit, but it's not a neighborhood store like the Mexican one is. I don't want to make a cultural faux pas.)

 

When we lived outside of DC, we lived in one of the less expensive counties. We were the minorities on our block. But our neighbors were a lot more pleasant to us than I know a lot of people are to minorities in other places.

 

I've no idea where you live or what it's like there, but I can tell you my experience.  I've lived in the suburbs of large(ish) cities all my adult life.   I've always felt welcomes in the ethnic grocery stores but I have always made sure to do a couple of things:  1.  smile and say hello when walking in.  2.  ask questions.  3.  show enthusiasm.  4.  don't let my children say "that [food item] looks weird."

 

Seriously, I remember the first time I walked into a Mexican produce stand and got the look, but as soon as I saw the array of vegetables I'd never seen before, I said "I came in for a few jalapenos but wow I've never seen so many different chiles, can you tell me how to use some of these?"  And everyone was all smiles and helpful.

 

Another time I went into an Asian store with a list of ingredients for hot and sour soup, and just felt lost. Once I asked for help, They were so nice.  

 

But it always took me asking questions, showing I was interested in buying and cooking their food, not just being a tourist.

[creekland]

That's maybe the biggest downside to living here, the lack of acceptance for all races, and just the lack of diversity. (I have yet to visit the Mexican grocery store ten minutes away, mainly because I'm also not sure if that's culturally "okay." Like, will they think it's weird that I come into their store, like I'm butting into something that they see as theirs? I did get a good reception when I bought spices at the Indian grocery store in the bigger town up north a bit, but it's not a neighborhood store like the Mexican one is. I don't want to make a cultural faux pas.)

 

 

I miss seeing the prejudice you and Garga talk about, or at least, I see it very, very little - no more than I see in the large southern city my in-laws live near or the smaller rural southern area hubby grew up in.  Perhaps the next generation (teens in high school) is doing better than the older generation?  We don't have a super large proportion of minorities, but ALL of those I see mix together well in class, in clubs, in sports, and dating.  Every now and then I get to address a comment and if I get nowhere with it, school admin will back me up considerably.  Our principal is AA and I've never heard a derogatory (racial) comment about that from anyone in school or out.

 

The Mexican store, by all means, go.  Chat with the people there.  Ask suggestions.  You could easily find they enter your circle of friends (at least for shopping) pretty quickly.

 

FWIW, I just checked our state site for my high school's demographics:

 

87% White

10% Hispanic

  2% Black

  1% Asian

 

Each year we also have a few exchange students.  Where they fit in tends to depend upon their country of origin.

 

When we pass by the high school in the city my in-laws live in there's definitely more diversity, but the vast majority of students walking out were with their own race.  It's different, but I'm not sure it's better.  I'd prefer more diversity, but lack of it doesn't necessarily mean prejudice.

 

 

[Halftime Hope]

nevermind

 

[mommaduck]

wrong thread.

[Kalmia]

That's maybe the biggest downside to living here, the lack of acceptance for all races, and just the lack of diversity. (I have yet to visit the Mexican grocery store ten minutes away, mainly because I'm also not sure if that's culturally "okay." Like, will they think it's weird that I come into their store, like I'm butting into something that they see as theirs? I did get a good reception when I bought spices at the Indian grocery store in the bigger town up north a bit, but it's not a neighborhood store like the Mexican one is. I don't want to make a cultural faux pas.)

 

 

My (white) husband ate lunch every day at the Mexican grocery for seven years (they had prepared food as well as groceries and a couple of tables). Unlike the Mexican restaurant on the same street, it was frequented by day laborers and farm workers. My husband  was one of their best customers and they knew he loooooved their cooking. They invited him to their grandchild's first birthday party and he went and had a great time. Don't hesitate to go and support their small business and get good food and authentic ingredients!

[happypamama]

Okay, thank you Hive, for seeing my question in the spirit it was intended! We love Mexican food, so we should definitely see what they have. Methinks I will not go there for the first time with four small boys, LOL, so that I can actually take some time and enjoy it. I could take one or two of them at a time, and then we'd be able to discuss cultural differences so that I could stay on top of the "that looks weird" questions. (My mom said the same thing: don't expect them to cater to you by speaking English, but otherwise, they'll be perfectly happy to have your business.)

 

Creekland, I haven't seen a ton of racism around here, although I hear it occasionally. I think it's more that there isn't much opportunity for the topic even to come up in a natural sort of way.

[mom@shiloh]

It really isn't that simple, Taryl. 

 

Kids need to see themselves mirrored in their community to feel good about themselves - or rather, to optimise their comfort and self- acceptance in a community.

 

We could live in an area with the nicest, kindest, least racist white people ever, and it still would be isolating for my kids.

 

"Kids need to see themselves mirrored in their community to feel good about themselves"

 

I disagree, or rather, my internationally adopted kids disagree.  We live in an area that is primarily white and my kids aren't, but we are near a large city where there's lots of diversity and we go there sometimes. I've asked my kids (mostly teenagers) how they feel about seeing people of their own race and they've all given me a blank look and then said that it didn't matter at all to them.  

 

I just want to share that because there's enough burden to carry with adoption and mixed race families without adding to it -- not the op intention, I'm sure, but since my kids have commented on it I wanted to share it.  

[Btervet]

I live in a very diverse area outside of DC and I love, love, love it. I grew up in the deep south, with two highly segregated cultures, so it's been a huge change for me. I am so grateful I get to raise my kids in a diverse area where different ethnicities are the norm. I know this might seem petty to some, but my DS, without prompting, picks out dolls of different skin tones, and draws pictures will all shades of skin on people. Comparing that to my childhood, where we didn't make eye contact with the blacks, and neighborhoods were segregated white vs. black, it seems HUGE. DS gets to go shopping at the Ethiopian market, the Asian market, and the Mexican Market. 

 

The one thing I hate about this area is that the homeschool community is virtually all white. It's insane. Our county is only 47% white, but I have met only 1 non-white homeschool family. It makes me sad that that social group lacks the diversity of the area around us. It makes me even more sad when I realize this is because of economic inequality between races in this area. 

[KungFuPanda]

Okay, thank you Hive, for seeing my question in the spirit it was intended! We love Mexican food, so we should definitely see what they have. Methinks I will not go there for the first time with four small boys, LOL, so that I can actually take some time and enjoy it. I could take one or two of them at a time, and then we'd be able to discuss cultural differences so that I could stay on top of the "that looks weird" questions. (My mom said the same thing: don't expect them to cater to you by speaking English, but otherwise, they'll be perfectly happy to have your business.)

 

Creekland, I haven't seen a ton of racism around here, although I hear it occasionally. I think it's more that there isn't much opportunity for the topic even to come up in a natural sort of way.

You HAVE to go. The savings on spices alone will make the trip worth your while. It helps to think of it as an adventure. Leaving the boys at home will help. Having a recipe or two in mind will give you some focus. We just started drinking hibiscus tea at my house and I'm wondering where it's been all my life. We love it.

 

My local Persian store is awesome. The owner is so energetic that it's contagious. He has a whole wall of different brands of tahini and several choices for fresh feta in his cooler. His chick peas are always fresh because his inventory turns over so quickly.

 

My next food adventure is the taco truck. I've never used it and don't know what they have, but I'm intrigued and imagine it must be delicious or they'd be out of business. I'm willing to look like a dork until I get the hang of it.

[KungFuPanda]

I live in a very diverse area outside of DC and I love, love, love it. I grew up in the deep south, with two highly segregated cultures, so it's been a huge change for me. I am so grateful I get to raise my kids in a diverse area where different ethnicities are the norm. I know this might seem petty to some, but my DS, without prompting, picks out dolls of different skin tones, and draws pictures will all shades of skin on people. Comparing that to my childhood, where we didn't make eye contact with the blacks, and neighborhoods were segregated white vs. black, it seems HUGE. DS gets to go shopping at the Ethiopian market, the Asian market, and the Mexican Market.

 

The one thing I hate about this area is that the homeschool community is virtually all white. It's insane. Our county is only 47% white, but I have met only 1 non-white homeschool family. It makes me sad that that social group lacks the diversity of the area around us. It makes me even more sad when I realize this is because of economic inequality between races in this area.

I think this is starting to change. I think homeschooling is gradually becoming more acceptable in the black community and I'm starting to see more black homeschooling families in my little corner of the inclusive homeschooling world.

[LMD]

We live in a very diverse area, we have a mosque and Hindu temple as well as churches within walking distance. There is a real mix of cultures everywhere you look, you never know who you'll ply with at the park or chat with at the supermarket. Our church is very diverse too and some of my kids' friends are non-white. It's a nice feature of where we live and I'm happy that my kids have spent impressionable years here.

 

However I'd agree that homeschool groups around here are predominantly white. We have a couple of other or mixed race/culture families but not many. I think it is partly cultural views on education effecting that.

[Guest]

Nevermind

[creekland]

Comparing that to my childhood, where we didn't make eye contact with the blacks, and neighborhoods were segregated white vs. black, it seems HUGE.  

 

One huge plus about the area hubby grew up in... When we were there last time F/MIL were disgustingly talking about how "that group" (ok, they used different words that I won't type) has been moving into the neighborhood and it's all going downhill.  They literally point out which houses are the problem as we drive around (FIL does, MIL is too far gone mentally to even remember who lives next door, but she pretends and makes up stories to fit).

 

A short time afterward he saw two young lads walking together (different races) and nodded toward them.  "See what I mean???  The neighborhood isn't the same as what you grew up with!" (talking to hubby of course).  I was in the back with a smile.  In my mind all I could think was, "You're absolutely right FIL!  You're absolutely right. Isn't it great?"

 

Maybe I'm too much of an optimist, but I don't plan on changing.  I prefer to think there's hope with the next generation.

[LMD]

Yep Sadie I agree, I know there are Muslim homeschoolers around here but they tend to keep to themselves (I have tried reaching out before). But even in secular/inclusive groups, it's rare to see a non-white face. I hope we haven't made anyone feel unwelcome.