Need help from those with NPD moms/parents

[Mommy22alyns]

My mom and I stopped communicating about 3 years ago.  I had asked her an innocent question, not much caring whether she would or would not do something, and she exploded on me, dragging up things from years ago that were very trivial and making it sound like I was the worst daughter ever, who had "abandoned" her.  She has not made  one single attempt to contact me or her granddaughters since.

 

Until Thursday.

 

She sent me a message via FB that landed in my "other" folder because I had her blocked.  I was hoping to find out I'd won Grumpy Cat stuff.  She asked if I was interested in reopening communications.

 

My knee jerk reaction is, WHY?  Why now?  You didn't care before, you didn't care for 3 years, what's changed?  She's NPD and I didn't realize how much I had been abused until after we stopped talking.  She did a  LOT of damage to me.  :(  But I'm a Christian, and the commands for forgiveness and honoring my parents come to mind.  I have prayed a lot to forgive her, and I feel like I've made progress, but I don't know if I'm 100% there yet.

 

She probably saw a lot of my FB posts even though I had her blocked, because I was inadvertently posting a ton of things as public.  :(  I could just kick myself so hard for that.  Anyone could see the girls, know their accomplishments, know their progress... both parents made malicious, intentional decisions to toss them aside.  They don't deserve to know the girls, and I practically invited them in. There is a lot of other tangled, sordid family mess going on here too, involving my dad and aunt.  I can't go into details without writing War and Peace again.

 

I'm just... I'm having a very difficult time right now due to a ton of other factors, and I don't know which way to go on any of it.  This on top of everything... I want to just hide under my covers indefinitely.

 

What would you do?

[Caroline]

Ignore the message. Easier said than done, I know.

[Spryte]

Speaking from another version of War and Peace here, I don't know what you *should* do, but I wanted to just say that ... you don't have to do anything today.  Or tomorrow.  Or even next week.  You can take all the time you need to consider and think about the message she sent to you.  Don't feel compelled to respond immediately, or just because it's the holidays.  Take some time to focus on your family, on yourself, and let it simmer in the back of your mind.   :grouphug:

[hornblower]

I would be inclined to reply with a brief note, maybe just saying "let me think about it."

 

& then go through your fb & make everything friends only &/or just deactivate it for a while.

& just put it out your mind for a bit. Maybe write yourself a note that you'll get back to it  Jan 15. ANd then if you start thinking about it before hand, just say NOPE, I'm parking that till Jan 15....

& see how you feel in a few weeks.

[Acorn Island]

Ignore the message. 

 

And I am really sorry that you have to deal with that!   I swear people like that have some kind of radar to know when you are struggling with things -- and that is when they rear their ugly heads.   Don't add to your problems.   I GUARANTEE this person has not changed.

 

Stay strong -- and if you can't do it for yourself, do it for your kids.   

 

[zoobie]

Forgiveness is a totally separate animal from inviting her back into your life. People conflate those all the time, but they are very separate decisions. :grouphug:

 

Boundaries by Townshend is often recommended as a good reading. It has Christian references. Maybe it would help?

[Mommy22alyns]

I would be inclined to reply with a brief note, maybe just saying "let me think about it."

 

& then go through your fb & make everything friends only &/or just deactivate it for a while.

 

& just put it out your mind for a bit. Maybe write yourself a note that you'll get back to it  Jan 15. ANd then if you start thinking about it before hand, just say NOPE, I'm parking that till Jan 15....

 

& see how you feel in a few weeks.

 

I did lock down my FB, but that was just on Friday after some SHTF with other family members and someone unnamed who had basically been searching me out on FB.  I also disguised my FB name, and frankly if I did reopen communication, I would open another FB decoy account and go from there, because I don't want anyone else to spy on me.

[Mommy22alyns]

Forgiveness is a totally separate animal from inviting her back into your life. People conflate those all the time, but they are very separate decisions. :grouphug:

 

Boundaries by Townshend is often recommended as a good reading. It has Christian references. Maybe it would help?

 

 

Thank you.  It looks like my library has it, it's just checked out right now.  I'll keep an eye on it.

[Alicia64]

((((Mommy22)))) I have two parents who are NPD. Not trying to one-up you, just saying.

 

From a Christian point of view I believe that evil has entered these people. The experts talk about how NPD happens but nobody yet is really sure. The best thought these days is that the poor environment they're raised in intersects w/ something they're born with that's then triggered into NPD.

 

Whatever.

 

The experts agree that these people don't change, don't grow, that they don't go to therapy but send others to therapy.

 

I'm no-contact w/ my parents too. I often think that if I end up in a room w/ them again, I've taken a wrong turn somewhere. Staying no-contact is the only way for any hope for sanity.

 

I think that evil has entered their system is as good an answer as any at this point.

 

My warmest hugs to you -- NPD parents are not normal and only cause pain in their wake. I'm so sorry.

 

Alley

[Jean in Newcastle]

From a Christian perspective:

 

forgiveness is an internal thing of not continuing to blame them.  

 

honoring them can be as simple as not dishing out the crap they've dished out to you.

 

I don't think that either of them mean that you can't have boundaries.  

 

 

[Carol in Cal.]

I would wait until after New Year's and then decide.  And put it out of my head in the meantime.

[Dory]

I haven't read all the other responses but I want to tuck in, from my own experiences, that forgiveness doesn't mean you have to allow others to continue hurting your or trampling you. Really that isn't loving anyway because it is enabling unhealthy behaviour. The healthiest, most loving thing you can do is set firm boundaries that keep you and your family emotionally safe.

 

Showing others love sometimes means saying that their behaviour is not healthy and that you can't support it. You can forgive them for past wrong and still set that boundary, same as you can set a boundary with your child and still love your child. There are lots of things you don't let your kids do to you because it isn't healthy or right.

 

:grouphug: Family stuff sucks and is never easy to think through. I cut off contact with my family a few years back and then slowly allowed them back in with some pretty strict boundaries. I'm thinking I've let it wander too far again. I just had a conversation where I was informed that I owe her whatever she wants because she raised me and that good kids who honor their parents would give her whatever she wants. I will probably back off and let her have her own little temper tantrum away from me and when she cools down and acts sweet again we'll try visiting again. *sigh*

 

Good luck. Try not to let it spoil your holidays.

[G5052]

Really, it's up to you.  Mine asked to reconnect multiple times without ever apologizing, and frankly it never went well. Each time I went "no contact" it was for at least six months. I always set boundaries. When those boundaries were broken, I shut it down again.

.  

My last conversation was when we were "out," and I had been told that she was about to be institutionalized (she had violent dementia by then).  Frankly I have no regrets about that one.  She had forgotten most of the last 20 years of her life and it was like talking to a child.  Not a bad conversation.  A few days later she beat up a worker and did several thousand dollars of damage to her apartment in the process of being moved. Then she pretty much lost it mentally, and she died a year later.  At least I had one positive memory.  No regrets that I broke "no contact."

 

I agree with putting it off though.  Give yourself a happy holiday without the pressure, then decide.

[ScoutTN]

((hugs))

[Mommy22alyns]

Really, it's up to you.  Mine asked to reconnect multiple times without ever apologizing, and frankly it never went well.  I agreed each time but set boundaries.  When those boundaries were broken, I shut it down again.  I guess I always hoped that things would change, but they never did.

 

I agree with putting it off though.  Give yourself a happy holiday without the pressure, then decided.

 

 

That's it, and I didn't think of it until DH mentioned it too.  She had not a word of apology to issue, just a request.

[Renthead Mommy]

If it is in your 'other' folder, you can wait six months of you like.  When you  decide to answer her just say "sorry it took so long getting back, it was in my other folder and did not notice it at first'.  

[G5052]

That's it, and I didn't think of it until DH mentioned it too.  She had not a word of apology to issue, just a request.

 

Mine never, ever apologized.  The attempts to reconnect always came around the holidays and birthdays too.  It was like she felt guilty, but didn't want to admit anything.

 

Twice she had friends contact me to attempt the reconnection.  One of them got an earful from me, and went back and told Mom that she couldn't track me down after all.

[GinaPagnato]

That's it, and I didn't think of it until DH mentioned it too.  She had not a word of apology to issue, just a request.

 

She won't apologize, of course. 

 

You already know that, right? If you think back you'll realize that she never has and never will *own* what she's done. It's out of character for NPD, and the only reason we even think in terms of apologies is because we AREN'T NPD, and normal, healthy people DO apologize when they've grievously harmed others.

 

I TOTALLY agree with a pp who said to take all the time you need to respond. Do NOT feel compelled to issue a response immediately. This was always the hardest thing for me---feeling like when initiation was made toward me, I *had* to respond right away.

 

As for the Biblical mandate to forgive, I'm totally there. But remember, that sometimes the greatest act of love we can commit is refusing to put ourselves in a situation where a very sick, twisted person can repeatedly sin against us.

 

:grouphug:  You have my complete empathy and best wishes for achieving and mainatining healthy boundaries (which sometimes means NO interaction, even when the other party initiates).

 

[KungFuPanda]

Protect your kids. Ignore the message. Reconnect when your kids are grown if you feel compelled to endure abuse, but don't bring that baggage into your children's lives. It can't benefit them.

[GinaPagnato]

Really, it's up to you.  Mine asked to reconnect multiple times without ever apologizing, and frankly it never went well. Each time I went "no contact" it was for at least six months. I always set boundaries. When those boundaries were broken, I shut it down again.

.  

My last conversation was when we were "out," and I had been told that she was about to be institutionalized (she had violent dementia by then).  Frankly I have no regrets about that one.  She had forgotten most of the last 20 years of her life and it was like talking to a child.  Not a bad conversation.  A few days later she beat up a worker and did several thousand dollars of damage to her apartment in the process of being moved. Then she pretty much lost it mentally, and she died a year later.  At least I had one positive memory.  No regrets that I broke "no contact."

 

I agree with putting it off though.  Give yourself a happy holiday without the pressure, then decide.

 

Rough stuff...

[OnTheBrink]

 

 

As for the Biblical mandate to forgive, I'm totally there. But remember, that sometimes the greatest act of love we can commit is refusing to put ourselves in a situation where a very sick, twisted person can repeatedly sin against us.

 

 

 

This. There are times when the most honoring thing you can do is to not give her repeated chances to sin. Don't respond. At all. She's playing an NPD game and any response you give is engaging in her game, regardless of what your response is. So, don't respond. 

[gardenmom5]

first - :grouphug:

second- step back and breathe

 

third - contact doesn't have to mean unlimited/uncontrolled and everything goes back to the way it was.  I'm sure you've heard of the boundaries book.  if you haven't read it- do so.  (okay, I haven't, but my understanding is it is from a Christian perspective.)  the point is - you control the relationship.  it's okay to say no, it's okay to say "I will not tolerate that".

 

contact can range from (zero or) Christmas card exchanges once a year - to dropping in with no warning  everyday, and no taboo subjects.  doesn't even mean your kids have to have contact with her.  the point is, as the aggrieved party (with vulnerable children), to put things in your control.  that's why the book - it will help you recognize what is appropriate for your situation.

 

does she acknowledge any of her missteps of being inappropriate? (yes, I know I'm understating.  my grandmother was NPD - so no way would I recommend subjecting children to one's npd mother just to say you're a good person.)

one thing to remember - God does not command us to subject ourselves to our enemies! (don't remember the exact scripture - but I was reading the scriptures while pondering upon the subject of my relationship with her.  the scripture stating the above leaped off the page at me.) someone who psychologically abuses us - is our enemy.  (and he sure as heck doesn't command we subject our children to these people! we need to protect our children.)

 

we can honor our parents without having them in our home. e.g.  making sure they aren't homeless and starving doesn't mean living with us and eating our food.  I finally got down to one 15 minute phone call to my grandmother, once a week.  if she was appropriate - we talked for 15 minutes.  if she wasn't - I said goodbye, and hung up.  some phone calls weren't even 5 minutes.  and this was *late in her life*.  if I'd started younger, I'm sure things would have been more extreme. 

 

she's been dead for more than twenty- years.  I've made a lot of progress on forgiveness (she did a lot of damage. I feel sorry for how miserable and pathetic a person she was without animus more often than not.) - but I started working on it at least ten years before that.  however, I also believe it wasn't all bad.  I learned the nature of evil - and why it is so destructive. (and one of her favorite tools was religion as her weapon of choice.)

[gardenmom5]

 

 

As for the Biblical mandate to forgive, I'm totally there. But remember, that sometimes the greatest act of love we can commit is refusing to put ourselves in a situation where a very sick, twisted person can repeatedly sin against us.

 

 

 

this.  and not allowing them to damage our children as they damaged us!

[gardenmom5]

 I just had a conversation where I was informed that I owe her whatever she wants because she raised me and that good kids who honor their parents would give her whatever she wants.

 

the appropriate response to that is :lol:  :smilielol5: :rofl:  and a suggestion she should go into stand-up comedy.

 

[Tammyla]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: I hope you find your way and have peace in your decision.  

 

You can love, and forgive someone without giving them your power.  (Sounds goofy, but you don't have to step out into the line of fire to honor a parent.)   I second the BOUNDARIES by Cloud & Townsend.  

[Mommy22alyns]

Someone said she shouldn't have been able to message me if I had her blocked.  She made a new FB account.  I'm just ill.

[fairfarmhand]

as a Christian, forgiving your parents and honoring them does not equate with "Invite them into your life so they can mistreat you."

 

Honoring them may just be "Wow! That Mommy22alyns is a wonderful mom in spite of the terrible example she had."

[LMD]

*hugs*

 

I second just not responding. Engaging shows she still has emotional control over you.

 

My mum chooses the most emotionally charged times to try and slip back into our lives. The closest I got to an apology was 'are you ready to call a truce?' 😖

I totally get the sick feeling, I'm a wreck for days after she's made contact.

[jrn]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[myfunnybunch]

Nothing wrong with hiding under the covers, at least figuratively.

 

Delete it, ignore it, wait for a while....whatever you decide, you do not have to deal with her and her request for contact until or unless you feel like it. Period. Stay under those blankets as long as you need.

 

:grouphug:

 

Cat

[Katy]

Have you read the books Boundaries and Stop Walking on Eggshells ?  If so, I'd read them before deciding.

[Rosie_0801]

It's not a *parent* I have to deal with, but...

 

I would ignore the message and not feel any guilt at all. People like this don't even have to try to hurt you, they do it without effort. You don't want to be around if they decide they *are* going to try.

[Mommy22alyns]

Apparently she blocked me after sending the message, but before I saw it.  FB said, "You may not reply to this message."  So now I think I know who was keeping tabs on my FB.   :glare:  I left one post public calling the spy out.  That's okay, I blocked the new name  too.

[Mommy22alyns]

DP, sorry.

[gardenmom5]

Apparently she blocked me after sending the message, but before I saw it.  FB said, "You may not reply to this message."  So now I think I know who was keeping tabs on my FB.   :glare:  I left one post public calling the spy out.  That's okay, I blocked the new name  too.

 

well - I guess you know just how much sincere she was in wanting to reinitiate communication.

 

I'm sorry.

[G5052]

Apparently she blocked me after sending the message, but before I saw it.  FB said, "You may not reply to this message."  So now I think I know who was keeping tabs on my FB.   :glare:  I left one post public calling the spy out.  That's okay, I blocked the new name  too.

 

Under those circumstances, I'd move on.  She's playing with you.

[jrn]

I agree, she is just playing with you.

 

Ignore and move on. After awhile it becomes easier to roll your eyes about the attempts of pseudo concern and just delete them.

 

Again (((hugs)))

[Mommy22alyns]

Another person on a different board I visit ended up with NPD mom problems for the holidays too.  I thought about my situation - what  would I tell someone in my situation?  I told her to keep her distance and protect her kids.  So thank you ladies - you are right.  She will never apologize, she will never  change.  NPD pretty much never rehabs.

[G5052]

She will never apologize, she will never  change.  NPD pretty much never rehabs.

 

Yes, hold your ground. 

 

She just proved that she wants contact only on her terms, which would be a no-go in my book.

 

There may be contact at some point, but keep the boundaries up and approach with caution ALWAYS.

[Artichoke]

too personal. 

 

Edited June 13, 2017 by Artichoke

[Ravin]

Apparently she blocked me after sending the message, but before I saw it. FB said, "You may not reply to this message." So now I think I know who was keeping tabs on my FB. :glare: I left one post public calling the spy out. That's okay, I blocked the new name too.

You can also report her for having multiple FB accounts for the purpose of harassing you. Probably best just to clean up/secure your account and not engage, though.

[FaithManor]

Gently speaking, honoring your mother can also mean doing her the service of not willingly offering up victims again. You can forgive her, but you can't make her change, nor should you put innocents like your children in her path again. Forgiveness can very genuinely come from you, but like all things, there is cause and effect, and one of the effects for her is that she will not be provided with your family to victimize.

 

Protect your family. You can forgive her without placing your family in the way.

[QuirkyKapers]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  I think you have your answer about contact.  Her true colors were revealed again with making a different FB account. 

[Love]

.  

 

 

Edited November 19, 2015 by Love

[gardenmom5]

I don't have no idea how Facebook works- but do you think she blocked you because you didn't immediately ask, "How high?" fast enough, when she wanted you to jump at her wonderful offer?  As in, when she sensed you were hesitating, and she realized she wasn't 110% in control, so took the offer back to keep the upper hand...?

 

Maybe I'm wrong in your situation, just tossing it out there.  

 

 

 

my grandmother was bpd/NPD.  so - maybe and maybe not reacting to not jumping fast enough.  ultimately - it's irrelevant.  even if OP had responded immediately - her mother doesn't really want a real relationship.   relationships are two-way, and NPD people are *incapable* of engaging in that kind of relationship. 

 

 

 

 

[momacacia]

I am a Christian with no-contact with a NPD father. It's perfectly okay to let it go. In my situation, he needs to make restitution before the relationship can be properly (and Biblically, imo) restored. Restoration requires more than just "hey forgive me" and "Oh, okay." We should not hold anger and bitterness in our hearts, but does God forgive someone until they ask for forgiveness? Food for thought. There should be real repentance, a real change in order for the relationship to be restored.

 

If you think that your mom has something wonderful to offer your children, and you can establish a relationship with healthy boundaries with her/them, then fine (start things up after Christmas ;)). But, if as in my case, your NPD person still lives in a state of not having healthy relationships with anyone in their life, then you can rest assured that that individual's relationship with your children won't be healthy either. Life is short. Move on.

 

Have a peaceful Christmas. :)

[Love]

 .

Edited November 19, 2015 by Love

[gardenmom5]

Just responding to gardenmom5- 

 

I definitely wasn't saying she should have responded.  I just was in the same situation once, minus Facebook.

 

I didn't mean the offer was 'wonderful' either, except from the viewpoint of the NPD person.  

 

It might be irrelevant, but for me, it helped me to read up on NPD, and of understand some 'whys' and their thought processes.  It just made things more clear, and helped me to heal and to lower expectations, etc.

 

I didn't take it to mean you thought she should have.

 

the last pieces finally fell into place for me when I was reading up on NPD.  vindication too - that I wasn't crazy, and things really were what I was perceving them as.  I do think understanding where they're coming from is very helpful (e.g. that they are incapable of normal relationships, and have messed up perceptions, manipulation, everything revolves around them) - in a very detached clinical sort of way.   I was able to feel sorry for my grandmother when I was able to understand she didn't know what real love was - and if it was offered to her, she would be *unable* to even recognize it.  let alone accept it.  so, there was no way she'd ever have the capacity to extend something of which she was incapable to someone else.  

 

but the reason for what sets them off on any given snit is also ultimately, irrelevant.  if it's not one thing, it "will be" another.  they don't *need* a reason to be set off - they just set off because "that's what they do".  they might tell you they're angry about something. but. it's. just. an. excuse. everything is about them being in control.  anger is about control - if they're angry - they see whomever they're angry at as in their debt.  it's just an excuse and manipulative ploy.  so, the why doesn't really matter.

[Love]

.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Love

[jelbe5]

... both parents made malicious, intentional decisions to toss them aside. They don't deserve to know the girls. . .

Dear Friend,

 

I think you have already answered your question in this statement. Your daughters and your family don't need these toxic people in your life.

 

You may still honor your parents by continuing to work on forgiveness and praying for them if you feel led to do so. You don't have to engage with them to honor them. Continuing the cycle of the unhealthy relationship will not be honoring to her since it feeds her disorder and, most importantly, it does not honor YOU or your family to be in turmoil. You have surmised that nothing has changed and you are probably correct.

 

I am sorry for the pain you endured growing up. You have a chance to create a healthy, loving family without drama. Move forward and don't look back.