Feeling like a hostage to my DS's emotions

[DesertBlossom]

I'm so discouraged. DS8 has always been highly emotional and in the last little while I've felt like a hostage to his emotions.   Like I have to give into his demands or alter my behavior in order to not become a victim to his epic tantrums.  And while I had been hoping he would outgrow this behavior, I've come to the startling and discouraging realization that it's only getting worse.  I know that when I lose my cool, things deteriorate even further, and I'm working on that.  But even when I feel like I handle his outbursts well, I still feel a little bit run over.

 

He's always been incredibly obsessed with fairness. Things have to be exactly the same. (yes, we talk about how fair is not the same as being equal) He's in 3rd grade doing mostly 5th grade work. If his work takes any long than his K or 2nd grade siblings he melts down into a tantrum that could put my 18 month old to shame. I find myself negotiating his work in order to avoid meltdowns. If he does the work poorly (and I mean deliberately bad) he melts down if I dare suggest he re do it.  (FTR, his independent work takes 60-90 minutes max.)   And unfortunately these tantrums tend to escalate into slamming doors, shoving furniture, hitting siblings as they walk by, etc.  If I tell him to go to his room to calm down, I practically have to physically force him there. Sometimes he'll just keep opening his bedroom door to scream at me, just to slam it when I walk towards him again.

 

By the end of the day I am completely wiped out emotionally. I would put him back in PS if he wouldn't be so bored academically. I honestly feel stuck homeschooling him. 

 

When he's good, he's a great kid. When he's bad.... the whole house feels it. I'm tired of it. I'm frustrated. I'm seriously considering putting him on a plane to his grandparents' house for a week.

[Tsuga]

We struggle with this too. I can't say my daughter's behavior is getting worse but it's not getting better like everyone promised. She knows right from wrong but sometimes just makes bad choices. She's not about fairness--she's actually less reasonable than that in a way. She cares much more about just plain getting her way! She will repeat the same request or demand hundreds of times even when I am clear and there are clear consequences for badgering. "No. We are not having dessert. Continuing to ask is rude because it wastes my time and patience and does not respect what I already said."

 

"But can we?"

 

It is hard to have a relationship with people who will not compromise or who throw tantrums, because you have to be on your guard so as not to send the kid the wrong message. That is the worst part, in my opinion.

 

I've tried every parenting method in the books. 1-2-3 Magic, How to Talk, Gentle Discipline, pretty much everything. Nothing has any effect except removing her from the situation, but as she gets older that's harder and harder to do.

 

My family is going to an art family counselor tonight. I'll let you know how it goes. :) I totally feel your pain.

[Sdel]

Are you sure he isn't overwhelmed with the amount of independent work or level of output? Is he doing it all in one sitting or does he have breaks?

 

Stefanie

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

You might consider getting an assessment to see if there is more going on than is readily apparent.  If you can find the underlying issues and get professional help to target whatever those issues are, you might be able to help your child to gain some more productive coping mechanisms.  Perhaps through a neuropsychologist...

[DesertBlossom]

I feel I should also add that I'm not the type to get run over. In fact, I think I tend towards being too demanding and strict and I've learned that I really have to give my children (ESPECIALLY the 8yo) more choices and freedom and responsibility.  A lot of my frustration is because I know I should be able to give my child reasonable requirements without it turning into a battle of wills EVERY SINGLE TIME.

 

[DesertBlossom]

Are you sure he isn't overwhelmed with the amount of independent work or level of output? Is he doing it all in one sitting or does he have breaks?

 

Stefanie

I really don't think that's it. Sometimes the 7 and 8 year old get up and get started on their work and have it done by 9am and then I feel like a slacker. I have no problem crossing out as many as half of his math problems if I know he doesn't need that much practice and if the lesson is an overwhelming 5 pages long.  The 7yo is less distracted and works faster so she's often done before the 8yo. I don't think it's the amount of the work or the level of difficulty.

 

I have never been in your situation. But if I were I would put a stop to all school to work on behaviour. I'm not sure what that would look like. But school would definitionly be put on hold.

I use school as an example, but this happens across the board. He's just as likely to have a tantrum over the 6 year old "only" having to feed the dog while he has to tidy the bathroom. 

 

A couple of weeks I threatened to send him back to public school. I have never done that before but I was so over the fighting with him. He immediately broke down crying and saying he didn't want to go, but I told him if he didn't change his attitude he'd be back at the neighborhood school the next Monday (and bored out of his mind).  We had a couple of great weeks but it's just gotten worse since then.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I second the recommendation for a professional evaluation.  It sounds a lot more than immature 8yo behavior.  In fact, it sounds a lot like my child who had sensory processing and auditory processing issues. A diagnosis and tools went a long way toward helping improving our lives at home and my relationship with my kids. 

[Sdel]

Well, for what it is worth....my 7 year old is the same only she has no one else to compare too. Less is more with her and so is strict time management. I think I would stop independent work for a while if he is also distractable.

[Twolittleboys]

One of my kids was similar (and still is to a lesser degree). In my experience the only thing that helps is to remain calm and increase positive interaction. This doesn't necessarily mean giving in to demands etc. but if my son gets the impression that he is not appreciated/liked things deteriorate. I can pretty much count on it that if I have a bad day, am impatient (or even unfair), rushed, stressed etc. his behaviour will deteriorate quickly. As long as I keep everything harmonious things run much more smoothly. Once the tantrum starts no punishment/consequence will stop it (there are of course still consequences but they do not stop the tantrum itself).

[LibraryLover]

8 year olds need to move move move.  Is he getting enough of that?  Can you join a Y and go swimming or take a tumbling class?  Nothing hardcore, just get him moving. Bike to the library a few times a week?

[Tsuga]

LibraryLover, your advice was to the OP, I will just say from my side, my girl child gets about 2 hours of outdoor play time per day, PLUS a sport three times per week.

 

That does not stop, reduce, or in any way affect her behavior for better or for worse. We've had down-time but it doesn't change anything.

[LLMom]

Yes, have him evaluated.  I waited til age 10 with my son.  He was diagnosed bipolar.  He was having "tantrums" well past the age that is normal.  Hopefully it is nothing.  

[DesertBlossom]

I second the recommendation for a professional evaluation.  It sounds a lot more than immature 8yo behavior.  In fact, it sounds a lot like my child who had sensory processing and auditory processing issues. A diagnosis and tools went a long way toward helping improving our lives at home and my relationship with my kids. 

 

I will be completely honest and admit that taking him in for a professional evaluation is going to make me feel like a failure and that's probably because I feel like this is something I should be able to work through with him. (I realize that's not a fair expectation for myself)  Just to help me out, what kind of "tools" do you mean?  I have no experience taking any of my children to any sort of "professional" so I have no idea what kind of "help" they provide so I don't know how it will help me.

 

One of my kids was similar (and still is to a lesser degree). In my experience the only thing that helps is to remain calm and increase positive interaction. This doesn't necessarily mean giving in to demands etc. but if my son gets the impression that he is not appreciated/liked things deteriorate. I can pretty much count on it that if I have a bad day, am impatient (or even unfair), rushed, stressed etc. his behaviour will deteriorate quickly. As long as I keep everything harmonious things run much more smoothly. Once the tantrum starts no punishment/consequence will stop it (there are of course still consequences but they do not stop the tantrum itself).

This sounds exactly like DS.  And my reaction is definitely part of the problem.  It doesn't matter if he's screaming and yelling, if I so much as raise my voice even once (and sometimes its worse) than in his mind all his behavior is because I yelled at him, regardless of the actual order of events. It's frustrating to have him call me out like that. "Why can parents yell but kids can't?" This morning's tantrum began because DD was done with her work and already outside playing. So after wailing "I HATE WHEN I AM THE ONLY ONE STILL DOING WORK!" he rushed through his last assignment. It was terribly done, so I erased it and asked him to do it again. I was so proud of my calm and patient and demeanor I bought myself a giant diet coke. :)  But he still was throwing pencils (and then screaming at me about hiding his pencil when he couldn't find it) and slamming doors and demanding that I assign less work.  I wouldn't give in, but was calm about it.  He eventually did it... it wasn't his best work. Barely tolerable, in fact. But then he went outside where he was pushing and shoving, so he got sent back inside. He finally snapped out of it, thankfully. But I still feel totally drained and on the verge of tears.

 

8 years olds need to move move move.  Is he getting enough of that?  Can you join a Y and go swimming or take a tumbling class?  Nothing hardcore, just get him moving. Bike to the library a few times a week?

We finally have spectacular weather and the kids are riding bikes or roller blades outside for hours every day.

 

Apparently, I can't undo that last quote, but the question is the same, about how specifically a professional can help.  I've just always looked at this as something I needed to figure out and solve and shifting that way of thinking is going to require some more information.

[lewelma]

Read the book The Explosive Child: a new approach to parenting easily frustrated, chronically inflexible children.  It was written by a psychologist who works with kids like yours.  It is a very clear cut, step by step manual for how to *teach* your kids to overcome these difficulties.  He is less concerned with the causes of the behaviour, and rather focuses on the solutions.  And his solutions work regardless of the causes.

 

I've used it's techniques with my older with great results.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Lecka]

I think it sounds like he needs an eval, too, that he could have more going on than just "the usual."  You can talk to your pediatrician, tell him you have concerns, ask if your pediatrician can suggest a referral.  Or one of the other suggestions -- it may depend on your pediatrician how far that gets you. 

 

As far as you feeling like a failure, that is not individual to you. At some point your need to find out what is going on becomes greater than your need to be able to handle it on your own.  Or, conversely, you never get to that point. 

 

But don't think that people are eager to explore these things, of course it takes a lot of bravery, of course there are people who feel like failures for not being able to do it on their own. 

 

Just in case you thought it was different for other people, you are not alone. 

 

I wish you the best, I hope you can figure it out and find some ways to move forward with your son :)  With help or on your own, either way is good. 

 

[MrsH]

This is so hard. So hard. I could basically have written your posts about my son, and it's easily the hardest thing I've ever experienced.

 

I live the book rec above, and DS does respond to it. It's not fast, but absolutely worthwhile.

 

If there's any sensory stuff going on, take a look at The Out of Sync Child. It's given us very practical suggestions on how to help DS regulate himself by providing a rich sensory "diet." The book was invaluable, but we are in the process of getting an OT evaluation, to help us get help that's more tailored to his needs. Some techniques in that book though have helped in reducing the length/severity of meltdowns.

 

As we muddle through each day, while very slowly getting more information, I try to catch little fun moments with him and the others when I can. I try to remind myself that this will improve, sometime, as we learn more. I pray a lot. And make sure to get my exercise and breaks from him on a regular basis. It's still so hard. Some days feel manageable, others don't. Occasionally we get a beautiful moment, and I feel hopeful again.

[LibraryLover]

Oh, I get it. I just wanted to throw it out there, since winter is coming. :)

 

LibraryLover, your advice was to the OP, I will just say from my side, my girl child gets about 2 hours of outdoor play time per day, PLUS a sport three times per week.

 

That does not stop, reduce, or in any way affect her behavior for better or for worse. We've had down-time but it doesn't change anything.

 

[8filltheheart]

I 3rd or 4th the suggestion for getting an evaluation done. It is not a failure to seek professional help. That is a sign of parental wisdom. You recognize that the behaviors are outside of normal and that the status quo is not improving the situation.

[Soror]

I would concur with the advice to seek an evaluation. What you are describing is not what I'd describe as normal and if you are wiped out so are the siblings (and him). It is no different than taking our kids to the medical doctor, we can take care of basic medical needs but sometimes we need help. Some kids are just wired differently and parents will have to learn new skills to help them cope and sometimes need to find some experts to help as well. 

 

[8filltheheart]

Soror's post made me want to add another point. As the parent of a highly emotional adult, his siblings have suffered severe stress from his behaviors. We had to remove our ds from our home at one point when he was 16 b/c one of his younger sisters started to display symptoms of severe stress. She would run and hide at loud sounds and would be shaking and crying. You cannot dismiss how his behaviors are impacting his siblings in addition to how they make you feel.

 

My 16 yr old dd, not the dd referred to above, now shares just how traumatized she was by ds's behaviors. (And she is 4 yrs older than the dd who exhibited severe stress.).

[Twolittleboys]

I do agree that an evaluation can't hurt but actually what you wrote doesn't seem that out of the ordinary to me. I know several kids (including my own) that are kind of similar. We went through a really rough patch in second grade and I did get an evaluation (so I am definitely not advising against it). I didn't feel the evaluation was very helpful in our case (the doctor was not a good match for our family) but the positive aspect was that according to the psychiatrist there was nothing wrong with my son. Things are definitely so much better for us (at least for the most part).

 

Some things that helped for us:

- I cut down on stress as much as possible: I was working a lot of hours at the time so my patience wasn't great. I stopped that job and also extracurricular activities that caused additional pressure/stress.

- My son does much better when he has had enough sleep. A lack of sleep will almost always lead to a melt-down.

- Eating every couple of hours. For a while we had a meltdown at 4 pm every day. Finally I figured out that this could often be avoided by a snack. Even now when ds acts really bad I will often not engage but instead get him to eat something. Generally, the bad behaviour will stop before it really escalated.

 

My ds is really sensitive. Aside from the fact that it is no fun to stay inside while others play he probably would have felt that he was slower than his siblings or less loved/being punished or whatever. My son will also at times blame me for something he did (even though it is quite apparent what happened). I think this is mainly because he feels bad about his actions and by denying them tries to ignore that it happened. I will often just ignore this - we both know what happened and once things have calmed down he will apologize (or at that point there might be consequences if something got broken etc.)

 

Anyway, do get an evaluation if you think there might be more going on but in the meantime I would try to work on a positive interaction, lots of time spend together doing fun stuff, physical touch etc.

 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

I disagree. Throwing and shoving things, screaming, hitting siblings, and slamming doors is not normal childhood behavior.

[In2why]

I echo the advice to get a professional involved. Without some help it will only get worse and the longer his behavior continues the harder it will be to change. It is hard to admit to needing help but imagine his behavior at 16 when he is much larger and possibly dangerous to others. Waiting does him and your family a disservice. I am not.judging you at all. We needed help with our oldest son, got it, and after a tough couple of years things got back on track. Now he is a wonderful successful adult, happy in both his professional life and his relationships.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I will be completely honest and admit that taking him in for a professional evaluation is going to make me feel like a failure and that's probably because I feel like this is something I should be able to work through with him. (I realize that's not a fair expectation for myself)  Just to help me out, what kind of "tools" do you mean?  I have no experience taking any of my children to any sort of "professional" so I have no idea what kind of "help" they provide so I don't know how it will help me.

 

Would you feel like a failure if you got help for a child with anemia?  Diabetes?  This is not something you caused.  You need to strike that from your head because it will only get in the way of making things better.  You can ask your pediatrician for advice and a referral for an evaluation.

 

I went through a neurodevelopmentalist.  I know that some people find that controversial, but it made a huge difference in our lives.  I still have PTSD from how difficult my now 18yods was as a younger child.  We did a program of therapies designed to retrain the brain on how it processes sensory input. He was a sensory avoider and would melt down after being in highly stimulating environments.  He got to the point where he could hold it together while we were at the activity, but would fall apart as soon as it was "safe."  He also had a very low frustration threshhold at home.  Perfectionism.  Highly sensitive to unfairness.  I am not saying your child has sensory issues ... there can be many neurological differences that can have similar symptoms. 

 

One of the biggest helps for me was to get myself out of a punitive mindset ("You misbehaved and now you must atone for it through punishment or "consequences.")  I had to look at the meltdowns as a symptom of the disorder, not as willful disobedience.  Just like I wouldn't punish a child who was sluggish and pokey if they had anemia.  When I stopped thinking of it as "misbehavior" and a symptom of the disorder, I was able to temper my reaction.  This does not mean I allowed my child to be a terror to the family, but it helped me remain calm and deal with things.  It may have been a "time out" - not punitive, but an opportunity to cool off and get back into control.  I put myself in "time out" when I was losing it - modeling for him how to calm myself down.  Yes, I actually announced that I needed a time out.  You could use a different term if time out has a punitive connotation.  You could also work on time in when you see him struggling with frustration but before he gets out of control.  We actually practiced breathing techniques to call on when he started to enter the "red fog."  I found that the more positive attention I paid to this kid while working to control his environment at home, the better his behavior was.  We worked on a healthy lifestyle of proper diet (minimal additives, whole foods), exercise and good sleep habits. 

[fairfarmhand]

Lots of good suggestions.

 

your thoughts about how you feel a failure led me to post this link to my blog.

 

http://hotmesshomeschooling.wordpress.com/2014/10/20/parenting-your-challenging-child-rejecting-formulaic-responses/

 

You really need to read this. It's not you.

 

Some kids are just hard hard hard.

[myfunnybunch]

Would you feel like a failure if you got help for a child with anemia?  Diabetes?  This is not something you caused.  You need to strike that from your head because it will only get in the way of making things better.  You can ask your pediatrician for advice and a referral for an evaluation.

 

I wish I could like this 100 times.

 

OP, many :grouphug:. Your desire to help your son and your love for him come through so clearly. You're a good momma.

 

Cat

 

[Reefgazer]

I imagine that tip-toeing around him and giving in to his tantrums is probably making things worse.  From his POV, the tantrums work so that he gets his way.  Don't make him do the work if he's going to throw a tantrum, but make it clear in advance that his privileges will be pulled until the work is done.

[MotherGoose]

 You must intervene now.  If this behavior continues, imagine the power he could have over his family or wife one day if they feel they have to tiptoe around his rages.  Is there someone in the family that models rage?  (Don't have to answer, just a question).  It's a dynamic in many families, where the whole family revolves around not "upsetting" another family member by normal everyday things.  Consider reading the book "Boundaries" by Henry Cloud--it's in relation to adult behavior more.  I 45th the need for an evaluation, and hugs to you.

[Tsuga]

"I imagine that tip-toeing around him and giving in to his tantrums is probably making things worse."

 

You know, you'd think that. You'd think that not tip-toeing around things would somehow at least make things better, right? Like facing it outright and not being afraid of a tantrum would make the child think, "Oh gosh, this is going badly. Maybe I'll stop the behavior that is causing bad things to happen. This is not working so I will stop."

 

And I could see how you might think that, because that was what I used to think.

 

 

 

 

Maybe they do think that. But for whatever reason, the behavior doesn't stop--even when the child can clearly articulate the fact that they realize they will get nowhere, and on the contrary, that it is against their interests to have a tantrum.

 

I have spent the better part of eight years thinking, "If I just never give in, never, ever, ever, and if I always take the bull by the horns, eventually she will learn that this is not working to control me and she will stop."

 

But she doesn't. Eight years, approximately 1,253,482 repetitions of, "Don't start this or then you won't get anything," and she still starts.

 

However, rest assured, that there is no possible way that tiptoeing around tantrums could make it worse for some kids. How could it possibly be worse? My child has gone to school in bare feet; gone to bed without dinner more times than I can count; has been grounded / in time-out for more than two days in a row because she just couldn't bring herself to give in.

 

"Don't make him do the work if he's going to throw a tantrum, but make it clear in advance that his privileges will be pulled until the work is done."

 

I'd bet my bottom dollar that it is the making clear in advance triggers a tantrum. It sure does in our case.

 

This type of child does not respond to consequences. It's almost like they are color blind and no matter how much you beat them over the head (figuratively) they will NEVER see orange. They just can't see it. My daughter  knows theoretically that she will never, ever get what she wants from me by whining or tantruming. At least, she never has. She knows like she knows that orange is made of red and yellow. But when faced with a choice of "How should I respond to not getting my way?" she just does not apply that theoretical knowledge. Her brain goes, "A good idea right now would be to make everyone else miserable."

 

Now, any normal child would, of course, think, after 567,891 times of this happening, "You know what? If I whine, I won't get what I want. How can I get what I want? I'll do that."

 

It's pretty simple, actually, and I know I'm not crazy for thinking that could work, that because I have one child who is very well-behaved and actually gets commended for being able to follow instructions. I have been told by total strangers that I am a very consistent parent. So I know what you are saying.

 

But as for tiptoeing around a tantrum making it worse... I don't know about that. Some kids don't think in terms of actions-consequences, even with the most diligent parents.

[kbutton]

I still have PTSD from how difficult my now 18yods was as a younger child.  

 

He got to the point where he could hold it together while we were at the activity, but would fall apart as soon as it was "safe."  

 

One of the biggest helps for me was to get myself out of a punitive mindset ("You misbehaved and now you must atone for it through punishment or "consequences.")  I had to look at the meltdowns as a symptom of the disorder, not as willful disobedience.  Just like I wouldn't punish a child who was sluggish and pokey if they had anemia.  When I stopped thinking of it as "misbehavior" and a symptom of the disorder, I was able to temper my reaction.  This does not mean I allowed my child to be a terror to the family, but it helped me remain calm and deal with things.  It may have been a "time out" - not punitive, but an opportunity to cool off and get back into control.  I put myself in "time out" when I was losing it - modeling for him how to calm myself down.  Yes, I actually announced that I needed a time out.  You could use a different term if time out has a punitive connotation.  

 

Edited to include the parts that sound just like our house...and years later, we had a diagnosis. It's so much better knowing what is going on (in our case several things together). I felt (and still sometimes feel) like a failure for needing help, until I read about what particular diagnoses do to family life, parental sanity, etc. In the case of our son's diagnosis, there are studies showing that moms of kids with this diagnosis have symptoms consistent with PTSD. 

 

Any time a parent says that they have tiptoe around a kid or that their child's behavior controls the whole family, that is a red flag. It took us two psychologists to find the right one.  :grouphug:

[In2why]

An 8 year old melting down to the extent he is slamming doors, screaming at his mother, throwing stuff, shoving furniture and hitting people is not typical behavior. I am sorry but it just isn't. The entire family is being hurt by the actions of this child and they all need help. We aren't able to diagnose or guess if the child has an actual issue or if the family dynamics are off track and dysfunctional behavior has become the norm, but either way professional help is warranted.

[In2why]

Sorry double post

[DesertBlossom]

I want to say thank you for everyone's thoughts and opinions. I will seriously consider an evaluation for him. I wouldn't even know where to start, but that bug is in my ear and I will mull over this option over the next little while.

 

 

Read the book The Explosive Child: a new approach to parenting easily frustrated, chronically inflexible children.  It was written by a psychologist who works with kids like yours.  It is a very clear cut, step by step manual for how to *teach* your kids to overcome these difficulties.  He is less concerned with the causes of the behaviour, and rather focuses on the solutions.  And his solutions work regardless of the causes.

 

I've used it's techniques with my older with great results.

 

Ruth in NZ

I read this book several years ago and remember nodding my head the whole way through. It's been a wild and crazy couple years with DH being gone with the military a couple times (a total of 9 months), my mother's death, a new baby... I can't blame myself too much if my retention was low. I loaned the book out to someone and never got it back, but picked it up at a thrift store a while back. I will read this again.

 

You need a psych familiar with gifted children.  That person will help him understand himself, and help him learn to control his emotions and express them appropriately.  Battling with him instead of addressing his emotional needs will get you no where.

 

Susan Winebrenner has a book called "Teaching GIfted Kids in the Regular Classroom" that is helpful not just in the classroom. He should not be viewing school as 'work'.

I checked this book out through our inter library loan. Unfortunately the check-out clock starts ticking as soon as our library gets it, so by the time I picked it up I only got to skim through it a bit before returning it. 

 

We had some big issues with that, and my two oldest students are only a grade apart but for awhile had very different outputs due to reading fluency and writing ability. My older student was consistently bummed that her sister was done way before her, and that caused problems.

We remedied it by several things:

1. I started a workbox (well, work file) system and made sure both students had some fun work between their rigorous academic subjects.

2. I broke up the work load a bit so that some of the time intensive subjects like independent reading were after lunch, during quiet free time. That made the older 'feel' like school was done sooner, since she finished her fifth task right about the time the younger was done for the day, and they all got to play outside together.

3. Jumping jacks. My kids love them and are pretty hilariously uncoordinated, so doing jumping jacks (maybe ten or fifteen) whenever they are beginning to get tired or frustrated gets them giggling, burns off some energy, and has a remarkable healing ability on their attention spans and attitudes. Laps around the house or a quick game, trampoline time, treadmill, etc, would also work beautifully.


These three things saved our school. It was more tears and frustration than fun for a few months there as the work load kept increasing and now they actually enjoy all their subjects again. The moments of frustration outside of a specific tough problem or concept are very, very rare, and everyone feels refreshed even when our overall school day is quite long. The breaks and extra time spent on coloring or puzzles is 100% worth it.

Are you also the one that posted in another thread about "Managers of their Homes?"  I ran across that and I've been wondering if that type of thing would help us. I prefer to go with the flow. I had 4 kids in 4.5 years and quickly threw out any hope of accomplishing "goals" and instead resorted to flying by the seat of our pants everyday.  I still prefer my days to be flexible and relaxed, but I wonder if he needs more predictability and structure. My 7 and 8 year olds have student planners and we write their work in it each day, which is usually just math, spelling, handwriting, grammar, and reading. (Science and history get bumped out a lot.) When he knows what's coming, things are usually better. But when it comes to chores and such I have a tendency to stop everyone and say "let's clean everything up" and then I wonder why that doesn't go very smoothly.Or "quiet time" is announced whenever the baby decides to fall asleep, and then argue over who has to go where and do what.  I wonder if structuring our day so it's all laid out and there are no surprises, and including those fun things, will make things go better. 

 

Lots of good suggestions.

 

your thoughts about how you feel a failure led me to post this link to my blog.

 

http://hotmesshomeschooling.wordpress.com/2014/10/20/parenting-your-challenging-child-rejecting-formulaic-responses/

 

You really need to read this. It's not you.

 

Some kids are just hard hard hard.

Thank you for this. I needed that. I do blame myself for his behavior. I know I yell too much. And while I know he's got his own free will and his own little fiery personality, I tend to blame myself as though if only I could quit yelling, then suddenly he'd quit yelling too. 

 

 You must intervene now.  If this behavior continues, imagine the power he could have over his family or wife one day if they feel they have to tiptoe around his rages.  Is there someone in the family that models rage?  (Don't have to answer, just a question).  It's a dynamic in many families, where the whole family revolves around not "upsetting" another family member by normal everyday things.  Consider reading the book "Boundaries" by Henry Cloud--it's in relation to adult behavior more.  I 45th the need for an evaluation, and hugs to you.

I will admit that I get angry and yell too much. I certainly wouldn't call it rage. I would say that he and I can spiral out of control. I have not yet figured out how to bring him back to normal (or help himself get back) when he's upset. I think I can be calm and collected only to reach my breaking point eventually. There are times I feel like I have been able to bring him back around and what works isn't always consistent. He's a wild card. And it's hard when I've got 4 other kids to tend to. Which is why I tend to feel like this is MY problem... if I could just figure out how to deal with his emotions, instead of making them worse.

 

"I imagine that tip-toeing around him and giving in to his tantrums is probably making things worse."

 

You know, you'd think that. You'd think that not tip-toeing around things would somehow at least make things better, right? Like facing it outright and not being afraid of a tantrum would make the child think, "Oh gosh, this is going badly. Maybe I'll stop the behavior that is causing bad things to happen. This is not working so I will stop."

 

And I could see how you might think that, because that was what I used to think.

 

 

 

 

Maybe they do think that. But for whatever reason, the behavior doesn't stop--even when the child can clearly articulate the fact that they realize they will get nowhere, and on the contrary, that it is against their interests to have a tantrum.

 

I have spent the better part of eight years thinking, "If I just never give in, never, ever, ever, and if I always take the bull by the horns, eventually she will learn that this is not working to control me and she will stop."

 

But she doesn't. Eight years, approximately 1,253,482 repetitions of, "Don't start this or then you won't get anything," and she still starts.

 

However, rest assured, that there is no possible way that tiptoeing around tantrums could make it worse for some kids. How could it possibly be worse? My child has gone to school in bare feet; gone to bed without dinner more times than I can count; has been grounded / in time-out for more than two days in a row because she just couldn't bring herself to give in.

 

"Don't make him do the work if he's going to throw a tantrum, but make it clear in advance that his privileges will be pulled until the work is done."

 

I'd bet my bottom dollar that it is the making clear in advance triggers a tantrum. It sure does in our case.

 

This type of child does not respond to consequences. It's almost like they are color blind and no matter how much you beat them over the head (figuratively) they will NEVER see orange. They just can't see it. My daughter  knows theoretically that she will never, ever get what she wants from me by whining or tantruming. At least, she never has. She knows like she knows that orange is made of red and yellow. But when faced with a choice of "How should I respond to not getting my way?" she just does not apply that theoretical knowledge. Her brain goes, "A good idea right now would be to make everyone else miserable."

 

Now, any normal child would, of course, think, after 567,891 times of this happening, "You know what? If I whine, I won't get what I want. How can I get what I want? I'll do that."

 

It's pretty simple, actually, and I know I'm not crazy for thinking that could work, that because I have one child who is very well-behaved and actually gets commended for being able to follow instructions. I have been told by total strangers that I am a very consistent parent. So I know what you are saying.

 

But as for tiptoeing around a tantrum making it worse... I don't know about that. Some kids don't think in terms of actions-consequences, even with the most diligent parents.

This is totally my DS. We've had that conversation about how throwing a fit will never result in him getting his way. But when emotions are high, he doesn't consider that. When it comes to negotiating schoolwork, if he comes to calm and says "hey, I've got 5 pages here, can I do every other problem?" then I usually will say yes. If he immediately starts freaking out, I'm not going to do it. I try to model the dialogue and even tell him, "Let's try that again a different way. Ask me calmly, etc." It's helpful, but only to a degree and only sometimes. If he melts down too fast, there's no going back.

 

I could really be underestimating how bad it actually is for you - so if I am, disregard. You know your own child better than we do - but I'm a little surprised at all the recommendations for evaluations.

Nothing tips me off to him being atypical, some kids are just easily frustrated perfectionists and overly preoccupied with their definition of justice. I have one of those - she is the first to assume things aren't fair and complain or throw fits when things don't go how she believes they should. Part of teaching and training her has been correcting her attitude and teaching patience, self control, and they she isn't the one who gets to dictate fairness in this household. She needs to worry about herself, not keep comparing her lot to everyone else's.

This has been a several year training exercise, mostly for ME. I tend to blow up and get impatient when she blows up and gets impatient. It's a natural response, but one I have had to work very hard at not having nonetheless. She has enough issues without feeling justified in fighting against the order of the day because mommy a being a tyrant, you know what I mean. She only doubles down if she thinks she has a reason, so my biggest tool in teaching her is remaining calm and refusing to engage in the nonsense. Even in dealing in discipline and consequences for the attitude and sass I have to remain matter of fact and very, very calm. That has helped so much and diffuses it way faster.

After consistency in this we have seem immense improvement. It's almost a non-issue now compared to a few years ago. She will always have this propensity, it is her personality to feel strongly, react quickly, and fight for her way. So my job is to teach her coping skills and hone her personality as it is, instead of eradicating it altogether. She has so many upsides - enthusiasm, persistence, empathy. So we manage the tantrums and teach diligence at difficult tasks, not comparing or coveting what siblings have or trying to decide for mommy and daddy what is fair or just or right. And it has worked, but it isn't a quick thing and it never goes away.

We all have our issues and they never fully leave. But part of parenting is helping our children home the good and overcome the bad in their own tendencies. I don't think a diagnosis is necessary, though it may be helpful. But nothing you mentioned sounds completely atypical. It sounds like a sensitive, reactive, and explosive/demonstrative personality type.

I want to believe that it isn't totally atypical. I mean, he's not your normal kid. Apparently my oldest brother was quite the handful and my mom would tell my dad that he just needed to reason with him. And my dad would retort back, "You can't reason with him!" That's how I feel with him. He's always got very logical (at least in his mind) reasons for his behavior.  

 

Maybe seeing a professional would help in the sense that it would teach ME the strategies to help him cope and calm down. As of right now, my only "tool" is to send him to his room to calm down and that doesn't work at all. He'll wait a few minutes and come stomping out with his lip stuck out telling me "I'm ready to come out." And sometimes (and it's happening more often) when I tell him that he's not going to be around other people when he's acting that way, I sometimes have to physically take him there, either by prodding him along or taking him by the arm. That's only going to last another year or so and then he'll be too big. But I don't know what to do when he's spiraling out of control besides attempt to remove him from the situation.

[8filltheheart]

To address a couple of thoughts......

 

Out of control behaviors are not necessarily learned through modeling. I would have been mortified if someone had suggested that our ds was behaving the way he did bc he was witnessing those behaviors. Our ds definitely had rage behaviors (though his rages did not start until puberty. His meltdowns when he was little were of a very different nature like described below) and he had never witnessed anything like them. And, our poor kids who have witnessed his behaviors have NEVER displayed any type of out of control behavior.

 

(Eta: And to reiterate, screaming, throwing and shoving things, hitting, and slamming doors is not normal 8 yr old behavior. I wouldn't consider those normal behaviors at any age with the exception of isolated incidences like a frustrated toddler hitting and needing to learn that that is inappropriate behavior or a teenager slamming a door.)

 

Finding the right professionafor evaluations and then for therapies can be difficult. kbutton shared above that it took her 2 drs to find the right one. Unfortunately for our ds he also did not receive a correct diagnosis the first time. Our pediatrician was a good support for us. He knew our ds was on the autistic spectrum bc his dd was autistic and he saw the overlapping behaviors. (Ds was with me once when a younger sibling was getting a baby shot and he had a completely uncontrollable meltdown bc he was in panic mode over them doing that to his baby.). The pediatrician helped us get a referral to a neuropsy (The only one in our region.) That dr was completely unprofessional. He initially diagnosed ds as bipolar. Don't accept the diagnosis of a professional who does not do a complete psy evaluation. The quack that diagnosed our ds as bipolar did so based on parental surveys we filled out in about 10 mins sitting in his waiting room. Our ds is most definitely not bipolar. Our pediatrician was shocked by the diagnosis and our experience. He agreed with us completely that that was not what was going on with our ds.

 

It took persistence to find a good psy. It was worth the effort. Our ds was correctly diagnosed with Aspergers with multiple comorbid conditions- high anxiety, OCD, and depression. It took hours of testing and evals to get the correct diagnosis. It was important not only for learning appropriate ways of helping him cope, but also bc our ds is severely impacted as an adult. He has a very high iq and is incredibly intelligent. He cannot, however, cope in normal adult situations. As an adult with his diagnosis he receives support through the state's Dept of Rehabilitative Services. That has been a huge blessing.

[fairfarmhand]

I think you are on to something with structure.

 

So many of these inflexible kids really need structure. First, this, then this then this. When my dd knew what was upcoming, both fun and not so fun stuff, it made things much more bearable.

 

Talk to your son and ask HIM what he needs to do when he starts to get worked up about something. Tell him you are willing to try it for awhile and see if it helps.

[fairfarmhand]

And no, every tantrum doesn't mean the kid's trying to get something. They often mean that the kid's feelings are getting way out of control and they don't know how to handle it. I promise you...Bad things (consequences) always happened to tantruming children. Most of my kids figured out that screaming about a problem was counterproductive. My dd...nope. She's not thinking with her rational self at that moment.

 

She's told me in the past that she has no memories of the awful things she said and did in the heat of the emotion.

[Innisfree]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

I have been where you are, and know how hard this is.

 

Evaluate. Don't wait.

 

But, do prepare carefully. Realize that most pediatricians are not equipped to handle neurological/developmental things that present in subtle ways. Neither are most therapists, even those who deal routinely with children.

 

We have wasted years going through this routine with our dd, who has behaviors similar to your son's. We have dealt with therapists and psychiatrists. The therapists did not have the knowledge base they needed and the psychiatrists were content to keep on trying one medication after another, for months and years on end, without ever seeming to grasp that in the meantime a child was growing up without the coping skills she needed and a family was shattering under the strain. 

 

When your son deliberately does his work poorly, then explodes, he is giving you a signal that he cannot cope with what he is facing. It doesn't mean he isn't smart enough, but for some reason he lacks the skills he needs to face that moment. Without suggesting that he is on the spectrum, read about the autism rage cycle and see if any of that sounds familiar. The poor work, in our house, is the rumbling stage, and a warning to change course or the rage will follow. Read about the cycle: the knowledge is useful. A good book is Asperger Syndrome and Difficult Moments, though it's geared more for classroom environments. You can google it too for a quick look.

 

What you want to find, probably after consultation with your pediatrician or a psychiatrist/psychologist, is a good neuropsychologist who can focus in on your son with laser-like intensity and figure out what the issues are. In all likelihood those issues have nothing to do with your parenting. I've probably been a bit too hard on the various psych professionals we've seen in what I wrote above. We did need to see them to establish the paper trail that there really was something going on. But they've been like the proverbial blind men examining an elephant, each one "seeing" only what they're professionally equipped to see, and no one really able to get the whole picture.

 

I wish I'd pressed harder and sooner for evaluations. 

 

There is hope and help available, but you need to know just what you're dealing with.

[AK_Mom4]

Hugs OP! I had a tough kid - he's off to college now and doing well.  Gifted Perfectionist with a short temper (like his mom!) and thin emotional control.

 

We needed a cheap and easy way to add more schedule without more work for me.

 

DS had a need for control and also a need for more structure than I would normally do.  I set up a standing Sunday afternoon meeting time with him where we would go over his school work for the week.  I would write assignments in his planner during that meeting and have him help me gather up supplies.  Anything I knew that was happening went into the planner too - appointments, play dates, holidays - so he could see what was coming up. Negotiation over school work happened during that meeting. :glare:

 

Each day, he would get his planner out and decide what he wanted to work on first.  If it was something he needed me for, he had to make sure I was available or wait for me to finish with his sister.  While he was waiting, he could work on other things in the planner.  And when everything was checked off (by me) that it was complete - that was it.  He was done for the day.

 

Best of all - it met his criteria for "Fair" because we sat down and hashed it all out on Sunday.  And somehow... having it all written down and me not being the Bad Guy worked - he was actually able to be more flexible when things came up that we weren't expecting (his sister was quite ill at that time so lots of stress in the household).

[JumpyTheFrog]

I think you are on to something with structure.

 So many of these inflexible kids really need structure. First, this, then this then this. When my dd knew what was upcoming, both fun and not so fun stuff, it made things much more bearable.

 

...

 

She's told me in the past that she has no memories of the awful things she said and did in the heat of the emotion.

Tigger doesn't seem to remember what he does either, or at least he won't admit it.

 

OP, your son sounds very, very much like my son, who is also 8. I've been reading "Raising Your Spirited Child" which has been helpful is spotting his triggers. We finally realized that Mondays were consistently the worst day of the week because he couldn't transition from weekend mode to school week mode. So a few weeks ago we switched to doing school every day (but less each day) and that is helping.

 

The book also made us realize his tendency to always be against new ideas the first time. So when we suggest something, we give him time to come around to the idea. For example, a month ago I bought tickets to the symphony, which I knew Tigger would love. When I told him, he seemed indifferent, like it was a boring idea. Later that day he decided it sounded fun.

 

My suggestion would be to stop focusing on the lousy days and look for the "bright spots." If there is a day that is better than other days, try to figure out what was different. I am realizing that Tigger has a huge need for positive attention, which is almost impossible to give him when his behavior has been terrible and all I want to do is hide from the noise and anger.

[Tsuga]

 

And somehow... having it all written down and me not being the Bad Guy worked - he was actually able to be more flexible when things came up that we weren't expecting (his sister was quite ill at that time so lots of stress in the household).

 

I must have been a terrible kid because I need that to. I hate it when things come up daily. Hate. It. It really, really bothers me.

 

I guess I am getting what I deserve. Thanks for all the BTDT moms who are replying to this thread!

[kbutton]

Hugs OP! I had a tough kid - he's off to college now and doing well.  Gifted Perfectionist with a short temper (like his mom!) and thin emotional control.

 

We needed a cheap and easy way to add more schedule without more work for me.

 

DS had a need for control and also a need for more structure than I would normally do.  I set up a standing Sunday afternoon meeting time with him where we would go over his school work for the week.  I would write assignments in his planner during that meeting and have him help me gather up supplies.  Anything I knew that was happening went into the planner too - appointments, play dates, holidays - so he could see what was coming up. Negotiation over school work happened during that meeting. :glare:

 

Each day, he would get his planner out and decide what he wanted to work on first.  If it was something he needed me for, he had to make sure I was available or wait for me to finish with his sister.  While he was waiting, he could work on other things in the planner.  And when everything was checked off (by me) that it was complete - that was it.  He was done for the day.

 

Best of all - it met his criteria for "Fair" because we sat down and hashed it all out on Sunday.  And somehow... having it all written down and me not being the Bad Guy worked - he was actually able to be more flexible when things came up that we weren't expecting (his sister was quite ill at that time so lots of stress in the household).

 

I think this is excellent advice. However, in our case, this didn't work prior to meds (the self-control available to do this wasn't there). I think you should give it a go, but if it doesn't work easily or creates more meltdowns, realize there may be groundwork that needs be done before this idea would work.

[Plink]

Question for the OP - Do you think your son might struggle with anxiety?  In kids it often manifests as anger.  

 

No need to answer here, but I thought it might be something to consider as you work to find solutions for your boy.

 

((hugs))

[Haiku]

I want to say thank you for everyone's thoughts and opinions. I will seriously consider an evaluation for him. I wouldn't even know where to start

Multiple posters have suggested where to start: your pediatrician. If you don't have one, call the nearest children's hospital and ask for a referral to someone who can evaluate an explosive child.

[Storygirl]

I agree with much of what has been written above. I want to add some :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: , because this is hard. In our family, we struggle with some of the same things that you mentioned, and some different things, and we finally started seeking professional help last year when DS was 9. He saw a psychologist who taught him a variety of self-calming techniques. He sees an occupational therapist for a variety of things, including sensory processing issues, and she has also taught us calming techniques (among many other things). I want you to know that there is help out there. You don't have to figure this out on your own.

 

Our path for getting help: pediatrician referred us to child psych, who referred us to a different child psych that he thought would be a better fit (he was right). The psych did a lot of evaluations herself and  then referred us to a neuropsych for further testing. The neuropsych completed a full evaluation with a lot of recommendations, including a referral to occupational therapy (which was also recommended by the child psych).

 

It's hard to know where to start, but the pediatrician should guide you. I agree with screening for anxiety, but there would probably be quite a few things that an evaluator would look into after hearing details about your son's struggles.

 

I understand your reluctance to ask for outside help, but I think it will really be valuable for your whole family in the end. You are dealing with some intense things, and you are under a great amount of stress. You may not be in a position to untangle this yourself. Tap into the advice of experts. And if you do pursue evaluations, come on over to the Learning Challenges board to get advice from the mom experts over there. Your child is advanced academically, so you might not have ventured to that part of the boards yet. Come on over, and you may find some people who have been where you are now, and you will definitely find sympathy and support.

[Elisabet1]

I'm so discouraged. DS8 has always been highly emotional and in the last little while I've felt like a hostage to his emotions.   Like I have to give into his demands or alter my behavior in order to not become a victim to his epic tantrums.  And while I had been hoping he would outgrow this behavior, I've come to the startling and discouraging realization that it's only getting worse.  I know that when I lose my cool, things deteriorate even further, and I'm working on that.  But even when I feel like I handle his outbursts well, I still feel a little bit run over.

 

He's always been incredibly obsessed with fairness. Things have to be exactly the same. (yes, we talk about how fair is not the same as being equal) He's in 3rd grade doing mostly 5th grade work. If his work takes any long than his K or 2nd grade siblings he melts down into a tantrum that could put my 18 month old to shame. I find myself negotiating his work in order to avoid meltdowns. If he does the work poorly (and I mean deliberately bad) he melts down if I dare suggest he re do it.  (FTR, his independent work takes 60-90 minutes max.)   And unfortunately these tantrums tend to escalate into slamming doors, shoving furniture, hitting siblings as they walk by, etc.  If I tell him to go to his room to calm down, I practically have to physically force him there. Sometimes he'll just keep opening his bedroom door to scream at me, just to slam it when I walk towards him again.

 

By the end of the day I am completely wiped out emotionally. I would put him back in PS if he wouldn't be so bored academically. I honestly feel stuck homeschooling him. 

 

When he's good, he's a great kid. When he's bad.... the whole house feels it. I'm tired of it. I'm frustrated. I'm seriously considering putting him on a plane to his grandparents' house for a week.

He sounds like my son with Aspergers.

 

And I use a Love and Logic approach with him.

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

If you are still a military family, you can see a Military Family Life Counselor for free, and it does not go on record anowhere, not in a medical or military record.

 

https://www.mhngs.com/app/programsandservices/mflc_program.content

 

There are also chaplains that can talk to you. If you are not religious, they will just chat and be a good listening ear and have ideas and people and resources to point you to. If you state your religious preferences up front, they will respect them.

 

My children were tougher to deal with during and after deployments, although not to that degree. Also, around 8 or 9, my daughter resented how much more work she had to do than her brother, she felt it was deeply unfair for 6 months to a year no matter how many times I explained calmly that her brother would have the same amount of work when he was her age and that she had the same amount of work as her brother when she was his age. Finding homeschool friends her age and younger who did a few hours more of work than her helped, as did getting older and more mature.

 

I would try not allowing the younger siblings to start their work until he started his work for a while, that might help a bit. Have a set time when everyone starts work for a few weeks.

[Tsuga]

OP, one thing I realized today is how much more I feel guilty for "giving in" to my daughter than people with less explosive / dramatic kids.

 

Tonight the kids had to clean rooms without attitude before going out. My stepson was dawdling and also when criticized, whining. His dad just talked him through it. It was a discussion. They left the house 10 minutes late due to my stepson's lollygagging. Mind you he was not watching YouTube or anything at the time--just thinking for 10 minutes about where to put a book or god knows what.

 

Me and my daughter? First she dawdles. I feel I have to do something because otherwise I'm "sending the wrong message". I tell her to listen to me. She is reading a book. I tell her if she doesn't close the book and look me in the eye, she will lose that book. (I can't just take something away for a week--that will inevitably lead to more arguing until finally the book is thrown away, may as well just recycle it.) She doesn't do it. Rather than negotiate--which would be, to me, "tiptoeing around a tantrum"--I follow through.

 

You see, I am a hard-***. I follow through. Every time.

 

So she loses the book. :(

 

I feel bad enough. But then she ups the ante. I don't want to win. I don't want it to be about winning or losing. I want it to be about love and justice and kindness. But I have this nagging feeling that I'm not consistent enough, I have to be a good mom, I'm not her friend, I have to follow through, if only I followed through 100% of the time, I must have given in in the past, this time I won't give in-- so when she starts crying and whining I tell her she needs to stop, and just clean her room or we won't go.

 

You see how this goes. Initial defiance -> consequence -> more defiance -> greater consequence -> more freaking out -> greater consequence.

 

Soon, there is nothing to miss.

 

So my daughter and I didn't get to go out tonight.

 

But my stepson did.

 

Why? Because he was not explosive, now he gets to negotiate.

 

I feel this is unfair. I believe that I would have been more consistent.

 

But who knows if I would have developed this terrifyingly fascist level of rigid consistency, had I not had a tantrum-thrower, you know? It's like, maybe, just maybe, I could have a relationship with this kid, like my partner has with his son, because he's not afraid of messing his son up for life, he's not afraid that he's a total failure at parenting, he's not afraid that giving in once will undo years of sacrificing a relationship for the sake of perfect consistency. I envy him.

[Ausmumof3]

I agree with other posters that an evaluation could be in order.

 

The workload could be a little high possibly. And sometimes I think it's ok to modify things a bit. I tend to insist for that day but back things off a notch the next if it doesn't go well. So I am not backing down but still listening to his needs.

 

It also sounds like you've had a lot going on.

[Tsuga]

It's really unfair to suggest that consequences are not part of authoritative parenting. We only use logical consequences--if you mistreat others you can't be around them, if you misuse books, etc. you can't have them. I really do not think that is overly punitive. I have used authoritative parenting combined with gentle discipline and logical consequences, in different ways (see literature below) since my kids were born.

 

Your kids are gifted, so maybe they respond to patterns, explanations, etc. Maybe you have found a way to help them behave and understand without behavioral training. I know some kids respond to this. That's great.

 

But my kids are not gifted (at least not the moody child). She doesn't respond to explanations, warnings, etc. I have read every book from Connection Parenting to 1-2-3 Magic to the Happiest Kid on the Block to How to Talk to Adventures in Gentle Discipline to Parent Effectiveness Training (and more).

 

I'm sure I could read one more website, one more piece of advice that suggests that if only I'd listen, if only I'd explain, if only I were more empathetic... somehow, we'd get to school on time. If only I had better boundaries, were calmer, more consistent, more authoritative and less authoritarian, more this and less that. If only, if only.

 

If only my face didn't darken giving her that much-needed reaction when she acted out, so she would not get any feedback for negative behavior. If only my kid didn't learn how to abuse every pattern of behavior within a week so that we would end up going downhill even when I was literally reading the script from a highly acclaimed parenting book.

 

If only I were a better parent, my kid would be able to go out. It's my fault she melts down, and it's my fault that we have not found a solution.

 

I feel really bad about that. In fact I would say the guilt is a little crippling because I NEVER wanted to have a family life like this.

 

I will try that website. I will also work harder to get a counselor.

 

But I'm going to be honest: I have been working within the framework of authoritative, gentle, and assertive parenting with specific, firm, and 100% consistent consequences for eight years and it has done just about jack for my family. So I'm a little worn down right now in terms of feeling like I can somehow change.

 

I think the problem is that I'm expressive so you can tell on my face or in my voice when I'm unhappy (even when I try to hide it). That is not a good quality to have as a parent. Short of psychotropic drugs, I have not heard of a good way to stop myself from being like that. And I'm not willing to sacrifice that quite yet... I'll save the side-effects for the teen years.

[myfunnybunch]

It's really unfair to suggest that consequences are not part of authoritative parenting. We only use logical consequences--if you mistreat others you can't be around them, if you misuse books, etc. you can't have them. I really do not think that is overly punitive. I have used authoritative parenting combined with gentle discipline and logical consequences, in different ways (see literature below) since my kids were born.

 

Your kids are gifted, so maybe they respond to patterns, explanations, etc. Maybe you have found a way to help them behave and understand without behavioral training. I know some kids respond to this. That's great.

 

But my kids are not gifted (at least not the moody child). She doesn't respond to explanations, warnings, etc. I have read every book from Connection Parenting to 1-2-3 Magic to the Happiest Kid on the Block to How to Talk to Adventures in Gentle Discipline to Parent Effectiveness Training (and more).

 

I'm sure I could read one more website, one more piece of advice that suggests that if only I'd listen, if only I'd explain, if only I were more empathetic... somehow, we'd get to school on time. If only I had better boundaries, were calmer, more consistent, more authoritative and less authoritarian, more this and less that. If only, if only.

 

If only my face didn't darken giving her that much-needed reaction when she acted out, so she would not get any feedback for negative behavior. If only my kid didn't learn how to abuse every pattern of behavior within a week so that we would end up going downhill even when I was literally reading the script from a highly acclaimed parenting book.

 

If only I were a better parent, my kid would be able to go out. It's my fault she melts down, and it's my fault that we have not found a solution.

 

I feel really bad about that. In fact I would say the guilt is a little crippling because I NEVER wanted to have a family life like this.

 

I will try that website. I will also work harder to get a counselor.

 

But I'm going to be honest: I have been working within the framework of authoritative, gentle, and assertive parenting with specific, firm, and 100% consistent consequences for eight years and it has done just about jack for my family. So I'm a little worn down right now in terms of feeling like I can somehow change.

 

I think the problem is that I'm expressive so you can tell on my face or in my voice when I'm unhappy (even when I try to hide it). That is not a good quality to have as a parent. Short of psychotropic drugs, I have not heard of a good way to stop myself from being like that. And I'm not willing to sacrifice that quite yet... I'll save the side-effects for the teen years.

 

:grouphug: Honey, you are being WAY too hard on yourself. None of us have that level of control over another human being.

 

Your child is her own person with her own neurological makeup and her own reactions. Of course we're responsible for controlling our own behaviors, and as parents we try to change our own behaviors and reactions in order to best model and facilitate teaching appropriate behaviors and reactions to our children, but that is as far as our ability extends.

 

Reading your post, I see you doing the best you can to patiently, kindly, lovingly help your child who is wired differently to learn to navigate the world. You're doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing.

 

Cat