Racism: are things getting better?

[Heather in Neverland]

An incident happened yesterday that gave me a tiny bit of hope for our present and future when it comes to racism:

 

While eating lunch at the mall, a man (complete stranger to us) walked up to us and said, "I apologize for interrupting but I just had to tell you that you have the most beautiful family. I'm from London and I've been traveling all over the world and I've seen a lot of things, but your international family is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen."

 

We were pretty speechless. Our unusual family typically just gets lots of stares and the occasional insensitive question about adoption (are those your real kids?). This is a first for us.

 

Then my youngest son asked why the man was so interested in our family and what did he mean by "international"? My oldest son piped in with, "You know, because I'm white, Natalie's Indian and you're Korean?" And Alex said, "oh yeah! I forgot. But what's the big deal? It's just our skin color."

 

That moment has been buzzing around my head all day and night.

 

I think it's pretty awesome that racism is not a factor for my children to the point that they often forget we are "different" at all... That we actually had to explain why the man was intrigued by us (my ds thinks our family is normal to the point of boring!). I actually had to explain racism to him. He said, "I remember that from when we studied the Civil War but I thought that was a long time ago?"

 

Ah, the innocence of children. But it got me thinking... When I was his age in the 70s and early 80s, racism was not only present but common in my life. My family is from the Deep South, grew up during the 50s and 60s, and carried a lot of racist notions that were pretty openly expressed. And I grew up in the Detroit area, well know for its civil rights issues. I never even actually talked to a black person until I was 18yo because my parents kept us insulated in a white community. Seriously.

 

Growing up I can say that I did not harbor the same level of racism as my parents did (I didn't really get what they were all worked up about) but being raised in that environment definitely affected me and I had to determine on my own to break from that kind of thinking. When I adopted my ds from Korea 10 years ago, our families were pretty mortified. Five years later we adopted an Indian baby and they were more a little more accepting.

 

But the incident yesterday gave me hope. The man who approached us was younger than me, probably growing up in the 90s, and his attitude toward a multirace family was really positive. My children growing up in the 21st century, don't get why that man even noticed us at all. My hope is that my grandchildren, who will probably end up all being biracial, will not even be familiar with the word racism. Is that too much to hope?

 

So, are things getting better where you are? Is there truly hope that, with each new generation, racism becomes obsolete... Just something they read about from history that makes them think how strange their ancestors were? Wouldn't that be great?

[Excelsior! Academy]

Things are getting better.  We are raising children from very different ethnicities, although only one is obviously different at first glance.  The only comments and looks we have gotten are from people of similar ethnicity to his.  For most people it is not a blip on their radar.  If nothing else we get comments like yours, "How beautiful they all are." 

[Kerileanne99]

I honestly think it is in many areas. As long as parents mostly stay out of their children's way in this area, don't contaminate them with their outdated and biased ways of thought, that is! When I know families and hear a questionable comment coming from a child, I can only hear them parroting their parents:(

Of course, this works both ways:)

 

Your experience reminds me of one of my own: from age 15 mo my dd had a part-time nanny. The girl was a young college student, fair-skinned and blond-haired. When my dd was almost 4 we were at a large science museum and she saw a girl almost exactly the same build, same style of dress, and long hair in an identical style.

The only difference was that this young lady had black skin and black hair! My dd seriously thought it was her nanny from the side view!

 

This truly gives me hope. In fact, when we did our lesson on Martin Luther King, Jr. Day it was the first holiday I considered NOT doing...not because it isn't important, but because it almost seemed like I was robbing her of that innocence and TEACHING the difference in skin color:(

 

Unfortunately, the world isn't perfect and I finally decided I would rather her learn from me in a respectful manner than out and about.

How wonderful that your children found the encounter strange:)

[Lang Syne Boardie]

We live with one foot in the city and one foot in a mid-sized midwestern town.

 

In the city it is getting better. In the town it is getting worse; not just about racism but also about classism. They want a bubble, and the 1950s (Ozzie and Harriet) look mighty fine from where they are sitting.

 

This is why we never do move to the small town, even though I'm tired of homeschooling and would like to put the kids in school sometimes and the small town schools are "better." When I remember these problems that are very serious to me, "better" is not actually "better" at all and we choose to stay in the city. I'm not raising kids in a bubble. I just can't.

 

[Kerileanne99]

We live with one foot in the city and one foot in a mid-sized midwestern town.

 

In the city it is getting better. In the town it is getting worse; not just about racism but also about classism. They want a bubble, and the 1950s (Ozzie and Harriet) look mighty fine from where they are sitting.

 

This is why we never do move to the small town, even though I'm tired of homeschooling and would like to put the kids in school sometimes and the small town schools are "better." When I remember these problems that are very serious to me, "better" is not actually "better" at all and we choose to stay in the city. I'm not raising kids in a bubble. I just can't.

 

 

This is one of the biggest problems I have with the town where we currently reside. It really IS a bubble. In fact, the people actually call it the 'X Bubble' and most like it that way. It is a Uni town, so not so much by ethnicity as by education and socioeconomic status, as well as having a primarily consistent religious/social/education philosophy. I just want so much more for my kid!

[Halftime Hope]

What does it mean when you say that people in a small town want to live in a bubble?  Could you help me visualize what that means on a practical, day to day basis?  (I'm wondering because this sounds a bit like a convo from some months ago that I had with a  city manager near me.)

[Slache]

I've lived in Cincinnati where racism is rampant. I've actually been snubbed by african american toddlers because their parents taught them to do so by their own actions.

 

Now we live outside of Portland and I've noticed something interesting in my own kids. My son used to always tell me that black men look like Daddy. My daughter does the same thing now. The reason they do this is because he has very curly hair. He could have an afro if he wanted, but he keeps it very short.

 

I think that because people are intermingling based on personality rather than race our children are not seeing white groups and black groups, and therefore are not naturally learning to group people by skin color. It's pretty cool to see the generational difference.

 

Racism will never go away, especially with the media the way it is, but it is getting better.

[Farrar]

In some ways, I think so.  Certainly among well-educated middle class urban people there seems to be very little question of awareness of issues of race and a very positive feeling about diversity like Heather reported.

 

On the other hand, every time I visit my less well-educated small town family someone says something that is just appalling.  Like these gems from the last couple of years... "If you put too many black children in a mixed class, they bring everyone down to the black level.  That's just a fact."  And, "White people never do violence against black people.  Black people just kill each other because they're so violent."  Also, the prevalence of the "Obama is a secret Muslim" sentiment which I've heard people express there repeatedly.  And I haven't seen that change appreciably in a long time.  At some point, people stopped using the N-word, but the sentiments haven't changed that much.

 

And, honestly, while there is an awareness of issues of privilege in the liberal urban area where I live and while there are definitely some wonderful moments, I also see a lot of racial tensions around gentrification, around crime, around culture.  Maybe there's progress, but I don't feel like we should all pat ourselves on the back or anything.

[ThisIsTheDay]

 

Racism will never go away, especially with the media the way it is, but it is getting better.

 

Bingo.  The media will always go for the drama, no matter what the topic.

 

I refuse to answer race questions on anything. If pressed or required, I choose Other and write in "Human."

 

My job requires me to make a visual assessment of a client's race if they do not answer on a form.  I really, really find this so offensive. 

 

I remember years ago when I refused to answer at a job, and the person in charge decided I must be Hispanic because my boyfriend at the time was.  Hahaha!  (I wasn't, but boy was her ignorance showing.)

[Slache]

My job requires me to make a visual assessment of a client's race if they do not answer on a form.  I really, really find this so offensive. 

 

That's disgusting.

[ThisIsTheDay]

That's disgusting.

 

Requirement of the federal government.

[elegantlion]

Where I live racism is more behind closed doors, but it's there. The younger generations are better, older people still don't get how some of their natural tone of conversation is racist. Our area is not diverse. It's also shifted from African-Americans to Muslims and Mexicans. It's sad and makes me want to live somewhere else. I'm on the outskirts of a large Midwestern city. In the city, I assume it's a little better. 

 

Where we used to live racism was alive and well and living out in broad daylight. It was also steeped in classism. 

 

 

[Heather in Neverland]

We live with one foot in the city and one foot in a mid-sized midwestern town.

 

In the city it is getting better. In the town it is getting worse; not just about racism but also about classism. They want a bubble, and the 1950s (Ozzie and Harriet) look mighty fine from where they are sitting.

 

This is why we never do move to the small town, even though I'm tired of homeschooling and would like to put the kids in school sometimes and the small town schools are "better." When I remember these problems that are very serious to me, "better" is not actually "better" at all and we choose to stay in the city. I'm not raising kids in a bubble. I just can't.

 

 

That's an interesting factor... City vs. small town. I hadn't thought of it that way. I live in a city. I sometimes wonder what kind of experience we will face when we move back to the states and it sounds like it depends on where we move to.

 

So now I wonder what affects the level of racist attitudes in an area the most...

City?

Suburb?

Small town?

Level of education in the area?

Income level of the area?

Religion of the area?

Etc.?

 

Philosophically speaking but also I am thinking practically...

 

If I'm looking to move somewhere with warm weather (I am), what is going to be my best bet if I want to live in a place where my multirace family will be most accepted and my children will not have to face a lot of racist attitudes?

 

Wait, I think I just derailed my own thread... :)

[elegantlion]

http://www.city-data.com/ has demographics on individual towns. It could be a good place to look at more localized areas. 

[celticmom]

I live in Mississippi and I discovered that dd did not know what race was when she was 8. I have realized that she probably gets more exposure to a diverse range of people as a homeschooler than she would in our local schools. It never occurred to her to categorize people by appearance.

[Murphy101]

Too tired to discuss details and small towns vs cities.

 

But I do think it is getting better.

 

My children didn't have any concept of racism until they took college classes and saw students behave that way. They knew about it from reading and such, but personally had little engagement with it.

 

They knew their grandparents are pretty racist, but they chalked that up to "old senile people". ;p

 

ETa:

I think classism is the new racism.

 

People can handle darker skin just fine.

 

As long as you aren't poor.

 

Them poor people tho? Yeahhh. People are prejudiced against the poor of any color more than than anything I think.

[Camelfeet]

Yes, blatant racism by the middle class is on the decline in western countries (I think).  I think racism in other places is as alive and kicking as ever, and it isn't going to go away until there is more economic equality.... which won't happen in my life time.

 

 

[marbel]

When I lived on the west coast, we didn't see any problems with racism.   It was very diverse and we had a diverse group of friends, with multiracial marriages, adoptions, etc.  My kids were stunned one day when I mentioned that some (black) friends had been adopted by their (white) parents.  I thought, whoa, isn't that obvious?  But they were young and it just never occurred to them.

 

Now on the east coast, it is very different. There is much more racial separation and more racism overall. I live in an almost exclusively white neighborhood; a black neighborhood is adjacent to it.  The two are completely separate.  The town pool is in the black neighborhood and when we moved here I was warned not to use it.  I thought pffft, I'm paying taxes to support the pool, it's the town pool, what?  We did go a few times, and had fun though we did feel out of place. We were the only white people there and no one talked to us at all.  It was pretty obvious we didn't belong.  If I have to drive through there, I get a lot of strange looks and a couple of times people have walked into the middle of the street to force me to stop, then laughed and got out of the way.  

 

Just another reason I miss the west. 

 

ETA: suburbs of a large city.

[kiwik]

It is different definitely but maybe not better.

[Laura Corin]

I think that things are getting better.  In 1993, the issue of whether Denzel Washington would or would not kiss Julia Roberts in 'The Pelican Brief' was much discussed.  In the film 'Love, Actually' there's a plot line where a young man is in love with his best friend's fiancee.  It's not mentioned, and is not relevant to the plot, that the affianced couple are black/white.  It's just not an issue.  The film was made in 2003.  I do feel that, decade by decade, there is a shift.

 

L

 

 

[Heather in Neverland]

I think that things are getting better. In 1993, the issue of whether Denzel Washington would or would not kiss Julia Roberts in 'The Pelican Brief' was much discussed. In the film 'Love, Actually' there's a plot line where a young man is in love with his best friend's fiancee. It's not mentioned, and is not relevant to the plot, that the affianced couple are black/white. It's just not an issue. The film was made in 2003. I do feel that, decade by decade, there is a shift.

 

L

I did not know that about The Pelican Brief. Very interesting!

[Farrar]

I don't know if "not seeing race" is really a good marker of whether racism is getting better or worse.  I think about the studies profiled in Nurtureshock and it seems like the biggest mistake white parents make is to assume that their child not being able to articulate race is a positive thing since in the long term they showed that it was a negative.

[Carrie12345]

I really don't know.
I live in a pretty diverse area, and it looks lovely from my perspective, but then I read the local newspaper and hear stories... :(

 

I grew up thinking racism was dying out with my grandparents' generation, but then I heard a terrible statement out of a friend's parent's mouth that crushed that thought. 

 

I just don't witness much racism myself, so I tend to forget it's there. We're a pretty boring white family with a limited social network of very liberal friends.  Which is nice, but probably not representative of the bigger picture.

[VaKim]

People who want a reason to hate will find something, whether it is race, social status, politics, weight, sex, etc. These kinds of people are not going to get better. 

 

 

[Camelfeet]

I don't know if "not seeing race" is really a good marker of whether racism is getting better or worse.  I think about the studies profiled in Nurtureshock and it seems like the biggest mistake white parents make is to assume that their child not being able to articulate race is a positive thing since in the long term they showed that it was a negative.

 

Reminds me of this... http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/i-dont-see-race.jpg

[Anne in CA]

Coming from the Portland Metro Area I agree with the people who believe that people are more obsessed with class than race at this time... BUT I worked in a large hotel for many years and Portland's top private schools with the exception on Jesuit are almost exclusively white, so there is still a problem if a city like Portland is still so exclusive at the top.

[Heather in Neverland]

I don't know if "not seeing race" is really a good marker of whether racism is getting better or worse. I think about the studies profiled in Nurtureshock and it seems like the biggest mistake white parents make is to assume that their child not being able to articulate race is a positive thing since in the long term they showed that it was a negative.

That's an interesting point. I don't if I would say my kids don't "see" race but more like it isn't the number one defining factor for them. It is a factor of course but just not as important as whether or not someone is nice, honest, friendly, etc. We celebrate our children's heritage and do everything we can to teach them about it (including hiring a nanny that speaks Tamil to teach our dd her native language). We want them to be comfortable with who they are. But we don't want race to be the first thing that comes to mind when they meet someone. I think that is a step forward. It was not like that when I was growing up. Race always seemed to be the first thing, unfortunately.

[EmilyGF]

We live in a very diverse area, but there are still lines. They are drawn on education and socio-economic status.

 

Emily

[Pawz4me]

I don't know if "not seeing race" is really a good marker of whether racism is getting better or worse.  I think about the studies profiled in Nurtureshock and it seems like the biggest mistake white parents make is to assume that their child not being able to articulate race is a positive thing since in the long term they showed that it was a negative.

 

I haven't seen those studies, but your comment reminded me of a conversation I had with a co-worker friend many years ago.  I was describing a man and as part of the description I said he was black.  My friend immediately said that was a racist comment.  And I kinda sorta saw her point that it could be racist.  But I contended that my usage of it wasn't, as it had no more importance to me than the other words I had used to describe him (tall, etc.).  It was just a descriptor and nothing more to me.  I still wonder sometimes who was right about that, or if either/both of us were.

[marbel]

I haven't seen those studies, but your comment reminded me of a conversation I had with a co-worker friend many years ago.  I was describing a man and as part of the description I said he was black.  My friend immediately said that was a racist comment.  And I kinda sorta saw her point that it could be racist.  But I contended that my usage of it wasn't, as it had no more importance to me than the other words I had used to describe him (tall, etc.).  It was just a descriptor and nothing more to me.  I still wonder sometimes who was right about that, or if either/both of us were.

 

This has bothered me in the past too.   If I am describing someone so another person can identify them, why wouldn't I include the color of skin?  It's a part of their description.  It seems weird to leave it out.  I don't know how it could be racist unless some derogatory comments were included in the description. 

 

It reminds me of something amusing that happened when I was working.  A sales rep I worked with took me to task one day for not alerting him that one of the women in my work group was black.  She was part of the sales support team I was supervisor of and talked on the phone to the sales rep often.  Apparently they were talking right after she returned from a vacation in a tropical place and the sales rep asked if she came back "all brown."  She laughed and told him she was black.  She was not offended but rather thought it was funny.  He was embarrassed and blamed me for not telling him.  I couldn't think of a reason I would have mentioned it.    Now, if she was meeting him for a meeting somewhere and he needed to identify her, of course I would have included that information as it could be helpful. 

 

ETA:  I guess I might not think to add skin color as a descriptor for a white person since I live in a white majority area.  "Well, she has blonde hair and green eyes" probably doesn't need skin color added.  My description is "mousy brown hair with gray roots and blue eyes" so white is implied.  I have a niece who is half Hispanic and has dark skin.  I guess I would include that if I was describing her to someone.

 

 

[Haiku]

I wonder whether most of the people responding to this thread are white.

 

My daughter says that her experience varies depending on whom she is hanging out with.

 

If she's the black girl in a group of white kids, everything is fine. However, if she is with a group of black kids, they are treated very differently.

[Hunter's Moon]

While I think blatant racism is fading out, it is being replaced by an Us vs. Them mentality.

 

Whites have their ideas of the Blacks and Hispanics, and Blacks and Hispanics have their ideas of the Whites. It is a sad situation, but ones that seems to be taught and perpetuated to the new generations.

[Jane in NC]

I haven't seen those studies, but your comment reminded me of a conversation I had with a co-worker friend many years ago.  I was describing a man and as part of the description I said he was black.  My friend immediately said that was a racist comment.  And I kinda sorta saw her point that it could be racist.  But I contended that my usage of it wasn't, as it had no more importance to me than the other words I had used to describe him (tall, etc.).  It was just a descriptor and nothing more to me.  I still wonder sometimes who was right about that, or if either/both of us were.

 

 

This has bothered me in the past too.   If I am describing someone so another person can identify them, why wouldn't I include the color of skin?  It's a part of their description.  It seems weird to leave it out.  I don't know how it could be racist unless some derogatory comments were included in the description. 

 

 

I had a revelation concerning this a number of years ago when I was in grad school sharing an office with two other students.  It occurred to me that if one of my white students stopped in when I was out, I would be told that "One of your students came by."  If one of my black students paid a visit, I would be told "One of your black students came by."  Are there people and black people or just people?

 

Descriptors can be valuable.  My Cherokee friend is very proud of her heritage but she has paid a steep price for not being white.  I call her my Cherokee friend because she strongly identifies herself with the Cherokee nation. 

 

But some of the other physical descriptors don't always seem necessary, as in a student is a student, a bank teller is a bank teller, etc. 

[Melinda in VT]

 

It reminds me of something amusing that happened when I was working.  A sales rep I worked with took me to task one day for not alerting him that one of the women in my work group was black.  She was part of the sales support team I was supervisor of and talked on the phone to the sales rep often.  Apparently they were talking right after she returned from a vacation in a tropical place and the sales rep asked if she came back "all brown."  She laughed and told him she was black.  She was not offended but rather thought it was funny.  He was embarrassed and blamed me for not telling him.  I couldn't think of a reason I would have mentioned it.    Now, if she was meeting him for a meeting somewhere and he needed to identify her, of course I would have included that information as it could be helpful. 

 

 

You were fine. Your sales rep was just embarrassed and wanted to blame someone else. Although I do sympathize with him. I telecommute and work closely with people I never meet. It can be jolting to realize your mental picture of someone does not match their physical reality. It took me a year to realize one of my co-workers was Chinese American. There have been other cases (not race related) where I finally met someone or saw a good picture of them and thought they looked nothing like their voice.

 

I had a revelation concerning this a number of years ago when I was in grad school sharing an office with two other students.  It occurred to me that if one of my white students stopped in when I was out, I would be told that "One of your students came by."  If one of my black students paid a visit, I would be told "One of your black students came by."  Are there people and black people or just people?

 

Descriptors can be valuable.  My Cherokee friend is very proud of her heritage but she has paid a steep price for not being white.  I call her my Cherokee friend because she strongly identifies herself with the Cherokee nation. 

 

But some of the other physical descriptors don't always seem necessary, as in a student is a student, a bank teller is a bank teller, etc. 

 

I have relatives who do this. They always mention the race of non-white people they are talking about. I don't think they realize they are doing it, and I think it stems from a desire to show they aren't racist. (See! I know black people!)

 

In general, I think it's ok to mention race or skin color if you are also mentioning other physical descriptors. In other words, if you are trying to tell me how to recognize or find someone, and you're telling me hair color, and eye color, and height, and whether they wear glasses, it seems weird to leave out skin color (unless, as has been mentioned, the skin color is obvious from the hair and eye color).

[flyingiguana]

To me, it is shockingly different in the US.  I don't mean that in a bad way.  Just that I'm genuinely shocked that things have changed so much.  Admittedly, I've never lived in the south or in any town under 100,000, so my view is only city living.

 

This isn't to say it's better to the extent of being ok, but there is HUGE difference in how things were when I was a kid.  And no, it's not just because it's gone behind closed doors.  (Even if that was all it was, that still would be an improvement)

 

I grew up in a white city.  I apparently didn't even see anyone of a different race until I was 3 or so.  That's how segregated it was.  In that same area, whites are now in a minority, and it's not because the neighborhood has "gone downhill".  It's a very desirable location.  Not that many people really worry all that much about race there anymore -- even folks over the age of 70 or so seem to have forgotten a lot of the things they used to say.

 

Where I currently live, there isn't even all that much thought given to race that I can see.  I do notice that there are still issues of segregation in housing from one small area to the next.  I assume some of that is historical, from the rather recent redlining and discrimination in house selling (and it takes some time for older residents to move out).  However, there is either still a large income disparity OR a big difference in preference for location.  It's probably both, with more emphasis on the former.

 

So, no, things aren't completely equal financially speaking, but a lot of that probably stems from inheritance of money, not from job discrimination.  In another couple of generations, I would guess that this is going to equalize even more, as kids who went through college in my generation start leaving money to their kids and grandkids. 

 

But there's been a huge change in the last 50 years.  Anyone who thinks nothing has changed just hasn't been around very long.  And didn't bother to read any history.

[flyingiguana]

In response to the OP:  Around here, though, if some stranger came up and complimented a family such as yours as being a beautiful, international family, people would think he was being insensitive and racist.

 

[kewb]

In some ways it is better.  I know my teens think it is ridiculous to hate an entire race of people based on skin color or religion.

I also think in some ways nothing has changed.  Racism is alive and well and still being taught to generation after generation.  Only now I think it is more a wolf in sheep's clothing then in your face racism.  The racist will smile to your face, sit next to you on the bus, conduct business with you, and then go home to their family and tell their family and close friends about how nice they were to the {insert racist slur here}.

[Heather in Neverland]

In response to the OP: Around here, though, if some stranger came up and complimented a family such as yours as being a beautiful, international family, people would think he was being insensitive and racist.

That's an interesting comment. I think that goes back to the whole "we are supposed to be color blind" mindset. Some have swung the pendulum so far back in the other direction it's like we are supposed to act like we are all LITERALLY the same color.

 

It's a fine line. I don't want people to treat my kids poorly because of their race but I also don't want people to act like my kids are NOT Korean or Indian. Then it feels like it's something they should be embarrassed about. It is supposed to be a descriptor (straight hair, short, Korean, male, etc.) NOT a commentary.

 

Funny story: my children spend a lot of time in the sun and so my youngest two, despite being different ethnicities, are about the same skin tone. The other day they were both sitting on the couch in their undies after a bath and my ds said, "Look mom, Natalie's camouflaged! You can't see her if she's sitting on my lap because we are the same color!" It made me laugh. To him it is just a color, not a commentary. I like it that way.

[AimeeM]

I think it is. We live in a mid-sized southern city/town. My daughter didn't believe slavery or the entire race factor of the 50's-70's was real. I mean, she sincerely thought the history books were spinning a tale until she was around 10 and could really understand that things happened before she was alive, in a concrete way. The catholic schools she attended before homeschooling were diverse (white, hispanic, asian), the public school she attended for part of a school year was very diverse, and the private dyslexia school she attended certainly leaned more white, but had some racial diversity.

I'm glad she attended those schools, if for no other reason than to expose her to diversity, as the reality is that within our own bubble (the immediate area we live in) there is NO racial diversity (as in, our subdivision and the surrounding subdivisions, and our homeschool support network).

 

This does remind me of an incident at the gas station across from our subdivision. I stopped in to grab something, and an older african american gentleman held the door for me. I said, "thank you, sir", and instead of nodding, as is typical, he went off on a tangent - "why do white folk think that calling us "sir" and "ma'am" will make up for anything....", and on and on. I looked him in the eye and replied that I had been raised in the south, and if I had ever addressed ANY adult, regardless of color, as anything other than "sir" or "ma'am", my daddy would have knocked straight upside my head. It broke the tension and he started laughing. I did too. It's stuck with me, though, for some reason.

[KrissiK]

My family is a multi-racial family. Dh and I are of German descent, 4 of my children are all Hispanic and one is bi-racial, Hispanic and black. Our town is about 80% Hispanic, so dh and I are a minority. The only one of our kids who has experienced racism is our bi-racial child. Once in the doctor's office another child (a stranger) referred to him as a "black-ican", which is a term I had never heard. He has very very dark chocolaty brown skin, and a lot of people have asked if he is Middle eastern. He's a good looking boy, but his features are kind of hard to determine his heritage. He was victim of racist remarks last year at church camp, believe it or not. Fortunately that boy was at another camp this year.

[Elisabet1]

I did not grow up in the deep south. Where I grew up, I never saw racism. Then I moved to a place in the bible belt and saw a few incidents, but it went both ways. I have some non-white family members now, here in the bible belt, and have had issues with them. Some of the kids from my brother's inlaws told my children when they were young that my children were not real family and did not belong there because they were white. Never mind that niece, who the birthday party was for, was biracial. I see sexism here in the south. And about the racism, I have seen it against us, but I have never seen it go the other way. This might be because I have nothing to do with racist people. I would never associate with or be friends with anyone who has any hint of racism. And I have friends of a variety of races and I know plenty of people who have adopted kids of a variety of races.

 

Perhaps the issues you experienced were related to growing up in the deep south.

[SemiSweet]

I think blatant racism has improved but the deep undertones of our society still seeks to keep certain groups "in their place". It is very important for the functioning of our classist/racist society to have people divide people and perpetuate the us vs. them mentality.

 

Institutional racism, however, is doing better than ever. One in three black men (one in six Latinos)will serve time in jail in his lifetime, many labeled felons and stripped of their American rights while whites continue to commit the same crimes at a higher rate. Only 1 in 17 whites serve time, then they are less likely to be labeled a felon. The "War on Drugs" as designed by Ronald Reagan was/is an extremely clever way to replace Jim Crow. Every president after has "toughened up" these racist laws in an effort to not be seen as soft on crime and thus, has perpetuated the cycle of racism. When and if the War on Drugs goes away, I'm sure it will be replaced by another brilliant mechanism to ensure that racist undertones are always prevalent in our society. The way our society functions almost requires it, so the only way to change it would be to change our own attitudes, our legislators, and our legislation. Even the Supreme Court is down with racism (allowing cops to pull people over for driving while black and then conduct a search) as long as no one ever admits that they are being racisist. Institutional racism goes down to the very core of this country.

[Murmer]

I agree with a lot that has been said...the blatant in your face racism is very much disappearing...people know that they should not say things like that out loud and if they don't they are learning via celebs that are getting in trouble for their mouths.  BUT there is inherent racism that is not going away...it is in the underpinning of so many things in our society.  Its the bias' and stereotypes that abound...it is even sort of in the comment that starts this thread...he commented because of the otherness of the family and otherness is part of the problem....Its in comments like wow you much be a basketballer because my kid is black and tall...yes she may like basketball but I don't think that will be her identity and even if it is in the future how can someone say that to a child at 5 or 6....its because she is black that is a form of racism (via bias).  BUT these conversations these are changing the world and the fact that people are thinking about it and talking about means that there is a hope that society can really change and that in a few generations we truly will be a post racial society in which skin color differences are celebrated!

 

In my family we talk about skin color all the time...I will tell people my kids are the ones who are black one because it makes them easily identifiable.  My kids point out all the time that we are white and they are brown and notice when others are black or white.  It gives them ownership of who they are and part of who they are is their race but it does no more than determine the amount of pigment and not the rest of their lives.

[Slojo]

I think it is silly to avoid using race as a descriptor out of fear of some sort of racism and I think your friend was being ridiculous.

 

I find it pretty ridiculous that someone wouldn't mention my race/skin color as a descriptor if someone needed it to correctly identify me. If someone who didn't know me was waiting to pick me up at an airport, and you failed to tell them I was black -- going by she has brown eyes and dark hair isn't going to help much and might make for a frustrating "meeting up" experience for all involved. Just go ahead and say African-American woman of average height with brown eyes and dread locs -- kinda narrows things down considerably. I can't think of any reason why mentioning I'm black should be problematic as a way to describe me -- unless those others have a problem with black people.  

 

You were fine. Your sales rep was just embarrassed and wanted to blame someone else...

 

I have relatives who do this. They always mention the race of non-white people they are talking about. I don't think they realize they are doing it, and I think it stems from a desire to show they aren't racist. (See! I know black people!)

 

In general, I think it's ok to mention race or skin color if you are also mentioning other physical descriptors. In other words, if you are trying to tell me how to recognize or find someone, and you're telling me hair color, and eye color, and height, and whether they wear glasses, it seems weird to leave out skin color (unless, as has been mentioned, the skin color is obvious from the hair and eye color).

That story made me laugh, and really, he should have laughed too. Technically, if she spent any time in the sun she probably DID come back with a darker tan of some sort -- just how that kind of thing works and all ;-). And maybe he just should stick to "Was it relaxing?" next time -- though maybe that would offend someone who spent their vacation on a mountain where the only trail down was 2 feet wide with no barrier between them and the 1000 drop, LOL ;-). 

 

I see race as just a descriptor, though I could see how it would be annoying if someone's telling a story and  goes out of their way to mention race when it's not relevant to the story. I imagine I've been "this black woman" or "my black friend" in more than one person's story. Though I wouldn't really know -- people who are not black who happen to have racial hang-ups/insecurities tend to contort themselves to make sure they "don't say the wrong thing" when I'm around and sometimes contort themselves to avoid any mention of race, so I'm not privy to that particular kind of "race talk."  It reminds me of the comedian Margaret Cho who joked about ordering the Asian Chicken Salad in a restaurant, and the waitress being so embarrassed that when she came back to serve the food, she says, "Uhh -- here's your -- uhh -- Chicken Salad!"  What did the waitress think she was going to do, get irate and say, "This is not the salad of my people!"  I swear I cannot see the words Asian Chicken Salad on a menu and not burst into laughter!

 

I agree with a lot that has been said...the blatant in your face racism is very much disappearing...people know that they should not say things like that out loud and if they don't they are learning via celebs that are getting in trouble for their mouths.  BUT there is inherent racism that is not going away...it is in the underpinning of so many things in our society.  Its the bias' and stereotypes that abound...it is even sort of in the comment that starts this thread...he commented because of the otherness of the family and otherness is part of the problem....Its in comments like wow you much be a basketballer because my kid is black and tall...yes she may like basketball but I don't think that will be her identity and even if it is in the future how can someone say that to a child at 5 or 6....its because she is black that is a form of racism (via bias).  BUT these conversations these are changing the world and the fact that people are thinking about it and talking about means that there is a hope that society can really change and that in a few generations we truly will be a post racial society in which skin color differences are celebrated!

 

In my family we talk about skin color all the time...I will tell people my kids are the ones who are black one because it makes them easily identifiable.  My kids point out all the time that we are white and they are brown and notice when others are black or white.  It gives them ownership of who they are and part of who they are is their race but it does no more than determine the amount of pigment and not the rest of their lives.

 

On a much more serious note, I agree with much of this. I am the daughter of parents who were children in the segregated south - colored water fountains, Jim Crow laws, the whole nine.  My grandmother was over 40 years old before she could vote in the country of her birth... so, yes, I have perspective on how much things have changed. But I'm in the "let's not pat ourselves on the back too much" camp. Yes, things are better, but we still live in a society where racism is still firmly in place -- in housing, schooling, employment, health care, etc... and sometimes it seems like a two steps forward, two steps back situation (like the fact that schools are as segregated now as they were in the 1960's; that the mother/baby birthing outcome rates for college-educated black women with regular prenatal care, no prior problems in health history are worse than all mothers of other races, including those with little prenatal care, no health insurance and low educational attainment, etc...). Yeah, I'd say we've got some more work to do.

[nd293]

I find it pretty ridiculous that someone wouldn't mention my race/skin color as a descriptor if someone needed it to correctly identify me.

I grew up in an entirely segregated environment. The first time I had regular contact with non-whites outside of an employee/service relationship was when I was 19 and started working. As much as is possible in this context, I didn't grow up being force fed racist values, but still, race (or culture) is one of the ways I was conditioned to organise the world, much as one might use religion or education levels or socio-economic factors to frame the world. It is hard to overcome that instinct, even without there being any negative bias. I am so glad my children are growing up in a more 'colour blind' world.

 

It was difficult for me to come to a 'natural' relationship with issues of race. Hyper vigilance makes for awkwardness, so my instincts when dd (aged 6, and living in a different country to the one I was raised in) described a new friend as 'the brown girl' was to feel very uncomfortable. I had to really work on recognising that she was growing up in an environment where race didn't have the same political undertones. And if that is true, if skin colour is just skin colour, then why should I be uncomfortable with her noticing differences? She is, after all 'the red-haired girl', and we don't object to that descriptor.

 

Ds is growing up in a third country. He really doesn't seem to have noticed race at all. He is friends with a girl who was adopted from China, and in 3 years he's never commented on her looking different from her mother. He's never asked why people are different colours.

 

I think racism has a much stronger socio-economic context than anything else. In the South Africa I grew up in, race overlapped with socio-economic differences, and it was easier to stamp people with a different skin colour as 'other'. For my children, raised outside of South Africa, the people they've met who have different skin colours are 'just like us' in every other way. I see racism receding in the face of a more globalised world, although changes will be measured in generations, rather than years, I think.

[fraidycat]

That's an interesting factor... City vs. small town. I hadn't thought of it that way. I live in a city. I sometimes wonder what kind of experience we will face when we move back to the states and it sounds like it depends on where we move to.

So now I wonder what affects the level of racist attitudes in an area the most...

City?

Suburb?

Small town?

Level of education in the area?

Income level of the area?

Religion of the area?

Etc.?

Philosophically speaking but also I am thinking practically...

If I'm looking to move somewhere with warm weather (I am), what is going to be my best bet if I want to live in a place where my multirace family will be most accepted and my children will not have to face a lot of racist attitudes?

Wait, I think I just derailed my own thread... :)

I hope that racism is becoming less of an issue more each day.

 

I can answer your warm and accepted question, though.

 

San Diego. :) We actually had this discussion within the past few weeks re: what racism is. DS (8) asked what the word meant, so we discussed. I had to eventually point out that our family was only one of three caucasian families in our core homeschool group. So pretty much all of my kids' friends are of all different and mixed races. It would not occur to my kids to judge someone negatively just by looking at their skin.