Parenting failure?

[maize]

My husband told me tonight we are failures as parents because dd11 challenged him with "why?" when he told her repeatedly to come inside this evening. She did eventually come in, but he thinks it is a mark of failure on our part that she is displaying rebellious attitude. I told him it is the mark of an 11 year old girl and we're going to have to hold onto our hats for the next few years  :hat:  :lol:  :tongue_smilie:

 

So back me up here--are all your 11 year old girls meek and mild mannered obedient darlings?

[Jean in Newcastle]

:smilielol5: 

 

Once your kids become tween and teens they should be told why about things.  They might not agree with your reasoning but they should know that you are not asking them to do things for no reason at all.  (You might need to explain to them that not agreeing with you does not mean that your reasoning is flawed.  You do have years of experience on them, after all.)

[OneStepAtATime]

It depends on the day.... :)

 

I do find that DD doesn't take to double standards or "because I told you to" if the instruction doesn't make logical sense to her.  She isn't openly defiant or rude in any way (90% of the time) but she does ask "why" upon occasion.  I think this is normal for that age, depending on the personality of the child.  And no, you have not failed as parents.  Honestly, it is just like when kids hit the "terrible twos", they have to go through developmental stages that sometimes include questioning their parents.  Hopefully, even when questioning parental choices they stay respectful.  But sometimes they may not.  

 

I have so many friends with kids that age that are really struggling with extreme defiance and rudeness so I am grateful we just get the occasional "why".  :)

[Annie G]

Mine were fairly obedient but did challenge us from time to time. 

 

But I want to tell about an incident that caused dh and I to pause...

Years ago we had many friends who were very much into first time obedience. I'm ok with the concept, and have seen it implemented really well. But this mother was way too strict. It was winter and her then 11 year old was sledding down a hill in our back yard as the mom and I were outside talking as the family was getting ready to leave. It was a tiny hill constructed from the snow pile our plow guy had made from snow from our driveway- maybe ten feet tall and 15 feet long.   So we stand out there and chat for like half an hour while the kids play, and when the mom is ready she calls to her dd that it's time to leave. The girl was ON the sled on top of the hill and she got off her sled and walked down instead of sledding down. Sledding probably would have been faster, but it was clear the mom wanted her to stop and come to the car instantly.

I later talked to the mom about that because it surprised me. She told me in no uncertain terms that if dd had taken that sled ride she would have been in trouble.

 

All of that woman's children are grown now and they all live thousands of miles from their parents. Maybe its a coincidence...but maybe it's not.

 

All that to say that there's a fine line between being too strict and letting a kid run wild.  Finding that line can be difficult!  

[PentecostalMom]

I don't think you're a parenting failure.  I think he should have told her "why" after the first request and if she did not obey, there should have been consequences.  Yes, you can give them a why sometimes, but she should also be obedient after that even if she does not agree.  Like Annie G said, "...there's a fine line between being too strict and letting a kid run wild.  Finding that line can be difficult."

 

I also want to add that some of this depends on the way she said why.  Only you would know whether it was truly a "why" requesting an answer, or a "why" of "I'm not doing what you said".  There is a difference.

[SKL]

I'm glad you mentioned that she is 11.  I went completely insane at age 11.  My parents didn't kill me, and for that I am thankful.  :)

[OneStepAtATime]

I'm glad you mentioned that she is 11.  I went completely insane at age 11.  My parents didn't kill me, and for that I am thankful.  :)

:lol:

[Slache]

I know several that age who's parents are singing the same tune. I know we all have different parenting styles but I completely disagree with the whole "they deserve to know why" concept. For me it's more "If you want to have a conversation about something I've said we can, but when I tell you to do something you do it".

[ErinE]

Um, no. I don't have a DD, but DS11 works daily on his arguing skills. He has always been (and continues to be) a very kind young man, but good night, asking him to brush his teeth can swiftly spin into an involved debate.

 

I can confirm we are in the logic stage of his life.

 

Eta: I do have a dd, just not that age yet.

[maize]

I think dh is in shock because this particular child has always been fairly compliant, and she's our oldest...

 

I'm sympathetic, I remember being 11 ;)

 

We'll have some discussions this week about appropriate ways and times to question and express opinions.

[Katy]

11 equals insane and rebellious, especially in a girl.  Remember how awful the girls in sixth and seventh grades were?

 

However I'd still consequence her because delayed obedience isn't obedience.  Obey first.  Question later.

 

We're "crazy ridiculously strict" though.  Or so I hear.  :glare:

[KrissiK]

I used to teach jr. High and that general age can take normally well mannerd, responsible children and turn them into monsters.

Distraught parents at a parent/teacher conference: but Susie always got her work done in elementary school. She got straight A's. It must be your fault she's failing science.

Me: no, she's not turning her work in.

Parents: you must have lost her work.

Me: why don't you check her backpack?

Susie comes in... Parents check her backpack... Pull out a wad of not-turned-in homework from various classes.

 

I saw it all the time. Some kids sail through that age, some really have a hard time.

[KungFuPanda]

Your DH needs to educate himself about daughters and hormones. If your daughter is just beginning puberty, and he is going to take these normal challenges personally, he's going to make the trip rougher than it has to be. A friend calls it "going into the tunnel" because MANY teen girls are just 'different' for about two years before the seem to stabilize again. The phase is eerily reminiscent of toddlerhood and you can't take the teen version of a tantrum any more to heart or you all get sucked into the drama and it escalates. Yes, set boundaries and be consistent, but be prepared to adjust rules to the next age bracket when possible. Be prepared to practice more adult conversations and understand that 'Why?' often deserves a more intelligent response than 'because I said so.' (You CAN answer a question without inviting a debate.) It's IMPORTANT to gradually teach her to have adult conversations and to question those who have authority over her. It's best that you and DH teach her these life skills. I know 11 seems impossibly young, but it goes so fast and your relationship with your daughter needs to grow and change as she does when SHE'S ready, because you will never be completely ready.

[Garga]

It depends on how it was said. Was she using the word to be defiant and aggressive? Or was she just disappointed and asking a valid question?

[gardenmom5]

your dh concerns me that he wants his daughter to be blindly obedient.  a simple - because it's time to come in - is all this is required as an answer.  there are times to obey without question - when the situation is dangerous and time is crucial.  those times are rare. 

 

I would have hated for my kids to have been blindly obedient.  I want them to use their heads - not be at the mercy of other adults because they were trained to be blindly obedient to their elders, or worse - a demanding boyfriend who treats them with disrespect but they are taught to be "obedient".

[albeto.]

My husband told me tonight we are failures as parents because dd11 challenged him with "why?" when he told her repeatedly to come inside this evening. She did eventually come in, but he thinks it is a mark of failure on our part that she is displaying rebellious attitude. I told him it is the mark of an 11 year old girl and we're going to have to hold onto our hats for the next few years  :hat:  :lol:  :tongue_smilie:

 

So back me up here--are all your 11 year old girls meek and mild mannered obedient darlings?

 

Oh dear. I think it's a mark of embarrassment. He didn't have a good reason for her question.

 

:closedeyes:

[regentrude]

Asking for a reason when given an order is not rebellious - it shows thinking. A parent who gives an order should be able to give an answer to the question "why".

I do not have blindly obedient children. I would not consider it a parenting success if I had.

[TXBeth]

DD8 know she is always allowed to ask why, but her obedience may not be contingent on the answer. So if called to come in, she should say "yes, sir" or "coming, Daddy" or "okay" and start coming in. If she wants to ask "why do I have to come in so early today?" She is allowed to do that while on her way or after coming inside. If she is staying outside saying "why?" and waiting for an answer before obeying, that is not acceptable. She is then taking the authority on herself to decide whether or not the reason is good enough.

So I do think your daughter was wrong, but I don't think it means you are failures as parents! Lol that sounds like something my DH would say. He expects perfection, and when we don't get it (obviously, since our kids are human), he thinks we have failed miserably and our kids are doomed to be horrible people forever.

[HS Mom in NC]

I think you should explain to her that she should have come in when you called the first time and once she got in (obeyed) THEN it would've been perfectly reasonable for her to ask why.  This has her obeying and still allows her to get an explanation for a reasonable question without it being interpreted as rebellion. She may have wondered if she was being called for a specific task or to go somewhere. Maybe she wondered if you were calling her in to do a chore or something. I assume she just wanted to be "in the loop" about what was going on.

 

Also, based on your extremely short post and not knowing your husband at all, it reads as though your husband is an all or nothing kind of person.  Even if the child was rebelling (which I don't think is the case) is your husband really considering it a parenting failure?  That seems like an extreme response to a very minor situation.  I would worry much more about that than the issue of delayed obedience in the child if that's the case.

[Katy]

You might want to explain to your DH that the next few years your daughter might seem a lot like you in your worse case of hormone-induced craziness...  ...times ten!  Has he experienced PMS or pregnancy-induced emotional crisis?  DD is having all sorts of fluctuations of all sorts of new hormones.  If he would tiptoe around you or even just give you extra grace *at all,* he should probably resign himself to the same sorts of allowances for her.

 

Not that bad behavior should be tolerated just due to hormones.  It should be consequenced like anything else.

 

To defend myself to those that think obedience first, question later is a moral problem...  Coming in when she was asked wasn't a moral question.  It was an obedience question.  She just didn't want to.  I don't mind questions. I don't mind disobedience if it's a moral objection.  I think most kids are perfectly capable of knowing the distinction and this wasn't it.  I wouldn't mind the question after coming in.  I wouldn't even mind a kid negotiating a later curfew or bedtime. I *teach* them to disobey if it's a moral issue. This wasn't it and at 11 she's perfectly capable of seeing the distinction (assuming she's neuro-typical).

[bettyandbob]

while I wish my dc had been more compliant over the years, I would not ever want blindly obedient dc. 

 

1. I was blindly obedient with my father most of my childhood. Blind obedience was achieved through physical punishment and the fear resulting from physical punishment. I do not want my dc afraid of me and afraid of all male parents as I was. 

 

2. Blind obedience can put the dc in situations that are dangerous because they will not question the authority of others. 

[marbel]

I don't see anything wrong with a kid asking "why" when told it's time to come in.

 

We taught first-time obedience when our kids were little, for emergencies.  If outside, "come in now!" needed to be obeyed.   We taught them that there might be something going on that they weren't aware of, so they had to obey and ask for explanations later.

 

By age 11, it seems like most kids can tell if there's an emergency going on.  If my kids were out playing and I said "hey kids, come in" in a regular tone of voice, I would probably expect them to ask why.  If I shouted it and my tone indicated emergency, they would come in right away.  When my washing machine overflowed and flooded my laundry room, my kids knew by my urgent tone that they needed to respond right away.

 

I wouldn't consider this a parenting failure. But it could turn into one if your husband doesn't see that as kids mature they need to be able to ask why unless it is an emergency. 

 

As for the sledding a pp mentioned, wow.  It sounds almost as if the mom set the girl up.  Why not wait till the girl got to the bottom to call her?  That sounds like a power play, as in "I'm going to remind you who's boss." 

[Guest submarines]

:smilielol5:

 

Once your kids become tween and teens they should be told why about things.  They might not agree with your reasoning but they should know that you are not asking them to do things for no reason at all.  (You might need to explain to them that not agreeing with you does not mean that your reasoning is flawed.  You do have years of experience on them, after all.)

 

:iagree: and if you start telling them your reasons way before they are tween they adjust to the idea of there being reasons even better. So much less to "rebel" against if they are used to being given reasons. :cool:

 

[AMJ]

My husband told me tonight we are failures as parents because dd11 challenged him with "why?" when he told her repeatedly to come inside this evening. She did eventually come in, but he thinks it is a mark of failure on our part that she is displaying rebellious attitude. I told him it is the mark of an 11 year old girl and we're going to have to hold onto our hats for the next few years :hat: :lol: :tongue_smilie:

 

So back me up here--are all your 11 year old girls meek and mild mannered obedient darlings?

Nope! DD-almost-13 has never been meek, though as puberty hit we got a lot more push back and resistance. (Still dealing with that, and the drama! My friend refers to teen drama as drama trauma.)

 

Moodiness does cycle monthly, and with me peri-menupausal we are not always in sync. This has its advantages in that we aren't both crabby at the same time, but I don't always realize it's coming up on that time of the month right away. And the cramps -- poor DD has cramps already, which I never had until well into my 20's.

 

Forwarn your DH -- assuming your DD11 hasn't started her periods yet she may do so soon. With our DD the attitude definitely preceeded the onset of menses.

 

I am on watch now regarding DD-newly-10. I'm praying she isn't going to start soon, despite her developing a bit more attitude herself this past year. HER attitude may be in response to her sister's.

[poppy]

Wait there are kids who don't as "why?" when told to do things?

 

 

(Kidding. We're working on it...........)

[Amy in NH]

I agree with others that it would be appropriate and even necessary to give dd an answer why.  Puberty is a time when the brain completely rearranges itself, and also a time when logical reasoning skills develop.  Discussions of "why", even though they seem like arguing, help adolescents understand how decisions are made and improve their reasoning and judgment.  Of course dd should have come to dh to have the discussion instead of seeming rebellious and making dh tell her multiple times, but the time for blind obedience is over.

[maize]

Really I'm more worried about getting dh through the kids' teen years than I am about the kids themselves. His reaction last night was just an expression of his overall tendency towards anxiety and catastrophizing. On the plus side, he didn't overreact in front of the kids but rather pulled me aside to talk about it privately  :hurray: he's working hard on the "stay calm while parenting" deal. 

 

Mental and emotional health don't come easily to dh, but he has an incredibly good heart and a willingness to do what is necessary to keep himself functioning as an individual and as a husband and father, whether that is medication, counseling, or parenting classes. I have a feeling things are going to get rockier ahead though as the kids deal with the hormonal chaos of puberty. If anyone has good books to recommend that explain what happens inside a kid's brain as they hit this stage, and the emotional and psychological impacts, it might be helpful. He needs real information to combat the "the world is falling apart and we are terrible parents and our kids are going to end up in jail" catastrophic thinking that is likely to rear its head far to often. 

[catz]

LOL - not at all.  Sign of a kid reaching logic stage.  If your child has been good at following directions to this point without asking questions or needing to understand reasons for them, lucky you! 

[MFG]

The real parenting failure would have been raising a child that never asked "why". And I find it upsetting that normal sign of maturation are labeled as "rebellion". As my children matured, they went through times of being difficult and moody, but I never thought of it as rebellious. How negatively to view the situation was my choice. I did not expect pre-teens and teens to "rebel" so mine didn't. My view was to strive to always view them as separate individuals deserving of as much respect as I was. How that looked varied by age, but the principle never did. And the oldest is always the hardest because that was the first time through it and both parent and child had a lot to learn. Fortunately we all made it without too many scars and I have a good relationship with my adult children today.

[Amy in NH]

Here is an interesting article...  Adolescent Brains are Works in Progress

[flyingiguana]

I was trying to figure out what I'd done in a similar situation - and realized I'd never really encountered it.

 

Here's why:  I never would have said only "time to come in".  I would have said, "you need to come in now, because..." and given the reason.

 

So they couldn't have asked why.

 

They might have refused, or argued, but I'd already told them why.  (Course, we might have got to another why in the course of that argument....)

 

Were my kids ever snarky?  Or, sure.  But I don't really remember them asking why.

 

Or maybe they knew I would have explained the pants off them.  Or said something snarky in return (like, "you mean you can't figure it out?")

 

I think they learned early on that if they were going to be unpleasant, it was only going to make me unpleasant.

 

I'd say that was a good approach, but it never worked for my husband.  That just got into a positive feedback loop and they'd all be screaming at each other.  So I don't know what was different about the way I did it.

[KungFuPanda]

Really I'm more worried about getting dh through the kids' teen years than I am about the kids themselves. His reaction last night was just an expression of his overall tendency towards anxiety and catastrophizing. On the plus side, he didn't overreact in front of the kids but rather pulled me aside to talk about it privately  :hurray: he's working hard on the "stay calm while parenting" deal. 

 

Mental and emotional health don't come easily to dh, but he has an incredibly good heart and a willingness to do what is necessary to keep himself functioning as an individual and as a husband and father, whether that is medication, counseling, or parenting classes. I have a feeling things are going to get rockier ahead though as the kids deal with the hormonal chaos of puberty. If anyone has good books to recommend that explain what happens inside a kid's brain as they hit this stage, and the emotional and psychological impacts, it might be helpful. He needs real information to combat the "the world is falling apart and we are terrible parents and our kids are going to end up in jail" catastrophic thinking that is likely to rear its head far to often.

 

The fact that your DH actually puts thought into the parenting process and works on it makes him an above average parent.

 

In some ways, he is setting the example for how your daughter might react to all men or authority figures in her life. I'm willing to bet that he doesn't really want the adult version of your daughter to 'obey first and ask questions later.' Asking for a reason and arguing about that reason because you don't like it are two entirely different things and shouldn't be treated as the same.

[Ellie]

My husband told me tonight we are failures as parents because dd11 challenged him with "why?" when he told her repeatedly to come inside this evening. She did eventually come in, but he thinks it is a mark of failure on our part that she is displaying rebellious attitude. I told him it is the mark of an 11 year old girl and we're going to have to hold onto our hats for the next few years  :hat:  :lol:  :tongue_smilie:

 

So back me up here--are all your 11 year old girls meek and mild mannered obedient darlings?

 

What I want to know is why he told her "repeatedly" to come inside. When he told her the first time to come in and she did not, why did he not go out and escort her in?

 

That she is showing a "rebellious attitude" is not necessarily a sign that you are failures as parents; that he did not require to obey the first time isn't necessarily a sign that you are failures but that there are definitely some parent issues that need to be taken care of.

 

That she is 11 is irrelevant. Disobedience is disobedience regardless of age. Children of all ages up to and including 11 disobey their parents.

[Denise in Florida]

Mine were fairly obedient but did challenge us from time to time. 

 

But I want to tell about an incident that caused dh and I to pause...

Years ago we had many friends who were very much into first time obedience. I'm ok with the concept, and have seen it implemented really well. But this mother was way too strict. It was winter and her then 11 year old was sledding down a hill in our back yard as the mom and I were outside talking as the family was getting ready to leave. It was a tiny hill constructed from the snow pile our plow guy had made from snow from our driveway- maybe ten feet tall and 15 feet long.   So we stand out there and chat for like half an hour while the kids play, and when the mom is ready she calls to her dd that it's time to leave. The girl was ON the sled on top of the hill and she got off her sled and walked down instead of sledding down. Sledding probably would have been faster, but it was clear the mom wanted her to stop and come to the car instantly.

I later talked to the mom about that because it surprised me. She told me in no uncertain terms that if dd had taken that sled ride she would have been in trouble.

 

All of that woman's children are grown now and they all live thousands of miles from their parents. Maybe its a coincidence...but maybe it's not.

 

All that to say that there's a fine line between being too strict and letting a kid run wild.  Finding that line can be difficult!  

 

Just saying...I highly doubt it is a coincidence. If that example is at all representative of the child's life, and I get that I don't know that for certain, I would run run run and never look back. 

[LucyStoner]

I know several that age who's parents are singing the same tune. I know we all have different parenting styles but I completely disagree with the whole "they deserve to know why" concept. For me it's more "If you want to have a conversation about something I've said we can, but when I tell you to do something you do it".

Do you happen to have any tweens of your own? I thought your kids are little?

[SKL]

That she is 11 is irrelevant. Disobedience is disobedience regardless of age. Children of all ages up to and including 11 disobey their parents.

 

I disagree.  The fact that this issue is arising at age 11 suggests that she's been a generally obedient, respectful child up to then.  This suggests to me that either she was born especially good-natured, or her parents have done a great job.

 

I remember being 11 and my brain clearly changed at that age.  I saw the same thing in my kid sister.  Most others here are saying the same.  It is biological IMO.

 

There's light at the end of the tunnel, though.  :)

[Laura Corin]

It sounds like a parenting success.  Your child is confident enough to question authority and wish to know the reason for the rules that shape her life.  That's exactly what she should be doing at this age in order to prepare for independence.  You have a brilliant opportunity to help her to learn how to question without rudeness.  Well done!

 

L

[Denise in Florida]

I know several that age who's parents are singing the same tune. I know we all have different parenting styles but I completely disagree with the whole "they deserve to know why" concept. For me it's more "If you want to have a conversation about something I've said we can, but when I tell you to do something you do it".

 

How would that work exactly?  Just curious mostly.

 

I see your children are still little, assumption based on avatar and siggy, so for a certain extent that would work for them. "Come here now" "Drop that now" I can see those commands as an issue of safety with explanations later.

 

How do you see that for slightly older children and teens?   When do they get to ask 'why'?  Do you plan to review it later? They will not be likely to bring it up to you again after receiving their orders, but they will remember and they will wonder. The answer they will give themselves is unlikely to be the one you want them to learn. 

[TechWife]

DD8 know she is always allowed to ask why, but her obedience may not be contingent on the answer. So if called to come in, she should say "yes, sir" or "coming, Daddy" or "okay" and start coming in. If she wants to ask "why do I have to come in so early today?" She is allowed to do that while on her way or after coming inside. If she is staying outside saying "why?" and waiting for an answer before obeying, that is not acceptable. She is then taking the authority on herself to decide whether or not the reason is good enough.

There is a big, and I mean big, difference between 8 and 11 years of age. Why? Because it's nearly 1/4 of the child's lifetime! At 11, it isn't that she's "taking the authority on herself to decide whether or not the reason is good enough." At 11, she's beginning to learn the responsibility of having authority over herself and how that authority works within the context of a variety of cultural situations (family, peers, adult family friends, strangers, and eventually work and marriage). These milestones can be difficult on us as parents, but I believe that we must be wise enough to celebrate them, for they are right and normal.

[Denise in Florida]

There is a big, and I mean big, difference between 8 and 11 years of age. Why? Because it's nearly 1/4 of the child's lifetime! At 11, it isn't that she's "taking the authority on herself to decide whether or not the reason is good enough." At 11, she's beginning to learn the responsibility of having authority over herself and how that authority works within the context of a variety of cultural situations (family, peers, adult family friends, strangers, and eventually work and marriage). These milestones can be difficult on us as parents, but I believe that we must be wise enough to celebrate them, for they are right and normal.

 

Already like this but needed to like again.  :iagree:

[KungFuPanda]

You could also ask your husband if he's raising his daughter to be an independent adult, or a model cult member. The only teens I know who never ask their parents "Why?" have been conditioned to fear the consequence of that question. They ALL want to know 'why?.' Some are just too afraid to ask.

[Ellie]

I disagree.  The fact that this issue is arising at age 11 suggests that she's been a generally obedient, respectful child up to then.  This suggests to me that either she was born especially good-natured, or her parents have done a great job.

 

I remember being 11 and my brain clearly changed at that age.  I saw the same thing in my kid sister.  Most others here are saying the same.  It is biological IMO.

 

There's light at the end of the tunnel, though.  :)

 

There could be more than one reason for her to have reacted this way other than being 11. I cannot fathom the concept of her being disobedient as a good thing. What I do see is the parent "repeatedly" telling her to come in. I don't believe that children should obey like dogs, but "repeatedly" telling a child to do something is not good parenting.

 

That others are blaming her behavior on age is irrelevant to me. When we give children a pass on good behavior because of their age, we are doing them a disservice, IMHO.

[albeto.]

. I cannot fathom the concept of her being disobedient as a good thing. 

 

Standing up to tyranny is always a good thing. Being commanded to obey simply because the commander has the power to make life miserable for noncompliance is tyranny. Well, maybe microscopically, but still a good thing to identify. Baby steps.  ;)

[Ellie]

Standing up to tyranny is always a good thing. Being commanded to obey simply because the commander has the power to make life miserable for noncompliance is tyranny. Well, maybe microscopically, but still a good thing to identify. Baby steps.   ;)

 

A father wanting his child to come in is not tyranny, for crying out loud.

[Laura Corin]

There could be more than one reason for her to have reacted this way other than being 11. I cannot fathom the concept of her being disobedient as a good thing. What I do see is the parent "repeatedly" telling her to come in. I don't believe that children should obey like dogs, but "repeatedly" telling a child to do something is not good parenting.

 

That others are blaming her behavior on age is irrelevant to me. When we give children a pass on good behavior because of their age, we are doing them a disservice, IMHO.

 

For me, the key is that this is the first time.  The parents are suddenly faced with a different child than the one they had yesterday.  Now is the time to institute new rules to recognise the growing person.  It sounds as if she has been trained to obey no matter what, and so she has not developed adult negotiating skills

 

Perhaps the child can say, 'Is it important I come now rather than when I've finished my game?'  or 'Would it be possible for me to come in a minute when the bird I am listening to stops singing?"  That gives the parent the chance to say, 'Yes - that's fine, just don't forget because we need to go out in half an hour and you need to find your shoes,' or 'No, I'm sorry, not this time - we have an appointment we have to keep.'  It's the beginning of a conversation that will take the child to independence and the parental  relationship into the next few decades.

 

L

[albeto.]

A father wanting his child to come in is not tyranny, for crying out loud.

 

I agree. A father wanting his child to come in is not tyranny. Unjustified punishment for a lack of immediate, unconditional obedience, however, is. 

 

Granted, we don't know the father was going to punish her, or if so how much. A question is a great way to learn. Waiting for an answer before following orders is commendable. 

 

Unconditional obedience to authority isn't a virtue, it's submission to tyranny. Benevolent tyranny notwithstanding. Learning to decipher what is appropriate obedience and what is appropriate resistance is a hallmark of critical, independent thought. 

 

Critical, independent thinking skills is one reason I can fathom disobedience as a good thing. 

 

That it's uncomfortable for the father is another issue, and I think the real issue ultimately. 

[Denise in Florida]

You could also ask your husband if he's raising his daughter to be an independent adult, or a model cult member. The only teens I know who never ask their parents "Why?" have been conditioned to fear the consequence of that question. They ALL want to know 'why?.' Some are just too afraid to ask.

 

Then they come up with their own answers, which are almost never the lesson you want them to learn. 

[SKL]

There could be more than one reason for her to have reacted this way other than being 11. I cannot fathom the concept of her being disobedient as a good thing. What I do see is the parent "repeatedly" telling her to come in. I don't believe that children should obey like dogs, but "repeatedly" telling a child to do something is not good parenting.

 

If they have always been asking her multiple times before she obeys, then that is a parenting problem.  However, I doubt that is the case, because if it were, the discussion referenced in the OP would probably have gone a lot differently.  To me it seems clear that this is a recent development due to the child's changing behavior / needs.

 

I don't think anyone is saying disobedience is good, exactly.  It's more that questioning is developmentally appropriate, as is difficulty reining in emotions (like the indignance of being interrupted for no apparent reason).  She needs a different kind of parenting now, the kind that acknowledges that she's closer to an adult than a child, and has a responsibility to moderate her reactions while helping arrive at a mutually beneficial result.

 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

It was a normal progression to questioning commands in our house. My boys now ask if they can finish a game, have 10 more minutes, and why. As long as they ask politely, it's good.

 

I want my children to question authority appropriately. So they learn to be polite and respectful, and sometimes questioning needs to be after compliance not before as in the case of safety issues. They've also learned not to obey commands that are unsafe, illegal, or ethically questionable.

 

By eleven I'd be concerned by blind obedience. Sure it makes my daily life easier if my kids don't always question me, but what kind of adult will they be. They need to question or nothing changes. Scary thought.

[sassenach]

Really I'm more worried about getting dh through the kids' teen years than I am about the kids themselves. His reaction last night was just an expression of his overall tendency towards anxiety and catastrophizing. On the plus side, he didn't overreact in front of the kids but rather pulled me aside to talk about it privately :hurray: he's working hard on the "stay calm while parenting" deal.

 

Mental and emotional health don't come easily to dh, but he has an incredibly good heart and a willingness to do what is necessary to keep himself functioning as an individual and as a husband and father, whether that is medication, counseling, or parenting classes. I have a feeling things are going to get rockier ahead though as the kids deal with the hormonal chaos of puberty. If anyone has good books to recommend that explain what happens inside a kid's brain as they hit this stage, and the emotional and psychological impacts, it might be helpful. He needs real information to combat the "the world is falling apart and we are terrible parents and our kids are going to end up in jail" catastrophic thinking that is likely to rear its head far to often.

(((Hugs)))) to you and your dh. My very compliant dd turned into a monster from 11-13. She was a mess. And even though I am an engaged, easy going, not prone to catastrophic thinking parent, I think I was in tears nearly every day. I really wondered if she would ever be likable again. I definitely had moments of feeling like a failure.

 

This age is hard, even for the heartiest of us. Dd did level off around 13 1/2. It was totally hormonal, because she is still that person 1 day a month. At least now I can give her a Tylenol, send her to bed, and get my enjoyable dd back in the morning.

 

Best wishes to you.