Homeschool dad pays his property tax (school portion) in cash to make a point

[happycc]

What are your thoughts about this? I just saw this morning. 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/hero-jerk-home-school-dad-pays-7-143-132008733.html

 

He has a point but I am not sure if his attitude is the right way though. 

 

He is definitely bold. 

[Mouseketeer67]

And, IMO, he isn't doing anything to help homeschoolers.  I will be shocked if people don't see this story and think "us vs. them" and all sorts of steroetypical/wrong/bad things about us.

 

 I agree and also believe that the "us versus them" mentality will lead to unwanted government oversite of homeschoolers.

[Arcadia]

Buying a home in an area that requires a homeowner to pay high school tax is his choice. Paying $7k in dollar bills just to give the counter staff a hard time is just plan annoying. My sympathies are with the counter staff.  Since he is not happy he should do something constructive about it, not give someone who is just doing their job a hard time.

[warneral]

I disagree completely!  Senior citizens who cannot afford their property taxes also have to pay.  People who never had children have to pay property taxes.  It's part of contributing to society.  Schools educate children.  What would our society be like without it?

 

I also feel for the poor lady at the counter. 

[gingersmom]

I think he's an idiot looking for his quick 15 minutes of fame. 

 

 

[Luckymama]

Oh please :rolleyes:

[warneral]

in addition, I personally don't want the state (or federal) government giving me vouchers because then they would probably decide things that would limit the freedom we currently have in homeschooling.

[quark]

Ugh. I read the article. Refuse to watch the video to avoid giving him one more hit.

[nmoira]

I think he made his point, just not the one he thought.

[Kakids]

Does he feel the same way about taxes for police, fire, or libraries?  Perhaps they should all be fee for service as well?  Not everyone uses every service in a society. If he doesn't believe in public education for society there are other ways to make his point that might be more constructive.

[Chelli]

My dh and I were talking about this yesterday. We both agreed that it was idiotic. I also brought out the point that the elderly and childless couples have to pay their property taxes as well without having a dog in the fight.

 

If he wanted to protest the fact that he pays property taxes, but his children are not allowed to avail themselves of any of the public school services, he might have a better case.

[kitten18]

Stupid.

[RoundAbout]

Jerk.

 

We all benefit from having a robust educational system. We all pay for things we don't use or don't agree with when it comes to taxes. It's part of living in a democratic society. I also agree that if he wanted cheaper property taxes are plenty of places he could move.

[aggieamy]

I have never used the fire department.  I am delighted and happy to pay for it in my taxes.  My neighbor has used it and I was sure glad they were available.  Maybe I'll use the local high school, who knows what five years will bring.  My neighbor has never used the high school because he's a single older man.  I'm glad he's helped pay for it though. 

[Jackie]

I am happy to pay to support public schools as I certainly prefer to live in a society where every child has the right to a free education. I was happy to pay those taxes when I planned to not have children and I am happy to pay them now that I homeschool. This guy is just being a jerk.

[dhudson]

I think it is entirely appropriate to pay into public education. I would love a portion of it back but not all of it as I never wnt to be in a country that doesn't have public education. Every child deserves an education and I am willing to help with that.

 

Our county pays 8,000 per child to be educated and I would love even a fourth of that per child to put back into our homeschool, though.

[AdventureMoms]

Dear heavens that's just annoying. I do think school taxes are too high in my district and are not being wisely spent, but that has nothing to do with homeschooling or whether I intend to use public schools. School taxes are not a fee for a service, they are a tax to fund a public institution. The choice to not use that institution doesn't get you put of the tax!

[azdad]

His idiocy is giving us homeschool dads a bad name! Boo...

[regentrude]

Idiotic. Plenty of people do not use the school system - seniors, childless couples, people with grown children...

Even though public schools are not perfect, it is in the entire community's best interest to have well funded schools and to give each child of the community access to an education.

 

Btw, the value of this man's house depends very much on the quality of the school district.

 

[WishboneDawn]

I have a feeling this guy would be insufferable. The kind of person who's always right and very loud about it.

 

Jerk. Idiot. I think most of the bases have been covered.

[MBM]

He should watch and study this series with his kids.

 

http://www.justiceharvard.org

http://www.justiceharvard.org/resources/

[Kerileanne99]

Ridiculous.

 

And as part of living in a society, we all invest and pay for things we may never use! It is part of being a citizen.

 

I am a US Army veteran, considered 100% disabled. In our state, this provides for a complete tax exemption. I do not have children in public school, most likely never will.

After a conversation with our local tax office when she happened to mention that one side effect of all the veterans returning and granted this wonderful benefit (that some veterans really need and deserve) is that schools are really suffering for it.

We actually CHOOSE to pay our school tax because we can and believe that education benefits the entire society.

[kbutton]

I read the article but didn't watch the video because others made a great point about not contributing hits to it.

 

"Anne Bennett-Morse, the local tax collector who was on duty to accept the multitude of greenbacks, told Fernandes that the school board, not the local municipality of Forks Township, sets the budget for the schools."

 

I agree that his actions were basically a publicity stunt and don't do us any favors, but there could be more to the story.

 

I don't know what it's like in his part of PA, but I have family elsewhere in PA, and the school board not only sets the budget, they determine what is charged in taxes. Where my family members live, you don't get to vote on school taxes. My grandmother has lived her entire life below the poverty level, but she owns her house outright after decades of minimum wage work as a single mom. A couple of years ago, she was in tears because her property taxes went up so much that she wasn't sure she could pay them. She has a very small, very old house on a very small plot. She actually took her property deed to the county and told them they might as well have it. I think the county ultimately adjusted property values because she was not the only one raising heck. The average income in the area is low. In that area, teachers have some of the best paying jobs around, especially when you compare benefits (yes, you read that right). Property taxes are up basically because the schools have runaway spending that isn't voted on, and people moving into town from out of the area find the housing there a "bargain" and will pay more for a house than locals can afford. This is a rural area BTW. Can this be changed? Maybe, but it's very difficult, even in a small town, to "fight city hall" sometimes.

[Sobeknofret]

What a jerk. He's acting like a spoiled child by doing this. Everybody benefits with an educated populace, and although some of us have opted out of the system, we're still going to benefit later on down the road.

[elegantlion]

what a nitwit.

[zoobie]

I read the article but didn't watch the video because others made a great point about not contributing hits to it.

 

"Anne Bennett-Morse, the local tax collector who was on duty to accept the multitude of greenbacks, told Fernandes that the school board, not the local municipality of Forks Township, sets the budget for the schools."

 

I agree that his actions were basically a publicity stunt and don't do us any favors, but there could be more to the story.

 

I don't know what it's like in his part of PA, but I have family elsewhere in PA, and the school board not only sets the budget, they determine what is charged in taxes. Where my family members live, you don't get to vote on school taxes. My grandmother has lived her entire life below the poverty level, but she owns her house outright after decades of minimum wage work as a single mom. A couple of years ago, she was in tears because her property taxes went up so much that she wasn't sure she could pay them. She has a very small, very old house on a very small plot. She actually took her property deed to the county and told them they might as well have it. I think the county ultimately adjusted property values because she was not the only one raising heck. The average income in the area is low. In that area, teachers have some of the best paying jobs around, especially when you compare benefits (yes, you read that right). Property taxes are up basically because the schools have runaway spending that isn't voted on, and people moving into town from out of the area find the housing there a "bargain" and will pay more for a house than locals can afford. This is a rural area BTW. Can this be changed? Maybe, but it's very difficult, even in a small town, to "fight city hall" sometimes.

Is their school board elected? Ours is, as well as our tax commissioner and county commissioners. Of course the governor stepped in and removed some school board members from a nearby district and appointed replacements, but it was an extreme situation and the (elected) judicial branch got involved as well.

 

Also, our state exempts people over a certain age from the school tax portion. I believe you have to file for the exemption, so many people may not even know it's possible.

[Carpe]

Ridiculous.

 

And as part of living in a society, we all invest and pay for things we may never use! It is part of being a citizen.

 

I am a US Army veteran, considered 100% disabled. In our state, this provides for a complete tax exemption. I do not have children in public school, most likely never will.

After a conversation with our local tax office when she happened to mention that one side effect of all the veterans returning and granted this wonderful benefit (that some veterans really need and deserve) is that schools are really suffering for it.

We actually CHOOSE to pay our school tax because we can and believe that education benefits the entire society.

 

The world needs more people like you :)

[kbutton]

Is their school board elected? Ours is, as well as our tax commissioner and county commissioners. Of course the governor stepped in and removed some school board members from a nearby district and appointed replacements, but it was an extreme situation and the (elected) judicial branch got involved as well.

 

They are, but it's not as simple as "elect different board members." People have to be willing to serve, inherit a bad situation, and engage in class warfare in order to take on all of this. Many people are busy just making it, and many are farmers or small business owners who literally live their jobs 24/7. Those who have time to serve are often people who are from out of the area and favor policies that erode the income base of those who've lived there for a long time. It's complicated, but the school taxes are a huge problem when you cannot vote on them separately the way you can some places. That system also has some cons, but at least there is a broader accountability in being able to vote on the board and the funding separately.

 

And, I don't bring this up to condone the man but to say that not every municipality has equivalent laws and procedures. Hearing this story from the POV of someone who can vote on school taxes changes things a bit.

[happyhome]

What a terrible example for his young daughter to see while she's standing right beside him.....when you don't like what your government is doing, take it out on some completely random person who has nothing to do with it? Really??? Did he think donuts were going to make his argument more logical? His total tax bill is about $7K. Only a portion of that goes to the school district. The rest is for services his family probably does need. I didn't call an ambulance to my house last year, yet $132 went to our local EMT dept. Do I deduct that? Or what about my neighbor who has been in Europe on a sabbatical for the last year, does she get to deduct for services she didn't use? His argument makes absolutely no sense and his daughter had to sit there and watch him try to work logic into a pretzel and harass that poor woman while he did it. There could have been such a good teaching lesson here about how to affect change in the great democracy we live in. Instead, he chose to act like a dope. What a shame!

[maize]

Taxes that support public schools were never meant to be viewed as tuition for individual children. Does this dad have a plan for educating every child in his district?That's what his taxes and the taxes of other property owners are for, it really is not about his particular children. If his point is that government should not take responsibility for the education of any children then he should address that issue in an appropriate venue.

[ajfries]

Jerk.  Just because your children don't physically attend public school doesn't negate the fact that our society as a whole benefits from the education it provides.

[happyhome]

No I think that was his school bill. Not that I don't agree with you otherwise.

 

He must live in a freaking mansion. Or in my city. LOL

I have family in Forks Twp. I think it was the total bill. It's a nice area but I don't think anyone is paying $7K+ just for schools. The housing prices don't support it, unless he lives in an area I don't know about, which is possible. Where I live yes, you can pay upwards of $13K, which is why we're probably moving.....a LOGICAL solution that is, thankfully, available to us.

[happypamama]

As a PA resident, I think it was rather a pointless move, because the SD is the one who sets the budget, and this doesn't really seem like the way to effect change. It galls me to no end the amount I pay in school taxes, which are separate from my county and township taxes (I don't mind those, because they pay for my roads, my police and fire services, my state parks, my libraries); we pay a lot in school taxes because of a tax restructuring a few years ago, and still, the SD chooses to take its 3% or whatever increase every year (it's allowed a certain amount of increase without putting it to a vote), and the teachers complain that they haven't had raises in several years. Guess what? Neither has my husband, who makes the money we pay in taxes.

 

PA has kind of the best and worst of both worlds. We have a lot of SD oversight, but they also have to provide us with books, as few or as many classes as we want, services such as speech therapy, sports, and activities. I have heard that the SD doesn't receive state or federal funds for hs'ed students in PA, but I don't understand how that could possibly be true, if they have to then provide services and such for us. I think it would be really nice if they gave us a portion of whatever funds they receive, as a gesture of goodwill, but no luck.

 

Unfortunately, it's just the way it is that we pay in for a system we don't use. We pay in for other people's health and auto claims too, even if we never use our own health insurance or auto insurance. C'est la vie!

[AdventureMoms]

 

They are, but it's not as simple as "elect different board members." People have to be willing to serve, inherit a bad situation, and engage in class warfare in order to take on all of this. Many people are busy just making it, and many are farmers or small business owners who literally live their jobs 24/7. Those who have time to serve are often people who are from out of the area and favor policies that erode the income base of those who've lived there for a long time. It's complicated, but the school taxes are a huge problem when you cannot vote on them separately the way you can some places. That system also has some cons, but at least there is a broader accountability in being able to vote on the board and the funding separately.

 

And, I don't bring this up to condone the man but to say that not every municipality has equivalent laws and procedures. Hearing this story from the POV of someone who can vote on school taxes changes things a bit.

 

It doesn't change the fact that none of this has anything to do with homeschooling. It sounds like he made a pretty serious effort to bring homeschooling into this. I can understand feeling that your school taxes are unfairly high. I feel that way about my own. But that has nothing to do with whether or not I use the service. You are obligated to pay your taxes even if you don't use all the services they provide. People who don't drive still have to pay the taxes to pay for the roads. If someone wishes to protest the fact that the taxes are too high? Depending on the situation, I think that could be valid. But protesting the existence of the school tax because you don't send your children to school does not make any sense to me.

[AdventureMoms]

For what it's worth, I live in a state with a reputation for high taxes, in the city with a reputation for high taxes. My school tax is about $1500 a year. My total Property tax bill is a little over $8000 a year. If he is really paying over $7000 a year in school taxes only on a reasonably normal home, then yes, I can understand why one the protest. Though I still do not understand what homeschooling has to do with anything. I would also guess that he is counting his entire property tax bill.

[AdventureMoms]

 

We must live in the same state....

 

New York. I didn't mean to make a mystery of it. :-)

[La Condessa]

And, I don't bring this up to condone the man but to say that not every municipality has equivalent laws and procedures. Hearing this story from the POV of someone who can vote on school taxes changes things a bit.

As an example of the opposite problem, in my rural Oregon town, a large portion of our population are elderly retirees. As a result, all school taxes are voted down, and the quality of education here is abysmal. They have had to fire teachers each of the past few years, and gone to such lengths as skipping all of the third graders with fall birthdays to fourth grade so they could have just three large classes between those two grades.

 

Basic services are very expensive, because they have to pay young working-age folks a lot to tempt them to come here despite the schools. And they have to bring them in, instead of drawing from the population here, because up-and-coming youngsters leave and don't come back, not wanting to raise their families here--And the young people who stay because they love the area and their families have always lived here are largely stuck in a cycle of poverty because of the poor education available to them here.

 

Just to say that, not being able to vote down school taxes doesn't look like such a bad thing from over here.

[jennynd]

Ah. Just going by the title that it was the school tax. Here you actually pay the school tax separate from the city tax (which I find to be very odd, but yeah that is how it works).

Yes, we get bill seperately for school and county tax.. And school tax is allloopoooot. But I also heard in NY they spent over 15k/student a year.. Then again the principal get paid over 120k/ year. Crazy

[T'smom]

I agree with everyone who said he was an idiot. I wish he wasn't out there representing homeschoolers. Lots of people never have kids, send their kids to private school, etc. We ALL benefit from an educated populace.

[Mommy22alyns]

I feel sorry for the woman behind the counter who had to bear the brunt of his idiocy.  I have spent a lot of time in retail, and we so often get the wrath of others for things that had NOTHING to do with us.  Find the person who makes the decisions and have a chat with them!

[kbutton]

As an example of the opposite problem, in my rural Oregon town, a large portion of our population are elderly retirees. As a result, all school taxes are voted down, and the quality of education here is abysmal. They have had to fire teachers each of the past few years, and gone to such lengths as skipping all of the third graders with fall birthdays to fourth grade so they could have just three large classes between those two grades.

 

Basic services are very expensive, because they have to pay young working-age folks a lot to tempt them to come here despite the schools. And they have to bring them in, instead of drawing from the population here, because up-and-coming youngsters leave and don't come back, not wanting to raise their families here--And the young people who stay because they love the area and their families have always lived here are largely stuck in a cycle of poverty because of the poor education available to them here.

 

Just to say that, not being able to vote down school taxes doesn't look like such a bad thing from over here.

 

Yeah, a balance would be nice. At the same time, you can't get blood from a turnip--if people can't afford it, they can't afford it. In our district, the most critical levies continue to pass; the less critical ones mean the school has to make do. It seems to even out over time in our case. One neighboring district has "benefited" in recent years from development by the way of more affluent tax payers, but then those folks want all the bells and whistles and will fork over the taxes. Folks who bought a house there before the boom are really squeezed. It causes a lot of controversy around levy time, judging by the yard signs!

[duckens]

It's not good when Forbes Magazine prints that you are not handling a financial situation well.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2013/09/05/man-pays-tax-bill-with-thousands-of-single-dollar-bills-to-protest-stolen-money/

[Jenny in Florida]

Buying a home in an area that requires a homeowner to pay high school tax is his choice. Paying $7k in dollar bills just to give the counter staff a hard time is just plan annoying. My sympathies are with the counter staff.  Since he is not happy he should do something constructive about it, not give someone who is just doing their job a hard time.

 

Exactly. As the "bigwig" quoted in the article said, "[D]isaffected taxpayers [should] show up at public meetings or perhaps run for local political office."

 

Look, I could get extremely unhappy about the portion of my federal taxes that goes to support things I don't believe it at all. But what good would it do to "protest" that by insisting on backing up a truck full of pennies to my closest IRS office?

 

It would have taken him a whole lot less time to write, print, put in an envelope, stick a stamp on and mail a letter to his local school board than it took to plan and execute this stunt.

 

When I get cranky about school taxes, I remind myself that it's no different from any of the other social support services I pay for but don't use. There are roads I never drive on that my taxes help build and maintain, for example. Most people in this country believe that good public schools are a benefit for our whole nation, that we all have an interest in doing what we can to raise the next generation of educated citizens. The school system ain't perfect -- not by a long shot. But it's all many kids have. Should we work to improve it? Of course. But I don't see anything about this guy's attempt at a media event that does that.

[Zuzu822]

For what it's worth, I live in a state with a reputation for high taxes, in the city with a reputation for high taxes. My school tax is about $1500 a year. My total Property tax bill is a little over $8000 a year. If he is really paying over $7000 a year in school taxes only on a reasonably normal home, then yes, I can understand why one the protest. Though I still do not understand what homeschooling has to do with anything. I would also guess that he is counting his entire property tax bill.

Yikes! Our 2500 sf house and five acres in that county was under $5000. Here in our current district/town/county it's $5300 (for 2000 sf and 1/3 acre). Why in the world is it so much higher for you? (Unless you've moved?)

 

 

 

Edited for typos...

[AdventureMoms]

 

Yikes! Our 2500 sf house and five acres in that county was under $5000. Here in our current district/town/county it's $5300 (for 2000 sf and 1/3 acre). Why in the world is it so much higher for you? (Unless you've moved?)

 

 

 

Edited for typos...

 

Haven't moved! I should probably clarify for those who don't know that my house is 1100SF worth under $100,000 (though I do have nearly an acre in the city - you were pretty far out in the sticks!). I pay county, city, and school taxes, so you probably did better tax wise by not being in town.

 

[SKL]

While he was wrong to take it out on someone who did not cause the problem, I think there's a lot of justified frustration with the money side of public education.  We simply spend too much and the output comes nowhere close to matching the input.  When you see the proportion of Americans who can't make change or write a short paragraph correctly after 13 years of very expensive public education, yeah, it's painful to write that check.  And the bill keeps going up with no end in sight.  Nice how it is just assumed that if we own a house, we must be able to afford any amount of property tax.

[jennynd]

A yup.  The only thing that makes it bearable is something called the Star credit.  Basically as long as you aren't a millionaire you get a bit of a break if you sign up.  This is only given to those who live on the property (not landlords, etc.).

 

My taxes are more than my mortgage and I just bought this place. 

 

I just recieve the info for the STAR, they are redo something this year so we have to apply again. Cross my fingers that hubby remeber to send it in. It says 500,000/yearly income is cutoff.

We alos know that since we live county saratoga, we actually get a break because the horse racing money. People live Nyskayuna pay much higher.

[clarkacademy]

I agree  with all of you, but I do think since the schools are paid for by taxes they should answer to the people not the government. With all I just went through with the local high school ESE they should be monitored by actual people on their funding and practices. I don't think it is wrong to pay for them but they are a problem and it is getting worse.

[clarkacademy]

Nothing will change anywhere unless people stand up but no one wants to be troubled. Nothing will ever change if all people do is sit around and witch about it. I may be wrong here but wasn't it like once upon a time parents were in charge so to speak? Like the town and everything voted on stuff for their schools and not all schools were ran the same? When parents were more involved it was different. I think if homeschoolers all got together and started saying no we will not be taxed for public schools and other parents got together saying their kids weren't going to attend or pay for it until there were some changes things would change maybe. Parents just take it. The bullying, the crap all of it. People need to stop.

[mommymilkies]

Well, I dislike the school system here, but they're one of the few passing schools in the state. And I live on a prime street. My taxes were $1400 this year. Total.