Raw Milk--Yea or Nay?

[TKDmom]

I've decided I want to start eating local food as much as possible. I discovered a local farm that sells raw milk (unpasturized, non-homogenized, grass-fed, etc, etc.) that they get from another farm in the state.

 

I bought some last week. It was way yummy. It looks like a fourth of it is cream. ;) But I'm concerned about safety too. I haven't visited the farm where this milk is produced. It's not right next door, so there is some transport time. I may go to our farmers market this week to see if anyone sells pasteurized milk. I'm not sold that the benefits of raw milk outweigh the risks. But I do want to buy milk from someone who is local and treats their cows well, without the extra hormones and antibiotics.

[Outdoorsy Type]

I would drink it if I knew the dairy was squeaky clean and run well.

[Mommyfaithe]

NOOOO!!!! Not after seeing my girlfriend go through Brucelosis. NO!!!!!

[Slartibartfast]

There is no way I would do that without visiting the farm. I have had raw milk and it is amazing but unless I have seen those cows I probably would not trust it.

[Susan in KY]

No way, no how. This is a highly controversial topic here, and you'll get a load of differing answers. However, you should know that the cleanliness of the facility can't prevent an infected deer from getting into the cow pasture and sharing the same hay as the cows who will be milked later.

 

Brucellosis is no laughing matter.

[amy g.]

Oh, yes!!! But only from my own goats and cows.

[Caitilin]

We've been drinking it for 2+ years now, and couldn't be happier. :)

[jen3kids]

 

Definitely. We drank raw milk for about 6 months before my kids rebelled - too thick, too much flavour :001_huh: . Now I try to find local organic milk that is lightly pasteurized.

 

You've got to realize that the farmers are feeding the milk to their families and loved ones. This is their livelihood. I trust that their farm is clean. Also, we were always welcome to come visit unannounced. As for getting sick from it... it happens very rarely, but you can get unexpectedly sick from eating lots of things, like cantaloupe!

 

[Lady Florida.]

I would not, but as another poster said, it's a controversial subject here.

[SarahW]

Well, I never visited the farm where we often buy raw milk from, but I get it from a co-op run by WAPF leaders, who drink it themselves so.... I'm wondering how you came about buying it. Unless you bought it from the end of their driveway, there should be a track record in the community of people who have used it.

 

But if you really want it pasteurized you can do that on your stove with a pan and a thermometer.

[Anne in CA]

Yes, I remember a horrible argument about this on the old board more than eight years ago, lol. I grew up drinking it, as did my siblings and we never had any problems, however, we lived in an isolated community, the cows were not traded around, they were raised by the dairy farmers we bought from, so there was a safety net.

[Dory]

I am a huge supporter of raw milk BUT, I would never recommend drinking it unless you've visited the farm and seen how they interact with the cows. Go take a drive and visit. Don't EVER drink raw milk otherwise. Cleanliness is hugely important when it comes to raw milk

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I would only consider it if it were my own animals, even then I'd home pasturize for my kids. Yes, there are people who drink raw milk and never get sick. But the risks when illness does happen are just not worth it.

 

We buy from a local dairy which pasturizes but doesn't homogenize.

[OK Family]

We drink raw milk we purchase from a local farm. I have to purchase it directly from the farm and transport it home in a cooler with ice packs. I would verify how it is transported. Raw milk is awesome. I always scoop out as much cream as I can to make butter, very easy if you have a mixer. I also make fresh whip cream some mornings, yum too. My nails never grow, I mean never. Since I started drinking raw milk they have grown like never before. Having long nails is not a big deal to me, however it definitely makes me realize the raw milk has benefits that pasteurized does not. One of my sons can be a bit milk intolerant, but no problems with the raw milk.

 

Yes people have gotten really sick on raw milk, im not making light of that. . Everything in life seems to have a negative attached to it. Flying in airplane... you can crash... Driving in a car...accident can happen. It depends on how clean the milking conditions are.

 

It is a decision you will have to make for you and your family.

[lailasmum]

I totally would as long as I could see the farm it came from. My mum grew up on raw milk from their own herd and never had a problem.

[fairfarmhand]

I drink it, from my own cows.

 

However, I would not from another farm. Who knows how they handle the milk, treat the cows, sanitize their equipment?

[milovany]

We love our raw goat milk. We wish we could sell it, but the regs. are pretty strict in our state. Our daughter is very thorough in cleaning the teats, udder and milking supplies, and in cooling down the milk quickly, but the milk house itself is a dusty, unsterilized setting. Sometimes she even milks outside. If we went commercial, we'd do the up-to-code setting.

[UrbanSue]

We have been drinking raw milk for about 8 years with no problems. In that time we've used three different farms. We've visited all of them in person and I highly recommend this as it is fun and educational.

 

Most cases of illness from milk in this country come from either 1) milk that is pasteurized or 2) milk that was intended for pasteurization. I'm sure people here have stories to the contrary but those are the across-the-board statistics. (I know, of course, that most Americans drink pasteurized and the sheer numbers skew statistics, but, still, pasteurized milk is not 100% risk-free, either.)

 

Something I consider is that these small, raw milk dairy farmer stand to lose everything if they screw up. One co-op I was in was fully supporting an Amish farmer and his large family. If we'd had a case of contamination they would have been out of business in one day. These farmers are generally a lot more careful than the big, commercial dairies.

[UrbanSue]

Let me add I would sooner drink it from a farmer in business to sell it before I'd buy it from a friend or neighbor who just had some extra. So check on the volume your farmer is doing. If he's just buddies with this other guy and sometimes has leftovers, I wouldn't do it. If this is his livelihood, visit the farm, and, probably, drink comfortably.

[Faithseed]

I also drink raw from my own animals, but would be very very cautious about drinking from another farm. I most certainly would visit the farm first!

[fairfarmhand]

We love our raw milk. We wish we could sell it, but the regs. are pretty strict in our state. Our daughter is very thorough in cleaning the teats, udder and milking supplies, and in cooling down the milk quickly, but the milk house itself is a dusty, unsterilized setting. Sometimes she even milks outside. If we went commercial, we'd do the up-to-code setting.

We have been drinking raw milk for about 8 years with no problems. In that time we've used three different farms. We've visited all of them in person and I highly recommend this as it is fun and educational.

 

Most cases of illness from milk in this country come from either 1) milk that is pasteurized or 2) milk that was intended for pasteurization. I'm sure people here have stories to the contrary but those are the across-the-board statistics. (I know, of course, that most Americans drink pasteurized and the sheer numbers skew statistics, but, still, pasteurized milk is not 100% risk-free, either.)

 

Something I consider is that these small, raw milk dairy farmer stand to lose everything if they screw up. One co-op I was in was fully supporting an Amish farmer and his large family. If we'd had a case of contamination they would have been out of business in one day. These farmers are generally a lot more careful than the big, commercial dairies.

 

We bought my cow from a commercial dairy. We went there and walked through the place.

 

I've always felt that while my milking stall is decently clean, since it is bare dirt, barn, etc. it wasn't that clean.

 

However, compared to that commercial farm, it is SOOO clean. The inflations that they were using to milk the cow had manure on them. The cows were not on any green grass at all, and therefore, the cow's legs and undersides were caked with manure. It was just a very dirty place. I told my hubby that I understood why they had to pasteurize the milk. There's just no way to keep things clean and sanitary when you're milking 500 cows three times (yes! THREE times) a day.

[Ellie]

If I can get raw milk from a certified raw-milk dairy, you bet. If it's from the farmer down the street...maybe not.

 

Certified dairies have extreme practices which make their raw milk safe.

[jen3kids]

We bought my cow from a commercial dairy. We went there and walked through the place.

 

I've always felt that while my milking stall is decently clean, since it is bare dirt, barn, etc. it wasn't that clean.

 

However, compared to that commercial farm, it is SOOO clean. The inflations that they were using to milk the cow had manure on them. The cows were not on any green grass at all, and therefore, the cow's legs and undersides were caked with manure. It was just a very dirty place. I told my hubby that I understood why they had to pasteurize the milk. There's just no way to keep things clean and sanitary when you're milking 500 cows three times (yes! THREE times) a day.

 

 

Yes, the CAFOs are disgusting, not natural at all. Blech!

[LAS in LA]

What exactly would you look for when visiting a farm that you're thinking of buying raw milk from?

[UrbanSue]

What exactly would you look for when visiting a farm that you're thinking of buying raw milk from?

 

 

Transparency. You should be allowed to question everything and see most things (it's reasonable that being allowed in during milking might not be allowed). The farmer should be passionate about what he's doing. He should have a large customer base. The cows should be out on green pasture (barring drought in your area) unless they are being milked.

 

I'm sure there's other stuff and others can chime in.

[TKDmom]

There is no way I would do that without visiting the farm. I have had raw milk and it is amazing but unless I have seen those cows I probably would not trust it.

 

That's kind of my gut feeling. And even if the farm is clean, that doesn't make it disease proof...

[KungFuPanda]

I'm not sure I'd want to drink raw milk if I had a cow. Milk is soooo easily contaminated and pasteurization was a good idea BEFORE cows were routinely given antibiotics or hormones. If an utter is infected, how many gallons of raw milk can get into the food supply before its caught. The barn can look sterile and there are still lots of ways to contaminate raw milk. I think it's rare to get sick because so few people are drinking raw milk. Maybe you just want local, organic milk? That's expensive enough!

[TKDmom]

Well, I never visited the farm where we often buy raw milk from, but I get it from a co-op run by WAPF leaders, who drink it themselves so.... I'm wondering how you came about buying it. Unless you bought it from the end of their driveway, there should be a track record in the community of people who have used it.

 

But if you really want it pasteurized you can do that on your stove with a pan and a thermometer.

 

Ok, I'm trying to do some research on the farm this milk comes from, and it looks like it is a part of a WAPF co-op. I just found the local farm that they deliver to from one of my friends and thought I'd see what the raw milk was like.

[TKDmom]

If I can get raw milk from a certified raw-milk dairy, you bet. If it's from the farmer down the street...maybe not.

 

Certified dairies have extreme practices which make their raw milk safe.

 

 

I'm not sure my state has certified raw milk dairies. Any raw milk sold here is *ahem*, "For pet consumption only".

[pixeldog]

If I can get raw milk from a certified raw-milk dairy, you bet. If it's from the farmer down the street...maybe not.

 

Certified dairies have extreme practices which make their raw milk safe.

 

 

We've been going across state lines to purchase raw milk (legally) from a certified farm (they are inspected and milk is tested), and we enjoyed visiting it as a field trip. What a pleasure! Raw milk from Milky Way Farm in SC is one of our favorite foods!

 

It is illegal to sell raw milk in NC but there is legislation in the works for a "cow share" type set allowance. I think it would be safer to just allow purchase of certified/tested raw milk than open a "cow share" can of worms, IMO. I'm afraid there might be more milk-related health problems with inexperienced folks deciding to "go in on a cow" than purchasing from a legal raw milk provider. That said, I'm officially in favor of having the *liberty* to make these types of choices for our families.

 

I learned about the benefits of raw milk from Weston A. Price Foundation (WAPF) http://www.westonaprice.org/. Their research has really had an impact on the foods we eat. We have had many improvements in our overall health as a family from following a WAPF-style "traditional" foods/cooking and primal approach (milk is debatably primal). I used to soak grains and make our bread but it just took too much time to prepare (same with the loads of fermented foods). Am losing weight now by eating primal and have discovered that I am sensitive to grain (never knew!).

 

If possible we'd eat our entire diet from local sources....can't always swing it, but it sure gets easier in the summer! Looking forward to our own garden veggies and local foods to enjoy now and put aside for the winter months.

[I.Dup.]

No.

[fairfarmhand]

What exactly would you look for when visiting a farm that you're thinking of buying raw milk from?

 

You will want to be able to look at everything and ask questions.

 

How often are the cows blood tested for disease?

 

What are your procedures for handling mastitis?

 

Do you test the milk for mastitis regularly?

 

How do you sanitize your equipment?

 

How many cows do you milk? (larger numbers might make me raise an eyebrow)

 

How many months are your cows dry before they give birth? (ideally, they should be dry a minimum of 8 weeks to help the cow recover her health and body condition)

 

Even if you can't observe a milking, look at the cows. Are their eyes bright and interested? Do they look healthy? Are they in a reasonable state of body condition? (dairy breeds are definitely skinnier than beef, but they should not look like walking skeletons)

 

After milking, what are your procedures for handling the milk?

 

What do the cows eat? (many small farms give the cows grain during milking as a "treat." However, the majority of a cow's diet should be grass, hay, alfalfa and other grasses rather than rich feeds designed to maximize the cow's production)

 

A good herdsmen will not be offended by any of these questions. They want to gain your trust and should be friendly and glad to answer your questions.

 

Generally, those who care properly for their cows will care properly for their milk. A conscientious farmer will be conscientious in everything. Someone who's just in it for the money may not be as careful, pushing the cows past their natural production levels and hurting the cow's health in the process.

[MistyMountain]

I don't do raw milk. No matter what the practices used there is risk to raw milk. A local farm near me had outbreaks of food born illness from raw milk and it was a farm that had good practices allows you to tour the facility. It wasn't a huge factory farm it was a small local farm. I don't buy into all the Weston Price claims or the claims that it is illegal because they don't want small farms. It is very false that there is more food born illness from pasteurized milk especially if you look per capita. Only a small percentage of people drink raw milk. Milk started to be pasteurized because of all the deaths and illness that were caused by raw milk.

[Orthodox6]

"Yes" if the consumer has read responsible research, is persuaded by the claims, and has selected a producer with an up-to-date safety record.

 

"No" for me, personally. I don't reject dairy, including raw products; however, I have reduced my intake of dairy products quite a bit in recent years. My personal belief, also, is that Weston Price information is not to be accepted.

[LizzyBee]

Yes, I remember a horrible argument about this on the old board more than eight years ago, lol. I grew up drinking it, as did my siblings and we never had any problems, however, we lived in an isolated community, the cows were not traded around, they were raised by the dairy farmers we bought from, so there was a safety net.

 

I remember that argument. I shared in that thread that when my siblings and I went to school, we thought it was funny that our science book talked about the dangers of raw milk. That's the only milk we'd ever had and it never made us sick. Butch later accused me of being a proponent of raw milk and I thought that was kind of hilarious since I left the farm at 17 yo and it never occurred to me until reading these boards to buy milk anywhere other than the grocery store. Until recently, I didn't know of anyone IRL that bought raw milk. That said, I would drink raw milk and give it to my family if I had a trustworthy source, but I don't, so it's a moot point.

[Crimson Wife]

I don't personally but I fully believe that it should be legal to buy raw dairy products from certified dairies so long as they are clearly labeled. Put up a "consume at your own risk" warning sign like the ones required for sushi. Let consumers decide for themselves whether or not it is a risk they are willing to take.

[Orthodox6]

Yes, I remember a horrible argument about this on the old board more than eight years ago, lol. I grew up drinking it, as did my siblings and we never had any problems, however, we lived in an isolated community, the cows were not traded around, they were raised by the dairy farmers we bought from, so there was a safety net.

 

 

I truly do not understand why people wax so vitriolic about milk. A few years ago, I abandoned a homeschooling board [not this one] because people were pontificating, both pro- and con-, about raw milk to such an extent that nobody was discussing homeschooling anymore.

[mom@shiloh]

I grew up on it. We buy it now from a farm down the road.

[happypamama]

I grew up drinking raw milk, and now we've been drinking it off and on (when we can afford it) for almost seven years, from three different dairies (including during pregnancies and including giving it to young children, usually after age 2 because I don't give them cow's milk when they're still breastfeeding a lot). I would only buy it from a certified dairy (I could conceivably drink it if I raised it myself or if a very close friend raised it, but I wouldn't buy it from a stranger who wasn't certified), but I have felt completely comfortable drinking it.

 

That being said, there was a local certified dairy that did have some problems that caused contamination and illness (I don't think any deaths, though). They redid their entire protocol for handling and worked to make themselves better and stronger. But really, life is a risk, plain and simple. It's up to you what you feel is an acceptable risk and what's not.

[TravelingChris]

I wouldn't drink it and wouldn't let anyone else drink it in my family. I would really hope that anyone who brought anything to a potluck or dessert table would label their food if they used raw milk too. For some of us, it is an extreme risk to take because of our illnesses or medications.

[Aura]

We've been going across state lines to purchase raw milk (legally) from a certified farm (they are inspected and milk is tested), and we enjoyed visiting it as a field trip. What a pleasure! Raw milk from Milky Way Farm in SC is one of our favorite foods!

 

It is illegal to sell raw milk in NC but there is legislation in the works for a "cow share" type set allowance. I think it would be safer to just allow purchase of certified/tested raw milk than open a "cow share" can of worms, IMO. I'm afraid there might be more milk-related health problems with inexperienced folks deciding to "go in on a cow" than purchasing from a legal raw milk provider. That said, I'm officially in favor of having the *liberty* to make these types of choices for our families.

 

I learned about the benefits of raw milk from Weston A. Price Foundation (WAPF) http://www.westonaprice.org/. Their research has really had an impact on the foods we eat. We have had many improvements in our overall health as a family from following a WAPF-style "traditional" foods/cooking and primal approach (milk is debatably primal). I used to soak grains and make our bread but it just took too much time to prepare (same with the loads of fermented foods). Am losing weight now by eating primal and have discovered that I am sensitive to grain (never knew!).

 

If possible we'd eat our entire diet from local sources....can't always swing it, but it sure gets easier in the summer! Looking forward to our own garden veggies and local foods to enjoy now and put aside for the winter months.

 

I love their milk!!! Used to drive to their dairy to pick it up myself, sometimes taking turns with friends/family. For a little while, we had an unofficial co-op. :)

 

I can understand why people would or would not want raw milk. I don't understand why people are so against others making a different choice than them.

[fairfarmhand]

I wouldn't drink it and wouldn't let anyone else drink it in my family. I would really hope that anyone who brought anything to a potluck or dessert table would label their food if they used raw milk too. For some of us, it is an extreme risk to take because of our illnesses or medications.

 

 

I promise you I am super careful when I make anything uncooked with raw milk. (ie. stuff with whipping cream or a cold pudding type dessert) just to serve it to my family. I would not serve it at a potluck or to guests. I would used raw milk/milk products for baking (butter from raw cream, cooked pie filling, etc.) because the recipe would be cooked.

 

You just never know who will eat your food at potlucks and certain people have more sensitive stomachs than others.

[amy g.]

I agree that it can be very dangerous for people with surpressed immune systems or chronic illness. I pasteurized when I had a baby, when I was pregnant and any time I am serving people outside of my family.

 

I brought some chèvre to swim team today to share with my best friend. You can bet I pasteurized first.

[aggieamy]

I love love love raw milk. It's the only milk we drink and have for years. The lady that gets it from the farm has drank it longer than we have and none of us have had a single problem.

[higginszoo]

I, personally, don't find it worth the additional investment. If I did, I'd buy directly from the farm(er) where it was produced, but not from a third party, even another farm. The more steps involved, the more opportunity for errors in handling, which I'd be very concerned about with this kind of product.

[kewb]

I think it is fine. My kids hated it so I gave up after trying a couple of different farms and different seasons.

[Mergath]

I don't think it's worth the risk. I sat down and researched both sides a couple years back, and the additional benefits aren't worth the risk to me. If your raw milk is contaminated, you get really, really sick. I love the idea of raw milk, but nope. Not worth it.

[Lilaclady]

There is a local farm that sells milk not too far from us. They deliver to some of our friends but had the milk labelled"for consumption by pets" just thought that was hilarious. No I don't drink raw milk but if I have my own animals, then I will.

[Mom4coupons]

We just tried it for the first time. I didn't feel comfortable buying another gallon because of research laying out the risk to my children. My choice would be fine for me but I didn't want to put my children at an increased risk. I didn't read of any superlative benefits that convinced me otherwise.

[tomandlorih]

I don't have time to read all the replies because I had surgery today and should be in bed! However, I highly recommend the book The Untold Story of Milk by Ron Schmid http://www.amazon.com/Untold-Story-Milk-Revised-Updated/dp/0979209528/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369366738&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=the+untold+sroty+of+milk as well as the Westin A Price site.

 

I personally switched my baby to raw goat milk at 6 months (from a certified grade A dairy) after she developed an allergy to the milk based formula (I was unable to nurse this one and I refuse to do soy) . My other children have had both raw goat and raw cow's milk off and on as I can afford it. My SIL was raised on a dairy and that's all they drank.

 

If you look it up there have actually been "many" (yes, I realize this is subjective to what your personal opinion of "many" is.. but if I remember correctly in my medication addled brain it was almost 150 cases) of people getting sick from PASTEURIZED milk so it is not perfectly safe either.

 

And I had to shake my head last pregnancy when the experts were telling me to not drink raw milk, eat soft cheese or eat deli meat but to eat more fruits and veggies and there were outbreaks of the same dreaded listeriosis from cantaloupe and spinach and what was is? green onions? or some such. So my baby and I weren't very "safe" eating fresh fruits and veggies either!!

 

I think it is a great thing to eat local and the best thing is to know your farmer, ask questions.. I noticed some good ones above as I scanned through. and IMHO, even if you purchased the raw milk and pasteurized it yourself.. your kids (and you) will be better off for having local, FRESH milk that is not homogenized and is grassfed and WHOLE.

 

Good luck in your decision for it is a personal choice. =D

 

BTW, my family drinks a LOT of filtered ice water.