The right to bear arms vs. the desire to bear arms

[Heather in Neverland]

I'd also say that I don't know where you're visiting that has gun sales on every corner. I'm sure there are pockets of that in the USA, but it certainly isn't all over.

 

In my state guns are legal (with a permit if it's a handgun) and I don't see gun stores around. The places you'll see those are around "outdoorsy" resort areas (where sport hunters would want to pick up some ammo or something). I'd have to do an internet search to find a gun shop. They do sell gun stuff at sporting stores, but that doesn't mean every American is just dying to buy and shoot a gun. There is no "I love my guns so f-u" in your face nonsense here, either.

 

I am from a suburb of Detroit and when we were there this summer there were two gun stores within a half mile of my mom's house. Not to mention guns at Walmart. :001_huh:

 

This has been a fascinating discussion. Many have given strong arguments for American gun ownership.

 

I suppose my question now is: why do so many people outside the US find this one aspect of our culture to be so distasteful? Do they have no fear of wildlife, break-ins, government oppression, etc.? Anyone here from another country care to chime in?

 

 

.

 

.

[ThisIsTheDay]

It's our culture. It's the sense of entitlement, combined with ignorance\arrogance. Gun owners may truly believe they are striking a blow for self-protection of the population, for safety against animal predators, for protection against home invasion. They will not be convinced by any evidence that demonstrates they are wrong. It's our culture.

 

 

Edited/I removed my response. Catherine clarified that she was not saying that gun owners are ignorant/arrogant, but that our culture as a whole is.

Edited August 6, 2012 by ThisIsTheDay

[KnitWit]

I am from a suburb of Detroit and when we were there this summer there were two gun stores within a half mile of my mom's house. Not to mention guns at Walmart. :001_huh:

 

This has been a fascinating discussion. Many have given strong arguments for American gun ownership.

 

I suppose my question now is: why do so many people outside the US find this one aspect of our culture to be so distasteful? Do they have no fear of wildlife, break-ins, government oppression, etc.? Anyone here from another country care to chime in?

 

 

.

 

Oh, Detroit. Now I understand the *extreme* that you witnessed while you were here. Seriously. It is not like that everywhere.

[FaithManor]

Oh, Detroit. Now I understand the *extreme* that you witnessed while you were here. Seriously. It is not like that everywhere.

 

 

Yes, please...I'm begging you as a Michigan resident to NOT make Detroit your stereotype of everywhere else.

 

Faith

[Heather in Neverland]

Yes, please...I'm begging you as a Michigan resident to NOT make Detroit your stereotype of everywhere else.

 

Faith

 

It is not my stereotype that bothers me. It is the stereotype the rest of the world has of Americans that is most on my mind. I am not losing sleep over it :D but it does make me curious as to why other countries think our love of guns is so distasteful.

[astrid]

Oddly I get the impression that people think I'm supposed to want a gun and if I don't something isn't quite right with my thinking.

 

Yes-- I feel like this all the time, especially here when the subject is discussed.

 

 

When I hear someone say they hate guns and would never own one, part of my mind goes to being an American citizen, which would not have happened if there were not armed people in this country ready to fight those who would have made us colonies of another country.

 

You're not saying that those who do not want to own guns are un-American, are you? :001_huh:

 

I think it's important to remember that when the colonists grabbed their rifles off the mantle and set out to muster against the British, there was no standing army, and firearms were considered a necessity of daily life in most places-- hunting, defense against angry Native Americans, etc. It was a very different world. I don't begrudge others the right to own a gun. I do have to question the sanity of allowing anyone with an internet connection and a paypal account the ability to amass enough weaponry to bring down an airliner and kill everyone within 200 miles. "The Right to Bear Arms" has become "The Right to Amass a Devastating Personal Arsenal Larger Than That of Some Small Countries and Able To Pierce An Substance Known to Humankind While Firing One Hundred Rounds Per Second."

 

This is what shocks and frightens me.

 

astrid

Edited August 6, 2012 by astrid

[Catherine]

No more or less ignorant or arrogant than the rest of the population. I'm talking about our culture as a whole, not just gun owners.

[Juniper]

Yes-- I feel like this all the time, especially here when the subject is discussed.

 

 

 

You're not saying that those who do not want to own guns are un-American, are you? :001_huh:

 

I think it's important to remember that when the colonists grabbed their rifles off the mantle and set out to muster against the British, there was no standing army, and firearms were considered a necessity of daily life in most places-- hunting, defense against angry Native Americans, etc.

 

astrid

I agree, but I think we also have a national memory of our standing army being turned against us. First we were British and had a measure of an army, it was turned against, then we did not have a standing army and had to create one from scratch. I think for many Americans we don't want to be caught with our pants down again, should something like that happen.

 

It is a bit like PTSD in the collective national memory. We have actually experienced it happening, and we know it could happen again. We hope it doesn't, and we have a pretty decent Constitution to prevent that from happening, but it is not like we are imagining a scenario that has never happened.

 

I think of it as a form of hyper-vigilance in some cases. Like a victim would after being attacked.

 

At least those are my thoughts. :D

Edited August 6, 2012 by Juniper

[PeacefulChaos]

 

I think something socially, psychologically, and emotionally has fractured in this country and too many people believe that the way to cope with a cr*ppy life is to maim or kill someone else.

 

 

Faith

:iagree: regarding why crime is worse now. I was actually going to say something similar myself. :)

 

I suppose my question now is: why do so many people outside the US find this one aspect of our culture to be so distasteful? Do they have no fear of wildlife, break-ins, government oppression, etc.? Anyone here from another country care to chime in?

 

.

 

I'm curious about this as well. I guess I just don't understand why it would be distasteful - it isn't like we all live up to the stereotype that they have in their mind, kwim? It's kind of an ignorant stereotype, honestly. :tongue_smilie:

 

I think it's sort of unfair of others to be critical of people who choose to have a gun. I really don't care whether anyone does or not, but I am glad that we can if we want to.

And I'll say it again, in case it got lost in that last sentence: I really don't care if someone wants a gun or not. I don't think it makes them ignorant not to want one. :confused: I just assume they don't want one, and that is their prerogative. I think no differently of them than anyone else.

[Mrs Mungo]

This is something I wonder about. I grew up in small town Texas. Pretty much every house had guns. Ours did and they weren't even locked up, yet we all knew enough about guns to not play with them. We never locked our doors. There was very little crime and the crime that was there didn't involve people shooting each other, not even kids accidentally. Something has changed, but I don't really think it's just the access to guns.

 

I think it *is* part of the change. I think there have been four big changes:

 

1. It's harder to lock people up for being a potential danger.

 

2. Access to health care, including mental health is worse than it used to be.

 

3. Communities are less close. It's easier for people to isolate themselves. It's harder to identify those people in the community.

 

4. The access to the types of guns available is different. An assault rifle with a high capacity clip can kill a LOT more people than a hand-gun or hunting rifle.

 

If an intruder comes into our home, calling 911 won't help. They can't get here fast enough. It was a police officer who told me that when I was dealing with a repeating peeping Tom. A police officer told me everyone should be prepared and trained to defend their own lives inside their own homes. He was right. And so I demand the legal option to defend myself or our children with a device that will permanently neutralize the intruder. I am not interested in gambling with having to use martial arts against a man who is taller and stronger than me in that situation. I want to deal with him safely, from a distance, with something that is likely to actually work.

 

I agree. Shotguns are great for this. If you need an assault rifle with a high-capacity clip to get the job done, then you probably should not be shooting at an intruder.

 

Here's something: We are not Serbia. That would be really bad.

 

Personally, I'd like us to aim higher than that. Sigh.

[Audrey]

It's our culture. It's the sense of entitlement, combined with ignorance\arrogance. Gun owners may truly believe they are striking a blow for self-protection of the population, for safety against animal predators, for protection against home invasion. They will not be convinced by any evidence that demonstrates they are wrong. It's our culture.

 

:iagree: Well said, and stated so much more nicely than I am usually thinking whenever this subject arises.

[PeacefulChaos]

:iagree: Well said, and stated so much more nicely than I am usually thinking whenever this subject arises.

 

I get the sentiment that Catherine has - I really do.

But in all honestly, I think a lot of people have guns and will never use them other than to learn how to shoot should the need arise (as in our case). Why would that be considered a bad, selfish thing?

[ThisIsTheDay]

No more or less ignorant or arrogant than the rest of the population. I'm talking about our culture as a whole, not just gun owners.

 

Thank you for clarifying. I edited my original response to reflect your correction of my misunderstanding. I apologize for jumping the gun--so to speak.

[HejKatt]

I suppose my question now is: why do so many people outside the US find this one aspect of our culture to be so distasteful? Do they have no fear of wildlife, break-ins, government oppression, etc.? Anyone here from another country care to chime in?

.

 

I'll try. I'm from that little country neighboring yours, the one that doesn't even show up on the map. :001_smile:

 

1. When we hear about the mass murders in the US, guns are invariably involved. A person can do more damage with a gun than with another handheld weapon.

 

2. Wildlife .. doesn't apply in my country's case, we are 100% urban. Perhaps a century or so ago, when we still had tigers? In any case, I can't speak for that time. :tongue_smilie:

 

3. Break-ins: Dense population, so it was efficient to cover every area by police. I remember coming here, and feeling insecure because I could go for a long time without seeing a police station or center.

 

4. Government oppression : Individualism is not our strong suit, perhaps encouraged by our govt. which has been described as a 'benevolent dictatorship'. During the violent communist struggles of the 50s and 60s, when the ruling party came to power, it really did seem better.

 

As I write this, I realize it seems that we had a convergence of circumstances whereby guns were not needed on the individual level. But for the US, the picture is different - the genie is already out of the bottle, so as to speak. There are guns scattered throughout the population, the question is to restrain the wrong elements. For us who never had it, it seemed simpler never to have had them in the first place.

[Rosie_0801]

Do they have no fear of wildlife,

Do you shoot spiders?

break-ins,

Yeah, a little. Life is risky. Owning a gun won't stop someone breaking in, sleeping with a gun on my bedside table has a much higher chance of creating a problem than solving one, and if I have to go get the gun out of the safe, I won't have time to shoot an intruder anyway. If I did, he gets arrested for breaking and entering and I go to jail for grievous bodily assault or manslaughter. People don't often break into houses, I live in places that don't look worth breaking into and keeping my door locked won't hurt anyone. People breaking in usually want to steal your stuff, not hurt you. They'd rather come when you're not home.

government oppression, etc.?

:lol: When the government wants to oppress us, it has better ways of doing it. The government isn't going to bring the army to my door. It'll put propaganda on the telly, cut mental health funding, close down some schools and bump up the tax on petrol.

 

Rosie

Edited August 6, 2012 by Rosie_0801

[annandatje]

Not another one. Lord have mercy.

 

He carried out his destruction with a single handgun according to article and held white supremacist views although he was not a member of any organization. It is being treated as a case of domestic terrorism according the the NBC article:

 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/05/13130110-gunman-opens-fire-at-sikh-temple-in-wisconsin-7-dead?lite

[stripe]

I have to agree with this sentiment. Something is wrong; something that was not wrong a couple of generations ago.

...

I think something socially, psychologically, and emotionally has fractured in this country and too many people believe that the way to cope with a cr*ppy life is to maim or kill someone else.

 

 

It's really strange. That's what I was thinking. I mean, seriously, people lose their cool over everything. I was looking for something at the dollar store once, near to another shopper, and all of a sudden she tells the person she's on the phone with all about how some people are just so rude (she meant me). To this day I have no clue what that was about. What are people so furious about all the time? That's why I struggle so much with all the toddlers (there seems to be at least one a year in my local area) who are killed by a parent/stepparent/bf/gf of parent/grandparent over peeing on the floor.

Edited August 6, 2012 by stripe

[justamouse]

It's really strange. That's what I was thinking. I mean, seriously, people lose their cool over everything. I was looking for something at the dollar store once, near to another shopper, and all of a sudden she tells the person she's on the phone with all about how some people are just so rude (she meant me). To this day I have no clue what that was about. What are people so furious about all the time? That's why I struggle so much with all the toddlers (there seems to be at least one a year in my local area) who are killed by a parent/stepparent/bf/gf of parent/grandparent over peeing on the floor.

 

So true.

[MrsBasil]

He carried out his destruction with a single handgun according to article and held white supremacist views although he was not a member of any organization. It is being treated as a case of domestic terrorism according the the NBC article:

 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/05/13130110-gunman-opens-fire-at-sikh-temple-in-wisconsin-7-dead?lite

 

 

Thank you for the link.....I'm in tears. What a horrible, horrible thing to happen.

[magnificent_baby]

No more or less ignorant or arrogant than the rest of the population. I'm talking about our culture as a whole, not just gun owners.

 

Okay, I think I am off to hang on the curriculum board for awhile. It will cost me $, but better than my blood pressure rising over this thread. :D There seems to be a lot of USA bashing the past few days for some reason.

[Whereneverever]

Never mind.

Edited August 6, 2012 by theretohere

[justLisa]

It's really strange. That's what I was thinking. I mean, seriously, people lose their cool over everything. I was looking for something at the dollar store once, near to another shopper, and all of a sudden she tells the person she's on the phone with all about how some people are just so rude (she meant me). To this day I have no clue what that was about. What are people so furious about all the time? That's why I struggle so much with all the toddlers (there seems to be at least one a year in my local area) who are killed by a parent/stepparent/bf/gf of parent/grandparent over peeing on the floor.

 

People can be so horrible :(

[SKL]

So you think it's a good idea to take gun safety in case I want to shoot at flying critters in my house? :lol:

 

No, so you can understand what people are talking about when they talk about guns and how you can be safer (and keep your kids safer) even as a non-gun owner.

[Spy Car]

One striking thing that differentiates gun ownership in America vs Switzerland is that in the later case citizens own guns with the expressed purpose of coming to the aid of their nation should the need arise, and with-in the context of a well-regulated militia (which is also a key rationale in the American Second Amendment).

 

In this country a scarily large portion of gun owners don't own guns to defend our nation from foreign threat, but with the intention of either fighting our Federal government or being a sufficient threat to prevent an "over reach" of power by "THE GOVERNMENT" which (in their eyes) is ready to go totalitarian at the first opportunity.

 

The odd deal is those who are most paranoid about the American government being reigned in only due to a highly armed citizenry are also those who claim to be most patriotic. Seems weird to me.

 

Unfortunately the forces that gain from pushing fear: fear of the "other", fear of minorities, fear of neighbors, those who believe people are depraved and of a sin nature and are to be feared rather than loved, love to manipulate fear for their own ends.

 

Guns are not the answer. There is a lot more security in a good lock and a solid-core door.

 

Bill

Edited August 6, 2012 by Spy Car

[Jennifer3141]

This discussion fascinates me.

 

I live in a northern rural area of northern Michigan. We have the militia up here and DH has more than 15 shot guns and hand guns in the house. His hobby is target shooting. He'll never shoot an animal unless we catch it attacking one of ours. Coyotes and stray dogs are a problem up here so that may happen someday.

 

I've spent time in local gun shops waiting for DH and giving him "permission" (he has a hard time spending money on himself) for more guns and more ammunition. I don't personally get the gun thing. And I don't get the fear that some gun owners have of the government coming in the night and taking all their weapons.

 

We have actually had to use a gun to protect our family.

 

All that being said, I would be ok if all the guns in the world disappeared tomorrow. I believe our citizens have the right to bear arms. I believe people can have fun shooing guns but I also believe we have lost our freaking minds over the "right to bear arms."

 

DH has a professional goal and when he attains it, he intends to buy an assault rifle. I have a hard time with this (Athough it will only be able to be used at a range thank goodness. We don't have enough land for this gun). I don't get why a citizen needs to fire 200 rounds a minute or whatever they do. I get that it's important to DH but I think it's ridiculous. And I'm going to get the creme de la creme of chicken coops when he brings this stupid thing home.

 

If it takes you 200 shots to take down a deer, you SUCK at hunting. Put the gun away. If we get to the point where we need 200 rounds a minute for protection against other human beings, I think the world will have gone screwy enough that we are ALL fighting.

 

We we first started out as a nation, guns looked a lot different. They took time to load. The writers of our Constitution never imagined assault rifles. They also never imagined people snapping and shooting up churches, elementary schools, and movie theatres on a regular enough basis that most rational people now have at least a little nervous tickle in the backs of their minds every time they go out now.

 

We're angrier and we're twitchier and we've got some seriously mentally ill people out there, both diagnosed and undiagnosed.

 

I'd like to see us as a nation sit down and talk with each other about things like mentally ill people and gun licenses. Convicted criminals and gun licenses. The NRA and politics. Guns and ammunition on the internet. Hate groups and stockpiling. I think we are smart enough to figure out how to reasonably limit guns to make our country safer. And that will annoy people like my DH but I'd trade his AK47 for the knowledge that my kids are a wee bit safer at the park anyday. I'd like to believe he would too.

[SKL]

 

1. When we hear about the mass murders in the US, guns are invariably involved. A person can do more damage with a gun than with another handheld weapon.

 

Except when they involve bombs, arson, poison, and hijacked aircraft.

[justLisa]

Ok just so I"m not remembered as some gun hating freak, I just don't like them. I HAVE used a shot gun and a rifle when I lived in the tumbleweeds. We used to use Christmas bulbs as target practice. That was many many years ago.

 

But I don't have bears, or woods near my house right now. I don't think I need to learn how to clean and take apart a gun if I don't want to have/use one.

 

I do not judge a person based on if they have one or not. I don't necessarily think it speaks about a person's character should you want to shoot guns or not. *I* am not a whimpy scaredy cat because I don't want a gun, and I don't think all gun owners are somehow just waiting for the chance to use it. Well, unless you are hunting.

[KungFuPanda]

One striking thing that differentiates gun ownership in America vs Switzerland is that in the later case citizens own guns with the expressed purpose of coming to the aid of their nation should the need arise, and with-in the context of a well-regulated militia (which is also a key rationale in the American Second Amendment).

 

In this country a scarily large portion of gun owners don't own guns to defend our nation from foreign threat, but with the intention of either fighting our Federal government or being a sufficient threat to prevent an "over reach" of power by "THE GOVERNMENT" which (in their eyes) is ready to go totalitarian at the first opportunity.

 

The odd deal is those who are most paranoid about the American government being reigned in only due to a highly armed citizenry are also those who claim to be most patriotic. Seems weird to me.

 

Unfortunately the forces that gain from pushing fear: fear of the "other", fear of minorities, fear of neighbors, those who believe people are depraved and of a sin nature and are to be feared rather than loved, love to manipulate fear for their own ends.

 

Guns are not the answer. There is a lot more security in a good lock and a solid-core door.

 

Bill

 

I don't know if anyone has thought of this, but the US does have a large army that is expected to go all over the world. I'll own up to not knowing how much the average Malaysian soldier worries about foreign deployment. Very often young people are trained and shipped to combat with very little turn-around time.

 

I know when I was a teenager serving in the Army I was GLAD that I went into the military knowing how to shoot. I had a distinct advantage on the range and that whole experience would have seemed VERY rushed if I'd never handled a rifle. There ARE still people whose lives can depend upon how well they shoot.

[Mrs Mungo]

Kung Fu-Here is a tangentially related story for you. :)

 

On one of our moves (to a position in a joint unit, I should probably point out) my dh was due to go to the range. His new boss told him, "anyone who can outshoot me will get a day off." DH *easily* outshot him. He asked dh, "I shoot in competitions, I fancy myself a marksman, how did you outshoot me?" DH replied, "I'm from Texas." :lol:

Edited August 6, 2012 by Mrs Mungo

[besroma]

Kung Fu-Here is a tangentially related story for you. :)

 

On one of our moves (to a position in a joint unit, I should probably out) my dh was due to go to the range. His new boss told him, "anyone who can outshoot me will get a day off." DH *easily* outshot him. He asked dh, "I shoot in competitions, I fancy myself a marksman, how did you outshoot me?" DH replied, "I'm from Texas." :lol:

 

:D

[Spy Car]

I don't know if anyone has thought of this, but the US does have a large army that is expected to go all over the world. I'll own up to not knowing how much the average Malaysian soldier worries about foreign deployment. Very often young people are trained and shipped to combat with very little turn-around time.

 

I know when I was a teenager serving in the Army I was GLAD that I went into the military knowing how to shoot. I had a distinct advantage on the range and that whole experience would have seemed VERY rushed if I'd never handled a rifle. There ARE still people whose lives can depend upon how well they shoot.

 

I'm not against anyone knowing how to shoot. While I don't own a gun, I'm a pretty good shot myself.

 

I do have a problem with who those guns might be trained upon. Too many heavily armed citizens seem to maintain their stockpiles with the rational of fighting against the American government rather than fighting to protect it. And that can be scary. If you know what I mean.

 

Bill

Edited August 6, 2012 by Spy Car

[KungFuPanda]

Kung Fu-Here is a tangentially related story for you. :)

 

On one of our moves (to a position in a joint unit, I should probably point out) my dh was due to go to the range. His new boss told him, "anyone who can outshoot me will get a day off." DH *easily* outshot him. He asked dh, "I shoot in competitions, I fancy myself a marksman, how did you outshoot me?" DH replied, "I'm from Texas." :lol:

 

background music: A Country Boy Can Survive

 

LOVE IT! Despite the prevalence of firearms in the cities, I think the country kids DID have a distinct advantage on the range. We could all swim too. BooYah!

[Amy Jo]

Interesting thread. We have guns because we like to shoot, we [sometimes] hunt, and for protection. Had to use the gun to protect the chickens the other day. I pray I never have to shoot another human being, but I will protect us if necessary. I don't run around bragging about owning guns, and if you don't want to have a gun (or to even talk about guns), that's fine with me. We can still be friends. :)

 

I don't give a rat's behind what the other nations think of us. And I don't spend much time thinking about their problems. My view is we all have our lot in life - our responsibilities. We need to fix our own problems (in a very broad sense) and not run around uninvited gossiping about others. I don't like gossips (I've been on the receiving end), and I don't see this as any different.

 

* I resent the insinuation that gun owners are to ____ to look at the "facts" and change their minds. Basically saying you don't agree with me so obviously you are an idiot.

* I think the OP said drug dealers there are hung. I'd imagine that has something to do with crime rates - many seem to be drug related. Perhaps criminals aren't deterred by tough sentences, but just as dead men tell no tales, they also commit no crimes.

* I'm sorry some people feel they have to defend the decision not to have a gun. It's a personal choice, and we should be free to choose without feeling defensive. Just like we can choose whether or not to carry a purse. :D

* I don't think it's the guns. Really I don't. Something has changed in the culture. Life is cheap, violence is everywhere, the entitlement attitude, the media, revolving prison doors, lawyers getting people off on technicalities, the criminal's rights being worth more than the victim's, victims being blamed because they "caused" or invited the crime, people want their 15 min of fame, blood & gore in media... I don't know. I think that's why the Circe thread hit me so hard - focus on the true, the good, and the beautiful. That (to me) is what is missing in America / the world.

[Shawna in Texas]

LOVE IT! Despite the prevalence of firearms in the cities, I think the country kids DID have a distinct advantage on the range. We could all swim too. BooYah!

 

We had a 'Wildlife' class in high school. We learned to hold a rifle and we watched deer hunting videos.

 

DH has a gun that he goes to shoot at a range when he goes back home. Sometimes he brings it back with him, but he never has ammunition. He buys it and uses it all at the range.

 

It took him several years for him to understand (because he's so good with a gun), why we can't have a loaded weapon at home. I'm not him. I would never be able to safely use it. No matter how good a shot I could be at the range doesn't translate to how I'm going to behave under pressure. I freak out very easily. I'd be the type to put a hand over my eyes and let loose. I'm not proud of that, but there it is.

 

He doesn't hunt either. Hunting down here translates to sitting up in a deer stand waiting for the deer to come get the feed. There's usually a lot of beer involved. They really should call it something else.

 

All you have to do is go to my FIL's FB page and see why America might have the reputation we do. He has an absolute b0n3r for the 2nd Amendment.

[Soror]

 

I've spent time in local gun shops waiting for DH and giving him "permission" (he has a hard time spending money on himself) for more guns and more ammunition. I don't personally get the gun thing. And I don't get the fear that some gun owners have of the government coming in the night and taking all their weapons.

 

We have actually had to use a gun to protect our family.

 

All that being said, I would be ok if all the guns in the world disappeared tomorrow. I believe our citizens have the right to bear arms. I believe people can have fun shooing guns but I also believe we have lost our freaking minds over the "right to bear arms."

 

DH has a professional goal and when he attains it, he intends to buy an assault rifle. I have a hard time with this I get that it's important to DH but I think it's ridiculous.

 

If it takes you 200 shots to take down a deer, you SUCK at hunting. Put the gun away. If we get to the point where we need 200 rounds a minute for protection against other human beings, I think the world will have gone screwy enough that we are ALL fighting.

 

We we first started out as a nation, guns looked a lot different. They took time to load. The writers of our Constitution never imagined assault rifles. They also never imagined people snapping and shooting up churches, elementary schools, and movie theatres on a regular enough basis that most rational people now have at least a little nervous tickle in the backs of their minds every time they go out now.

 

We're angrier and we're twitchier and we've got some seriously mentally ill people out there, both diagnosed and undiagnosed.

 

I'd like to see us as a nation sit down and talk with each other about things like mentally ill people and gun licenses. Convicted criminals and gun licenses. The NRA and politics. Guns and ammunition on the internet. Hate groups and stockpiling. I think we are smart enough to figure out how to reasonably limit guns to make our country safer. And that will annoy people like my DH but I'd trade his AK47 for the knowledge that my kids are a wee bit safer at the park anyday. I'd like to believe he would too.

 

We have a lot in common. I'm ok with guns but not a huge militant fan. Dh likes to collect them because of the history and just because he thinks some are cool for various reasons and such that I don't understand. He also hunts with them as well. He wants to get an assault rifle after we pay off the house. I think it is stupid and told him so but won't forbid it.

 

I agree with you that our forefathers had no clue about the times we are living. Dh and I had that discussion the other night and we don't agree. He argues that the populace is supposed to have guns in case they are needed as defense against the government. So, my question is where do we draw the line as to what kind of guns. Should we have a right to any gun out there and what should be the determining facts.

[TheReader]

Jumping in on this late, but just wanted to say that Brazil also has laws that make any & all guns illegal to own, even BB guns. And yet crime is a for real, big deal, happens all the time kind of thing. I don't think gun laws/gun control are the only factor in how peaceful a place is.

 

As for wanting guns.....I think most Americans have an innate desire to push against any perceived threat to independence & freedom, and I think that's what the desire stems from. For so long it's been a right, and in the past maybe decade or two? the noise about limiting access to guns has gotten louder and louder; as more & more people fear that right being taken away, the American instinct is to push back and turn "I support the 2nd amendment" into "you will pry my gun from my cold dead fingers" kinds of statements.

 

I also sort of think it's mostly hyperbole as people stand up and say "I do not support laws that limit my right to own whatever kind of gun I want to own." Yes, some probably mean it when they say things like that, but I imagine quite a few are just being loud back, as it were. Not to mention that we tend to only hear the loudest voices, ya know?

[stripe]

What makes me really sad is to hear stories of young kids getting a hold of their parent's unlocked gun and accidentally shooting their friends.

According to this paper by the Rand Corp. called Guns in the Family:

 

Thirty-four percent of children in the United States (representing more than 22 million children in 11 million homes) live in homes with at least one firearm. In 69 percent of homes with firearms and children, more than one firearm is present.

...

In 9 percent of homes with children and firearms, at least one firearm is stored unlocked and loaded, and in another 4 percent at least one firearm is unlocked, unloaded, and stored with ammunition. This means that in about 13 percent of homes with children and firearms--about 2.6 million children in 1.4 million homes--firearms are stored in a way that makes them most accessible to children. Overall, fewer than half of the U.S. families with firearms and children store firearms locked (either in a locked place or secured with a trigger lock) and separate from ammunition.

 

Also from http://archpedi.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=347593

Most guns involved in self-inflicted and unintentional firearm injuries originate either from the victim's home or the home of a friend or relative.

...

Unintentional firearm injuries, though far less frequent, led to 440 deaths of children younger than age 19 years in 1995 alone. It is thought that there are 5 times as many visits to emergency departments for nonfatal unintentional firearm injuries compared with fatal injuries.

 

As to childhood drowning, it's the #1 cause of accidental death for children in the US, so not particularly rare, actually.

[Seeker of Schole]

* I resent the insinuation that gun owners are to ____ to look at the "facts" and change their minds. Basically saying you don't agree with me so obviously you are an idiot.

* I'm sorry some people feel they have to defend the decision not to have a gun. It's a personal choice, and we should be free to choose without feeling defensive. Just like we can choose whether or not to carry a purse. :D

* I don't think it's the guns. Really I don't. Something has changed in the culture. Life is cheap, violence is everywhere, the entitlement attitude, the media, revolving prison doors, lawyers getting people off on technicalities, the criminal's rights being worth more than the victim's, victims being blamed because they "caused" or invited the crime, people want their 15 min of fame, blood & gore in media...

 

:iagree:

 

As a person who has lived in either suburban or country areas her entire life, areas where most people wouldn't consider overtly dangerous - and has had to use a weapon to protect her family 3 different times, twice from people - I will never give up my right to arms. If that makes me ignorant or whatever else then so be it.

[Lolly]

Me, we own guns because they are tremendously fun! Dh does have a security pistol he keeps handy in case of break-ins.

 

I grew up in a household where guns were just part of normal. My brothers all carry pretty much all the time. They can and have used theirs to stop crimes. In fact, just last year, the home next door to one of my dbro had been robbed multiple times (as well as other houses nearby). He saw it happening one day and ended up chasing the robbers down the street (they in a van/he in his bare feet) with his gun drawn due to circumstances that were occurring. (911 had been notified, but cannot appear instantaneously.) The robberies in his neighborhood mysteriously stopped completely after that incident. So, yes, gun ownership definitely can have an impact on crime.

 

But mostly, we use them for fun. It is great fun to have a family round of target practice. We also tend to kill a lot of skeet around here.

[Laura Corin]

I can't imagine anyone could view an ability to live off the land as a character flaw!

 

In the UK you can have a gun for hunting, and many people in the countryside do. They aren't automatic or semi-automatic. You can't have a gun for other purposes.

 

Laura

[Jennifer3141]

We see bears on a regular basis. I think we've counted 8 different ones since April. I don't use an air horn- so far clapping and talking loudly is enough to make them scamper off.

 

 

Laughing delightedly works too. We were so excited to see a bear on our property this spring that we laughed and scared her off before we could take pics. We were so sad!! lol

[Laura Corin]

I suppose my question now is: why do so many people outside the US find this one aspect of our culture to be so distasteful? Do they have no fear of wildlife, break-ins, government oppression, etc.? Anyone here from another country care to chime in?

 

I don't fear those things. We have only one shy venomous snake and no large carnivorous mammals. Burglars rarely come armed because they don't expect to meet a gun in the home. Government oppression..... just doesn't occur to me.

 

As an outsider - here I go again, answering one of Heather's questions and putting my head in the lion's mouth.... Heather, you've just got to stop doing this - the passion for guns seems disproportionate and self-destructive. We have a problem with knife-crime in Britain, but knives are usually limited in their killing potential. To put weapons capable of such carnage in the hands of often unbalanced people just seems out of balance with the stated advantages of widespread gun ownership.

 

Guys.... I was asked my opinion. Please don't jump down my throat. I was asked and I answered.

 

Laura

Edited August 6, 2012 by Laura Corin

[Laura Corin]

FWIW, I appreciate your comments. I'm having a hard time wording how I feel about it.

 

Laura

[NASDAQ]

We're Canadian and my husband owns a gun. I don't see anything wrong with it. He wants to practice a skill and protect his family, which are both normal and laudable desires.

 

Most little boys like weapons. My brother's hobby is sword-fighting. My brother-in-law shoots _and_ sword-fights. He's a normal, healthy person.

[TammyS]

I HATE that Americans are thought of as violent, gun-obsessed crazies by the rest of the world because I know we aren't.

 

 

 

A good friend of mine, when one of her kids was called a name by a playmate and came in crying about said to the kid, "Does so and so carry your joy in their mouth?".

 

Besides, if it wasn't guns, it would be something else. America is at the top (whether we remain there is debatable) and there will always be a significant percentage of the "not at the top" population who hates whoever is at the top. It's much easier to hate on the winner than to work harder yourself.

[TammyS]

I think that culture is often overlooked in these discussions. America's culture is one of fierce individualism. That drives our attitudes towards many things, business, parenting and yes, guns. IMO.

 

This is true. We have a different relationship with the idea and sense of freedom than the rest of the world, including those places that are now democratic. Western European democracy has been achieved through various stages of wresting control from the monarchies, bit by bit. American democracy is based in the idea that our freedoms are inherent, not granted by the government, but rather protected by the government. That means that Americans feel their freedoms are to be protected above all, even the government, whereas, others feel their freedoms granted by the government as a sort of gift, and therefore don't seem to hold on to them quite as jealously, or to experience the same kind of indignation that Americans feel when they believe their freedoms to be infringed upon (I recogonize that these are broad generalizations and don't even begin to address the complexity of the non-Western Eu areas).

[scooby-do]

I'm sorry but I can not sift through 18 pages of posts. The 2nd amendment right( which I value) was not so much put in the Constitution to protect ourselves against others, but to protect ourselves from a government that has gone stark raving mad. It is the one that secures all other rights.

 

With that said:

 

Gun Control, yes, the theory that becoming a victim is somehow morally superior to defending yourself and your family. Makes perfect sense.

[TammyS]

What makes me really sad is to hear stories of young kids getting a hold of their parent's unlocked gun and accidentally shooting their friends. And I don't get why people aren't held responsible for that. I'd get my rear dragged through the legal mud if I had a blow up baby pool in my back yard and some kid came into my yard and fell into it and accidentally drowned (my yard is fenced, that wouldn't matter). But if I leave my loaded gun on my kitchen table, leave my kids alone with their friends and my kid shoots the friend accidentally, I'm not responsible. There is something very bizarre about that. We are also not allowed to carry a stun gun. I can only carry a gun that will likely kill someone, not one that will only likely stun someone long enough for me to get away. Totally totally strange thinking.

 

I don't know what makes you think so. If you did that and the kid died, you would be charged, at the very least, with negligent homicide.

[SKL]

Not here. It happened 2 times recently and nobody was charged with anything.

 

You'd be charged in my part of the USA.

 

I grew up around guns and was never in danger as a result. Having a gun in the house is like having a lawn mower. It can kill or maim your kid if you don't take precautions; there is plenty of evidence of that. But if you do take precautions, it can be very safe. And I've never heard of people dissing Americans for our apparent obsession with owning badass mowing machines.

[SKL]

Not here. It happened 2 times recently and nobody was charged with anything.

 

Wait a second - did you say you live in NYC? Don't they have very strict gun control there? How could you even legally get to the point of having a loaded gun in your house, let alone get away with a death if the thing goes off?