So my sister has her teaching degree and told me today...

[lynn]

That my dd needed to continue to attend ps because she is shy and will never learn to stand up for herself if she does not experience or learn to handle some bullying:blink:. This came after I told her one reason I am hsing is because of the experience we had last year with a girl at her class picking on her because she knew dd was shy and will not speak up among other reasons. So her logic is to let my child get bullied to learn how to handle life? How sad is this thinking.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Stand up to your sister, point out to her that you are standing up to her, and then inform her that you will teach your daughter to be like you.

 

Women do have to learn to stand up for themselves, but I don't see any evidence that public school is the place to learn that lesson. It's internal, and it comes from self-confidence and from observing strong women (such as one's own mother) in action over many years.

 

:grouphug:

[lynn]

Stand up to your sister, point out to her that you are standing up to her, and then inform her that you will teach your daughter to be like you.

 

Women do have to learn to stand up for themselves, but I don't see any evidence that public school is the place to learn that lesson. It's internal, and it comes from self-confidence and from observing strong women (such as one's own mother) in action over many years.

 

:grouphug:

 

I was shocked and did not know quite how to repond. If it comes up again, which I know it will....I'll be ready to point that out.

[alisoncooks]

Well, I have a teaching degree and I support your decision. So there, we cancel each other out. :D

[Chris in VA]

Stand up to your sister, point out to her that you are standing up to her, and then inform her that you will teach your daughter to be like you.

 

Women do have to learn to stand up for themselves, but I don't see any evidence that public school is the place to learn that lesson. It's internal, and it comes from self-confidence and from observing strong women (such as one's own mother) in action over many years.

 

:grouphug:

 

What an EXCELLENT answer. :D

[wapiti]

I might also note that a teaching degree is not conferred concurrently with a degree in psychology. A teaching degree is irrelevant to the issue, unless she can present special lessons on how to stand up to bullies as well as turn introverts into extroverts (if she does possess this special expertise, then perhaps she can tutor her neice on the side).

Edited June 29, 2012 by wapiti

[merry gardens]

That my dd needed to continue to attend ps because she is shy and will never learn to stand up for herself if she does not experience or learn to handle some bullying:blink:. This came after I told her one reason I am hsing is ....

Did she ask you the reasons you homeschool before you shared?

[elegantlion]

I went to public school, was bullied a few times, was shy and introverted. I hated school. *It* never taught me how to stand up for myself, never.

 

You know what taught me how to stand up for myself. Being OUT of school, being around people in the real world. Holding a job where decorum and customer service were necessary and you worked with a diverse age of people.

 

I could walk in a school today and not give a flying fig what anyone said or did to me. But I'm 45, I didn't have this confidence at 17. I had an epiphany at age 40, yes age 40, that I was still allowing those inner voices to define my personal self-esteem and image. Do that math, there's a lot of years between 40 and 17. Dh helped, he's a very type A outgoing, don't care what anyone things, ask for forgiveness instead of permission type of guy, but it took years of being with him to look at myself in the mirror and not feel those creeping doubts of unworthiness.

 

Tell your sister to stuff it, this is your dd, and you'll raise her the way you want. If she'd like an article on the lasting affects of having your esteem dragged through the mud at various time over a 13 year education, I'll write one up for her. (see- I'm very assertive now):D

[SCMommaof2]

This is ONE of TWO of many reasons we pulled our children out of PS!

 

ONE:A classmate of my son kept calling him and his team cheaters and losers (he was on a team with his friends he's been playing baseball & football with for 5 years), and started cussing at my son. Well, he shoves my son & my son punches him in the nose & breaks his nose. **We have always taught our kids NOT to start a fight, but to ALWAYS stand up for ourselves** The principal called, and he was visibly upset when I reached the school. DO YOU KNOW, she had the audacity to get down at my son's level at the desk he was sitting in and started banging her hand on the desk telling him that he was WRONG & that that sort of behavior would NOT be tolerated! WELL, I am on PTO Board (at this time) and was SHOCKED!! The veins were popping out of her neck and the VP was standing right there, and I think we both had this look of "what the hay is going on" on our face. She got right in my face and said "We don't have a bullying problem at this school". Even though we had 2 witnesses as to what happened (one being a fellow teacher), he still got suspended.

 

TWO: (*Quick Background*...My son is ADHD. His K5 year started horribly, his teacher knew we were going through medications to help him with his overactivity at school. Long story short, teacher kept a journal on how BAD Noah was, we were constatly in the Principal-different Princ at time-, teacher has to have emergency surgery, we have the BEST long term sub from late Sept-beginning of May! His behavior improved overnight & she knew what made him "tick". He had her in 1st grade also, did superbly! Come 2nd grade, terrible teacher again. He would shut down in this class b/c it was not interactive. He tests VERY well, but gets bored in the classroom and his grades started to suffer. He tested into Gifted Program but the Teacher has to give a recommendation, which she obviously did not recommend him for. Well, we had a meeting with the VP (who is the current Principal from number one), and says that "even though he can test well, we just have to accept that maybe he just an AVERAGE student and can only perform average work". Well, we made it through second grade, and Third Grade was good. I liked his teacher, but with 27 kids in a class, it was a little much. And then NUMBER ONE (from up top) happened.....)

 

We had enough, so asked God to help up make a decision if we needed to move to another district or make another decision. I was partially homeschooled, so it just "clicked" one day and we haven't looked back!!

[shanvan]

Well, I have a teaching degree and I support your decision. So there, we cancel each other out. :D

 

:iagree:and I have a teaching degree too, so there!

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

She has a teaching degree, but has she actually taught in a classroom? Has she had to personally deal with a child who is being bullied? And how is she missing all the news stories about kids being bullied hurting themselves?

[thefragile7393]

That my dd needed to continue to attend ps because she is shy and will never learn to stand up for herself if she does not experience or learn to handle some bullying:blink:. This came after I told her one reason I am hsing is because of the experience we had last year with a girl at her class picking on her because she knew dd was shy and will not speak up among other reasons. So her logic is to let my child get bullied to learn how to handle life? How sad is this thinking.

Yeah that experience really did well for me! I was a huge introvert after my experiences and remained that way through my first stint in college. Those incidents traumatized me horribly. I begged my mom to homeschool me and she refused, saying I had to learn how to deal with things. :glare:

[mom2scouts]

I always wonder why people think that being treated badly will teach shy children to stand up for themselves. We've seen enough times already that those children often take it and take it for years until they are either emotionally harmed or finally learn to stand up for themselves by bringing a gun to school.

 

My son is shy and took some abuse when he was in school. Interestingly, I have noticed him becoming more and more outgoing and confident since we started homeschooling. I dropped him off at his first overnight camp this week and within minutes he had walked over to join into a ball game that was going on outside his cabin and talked to another boy. That would not have happened a couple of years ago.

[Dmmetler]

I have a teaching degree too, and I say she's all wet :). Besides, my DD has had more than enough experiences, sadly, in extracurricular activities and homeschool groups with kids who just plain aren't nice to learn that those folks are out there. The difference is, now, she has the power to decide whether the activity is worth continuing, so she knows it's her CHOICE whether to put up with a situation or not, because I'm not going to make her stay if she's being treated badly. Last year, when there was a serious bully in her jazz class, DD was the one child who was willing to stand up to the bully and tell her that it wasn't right to pick on DD's friends. She was also the one child who was homeschooled.

[elegantlion]

Okay, I did it. I hesitantly share this, but it's my story. Feel free to share. Words have lasting consequences for many. I was one of them.

 

http://elegantlion.blogspot.com/2012/06/lasting-effects-of-words-of-bully.html

[freesia]

I have a teaching degree and taught in schools for a decade--public and private. I say she's wrong. That makes 4 of us "experts.":D

[thefragile7393]

Okay, I did it. I hesitantly share this, but it's my story. Feel free to share. Words have lasting consequences for many. I was one of them.

 

http://elegantlion.blogspot.com/2012/06/lasting-effects-of-words-of-bully.html

Holy cow. You have so many thoughts and phrases that describe what I went through.....at school, at home....body issues, I went through the hair stuff.....wow.

[DawnM]

I worked for 17 years in public education. I can attest to ALL students being fully "socialized" and outgoing and well adjusted. :001_tt2::lol:

 

She has a teaching degree, but has she actually taught in a classroom? Has she had to personally deal with a child who is being bullied? And how is she missing all the news stories about kids being bullied hurting themselves?

[SpecialClassical]

My daughter was shy, very shy. In kindergarten she did eventually come out of her shell- but there were only 9 children and she was still shy outside of that classroom! We pulled her out after 1st grade and she slowly built confidence to handle new situations with new people. I believe she would be a much less confident person if we left her in school. My husband, a close friend, and I were all introverts and not one of us felt our traditional school experience was helpful in addressing our challenges. She's your child and you are doing what is best for her. :)

[melbotoast]

Okay, I did it. I hesitantly share this, but it's my story. Feel free to share. Words have lasting consequences for many. I was one of them.

 

http://elegantlion.blogspot.com/2012/06/lasting-effects-of-words-of-bully.html

 

:iagree:Thank you for sharing.

[Mommy22alyns]

Same, um... CRAP, different day. :glare:

[readinmom]

I teach and that theory is warped beyond belief! I was shy all the way through most of high school, eventually finding my niche with music. I developed a great set of friends who liked me for me. Not once in a classroom did I ever learn that set of "values" that your sister says your dd will learn and benefit from. I overcame my shyness when it was the right time.

 

I don't know your dd, but I respect her for who and what she is right now. Sitting in a public school classroom is not going to be the end all of her experiences in life.

 

Some kids thrive in public school, some don't. Some kids thrive in private school, some don't. Some kids thrive in homeschooling, some don't. I choose what is best for each of my dc individually. Yes, I am a homeschooling public teacher!

 

You are the one that knows what is best for your dd. Be confident in the fact that you have made the right choices for her.

[NittanyJen]

Okay, I did it. I hesitantly share this, but it's my story. Feel free to share. Words have lasting consequences for many. I was one of them.

 

http://elegantlion.blogspot.com/2012/06/lasting-effects-of-words-of-bully.html

 

I've never met you in person, but I've always thought your online persona on the WTM boards is just beautiful :). Maybe I'm biased since I'm a Nittany Lion :D

 

Thank you for sharing; that must have been very difficult. I can actually remember a couple of things that were said to me in the fourth grade by another girl, too. You're right, words can stick.

[raceNzanesmom]

Stand up to your sister, point out to her that you are standing up to her, and then inform her that you will teach your daughter to be like you.

 

Women do have to learn to stand up for themselves, but I don't see any evidence that public school is the place to learn that lesson. It's internal, and it comes from self-confidence and from observing strong women (such as one's own mother) in action over many years.

 

:grouphug:

 

Word.

[RanchGirl]

Stand up to your sister, point out to her that you are standing up to her, and then inform her that you will teach your daughter to be like you.

 

Women do have to learn to stand up for themselves, but I don't see any evidence that public school is the place to learn that lesson. It's internal, and it comes from self-confidence and from observing strong women (such as one's own mother) in action over many years.

 

:grouphug:

 

:iagree: your sister's theory certainly didn't work out for all the bullying victims who have committed suicide. Maybe they just didn't get enough time locked up with their tormentors - maybe mandatory summer school for all students would have prevented their deaths?

[Alphabetika]

I think the main reason my oldest daughter can stand up for herself is that homeschooling allowed her to HAVE a strong sense of herself. You don't get that by being one of the institutional crowd.

[LibraryLover]

I am hopng yopur sister is in her 20's and not her 40's. Do you think she loves and cares about your kids? Is she a parent?

 

Some of my greatest hs supporters are teachers. If she is young, or without a child of her own, and you believe she loves you and your kids, don't give up on her quite yet. You may have many years ahead where you might need each other, and want to share your lives.

 

Sibling relationships change over time, ime.

[Kertie]

That "reasoning" is ridiculous. Sadly, it's the one I hear most often in regards to why h's'ing isn't a good idea. :glare: The idea that one learns how to deal with crap by swimming in it is just...mind-boggling.

 

My response is to snort derisively and ask if they've read Lord of the Flies. :D

[cottonmama]

I was picked on and bullied off and on at different schools, and I definitely lacked self-confidence because of that, and it didn't change until I was out of public schools and into a college full of nerds and geeks where I fit in. :D

 

Not that fitting in is the answer, but a few years of reassurance that people could like me as a nerd is what it took to undo the damage that was done in public school.

 

ETA: Was your sister picked on much as a kid?

[Impish]

Makes about as much sense as saying, "Well, shoot your kid in the foot so they can learn how to heal and deal w/pain." :001_huh::glare:

[Dory]

Makes about as much sense as saying, "Well, shoot your kid in the foot so they can learn how to heal and deal w/pain." :001_huh::glare:

 

:lol::lol:

 

Isn't that the same as the saying "what doesn't kill them will only make them stronger". I always thought that was a load of sh*t

[swellmomma]

:lol::lol:

 

Isn't that the same as the saying "what doesn't kill them will only make them stronger". I always thought that was a load of sh*t

 

Of course it is a load os sh*t the saying isn't for the other person's benefit, it is said to make whomever is saying it feel less guilty.

 

As to the OP, I have heard that many times. Particularily about my boys. That they need to be in ps to a) toughen up and be strong men by learning to fight back when dealing with bullies and b) staying home with mom instead of fighting those bullies will make them soft mommas boys

[redsquirrel]

My MIL told me the same thing, that we need to send the kids to school so they can be bullied and learn how to cope.

 

I told her I schedule a weekly shake down for lunch money.

[Susann]

15 years ago my sweetheart of a FIL only comment to our homeschooling was "But they have to learn how to get beaten up on the playground"! Couldn't believe that was someone's reason against homeschooling. All these years later he's very proud of how the girls have turned out and what they've accomplished. Stay strong in your convictions and do what's right for your family!

[Tammyla]

:banghead:

 

Geeze, and people wonder why children are bullied in school. (I can't believe how many educated adults feel it's a good thing.)

[Tammyla]

:iagree: And a funny memory...

 

Quiet child doesn't want to hug a relative...

 

Mom gently pleads...he's shy...Sister, loudly pipes in...No, he just doesn't like you!;)

 

Yeah it's interesting how some people with teaching degrees suddenly think they are experts in all areas related to human development.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

Someone posted this a week or so back. It's a tongue-in-cheek blog post about how to give your homeschooled kid a public school socialization experience.

[Lisbeth]

INTJ here. 12 yrs of school + college...and yep, still an INTJ.

[Kirch]

Ask your sister for some real life examples of kids who were bullied, learned to stand up for themselves, and didn't suffer any longer-term issues because of the bullying. Betcha she can't think of any. I'm sure there are kids out there who learn to stand up for themselves as a result of bullying, but the impression I get is that they're the exception, not the rule. And then you can give example after example of how bullying has ended in long-term self-esteem issues, eating disorders, depression, violence, suicide, etc.

 

Or, you can just look at her (if she brings it up again) and say, "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard!" :tongue_smilie:

[Kirch]

Of course it is a load os sh*t the saying isn't for the other person's benefit, it is said to make whomever is saying it feel less guilty.

 

I think this is a FABULOUS point.

 

I'd also like to know how this is supposed to square with all the anti-bullying programs and initiatives schools are trying to implement these days. If bullying is such a character-building thing to experience, why are schools frantically trying to stamp it out?

Edited June 30, 2012 by Kirch

[Mothersweets]

Okay, I did it. I hesitantly share this, but it's my story. Feel free to share. Words have lasting consequences for many. I was one of them.

 

http://elegantlion.blogspot.com/2012/06/lasting-effects-of-words-of-bully.html

 

Beautiful post. Thank you for sharing it with us. :grouphug:

[rhrice3]

I have a dd who is now 17 yrs old and will be a senior at a large public school. She was so shy as a child, did not speak until she was 4, had lisps and speech delay, mild acne by middle school, etc. I can not even imagine having ever sent this child to school before she knew who she was!

 

Years of traveling, positive involvement in church groups, dance, summer swim team helped make her the confident young lady she is today. Her father and I always knew that she was special. Young children, animals, the wounded hearts seemed to flock to her. She was a beautiful sweet young girl and served as a link between those that did not fit in and those that did. I have watched her quietly convince and teach girls to dance and express themselves. I have seen her bring girls and boys to the swim team where they made life long friends, etc. She has this heart of love - I always said that she was what I dreamed of being - tall, blonde, graceful, and sweet.

 

When we moved she wanted to go to public school for high school. I was not a huge fan, but once again, she has risen to the top in character. She brings groups together and loves everyone. I think that her spirit might have been broken had she gone to school before now. I think schools and bullying, etc take a toll on young girls way before they did when we were in school. When 3rd graders are more concerned about what they wear then when recess starts - something is topsy turvy.

 

You stand up to your sister, and you know your children and you know best. Why is being bullied at a younger age healthier for a child?

 

Good luck,

ReneeR

[TKDmom]

Okay, I did it. I hesitantly share this, but it's my story. Feel free to share. Words have lasting consequences for many. I was one of them.

 

http://elegantlion.blogspot.com/2012/06/lasting-effects-of-words-of-bully.html

 

Thank you for sharing. I'm 34 and I'm still trying to work out those feelings that resulted from jr high teasing. :glare:

 

It's ridiculous to think that taking children (who haven't really formed their self-image and can't defend themselves) and exposing them to bullying will make them stronger. They need to be built up while they are still forming their self-image so they can deal better with life when they get out into the "real" world. I love seeing how my almost 6th-grader is willing to be her own person and exercise her creativity. I never had the courage to do anything but follow the crowd when I was that age.

[Chelli]

:rant:

 

I hate the bullying argument and I'm an ex-ps teacher as well.

 

My mother (teacher for 30+ years) suggested I put my oldest in school so other children could tease her until she stopped a certain unconscious vocal behavior that she had. :confused:

 

At the time all I said was, "I don't think that's the best solution."

 

Now here is my pat answer for put your kid in school so they can be bullied and become tough (which I've heard from others since my mother):

 

"In your workplace the kind of behavior that children have to put up with in ps is grounds for legal action (assault, sexual harassment, etc.). So you're telling me that I should sacrfice my child's well-being and self-worth so that they can learn to deal with something that as adults we don't have to deal with because we can press criminal charges for someone who treats us that way??? No thanks. I'll just keep them home and teach them law."

 

Snarky? Yes, but telling me to put my child in school so they can be pummeled, both physically and mentally, is a good way to bring out my Mother Bear.

 

:rant: