Another "pass the bean dip"/I'm harming other children by homeschooling my own

[Hilltop]

I've had lots of conversations with anti-homeschoolers, but this was a first for me. We were camping last week and our neighbors were a mom of a two year old boy and her parents. The grandmother was very chatty and wondered why my girls weren't in school. I told her we homeschooled and had the freedom to take vacations when we wanted to.

 

She proceeded to give me a mini-lecture on why I was doing a disservice to other children because I homeschool my children. She said every child deserves a good education and when "smart people like you pull their kids from public schools, the schools get worse and worse". She said if I was set on homeschooling my children that I should be regularly volunteering in my local public school to help other children.

 

I should have asked her if she was volunteering in her local public school (maybe she is), but I didn't think saying that until after the conversation ended.

 

Have you encountered this point of view? How do you reply?

[Jackie in NE]

I've heard of this point of view.... I guess if I encountered it, I'd hope to have a Logic I book nearby to hand to the person!

[Jean in Newcastle]

:smilielol5: Really. I just laugh. Not in a rude sort of way but pretending (hoping?) that they can't be serious. And unless they are relatives, I don't try to explain too much.

[LaxMom]

I usually reply like this :blink:

 

Seriously, there is no way to argue with that kind of "lojik".

[Hilltop]

:smilielol5: Really. I just laugh. Not in a rude sort of way but pretending (hoping?) that they can't be serious. And unless they are relatives, I don't try to explain too much.

 

This is how I responded at the time. Thankfully, our conversation was cut short when her grandson needed her help with something.

[Bang!Zoom!]

I *really* want to type, "with one finger" - but I won't. Oh wait, I did. :D

 

Anyway, just kidding, a little anyway..um...I don't know how to reply.

 

Sorry you ran across a flake out there.

[SunnyDays]

"Unfortunately, I am only responsible for the education of my own child(ren). I'll have to let all the other parents out there be responsible for the education of their own kids."

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Tell her you will teach a class at her home, 7 p.m. every Thursday evening, for all of the parents she can find who are seeking instruction in homeschooling. Tell her you will teach classical education theory and its practical application in phonics, arithmetic, and Latin in a homeschool setting, but she will have to find the students and make all the arrangements.

 

Tell her to come back and talk to you when she finds a dozen parents who are that interested in their child's education beyond what the public school provides.

 

She won't find two such parents.

 

The parents who really care about their child's education and are satisfied with the public school's offerings don't need or want homeschoolers to come and elevate the environment. They are satisfied with their child's educational experience.

 

The parents who care that much about poor academic and moral standards in public school are already doing something about it: They are either homeschooling, or working extra jobs to pay for private school, or getting involved in their child's ps education to be sure he makes the most of it. They aren't daydreaming about the return of the homeschoolers, either.

 

And the rest of the parents don't really care.

 

It is a silly argument.

[Kertie]

She proceeded to give me a mini-lecture on why I was doing a disservice to other children because I homeschool my children. She said every child deserves a good education and when "smart people like you pull their kids from public schools, the schools get worse and worse". She said if I was set on homeschooling my children that I should be regularly volunteering in my local public school to help other children.

 

Have you encountered this point of view? How do you reply?

 

:lol: My favorite part it "smart people like you"!! Awesome. I've heard a variation of it. There are plenty of ways to help other kids without sending my kids to the school down the road.

 

Ignorance is always so...:001_huh: I don't know that here's much to say if they're in soapbox mode. If they were really curious, I might try to explain;).

[Catwoman]

This is how I responded at the time. Thankfully, our conversation was cut short when her grandson needed her help with something.

 

I'll bet you wanted to hug that kid for his perfect timing. :001_smile:

[stripe]

I'd tell her I was too busy breeding in order to increase the average IQ of American children.

 

Just kidding.

 

Maybe say, "Actually I'm really quite stupid."

 

Just kidding.

 

Er? I don't know.

[Tammyla]

:iagree: "You crack me up."

 

:smilielol5: Really. I just laugh. Not in a rude sort of way but pretending (hoping?) that they can't be serious. And unless they are relatives, I don't try to explain too much.

[laundrycrisis]

She proceeded to give me a mini-lecture on why I was doing a disservice to other children because I homeschool my children. She said every child deserves a good education and when "smart people like you pull their kids from public schools, the schools get worse and worse". She said if I was set on homeschooling my children that I should be regularly volunteering in my local public school to help other children.

 

 

I have heard this argument used against both homeschooling and private schooling in areas with social problems. "The people who can afford to not have their kids attend those public schools pull them out, so those schools become dominated by the poorest and most troubled kids and just get worse and worse. " The thinking is that the people who are better off have some kind of social obligation to put their kids into the environment of the troubled schools, as if them being there will somehow make the school better. One person was razzing me about homeschooling, and I pointed out that in some of the schools around here, the gang activity starts as early as 6th grade. Response: "That is not a good reason to remove a child from the school. That is the kind of thinking that makes the schools get even worse." Okey dokey then. Sorry, I'm not not feeling the moral obligation to sacrifice our kids to a dysfunctional school environment on the altar of "social justice". Spending their days in a school that barely functions and exposes them to foolish and violent thinking and behavior isn't going to help them grow into adults that make a positive change in their community.

Edited May 22, 2012 by laundrycrisis

[DawnM]

:tongue_smilie: You can't fix stupid.

[Amy loves Bud]

"Unfortunately, I am only responsible for the education of my own child(ren). I'll have to let all the other parents out there be responsible for the education of their own kids."

 

This, plus I would add that I pay several thousand dollars per year to help them out with that task. :001_smile:

[Mandylubug]

You know, no matter how crazy it sounds. I see her point. I pulled my kids out of a very poor, badly located public school. Our district was/is in a desegregation act due to too many students of one race in this local school. They redrew district lines to include a broader range of families to be districted within this school. However, they drew the lines to include a very wealthy section of our county and outskirt areas like where we live. What ended up happening was all the well off families were already putting their kids in private schools and it didn't improve the standards of this school. The majority of the kids in this school are quite below poverty level, parents work two or three jobs to make ends meet, etc. It is a very poverty stricken area. Well, we bought where we did to be in another school district. When the district lines were moved I was quite upset. The school is in the middle of a very violent and unsafe area. The kind of area that you pray your car doesn't break down in and you wouldn't dare walk about at night with out a gun tucked in your pants. However, I did give the school chance before we decided to homeschool. I was the over-acheiving parent that expected more from my kids. When there was a clear issue that academic struggles weren't being addressed after multiple conversations and volunteer times within the school, I met with the principal. I was told that they struggle so much with remedial learning, assisting these students to complete their homework before they leave school because it doesn't get done at home, and addressing behavior issues; that a child doing somewhat satisfactory was not on their radar. My student struggling to make B's and A's (and working for hours at home) did not have priority. The teachers were overwhelmed with students that didn't grasp the material, that didn't have parents working with them at home. The students that did have parents that cared and worked with them are all pulled out. We have a very active homeschool community and our county offers two different charter schools and there are several private schools. It is unfortunate when you think of the kids that need so much help and I respect the teachers for all the hard work they put forth, but they are fighting a battle that can't be won in the state that district is in and they all know it :(

 

IF more of the redistricted students were in this school, there would be a broader ratio of students with parents that care and are working with their children vs students needing remedial help, etc. I am guilty of the parent that put my student's need first, pulled them out to homeschool and have never looked back. I am not sure what the solution could be but it is evident that the parents that can make a difference in their child's education try and do what they have to.

[Georgiana Daniels]

That's nutty.

 

I'd say something along the lines of not wanting to sacrifice my children, and because I was busy educating my kids, my tax dollars would have to be my contribution to the public schools.

[LaxMom]

Well, I can see the logic there IF they are required to fill X seats. Then, it would be preferable to fill those seats with the children who have capable, involved parents.

 

But that's not the case. The reality is that seats get expanded to accommodate the bodies enrolled. Since that is the reality, keeping my children at home creates less of a burden on the limited resources the school has, which gives the teachers more time and other resources to spend on the kids who really need it.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I have heard this argument used against both homeschooling and private schooling in areas with social problems. "The people who can afford to not have their kids attend those public schools pull them out, so those schools become dominated by the poorest and most troubled kids and just get worse and worse. " The thinking is that the people who are better off have some kind of social obligation to put their kids into the environment of the troubled schools, as if them being there will somehow make the school better. One person was razzing me about homeschooling, and I pointed out that in some of the schools around here, the gang activity starts as early as 6th grade. Response: "That is not a good reason to remove a child from the school. That is the kind of thinking that makes the schools get even worse." Okey dokey then. Sorry, I'm not not feeling the moral obligation to sacrifice our kids to a dysfunctional school environment on the altar of "social justice". Spending their days in a school that barely functions and exposes them to foolish and violent thinking and behavior isn't going to help them grow into adults that make a positive change in their community.

 

So if you knew that drug abuse and violence was occuring at an apartment complex, would that be where you moved? Because the logic of the OP's encounter would suggest that non-adicts and non-domestic abusers have an obligation to elevate the environments of families in those situations.

 

The efforts of my Friends of the Library group at book sales directly funds all of the children's programming at our branch. My family and another homeschool family have been making up a quarter of all of the volunteers for set up and staffing these sales. So our homeschooling schedule directly contributes to the educational offerings in our community.

 

If I were feeling snippish, I might ask the grandmother if she is a school volunteer or tutor.

[elegantlion]

I would have said (thinking of it only afterward of course) "Why thank you, yes my children are very smart."

[Zoo Keeper]

Well, I can see the logic there IF they are required to fill X seats. Then, it would be preferable to fill those seats with the children who have capable, involved parents.

 

But that's not the case. The reality is that seats get expanded to accommodate the bodies enrolled. Since that is the reality, keeping my children at home creates less of a burden on the limited resources the school has, which gives the teachers more time and other resources to spend on the kids who really need it.

 

 

:iagree: Yep.

 

I *am* helping our "underfunded" public school system with my tax dollars. The system doesn't need to consume my children as well.

[KungFuPanda]

Aren't there plenty of active, retired seniors who have more time to volunteer than a homeschooling mom? Perhaps she should rally HER friends. It's a good cause!

[Henriettakittycat]

I'm at the point in my life (homeschooled 12 years, raised one child to age 18 only to lose him in a car crash last year) that when a conversation goes that way I stop and say that my decision isn't open to discussion.

 

I have been told that before. My fave was, "How will the other kids get a chance to pick on him if he's homeschooled?"

[61Keys]

It is so funny to read threads like this about "outsider" opinions.

 

About 40 years ago when my Mom decided to put me in a church run school, she got nearly all the same lines -- I was going to be socially warped, I needed to be a "missionary" in the public schools, I needed certified teachers, I needed state curriculum...you know the list. It sounded silly then. It sounds even sillier now. To me it sounds rather socialistic. In a sense, they are wanting a hand out from you (your credits to help the school, you child to help theirs...).

[TranquilMind]

I've had lots of conversations with anti-homeschoolers, but this was a first for me. We were camping last week and our neighbors were a mom of a two year old boy and her parents. The grandmother was very chatty and wondered why my girls weren't in school. I told her we homeschooled and had the freedom to take vacations when we wanted to.

 

She proceeded to give me a mini-lecture on why I was doing a disservice to other children because I homeschool my children. She said every child deserves a good education and when "smart people like you pull their kids from public schools, the schools get worse and worse". She said if I was set on homeschooling my children that I should be regularly volunteering in my local public school to help other children.

 

I should have asked her if she was volunteering in her local public school (maybe she is), but I didn't think saying that until after the conversation ended.

 

Have you encountered this point of view? How do you reply?

I've encountered it in this subject and in others.

 

Baloney. Give me a good product and I will choose it over my other options.

 

One-size-fits-all schools are not a good product, certainly not for everyone.

 

How selfish of you not to subject your kids to bullying, and low expectations every day, in order to pony up your $10,000 for the rest of the community! (sarcasm).

 

Sensitive about it today as I was just instructed that my daughter is supposed to take another subject OVER AGAIN in which she is currently the top student, because, gee...not offering (certain subject - being delicate in case readers who have a kid in this school) next year because not enough kids of that caliber in the subject. I'm supposed to just warehouse her all year in something she has already mastered.

 

Yeah....we are moving elsewhere or back home. I rue the day I ever agreed to let her go to this school to study this subject.

[Joanne]

I don't sacrifice my kids on the altar of quality government education.

 

Would you pass the tortilla chips?;)

[Wordfairy]

I'm at the point in my life (homeschooled 12 years, raised one child to age 18 only to lose him in a car crash last year) that when a conversation goes that way I stop and say that my decision isn't open to discussion.

 

I have been told that before. My fave was, "How will the other kids get a chance to pick on him if he's homeschooled?"

 

:001_huh: Do people think before they speak anymore?

[TranquilMind]

:iagree: Yep.

 

I *am* helping our "underfunded" public school system with my tax dollars. The system doesn't need to consume my children as well.

 

I'm helping our dismal, failing school system also, with the equivalent of property tax on SEVEN houses. I'm helping a LOT. I have rentals that are all taxed at double rates, just because they are rental properties (raising rental prices, but hey...school doesn't care).

 

So, I want to say, don't EVEN tell me I'm not doing my part. I'm doing my part - and covering for six other homeowners as well - and the schools are still failing.

[Kathryn]

:iagree: Yep.

 

I *am* helping our "underfunded" public school system with my tax dollars. The system doesn't need to consume my children as well.

 

Aren't there plenty of active, retired seniors who have more time to volunteer than a homeschooling mom? Perhaps she should rally HER friends. It's a good cause!

 

:iagree:

[Ellie]

I usually reply like this :blink:

 

Seriously, there is no way to argue with that kind of "lojik".

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

especially about :blink:

[Rivka]

I do take that question seriously, although I wouldn't feel obliged to answer a random stranger about it. I do believe that I have obligations to society that extend beyond my obligations to my own children, and I don't believe that it would be a better world if parents were solely responsible for educating their own kids.

 

However, I don't buy the argument that smart and committed families owe it to society to send their kids to public school. I wrote a whole long thing about it a couple of years back.

[Reflections]

I don't sacrifice my kids on the altar of quality government education.

 

Would you pass the tortilla chips?;)

 

:iagree: THIS! :lol:

[Jen in PA]

My plan for any and all oddball comments on homeschooling is to simply reply "What a fascinating opinion." I figure that should pretty much bring any conversation to a halt.

[mom2scouts]

In my case, I could tell her that I sent my first several children to public school. It didn't do anything to help the other children and wasn't good for my own children. I'll get a much bigger return for my time by homeschooling my children.

[Walking-Iris]

I have heard this point of view before. That there's some sort of brain drain on ps when people homeschool. It's really not rational considering the wide sampling of families that homeschool. People with children who are struggling with LDs or special needs of any sort homeschool just as often as those with "gifted" children and then the reality is that the majority of homeschooled kids are probably just normal, average kids struggling through long division like all the other mere mortals.

[The Girls' Mom]

:glare: Yep, I've gotten that one before. It was when I had to have my dds music teacher sign off on her withdrawl. He was irate because I was pulling his best student out of school, and I was doing a disservice to the rest of the children who looked up to her :glare::glare:. Yes, he actually wanted me to sacrifice my child for the greater good.

[Remudamom]

Gah. I probably would have said "Your children are not my problem." If I was in a good mood that is.

[Carol in Cal.]

I actually think that there is some truth to this. Exemplary families are helpful to have around, whether in school or not. It's silly to argue that point, in my opinion.

 

However, that does not imply that I have an obligation to sacrifice my child for that truth. On the contrary, I have a God-given obligation to raise my child in the best way that I can, with His guidance and my family and child's welfare as my numbers 1 and 2 priorities respectively. Thus if the public schools are bad for my child, I am actually obligated to find a better placement.

 

However, as a citizen I think that supporting education for all serves the public good. And the whole time I was homeschooling I figured that I would serve education in other ways. I formed little coops where I had specific expertise to offer while I was still homeschooling. I tend to give and loan homeschooling books pretty freely. And now that my daughter is in a brick and mortar high school, I volunteer weekly at a local public school that is in a difficult neighborhood. Bonus: It is really fun and satisfying for me!

[Herdingmycats]

"Oh, my, thank you!" She did call you smart, after all.

 

-or-

 

"Oh, yes, I've heard of people doing that. I think I read about a Christian group that moves their families into the inner city to try and be salt and light to those crime ridden communities. I really admire that. Have you ever considered it?" said conversationally, not accusatively.

[Nakia]

Oh how positively dumb.

 

That's right up there with the "Good Christian children should attend public school to spread the gospel of Jesus. If they are homeschooled, they aren't being the light of the world" that I've heard before. No one has actually said it to me (no one's that brave), but I've heard about it being said to others. Ridiculous.

[kalanamak]

 

She proceeded to give me a mini-lecture on why I was doing a disservice to other children because I homeschool my children. She said every child deserves a good education and when "smart people like you pull their kids from public schools, the schools get worse and worse".

 

I'd have laughed and said "What makes you think we are smart people?" and changed the subject or had something urgent to say to my child.

[Word Nerd]

My grandma lamented to me that I did such a good job of homeschooling that it was a shame I wasn't teaching in a real school.

[Crimson Wife]

I hear this all the time, and I always have to point out that parents have NO power to improve the schools these days. Between NCLB, state and the forthcoming national standards, statewide textbook adoptions, politicians from the state legislature on down to the district school board being in the pocket of powerful teachers' unions, and so on parents can do little more than be fundraisers (no, thanks). If the government actually empowered parents to run co-op schools similar to the existing parent-run co-op nursery schools, then maybe this would be a legitimate argument.

 

The district where we lived from 2006-2009 rejected a parent proposal to adopt Singapore Math and instead adopted the horrendous Every Day Math. :glare: One of the leaders of the parents' group ran for the school board but her grassroots effort could not overcome the financial clout of the teacher's union, and their stooge won. :(

[NASDAQ]

"Oh, I'm so difficult that I'm doing the schools a favour by _not_ sending my children."

[momacacia]

That's hilarious!:lol: And what a nice compliment.

 

I would probably have to freely confess to being elitist, particularly when it came to my own children's educations, and that I couldn't possibly give them the individualized education they deserved and try to help the children in public school at the same time.:001_smile:

 

She was giving you a nice compliment, though, in a funny sort of way.

[CroppinIt]

Yes, I have heard this. It's ridiculous.

[ThisIsTheDay]

One of two that I've learned from the boards:

 

A moment of silence, followed by:

 

"Bless your heart,"

 

or

 

"How interesting."

[Perry]

I do believe that I have obligations to society that extend beyond my obligations to my own children, and I don't believe that it would be a better world if parents were solely responsible for educating their own kids.

:iagree:

 

But I don't really believe that my kids' presence will be beneficial to the other kids. When dd2 was in first grade, the teacher told us that dd was going to be her "helper". There was a girl in the class who was causing a bit of trouble, so the teacher paired her up with my dd because she thought my well-behaved dd would rub off on her. :glare: Of course it didn't work, the girl continued to be a PITA, and my dd definitely did not benefit from the arrangement.

 

There are a number of things that the schools could and should do to help the less privileged and struggling kids. There's tons of evidence about "what works." It just baffles me why they won't do it.

[besroma]

 

That's right up there with the "Good Christian children should attend public school to spread the gospel of Jesus. If they are homeschooled, they aren't being the light of the world" that I've heard before. No one has actually said it to me (no one's that brave), but I've heard about it being said to others. Ridiculous.

 

:iagree:

[Maverick_Mom]

Two thoughts in terms of responses:

 

1. My primary responsibility is to my own children, not to anyone else's and especially not at the expense of my own children's education.

 

2. I already support the local school system with my tax dollars without asking them to spend a cent on my children. My children's absence from school also creates smaller class sizes, which I thought was what people wanted. :confused:

 

It's really amazing that it's come to this -- you can't even do the right thing for your own child without someone else complaining that you're making life tough for *their* child without even being anywhere near them!