Neighbor is encroaching upon my parenting, etc (semi-long)

[sheryl]

My 12 yo dd is an only child. Six years ago enters our neighbor "S". She is twice or thrice divorced. She has 2 grown children. A dd who lives in state about 2 hours away and they see each other 4 times a year maybe. Her ds is in the same city about 5 minutes away and he visits 2 times a year. However, her ds expects her babysit (her grandkids) every Saturday as he helps to support her. She works but is barely making ends meet.

 

She is a foster home for dogs. When she arrived she had 6 small breed dogs and 2 cats...that number has dwindled.

 

All was well until this past summer. My dd is becoming more independent and vocal/opinionated. She tried to run away (another thread) a few weeks ago.

 

We've watched her animals a few times while she goes on vacation. My dd loves animals and they have that in common. And, I will say she's always given my dd a little Christmas gift. Well, they started emailing. I went into my dd's email TODAY and she is criticizing me to my neighbor. I had it a few weeks ago when this conversation took place b/t dd and me:

 

dd: You're (referring to me) too hard on me

me: Really?

dd: Even S thinks you are?

me: What makes you say that?

dd: She told me.

 

**** My dd sent her a list of "rules" that my dh and I have for dd. DD thinks they are over the top. I don't think they are. Some are chores, some are expectations, some are behavioral modifications in nature, etc. It was this rule thing that my DD packed her bags and set off...at 12 mind you.....different thread.

 

So, I went over and calmly confronted S. We talked and I repeated the above to her. She did not deny it and said she does think I'm too hard on my dd. I went on to say that I've made it clear once dd finishes school she may visit once in a while. Apparantly my dd makes me out to look like an evil Mom....I won't let her visit, period. No, I told my neighbor. The rule is school first. I also made it VERY CLEAR that I would not allow her to discredit me to my dd.

 

Well, so many things here.

 

1. My neighbor discredited me TO my dd (this happened earlier to me this summer)

2. So this 65 yo woman is going to take my dd's word? The word of a 12 yo vs a woman (me)?

3. What the heck is this woman doing......encroaching upon my family.

4. It's VERY clear they want their own little relationship.

 

This is bad, bad, bad. I do NOT feel comfortable with this at all. Thankfully we've been planning on moving. I just want it to be sooner rather than later.

 

My dd sent an email to S today stating it was "crazy" over here today. Huh? Today, this day, was fine. At the dinner table I asked her to rate today and she scored it a 9/10..............what.

 

I'M UPSET. What am I not getting?

 

This is turning into a neighbor/adult having waaaaaaaaay too much influence on my dd.

 

S made me look bad in the eyes of my dd and my dd lies to my neighbor about ME!

[kalanamak]

Personally, the email would come to a screaming stop.

[Lara in Colo]

No more email

No more contact at all.

 

You are the parent and she is your child, there is no one else in the relationship. (other than Dad)

 

Treat the neighbor like any other bad influence. Age does not matter.

[Pink Fairy]

I have a 12yodd. In her case, I wouldn't allow this to continue. At all. Are you able to control your dd to that extent (I know some kids are almost impossible to control)?

[misidawnrn]

First of all, take a deep breath and you could be the wicked witch of the west or the queen of hearts for all your daughter cares...she is 12. Not many kids at age 12 will say to their parents "Hey, mom and dad, thanks for having rules and making me behave, I appreciate it."

 

Second...no more access to the computer if that is the correspondence that is happening and I would no longer allow DD to visit the neighbor.

 

Third, I would have a sit down family meeting with DH, DD and you and discuss the issues at hand. DD not respecting your parenting/rules and the inappropriateness of the neighbor. Perhaps you can have DD pick her own punishment/reward system and put it in writing. (Even if you do this, it might not work since who wants punished, even if it their own picking).

 

Fourth...you are the parent, what you say in your house goes. DD needs to realize that even if she did talk to the nosey neighbor, you still have rules and they still need to be followed until she moves out.

 

Fifth...BIG HUGS to you. Your DD sounds just like my 20 yo DS when he was 13. I had rules that WILL BE obeyed and his buddy lived with his grandma and had no rules/no curfew/no responsiblities, etc. For my son, the grass was greener on the other side of the fence, so to speak. He kept running away because in his words "I am going to keep running away until you let me go live with my grandma!" My mom is an alcoholic, with no rules, no curfew, and totally thought I was too hard on him, etc...as long as you aren't a bother to her, you are fine. (I know, I grew up there!) Finally, after about 5-6 times of having the cops drag his butt home, I gave up and let him live with my mom. I refused to give her money, buy his clothes, toys, video games, etc if he was living there. He lasted there about 6 months and at age 14 he was living from friends' to friends' couches (friends in the loosest sense of the word), got into drugs and alcohol and lots of trouble. All of his "friends" have no work ethic AT ALL and sleep all day, party all night. This is still the life he is living, won't quit smoking pot, get a job, has a 2 year old daughter that he drags around with him, etc.

 

SO, the moral of this story is...set your rules, make your daughter live with them and don't let anyone tell her or you different. My son now tells me "Mom, I wished I would have stayed with you and lived with your rules, I would probably be a better person now."

[Little Nyssa]

Can you block her email?

[sheryl]

THANKS to each and every one of you. I just don't have time to personalize each one. I just want to cry with appreciation of the posts up to this point.

 

I feel so blessed right now to be validated.

 

To answer a few questions:

 

1. If I told my dd not to email S anymore; she would sneak and still do it.

2. My dd is CONSTANTLY asking to go over to S's house...remember she lives right next to us.

3. If I told her no internet, she'd defy me and still do it.

 

So, what do I do? Put a password on internet? Help here, I'm computer illiterate. Block email? Can you do that?

[Pink Fairy]

There are ways to keep her off the internet--of course I don't know what they are, lol, but I think if I were you I'd be looking into that asap.

 

I did want to say that it sounds like your problems are running a lot deeper than the issues with your neighbor, and I hope you are looking into some professional help for your family. Sorry you are going through this. :grouphug: My brother was an out of control child, so I know it's not always as easy as just saying, "Don't do this," or, "You can't do that."

[sheryl]

Yes, she goes to a counselor. I go too......meaning, I go in and explain if the elapsed time from last visit was good or bad and any new issues to deal with. Then she sees my dd. This counselor is trying to match us with a psychiatrist for my dd. :glare:

[KristinaBreece]

THANKS to each and every one of you. I just don't have time to personalize each one. I just want to cry with appreciation of the posts up to this point.

 

I feel so blessed right now to be validated.

 

To answer a few questions:

 

1. If I told my dd not to email S anymore; she would sneak and still do it.

2. My dd is CONSTANTLY asking to go over to S's house...remember she lives right next to us.

3. If I told her no internet, she'd defy me and still do it.

 

So, what do I do? Put a password on internet? Help here, I'm computer illiterate. Block email? Can you do that?

 

Is the computer yours, or does she have her own? If it's yours, you can set it up with a password so she can only get on the computer if you let her on it. Only let her have computer time when you're right there. If it's hers, I would take it away until she can follow the rules.

[bettyandbob]

T

 

 

1. If I told my dd not to email S anymore; she would sneak and still do it.

2. My dd is CONSTANTLY asking to go over to S's house...remember she lives right next to us.

3. If I told her no internet, she'd defy me and still do it.

 

So, what do I do? Put a password on internet? Help here, I'm computer illiterate. Block email? Can you do that?

 

 

Does your dd have her own computer or smartphone. Remove them.

 

You can put a device on your computer that requires a password for the internet or you can do what I did--unplug and hide the modem for hours at a time. My neighbor disconnected the keyboard to her computer and locked it. These lowtech tactics mean you can't use the computer either, but they do work. You can plug the modem back in for short periods when you want to be online and then hide it again.

 

I'm not sure what I'd do in this situation, but 2 things struck when I read your first post. Your neighbor is very lonely and your dd is 12. 12 year old girls can be unhappy for no apparent reason and they will often blame parents, especially mom. Mom can be perfect and have just taken 12yog to get new (expensive) boots and out to dinner and an unhappy 12yog would still tell a friend 5 minutes later what a mean b** her mother has been all day. I know some families have daughters who don't go through this storm and they won't relate to this at all. But a lot of people have been raked over the coals by a 12yog's moods. I think your neighbor is so desperate for your dd's attention that she can't be your ally while you weather this storm. An ally would be a safe sounding board for your dd to vent against without her agreeing with dd. It's good for kids going through a period like this to have another adult to talk to, but your neighbor may be added fuel to your dd's moods rather than just being a calm listener.

[JennifersLost]

Sounds like time for some serious tomato staking to me. In other words, pick a time period - three weeks to a month, I'd say - and determine that you and dd are going to spend every waking minute together.

 

The computer goes off and gets packed away. Period. You don't use it and she doesn't use it. There is no internet access at all. (Or you can pull it out when she goes to bed - you are not being punished here; the idea is to keep it completely out of her reach, however).

 

She does not go next door. At all. Period.

 

During the month you two spend together, do your best to keep active, but set up quiet times, too. An hour or two a day where you each read, or sew or watch tv or whatever. But you and she are ALWAYS together.

 

Prepare for this the way you'd prepare for a marathon - knowing that there are times you are going to feel like heck and want to quit. Don't quit, however. Your daughter is worth it.

 

It sounds to me like what your daughter is looking for is attention. By tomato staking you are giving her attention in spades - and letting her know that she is worth it to you enough that you are willing to go to great lengths to make sure she grows up right.

 

If she threatens to run away, tell her you'll run away with her. If she sets out, you go, too. If she screams - go ahead and scream with her. The key here is that your eyes, your heart and your attention are firmly on dd for a long period of time.

 

Miracles just may happen during this time.

[momsquared]

The way to get her off the computer is to get rid of the computer for now. I have known parents of teenagers to lock computers in car trunks or whatever. I am really, really psycho about technology use for kids and would gladly send all the computers to a relative or friends house if necessary.

 

As for asking to go there? She can ask all day. Tough cookies. Not going.

 

If the adult keeps making attempts to contact your dd, call the police. Totally reasonable given the inappropriateness of the relationship.

 

:grouphug:

For you. :)

[Mergath]

The whole thing would creep me out. Yes, the neighbor is probably lonely, but still...

 

I agree that the computer needs to go for awhile, or at least become password protected. When another adult is manipulating your dd over the internet, it's time to step in. I would tell the woman to stay the hell away from my family, too.

[Bluegoat]

Maybe I am missing something, but it sounds like you are mad because your neighbour thinks you can be to hard on your daughter, and when your daughter confided in your neighbour, she let your child know this.

 

I am going to take a totally different tack and say that unless you think she is encouraging your daughter in something way more serious than this, it may actually be a really good thing that your daughter has a non-parent adult she can confide in when she is feeling unhappy with her family life and unwilling to talk to you.

 

My sister, who was a very difficult teenager, probably got through her teen years because of the support of adults who were not her parents. My mom was a good mother, but the two of them sparked up in almost every interaction they ever had - they were very much alike was the main issue. But the advice of other people - and not necessarily ones who agreed with my mom all the time - helped keep her from doing a lot of really crazy things, and helped her stay connected.

 

Likely a big part of the reason your daughter trusts this women is that she has no real authority over her, and because she sees things differently than you. Teens already know not all adults agree, that probably isn't a shock to her, and banning her from interacting with your neighbour isn't going to convince her that you are in fact correct. She'll either keep her thoughts to herself, or get advice from her friends.

 

Though your neighbor may now be less likely to share her thoughts with your daughter.

[Sukale]

Does you dd have other girl friends her own age? My dd is friends with the girl B next door. B has told dd that we are hard on her. It didn't bother me much but if B's mom said that I would have been bothered. When a 12 yr old tells a 12 yr old it's been a crazy day could mean she's having a bad hair day, got a zit and had to eat corn flakes because the fruit loops were gone. But an adults idea of a crazy day is so different. I remember 12 being a very hard age for me and my mom. Don't give up on her. Being a good mom will mean not being her friend a lot of the time.((hugs))

 

I would try to get her to hang out with kids not this neighbor. I wouldn't have a problem with my dd going to visit an adult neighbor in general but I sure would have a problem with this one.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Tomato staking.

[kalanamak]

3. If I told her no internet, she'd defy me and still do it.

 

So, what do I do? Put a password on internet? Help here, I'm computer illiterate. Block email? Can you do that?

 

If I had a dangerous tool in the house I couldn't lock up, I'd get rid of it. The next time she tries to run away may be with a "cute boy" who turns out to be a DOM (dirty old man) she met on line. She is 12, and they are grown ups willing to put time and effort into convincing a kid to be stupid.

[Jan in SC]

I think you need to limit contact, but you need to do it in a way she doesn't notice. Find some activities to take up that time. Get her active in lots of different things. Find afternoon sports, or clubs that will keep her active. If she is busy and tired, she will be happier.

[Jennifer in MI]

 

 

Does your dd have her own computer or smartphone. Remove them.

 

You can put a device on your computer that requires a password for the internet or you can do what I did--unplug and hide the modem for hours at a time. My neighbor disconnected the keyboard to her computer and locked it. These lowtech tactics mean you can't use the computer either, but they do work. You can plug the modem back in for short periods when you want to be online and then hide it again.

 

I'm not sure what I'd do in this situation, but 2 things struck when I read your first post. Your neighbor is very lonely and your dd is 12. 12 year old girls can be unhappy for no apparent reason and they will often blame parents, especially mom. Mom can be perfect and have just taken 12yog to get new (expensive) boots and out to dinner and an unhappy 12yog would still tell a friend 5 minutes later what a mean b** her mother has been all day. I know some families have daughters who don't go through this storm and they won't relate to this at all. But a lot of people have been raked over the coals by a 12yog's moods. I think your neighbor is so desperate for your dd's attention that she can't be your ally while you weather this storm. An ally would be a safe sounding board for your dd to vent against without her agreeing with dd. It's good for kids going through a period like this to have another adult to talk to, but your neighbor may be added fuel to your dd's moods rather than just being a calm listener.

 

I did this at. That age to my mom. I loved the attention. My aunts told me how hard my mom was on me and I totally played them.

 

I have no idea what I would do if this were my neighbor though! That is just too close and way too much contact. I saw my aunts once a year, so it wasnt harmful.

:grouphug:

[homeschoolmom]

No more email

No more contact at all.

 

You are the parent and she is your child, there is no one else in the relationship. (other than Dad)

 

Treat the neighbor like any other bad influence. Age does not matter.

 

:iagree:

[Farrar]

Maybe I am missing something, but it sounds like you are mad because your neighbour thinks you can be to hard on your daughter, and when your daughter confided in your neighbour, she let your child know this.

 

I am going to take a totally different tack and say that unless you think she is encouraging your daughter in something way more serious than this, it may actually be a really good thing that your daughter has a non-parent adult she can confide in when she is feeling unhappy with her family life and unwilling to talk to you.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I think your dd probably needs someone other than you to confide in - someone she trusts who has some adult wisdom is probably ideal. Whether that person should be the neighbor, an aunt, a therapist, an art teacher, a coach, or whatever, I think 12 yo is an important time to have that sort of relationship. It's a time of differentiating yourself from your parents, figuring out who you are as an individual. It's a naturally tough time for most kids.

 

No one should undermine you as the parent. That's wrong. And just because it's a tough time doesn't mean dd should be disrespectful either. I'm not saying that. But just validating your dd's emotions, listening to her, commiserating... I think that's all okay. This is your neighbor who is presumably not moving and you're already at odds with your dd. Probably not what you're going to do, but if it were me, I would have a heart to heart with the neighbor and try to draw some boundaries - make it clear that you don't want her to overstep or say anything against you and that your rules aren't going to change, but that you know your dd may confide in her and you understand that.

[WishboneDawn]

When I was a teenager I had an elderly woman who was running a tutoring program I was involved with attempt to move in on my relationship with my parents. She'd encourage me to complain about them and insert her own comments. It didn't go far as I backed away pretty quickly.

 

It WAS predatory though and she did ensnare some other kids in her web.

 

That said, I just mean to alert you that this can be a serious issue but I've no idea if that's what is really going on.

 

If she's going to maintain contact with the neighbour it needs to be on your terms. No more visiting her. The neighbour can come over and visit YOU. No more access to internet capable devices except when strictly monitored. Lots of busy time. Lots of relationship time with the family - board games, nights out, walks together. Lots of bonding stuff so she can feel the value of what she does for the family.

 

Honestly, the neighbour is an issue but people like that can't move in if there isn't some existed hole to fill.

[sheryl]

Thanks for these great replies.

 

To one poster: I'm angry b/c my neighbor discredited me to my dd. We are all different. She may disagree with too much h'school, not enough play or what.ever, but she can run her own life and dh and I will take care of running our family. No input is needed from this neighbor.

 

To another poster: when I was growing up my mom and I frequently visited an older woman next door to us. No problems what so ever. I encourage my only child to have a neighborly relationship with S, but IT.HAS.CROSSED.THE.LINES.OF.APPROPRIATENESS. KWIM? A responsible may not agree with every parenting aspect, but should "validate" that parent to the child....unless of course there is abuse and such which we're not talking about here.

 

I'm actually going to combine and try to implement some tips from about everyone. We just put a password on the pc's. Obviously she will not get this password. I do believe this needs to be addressed in detail and asap with the counselor. And, JanSC and others mentioned too.....keep her occupied with me and with playdates, etc.

 

My only concern with not dealing with it through dialouge is that my dd will never learn of possible mistakes if they aren't pointed out. If she doesn't know what they are and we're always looking the other way then there is no problem to correct.

 

She is mesmerized (sp?) with this woman now and it seems S has usurped my position/standing with my dd.

 

Yes, there are many issues that warrant continued counseling.

 

THANKS!!

[brett_ashley]

Sounds like time for some serious tomato staking to me. In other words, pick a time period - three weeks to a month, I'd say - and determine that you and dd are going to spend every waking minute together.

 

Miracles just may happen during this time.

 

I totally agree. Obviously, my kids aren't old enough to have experience with this, but I have adolescent siblings that need this desperately.

 

Have you read the book Hold on to Your Kids? http://www.amazon.com/Hold-Your-Kids-Parents-Matter/dp/0375760288/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1318469648&sr=8-1

 

It's a secular book that shows the research: no matter what discipline program, parenting strategies, consequences, etc you use with your kids, they only work if you are the primary attachment in their life. You can't force your kids to do what you say unless they have some underlying affection for and love for you as parents. The authors recommend technology detox tomato staking periods, and though the tweens and teens protest loudly (and sometimes violently) the first few days, it makes a big impact and they enjoy themselves despite themselves after all.

[Mergath]

I'm actually going to combine and try to implement some tips from about everyone. We just put a password on the pc's. Obviously she will not get this password.

 

Be careful not to type in the password when she's watching. A computer saavy kid can quite easily watch you type and figure it out. My brother and I did that more than once to my mom. :tongue_smilie:

[HeidiKC]

How did the talk with the neighbor go? Is she reasonable? It didn't sound like she responded to you defensively or with hostility, did she? (Although it sounds like you were probably angry when you talked to her, so she may have seemed defensive if she felt wrongly accused). If she is being at all reasonable, I think I'd have another friendly talk with her and try to explain the situation again - without anger, etc. If you are really worried that you won't be able to keep your daughter from seeing her, I'd think you'd want her on your side.

 

Do you feel comfortable telling this woman a bit about your daughter's difficulties and untruthfulness? Maybe this woman really is trying to be manipulative, but if you think she might be a truly caring (if over-interested and involved) adult rather than someone with an agenda, I'd try to win her over - even when it is really the last thing you want to do. So if she's somewhat reasonable, I might take this approach and nicely explain:

 

- you appreciate her interest in your daughter and while it might be nice for them to have a relationship, there are some problems you've been having with your daughter and your family is going through a rough time. Recently this relationship is making things more difficult.

 

- your daughter isn't always truthful and seems to be playing games with neighbor to gain sympathy and attention. give examples, such as the recent description of how horrible her day was (untrue). examples, without sounding too accusatory and emotional.

 

- you realize that neighbor does not agree with much of your parenting style, but you would appreciate her staying out of it because it is making things harder for your family. You'd appreciate her support for you as a parent and your authority, even if she doesn't support your views on parenting.

 

- you hope she understands that you feel the need to limit the amount of time your daughter spends with her right now since it is causing your daughter to be untruthful or whatever you want to say. Are you ok with her seeing your daughter sometimes? Once/week or something?

 

- suggest that she try to lead discussions in a way that would emphasize the positive things about your relationship with your daughter and to not always believe all of what she is told.

 

Now if the lady is unreasonable, controlling or seems to have an agenda, I'd avoid her at all costs. But I didn't read that into your e-mail. It sounds more like it is your daughter who is making things difficult.

 

Good luck - this sounds difficult! Keep us posted!

[Night Elf]

I had to go back to your previous thread to jog my memory. Did you ever find out if your neighbor had anything to do with your dd trying to run away?

 

Does this woman know you have access to all the emails going between her and your dd?

[swellmomma]

No more email

No more contact at all.

 

You are the parent and she is your child, there is no one else in the relationship. (other than Dad)

 

Treat the neighbor like any other bad influence. Age does not matter.

 

:iagree:

[Amy in NH]

Sounds like time for some serious tomato staking to me. In other words, pick a time period - three weeks to a month, I'd say - and determine that you and dd are going to spend every waking minute together.

 

The computer goes off and gets packed away. Period. You don't use it and she doesn't use it. There is no internet access at all. (Or you can pull it out when she goes to bed - you are not being punished here; the idea is to keep it completely out of her reach, however).

 

She does not go next door. At all. Period.

 

During the month you two spend together, do your best to keep active, but set up quiet times, too. An hour or two a day where you each read, or sew or watch tv or whatever. But you and she are ALWAYS together.

 

Prepare for this the way you'd prepare for a marathon - knowing that there are times you are going to feel like heck and want to quit. Don't quit, however. Your daughter is worth it.

 

It sounds to me like what your daughter is looking for is attention. By tomato staking you are giving her attention in spades - and letting her know that she is worth it to you enough that you are willing to go to great lengths to make sure she grows up right.

 

If she threatens to run away, tell her you'll run away with her. If she sets out, you go, too. If she screams - go ahead and scream with her. The key here is that your eyes, your heart and your attention are firmly on dd for a long period of time.

 

Miracles just may happen during this time.

 

:iagree:

 

Jennifer, you should change your name back to GWOTW.

[Catherine]

You can come down hard on your DD and revoke her email privileges. Your statement earlier tht she would sneak, though, makes me think you'll need to take a different approach, because if it becomes a power struggle between you, and you lose, you've accomplished nothing. And lost ground in the process. I'd probably try to make up some reason that you don't want your daughter to go over there, and invite the woman to your house instead. Invite her often, and make sure she brings an animal when she comes. The power of forbidden people or objects often fades in the light of day. Try to engage the neighbor in conversation about things so that you can learn more about her, and so that you daughter has a chance to learn more.

 

IMO it's very likely she will make a fool of herself pretty quickly when she's on your territory and you are controlling the conversation.

 

I just don't think cutting of contact is likely to work in your situation.

[Lisbeth]

I tend to be really direct with others when it comes to my kids, and I believe in nipping things very cleanly in the bud. My approach would be from the other direction - the neighbor would be told to stop emailing my child or I would get a restraining order. My child would lose email privileges, and I would also employ the 'tomato staking' others mentioned. No way would my neighbor insert herself into our parental authority without a harsh retort! So dicey since she lives next door!

[WishboneDawn]

You can come down hard on your DD and revoke her email privileges. Your statement earlier tht she would sneak, though, makes me think you'll need to take a different approach, because if it becomes a power struggle between you, and you lose, you've accomplished nothing. And lost ground in the process. I'd probably try to make up some reason that you don't want your daughter to go over there, and invite the woman to your house instead. Invite her often, and make sure she brings an animal when she comes. The power of forbidden people or objects often fades in the light of day. Try to engage the neighbor in conversation about things so that you can learn more about her, and so that you daughter has a chance to learn more.

 

IMO it's very likely she will make a fool of herself pretty quickly when she's on your territory and you are controlling the conversation.

 

I just don't think cutting of contact is likely to work in your situation.

 

That's a great idea.:iagree:

[Guest submarines]

The older your DD gets, the more people will discredit you to her face and offer opinions on your parenting--I think it applies to pretty much everyone, not just you personally. It is pretty natural, though maybe not overly polite.

 

From what I can see, and since I don't know your situation aside from this post, your DD is, rightly or wrongly, not very happy about her family life. To the extent that she tried to run away, and is seeing a psychologist. She doesn't feel connected to you right now. The more disconnected she feels, the more she will push herself away from you, obviously.

 

It seems that you didn't find this woman quite objectionable before the incident, otherwise you wouldn't be allowing your DD to visit her and spend time with her.

 

I think it is absolutely amazing for a pre-teen who is unhappy with her family life to have another adult to relate to, and even vent to, if necessary. *Unless* this other adult encourages your DD to do dangerous things, and is otherwise unhealthy in their attachment and / or has other serious issue. From what you say in the post, I can't have a clear picture of the woman, other than she loves animals and doesn't seem to have a super close relationship with her son (but for all we know, she might be talking to him on the phone twice a day). Saying that she thinks you are too strict, even to your DD, doesn't fall into the alarming category, IMO.

 

The big question, here, is actually whether you want to stay connected with your DD during difficult times, or you want to be right. I can't see how taking away your DD's outlet for connection and limiting her computer time is helping her to bond with you.

[mom2denj]

Sounds like time for some serious tomato staking to me. In other words, pick a time period - three weeks to a month, I'd say - and determine that you and dd are going to spend every waking minute together.

 

The computer goes off and gets packed away. Period. You don't use it and she doesn't use it. There is no internet access at all. (Or you can pull it out when she goes to bed - you are not being punished here; the idea is to keep it completely out of her reach, however).

 

She does not go next door. At all. Period.

 

During the month you two spend together, do your best to keep active, but set up quiet times, too. An hour or two a day where you each read, or sew or watch tv or whatever. But you and she are ALWAYS together.

 

Prepare for this the way you'd prepare for a marathon - knowing that there are times you are going to feel like heck and want to quit. Don't quit, however. Your daughter is worth it.

 

It sounds to me like what your daughter is looking for is attention. By tomato staking you are giving her attention in spades - and letting her know that she is worth it to you enough that you are willing to go to great lengths to make sure she grows up right.

 

If she threatens to run away, tell her you'll run away with her. If she sets out, you go, too. If she screams - go ahead and scream with her. The key here is that your eyes, your heart and your attention are firmly on dd for a long period of time.

 

Miracles just may happen during this time.

:iagree:

[jplain]

Not having a 12yo my thoughts should be taken with a shaker of salt. But the book mentioned earlier, Hold on to Your Kids: Why Parents Need to Matter More Than Peers, resonates with me. I think you might find it a very useful read. :)

 

If you think a relationship with this woman is going to continue with or without your approval, I agree with the suggestion to bring it onto your turf. Make her a family friend rather than your daughter's friend. Have her over to your house, frequently. Get to know her well. She'll likely have a harder time criticizing you once she actually knows you.

 

Yes, it's time consuming. It may be out of your comfort zone. (It sure would be out of *my* comfort zone.) It may not be something you really want to do. But do it anyway. In my opinion, parents need to be well acquainted their child's friends, whether they're other kids or adults. If they're kids, it's worthwhile knowing their parents too.

[Laurie4b]

The older your DD gets, the more people will discredit you to her face and offer opinions on your parenting--I think it applies to pretty much everyone, not just you personally. It is pretty natural, though maybe not overly polite.

 

From what I can see, and since I don't know your situation aside from this post, your DD is, rightly or wrongly, not very happy about her family life. To the extent that she tried to run away, and is seeing a psychologist. She doesn't feel connected to you right now. The more disconnected she feels, the more she will push herself away from you, obviously.

 

It seems that you didn't find this woman quite objectionable before the incident, otherwise you wouldn't be allowing your DD to visit her and spend time with her.

 

I think it is absolutely amazing for a pre-teen who is unhappy with her family life to have another adult to relate to, and even vent to, if necessary. *Unless* this other adult encourages your DD to do dangerous things, and is otherwise unhealthy in their attachment and / or has other serious issue. From what you say in the post, I can't have a clear picture of the woman, other than she loves animals and doesn't seem to have a super close relationship with her son (but for all we know, she might be talking to him on the phone twice a day). Saying that she thinks you are too strict, even to your DD, doesn't fall into the alarming category, IMO.

 

The big question, here, is actually whether you want to stay connected with your DD during difficult times, or you want to be right. I can't see how taking away your DD's outlet for connection and limiting her computer time is helping her to bond with you.

 

I think an adult who undermines a parent IS dangerous from mental health point of view. The running away may not have happened without another adult feeding the 12 year old sense of injustice. What if she had just listened and not affirmed? Or listened and affirmed positive things dd said about her family and ignored the negative ones? or listened and asked questions to get at positive things? Or listened and let dd know that a lot of kids feel that way, or most parents have rules like that and not everyone's rules are the same. Or, if she really thought things were bad, she should have talked with the parent, not the dd. That's what a HEALTHY adult would do in the situation minus evidence of abuse.

 

With troubled kids (including kids who have a biological mental illness), if parents agree on the parenting strategy--pretty much no matter what it is (minus abuse), things tend to go well. Disagreement and it goes downhill. Another adult undermining parents would have the same effect as disagreement. I used to be a therapist of troubled kids.

 

I think it is worth considering whether this woman is predatory--emotionally if not sexually. Does this woman associate with adults outside her family? Does she have adult friends? If not, I would totally cut off contact because that, combined with her undermining of you, is a huge red flag. Talk with dd's therapist about it. You may need to get a restraining order.

 

If she does have adult friends, you may be able to go with the "invite her to your territory" suggestion to take the "allure" out of the relationship. I would not allow email, though, and tell the neighbor so. If the neighbor does *anything* that you've asked her not to do, discuss it with the therapist and consider a restraining order.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Laurie4b

[Impish]

THANKS to each and every one of you. I just don't have time to personalize each one. I just want to cry with appreciation of the posts up to this point.

 

I feel so blessed right now to be validated.

 

To answer a few questions:

 

1. If I told my dd not to email S anymore; she would sneak and still do it.

2. My dd is CONSTANTLY asking to go over to S's house...remember she lives right next to us.

3. If I told her no internet, she'd defy me and still do it.

 

So, what do I do? Put a password on internet? Help here, I'm computer illiterate. Block email? Can you do that?

It sounds as if your dd is more in control of the house than you are. Sorry, but the things you list are defiance, and it sounds as though you feel completely helpless to do anything about it.

 

Disable the puter, lock it down, take away the keyboard, whatever needs to be done so that she doesn't have the option of defying you.

 

So what if she constantly asks? 'No' works every time.

 

You have power as the parent. It sounds as if you may need to take it back.

[Guest submarines]

Not having a 12yo my thoughts should be taken with a shaker of salt. But the book mentioned earlier, Hold on to Your Kids: Why Parents Need to Matter More Than Peers, resonates with me. I think you might find it a very useful read. :)

 

If you think a relationship with this woman is going to continue with or without your approval, I agree with the suggestion to bring it onto your turf. Make her a family friend rather than your daughter's friend. Have her over to your house, frequently. Get to know her well. She'll likely have a harder time criticizing you once she actually knows you.

 

Yes, it's time consuming. It may be out of your comfort zone. (It sure would be out of *my* comfort zone.) It may not be something you really want to do. But do it anyway. In my opinion, parents need to be well acquainted their child's friends, whether they're other kids or adults. If they're kids, it's worthwhile knowing their parents too.

 

:iagree: I second the book suggestion and agree with the rest of the post. It would definitely be out of my comfort zone as well, as I'm introverted and don't do well with even potential confrontations or when needing to defend myself, but I'd really try.

[Danestress]

Thanks for these great replies.

 

 

 

 

She is mesmerized (sp?) with this woman now and it seems S has usurped my position/standing with my dd.

 

Yes, there are many issues that warrant continued counseling.

 

THANKS!!

 

I had a similar situation with my oldest son when he was a little older than your DD. He wanted to spend a lot of time at a friend's house, and the friend's mother was very vocal. When it got to where she would tell him things like, "I don't know why your mother is on you about grades. Cs are average and fine, so I don't know why she thinks you have to always have As and Bs!" I got pretty irritated. I called her and told her that I didn't appreciate their negative input. The Mom actually got upset and cried. She didn't mean any harm - just had a big mouth.

 

All that to say that I understand why you feel threatened and I don't disagree with the advice you have gotten. I agree you need to strengthen and build your relationship with your daughter. If you can build love, trust, enjoyment in your relationship, it will be less easily undermined by others. Most kids complain to their friends about parents rules, and the difference here is that this friend is an adult. It is a significant difference. But if your daughter is needing to vent frustration (and I think all kids do) she just found somoene who makes you feel insecure.

 

I also agree that you need to reduce contact with this woman. I would do it gently, though, and try not to look at it as a major threatening situation, even though I understand why it might feel that way. I think if you over react, you will push your daughter further away from you and also confirm what this woman probably thinks - that you are rigid and controlling.

 

I would get your daughter busier. Not with informal "play dates" but with real activities that she really likes. A sports team, art classes, community theater, dance, tennis clinics, co-op class - whatever you can find that she will really enjoy. If you just forbid contact but don't build substitutes into her day, you are going to have an unhappy daughter. I would really focus on the positive here - on trying to help your daughter be busy with things she loves and trying to help her love her home life more.

 

Since we aren't there and there are a million and one things that can't be seen and understood based just on posting, it's hard to say. But is there any way you could actually seek this woman out a little on your own - spend a little time with her, invite her for dinner .... get to know her yourself? Maybe that's a bad idea, but it might help if she's reasonable. I know in my situation, it did help to just be frank with the other adult but to not try to cut that person out of my life. She wasn't all bad - she was just doing something that was causing problems. She's still a friend!

[Bluegoat]

I think an adult who undermines a parent IS dangerous from mental health point of view. The running away may not have happened without another adult feeding the 12 year old sense of injustice. What if she had just listened and not affirmed? Or listened and affirmed positive things dd said about her family and ignored the negative ones? or listened and asked questions to get at positive things? Or listened and let dd know that a lot of kids feel that way, or most parents have rules like that and not everyone's rules are the same. Or, if she really thought things were bad, she should have talked with the parent, not the dd. That's what a HEALTHY adult would do in the situation minus evidence of abuse.

 

With troubled kids (including kids who have a biological mental illness), if parents agree on the parenting strategy--pretty much no matter what it is (minus abuse), things tend to go well. Disagreement and it goes downhill. Another adult undermining parents would have the same effect as disagreement. I used to be a therapist of troubled kids.

 

I think it is worth considering whether this woman is predatory--emotionally if not sexually. Does this woman associate with adults outside her family? Does she have adult friends? If not, I would totally cut off contact because that, combined with her undermining of you, is a huge red flag. Talk with dd's therapist about it. You may need to get a restraining order.

 

If she does have adult friends, you may be able to go with the "invite her to your territory" suggestion to take the "allure" out of the relationship. I would not allow email, though, and tell the neighbor so. If the neighbor does *anything* that you've asked her not to do, discuss it with the therapist and consider a restraining order.

 

I think you are reading way way more into this than was possibly in the post. A restraining order!? Where do you possibly get the idea she is somehow predatory? What indication is there here she would have encouraged running away - she may well have said it was really dumb.

 

Disagreeing is not discrediting. For all we know, the neighbour could be saying "yes, your mom may be a bit hard on you, but she has good reasons" or "no parent gets it perfect". The fact that the daughter reported one comment that seemed to help her issue with her mom during an argument doesn't mean the woman is trying to insinuate herself into some kind of inappropriate role.

 

Kids as they grow up have relationships with adults who are different than their parents. That is a normal, good thing - it will happen at one time or another, and when the child is still living at home is not a bad time for it to happen.

 

There seems to be a lot of fear in this thread that another adult who disagrees with some parenting ideas on a very low level is very threatening, like there are all these people out to steal "our" kids, and we need to control them to a really unhealthy degree.

 

If there could be a bigger issue, it makes sense to look into it and talk to the neighbour. But barring something that is actually substantial, this should not be scary or undermining.

[Renee in NC]

I think you are reading way way more into this than was possibly in the post. A restraining order!? Where do you possibly get the idea she is somehow predatory? What indication is there here she would have encouraged running away - she may well have said it was really dumb.

 

Disagreeing is not discrediting. For all we know, the neighbour could be saying "yes, your mom may be a bit hard on you, but she has good reasons" or "no parent gets it perfect". The fact that the daughter reported one comment that seemed to help her issue with her mom during an argument doesn't mean the woman is trying to insinuate herself into some kind of inappropriate role.

 

Kids as they grow up have relationships with adults who are different than their parents. That is a normal, good thing - it will happen at one time or another, and when the child is still living at home is not a bad time for it to happen.

 

There seems to be a lot of fear in this thread that another adult who disagrees with some parenting ideas on a very low level is very threatening, like there are all these people out to steal "our" kids, and we need to control them to a really unhealthy degree.

 

If there could be a bigger issue, it makes sense to look into it and talk to the neighbour. But barring something that is actually substantial, this should not be scary or undermining.

 

About the bolded above - OP herself has stated that her daughter is less then honest. If this is the case, why take what dd is saying as truth. I would have to have a conversation with the neighbor to see what is going on.

[Laurie4b]

I think you are reading way way more into this than was possibly in the post. A restraining order!? Where do you possibly get the idea she is somehow predatory? What indication is there here she would have encouraged running away - she may well have said it was really dumb.

 

Disagreeing is not discrediting. For all we know, the neighbour could be saying "yes, your mom may be a bit hard on you, but she has good reasons" or "no parent gets it perfect". The fact that the daughter reported one comment that seemed to help her issue with her mom during an argument doesn't mean the woman is trying to insinuate herself into some kind of inappropriate role.

 

Kids as they grow up have relationships with adults who are different than their parents. That is a normal, good thing - it will happen at one time or another, and when the child is still living at home is not a bad time for it to happen.

 

There seems to be a lot of fear in this thread that another adult who disagrees with some parenting ideas on a very low level is very threatening, like there are all these people out to steal "our" kids, and we need to control them to a really unhealthy degree.

 

If there could be a bigger issue, it makes sense to look into it and talk to the neighbour. But barring something that is actually substantial, this should not be scary or undermining.

 

Perhaps we'd agree if you re-read my post. Perhaps you would agree with the part in bold face that IF the neighbor does not have adult relationships outside her family that it is a red flag? (It is--one of the strongest ones for emotional/sexual predators). Perhaps you'd also agree that if an adult you were allowing to have a relationship with your child did things with your child you had asked them not to, that it would be time to consider steps to sever that relationship? In both cases, I used the word IF. I think the "if's" are plausible given what I've read, though not definite. That's what the word IF indicates. The steps in both cases I suggested were to 1) talk first with the therapist and 2) consider a restraining order. The parent has already indicated that she's talked with the neighbor and will talk further. If that doesn't work (and it usually won't if it turns out this person has boundary issues) then a restraining order is the only recourse.

 

I was responding from the perspective of a former mental health provider for troubled kids and their families. I've read the previous thread as well.

 

My kids have tons of relationships with adults outside the family and always have. They are all healthy relationships, though. The adults all have healthy relationships with other adults. None of them would do stuff with our kids that we've asked them not to.

 

Allowing a 12 year old child to have a one-on-one relationship with either 1) an adult who did things you asked her not to with your child or 2) who did not have healthy adult relationships (both of those were "ifs" in my post) is ignoring major red flags and those relationships would have a high probability of damage to the child. That is not at all the same thing as allowing a 12 year old to have relationships with healthy adults.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Laurie4b

[Twilight Woods]

Personally, the email would come to a screaming stop.

 

 

:iagree: as would contact with the neighbor.

[HS Mom in NC]

If someone oversteps with my child, they no longer have access to my child. Done. Are you sure your 12 year old is giving you an accurate account of what this woman actually said?

 

If my child breaks a rule with the computer it's gone for a week on the first offence. No computer at all. The second offence is a month. The third is 6 months. The fourth is "You'll get it back when we have seen consistent good behavior and pleasant attitude from you for quite a while."

 

I have a child (15) who is prone to doing this (her 4th offence.) She has earned back a limited number of websites we have approved. She has not earned back communication yet (email and FB.)

 

I have a husband who is a computer genius. He's worked on Space Station software, computers on military aircraft, etc. He can do all kinds of things to supervise and limit the computer, but the issue is that the child is not respecting the rules, so now the child can lose the privilege entirely.

[Catwoman]

I would like to present the next-door neighbor in a different perspective for a moment.

 

OK, she may have evil intentions, but I don't know that we can place blame on her without knowing a lot more about her.

 

Sheryl has already told us that her dd is defiant and that she will sneak and lie. So how do we know she hasn't been the manipulator in the Neighbor Situation? How do we know she hasn't told this woman horrible stories about her slave-driving, cruel, unjustly-punishing, strict, evil parents?

 

I have a friend who befriended a young teen in her new neighborhood because she was sure this kid was in an abusive home. The stories this girl could tell were very convincing. My friend let the kid spend as much time as possible at her house, and even bought her little gifts because she felt so sorry for her.

 

And the kid was flat-out lying. About everything.

 

Believe me, my friend was no predator; she was just a kind person who was trying to help someone in need. Only the kid didn't "need" anything. It turned out she had a long history of behaviors that were not dissimilar to the things Sheryl's dd has done. The other neighbors were aware of her, because she'd pulled the same tricks on a few of them over the years, but my friend was new to the neighborhood, so she didn't know until the others clued her in.

 

This may not be the case with Sheryl's dd, but I think it's something to consider before we throw the neighbor under the bus. Yes, her level of involvement with Sheryl's dd is excessive, but we don't know if it's because she's pathetic, lonely, evil, or strange... or if she's just a sweet lady who feels sorry for this poor, unloved, sweet little 12 year old girl who has told her how horrible it is for her at home.

 

I'm not suggesting that Sheryl allow her dd contact with the neighbor, because she needs to be the mom, not the other woman, but it might not hurt to sit down with the woman and find out exactly what stories her dd has been feeding her.

 

 

EDITED TO ADD: Sheryl -- I just wanted to let you know that when I said, ... or if she's just a sweet lady who feels sorry for this poor, unloved, sweet little 12 year old girl who has told her how horrible it is for her at home, I absolutely, positively didn't mean that I thought your daughter was unloved. I meant that I thought YOUR NEIGHBOR may be thinking that, based on the things your dd may be telling her about you. I can see that my phrasing was very awkward, and am so upset that I hurt your feelings, because I honestly and truly never meant to do that. There is no question in my mind that you are a loving mom, and your dd is lucky to have you. If anything, you've loved her so much that she has gotten away with things she shouldn't have. If you didn't love her, you wouldn't be so worried about her, and so committed to helping her and working on being closer with her. Again, I PMed you about this, but I wanted to post it here, too, because I messed up, and I wanted to apologize publicly to you, because even though I never intended to upset you, it's clear that I did, and I am so sorry.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Catwoman

[Catwoman]

Just bumping this thread because I edited my last post (directly above) and want to be sure that Sheryl sees it.

[Hedgehog]

Personally, the email would come to a screaming stop.

 

:iagree: As would any access to the Internet. If it were my 12yo, a period of tomato staking would be in order.

 

ETA- I'm sorry you're having to deal with this, OP. For me, not knowing whether you can trust a family member is very difficult and stressful.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Hedgehog

[sheryl]

Hey everyone. I just want to clarify a few points.

 

My neighbor does NOT know that I've taken over dd's email. I actually changed the password to it. For a "season".

 

My dh added a PASSWORD to our computers last night.

 

She does have her own computer, but it's down right now...doesn't work. Let's keep it that way for a looooooong time...say, 20! :tongue_smilie:

 

Night Elf, I don't know if S influenced, in any way, my dd's running away. I've thought about it, but don't know. I'm hoping she did not suggest it, BUT and this is only an IF my dd mentioned the intent any reasonable adult would have contacted the parent/s.

 

My dd is CRITICIZING me to the neighbor. She is saying nasty things and they are untrue. Please remember this for future posts. Example.....in her journal (I know, I know...but once again, my responsibility is to my dd and I MUST read her journal to get inside her brain, otherwise I would not) she made reference that I'm an awful Mom. Quote from journal reads, "....I'm starting to like my neighbor S more than jerky alful (she misspelled this) Mom. I even feel ashamed to call her Mom." This was an entry in the last couple of weeks.

 

Yesterday she sent an email, before our changes were implemented, saying to S, "Dear S, It has been crazy over here to start with. Plus I MISS YOU (she added sad face icon) Turst me I have been trying to have her let me come over but so far impossible!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will keep trying though....(text about a playdates she's had this week) Just curious what is the next day off that you have? I have to go now. Love, dd's name. My dd asks ALL.THE.TIME to go visit this woman. I didn't think it was a problem until last month.

 

Again, this was a conversation I had with my dd last month. I "recited" this excerpt of our conversation below to S. S said, "Yes, I do think you're too hard on dd's name". I asked her to explain and she recited to me what my dd lied to her about. That I wouldn't let her play during a school day. No tv, computer, skype (to my dad, dd's grandfather in Ohio) etc UNTIL AFTER her school work is done. I'm not denying her these things, but b/c of her issues, they are non-existent until her work is done. I believe this is reasonable. She is add/adhd and she would NEVER finish her school if I allowed her these opportunities during school time. Not during break either as she abuses the amount of time and LINGERS back to school. Please know that I was calm, even though I was upset with dd and S, and the conversation was not heated. There were strong opinions. As the Mom I made it clear NOT to discredit me or inferred in a round about way that I would not allow a continued relationship if she did not abide by my wishes.

 

To one of the posters. I don't expect everyone to have the same opinions. NO 2 people are alike. Haven't we learned that on wtm? :tongue_smilie: But, you are wrong with this..... The neighbor took my dd's word/lies and in turn TOLD MY DD THAT I WAS TOO HARD ON DD! THAT IS, IS, IS THE DISCREDITED PART here. We've been neighbors 6 years. We've been in this house 21 years and S 6 years. Surely she has had opportunity to see our parenting style. IF she was concerned about something, she should have addressed it with me and not belittle me in front of my dd.

 

 

dd: You're (referring to me) too hard on me

me: Really?

dd: Even S thinks you are?

me: What makes you say that?

dd: She told me.

 

Original post...

 

So, I went over and calmly confronted S. We talked and I repeated the above to her. She did not deny it and said she does think I'm too hard on my dd. I went on to say that I've made it clear once dd finishes school she may visit once in a while. Apparantly my dd makes me out to look like an evil Mom....I won't let her visit, period. No, I told my neighbor. The rule is school first. I also made it VERY CLEAR that I would not allow her to discredit me to my dd.

 

Well, so many things here.

 

1. My neighbor discredited me TO my dd (this happened earlier to me this summer)

2. So this 65 yo woman is going to take my dd's word? The word of a 12 yo vs a woman (me)?

3. What the heck is this woman doing......encroaching upon my family.

4. It's VERY clear they want their own little relationship.

 

Again, I don't see anything wrong with a another adult being a "friend" to a child. But, it has to be appropriate.

 

Also, my dd has made it clear that S is "waiting" for me to allow her to take my dd when S has to take her dog to the vet. It's been a week and apparantly S has not gone....is she holding out waiting for me to consent my dd go with her? Heavens, no!

 

I'm replying to all of the posts....or I think I am...:lol:

 

 

 

I totally agree. Obviously, my kids aren't old enough to have experience with this, but I have adolescent siblings that need this desperately.

 

Have you read the book Hold on to Your Kids? http://www.amazon.com/Hold-Your-Kids-Parents-Matter/dp/0375760288/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1318469648&sr=8-1

 

It's a secular book that shows the research: no matter what discipline program, parenting strategies, consequences, etc you use with your kids, they only work if you are the primary attachment in their life. You can't force your kids to do what you say unless they have some underlying affection for and love for you as parents. The authors recommend technology detox tomato staking periods, and though the tweens and teens protest loudly (and sometimes violently) the first few days, it makes a big impact and they enjoy themselves despite themselves after all.

 

Thanks for that. A secular book that is "sound" is fine with me and I'll check it out. This is day 1 of tomato staking!

 

Be careful not to type in the password when she's watching. A computer saavy kid can quite easily watch you type and figure it out. My brother and I did that more than once to my mom. :tongue_smilie:

 

Mergath, You are so right and we're on that. Thanks!

 

How did the talk with the neighbor go? Please read all of the above. Is she reasonable? I don't know now. Perhaps with some things yes, and others no. It didn't sound like she responded to you defensively or with hostility, did she? No (Although it sounds like you were probably angry when you talked to her, so she may have seemed defensive if she felt wrongly accused). Ah, no....read the original post. I was upset (inside), but calm on the hotmail. Too me this would be very normal. If she is being at all reasonable, I think I'd have another friendly talk with her and try to explain the situation again - without anger, etc. If you are really worried that you won't be able to keep your daughter from seeing her, I'd think you'd want her on your side.

 

Do you feel comfortable telling this woman a bit about your daughter's difficulties and untruthfulness? Maybe this woman really is trying to be manipulative, but if you think she might be a truly caring (if over-interested and involved) adult rather than someone with an agenda, I'd try to win her over - even when it is really the last thing you want to do. So if she's somewhat reasonable, I might take this approach and nicely explain: I have shared some very personal info with S. I could kick myself now for doing that. She has the ball to manipulate in her court. Whether she does/will or not is another story.

 

- you appreciate her interest in your daughter and while it might be nice for them to have a relationship, there are some problems you've been having with your daughter and your family is going through a rough time. Recently this relationship is making things more difficult.

 

- your daughter isn't always truthful and seems to be playing games with neighbor to gain sympathy and attention. give examples, such as the recent description of how horrible her day was (untrue). examples, without sounding too accusatory and emotional.

 

- you realize that neighbor does not agree with much of your parenting style, but you would appreciate her staying out of it because it is making things harder for your family. You'd appreciate her support for you as a parent and your authority, even if she doesn't support your views on parenting.

 

- you hope she understands that you feel the need to limit the amount of time your daughter spends with her right now since it is causing your daughter to be untruthful or whatever you want to say. Are you ok with her seeing your daughter sometimes? Once/week or something?

 

- suggest that she try to lead discussions in a way that would emphasize the positive things about your relationship with your daughter and to not always believe all of what she is told.

 

Now if the lady is unreasonable, controlling or seems to have an agenda, I'd avoid her at all costs. But I didn't read that into your e-mail. It sounds more like it is your daughter who is making things difficult.

 

Good luck - this sounds difficult! Keep us posted!

 

Thanks for your input. I just need to give it more time to see what unfolds.

 

I had to go back to your previous thread to jog my memory. Did you ever find out if your neighbor had anything to do with your dd trying to run away?

 

Does this woman know you have access to all the emails going between her and your dd?

 

Beth, see above! :001_smile:

[goldberry]

I agree that some kids really benefit from having an adult/older confidant to share with. The issue is that person has to be a positive influence and NOT a negative one. So I agree with those who say the neighbor has to go from the relationship.

 

OP, is there anyone else, adult/older that you could engage as a mentor for your DD to possibly fill that need? Someone you could trust to be a listening ear, but not undermine you?