S/O What if you DON'T provide school supplies?

[zaichiki]

If Hobbes couldn't find his yellow pencil (not a surprise - he had lost most things by the end of the year) he borrowed one from a friend. It wasn't hard.

 

Laura

 

My ds did that too. And loaned stuff... in fact several kids made sure they had a few of certain coveted items so they had some to lend out to friends.

[Dmmetler]

When I was a teacher, I can tell you what happened-the teacher would be at Walmart, buying the supplies she actually needs that parents didn't send in, because the school didn't budget money for them. I spent an average of 1k a year on my classroom, and while I didn't object to things like instruments or a Music K-8 subscription so I got new music to use in the class, it really grated to have kids dropped off in cars that were better than mine who never had a pencil to use in class.

[Haiku]

However, if you can afford them, why NOT buy them?

 

Well, I stated in the other thread that I spent the first two years my dd17 was in school (she started ps in 6th) buying a ridiculously long list of supplies, most of which she either never used/never saw again or saw only the teacher use. I don't think it's my job to buy the teacher's supplies, quite frankly. I know that teachers invest a lot of their personal money into their jobs; I get that. Making parents pick up the slack for the school shirking its responsibility is not the right answer.

 

Also, lots of people have kids who aren't in K or 1st. My dd is 17. She knows what types of supplies she actually uses, and she has distinct preferences. I buy what she uses.

 

I don't refuse to buy supplies. I refuse to buy overpriced supplies or supplies that my dd won't get use/benefit from.

 

Tara

[Haiku]

if you were a teacher and the school district didn't provide much other than paper and pencils, what would you do?

 

Teach with those materials. Honestly, I educate my kids with little more than paper and pencils. We do school in our dining room. We have a few religious tapestries on the walls, and that's it. Schoolrooms don't need to look like circuses. I go into some of these classrooms and nearly get ADD just from all the junk that's on the walls and strewn about the room. I'm not trying to be scornful or mean. I just seriously think that "less is more" in many respects when it comes to education.

 

Tara

[kathkath]

My first day of first grade picture includes me holding a roll of paper towels and a box of tissues. This is not new.

[Dmmetler]

Teach with those materials. Honestly, I educate my kids with little more than paper and pencils. We do school in our dining room. We have a few religious tapestries on the walls, and that's it. Schoolrooms don't need to look like circuses. I go into some of these classrooms and nearly get ADD just from all the junk that's on the walls and strewn about the room. I'm not trying to be scornful or mean. I just seriously think that "less is more" in many respects when it comes to education.

 

Tara

 

 

That's assuming they provide pencils and paper! My school didn't.

 

I would also argue that it's very, very difficult to have a good music program without instruments, recordings, and sheet music, a good science program without lab equipment, a good PE program without sports equipment, a good history/geography program without books, maps and globes, or a good LA program without classroom library books. And THOSE are the kinds of things that I was buying for my classroom, as were my colleagues, because the schools didn't provide anything beyond the basic curriculum from the publisher. Math was the exception-we had every expensive manipulative, game, and frill in the book, but often not a decent, solid BOOK to start with!

 

It's not that the district wasn't spending money-but that they were spending it in the wrong place. I don't think we really needed a separate computer lab for kids do to Fast ForeWord reading, for example (just the name made me cringe)-but I do think that it's tough for 1st graders to learn about magnetism without actually...gasp...playing with magnets, and it's very difficult to meet a stated requirement of learning basic instrument skills without musical instruments!

[Haiku]

That's assuming they provide pencils and paper! My school didn't.

 

I was responding to someone who asked what I would do if I taught at a school that provided little more than paper and pencils. ;)

 

If I needed musical instruments and maps and magnets to meet state standards and the school refused to provide them, I would probably inform the school that I wouldn't be teaching these things. And notify the local media. Honestly, and I say this with respect for teachers, if schools know that teachers will buy these materials, what incentive do they have to provide them?

 

Tara

[FiveOaksAcademy]

I was responding to someone who asked what I would do if I taught at a school that provided little more than paper and pencils. ;)

 

If I needed musical instruments and maps and magnets to meet state standards and the school refused to provide them, I would probably inform the school that I wouldn't be teaching these things. And notify the local media. Honestly, and I say this with respect for teachers, if schools know that teachers will buy these materials, what incentive do they have to provide them?

 

Tara

 

:iagree: And :iagree: with everything else you have said!!

Edited August 15, 2011 by FiveOaksAcademy

[angela in ohio]

When dh taught, it meant that he would end up buying them. There was no money for supplies from the school. At one school the PTO gave the teachers a bit of money, and that was very helpful.

 

He also bought coats for the kids who had to share them with siblings, shoes and socks for the kids with giant holes that let wnow come though, bags of groceries for kids whose families were starving. Schools/teachers are one of the last lines of defense for those on the edge in this world.

 

Do some teachers/schools get carried away and ask for too much? Of course, but in most schools around here (dc and I peruse the lists posted at the local stores for amusement,) it's a reasonable list. They are the things we used to bring without being told. My mom just knew I needed pencils, glue, etc., and bought them for me without being told.

[unsinkable]

What kind of things did he make?

 

I am not Rosie, but I have shared before that at my son's private high school some of the teachers have basically written their own programs (some math and science courses) and rarely use the textbooks.

 

The boys have to take a statewide test at the end of each science and math course and the school's pass rate is phenomenally high.

Edited August 15, 2011 by unsinkable

[Tammyla]

*Locally, they pool all the supplies and the teachers distribute them.

 

 

*They have so many supplies, they pay $$$ to store them in storage facilities.

 

 

*Many parents complain their family/kids get short changed.

[FO4UR]

:iagree:with TaraTheLiberator

 

 

These things should be supplied by the school district. The per child expense of PS is *outrageous!!!* We can't afford to waste $ as a nation, and we can't afford to waste precious years of a child's life with subpar education. Teachers are in a bad spot, between a rock and a hard place. I dare say, that if we allotted much more $ to the teachers to spend as needed for their own classroom instead of making textbook deals as we do now, there would be a shift. Teachers have a professional degree, and yet are not allowed to make professional decisions. Makes.No.Sense! It's their classroom. Give them basic objectives and a budget, and then give them the freedom and responsibility to meet the objectives.

[mom2scouts]

I went and looked at the school supply list at the school my son would be attending if he weren't homeschooled. It seems they made it shorter and they now put a note saying "these things would be appreciated" before things like tissues, hand sanitizer and ziplock bags. In the past, those things were part of the required list. I wonder if someone complained or if they finally got a clue that many families struggle to get their children ready for school each fall.

[Sahamamama]

:iagree: Only the expenditure per student in this state is over $10,000.

 

:iagree:And here in New Jersey, the average expenditure per student is over $13,000 per year. That price really ought to include crayons. :glare:

[Pretty in Pink]

When I was in school each student was responsible for their own supplies. My parents bought me a pencil case and filled it with crayons, coloring pencils, regular pencils, a bottle of glue, a pack of tissue, a pair of scissors, etc. It stayed in my desk. It was mine. I wouldn't have a problem doing that if my kids we in school.

 

When children don't bring in the supplies on the school's list the teachers either pull from the giant supply pool or purchase the supplies with their own money. That's why the supply lists are so ridiculous to begin with. It is neither the responsibility of other parents or the teacher to provide those supplies, but that's how it goes.

 

I don't understand why teachers don't make more of a fuss when they are put in the position of spending ridiculous amounts of money on their classrooms. Instruments and sheet music should be included in the music curriculum or in the school's budget. There is no way that I would purchase recorders for all of my students.

 

There are resources available to parents who really cannot afford school supplies. I wonder how many don't utilize those resources simply because they know that the school will provide, one way or another.

[Old Dominion Heather]

Many teachers will buy your child the supplies out of her own pocket.

 

That is what I did when I taught. I usually spent about $250 at the beginning of each year buying supplies.

[Amy in NH]

I've only bought 2 boxes of crayons for each of my children for their entire lives! HOW some schools need the things on those lists is BEYOND me! Do we really need a new box of crayons every year? And that much glue?! wondering if they're spending all day with construction paper and scissors! Is that really time well spent?

 

I think a lot of the stuff on the lists is extravagant and wasteful. SNIP What did get used was used WAY inefficiently (a 5-subject notebook was required but only two sections got used and only partly at that). Several of the kids threw away whatever they had left at the end of the year (even scissors)! The waste was sad!

 

We use WAY less at our home. I don't spend any time trying to be efficient, but it happens naturally when you only buy what you use and use what you buy.

 

:iagree:

 

As far as I know, my mother only ever supplied a backpack, notebooks, and pencils when we were in school.

 

We have only bought a couple of boxes of crayons EVER. So the kids don't have brand-new ones each year. My crayon BIN is full of mixed up crayons and even broken pieces that can still be sharpened! They work just fine!

 

I have a gallon bottle of glue. I reuse plastic yogurt lids to pour out a little bit of glue when the kids need some. They use a paintbrush to apply the glue to their paper. I'm going on my 12th year with that gallon bottle, and only used 1/3 of it!

 

We use loose-leaf three-ring notebook paper. It is MUCH less expensive than bound notebooks, and we don't waste the rest of an X-subject notebook when we're finished with a topic.

 

The reason public schools are supposed to work well is because of economies of scale. When buying supplies in bulk, the school district should be able to negotiate a bulk discount. But it sounds like schools are not doing that anymore? Per-pupil cost in our public school district is between 12-15K! I should hope that would cover efficiently-used school supplies.

[Impish]

This is what I have been told by teachers here. The thing is, though, there are a lot of kids whose parents cannot afford that list, and they are made to feel like dirt for it. The teachers have nothing but scorn for those "parents who don't even care enough to send supplies" and they send nasty notes. I have witnessed ridicule, not only of the parents, but of the kids who cannot buy all the supplies. I think they have created a vicious little circle of snobbery around the school supply issue here.

 

I really hate it. It is a bunch of petty little people who make themselves feel better by making poor/poorer people feel worthless. Sometimes, I just want to shake them and scream "who the $#%! do you think you are?! You're no special princess! You live in the exact same backwater hick town as we all do!"

 

But, I don't say that. When I hear that kind of trashy-talking, I usually just say "bless your gracious and charitable little heart, darlin'!" Then, fling a little hex over my shoulder as I walk away. :angry:

:iagree: with everything but the hex :lol: Here, if you didn't pay your text book rental fee, there were threats of not receiving the child's report card. :glare: Not sending the entire list of supplies got you numerous calls home, and notes.

Dh made his own resources, which took weeks per year and he wasn't paid for. He and everyone else who makes/buys extra for their classes take them when they move jobs. Schools have wised up to that and do their best to make teachers leave behind their resources, but people will leave their basics and keep their better secrets.

 

Rosie

Keep the receipts? If you can prove you pd for them, how can the school force someone to allow them to steal?

[Cinder]

It seems to me that asking parents to pay for these things is a way of correcting for dysfunction in the administration of the school system. If the school system genuinely cannot afford to buy teachers the supplies needed, then perhaps the school system needs to find ways to reduce costs.

 

Back before I had kids a co-worker said essentially what you said above. She refused to buy paper towels as part of her dd's school supplies. She did purchase paper, pencils, crayons, etc., but she was ticked that the kids were expected to bring in what she thought the school should provide especially when the district had just bought new football uniforms for the high school.

[Sahamamama]

Just curious... (and trying to avoid a snarky tone...) ...if you were a teacher and the school district didn't provide much other than paper and pencils, what would you do?

 

To answer your question --

 

Firstly, I am a teacher. Secondly, the school district does not, in fact, provide me with paper or pencils. We buy those ourselves.

 

If, as in your scenario, I had to teach using only paper and pencils, I believe we would do quite nicely here, learning to actually read, actually write, and do arithmetic and mathematics. Imagine! We could learn to write using paper and pencils! Imagine! We could work math problems out on paper, using our pencils! We could walk (P.E.) to the free public library, check out fifty books each (250 in our family alone), and read them. We could do research at the library, utilizing the reference section, the reference librarians, and the free Internet access. We could get separate accounts at Khan Academy and other online (free) websites that offer wonderful courses. We could do nature study and elementary science in any of our free public parks and nature preserves.

 

And if we had money for anything other than paper and pencils, we would buy books, not markers and glue sticks.

 

I do wonder, though, how it happens that in these school districts spending $10,000 or $13,000 or $15,000 PER STUDENT, there is "only paper and pencil" to work with? :bigear:

[Murphy101]

I pay $115 a month in school taxes for a school system I do not even use. It would irk me to no end if I had to additionally buy class supplies. The teacher should not have to pay out of pocket either :glare:

 

Teach with those materials. Honestly, I educate my kids with little more than paper and pencils. We do school in our dining room. We have a few religious tapestries on the walls, and that's it. Schoolrooms don't need to look like circuses. I go into some of these classrooms and nearly get ADD just from all the junk that's on the walls and strewn about the room. I'm not trying to be scornful or mean. I just seriously think that "less is more" in many respects when it comes to education.

 

Tara

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

Teachers should refuse.

Until they do, there is no reason for schools to spend differently.

I was responding to someone who asked what I would do if I taught at a school that provided little more than paper and pencils. ;)

 

If I needed musical instruments and maps and magnets to meet state standards and the school refused to provide them, I would probably inform the school that I wouldn't be teaching these things. And notify the local media. Honestly, and I say this with respect for teachers, if schools know that teachers will buy these materials, what incentive do they have to provide them?

 

Tara

[kahlanne]

The thing here is they not only have a long list of supplies but many of the classes charge a small fee along with the school having an overall $30 supply fee. Years wh there was no supply fee but a list to buy. Next they shortened the supply list and charged everyone $30 supply fee. Then it changed again. The supply list you receive before school is short but the first week each teacher Gives you a list of supplies which usually is quite detailed and long. They didn't cut the supply fee out when adding this teacher list btw. Now they have added individual class fees like $5 art, $7.50 computer, $20 springboard, $10 reading, etc. Oh and even though we pay a supply fee, bring supplies, and pay a reading fee, we still have to purchase all the reading books per year.

 

Wanted to add, I also have issues with purchasing for teacher. On our list was 2 packs of four highlighters (elementary only teachers used these), 12 EXPO dry erase markers, and large pack of paperclips per student.

[kahlanne]

Wanted to add a comment about waste. My son had to buy several five subject notebooks in third grade. At the end of the year he had only used a small amount of paper out of the first section of two of them. I kept them and " reused" them to meet fourth grade supply list. However I received a " polite but informative" note from teacher saying we couldn't reuse because all of the paper would not be there. The notebook looked new but had my son's third grade teacher's name scratched through on inside cover. I couldnt believe the nerve. I ended up using item for ds's homeschooling and purchased new. He didn't use even a third of the subjects in either notebook BTW.

[mommaduck]

 

Why quibble over brand names on the list? Have you ever used Rose Art crayons or non Fiskars scissors-they stink!

 

 

 

Yes, I have always used them as a homeschooling parent and they work just fine. Never had a problem. The crayons colour and the scissors cut. They are more affordable, especially if you don't have much money to work with, and I'm quite PO'd that WM isn't carrying any of them this year :glare:

 

When my dsd was in ps it would affect her grades if she didn't bring everything on the list. Some teachers gave extra credit, some teachers docked a grade, some teachers wouldn't allow the child to participate in "fun" stuff.

 

It's really disgusting.

 

It is disgusting. I live in a "ghetto" where parent's break their backs to pay for the school uniforms (I'm pro uniform, but I can see the hardship also). When I was in school, you needed a ruler, pencils, crayons, paste (not glue), paper, a box of tissues, and scissors. We took care of our things. When we ran out, we told our parents so they could replace them. Either schools need to KISS or they need to not punish students (either by grade or by exclusion) that can't afford to bring in supplies (or whatever other issues keep their parents from sending in supplies).

[FaithManor]

In our area, this is why soooooo much is on each list. The school expects those that do, to provide for those that do not. But, the one major caveat is at the high school level. If your parents cannot afford the $125.00 graphing calculator (and no, they do not keep extras for the kids to use or rent) you cannot take college prep maths. They have no mercy for this. Also, for high school art - when they have a teacher - quite often the list is VERY expensive...specialty brushes, paints, canvases, etc. and so that becomes a class for the "haves vs. the have nots". The school also claims it cannot afford to maintain school instruments for students to rent so band is now a have/have not class.

 

I don't think they do much to the children in the younger years, but they do make these hard and fast rules for kids in high school and it does affect their future. Plus, the $476.00 to participate in graduation exercises or otherwise, we'll mail you your diploma thing, really burns my cheese!!!!

 

Faith

[EKS]

However, if you can afford them, why NOT buy them? Why the anger over whether they are communal supplies or individual? Have you ever seen a room of 20-30 Kindergarteners with individual supplies? It is a madhouse-Mrs. Smith, I can't find my yellow, Johnny took my yellowwwwww." They are trying to cram a year of 1st grade level material into these kids in 3 hours and it would take 20 minutes just to get them all the correct crayons if they all had individual supplies.

 

 

 

Maybe it is coming from the same place as the anger over government healthcare.

 

(BTW, I agree with you.)

[5LittleMonkeys]

The last year my oldest went to ps I sent in supplies to get her started with a note telling the teacher that I would provide her replacements throughout the year. I added that I was not willing to provide supplies for the rest of the class. Dd said that for the first week of school every single morning the teacher would go down the list of students calling out who had or had not brought in supplies. Every time she got to my dd's name she would announce that she hadn't brought in supplies and then would tell dd that since we were apparently to poor to purchase our supplies she needed to have me call to make arrangements for donations. Dd was humiliated. Dd didn't tell me this until the end of the week. That Friday morning I took her to school and went to the classroom. When I walked in the teacher's aid was putting supplies into one of 2 huge cabinets. I asked her if they would use all of the supplies during the year and she said no. She said the second cabinet was still full from all the supplies brought in from the previous year. Needless to say I was livid. I decided to by pass the teacher all together and went to the principal's office instead. I asked her if it was the policy to degrade and humiliate students in order to get them to bring in those supplies. Of coarse she said no. I told her that I provided supplies for only my child and that if she was singled out again I would be contacting the local newspaper. The teacher apologized to my dd in front of the class with me and the principal standing there and we didn't have any other problems.

 

I know that is probably an isolated case, at least I would hope it would be. I don't regret that it happened though, as it weighed heavily on the cons side of my 'should I keep my dc in ps' list.

 

In all the years and three different schools my dc attented this was the first time that I got that much grief over not sending in supplies for everyone.

[msjones]

To answer your question --

 

Firstly, I am a teacher. Secondly, the school district does not, in fact, provide me with paper or pencils. We buy those ourselves.

 

If, as in your scenario, I had to teach using only paper and pencils, I believe we would do quite nicely here, learning to actually read, actually write, and do arithmetic and mathematics. Imagine! We could learn to write using paper and pencils! Imagine! We could work math problems out on paper, using our pencils! We could walk (P.E.) to the free public library, check out fifty books each (250 in our family alone), and read them. We could do research at the library, utilizing the reference section, the reference librarians, and the free Internet access. We could get separate accounts at Khan Academy and other online (free) websites that offer wonderful courses. We could do nature study and elementary science in any of our free public parks and nature preserves.

 

And if we had money for anything other than paper and pencils, we would buy books, not markers and glue sticks.

 

I do wonder, though, how it happens that in these school districts spending $10,000 or $13,000 or $15,000 PER STUDENT, there is "only paper and pencil" to work with? :bigear:

 

E-gads. You must have realized from the context of the thread that I meant "if you were a teacher in a public school."

 

The rest of your post is so condescending that I'll just skip it.

 

I believe most public school teachers and parents are doing the best they can. I'll leave it at that.

[justamouse]

To answer your question --

 

Firstly, I am a teacher. Secondly, the school district does not, in fact, provide me with paper or pencils. We buy those ourselves.

 

If, as in your scenario, I had to teach using only paper and pencils, I believe we would do quite nicely here, learning to actually read, actually write, and do arithmetic and mathematics. Imagine! We could learn to write using paper and pencils! Imagine! We could work math problems out on paper, using our pencils! We could walk (P.E.) to the free public library, check out fifty books each (250 in our family alone), and read them. We could do research at the library, utilizing the reference section, the reference librarians, and the free Internet access. We could get separate accounts at Khan Academy and other online (free) websites that offer wonderful courses. We could do nature study and elementary science in any of our free public parks and nature preserves.

 

And if we had money for anything other than paper and pencils, we would buy books, not markers and glue sticks.

 

I do wonder, though, how it happens that in these school districts spending $10,000 or $13,000 or $15,000 PER STUDENT, there is "only paper and pencil" to work with? :bigear:

 

 

Holy bat crackers...you mean, you'd give them an EDUCATION???!!?!!

 

 

 

:D

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

I didn't read the other thread at all, and not even all of this one, LOL. We've had a lot of loooooonnnnnggggg threads lately. My attention span is only good for 3 or 4 pages, LOL.

 

So, just responding to the OP.

 

When my Baby Boy was in public school for a couple of years, I decided to only by him what he would use. I instructed him to keep his supplies in his backpack and if he needed anything else or needed anything replaced, let me know and I'd get it for him instead of asking his teacher.

 

I did this because the previous year I had purchased all the school supplies on that pesky little list, including 10 folders. He got ONE folder for his homework folder all year long. About 3/4 of the way through the school year, it was raggedy and falling apart. I asked the teacher if she could give him one of the other 9 folders I had provided and she said they were all gone.

 

I was furious.

 

I was very young and naive back then and didn't realize that is what happened to the school supplies when you took them in to the school.

 

That was the last time I bothered buying the list of supplies.

 

I put up with a lot of other . . . stuff . . . for one more school year, then I pulled him out. The rest is history. :D

[sleepymommy]

I would send in the supplies requested because we are blessed to have the means to do so. If by sending in extra supplies, we would be helping other kids that could not afford to buy supplies or we would prevent having the teacher from needing to buy for those that didn't have supplies, then I would do so gladly.

 

It's certainly not fair that the school board doesn't allot enough money for the schools to provide the necessary supplies, especially since they are getting plenty of tax dollars to do so. I wouldn't try to change that policy by not sending in supplies though. That just seems to punish the teacher more than the school board.

 

It would be more effective to attend the school board hearings, write letters demanding change, run for a seat on the school board or something else along those lines.

[Carrie12345]

I must admit I am surprised that so many of you are thinking the ps should provide supplies.

 

 

 

I pay my local school nearly $3,000/yr., along with the rest of my homeschooling neighbors, childless neighbors, private school neighbors, and parents of grown children neighbors, in addition to our ps neighbors.

 

Why? Because all children are legally entitled to a free and appropriate education. I support that concept, philosophically and financially. If that's not what my money is going to be used for, I want it back.

 

(P.S. Yes, I recognize the complexity of the issue, but I find it surprising to see people surprised that most would expect free public education to be, well, free.)

[ZooRho]

Perhaps humans have devolved, but back in the Kennedy era, when I was in early grade school, we each had our own supplies in our own little desk and I never recall ONE problem about a lost whatever. You used them at your desk and they were put away when you were done.

wll I was a little past the Kennedy era when I was in School, but this was my experience as well.

 

I too taught school. I did buy some things for the class but in reality the students had their own supplies-either the school may have supplied it to the poorer kids or they just had them.

 

but a couple of years ago I was at a middle school and seriously I was shocked by the number of kids totally unprepared to learn, by the lack of supplies.

[Mrs Twain]

It is not just the school supplies (though if I were really frugal and shopped around for all of the best deals, I could get them for about $40 per child when I had my kids in ps). There are so many other things you are supposed to pay for and buy to donate at the public school: class parties, books that from the book fairs (multiple per year) which your child has already picked out and wants, art projects that your child has designed for the PTA fundraiser, "bring in a white t-shirt next week for field day", class pictures (two or three times per year), donations for the class basket to be bid on at the big spring PTA fundraiser, tickets for the big spring PTA fundraiser, raffle tickets for the big spring PTA fundraier, donations so your child can participate in the jump-rope-athon as well as the walk-athon, money for field trips or your child can't go, more classroom supplies when they run at out at the middle and toward the end of the year, teachers' gifts for Christmas, teachers' gifts for the end of the year, teachers' birthday gifts... I am probably forgetting some.

 

Homeschooling is a more expensive, but really not that much more than public school in my experience.

[Lady Florida.]

Per child expenditures doesn't just mean the cost of supplies. Remember, there is more to the cost of educating a child than paper, pencils, glue sticks, and crayons. Oh yeah, and books. :D

 

Where does the money come from for salaries not just for teachers, but custodians, clerical staff, administrators, cafeteria workers, and bus drivers? There is also the cost to keep the lights on in each school building, plus heat (or A/C in hot climates). How about telephones and internet service? Yes, internet service should be a part of educating a child in the 21st century. Per child expenditures cover all of the above and more.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if many of the people in this thread complaining about having to buy supplies, would also complain if their property taxes were raised so they wouldn't have to buy supplies. I truly don't understand the "I'll only take care of me and mine" mindset. This isn't snark or sarcasm. I really don't get it.

Edited August 15, 2011 by floridamom

[Impish]

Per child expenditures doesn't just mean the cost of supplies. Remember, there is more to the cost of educating a child than paper, pencils, glue sticks, and crayons. Oh yeah, and books. :D

 

Where does the money come from for salaries not just for teachers, but custodians, clerical staff, administrators, cafeteria workers, and bus drivers? There is also the cost to keep the lights on in each school building, plus heat (or A/C in hot climates). How about telephones and internet service? Yes, internet service should be a part of educating a child in the 21st century. Per child expenditures cover all of the above and more.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if many of the people in this thread complaining about having to buy supplies would also complain if their property taxes were raised so they wouldn't have to buy supplies. I truly don't understand the "I'll only take care of me and mine" mindset. This isn't snark or sarcasm. I really don't get it.

Because so many families are stressed to the max just trying to accomplish that. Having their child ridiculed, threatened with punishment b/c of financial issues is way over the line.

[Julie Smith]

After reading this thread I can say I'm glad that I have no direct connect to the non-homeschooling schools. (private school, public school.....) I can just happily educate my kids and home and not concern myself with this. :001_smile:

[Lady Florida.]

Because so many families are stressed to the max just trying to accomplish that. Having their child ridiculed, threatened with punishment b/c of financial issues is way over the line.

 

But those aren't the people I'm talking about. I'm talking about those who simply refuse even though they are financially capable. And I agree that children should not be made to feel ashamed for not being able to afford it. When I was teaching, supplies were collected from students in such a way that other students never really knew who brought them in and who didn't. And if they didn't, you let it go on the honor system (figuring that if they could they would). Reminders were given, but done in a general way so no one was singled out. I think that's how it should be done.

 

No, I mean the mindset of "I will not help anyone else out even if I can. Too bad if teachers have to buy supplies themselves. Teachers shouldn't be paid better. Schools should pay for all supplies. My taxes should not be raised so schools can buy all supplies."

[LibraryLover]

These threads made me curious about school supply lists in other countries. Just for fun and because I can usually read English ;), I started with New Zealand and found this list, which includes a Kleen Kanteen as well as pencils etc. KK are $$. I wonder if you can subsitute Walmart/Ikea knockoffs, or if they have to be KK. lol :D

 

http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-30974.html

 

I also found some dead kittens, although they were not on a supply list.

 

http://www.ahipara.school.nz/htms/schoolinformation.htm

 

I am so curious now. I'll let you know if I find anything else fun. :)

 

ETA: It's easy to find schools, but thankfully it is not easy to get into school newsletters, which is where the supply lists are. I'm not a good hacker. lol I was curious what school supply lists look like around the world. That would be an interesting coffee table book. The Singapore kids with their cool new books and clean schools, the NZers with their KleenKs, kids is UK and US with their 80 glue sticks, the Canadian kids with their huge array of fat and thin magic markers, the kids in Haiti with a few pieces of chalk and no shoes. :( The world is an interesting place.

Edited August 15, 2011 by LibraryLover

[Mom0012]

Per child expenditures doesn't just mean the cost of supplies. Remember, there is more to the cost of educating a child than paper, pencils, glue sticks, and crayons. Oh yeah, and books. :D

 

Where does the money come from for salaries not just for teachers, but custodians, clerical staff, administrators, cafeteria workers, and bus drivers? There is also the cost to keep the lights on in each school building, plus heat (or A/C in hot climates). How about telephones and internet service? Yes, internet service should be a part of educating a child in the 21st century. Per child expenditures cover all of the above and more.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if many of the people in this thread complaining about having to buy supplies, would also complain if their property taxes were raised so they wouldn't have to buy supplies. I truly don't understand the "I'll only take care of me and mine" mindset. This isn't snark or sarcasm. I really don't get it.

 

Absolutely, I would complain if my property taxes were raised AGAIN, as they have been each year I've lived here even though real estate values have fallen drastically. My RE taxes are $5000 a year and much of that goes to the schools. The school spends the money they are given unwisely. Of course, I do not feel I should have to pay for their waste.

 

This year, our county had a significant surplus. They chose to buy hundreds of "smartboards" instead of putting it towards the major retirement payment that is due in another year. Maybe smartboards are great, but they are not necessary. Now they won't have the money for the retirement fund and my taxes will be raised yet again.

 

But, they have the upper hand. All they have to do is threaten to cut back on art or PE and all the PS parents wind up basically blackmailed into passing their referendums each year. And does that money improve the quality of the education the kids are getting? I don't believe it does. More money does not equal better education. Surely that's obvious by now.

 

Lisa

Edited August 15, 2011 by LisaTheresa

[5KidzRUs]

But those aren't the people I'm talking about. I'm talking about those who simply refuse even though they are financially capable. And I agree that children should not be made to feel ashamed for not being able to afford it. When I was teaching, supplies were collected from students in such a way that other students never really knew who brought them in and who didn't. And if they didn't, you let it go on the honor system (figuring that if they could they would). Reminders were given, but done in a general way so no one was singled out. I think that's how it should be done.

 

No, I mean the mindset of "I will not help anyone else out even if I can. Too bad if teachers have to buy supplies themselves. Teachers shouldn't be paid better. Schools should pay for all supplies. My taxes should not be raised so schools can buy all supplies."

 

 

I think that it needs to be looked at from the top. I can send my child to a nice private school for $500 a month - $6k a year. However, our local PS gets over twice that PLUS an extra couple thousand for each military child. Yet the PS still want teachers and parents to pay for items that should come from their funding. WHERE does the money go? Didnt I just read recently about a school superintendent who received a huge - million$$ - bonus when he retired?

Maybe the teachers should decide how the money is spent.

[kahlanne]

If it was just about the haves being willing to donate then make it a suggestion not a requirement. I have no problem giving to those in need but I do have a problem with someone not only requiring I do so but dictating how much and specifics while punishing my child if I don't. Many times the poor in our area have the same cellphones, clothes, etc that I have as a middle class citizen but I have to pick up the slack because someone said so. Now I am not saying that there aren't those in real need. Matter of fact at the end of the summer our parish has a huge school drive that raises money and collects supplies for people in need. They give out the donations before school so nobody knows who was too poor to purchase their own. It is always extremely successful and optional to us "haves". I know I for one will give more if asked than required.

[FO4UR]

Per child expenditures doesn't just mean the cost of supplies. Remember, there is more to the cost of educating a child than paper, pencils, glue sticks, and crayons. Oh yeah, and books. :D

 

Where does the money come from for salaries not just for teachers, but custodians, clerical staff, administrators, cafeteria workers, and bus drivers? There is also the cost to keep the lights on in each school building, plus heat (or A/C in hot climates). How about telephones and internet service? Yes, internet service should be a part of educating a child in the 21st century. Per child expenditures cover all of the above and more.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if many of the people in this thread complaining about having to buy supplies, would also complain if their property taxes were raised so they wouldn't have to buy supplies. I truly don't understand the "I'll only take care of me and mine" mindset. This isn't snark or sarcasm. I really don't get it.

 

It isn't snark or sarcasm.

 

You present a strawman here. No one is saying we shouldn't have school buildings, or electricity or internet in them. No one is saying we shouldn't hire and pay qualified teachers and bus drivers. We are all aware that these things cost $.

 

The outrage is at the waste. The $$$ spent on stuff that is not needed to educate children....the marriage between textbook companies and the PS's...the smart boards in classrooms that can't afford crayons...

 

If we are paying $10,000 per student, that is $250,000 for a class of 25 students! *Maybe* $50,000 goes to the teacher. I can't believe it takes $200,000 (per classroom..so per building the $$$ is jaw-dropping) to keep the lights on, bus the kids, etc...

 

 

Of course, I am responsible for taking care of me and mine. I can't help others until I cover myself. I won't sacrifice mine for the sake of the greater good. They (my dc) would simply become part of the problem.

[Lady Florida.]

Maybe the teachers should decide how the money is spent.

 

FOR THE WIN!!!! Absolutely yes!

[Carrie12345]

I wouldn't be surprised if many of the people in this thread complaining about having to buy supplies, would also complain if their property taxes were raised so they wouldn't have to buy supplies. I truly don't understand the "I'll only take care of me and mine" mindset. This isn't snark or sarcasm. I really don't get it.

 

Personally, I would welcome higher taxes... if I thought they'd be spent wisely. Having seen my district's budget, I prefer they get their heads out of their butts first!

[Lady Florida.]

You present a strawman here.

 

When previous posters list the amount of per student expenditures in their school systems, it isn't a strawman to address that.

[Impish]

But those aren't the people I'm talking about. I'm talking about those who simply refuse even though they are financially capable. And I agree that children should not be made to feel ashamed for not being able to afford it. When I was teaching, supplies were collected from students in such a way that other students never really knew who brought them in and who didn't. And if they didn't, you let it go on the honor system (figuring that if they could they would). Reminders were given, but done in a general way so no one was singled out. I think that's how it should be done.

 

No, I mean the mindset of "I will not help anyone else out even if I can. Too bad if teachers have to buy supplies themselves. Teachers shouldn't be paid better. Schools should pay for all supplies. My taxes should not be raised so schools can buy all supplies."

People resent being coerced. It would be one thing if a list went out asking for donations of x,y,z, but when its deemed mandatory, its a different situation.

 

People would rather put the money into their families than supplying ridiculous amts of supplies. 10 dozen sharpened pencils? That's nuts. 10 gluesticks per kid? Again, nuts.

 

I still haven't figured out the justification for hundreds of dollars, per child, for text book rentals. They sure as heck aren't replaced every year, so where's that money going?

 

Too many parents feel like they're being used as a cash cow.

[FO4UR]

When previous posters list the amount of per student expenditures in their school systems, it isn't a strawman to address that.

 

The strawman is assuming that the per student expenditure all goes to the basics like the building, teacher's salary, bus drivers...

 

The real issue is the waste.

[Lady Florida.]

I do have a problem with someone not only requiring I do so but dictating how much and specifics while punishing my child if I don't.

 

The first part: By sending your child to public school it is implied that you will agree to the requirements. Just like you agree to the requirements of a private school or your state's homeschool requirements if you choose those options.

 

The second part: I agree that children should not be punished or shamed, and I said that in one of my posts.

[Lady Florida.]

The strawman is assuming that the per student expenditure all goes to the basics like the building, teacher's salary, bus drivers...

 

The real issue is the waste.

 

Did I say it all goes to that? Did I say there was no waste? I said those things need to be considered when looking at per student expenditures. And they do.