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Disappointed in MACHE-stance on Ham


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Titles of seminars at Faith's homeschool conference:

 

"The Psychology of Chocolate - Key to the Homeschooling Parent's Sanity" - presenter - Faith

 

"Brie and Smoked Gouda - An adventure in Agricultural Education" - Faith's DH

 

"How to Teach Baking and other Culinary Delights" - presenters will be: Faith's MIL - Rumcake, Sola Michella - something to do with Oreo Cookies from heaven, Cinnamon Rolls - Quiver of 10, SWB - Flatbreads with mushrooms, fennel, white cheese, egg, bacon, and pepperoni. Tasting is including in the conference. Bring your own bibs, highly recommended.

 

"Teaching Pharmacology the Correct way" - Subtitled, "Why carbohydrates are natural tranquilizers." - SWB

 

"The History of Ethiopia" - Geography through food - Spycar, who better NOT be late with that food!

 

That's all I've come up with so far in my imaginary, perfect, homeschool conference in Columbus.

 

Faith

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Titles of seminars at Faith's homeschool conference:

 

"The Psychology of Chocolate - Key to the Homeschooling Parent's Sanity" - presenter - Faith

 

"Brie and Smoked Gouda - An adventure in Agricultural Education" - Faith's DH

 

"How to Teach Baking and other Culinary Delights" - presenters will be: Faith's MIL - Rumcake, Sola Michella - something to do with Oreo Cookies from heaven, Cinnamon Rolls - Quiver of 10, SWB - Flatbreads with mushrooms, fennel, white cheese, egg, bacon, and pepperoni. Tasting is including in the conference. Bring your own bibs, highly recommended.

 

"Teaching Pharmacology the Correct way" - Subtitled, "Why carbohydrates are natural tranquilizers." - SWB

 

"The History of Ethiopia" - Geography through food - Spycar, who better NOT be late with that food!

 

That's all I've come up with so far in my imaginary, perfect, homeschool conference in Columbus.

 

Faith

 

Something involving beverages.

 

"Mike's, Wine, Tea or Coffee? Start your homeschooling morning on the right foot."

 

:lol:

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Now Linda,

 

I was going to invite Spycar to the convention for the Ethiopian food. He might feel slightly uncomfortable if we break out in a teA discussion. But, maybe we can have him take a nap or something while we have our little discussion.

 

I'm sorry, since I am the conference organizer, I will not arrange a seminar on bikini's and old women because I'm terrified of the visual aids. Some images just don't need to be in my head. It ranks right up there with men and speedos...sorry, just can't do it.

 

But, if we need something controversial, I'm sure that by the time we consume copious amounts of chocolate, rum cake, cookies, cinnamon roles, rum, wine, and fine cheese...we'll be in a fine state for that "teA" seminar which could end up with us being thrown out of our venue. This will definitely give us something to discuss on Monday morning...along with my headache because, mostly, I don't drink except for hot toddy's when I'm sick. You guys will have me in quite a state after three days!!!!

 

Faith

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I agree!!!! I want to walk into a homeschool conference that gives me real world advice on how to homeschool my high schooler. Finding out how to write a transcript ....I need help with that. I need a conference that concentrates on EDUCATION. what science is out there, what math, hands-on, supplies, curriculum......Speakers who can tell us how to teach reading, writing, how to navigate scholarships, college transcripts, how to do school stuff.....

 

We all have something we believe in that someone else doesn't. We can't put that aside for a few hours while we figure out educating our kids?? It's not like anyone there is going to become your new personal best friend and you are forced to go home united at the hip with them. Just let me actually have teacher workshops. When I need parenting advice, marriage, advice, teen advice.....I'll find the appropriate conference/outlet for that. Let my homeschooling conference handle EDUCATION.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I'm not going to brave something that is a sensory nightmare for me for a parenting conference. At their ages we're pretty well set in our parenting ways. I need to know how to tailor my oldest's High School at home to his strengths and weaknesses with an eye to his long term future. He has quite a few challenges to overcome and a 'box' curriculum or a pat answer is just not going to cut it. He wants to go into Meteorology and he will encounter evolution and global warming and viewpoints that he needs to be educated on so that he will know what HE believes. I want him to form his own beliefs - not just mirror ours.

 

I'm an adult. I have critical thinking skills of my own. I can agree to disagree with someone's outlook. I can learn from people I don't - gasp - remotely agree with. In fact I learn a lot from people I don't agree with on some subjects.

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So? Then he can disinvite himself if he doesn't like "diversity." The man is still entitled to his opinion and millions are entitled to disagree.

 

Sorry to take this thread further off topic, but you brought up something I have been struggling to understand.

 

I will try to explain. If I put on a convention and invite speakers, it's my choice to uninvite them if I want to, right? Granted, if I am smart I'm not going to be destabliizing things consistantly, but I still have every right to disinvite whomever I feel like.

 

I think this is something speakers need to keep in mind. They are not God. Being given a platform is a privledge and an honor, and should not be taken for granted. Just because someone is controversial, does not mean that they cannot cross a line into the realm of too controversial and expect exemtion from the consequences.

 

Anyway, I just don't get it. :confused:

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Titles of seminars at Faith's homeschool conference:

 

"The Psychology of Chocolate - Key to the Homeschooling Parent's Sanity" - presenter - Faith

 

"Brie and Smoked Gouda - An adventure in Agricultural Education" - Faith's DH

 

"How to Teach Baking and other Culinary Delights" - presenters will be: Faith's MIL - Rumcake, Sola Michella - something to do with Oreo Cookies from heaven, Cinnamon Rolls - Quiver of 10, SWB - Flatbreads with mushrooms, fennel, white cheese, egg, bacon, and pepperoni. Tasting is including in the conference. Bring your own bibs, highly recommended.

 

"Teaching Pharmacology the Correct way" - Subtitled, "Why carbohydrates are natural tranquilizers." - SWB

 

"The History of Ethiopia" - Geography through food - Spycar, who better NOT be late with that food!

 

That's all I've come up with so far in my imaginary, perfect, homeschool conference in Columbus.

 

Faith

 

Sign me up. I'm coming.

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Doing what? Giving his opinion? I am not saying I agree/diagree/like/dislike Ken Ham. I'd like to see all the nonsense and "disinviting" stop. These conferences draw all kinds of people to them, not just one kind. I think it is ridiculous and rude to disinvite someone simply because they have the audacity to express their opinion.

 

Futher, I find it insulting that as someone who attends conferences, I seem to not be allowed to make my own decision as to which speaker I want to hear or not hear. Someone who doesn't like Ham, will visit another speaker.

 

I only agree with disinviting someone if they are found out as a KKK guy or something equally as horrible, but not because they hold a different opinion and dare to voice it.

 

:iagree:

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No, he's actually not. The time and place weren't appropriate. The homeschool conference is not a church conference. The focus is education, not theology. Ham clearly has a vendeta with Enns and has since the Telling God's Story came out. He used the conference as his personal platform against Enns and that's not appropriate. Hence the dis-invite. He gives enough talks that he certainly can use his own personal speaking engagements to gossip and slam anyone he chooses.

For many homeschooling parents theology and education are not separate; in fact theology may play a huge role in curriculum selection.

 

I am in the camp of not dis-inviting speaker, especially if it is true that he didn't agree to sign something saying he wouldn't critique other speakers or curriculum. I don't see why Ham's comments are any different than when I heard a well known author of science curriculum give his opinions on different math curriculum. He had very strong opinions about which ones were adequate, and yes, there were vendors selling curriculum that were given the thumbs down at the same conference. I don't recall that there was any controversy that followed. You could either take his advice or leave it. If you are in agreement with that particular speaker, you may desire their opinion on other curriculum that they haven't authored. Much in the same way that many of us have followed SWB's suggestions in the WTM.

 

If Ken Ham did in fact present his opinion in a rude manner I would think it inappropriate. I have heard that there is a video from the conference in question out there somewhere, and would love to see it for myself before I formed an opinion. Does anyone have a link?

 

I also wonder if the GHC will be refunding ticket money to people who may have specifically chosen to go to the conference to hear K. Ham. I know that I choose which conference I will attend by who is speaking, and I would be ticked if that changed after I purchased my ticket.

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Sorry to take this thread further off topic, but you brought up something I have been struggling to understand.

 

I will try to explain. If I put on a convention and invite speakers, it's my choice to uninvite them if I want to, right? Granted, if I am smart I'm not going to be destabliizing things consistantly, but I still have every right to disinvite whomever I feel like.

 

I think this is something speakers need to keep in mind. They are not God. Being given a platform is a privledge and an honor, and should not be taken for granted. Just because someone is controversial, does not mean that they cannot cross a line into the realm of too controversial and expect exemtion from the consequences.

 

Anyway, I just don't get it. :confused:

 

Amen. I've seen a lot of people (not here) saying this whole kerfluffle is "violating Ham's right to free speech". Um. No. He had the right to say what he had to say. GHC had the right to hold him to the contract he *voluntarily signed* and disinvite him for what he said that was in violoation of that contract.

 

"Freedom of speech" doesn't equal "no consequences for the things you say."

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I appreciate FaithManor's idea to have her own conference. A friend of mine on the board has mini conferences for herself at Panera. She downloads certain audio talks from various sites, schedules them out, including lesson planning, note taking, etc. She builds a conference specialized for HER homeschool. She does it on a day her hubby is home and can care for the kids. It is MUCH cheaper, caters to HER situation, and gives her time to rejuvenate. This also helps alleviate any of the distractions of kids, curriculum envy, etc. I like the idea so much that I will be doing it myself this summer. I hoped to make it to Philly this year, but I am running our church's VBS which is the following Monday. Given all the hub-bub and the VBS challenge, a day at Panera is on my calendar.

 

Maybe this might be a workable idea for you guys as well? Ones who can't make it or choose not to now.

 

Ultimately, let's all respect our differences and remember it is our differences that allow us to have the best homeschools possible for OUR families. I don't know about you but I was tired of a cookie-cutter education and I am thrilled to give our kids the education I want them to have, not one mandated. It is differences that have made our country great and brought about the greatest innovations and change. Let's UNITE on homeschooling so that we may all continue.

 

Blessings to all: religious and secular! :D

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My apologies for starting this thread, I didn't mean for the topic of Ham being to be hashed over again.

 

Although I did say I don't agree with MACHE's pov, my thoughts were focused more on the fact that another major conference would actually put their two cents in like they did.

 

Also, I was clueless to the fact that there are people running for-profit conferences. I had no idea, and although MACHE is critical of the for-profit conferences, I'm not so sure I see it as a bad thing.

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Amen. I've seen a lot of people (not here) saying this whole kerfluffle is "violating Ham's right to free speech". Um. No. He had the right to say what he had to say. GHC had the right to hold him to the contract he *voluntarily signed* and disinvite him for what he said that was in violoation of that contract.

 

"Freedom of speech" doesn't equal "no consequences for the things you say."

 

:iagree:

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:iagree: I just want a homeschooling conference. I don't want a christian worldview conference or parenting conference...just give me a solid homeschool conference that includes all kinds of christians and seculars and everything in-between and let's just talk about education!

 

Now wouldn't that be nice. Maybe conventions could be divided like this forum. Education on one side, general talk on the other.

 

He's entitled to his opinions; he's not entitled to slam other presenters.

:iagree:

 

 

Titles of seminars at Faith's homeschool conference:

 

"The Psychology of Chocolate - Key to the Homeschooling Parent's Sanity" - presenter - Faith

 

"Brie and Smoked Gouda - An adventure in Agricultural Education" - Faith's DH

 

"How to Teach Baking and other Culinary Delights" - presenters will be: Faith's MIL - Rumcake, Sola Michella - something to do with Oreo Cookies from heaven, Cinnamon Rolls - Quiver of 10, SWB - Flatbreads with mushrooms, fennel, white cheese, egg, bacon, and pepperoni. Tasting is including in the conference. Bring your own bibs, highly recommended.

 

"Teaching Pharmacology the Correct way" - Subtitled, "Why carbohydrates are natural tranquilizers." - SWB

 

"The History of Ethiopia" - Geography through food - Spycar, who better NOT be late with that food!

 

That's all I've come up with so far in my imaginary, perfect, homeschool conference in Columbus.

 

Faith

 

And how about plentiful and free bean dip for all attendees?

 

I think we need to have a talk on how to actually pass the bean dip. Maybe a reenactment of a family get together, complete with bad MILs and opinionated siblings. :D

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:iagree: I just want a homeschooling conference. I don't want a christian worldview conference or parenting conference...just give me a solid homeschool conference that includes all kinds of christians and seculars and everything in-between and let's just talk about education!

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Please!

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Titles of seminars at Faith's homeschool conference:

 

"The Psychology of Chocolate - Key to the Homeschooling Parent's Sanity" - presenter - Faith

 

"Brie and Smoked Gouda - An adventure in Agricultural Education" - Faith's DH

 

"How to Teach Baking and other Culinary Delights" - presenters will be: Faith's MIL - Rumcake, Sola Michella - something to do with Oreo Cookies from heaven, Cinnamon Rolls - Quiver of 10, SWB - Flatbreads with mushrooms, fennel, white cheese, egg, bacon, and pepperoni. Tasting is including in the conference. Bring your own bibs, highly recommended.

 

"Teaching Pharmacology the Correct way" - Subtitled, "Why carbohydrates are natural tranquilizers." - SWB

 

"The History of Ethiopia" - Geography through food - Spycar, who better NOT be late with that food!

 

That's all I've come up with so far in my imaginary, perfect, homeschool conference in Columbus.

 

Faith

 

:lol: Hope none of these will be offered concurrently!

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Not to make this about me, or people like me...:D;) But... try being a non-Christian, non -dogmatic hser on the relaxed spectrum.

 

We got dank in the conference department.

I hold mini-conferences in the Irish pub just down the street from my house. Sometimes it's just me. Edited by nmoira
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I only agree with disinviting someone if they are found out as a KKK guy or something equally as horrible, but not because they hold a different opinion and dare to voice it.

 

What if every lecture at a conference becomes a bash of someone else. Wow, it would be like some boards I know! Perhaps this is just a shot across the bow.

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The Midwest Conference is the only one I have been willing to go to because our state's conference is definitely very narrow in viewpoint.

 

I am saddened by the divisive spirit at many of these kinds of functions.

 

One of these days I'm just going to announce I'll be in Columbus, or Cleveland, or wherever for three days at the Holiday Inn with a reserved conference room. You will be welcome to join me. I'll provide the Godiva Double Chocolate Cheesecake and my mil's rum cake as well as some very fine cheeses. You bring what you want and we'll have a "conference". Bring your viewpoints with you. My faith isn't fragile enough to have to avoid any of you, my fellow WTM'ers. With any luck, SWB will need a break from her crazy life and show up with her favorite wine and some of those marvelous foods she waxes poetic about on her blog. We can shower her with cases of chocolate chips and m & m's so that she can weather the storms of future conventions!

 

As for profit vs. non-profit. I think it's hard for vendors to make money with costs of EVERYTHING, gas, lodging, food, etc. going up. We homeschoolers like our bargains and it costs a lot for these businesses to be exhibitors. When homeschooling was a bit more in its infancy, conventions were places people went to get acquainted with the available curriculums. But, now it's possible to see sample lessons online and with forums such as this, getting reviews from real people who have tried to implement the product, means that one doesn't necessarily have to hold the books in your hands in order to get a feel for whether it will work for your child or not. The cost for me to attend Cincinnati, not including food or the cost of registration, just gas and lodging, would be $277.00. With food an registration, well, it's a rather large chunk of change that I'd rather spend on books. Imagine if I were paying exhibiting fees and paying an employee to man my booth while I spoke, plus that person's lodging and food. How much would I need to sell in order to break even much less turn a profit. I am sure internet business is much, much more profitable.

 

I would think that a narrower scope, smaller crowd type convention would be "money down a hole" for many vendors.

 

Personally, I think Peace Hill Press and my other favorites need to set up inside my nearest Barnes and Nobles. This would make me incredibly giddy which leads to the spending of money, the eating of chocolate, and the drinking of lattes. No conference needed!

 

Faith

 

 

Let me know when and where and I will bring truffles!

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I'll be the one with the non-existent bumper sticker which reads, "I love religious stories, I love unschoolers, I love WTM, I love learning. I am not religious. I am not an unschooler. I am not one who thinks Algebra can be learned the week before my kid decides to take the SAT. I think understanding history is important. Understanding literature matters. It matters what year WWII ended. My agenda is to share all of this with my hsers. "

 

Too much?

 

Smidge wordy ;)

 

:lol:

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LOL I'd attend that. :)

 

I'll be the one with the non-existent bumper sticker which reads, "I love religious stories, I love unschoolers, I love WTM, I love learning. I am not religious. I am not an unschooler. I am not one who thinks Algebra can be learned the week before my kid decides to take the SAT. I think understanding history is important. Understanding literature matters. It matters what year WWII ended. My agenda is to share all of this with my hsers. "

 

Too much?

Love it.

 

And I'll up it with Caramel Temptations.

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Here's an idea. Why not have a nomination and vote?

 

The convention heads can open a form for people to name the top X amount of people they really want to hear.

 

Then they can compile that list to see who pops up the most.

 

If there are too many then they can put out a poll and people can vote for who they want to see, like the top X amount or something.

 

Then they don't have to worry about pleasing everyone because they already have!

 

:)

 

I will say I don't know if it would work logistically, just a meandering thought.

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FWIW, I am not trying to be rude but has anyone else read the 'similar threads' below? :lol::lol::lol:

 

{snerkle} {snort}{giggle} ROTFLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!

 

 

BTW, before the kerfluffle, weren't we talking about an awesome TWTM academically oriented homeschooling convention with actual workshops about teaching? I'd have to go search past threads, but I think even SWB popped in and suggested locations! Please tell me I wasn't dreaming! :D

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{snerkle} {snort}{giggle} ROTFLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!

 

 

BTW, before the kerfluffle, weren't we talking about an awesome TWTM academically oriented homeschooling convention with actual workshops about teaching? I'd have to go search past threads, but I think even SWB popped in and suggested locations! Please tell me I wasn't dreaming! :D

 

Somehow Columbus didn't make the short list. I like Faith's conference better. :D

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I hold mini-conferences in the Irish pub just down the street from my house. Sometimes it's just me.

 

LOL I'd attend that. :)

 

There's an Irish Pub next to the convention center in Greenville. Maybe we wouldn't have had this kerfluffle if more convention speakers had taken advantage of it during the conference. :D (and it was even St. Patrick's Day!)

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I hold mini-conferences in the Irish pub just down the street from my house. Sometimes it's just me.

 

Ummm, so I live near Portland and would l.o.v.e. to attend a conference like that. :D

 

 

Oh, and for a pp who mention the festivus celebration/convention, I do believe that Northern California came up on the short list. I would move heaven and earth to attend. :tongue_smilie:

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ROTFL!! Honestly, I can't believe people haven't taken more advantage of the enormous amount of puns that we could use in this discussion. :tongue_smilie:

 

I haven't read anything about this debate going on, except the few responses above this one.

 

Personally I am anti-ham. I'm vegetarian!

That is my stance on ham. Ham is murder.

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One of these days I'm just going to announce I'll be in Columbus, or Cleveland, or wherever for three days at the Holiday Inn with a reserved conference room. You will be welcome to join me. I'll provide the Godiva Double Chocolate Cheesecake and my mil's rum cake as well as some very fine cheeses. You bring what you want and we'll have a "conference". Bring your viewpoints with you. My faith isn't fragile enough to have to avoid any of you, my fellow WTM'ers. With any luck, SWB will need a break from her crazy life and show up with her favorite wine and some of those marvelous foods she waxes poetic about on her blog. We can shower her with cases of chocolate chips and m & m's so that she can weather the storms of future conventions!

 

Personally, I think Peace Hill Press and my other favorites need to set up inside my nearest Barnes and Nobles. This would make me incredibly giddy which leads to the spending of money, the eating of chocolate, and the drinking of lattes. No conference needed!

 

Faith

 

Count me in :D

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:iagree: I just want a homeschooling conference. I don't want a christian worldview conference or parenting conference...just give me a solid homeschool conference that includes all kinds of christians and seculars and everything in-between and let's just talk about education!

 

Here, here - preferably with chocolate fondue :D

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...I am saddened by the divisive spirit at many of these kinds of functions...

 

...I'll provide the Godiva Double Chocolate Cheesecake and my mil's rum cake as well as some very fine cheeses. You bring what you want and we'll have a "conference". Bring your viewpoints with you. My faith isn't fragile enough to have to avoid any of you, my fellow WTM'ers...

 

Hear! Hear! We used to have a way of rating posts/posters. If you read something and it really resonated with you, you could award the poster "rep" or reputation points.

 

This, my dear, is a rep-worthy post! :D

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Well, let me throw this out there.... there are already "narrow" conferences. So, if you want narrow, go to them.

 

And..... we know that narrow and other cannot peacefully coexist at the same conference. It should work, but it just doesn't. And let's not get into why, that has been done. But it should be accepted as truth and be viewed with reverence. (Moment of silence please).

 

Why aren't there conferences with all of the vendors that aren't at the "narrower" conferences??

 

I do like Faith's conference idea, that sounds like fun. Much more fun than learning how to parent..... and good food too!!! It wouldn't be hard to have say twenty vendors to come and help eat chocolate?? That shouldn't be too expensive. I have seen virtual conferences, but then we can't eat chocolate and see the books.

 

I'm sure there are reasons this would not work. I just can't see it this close to the end of the school year. (Brain is fried). Hey, it took me a decade to figure out why I don't like homeschool conferences...... I went to one, looked at 200 booths, and came out with close to nothing.... kept thinking there was more (there was!). Then all of this. Homeschooling drama. Wish it wasn't true.

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He's entitled to his opinions; he's not entitled to slam other presenters.

 

I agree. It's one thing to say I don't believe in Y/O earth. It's another thing to say I don't believe in Y/O Earth, and I can't believe that Jane Doe is leading all these people astray by teaching it. Or, How can anybody read John Doe's curriculum? It is SO wrong!

 

It's the same thing as you would do in an argument with a spouse. One doesn't say YOU need to do this and such. You say I need you to do such and such. Point the finger at yourself, not at the other person.

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