Shame on churches who "bribe" kids to bring friends.

[Jeanne in MN]

I'm already fed up with umpteen Awana invitations pushing my kids to come to Awana so that their friend's class can win an ice cream party.

 

Today, my boys were invited by a friend to go to Bible Camp with him for 5 days this summer. If this boy can bring three friends, he will get $100. Every former camper has been promised this if they bring three friends. And this boy was excited about getting that money.

 

I realize the church's goal is evangelization-a noble cause, but it really torches my arse when they use kids and bribe them to reel more kids in so they can reach these "poor lost souls". What's wrong with teaching these kids that you reach out to others because God calls us to share the Good News with others, not because you win something? Because you care about THEM and not your ice cream or money. To me it's very un-Christ like.

 

Did Jesus bribe the apostles with fish fries for the group if they brought in enough other people to listen to him speak? Did he offer them money if they brought in unbelievers? Jesus operated out of LOVE!

 

Ok, rant over.

[KnitWit]

I despise this also.

[Carol in Cal.]

I can understand teaching kids to invite their friends, but paying them and also grading them on their success is wrong on many levels. Even Paul said that he planted the seeds, others watered it, and it's the Spirit that gives success. It is not right, ever, to hold anyone accountable for results that only God can give. Accountability is only for actions that are within your own control. This is disgusting.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would talk to the mother of the friend. That is wrong on many levels - including, as you pointed out, a Christian one. I would simply say that your children like to play with her son as a friend but will not be filling any quotas for prizes that he wants to win.

[Tap]

I'm already fed up with umpteen Awana invitations pushing my kids to come to Awana so that their friend's class can win an ice cream party.

 

Today, my boys were invited by a friend to go to Bible Camp with him for 5 days this summer. If this boy can bring three friends, he will get $100. Every former camper has been promised this if they bring three friends. And this boy was excited about getting that money.

 

I realize the church's goal is evangelization-a noble cause, but it really torches my arse when they use kids and bribe them to reel more kids in so they can reach these "poor lost souls". What's wrong with teaching these kids that you reach out to others because God calls us to share the Good News with others, not because you win something? Because you care about THEM and not your ice cream or money. To me it's very un-Christ like.

 

Did Jesus bribe the apostles with fish fries for the group if they brought in enough other people to listen to him speak? Did he offer them money if they brought in unbelievers? Jesus operated out of LOVE!

 

Ok, rant over.

 

Please write a letter to the church. I hear about this so often on this board. My kids love AWANAs and have never felt this pressure. IT is sooo very wrong of the church to turn these kids into salesmen. The heart of evangelism for children, is to bring people to God through example and opportunity, not a paycheck. This shouldn't be done for profit!

[chiguirre]

Today, my boys were invited by a friend to go to Bible Camp with him for 5 days this summer. If this boy can bring three friends, he will get $100. Every former camper has been promised this if they bring three friends. And this boy was excited about getting that money.

 

 

Well, at least he was upfront about the prize and you can avoid what I'm sure will be a high pressure pitch for your kids to get saved by this church.

[Pretty in Pink]

I couldn't agree more.

 

I didn't realize that AWANA was like this because we had never participated prior to this spring. A new friend's daughter invited the boys to AWANA club and I thought it was so sweet of her and a gesture of her friendship towards my children.

 

A few weeks later I realized that the children earn extra AWANA dollars for each child they bring to class. In addition, one condition of being promoted to the next book (at least in the 6yr old class) was having brought at least X number of new friends to AWANA during the year.

 

It kind of hurt my feelings when I realized that my kids were likely just a check in this little girl's box.

[OnTheBrink]

I find that pretty awful, too.

 

On year, we went to WV to visit EX's grandparents. They always liked it when we went to church with them, so we did. When we got there, the church was having a contest between the sides of the church. Whichever side had more people on Easter was the winner. The sides were delineated as "north" and "south" ala the Civil War, complete with confederate flags, Civil War soldier uniforms, etc. We had no idea what we were walking into with my biracial son. It didn't help that he was the only person of color in the whole place.

 

To say it was uncomfortable is the biggest understatement since Noah checked weather.com and got a prediction for a 5 minute drizzle.

 

Christianity isn't about numbers and competing for who can bring the most people.

[fhjmom]

My husband and I have the same complaint about AWANA's and our children are the ones expected to do the inviting. Bringing a friend is a requirement for completing the handbooks each year (DD in K had to bring one friend and DS in 3rd was required to bring 2). My kids, who had busted their rears to finish their books, almost were denied their awards because of this requirement and an inflexible AWANA director. We squeaked in by getting two friends there on the very last night of club, one of which invloved me literally calling a mom and begging and crying on the phone and another friend at church who overhead us trying to figure out what to do, offered to have his daughter come for just that one time (they know how much time AWANA's takes and weren't interested in joining, which I knew). "Bring a Friend" for AWANA's is an incredible source of stress for our family!

 

My biggest issue is that AWANA's is a *huge* commitment to do the way they want you to. It requires doing more than one section of memory work each week to finish the book in a year. Ours also does a Grand Prix (pine car derby) and participates in a AWANA Olympics. All of these requires participation outside of club time and a lot of time on the part of the parent. DS did Cubbies, then dropped out from K-2nd grade when he was in private school. I thought it was just too much! The only reason we started back this last year is that I am using AWANA as our Bible credit for homeschool.

 

With that being said, I do not feel right inviting another child to come to AWANA's knowing what a large commitment of time it is for our family unless I know for sure that their family is looking for something like that for their child. Most families I know, it is just the opposite, they are already so busy that the last thing they want to add to their schedule is something with such high expectations.

 

There is also an enormous emphasis in all of the above activities on the competition aspect of each. Our Olympic team has apparently done very well for several years and the director is very competitve there (like 1st and 2nd place every year). The Grand Prix is all about the awards and there is an award ceremony at the end of the year recognizing those who complete their books, review, extra credit, etc. with lots of showing off those that get 'the big awards'.:tongue_smilie:So not Chrisitan, IMHO. I am okay with the book awards since it is based on individual accomplishments, I just wish it wasn't paraded in front of everyone else so much, IYKWIM.

 

So, yeah, this is a hot button issue with me, too.

[Heatherwith4]

This is a yucky concept, IMO. I think it's great to get kids to tell their friends about church, but not for prizes! It reminds me of how schools turn kids into door to door salesman every year. Definitely very un-Christlike!

[Aubrey]

Our AWANAS directors just skip that requirement. I'm SO glad.

[Audrey]

I'm already fed up with umpteen Awana invitations pushing my kids to come to Awana so that their friend's class can win an ice cream party.

 

Today, my boys were invited by a friend to go to Bible Camp with him for 5 days this summer. If this boy can bring three friends, he will get $100. Every former camper has been promised this if they bring three friends. And this boy was excited about getting that money.

 

I realize the church's goal is evangelization-a noble cause, but it really torches my arse when they use kids and bribe them to reel more kids in so they can reach these "poor lost souls". What's wrong with teaching these kids that you reach out to others because God calls us to share the Good News with others, not because you win something? Because you care about THEM and not your ice cream or money. To me it's very un-Christ like.

 

Did Jesus bribe the apostles with fish fries for the group if they brought in enough other people to listen to him speak? Did he offer them money if they brought in unbelievers? Jesus operated out of LOVE!

 

Ok, rant over.

 

 

You know what it makes it look like to an outsider? It makes it look like souls are worth $33.33 a pop.

 

If that isn't what that group wants people to think, someone should point out to them how cheap and distasteful (on SO MANY levels) their bribes appear.

[Guest janainaz]

You know what it makes it look like to an outsider? It makes it look like souls are worth $33.33 a pop.

 

If that isn't what that group wants people to think, someone should point out to them how cheap and distasteful (on SO MANY levels) their bribes appear.

 

Yeah, true. But most people these days don't and won't stand up against the church and their agenda. That whole thing is just plain wrong and any church that allows that to go on should be called out by the congregation. But hey, this is just ONE aspect of the church treating people like dollar signs. That's what it's all about.

[Heather in Neverland]

Our AWANAS directors just skip that requirement. I'm SO glad.

 

Yup. Ours did too. This is an AWANA thing and not necessarily a church thing but it is up to the individual church to look at that requirement in the club book and say "let's just skip that".

 

I have seen some churches do this for camps too. One thing our former church did which I thought was nice was instead of giving the inviting camper $100 for each camper they invited, they put the $100 towards the cost of attending the camp for the invitee. That way if my ds invites someone to camp it is an honest invitation and he gets no reward for it.

[ChristusG]

Wow, that is sad. We love AWANA....I think it is a great program. Our church doesn't say to skip the Bring A Friend section, but when I just wrote that she has no one to bring, it was not a big deal. She completed her book anyways.

[kalanamak]

Many years ago a dear friend of mine married an older art professor with a teenaged daughter (and I'm pleased to say, 33 years later they are still together despite an 18 year age gap). Poor girl was an only child in a tiny rural community, no one near to play with. The only social outlet was the small prairie church, which seated about 100 people. The church had a contest: the most "new" people a teen brought on a certain day won a free trip to a week summer camp in the Ozarks.

 

Well, her mother and step-dad were lovely people and they appealed to their friends, and we showed up en masse, and packed the place. Standing room only, cars up and down the little downtown. We outnumbered the members! It is the only church service I ever sat through, and it was father's day. I remember the line: A woman isn't a queen in her castle unless there is a king. And then the pastor talked about all the things God hates. The list went on and on. I was a little slump shoulders that they thought of a God who hated so much, but to each his own.

 

The girl "won" and went on the trip, and it made her summer, and I'll never forget the pastor shaking hands with all of us shaggy hippie-types shuffling past, and betting he was thinking: I hope this girl wins because of all the kids who come to church, she needs us the most.:lol: And I'll never forget that awkward-aged child just beaming that 75 people would show up for her.

 

Best of luck in donning your awanas armor.:grouphug:

[CLHCO]

This is why I won't do AWANA. I don't know if our church skips this stuff or not, but it's the principle of it. It's really big at our church and I've wanted to find some extra social opportunity for my daughter.

 

However, :rant: I can't stand the practice or the lack of though-out mentality that drives it. I would love nothing more than to have my child find an opportunity to meet with other Christian children for fun, games, and some Bible learnin', even if I do believe the bulk of that is my responsibility, but Christian behavior shouldn't come with cheap prizes because it cheapens the lessons and in this situation, it cheapens the invited friends.

 

How's that for opinionated? :tongue_smilie:

[EKS]

Aha! This might explain some odd behavior on the part of one of my son's friends.

[jewellsmommy]

I couldn't agree more.

 

I didn't realize that AWANA was like this because we had never participated prior to this spring. A new friend's daughter invited the boys to AWANA club and I thought it was so sweet of her and a gesture of her friendship towards my children.

 

A few weeks later I realized that the children earn extra AWANA dollars for each child they bring to class. In addition, one condition of being promoted to the next book (at least in the 6yr old class) was having brought at least X number of new friends to AWANA during the year.

 

It kind of hurt my feelings when I realized that my kids were likely just a check in this little girl's box.

 

 

Please note that paying kids(real money or AWANA dollars) is not an AWANA thing but how an individual church chose to implement the program.

 

Yes, in the AWANA books there is a section about bringing a friend, but not for profit and AWANA training tells the directors and leaders that the goal is to have children invite not necessarily that they have to succeed in getting someone to come. AWANA even puts out a list of other suggested activities such as sending postcards to shut ins etc. in place of this section. But, it is NOT AWANA policy to bribe children, just so that you know.

 

BTW: I am the AWANA director at our church. We do not bribe for friends but I have been known to bribe for remembering to bring their books back :D.

[jewellsmommy]

This is why I won't do AWANA. I don't know if our church skips this stuff or not, but it's the principle of it. It's really big at our church and I've wanted to find some extra social opportunity for my daughter.

 

However, :rant: I can't stand the practice or the lack of though-out mentality that drives it. I would love nothing more than to have my child find an opportunity to meet with other Christian children for fun, games, and some Bible learnin', even if I do believe the bulk of that is my responsibility, but Christian behavior shouldn't come with cheap prizes because it cheapens the lessons and in this situation, it cheapens the invited friends.

 

How's that for opinionated? :tongue_smilie:

 

 

I am sorry to hear of your bad experiences. I agree that this is not the best practice. AWANA really is a good program. Perhaps you could find a different church and ask how they implement it. AWANA allows churches to implement this sort of stuff how they see fit so not all churches do it the same way. It has been a good force in my dd's life. Also, I can now sing more verses then I could ever say before awana :D

[MamaSheep]

I have no problem with kids inviting their friends to church if it's because the kids WANT to invite their friends to church. I have no problem with my kids visiting their friends' churches.

 

I do have a problem with the church that has set up their little carnival over in the park across the street this week. They have big inflatable slides and bouncy things and free snow cones and some kind of Bible stories thing. That I don't have a problem with. If they want to socialize over at the park, more power to them. They went around and hung doorknob fliers on all the doors in the neighborhood inviting all the kids in the neighborhood to join them. Fine by me, by all means go ahead and reach out to the neighbors. BUT--my dd went over with her friend and friend's mom. When she came back she said that they told her she had to have a name tag, (no problem) and they also asked her for her address and other contact information. THAT I have a problem with. Fortunately she knows better than to give out personal contact information to a stranger without asking her parents first. They were nice enough to let her play anyway and just put her first name on the name tag.

 

We looked up the church's website that was listed on their flyer. They mostly don't come out and say so, but if you follow enough links you discover that it's evidently a new church supported by a missions board and its whole reason for existing is to rescue people from Mormonism, here in this (apparently rather frightening and eerie) dominantly Mormon area. Ok, well, I don't have a problem with people wanting to share their faith or building a new church down the way (after they gather enough support) that will present opposing viewpoints. I've spent most of my life, other than the past few years, in areas where I'm in the vastly decided minority. No biggie. I'm fine with diversity. I'm fine with having my beliefs challenged. What bugs me is that instead of coming to ME or to my DH, or the other adults in the neighborhood and presenting their views, and discussing with US whether we are interested in knowing more about their church and/or doctrine, and then maybe teaching our kids about it, they are instead trying to draw in the little kids and talk to them about it without their parents. And yes, this is intended to be an event where parents can drop off their kids and then pick them up later--it's not a family event. They did allow friend's mom to stay and supervise the kids she brought, and I saw several other neighborhood moms over there too when I walked over to pick up dd for her doctor's appointment, but I didn't see any of the church's event people talking to the adults, just the kids.

 

I dunno. Rubs me all wrong.

[CLHCO]

I am sorry to hear of your bad experiences. I agree that this is not the best practice. AWANA really is a good program. Perhaps you could find a different church and ask how they implement it. AWANA allows churches to implement this sort of stuff how they see fit so not all churches do it the same way. It has been a good force in my dd's life. Also, I can now sing more verses then I could ever say before awana :D

 

I'm not really that down on the whole idea of AWANA, and I admit I don't know how my specific church handles each aspect of the program requirements. I hoped my smiles showed some of my over-dramatization of my feelings, ;) (drama girl), though there is truth to how I feel about it. It's not just AWANA though. It's the whole culture of hip and cool to bribe to entice youth to Jesus. If you aren't careful, AWANA can be the first stepping stone to this mentality. When in a church family of involved parents and volunteers, getting together for a Christian community building, fun opportunity, I'm probably for it. For all I know, that is exactly how it's done there. The aspect of "invite a kid to church to get money/points/advancement bugs me. It turns it into a game show for numbers instead of something that builds up the little saints or saints-in-training.

 

I'm just sayin' it bugs me. :closedeyes:

Edited June 16, 2010 by CLHCO

[LibraryLover]

There is a certain sadness I feel when people are recruiting for Jesus by offerring free pizza.

Edited June 16, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Joker]

It's nothing new to me. When I was growing up we always had a "bring a friend to Revival" night. There were no prizes or money but you were recognized if you had the most friends in attendance. It was most definately a competition between the kids. (this was in the 80's)

[jewellsmommy]

I'm not really that down on the whole idea of AWANA, and I admit I don't know how my specific church handles eat aspect of the program requirements. I hoped my smiles showed some of my over-dramatization of my feelings, ;) (drama girl), though there is truth to how I feel about it. It's not just AWANA though. It's the whole culture of hip and cool to bribe to entice youth to Jesus. If you aren't careful, AWANA can be the first stepping stone to this mentality. When in a church family of involved parents and volunteers, getting together for a Christian community building, fun opportunity, I'm probably for it. For all I know, that is exactly how it's done there. The aspect of "invite a kid to church to get money/points/advancement bugs me. It turns it into a game show for numbers instead of something that builds up the little saints or saints-in-training.

 

I'm just sayin' it bugs me. :closedeyes:

 

I understand what you are saying. I personally dislike seeing youth groups water down their actual teaching and giving way to nothing but pizza, icecream, and waterballoons just to attract the biggest numbers and be able to say wow we had 67 youth tonight. That's nice but what did you accomplish with those 67 youth? Anyone can draw a crowd. Dh and I call those "pizza christians". Don't get me wrong those things have their place in youth events, but too often it is all about the quantity and not the quality. I hate that. In the effort to draw people in we lose sight of what we hold most dear, sharing the love and relationship with Christ. I would rather have 1 who earnestly wanted to be there then 20 that were paid to be there.

 

That being said, I also believe that God will use the best and worst intentions and the best and worst laid plans as well. And, regardless of why a person shows up, if God's word is taught then it will never return void. So, I try not to get up on my high horse too often (although I sure like it up there. :tongue_smilie:)

[CLHCO]

Dh and I call those "pizza christians".

 

:lol:

 

I was a pizza christian in high school. :lol: What's funny is how I was more or less turned into one after a real conversion. When I was in early elementary a kind lady down the street had a program in her home for neighbor kids. She approached parents rather than offered coupons to other kids to get kids to show up - parents she lived around and interacted with on our block. It was small, it was real, and I "gave my heart" to Jesus. Really did. We moved, I wasn't discipled, I forgot my faith, needed God at a later date, heard his calls back to me as a young teen, went to a good church, then got invited to a pizza youth group and it all became social, shallow, and didn't stand up in college. Dropped my faith like a rock in college. Thankfully, sometime in my adulthood the Spirit smacked me over the head again and I remembered who I was.

 

We don't give youth enough credit. They can discern important spiritual matters quite well. I also think the invites should be adult to adult, not child to child, though this can include an adult asking the adult if the child can attend. My mom was thrilled to send me, even though she wasn't interested. That's just my opinion, but I won't undermine a parent or put some confused child into a program that is directly counter to the teaching at home, or push a parent into something he/she is not comfortable with.

[Violet Crown]

AWANA ended a friendship of mine. Other Mom invited little dd to come to AWANA, and her son, dd's little friend, really desperately wanted her to come, too, and they promised it was just a few verses of Bible study and then lots of fun 'n' games, so I let her go. When I picked her up from the room, her little friend told me with great excitement about the prize he was getting for having brought an "unsaved" friend. Now, dd went to mass twice a week, prayed daily, and had just made her First Communion, and Other Mom knew that. I had never realized until that moment that we were not Christians in her eyes. (Some gentle probing later confirmed that.)

 

On the way out, a couple of church staff members stopped dd and asked her--not me--if she wouldn't like to come back next time, every time, maybe she could bring her family on Sunday? I told them she wouldn't be returning.

 

Dang I was stupid and naive. Never again.

[Mommy22alyns]

 

Today, my boys were invited by a friend to go to Bible Camp with him for 5 days this summer. If this boy can bring three friends, he will get $100. Every former camper has been promised this if they bring three friends. And this boy was excited about getting that money.

 

 

:001_huh: Oh. my. goodness.

[Carrie12345]

 

Today, my boys were invited by a friend to go to Bible Camp with him for 5 days this summer. If this boy can bring three friends, he will get $100. Every former camper has been promised this if they bring three friends. And this boy was excited about getting that money.

 

 

 

Is it wrong that I would consider having my child propose a $18/$15 split of his or her value? :tongue_smilie:

Hey, if it's good enough for the church...

[SquirrellyMama]

"Bring a Friend" for AWANA's is an incredible source of stress for our family!

 

I agree! So far, only my son has brought a friend. He happens to be the friend that comes along for other friends too. The parents aren't going to do AWANAS but they are very nice about sending the child along with friends. She said he's probably helped 4 kids get through their first book.

 

My kids went along with friends before they were in AWANAS also.

 

My dd has not brought any friends. She really wants to but most of our friends are either already Christians and in AWANAS or someone I don't want to pressure because I know their feelings. I'm not sure they would send their kids to a bible program.

 

My dd was able to satisfy the friend requirement by giving 2 friends a postcard instead. I like that idea.

 

Kelly

[katemary63]

My biggest issue is that AWANA's is a *huge* commitment to do the way they want you to. It requires doing more than one section of memory work each week to finish the book in a year. Ours also does a Grand Prix (pine car derby) and participates in a AWANA Olympics. All of these requires participation outside of club time and a lot of time on the part of the parent. DS did Cubbies, then dropped out from K-2nd grade when he was in private school. I thought it was just too much! The only reason we started back this last year is that I am using AWANA as our Bible credit for homeschool.

 

Wow, I'm having a hard time trying to figure out how AWANA is a huge committment of time. My DD has been in since age 3. I drop her off Wed. nights at 6:00 pm. I pick her up at 7:30. (I do not help out because I am very active in other areas at church and don't feel obligated to.) She studies her handbook less then 5 minutes / day and on busy days, not at all. She has always finished her book at the end of the year, except once anyway. And that certainly wasn't a big deal. If you don't finish, you don't finish. It didn't bother her. She just picked up in that book at the beginning of the next year. Olympics and Pinewood derby are optional and we don't participate. There is no reason to feel obligated to.

 

As far as inviting other kids, we did once several years ago and that child comes weekly now and has accepted the Lord. She is my DD's best friend and we are so glad we invited her it makes me cry just thinking about it. Other years, we've simply written a note to the leader saying we wanted our DD to be excused from this requirement and she was, getting all her awards anyway.

 

AWANA is one of the best programs my kids have ever been involved with. We love it. I would say work around they few things you don't like. Talk to the leadership. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Edited June 16, 2010 by katemary63

[katemary63]

When I picked her up from the room, her little friend told me with great excitement about the prize he was getting for having brought an "unsaved" friend. Now, dd went to mass twice a week, prayed daily, and had just made her First Communion, and Other Mom knew that. I had never realized until that moment that we were not Christians in her eyes. (Some gentle probing later confirmed that.)

 

This is so sad. I'm sorry this happened to you. :crying:

[unsinkable]

AWANA ended a friendship of mine. Other Mom invited little dd to come to AWANA, and her son, dd's little friend, really desperately wanted her to come, too, and they promised it was just a few verses of Bible study and then lots of fun 'n' games, so I let her go. When I picked her up from the room, her little friend told me with great excitement about the prize he was getting for having brought an "unsaved" friend. Now, dd went to mass twice a week, prayed daily, and had just made her First Communion, and Other Mom knew that. I had never realized until that moment that we were not Christians in her eyes. (Some gentle probing later confirmed that.)

 

On the way out, a couple of church staff members stopped dd and asked her--not me--if she wouldn't like to come back next time, every time, maybe she could bring her family on Sunday? I told them she wouldn't be returning.

 

Dang I was stupid and naive. Never again.

 

:grouphug:

 

At least now you know what to watch out for.

[fivetails]

It's nothing new to me. When I was growing up we always had a "bring a friend to Revival" night. There were no prizes or money but you were recognized if you had the most friends in attendance. It was most definately a competition between the kids. (this was in the 80's)

 

I didn't go to church as a kid, but I do remember lots of "bring a friend" stuff in other extracurricular activities... so it's not just something that a church program does. Our kids have also been encouraged to bring friends to a variety of activities as well.

 

They were both in AWANA last year - there was no "bring a friend" involved, but it would have been rather difficult anyway... the entire group was made up of homeschoolers and met on Thursday mornings. ;)

[Laura Corin]

Many years ago a dear friend of mine married an older art professor with a teenaged daughter (and I'm pleased to say, 33 years later they are still together despite an 18 year age gap). Poor girl was an only child in a tiny rural community, no one near to play with. The only social outlet was the small prairie church, which seated about 100 people. The church had a contest: the most "new" people a teen brought on a certain day won a free trip to a week summer camp in the Ozarks.

 

Well, her mother and step-dad were lovely people and they appealed to their friends, and we showed up en masse, and packed the place. Standing room only, cars up and down the little downtown. We outnumbered the members! It is the only church service I ever sat through, and it was father's day. I remember the line: A woman isn't a queen in her castle unless there is a king. And then the pastor talked about all the things God hates. The list went on and on. I was a little slump shoulders that they thought of a God who hated so much, but to each his own.

 

The girl "won" and went on the trip, and it made her summer, and I'll never forget the pastor shaking hands with all of us shaggy hippie-types shuffling past, and betting he was thinking: I hope this girl wins because of all the kids who come to church, she needs us the most.:lol: And I'll never forget that awkward-aged child just beaming that 75 people would show up for her.

 

Best of luck in donning your awanas armor.:grouphug:

 

Laura

[WishboneDawn]

I realize the church's goal is evangelization-a noble cause...

 

I'm not so sure. Evangelizing out of love an genuine concern may be a noble cause. Evangelizing because of rewards, bragging rights or personal gain seems to me to make religion into a game show.

[fhjmom]

Wow, I'm having a hard time trying to figure out how AWANA is a huge committment of time. My DD has been in since age 3. I drop her off Wed. nights at 6:00 pm. I pick her up at 7:30. (I do not help out because I am very active in other areas at church and don't feel obligated to.) She studies her handbook less then 5 minutes / day and on busy days, not at all. She has always finished her book at the end of the year, except once anyway. And that certainly wasn't a big deal. If you don't finish, you don't finish. It didn't bother her. She just picked up in that book at the beginning of the next year. Olympics and Pinewood derby are optional and we don't participate. There is no reason to feel obligated to.

 

As far as inviting other kids, we did once several years ago and that child comes weekly now and has accepted the Lord. She is my DD's best friend and we are so glad we invited her it makes me cry just thinking about it. Other years, we've simply written a note to the leader saying we wanted our DD to be excused from this requirement and she was, getting all her awards anyway.

 

AWANA is one of the best programs my kids have ever been involved with. We love it. I would say work around they few things you don't like. Talk to the leadership. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

Then your director must be *very* different from ours, and I have no doubt that much of how our AWANA's is organized has to do with the director. Like I said, much of the emphasis is placed on the competition and the kids are very much expected to participate in the outside activities. OUr AWANA's meets for two hours on Sunday evenings. During activity time all year, the talk is about how they are preparing for the Olympic meet. DS did the Truth & Training book this year and had to do more than one section every week to finish, of course he really dragged his feet in the fall and had to do multiple sections each week in the spring to catch up. Many of those sections required more preparation that 5 minutes a day a few times a week. And yes, it is a *big* deal in our group if you finish your book. In the spring, they regularly send home notes saying how many sections your child has left to finish. I have tried to talk to our director about things that I have issues with, especially the "bring a friend" thing. I even sent her links to the pages on the AWANA's website where they talked about the alternatives (I was willing to have DC do one of the alternative exercises) but she would not budge. No friend = no book award. She tried to tell me it was "required by AWANA's and she signed a contract with them so she had to do it that way".:tongue_smilie:

 

Oh, and for the poster that said that one boy came multiple times for different friends; in our AWANA's that won't count. They define a friend as a person who has not been to AWANA's at all that year with anyone, so my DS couldn't even bring the same friend once in the fall and once in the spring. It had to be two different friends. If someone who attended our church came once in the fall and decided not to continue, DD couldn't bring that friend in the spring because she had already come to club once that year.

 

I didn't mention attendance awards either, but a child cannot miss *any* club meeting and still get an attendance award. They also give attendance awards for church attendance, again they must not miss at all. They do not give 'excused absencese' even if you are sick. Another big deal is made about attendance so there is the pressure to be there every week, no matter what. (Just to clarify, this is how our club does it, I don't knwo the official policy or how other clubs do it.))

 

I wish our AWANA's was more like some of your programs here and I wouldn't stress over it so much. I am not throwing the baby out with the bath water b/c we still do AWANA's; I see the value in it and I want my children to hide the Word in their heart. AWANA's is helping them do that. I try very hard not to let them see how stressed out it makes me. I just don't wish the stress I feel about it on another family, which is a big reason I have such a hard time with the friend thing. There are other issues too, but I shouldn't have to explain those. If, as a parent, I wanted my DC to be able to do an alternate activity that is approved by the organization, I should be able to say that and I feel the director should accomodate us.

 

Oh, ,and that is awesome about your DC's friend! That is the way it is supposed to happen!

Edited June 16, 2010 by fhjmom

[Irishmommy]

AWANA ended a friendship of mine. Other Mom invited little dd to come to AWANA, and her son, dd's little friend, really desperately wanted her to come, too, and they promised it was just a few verses of Bible study and then lots of fun 'n' games, so I let her go. When I picked her up from the room, her little friend told me with great excitement about the prize he was getting for having brought an "unsaved" friend. Now, dd went to mass twice a week, prayed daily, and had just made her First Communion, and Other Mom knew that. I had never realized until that moment that we were not Christians in her eyes. (Some gentle probing later confirmed that.)

 

On the way out, a couple of church staff members stopped dd and asked her--not me--if she wouldn't like to come back next time, every time, maybe she could bring her family on Sunday? I told them she wouldn't be returning.

 

Dang I was stupid and naive. Never again.

 

This is just awful, awful. I am so sorry that this happened to you!

[Cinder]

Wow, that is sad. We love AWANA....I think it is a great program. Our church doesn't say to skip the Bring A Friend section, but when I just wrote that she has no one to bring, it was not a big deal. She completed her book anyways.

 

This is what our church does with AWANA, too. Bring a friend--great. Don't bring a friend, no biggee. You still get to pass your book. To me, allowing them to move on without fulfilling this requirement puts the emphasis on discipleship.

 

As to giving kids money for bringing friends to Bible Camp--I'm flabbergasted. At our church the kids are encouraged to bring friends to VBS, but it's so their friends can join in the fun and learn about Jesus. No money, no prizes.

 

 

Cinder

[SquirrellyMama]

Oh, and for the poster that said that one boy came multiple times for different friends; in our AWANA's that won't count. They define a friend as a person who has not been to AWANA's at all that year with anyone,

 

He didn't come with multiple people in one year. All four kids belong to different groups. Our group might even have the same requirement.

[fivetails]

Then your director must be *very* different from ours, and I have no doubt that much of how our AWANA's is organized has to do with the director. Like I said, much of the emphasis is placed on the competition and the kids are very much expected to participate in the outside activities. OUr AWANA's meets for two hours on Sunday evenings. During activity time all year, the talk is about how they are preparing for the Olympic meet. DS did the Truth & Training book this year and had to do more than one section every week to finish, of course he really dragged his feet in the fall and had to do multiple sections each week in the spring to catch up. Many of those sections required more preparation that 5 minutes a day a few times a week. And yes, it is a *big* deal in our group if you finish your book. In the spring, they regularly send home notes saying how many sections your child has left to finish. I have tried to talk to our director about things that I have issues with, especially the "bring a friend" thing. I even sent her links to the pages on the AWANA's website where they talked about the alternatives (I was willing to have DC do one of the alternative exercises) but she would not budge. No friend = no book award. She tried to tell me it was "required by AWANA's and she signed a contract with them so she had to do it that way".:tongue_smilie:

 

Oh, and for the poster that said that one boy came multiple times for different friends; in our AWANA's that won't count. They define a friend as a person who has not been to AWANA's at all that year with anyone, so my DS couldn't even bring the same friend once in the fall and once in the spring. It had to be two different friends. If someone who attended our church came once in the fall and decided not to continue, DD couldn't bring that friend in the spring because she had already come to club once that year.

 

I didn't mention attendance awards either, but a child cannot miss *any* club meeting and still get an attendance award. They also give attendance awards for church attendance, again they must not miss at all. They do not give 'excused absencese' even if you are sick. Another big deal is made about attendance so there is the pressure to be there every week, no matter what. (Just to clarify, this is how our club does it, I don't knwo the official policy or how other clubs do it.))

 

I wish our AWANA's was more like some of your programs here and I wouldn't stress over it so much. I am not throwing the baby out with the bath water b/c we still do AWANA's; I see the value in it and I want my children to hide the Word in their heart. AWANA's is helping them do that. I try very hard not to let them see how stressed out it makes me. I just don't wish the stress I feel about it on another family, which is a big reason I have such a hard time with the friend thing. There are other issues too, but I shouldn't have to explain those. If, as a parent, I wanted my DC to be able to do an alternate activity that is approved by the organization, I should be able to say that and I feel the director should accomodate us.

 

Oh, ,and that is awesome about your DC's friend! That is the way it is supposed to happen!

 

Sounds like the person running your group has some serious control issues and doesn't understand the word "flexibility" - if our AWANA program had been run like that, we'd have been out the door faster than you can shake a sheep.

[Heather in Neverland]

Sounds like the person running your group has some serious control issues and doesn't understand the word "flexibility" - if our AWANA program had been run like that, we'd have been out the door faster than you can shake a sheep.

 

:iagree:

 

Wow, I never heard of an AWANA nazi before. None of the AWANA groups we have been in have been like this. That is crazy. I would get out of there and FAST. You may also want to discuss this with church leadership.

[Tidbits of Learning]

AWANA ended a friendship of mine. Other Mom invited little dd to come to AWANA, and her son, dd's little friend, really desperately wanted her to come, too, and they promised it was just a few verses of Bible study and then lots of fun 'n' games, so I let her go. When I picked her up from the room, her little friend told me with great excitement about the prize he was getting for having brought an "unsaved" friend. Now, dd went to mass twice a week, prayed daily, and had just made her First Communion, and Other Mom knew that. I had never realized until that moment that we were not Christians in her eyes. (Some gentle probing later confirmed that.)

 

On the way out, a couple of church staff members stopped dd and asked her--not me--if she wouldn't like to come back next time, every time, maybe she could bring her family on Sunday? I told them she wouldn't be returning.

 

Dang I was stupid and naive. Never again.

 

I'm sorry this happened to you. I have been there myself although with an adult friend that considered me and my family their "unchurched" friends.:grouphug:

[MamaSheep]

AWANA ended a friendship of mine. Other Mom invited little dd to come to AWANA, and her son, dd's little friend, really desperately wanted her to come, too, and they promised it was just a few verses of Bible study and then lots of fun 'n' games, so I let her go. When I picked her up from the room, her little friend told me with great excitement about the prize he was getting for having brought an "unsaved" friend. Now, dd went to mass twice a week, prayed daily, and had just made her First Communion, and Other Mom knew that. I had never realized until that moment that we were not Christians in her eyes. (Some gentle probing later confirmed that.)

 

On the way out, a couple of church staff members stopped dd and asked her--not me--if she wouldn't like to come back next time, every time, maybe she could bring her family on Sunday? I told them she wouldn't be returning.

 

Dang I was stupid and naive. Never again.

 

:grouphug: I'm sorry this happened to you and your dd too. FWIW I don't think you were the only person in this scenario who was naive (and I don't think you were stupid). And if it makes you feel any better I've done some stupidly naive things along those lines myself. For example, I made friends with some of the ladies at my first office job that I worked at while I was in college. I was thrilled when one of them invited me and another co-worker to go with her to a ladies' luncheon at her church one day. I thought, oh that will be fun, socializing with people from work over lunch. I mean, it's a luncheon, right? You eat lunch there? Maybe chat a little? It's at a church, so maybe a gospel message of some sort and probably a prayer. Sounds fun. I rode there with the two of them and sure enough, when we got there we were handed a sandwich at the door. Then we all went and sat at some tables and watched a lengthy (and painfully overdramatized) video about the evils of cults and how to avoid their nefarious clutches and recognize their underhanded, deceitful "recruiting techniques". You know, "cults" like my church. The whole point of inviting me was to bring the unsaved cultist along to show me the error of my ways (and the information in the video wasn't even accurate). Silly me, I thought they were friends, but it turns out they saw me as a "project", not a friend. I would have felt differently about it if they'd said up front that as my friends they were concerned about my religious choices and wanted to take me to see this presentation about it at their church, rather than just railroading me like that. I'm actually fairly used to people telling me they think I'm going to hell. But it does hurt when you think your relationship with someone is one thing, and it turns out that they just haven't been up front with you about it.

[Jeanne in MN]

Oh man-how sad is that. The first time my dd went to Awana, her "friend" wanted to share a few Bible verses with her afterwards. A short time later her dad walked by and the "friend" said, "hey dad! guess what? A--'s been saved!" That was an eye opener too. I'm so sorry you and your dd went through this-that's degrading.

 

 

 

AWANA ended a friendship of mine. Other Mom invited little dd to come to AWANA, and her son, dd's little friend, really desperately wanted her to come, too, and they promised it was just a few verses of Bible study and then lots of fun 'n' games, so I let her go. When I picked her up from the room, her little friend told me with great excitement about the prize he was getting for having brought an "unsaved" friend. Now, dd went to mass twice a week, prayed daily, and had just made her First Communion, and Other Mom knew that. I had never realized until that moment that we were not Christians in her eyes. (Some gentle probing later confirmed that.)

 

On the way out, a couple of church staff members stopped dd and asked her--not me--if she wouldn't like to come back next time, every time, maybe she could bring her family on Sunday? I told them she wouldn't be returning.

 

Dang I was stupid and naive. Never again.

[Rivka]

What sad stories are coming out of this thread.

 

In my Unitarian-Universalist church's Coming of Age program for 13-year-olds, the kids are taught about high-pressure evangelism and how teens are targeted by their friends - often via invitations to events which sound social but are not. The lessons are supposed to arm our kids so they know what is happening and what their options are for handling it.

 

It sounds like we need to develop some kind of materials for elementary-age kids as well. Ugh.

[JessaMae]

I've been leading the Awana program at my church for the past two years. We have never required the kids to bring a friend to pass their book. If they want to bring a friend (and many of them want to b/c they like Awana) they can, but it's not required. Also, they will receive two extra Bible bucks for bringing a friend (that they can spend at the Awana store) but they can also earn Bible bucks for wearing their uniform, bringing their Bible, bringing their handbook, being kind to a classmate, being a good listener, attending Awana, etc, etc. They can also have bucks taken away for poor behavior - our rewards system. We don't make a huge deal out of bringing a friend b/c it isn't up to the child whether their friend will be allowed to attend or not.

 

We also don't credit the kids for Sunday church attendance. This just doesn't seem fair to the kids at all since so many of them either attend other churches or their families choose not to attend church on Sundays. It felt like we would be punishing some of the kids if we did that.

 

Most of our kids don't finish their book in one year. In fact, I think only 2 of our kids have finished in one year. It's not a big deal here. They are supposed to be working at their own pace. As long as they are bringing their book and trying, that's all we ask for.

 

It is definitely up to your church how they implement the Awana program. I would look around. There are many Awana programs in our area. Maybe you can find one that is less strict and more understanding. Sorry you have had such a bad experience.

[Wheres Toto]

We don't make a huge deal out of bringing a friend b/c it isn't up to the child whether their friend will be allowed to attend or not.

 

 

 

I think so many of these stories are so sad and really showing some inappropriate actions but this is the thing that stood out to me the most. A previous poster mentioned a 6 year old not getting credit for finishing their book unless they had brought a friend (or friends) to visit. What control does a 6 year old have over bringing a friend? Why should they be punished if their parent isn't willing to be responsible for bringing another child (and probably making all the arrangements with the other parent).

[katemary63]

Then your director must be *very* different from ours, and I have no doubt that much of how our AWANA's is organized has to do with the director.

 

 

I'm so sorry this is your experience. It just shouldn't be that way. Your director seems to have lost the feel for what it's really all about. That's too bad. Let's hope she resigns soon and the next director is more compassionate and less legalistic.

[FaithManor]

I too, do not appreciate the philosophy that we should bribe people to attend any program at church, UGH! That is definitely not the approach taught by Christ or His apostles.

 

We do not have a church in our area that does AWANA so I am unfamiliar with the program. But, we did have an area church that bribed teens one year to attend a teen version of "VBS" and the kid that brought the most visitors....drum roll please.......... WAS GIVEN A PONY! Of course, a farm was not bequeathed to go with it. The girl that won lived in an apartment.

 

It was one of the most disgusting things I've ever seen a church do and let me tell you, we are pretty committed Christians who are in church just about every Sunday and we've lived in several states over the years so we've SEEN A LOT!

 

That said, all organizations are made up of flawed people and churches are no exception. Sigh!

 

Faith