"Eliminating homelessness" -- is that a realistic goal?

[msjones]

We have a large, multi-faith 'task force' in our city the goal of which is to "eliminate homelessness." They clarify in their mission statement that they really mean to end it, not just reduce homelessness or respond more effectively as a city. The goal is no homeless people in our big city.

 

Maybe I should duck as I write this, but I think this is ... unrealistic. (I refrained from using other words there...)

 

Ending homelessness would also require ending poverty, drug addiction, alcoholism, domestic violence, child abuse, and mental illness.

 

I was once a case-worker for homeless students in the school district, taught summer school at a family shelter, support a teen shelter in our area, have volunteered many times at shelters and food banks. So, I don't mean that I am opposed to serving this population. But to ELIMINATE homelessness?

 

What do you think? Is it possible to end homelessness? Are you aware of any large-ish American city with no homeless population? How has your city addressed homelessness and do you think it's acceptable?

[Joanne]

We have a large, multi-faith 'task force' in our city the goal of which is to "eliminate homelessness." They clarify in their mission statement that they really mean to end it, not just reduce homelessness or respond more effectively as a city. The goal is no homeless people in our big city.

 

Maybe I should duck as I write this, but I think this is ... unrealistic. (I refrained from using other words there...)

 

Ending homelessness would also require ending poverty, drug addiction, alcoholism, domestic violence, child abuse, and mental illness.

 

I was once a case-worker for homeless students in the school district, taught summer school at a family shelter, support a teen shelter in our area, have volunteered many times at shelters and food banks. So, I don't mean that I am opposed to serving this population. But to ELIMINATE homelessness?

 

What do you think? Is it possible to end homelessness? Are you aware of any large-ish American city with no homeless population? How has your city addressed homelessness and do you think it's acceptable?

 

Not realistic. I'm friends with a homeless gentleman and tangently "in touch" with the local homeless community here. I'm not unfamiliar with the issues of the homeless population.

 

My local community (suburb of Houston) does nothing to assist the homeless. The cops harass them.

[Orthodox6]

This is an infinitely complex topic.

 

No need to duck.

 

You ask for our opinions. I do not at all believe that the world ever shall eradicate homelessness, poverty, hunger, or disease. I believe this on secular reasoning, as well as on belief in Christianity, which teaches that such are part of the fallen world.

[SquirrellyMama]

I also don't think it is realistic. As long as we have sin in the world we will have all sorts of bad things.

[Lolly]

Impossible.

[staceyobu]

I would agree... unrealistic. I think a lot of people are on the streets due to mental illness and would stay there even if they had somewhere else to go. Even without people who would choose to stay homeless, it would seem a pretty impossible undertaking.

[Starr]

Often when an area says it has reduced or stopped homelessness they have just moved them elsewhere. While I don't think it's realistic that it will end; it is something to continue to strive for.

[elegantlion]

No, it's unrealistic. There are multiple reasons a person can be homeless, unless they plan to address the root of each issue (and people have been doing that for years!) it will not solve the problem.

[Carol in Cal.]

Just like being perfect in any other way is unrealistic, but is the right goal.

[asta]

I don't think sin has anything to do with it and I don't understand how that even enters into the equation.

 

If you want to see a good, even-handed look at the myriad aspects of homelessness (and why it will always exist in society), take a look at the site Pimp this Bum (yes, that is really the name). It is a brilliant project.

 

 

a

[WishboneDawn]

I think it's unrealistic and impossible for a person if that's how they choose to view a problem. It's one of those things that depends on your outlook and a quick look at history should provide many examples of "unrealistic" and "impossible" problems that have been solved.

 

Homelessness isn't that much of a puzzle. We know that most people on the streets are there because of problems with family life, addictions or mental health - All things we can help them deal with IF we reach out and do it.

 

Honestly, what besides a will to help the homeless would be a barrier to eliminating homelessness?

[Michelle in AL]

Often when an area says it has reduced or stopped homelessness they have just moved them elsewhere. While I don't think it's realistic that it will end; it is something to continue to strive for.

 

I agree that this is true for many cities. When dh and I last visited San Fran many yrs ago, we noticed there were no homeless around. Someone informed us that they had made a city wide sweep and relocated them to a different city.

 

I assume a faith based solution like what you're talking about wouldn't support that solution.

 

A nearby city is attempting to end homelessness by providing apartments and assistance for the chronically homeless. The newspaper article said this option was less expensive than providing for them on the streets.

 

I think enough money and effort could end homelessness in a city, but you wouldn't be able to turn all of these people into what we define as productive members of society or make them all able to eventually support themselves~that I would see as an unrealistic goal.

[SquirrellyMama]

I don't think sin has anything to do with it and I don't understand how that even enters into the equation.

 

If you want to see a good, even-handed look at the myriad aspects of homelessness (and why it will always exist in society), take a look at the site Pimp this Bum (yes, that is really the name). It is a brilliant project.

 

 

a

 

I'm sorry. I didn't mean because someone is homeless it means they sinned in some way to make them homeless. I was saying that when sin entered the world bad things came as a result (murder, greed, theft, suffering, etc...). As long as we have sin in the world we will have suffering in so many ways.

 

Not to say we shouldn't do something to help alleviate the problem but we will never wipe it out.

 

Kelly

[Remudamom]

I was saying that when sin entered the world bad things came as a result (murder, greed, theft, suffering, etc...). As long as we have sin in the world we will have suffering in so many ways.

 

Not to say we shouldn't do something to help alleviate the problem but we will never wipe it out.

 

Kelly

 

dits

[PineFarmMom]

IMO, any endeavor that gave the appearance of ending homelessness completely, whether by a church, the government or whatever, would be treating the symptom rather than the illness. Sure, a group could swoop in and do something that LOOKED like ending homelessness (moving them out like another poster said), but the real issues would still be there for those people. I agree with churches offering assistance and helping homeless people with food, clothing, shelter. That needs to be done under the main umbrella of leading them to Christ, who is the only one that can solve those problems for them ultimately, those problems that are a result of sin in the world.

[Wheres Toto]

I think enough money and effort could end homelessness in a city, but you wouldn't be able to turn all of these people into what we define as productive members of society or make them all able to eventually support themselves~that I would see as an unrealistic goal.

:iagree: Homelessness isn't just one issue - there are those who are homeless due to financial circumstances (could be families who are trying to get back on their feet), mental health issues (the closing of many mental health facilities in the 70's (?) led to increases in homelessness), drug/alcohol addictions, etc. In order to end homelessness, resources would need to be in place to provide the needed assistance for these secondary issues to be addressed and/or treated, even if it just means setting them up in long-term care facilities with no expectation of them ever being able to support themselves.

[EmilyK]

I think it's unrealistic and impossible for a person if that's how they choose to view a problem. It's one of those things that depends on your outlook and a quick look at history should provide many examples of "unrealistic" and "impossible" problems that have been solved.

 

Homelessness isn't that much of a puzzle. We know that most people on the streets are there because of problems with family life, addictions or mental health - All things we can help them deal with IF we reach out and do it.

 

Honestly, what besides a will to help the homeless would be a barrier to eliminating homelessness?

 

 

What besides a will to help? Well, all the people who choose to live on the streets and the state of the law that prevents forcing them into a shelter. I think the OP lives in WA, which I assume like OR does not allow committment unless there is imminent harm. So here the homeless mentally ill can not be forced into treatment. Not saying whether that is good or bad, but it is the way it is. There are better ways to deal with it (roving social workers who try to work with people and try to get them to take meds, rather than waiting til they decompensate and get taken by the police to the hospital).

 

At one point my father and I were heavily involved with organizations that served this population. At that point at least, there was a bed in our city for everyone who wanted one and was clean and sober (having someone who was using caused problems for the clean and sober folks who were worried about safety). But many people chose not to partake.

 

There are a lot of people who need help. I especially ache for the teenagers who were forced out of homes due to abuse or religious differences with parents (even though I find them hard to take IRL). But it isn't a simple problem.

 

I think we all need to do what we can.

[Rosie_0801]

Honestly, what besides a will to help the homeless would be a barrier to eliminating homelessness?

 

An equal will from people wanting to be helped. You can lead a horse to water, and all that. Then there's the occasional person who's homeless because they feel like it. You can't fix their problem because they haven't got a problem.

 

Rosie

[Desert Rat]

Unrealistic goal but the path is true.

[TravelingChris]

Unrealistic goal and one that seems like the people who are involved don't really understand the issues. I read a very well researched newspaper article a few years ago that dealt with non-mentally ill homeless and who they were and how they got there. THe author came into the project thinking it was random circumstances and anyone could have this happen to them. It turned out not to be the case. These were inevitably people who had other major problems like having alienated all their family and acquaintances with bad behavior and poor choices or being so proudful that they refused to get help that was available. It was an eye opening read for me and I am sure for others.

Now that was an article about the small percentage of homeless that are typically depicted as being victims of economic hard times. The much big percentage of homeless are mentally ill, mentally ill with substance abuse issues, or simply substance abuse issue people. None of them can be helped under our present laws unless they are in imminent danger to themselves or others. That is a difficult standard and so they wander and get worse. I think this is one of the worse failings of the civil rights era.

[Dandelion]

An equal will from people wanting to be helped. You can lead a horse to water, and all that. Then there's the occasional person who's homeless because they feel like it. You can't fix their problem because they haven't got a problem.

 

Rosie

 

:iagree:

 

We've got a large homeless population here in our town, and even a "tent city" where hundreds of homeless live in tents along a local river (the city has tried to shut it down and relocate them to shelters many times - no success). It even made national news a few months ago.

 

I've heard several interviews with the homeless in our town, and there are frequently those who say they choose to live this way. So, I would agree that no matter how much is done to "eliminate homelessness", it will never be eliminated because there will always be some who continue to be homeless by choice.

[myfunnybunch]

Realistic? Absolutely not.

 

Admirable, maybe. I wonder if this goal has more to do with a Yoda-style philosophy: "Do, or do not. There is no try." Perhaps they're trying to aim for the sky in hopes that the impossible dream pushes them (and all of the agencies with whom they work) along to greater achievements, and forces the city to address some of the problems that are so challenging that we typically say, "It cannot be done," and therefore don't try. I can see a particular type of group, idealistic and frustrated with what they perceive to be nay-saying, coming up with this kind of a goal.

 

Might be interesting to see how it all works out, whether it does indeed push the boundaries of what we believe to be possible or whether the whole thing implodes from the strain of trying to achieve an impossible goal.

 

Cat

[elizabeth]

http://www.forbes.com/2006/08/25/us-homeless-aid-cx_np_0828oxford.html

 

This is but one of many articles addressing the exponential costs of treating all the symptoms and concommitant conditions that are alleviated when the homeless are provided with a permanent home as opposed to layers and layers of bandaid programs. Food for thought. Furthermore, it is worrisome to see reformed theology worldview as the pov through which one attempts to analyze and address social problems. Specifically those posters who see this as one aspect of the world and humankind's state of falleness.

[Alenee]

 

I've heard several interviews with the homeless in our town, and there are frequently those who say they choose to live this way. So, I would agree that no matter how much is done to "eliminate homelessness", it will never be eliminated because there will always be some who continue to be homeless by choice.

 

This reminded me of my dad. He's not homeless at this moment but he has been homeless at times. He may go back to that at some point. He has made comments about how he doesn't have lofty aspirations...he's okay with 'just getting by' and in his life that means barely being able to feed himself. He's also one of those people that TransientChris mentioned, who has alienated all of his relatives because of poor choices and manipulation.

 

Some people just don't want to change... You have to at least WANT the change or nothing a person with good intentions does is going to make a difference in the long term here on earth. However, that doesn't mean we should stop offering a helping hand.

[justamouse]

What Elizabeth said.

Furthermore, it is worrisome to see reformed theology worldview as the pov through which one attempts to analyze and address social problems. Specifically those posters who see this as one aspect of the world and humankind's state of falleness.

 

I think it's a tough goal, but a worthy one. Yes, there are people who choose homelessness, but out of the entire homeless population I think their numbers are next to nothing.

Edited May 12, 2010 by justamouse

[elizabeth]

http://www.mainehousing.org/Documents/HousingReports/CostOfHomelessness.pdf

http://www.allbusiness.com/society-social/social-welfare-temporary/12012390-1.html

 

A few more articles regarding the same point it is cheaper and more effective to put people in a home than to spend the exorbitant amount of money on varying therapeutic modalitites that would be uneeded if people were not living on the streets.

[Mejane]

Homelessness isn't just one issue - there are those who are homeless due to financial circumstances (could be families who are trying to get back on their feet), mental health issues (the closing of many mental health facilities in the 70's (?) led to increases in homelessness), drug/alcohol addictions, etc.

 

Reagan began deinstitutionalizing the mentally ill during his CA governorship in the 60's, and continued on a federal level during his 80's presidency.

 

I agree homelessness will never be completely eradicated. There are many homeless who don't wish to be "fixed" (former social worker here).

[Meriwether]

Growing up, our small town had one homeless person who slept under the railroad tracks. A church in town bought him a house. He never slept in it.

 

To my knowledge he wasn't an addict. It is entirely possible he had mental illness, but I doubt he was ever tested.

[spradlin02]

I also don't think it is realistic. As long as we have sin in the world we will have all sorts of bad things.

 

 

Wow, that's convenient.

[jujsky]

We have a large, multi-faith 'task force' in our city the goal of which is to "eliminate homelessness." They clarify in their mission statement that they really mean to end it, not just reduce homelessness or respond more effectively as a city. The goal is no homeless people in our big city.

 

Maybe I should duck as I write this, but I think this is ... unrealistic. (I refrained from using other words there...)

 

Ending homelessness would also require ending poverty, drug addiction, alcoholism, domestic violence, child abuse, and mental illness.

 

I was once a case-worker for homeless students in the school district, taught summer school at a family shelter, support a teen shelter in our area, have volunteered many times at shelters and food banks. So, I don't mean that I am opposed to serving this population. But to ELIMINATE homelessness?

 

What do you think? Is it possible to end homelessness? Are you aware of any large-ish American city with no homeless population? How has your city addressed homelessness and do you think it's acceptable?

 

Nope, not realistic -- at least not without ending all of the other things you mentioned first. It can be reduced, but not eliminated.

[Cedarmom]

It is not a reachable goal, for the same reasons other posters have said. I also don't think it is even helpful. It seems like it is a goal put out there to sound good and make people feel as if surely something is being accomplished. How do you measure it though? How close are you to getting to your goal? Real goals that people which are achievable are measureable. I.e. , we will have at least 3 domestic violence shelters, have transitions homes for people with mental illness, etc.

[Meriwether]

Wow, that's convenient.

 

 

I can't speak for the poster you originally quoted, but most people who believe we are living with the consequences of a fallen world don't find it convenient.:)

[Mejane]

I agree with churches offering assistance and helping homeless people with food, clothing, shelter. That needs to be done under the main umbrella of leading them to Christ, who is the only one that can solve those problems for them ultimately, those problems that are a result of sin in the world.

 

This is exactly why many people don't turn to churches for help.

[Audrey]

Furthermore, it is worrisome to see reformed theology worldview as the pov through which one attempts to analyze and address social problems. Specifically those posters who see this as one aspect of the world and humankind's state of falleness.

 

 

:iagree: You rock, Elizabeth.

[Alenee]

This is exactly why many people don't turn to churches for help.

 

That's part of the point though. If people truly WANT help, they'll humble themselves and go get it wherever the help is offered. It's not a noble thing to turn down help when you really need it. It's pride. And that pride is what keeps many on the streets.

[Mejane]

That's part of the point though. If people truly WANT help, they'll humble themselves and go get it wherever the help is offered. It's not a noble thing to turn down help when you really need it. It's pride. And that pride is what keeps many on the streets.

 

People shouldn't have to "sell their soul", though, for a meal or a roof over their head.

[Renee in NC]

This is exactly why many people don't turn to churches for help.

 

Especially considering that the focus of such groups is the sin of the individual person. I don't think that Christ ever said that Christians won't suffer. The idea that if they just get "saved" and then they won't be homeless anymore doesn't fit Scripture.

[lionfamily1999]

We have a large, multi-faith 'task force' in our city the goal of which is to "eliminate homelessness." They clarify in their mission statement that they really mean to end it, not just reduce homelessness or respond more effectively as a city. The goal is no homeless people in our big city.

 

Maybe I should duck as I write this, but I think this is ... unrealistic. (I refrained from using other words there...)

 

Ending homelessness would also require ending poverty, drug addiction, alcoholism, domestic violence, child abuse, and mental illness.

 

I was once a case-worker for homeless students in the school district, taught summer school at a family shelter, support a teen shelter in our area, have volunteered many times at shelters and food banks. So, I don't mean that I am opposed to serving this population. But to ELIMINATE homelessness?

 

What do you think? Is it possible to end homelessness? Are you aware of any large-ish American city with no homeless population? How has your city addressed homelessness and do you think it's acceptable?

I haven't read the other posts, sorry if this is redundant.

 

It seems to me that NYC drastically lowered their homeless population by enforcing loitering laws :glare: That could work.

 

I don't believe it's possible to end homelessness, unless we accept that every person defines home to suit themself.

 

Here, there is a small homeless population. They tend to live in the woods (we're rural) or on the beaches. For those that end up homeless, but are willing to live according to certain rules (no alcohol for instance) there are places to go. There's also grocery give aways at two of the local churches and then the church that I attend makes rounds with hot meals and gives away clothing and necessities.

 

I think that what they've done is acceptable. There is a great deal of government sub. housing available, cheap flop-house type rentals, motels, and habitat for humanity is very active here. I do wish the "come-heres" would back off on their new sol rules and regulations. I believe that continually raising the standard of living regulations is just a fancy way of evicting the people that no one wants to live near. There are plenty of places to get food, clothing and shelter. The churches are very active here and that has a lot to do with it. And with the rabid contractors continually building new homes that aren't selling, there's plenty of abandoned houses too.

[Impish]

I think a small percentage could be helped...those who are already desperately trying to get off the streets. Those folks could be helped.

 

There are far too many others that prefer the freedom being on the streets gives them...no answering to anyone, no responsibilities, etc. You'd first have to change their hearts on the issue...and that's not something easily done, esp when mental illness and addictions are involved.

 

Giving help where its needed...food, blankets, water...a hand up...all dependent upon the receiver's needs, rather than the giver's. Its all anyone can really do.

[Renee in NC]

That's part of the point though. If people truly WANT help, they'll humble themselves and go get it wherever the help is offered. It's not a noble thing to turn down help when you really need it. It's pride. And that pride is what keeps many on the streets.

 

I disagree as well. It isn't pride in the sense that they think they are too good for the programs. Would you want to go ask for help from someone who says, "Sure, I'll help you, but not until I tell you what a horrible, sinful person you are first."

 

I think we are to spread the Gospel - absolutely. The Gospel I read talks about feeding the poor, visiting the sick and those in prison, as well as caring for widows and orphans. You can spread the Gospel through your actions far better than words.

 

Besides, how many people so you think come forward and pray the sinner's prayer because they think they need to to get the help or hope that they'll get better treatment if they do.

 

Help the homeless, build a relationship, share Christ. Pray with people, talk with them, treat them as human beings made in the image of God, not projects.

[SquirrellyMama]

Wow, that's convenient.

 

No, it isn't convenient. I'm not saying we shouldn't do something to help people but the original question was "Is it realistic to have no homelessness?" No, it isn't realistic because we are living in a fallen world. Again, we are to help people but we will never get rid of it completely.

[lionfamily1999]

I'm sorry. I didn't mean because someone is homeless it means they sinned in some way to make them homeless. I was saying that when sin entered the world bad things came as a result (murder, greed, theft, suffering, etc...). As long as we have sin in the world we will have suffering in so many ways.

 

Not to say we shouldn't do something to help alleviate the problem but we will never wipe it out.

 

Kelly

:iagree:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

As for not seeing through the lense of theology. What sort of lense might one recommend? The lense of the law? The lense of humanists? The lense of NIMBY? There are all sorts of lenses through which we look, many scales employed by people. Anyone thinking they have the best lense is... well, they're just like everyone else. They're assuming they know the right way to look at things.

[OnTheBrink]

I would agree... unrealistic. I think a lot of people are on the streets due to mental illness and would stay there even if they had somewhere else to go. Even without people who would choose to stay homeless, it would seem a pretty impossible undertaking.

 

I completely agree. I worked at an agency that dealt with chronically mentally ill adults and a good 1/4 of the clientele was homeless. Even with boarding homes and shelters, they'd opt for the streets. Problem is, they have the right to reject services as long as they're not a danger to themselves or others. So, you can't make them stay in a shelter or home. And, even if they stabilize on meds, they frequently go off their meds and lose any sort of job they might be able to maintain had they stayed med compliant.

 

So, no. Homelessness will never end. The alternative to the above is to strip their rights to refuse meds and housing and hole them up against their wills, but do we want to go there (as a society)?

[OnTheBrink]

Furthermore, it is worrisome to see reformed theology worldview as the pov through which one attempts to analyze and address social problems. Specifically those posters who see this as one aspect of the world and humankind's state of falleness.

 

Every single person on the planet has a world view and creates their pov through the lens of that world view. This isn't solely a characteristic of those of reformed theology. You don't have to be reformed to believe we live in a fallen world. I think most Christians, reformed or otherwise, believe that. And, it's a stretch to assume that because Christians believe that homelessness is just one aspect of our fallen world that they don't do anything to help the homeless. Non sequitur and all that.

[Alenee]

People shouldn't have to "sell their soul", though, for a meal or a roof over their head.

 

You're right but that's not what I'm saying. If a person has a problem stepping into a church because they don't want to hear a message, that's just plain foolish. Every.single.place. that offers help whether they are a secular or religious organization has a message they're pushing to those who walk through the doors.

 

I think churches *insisting* someone "get saved" in exchange for help are few and far between...they're the exception, not the rule. And those churches aren't what I'm talking about either.

[elizabeth]

I disagree as well. It isn't pride in the sense that they think they are too good for the programs. Would you want to go ask for help from someone who says, "Sure, I'll help you, but not until I tell you what a horrible, sinful person you are first."

 

I think we are to spread the Gospel - absolutely. The Gospel I read talks about feeding the poor, visiting the sick and those in prison, as well as caring for widows and orphans. You can spread the Gospel through your actions far better than words.

 

Besides, how many people so you think come forward and pray the sinner's prayer because they think they need to to get the help or hope that they'll get better treatment if they do.

 

Help the homeless, build a relationship, share Christ. Pray with people, talk with them, treat them as human beings made in the image of God, not projects.

As time goes on you have become one of the posters that I actively seek to hear from. You absolutely exude peace and kindness in your responses especially when you disagree with another persons pov. I respect that .

[lionfamily1999]

Every single person on the planet has a world view and creates their pov through the lens of that world view. This isn't solely a characteristic of those of reformed theology. You don't have to be reformed to believe we live in a fallen world. I think most Christians, reformed or otherwise, believe that. And, it's a stretch to assume that because Christians believe that homelessness is just one aspect of our fallen world that they don't do anything to help the homeless. Non sequitur and all that.

Well said :iagree:

[PineFarmMom]

This is exactly why many people don't turn to churches for help.

 

If I really believe Christ is who He says He is (and I do) then I'd be doing someone a HUGE disservice by trying to relieve all of what ails them in the world by my own devices before and instead of introducing them to the One who can heal them and help them more than I!! If I can lead them there by food and clothing, shelther, alleviating their suffering, then definitely, but if I don't show them who He is, then I've missed the whole point!! I realize many don't agree with that.

 

I'm not saying one instead of the other. I'm saying that they go together!! Relieving pain and suffering accompanies the message of Christ because Christ IS the answer to those problems!!

Edited May 12, 2010 by Texas T

[Alenee]

I disagree as well. It isn't pride in the sense that they think they are too good for the programs. Would you want to go ask for help from someone who says, "Sure, I'll help you, but not until I tell you what a horrible, sinful person you are first."

 

I think we are to spread the Gospel - absolutely. The Gospel I read talks about feeding the poor, visiting the sick and those in prison, as well as caring for widows and orphans. You can spread the Gospel through your actions far better than words.

 

Besides, how many people so you think come forward and pray the sinner's prayer because they think they need to to get the help or hope that they'll get better treatment if they do.

 

Help the homeless, build a relationship, share Christ. Pray with people, talk with them, treat them as human beings made in the image of God, not projects.

 

:iagree: I completely 100% agree with you. What I don't understand in your statement is this : It isn't pride in the sense that they think they are too good for the programs.

 

Ummm, that's exactly what pride is. :confused: Again, every single place offering help asks for something in return. Yes, definitely there are places who appear to insist on you praying a prayer or listening to an endless litany on your sinful nature, however, these truly are the exception...

 

I wonder how many people here in this thread commenting on churches like this have actually truly experienced this or truly know someone who has? I've worked in churches that help the poor and I've never once seen anything like this. I have to say, it sounds like hyperbole and disdain for anything religious in nature and if that's the case, this discussion can't really go anywhere.

[Orthodox6]

 

. Furthermore, it is worrisome to see reformed theology worldview as the pov through which one attempts to analyze and address social problems. Specifically those posters who see this as one aspect of the world and humankind's state of falleness.

 

I'm not making any sense out of this section. Best I can guess is that this writer does not believe in the Christian understanding -- (and this viewpoint is far from the property of Reformed theology, a theology 100% alien to me) -- of sin, want, poverty, etc. being post-Fall conditions of the world.

 

I sure hope that the writer is not assuming that just because this is the true state of the world, that Christians sit on their haunches saying, "Well, tough luck, buddy !" and doing nothing to help their neighbour. (Everyone is my "neighbour" !) If so, that would be an assumption not based in any reality I have encountered.

 

At any rate, I hope the writer will take time to clarify this murky passage.