Can we talk about husbands expectations

[Scarlett]

My friend, with the plumber husband, has what I consider to be a stifled marriage. He controls her every move…..she ASKED to go to the doctor with me today…….which I was fine with……but guess what? She told her husband she needed to go with me because I might need help driving home from the doctor.  Um, no.  But ok I will play that game. If you need to get away from your husband.

She talks about having to prepare three meals a day. About today particularly when he said she should stay home to cook him lunch. I realized…and told her….not once in 14 years has my husband said, ‘’go fix me a meal’.   I mean, I cook a lot of meals.  More when kids were home.  These days….shrug…..not so much.  He might say, ‘ what are we doing for dinner? ‘ I might reply with a plan or I might say, ‘no idea, what sounds good’. He cooks a lot without me saying a word.  And he isn’t angry about it.  Because he is a grown up man who can make his own eggs or sandwich.  
 

How do we deal with these men who are so demanding and selfish?

[Clarita]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

How do we deal with these men who are so demanding and selfish?

As the wife or as the friend? 

As the wife I don't know, I had a boyfriend who treated me that way and he did not become my husband. Some guys will say things that are red flags and it's a deal breaker for me.

As the friend, I just go along with the wife's lies and I don't say anything about them. I give my husband a heads up so he knows in case the husbands ever cross paths. 

[katilac]

9 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

 How do we deal with these men who are so demanding and selfish?

Who the heck is we? I ain't dealing with 'em, you ain't talking about me! 

((mangling and sanitizing tiktok quotes for your amusement))

[Arcadia]

23 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

How do we deal with these men who are so demanding and selfish?

My FIL demands pretty much similar. He only stops being so demanding when he retired and she was the one who worked. My FIL is eight years older than MIL and he was born just before WW2. He was and still somewhat is a male chauvinistic pig. There are plenty like him in my parents generation 🤦‍♀️ and we described them as MCP. My MIL was so envious of how nice her sons are to their wives until she decided she might as well go work because it is better than staying home with FIL and being “ordered around”.

[gardenmom5]

does she understand she's not one of Mudd's robots to be ordered about to meet his every whim?

Is she open to counseling?   She desperately needs improved self-esteem.

[Catwoman]

59 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

How do we deal with these men who are so demanding and selfish?

Honestly, I couldn't deal with a man like that because he sounds too controlling!

But on the other hand, in this case, we are only hearing about your friend's dh's negative qualities, and that may not be an accurate depiction of what he's really like as a husband. Is he a good person/good husband in other ways? Does your friend tolerate his behavior because he does a lot of nice things for her or because he puts up with her own personality quirks? Is he a good provider? Is he generous? Is he kind? 

Based on your description, my first inclination is to say that the guy is a jerk, but I don't know enough about him to really make that judgment, and the idea that he was hoping she would stay home to make him lunch isn't really that big of a red flag if they have lunch together every day and she always makes his meals without complaining to him about it. I would definitely be wondering if she is telling him the same things she's complaining to you about, or if she's acting like everything is fine at home, and her dh has no idea she's not happy with the way things are. If they have been doing things the same way for decades and she hasn't complained, it's hard to blame the guy for expecting things to stay the same as they have always been.

I guess the biggest question to ask is whether or not your friend is generally happy with him. If she was my friend and she was happy, that would be good enough for me, but if she was unhappy in her marriage, I guess I would suggest she get some counseling to help her figure out how she might be able to improve the communication between her and her dh.

[frogger]

If lying is the only way to get away from her husband and you can see if is very controlling that is a red flag for me that she may be in an abusive marriage. I am not making any judgements for a little post on the internet but she may end up really needing a friend. Often women in a controlling marriage will lose if they stay and lose if they leave. Like I said I am not making judgements, I just see a red flag. 

If you are interested in learning more about signs and ways to help I would reccommend "Is it Abuse" by Darby Strickland. It is a thoughtful take. 

 

[Melissa in Australia]

Why insert yourself in another's relationship?

Different couples have different ways of doing things. What works for some is not what works for others 

[Laura Corin]

How would I have dealt with such a man if I had been in a relationship with him? I would have lived with him before marriage and been able to make an informed decision. 

[Catwoman]

14 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Why insert yourself in another's relationship?

Different couples have different ways of doing things. What works for some is not what works for others 

That's basically how I feel about it, too.

I don't think most of us are in a position to know what really goes on behind closed doors in other people's relationships, even if we are pretty good friends with them. Also, one person's definition of a controlling spouse might be another person's definition of a caring and concerned spouse. In the end, it doesn't really matter what any of us thinks, as long as the couple is happy together.

I try to stay out of other people's marriages as much as possible. I figure it's none of my business. If I thought there was some sort of abuse happening, obviously I would try to help if I could, but fortunately I haven't been in that situation with any of my friends. 

[Eos]

2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

it doesn't really matter what any of us thinks, as long as the couple is happy together.

Her lying to get away from him doesn't sound happy. I agree with Frogger, high level control - "stifling" - is a textbook red flag.

 

4 hours ago, Scarlett said:

But ok I will play that game. If you need to get away from your husband.

 

This is kindly, but also perhaps codependent? This is an adult woman, not a teen with rudimentary skills. Please know this is offered with respect not snark. Maybe what she needs on the drive to your doctor is a straightforward "are you safe in your marriage? Do you need to talk to someone who can help you consider your options?" 

Edited June 6 by Eos

[HomeAgain]

Our own parents are our first teachers, and our culture/community is our second.  The way to change the behavior is to broaden out from seeing ways that only repress one party to seeing a variety of relationships and interactions, and learning our relationship with ourselves is worthy, too.  Submission is highly taught in some circles and I honestly think it's gotten slightly worse with online platforms and the shorthand name given to it: "Tradwife", implying that if you are not traditional (conservative) then you are the opposite of that.

I will also say this is a problem that homeschooling circles tend to add to very well.  Kids who are sheltered to only talk to their family or their church community or hand picked friends....these restrictions at the child level restrict the information they should be shown and form their views of the opposite sex and relationships in general.

 

Dh and I are heathens 😆.  We work better as a partnership than an unequal yoke of power, so it wouldn't occur to us to ask each other permission to help a friend.  Though I did find it amusing that his friends think I control everything and asked me for permission for dh to go on a week long trip before they asked him.  I said, whatever, but it's hockey season, and he may not want to.  They asked him before I got home and he gave them the same answer: it's hockey season.  I'm not dumping all that on her.

[Tenaj]

6 hours ago, Arcadia said:

My FIL demands pretty much similar. He only stops being so demanding when he retired and she was the one who worked. My FIL is eight years older than MIL and he was born just before WW2. He was and still somewhat is a male chauvinistic pig. There are plenty like him in my parents generation 🤦‍♀️ and we described them as MCP. My MIL was so envious of how nice her sons are to their wives until she decided she might as well go work because it is better than staying home with FIL and being “ordered around”.

I wondered if it was a generational problem.  My f-i-l is the same way, especially about meals.  And my m-i-l just scurries around serving his food, getting his meds, cleaning his glasses!  It drives me nuts!

He was at my house one day for lunch without my dh or my m-i-l at home.  I had a house full of little kids who pretty much knew how to make their own sandwiches and I was dealing with a fussy infant and I looked up and realized he was sitting at the table waiting for me to make his sandwich.  He was living with us at the time, knew his way around and I said, "If you want some lunch, the only way you are going to get it is to get up and go in the kitchen and make it."

I think my eldest at the time took pity on him.

I am known as his sassy d-i-l. 😬

Edited June 6 by Tenaj

[marbel]

7 hours ago, Scarlett said:

How do we deal with these men who are so demanding and selfish?

Generally speaking? "We" start by setting expectations during the dating/courtship period and early in the marriage. We don't ignore obvious red flags, thinking someone will change after marriage. We develop good lines of communication so that when some sort of reset is needed, we can talk about it without it becoming a problem. 

Just as an example: For most of our marriage I did all the shopping and most of the cooking. My husband made his own breakfast and lunch but I always was sure to have food around. I cooked dinner. Then he went through a period of unemployment, during which I went back to work. Obviously we needed a reset, and we worked it out. It wasn't easy because he was not in the habit of shopping and cooking dinner, and had to relearn some skills he'd lost. I  had to stop doing something I had happily done for years. It took some adjusting but it all worked out.

I mean, maybe that doesn't fit your friend's situation at all, it was just an example. Maybe he is a demanding jerk. The fact that she asked to go to the doctor with you points that way. I mean why would anyone ask to go to someone's doctor appointment with them? 

I get the feeling there is some backstory here that you've posted about before, but I don't remember anything about a friend whose husband is a plumber. 

[Arcadia]

1 hour ago, Tenaj said:

I wondered if it was a generational problem.  My f-i-l is the same way, especially about meals.  And my m-i-l just scurries around serving his food, getting his meds, cleaning his glasses!  It drives me nuts!

It is a cultural problem as well as generational problem. There are still people in my generation who thinks that wives have to wait on them. In traditional chinese culture, there is a “joke” that when a guy marries, the wife takes over his mom’s responsibilities of waiting on him. My MIL had to cook what my FIL wanted for meals so my husband and his siblings don’t have any say in meal choice growing up. My aunts and uncle’s wives were luckier. They can cook anything they like for meals, their spouses may ask for a favorite dish but they don’t dictate what their wives cook.

[Scarlett]

He is not all bad.  Most humans aren’t.  We like them as a couple but they are really going through it right now between her health and his lack of work.  I think most of the issues could be helped if he would get a job so that he isn’t right on top of her 24/7. 
They have been married a long time.  I think 35 years.  They have raised 2 kids.  
 

She definitely is not a shrinking Violet . She pushes back a lot, and he will apologize and act like he sees her point of view for instance when she tells him she is not her slave and he can fix his own lunch. But then he is right back at it literally the next day.  
 

Also she is on some very dangerous medicine right now that has a high suicide risk associated with it and her tolerance for his bs is at an all time low.  She literally told him she is about to leave him.  I have never seen her so ready to run away.  
 

And for those of you who have to always tell me I should be minding my own business……you may not have friends who confide in you but I do.  I am not going to tell her ‘don’t talk to me about your troubles.’ I literally don’t even comprehend the way some of you think.  
 

And when I say ‘how do I deal with this kind of controlling man’, I don’t know what I even mean…..probably what do I say to her  because I for sure as heck would not tolerate that and I would like to say the correct things to her.  

[Catwoman]

31 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

He is not all bad.  Most humans aren’t.  We like them as a couple but they are really going through it right now between her health and his lack of work.  I think most of the issues could be helped if he would get a job so that he isn’t right on top of her 24/7. 
They have been married a long time.  I think 35 years.  They have raised 2 kids.  
 

She definitely is not a shrinking Violet . She pushes back a lot, and he will apologize and act like he sees her point of view for instance when she tells him she is not her slave and he can fix his own lunch. But then he is right back at it literally the next day.  
 

Also she is on some very dangerous medicine right now that has a high suicide risk associated with it and her tolerance for his bs is at an all time low.  She literally told him she is about to leave him.  I have never seen her so ready to run away.  
 

And for those of you who have to always tell me I should be minding my own business……you may not have friends who confide in you but I do.  I am not going to tell her ‘don’t talk to me about your troubles.’ I literally don’t even comprehend the way some of you think.  
 

And when I say ‘how do I deal with this kind of controlling man’, I don’t know what I even mean…..probably what do I say to her  because I for sure as heck would not tolerate that and I would like to say the correct things to her.  

Ok, I can see what you mean. It sounds like both of them are going through tough times individually, and that's having a big effect on them as a couple as well.

Does he know she is at the end of her rope? Does he realize that her medication might be causing her to have some unusual (for her) thoughts? 

I feel sad for both of them. It seems like this is the perfect storm in terms of strain on their marriage. I guess if I were you and she asks what you would do in her situation, I would probably tell her not to throw her marriage away without a fight, and that she and her dh should really sit down and hash things out and share their feelings about everything that is going on in both of their lives so they can work together to support each other and make things better. Maybe they need counseling, but maybe 35 years together is enough that they can see the value in their marriage and they can handle things on their own. I think the main thing you might want to stress to your friend is the importance of communication, empathy, and supporting each other through tough times.

You know I'm not anti-divorce, but in this situation where both your friend and her dh are going through very stressful things, I would try to encourage them to work things out if they can, because once things straighten out, they might really regret having split up. 

(Edited to add: Please don't think I'm saying that your friend is the one who needs to bend over backwards to work things out with her dh. It won't work out if he isn't willing to take responsibility, too.)

Edited June 6 by Catwoman

[Farrar]

7 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Why insert yourself in another's relationship?

Different couples have different ways of doing things. What works for some is not what works for others 

I would argue the friend inserted Scarlett when she lied about why she was accompanying her.

[TheReader]

Not the same thing, but I have had 2 different friends in situations where I saw red flags. Well, one was the same thing exactly, actually; with her, they were married, had children (young children still), etc. I talked with her. Listened to her. Kept the line of communication open. Let her know that I supported her, whatever she decided to do.  Let her know "you realize that is not normal/common/healthy, what he's doing, right?" so that if she was questioning it, she would at least have someone, somewhere saying "you aren't wrong to think this is not cool."  If she pushed back and defended him, I would back down for the time being, because most important to me was keeping my friendship with her, and I couldn't do things to make HIM think I was a target for needing cut out of her life (in her case, her dh slowly isolated her from friends he deemed problematic). 

Through it all, I just stayed her friend, and if she shared some story about his ill behavior, I'd not hide my thoughts/opinions on it, but I'd share them in a way that still left room for both her realizing this wasn't okay and she should leave, or her still choosing to stay where she was.  So, something like, "Wow, really? Are you okay with that? I would be so frustrated by that/mad about that, I'm not sure I could put up with that..."  and then see where the conversation went. 

With my other friend, she wasn't married yet, and when she said they were marrying, despite all she'd shared with me, I was more blunt with her. Sat down over coffee and told her I wanted to help her be sure she was making the right decision for her. That she'd said XYZ about this relationship, which didn't sound like a person you'd marry/a relationship you'd commit to for life, and was she sure. That if she was sure, I'd not hassle her about it afterwards, but if she wasn't sure, it was okay to say no. I made clear I wasn't trying to decide for her or sway her, just make her think about it. She said she was sure, it was good, etc. I kept my end, didn't bring up the relationship any more after that. The marriage went about as I'd thought, she had the exact complaints during the marriage that I'd imagined she'd have, and so in that case, though, I just listened sympathetically. She did not want to hear "you shouldn't have married him" or "you should consider leaving" - she just wanted someone to vent to, remind her of the good things that had outweighed the bad, so that they still could/would, and she could remember she was happy.  So I did that. 

I share both of those to say "what do we do" is maybe different depending on what your friend is indicating she wants/needs out of you.  If she's generally been happy, and maybe this "ready to run" is a side effect of the medicine she's on, maybe she needs you to say "hey, you seem a lot more bothered by this than usual; have you talked to your doctor about the medicine and the side effects? Maybe the dose can be adjusted so the side effects calm down some? I'm worried about you..." 

If she's always been unhappy, but just stifling it, and what she needs is validation that it's normal to feel put-upon and frustrated, and that she's not awful for feeling that, then sure, be that person.  You'll have to determine if it's "validate her feelings, and encourage her to find a way to work through things" (ex -- "I see why you feel like that; I'd feel that way too - have you talked to him about it? what does he say when...? do you think he could be depressed bc of being out of work? stressed? would he go to counseling, or is that not something you're interested in?") , OR does she want/need someone to say "look, I get it; if it's time to leave....it's time to leave. You can't let his current situation make you feel guilty."    I don't know your or her spiritual stance/moral stance on divorce, marriage, etc., but I can see you care about your friend.   I think it comes down to -- be the sounding board she needs, and tailor what you say to what she needs in the moment. Share your concerns once, and then adjust from there based on her response. 

 

[marbel]

11 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Does he know she is at the end of her rope? Does he realize that her medication might be causing her to have some unusual (for her) thoughts?

Yeah that is the stuff I would be asking her. How much is she talking to him? Threatening to leave him is not the same as talking about the issue. 

I really wonder how much of his expectations are set by their past habits/routines. Like, if she has made lunch for him for some number of years and suddenly one day she says "I'm not your slave, make your own lunch" I would expect the guy to be taken aback. Of course it's not unreasonable for him to make his own lunch. But people have expectations based on history.

Like, my husband makes an egg every single morning for breakfast. Since I am back to doing all the shopping (no longer working), I always have eggs in the house. (Not just for him of course. We just use a lot of eggs.) If one day he got up and saw there were no eggs, he'd be bewildered. He might have a flash of annoyance because, for 25+ years, there have always been eggs. He would wonder why I hadn't said the day/night before "hey, we are out of eggs! You'll need to have something else tomorrow." It would do no good for me to say in that moment when he's asking me about eggs "I'm not your slave, get your own eggs!" 

Likewise, if we were in the habit of me making his lunch, and I was going to be out at lunchtime, I'd let him know ahead of time so he would know he was going to be making his own lunch. 

If he suddenly stopped mowing the lawn I'd be taken by surprise and if he responded to me asking when he was going to mow with "I'm not your slave, you can mow the lawn!" I'd be pretty mad. Because he has always mown the lawn; it'd be unexpected if he suddenly stopped. 

Again, I don't know if this is the exact situation but it sounds as if there are a lot of expectations and frustrations on both sides, and no one is really talking about them. 

Edited June 6 by marbel

[Arcadia]

49 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

She definitely is not a shrinking Violet . She pushes back a lot, and he will apologize and act like he sees her point of view for instance when she tells him she is not her slave and he can fix his own lunch. But then he is right back at it literally the next day.  

If it is not lip service, then it probably is a bad case of old habits die hard. 

[Jaybee]

Side note that may or may not apply here: Dh and I nearly always check in with each other before making plans with anyone--not for permission, but out of courtesy to see if the other had conflicting plans or expectations. 

[fairfarmhand]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

He is not all bad.  Most humans aren’t.  We like them as a couple but they are really going through it right now between her health and his lack of work.  I think most of the issues could be helped if he would get a job so that he isn’t right on top of her 24/7. 
They have been married a long time.  I think 35 years.  They have raised 2 kids.  
 

She definitely is not a shrinking Violet . She pushes back a lot, and he will apologize and act like he sees her point of view for instance when she tells him she is not her slave and he can fix his own lunch. But then he is right back at it literally the next day.  
 

Also she is on some very dangerous medicine right now that has a high suicide risk associated with it and her tolerance for his bs is at an all time low.  She literally told him she is about to leave him.  I have never seen her so ready to run away.  
 

And for those of you who have to always tell me I should be minding my own business……you may not have friends who confide in you but I do.  I am not going to tell her ‘don’t talk to me about your troubles.’ I literally don’t even comprehend the way some of you think.  
 

And when I say ‘how do I deal with this kind of controlling man’, I don’t know what I even mean…..probably what do I say to her  because I for sure as heck would not tolerate that and I would like to say the correct things to her.  

“So what happens if you say no I won’t fix your lunch”

followed with “have you told him you will prepare one meal a day and as a grown man he can deal with breakfast and lunch himself.”

if every day he asks, it means she still does it a lot of the time. The only way to “retrain” him is to stop. He expects it. So, she may need to be busy each day at lunch time.

for my family, since I’m not a total jerk, I’d write 2-3 lunch, breakfast suggestions on the marker board on the fridge and then tell him when he asks. “I wrote that on the fridge. Feel free to get those things or anything else you can think of”

[wintermom]

I don't get involved with my friend's marriages. My opions don't really matter. They are adults and choose their partner for a whole host of reasons. I listen and answer any direct questions, being careful to simply tell about my own personal experiences (without revealing anything I don't want to about private information).

Friendship is not a license to be a free amateur psychoanalist. I can't determine whether a person is actually experiencing emotional abuse, and I certainly don't think I would know the full picture of the relationship. Someone saying they fix meals for their dh and/or family isn't a red flag to me.

However, if a friend described any physical abuse, I'd be there to help out by providing relevant resources. 

Regarding the OP's last question, "How do we deal with these men who are so demanding and selfish?" I don't deal with this. My dh is my partner. We help each other. Sometimes we need more help, and sometimes we are able to give more help. 

[marbel]

24 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

“So what happens if you say no I won’t fix your lunch”

followed with “have you told him you will prepare one meal a day and as a grown man he can deal with breakfast and lunch himself.”

if every day he asks, it means she still does it a lot of the time. The only way to “retrain” him is to stop. He expects it. So, she may need to be busy each day at lunch time.

for my family, since I’m not a total jerk, I’d write 2-3 lunch, breakfast suggestions on the marker board on the fridge and then tell him when he asks. “I wrote that on the fridge. Feel free to get those things or anything else you can think of”

This is pretty much what I do. My husband has always made his own breakfast, except sometimes on weekends one or the other of us will make something special/for everyone, like waffles or a breakfast casserole. He has mostly made his own lunch but I let him know what leftovers there are or what his choices are. I guess there were some years I packed his lunch for work but that was a long time ago and we broke that habit. 

It does take retraining. I would need to be retrained (and retrain myself) if, say, I was going to take charge of maintaining our yard. I'm not in the habit of it. I mostly don't think about it, except to sometimes say "thank you for mowing (or whatever) today." Just like my husband often thanks me for making dinner, or being sure to have food around for his breakfast and lunch! 😄

This is an aside not really relevant (also not a criticism of fairfarmhand's advice, which is great), except that we are talking about communication: I would never tell my husband "as a grown man you can...." That to me sounds condescending and even infantilizing and it makes me twitch when I hear/read someone saying that. I would be so pissed off if my husband told me "as a grown woman you can..." and I would not be able to hear anything he said after that. Like, yeah, I'm aware of that. Let's discuss the actual issue. 

Edited June 6 by marbel

[Carol in Cal.]

I think I’d support that person in being assertive rather than snapping.

Like, a cheerful, You’re right, I’m not going to be making your lunch since I won’t be here.  Instead of an angry, Why would you expect me to stick around just to fix your lunch, being a grown ass man and all?  

I’d model that.

[Bootsie]

I do not deal with this type of situation. I would not think i "had to" cook three meals a day.  Even if a husband expects a wife to cook three meals a day, that doe not mean she has to.  Just because someone expect me to do something doesn't mean I have to.  If I keep doing something day after day, year after year, then it is not irrational for the person to have an expectation at some level that I will continue to do it.  Of course, that does not mean that I have to continue to do it, but the other person's expectation is probably not going to change until my benavior changes.  

 

[Catwoman]

29 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

I do not deal with this type of situation. I would not think i "had to" cook three meals a day.  Even if a husband expects a wife to cook three meals a day, that doe not mean she has to.  Just because someone expect me to do something doesn't mean I have to.  If I keep doing something day after day, year after year, then it is not irrational for the person to have an expectation at some level that I will continue to do it.  Of course, that does not mean that I have to continue to do it, but the other person's expectation is probably not going to change until my benavior changes.  

 

I agree. I think most of us would be responding very differently if Scarlett's friends were newlyweds, but after 35 years of her cooking three meals a day, it kind of makes sense that her dh would expect her to continue doing it. 

Obviously, as you said, the husband's expectations aren't going to chance until her behavior changes, and I also think it's important that she sit down with him and explain why she feels differently now than she used to, so he doesn't view her new reluctance to cook all of his meals every day as a punitive thing.

[Clarita]

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

And when I say ‘how do I deal with this kind of controlling man’, I don’t know what I even mean…..probably what do I say to her  because I for sure as heck would not tolerate that and I would like to say the correct things to her.  

My dad was kind of like this with my mom. They didn't deal with it for a long time and didn't really have to because he was also at work a lot thus, when he's at work it's OK because she didn't actually have to make all the meals or do all the stuff most days. So, not healthy but they never worked this out since logistically it was ok. 

I I think just be the voice that says which behavior from him you don't agree with and (if it should come up) which of hers you don't agree with. Although with her corrections I'd tread lightly until you know how much bluntness she would tolerate from you. 

I know from speaking to and interactions with my mom, when you feel like you aren't "normal" sometimes you just need someone to tell you whether you are being crazy and when your reaction makes sense. So far all you've said she does sounds fine. She pushes back a bit and yes she occasionally lies/fibs to get him off her back, but sometimes you don't want to have the "hard" conversations everyday.

[SKL]

I think some people are just in the habit of not sharing everything in order to avoid discussions that can get tense.  Theoretically, we should be straightforward and all that, but sometimes it comes the cost of our energy, especially when we're already dealing with difficult things.

I think you mentioned that he's recently out of work.  Maybe she's used to having lots of "alone time" / non social / quiet time, and actually thrives on that.  Having to be social all the time when that's not your nature or your experience is difficult.

As far as the "make my lunch," I assume he's not asking it in a mean way?  She can probably offer a different suggestion, such as, "I'm about to go take a shower.  The sandwich meat is in the middle drawer of the fridge, why don't you make a sandwich?  In fact, while you're at it, can you make me one too?"  He'll eventually get used to making meals happen, if she approaches it productively.

[rebcoola]

I think all you should do is be a sounding board for her.  It sounds like they have a lot going on and need to recalibrate the relationship now that they are a different season of life.  I have never dealt with a demanding man but I imagine you deal with them the same as any other demanding person set your boundaries and stick to them.

[Bootsie]

I don't know the details about this particular situation, but marriages and the interactions in long-term relationships are complex.  I know some husbands who would say "You should stay home and make my lunch..." in a very joking way.  I know some women who say "the grass needs mowing", "you should stay home and clean the garage", "when are you going to do the taxes"--with the expecation that the husband is going to do things they consider "man's work".   I know some women who like at some level for the husband to be dependent on them for meals because it makes them feel needed and useful.  So, it is difficult to know what all is playing into the dynamic.  

[wisdomandtreasures]

12 hours ago, Scarlett said:

How do we deal with these men who are so demanding and selfish?

Divorce the heck out of them and find someone who actually cherishes you and treats you with respect and dignity. BTDT. 

My ex chewed me out once because right after buying a (cheap, bottom-of-the-line) sewing machine (so I could continue my little Etsy shop since he thought $10,000 a year was adequate to support a family and earning more would cut into his time to go fencing, while I got no break from mothering and cleaning up after his slovenliness all day long), we were at Walmart and I saw a cute shirt on clearance fo a whole $3. He said all angrily "You JUST GOT a sewing machine!" But he could drain our savings that I pinched and saved like crazy to build up to buy fencing gear and chainmaille supplies because he thought people would actually buy his stupid chainmaille bracelets at the farmer's market. And other fun episodes like this... 🙄

[Annie G]

4 hours ago, SKL said:

 

I think you mentioned that he's recently out of work.  Maybe she's used to having lots of "alone time" / non social / quiet time, and actually thrives on that.  Having to be social all the time when that's not your nature or your experience is difficult.

 

This! 
When dh (extrovert) retired, he couldn’t wait to spend all his time with me.  I(introvert) had been raising kids and sometimes working outside the home since 1980. I wanted time alone, to do what I wanted. I was tired of making three meals a day for 40 years.  Needless to say, retirement was an adjustment, very much like becoming newly married. We had to work through compromises, and now it’s fine. But yeah, the lady might just feel suffocated by too much time with him and not enough time to do what she wants on her own.

[KungFuPanda]

17 hours ago, Scarlett said:

My friend, with the plumber husband, has what I consider to be a stifled marriage. He controls her every move…..she ASKED to go to the doctor with me today…….which I was fine with……but guess what? She told her husband she needed to go with me because I might need help driving home from the doctor.  Um, no.  But ok I will play that game. If you need to get away from your husband.

She talks about having to prepare three meals a day. About today particularly when he said she should stay home to cook him lunch. I realized…and told her….not once in 14 years has my husband said, ‘’go fix me a meal’.   I mean, I cook a lot of meals.  More when kids were home.  These days….shrug…..not so much.  He might say, ‘ what are we doing for dinner? ‘ I might reply with a plan or I might say, ‘no idea, what sounds good’. He cooks a lot without me saying a word.  And he isn’t angry about it.  Because he is a grown up man who can make his own eggs or sandwich.  
 

How do we deal with these men who are so demanding and selfish?

What happens if she stops? What happens if she treats him like an equal partner, gets a job, and stops catering to him like he’s a small child? My son, who was  VERY physically disabled, was able to do some meal prep and cooking with accessible equipment. I have no patience for able bodied adults feigning helplessness or worse, feeling entitled to that level of service. 
 

Honestly I’m more concerned about needing a Very Good Reason to leave the house. That’s sick and a sign they need therapy or a divorce. She needs to learn to support herself and he needs to learn to feed himself. 

[Catwoman]

18 hours ago, Annie G said:

This! 
When dh (extrovert) retired, he couldn’t wait to spend all his time with me.  I(introvert) had been raising kids and sometimes working outside the home since 1980. I wanted time alone, to do what I wanted. I was tired of making three meals a day for 40 years.  Needless to say, retirement was an adjustment, very much like becoming newly married. We had to work through compromises, and now it’s fine. But yeah, the lady might just feel suffocated by too much time with him and not enough time to do what she wants on her own.

That makes a lot of sense, especially in this case where it sounds like the dh hadn't been planning to be out of work, so he might not be in the most positive frame of mind right now and he might really rely on routine and things he feels he can control, even little things like having lunch with his wife every day and her cooking the meals like she always has.

I'm sure the wife isn't at her best, either, if she's battling health issues and dangerous medications, so she may be at the point where she feels that life is too short to not be able to do what she wants to do, so things like cooking 3 meals a day just aren't all that high on her list of priorities now. And as you said, she might need more time alone, and she wasn't expecting her dh to suddenly be at home all day.

Everything might be entirely different for them if he was still working and she was still healthy. Those are two huge stressors on a marriage, and unfortunately, this couple is dealing with both of them at the same time. I would be inclined to advise both of them to try to give each other a little grace while they get through all of this.

[Laura Corin]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

That makes a lot of sense, especially in this case where it sounds like the dh hadn't been planning to be out of work, so he might not be in the most positive frame of mind right now and he might really rely on routine and things he feels he can control, even little things like having lunch with his wife every day and her cooking the meals like she always has.

I wonder whether she used to cook every meal at weekends.  In her mind that was a weekend togetherness thing. He just assumed that was the norm whenever he was around. Neither can see what the issue is.

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Laura Corin said:

I wonder whether she used to cook every meal at weekends.  In her mind that was a weekend togetherness thing. He just assumed that was the norm whenever he was around. Neither can see what the issue is.

That's a good point. I was under the impression that @Scarlett meant the wife was cooking 3 meals a day every day, but I may have misinterpreted her post. If the cooking had only been a weekend thing in the past, that would make a big difference!

[SHP]

On 6/6/2024 at 12:14 AM, gardenmom5 said:

does she understand she's not one of Mudd's robots to be ordered about to meet his every whim?

 

Just wanted to say I love your reference 

[DawnM]

My BFF's father in law is like that.   And he lived with them for 7 years!   Demanding, nasty, expected to be waited on hand and foot, complained when it wasn't exactly HIS way, etc....

He is now in a nursing home, with dementia, and it has only gotten worse.   But at least it isn't in their home anymore.

He was a PASTOR!   Not a good one.....his wife had to work full time as a secretary to help with their finances, and then he expected her to cook and clean and do 100% of the chores, including lawn mowing.   AND, he was pastor of a small church, he spent most of his time on the la-z-boy watching TV.   It was disgusting.

I could not deal with that, EVER!   

 

[Scarlett]

22 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

What happens if she stops? What happens if she treats him like an equal partner, gets a job, and stops catering to him like he’s a small child? My son, who was  VERY physically disabled, was able to do some meal prep and cooking with accessible equipment. I have no patience for able bodied adults feigning helplessness or worse, feeling entitled to that level of service. 
 

Honestly I’m more concerned about needing a Very Good Reason to leave the house. That’s sick and a sign they need therapy or a divorce. She needs to learn to support herself and he needs to learn to feed himself. 

She does refuse a lot. But he is very badgering. Just won’t leave her alone until he gets his way. 

[Ginevra]

Well, one thing to realize is that she is part of whatever dynamic is happening there, whatever it looks like to you. They are bookends, or, at least, they started out that way and continue to play out the same dynamic because she has never put an end to it and he has never magically realized he’s a jerk. 
 

I would not be married to someone I had to lie to to go to the doctor with my friend. I would not be married to someone who said, “Fix that dinner, woman! I’m hungry!” I would tell him to go **** himself, right after I finished breaking out into peals of laughter. 
 

Unless he’s actually dangerous - in which case, problems require different types of solutions - there is no such thing as “she has to.” As long as she keeps behaving like she has to, it’s just a shitty relationship dynamic that she has allowed to continue. 

[Catwoman]

30 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

Well, one thing to realize is that she is part of whatever dynamic is happening there, whatever it looks like to you. They are bookends, or, at least, they started out that way and continue to play out the same dynamic because she has never put an end to it and he has never magically realized he’s a jerk. 
 

I would not be married to someone I had to lie to to go to the doctor with my friend. I would not be married to someone who said, “Fix that dinner, woman! I’m hungry!” I would tell him to go **** himself, right after I finished breaking out into peals of laughter. 
 

Unless he’s actually dangerous - in which case, problems require different types of solutions - there is no such thing as “she has to.” As long as she keeps behaving like she has to, it’s just a shitty relationship dynamic that she has allowed to continue. 

I agree.

Also, if she has been enabling his behavior for the past 35 years or so, it's not really fair that she is now gossiping to her friend (Scarlett) and complaining about him and saying she is ready to leave him. What she should be doing is talking to her husband and figuring out how to (hopefully) save the relationship. 

(I'm assuming, like you are, that he's not actually dangerous, but that he's just set in his ways and may not realize that his wife is serious when she tells him she needs change in the marriage. If he's actually dangerous, she is right to go to Scarlett and ask for help.)

[Catwoman]

40 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

She does refuse a lot. But he is very badgering. Just won’t leave her alone until he gets his way. 

Has he always been like this? 

I'm trying to figure out if she has been enabling him for all these years without complaining, or if he was generally an easygoing guy until he was out of work and probably not in a positive frame of mind (and he's trying to control her because he feels out of control elsewhere in his life.)

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm defending him; I just don't want to condemn the guy until I have a better understanding of what the marriage was like before she developed health problems and he ended up out of work. 

[Scarlett]

11 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Has he always been like this? 

I'm trying to figure out if she has been enabling him for all these years without complaining, or if he was generally an easygoing guy until he was out of work and probably not in a positive frame of mind (and he's trying to control her because he feels out of control elsewhere in his life.)

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm defending him; I just don't want to condemn the guy until I have a better understanding of what the marriage was like before she developed health problems and he ended up out of work. 

Things have often been difficult. He is demanding. Always has been. But it was more bearable when he had work and her health was good. 

[Scarlett]

5 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

I wonder whether she used to cook every meal at weekends.  In her mind that was a weekend togetherness thing. He just assumed that was the norm whenever he was around. Neither can see what the issue is.

It wasn’t the weekend. It was a Wednesday afternoon. 
The trouble is he won’t let her breath. Has to constantly be in top of her. 
I can’t tell you how many times I invite her to lunch and she calls to ask if he can come. 

[Catwoman]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

It wasn’t the weekend. It was a Wednesday afternoon. 
The trouble is he won’t let her breath. Has to constantly be in top of her. 
I can’t tell you how many times I invite her to lunch and she calls to ask if he can come. 

Does she want him to come?

[Scarlett]

Just now, Catwoman said:

Does she want him to come?

No!

[Scarlett]

I don’t know why she can’t tell him no. I can’t comprehend the dynamic. 

Edited June 7 by Scarlett

[Ginevra]

9 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I don’t know why she can’t tell him no. I can’t comprehend the dynamic. 

Probably because she thinks she’s responsible for his happiness and/or to keep him from ever being mad. It usually stems from a type of perfectionism. Thinking you can control someone’s emotions by never doing/saying something they don’t like.