Rant. I don't want to live nextdoor to my in-laws anymore.

[Ting Tang]

We have lived nextdoor to my in-laws for over 10 years now.  It has reached the point that for me, the negatives outweigh the positives.  My husband farms with his dad, and our lives are very intertwined.  I have written how my children basically feel they live at both houses, and we have struggled with boundaries.

My husband has a tendency to side with his family and to disregard the value of my feelings over theirs; maybe that is because he never really left and made a life of his own.  His mother has been fighting pancreatic cancer for two years.  But my sister-in-law's family visits often.  Well, excluding her husband--he stays home, and I get that!  Sometimes it is one of them, two of them, or the whole family.  There were three separate visits from their family members this last month.  Next there will be Thanksgiving together, and then she is planning to come back a week later.  A week later is my daughter's birthday weekend, and they have been trying to make plans for things to do that weekend over me.  Now, when they visit, they spend the night--or usually multiple nights.  So, the kids think it is always a big party.  I feel like my life is always getting disrupted, and since they work in schools and go to school, germs are always flying our way.  I understand wanting my sister-in-law wanting to visit her mother.  She always makes these sappy social media posts about "helping them," but really, she just unwinds and had an outing with friends this past weekend.

Adding to the madness, is a "getaway" trip to a neighboring state with all of them, a day after Christmas.  I don't want to go.  It's too much togetherness for me.  It's not that they are all horrible people, I just feel like our lives are not our own.  My eldest son even said he wished we could do more as just our own family.  We also go to Minnesota in the summer altogether for 10 days.  Again, just too much.  

Moving isn't practical. There are not too many houses on the market, and we have a great interest rate and low mortgage payment.  My husband said he would prefer to build a home, but I know that is going to cost a fortune if we did that.  But I feel like that is my only "out" from this situation.  If I could go back in time, I wouldn't have made this choice.  We were here first, but I was still okay with the decision back then.  But that was when I had only two kids who were babies.  

They are not bad people, but I really don't like this anymore.  Does anyone else have this situation? 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Ting Tang

[Innisfree]

Honestly, this sounds more like a relationship issue than a home location issue. It sounds like your dh expected that, by marrying him, you were joining his family, rather than expecting that the two of you were establishing your own family which had priority. He needs to learn to hear your opinions and take them seriously. I’d insist on counseling, at least for me individually, if he won’t consent to go with you.

[Innisfree]

Adding that it would be a very difficult dynamic to live with. I’m sorry you have to deal with this, and hope you can find a solution.

[gardenmom5]

I agree with @Innisfree, this sounds more like a relationship issue with your dh.  He needs to put *his own* family first- NOT his foo.  His wife, his children - come first.

[Katy]

It sounds extremely frustrating but also temporary. 2 years is a long time to live with pancreatic cancer. Is she going to be one of the rare ones that pull through? 

I would flat-out refuse to go to Minnesota in the summer. I would send DH with the kids and go on my own vacation alone if I needed an absolute break from people. 

[Innisfree]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

would flat-out refuse to go to Minnesota in the summer. I would send DH with the kids and go on my own vacation alone if I needed an absolute break from people. 

Absolutely this, and maybe the same for the after-Christmas trip. But I would strongly advocate for a nuclear family trip instead of one of those others. Your kids want you all to have your own family trip, and you only have so many years to take those trips.

[MercyA]

That would drive me bonkers. 

I wouldn't go on the Minnesota trip, and if there were any kids who didn't want to go, I'd let them stay home, too. Same goes for the "getaway" trip. I'd just say something like, "We need some downtime with just the [x number] of us" or "I just need some time alone to unwind. I hope you all have a great time!" 

[prairiewindmomma]

I agree that this is a husband/boundaries problem. I have BTDT. I am wondering if counseling for you first might be helpful. 
 

What happens when you state (in advance) that you would like to take a separate family vacation? Does he hear you? Is he willing to entertain the idea? Do you name a place and set a budget?
 

Have you discussed the day to day dynamics with the inlaws?  (So glad SIL is coming, but we have our own plans that day….or now that the kids are getting older, and the curricula is ramping up, we are setting school hours of 9-3).

Sometimes we don’t advocate strongly enough for ourselves because of our own natal family dynamics. We feel taken advantage of, but we haven’t done our part in articulating and advocating for that. (And sometimes the people we are dealing with are so enmeshed we get railroaded. This is why counseling IRL is so important.)

 

 

[Faith-manor]

37 minutes ago, Katy said:

It sounds extremely frustrating but also temporary. 2 years is a long time to live with pancreatic cancer. Is she going to be one of the rare ones that pull through? 

I would flat-out refuse to go to Minnesota in the summer. I would send DH with the kids and go on my own vacation alone if I needed an absolute break from people. 

Agreed. Just put your foot down and refuse to go. Enough already.

I had this dynamic 30 years ago when we lived a couple of miles from his folks. His father was very dramatic and insisted on constant togetherness, dropping by our home ALL THE TIME unnannounced, demanding Thursday evening and Sunday dinner attendance at their house, you name it. And if it didn't work with my teaching schedule, there was drama drama drama.

Mark laid down the law with his dad, but it was soooo ugly. We had only been there one year when he was offered a job in Michigan, and we moved. His mom always held it against his dad that the reason we moved was because he was always in our business, always coming by and not respecting our schedule or boundaries, and always making drama when we wouldn't give in. So ya. I get it. No fun to live next door.

Here is where the rubber meets the road. You need a schedule for your kids. Clearly, if the kids are making comments, the kids are probably not happy either. So you figure out what you are willing to do. Maybe that is visit once a week with the kids and have sister in law at your home only once every other month while mom is dying, and if she wants to come more often, she sleeps on the couch at the inlaws or gets a hotel. Whatever is reasonable for you to do that will get things into a routine for the kids, and more privacy and downtime, you do. Hubby is a grown man and can learn to live with it. I would actually be willing for things to be rather uncomfortable if not chilly between the two of you IF he refuses to listen to reason. My guess is he loves you and the kids and will come around fairly quickly. If not, ask to see a marriage counselor a few times in order to hash it out.

[Arcadia]

41 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

I understand wanting my sister-in-law wanting to visit her mother.  She always makes these sappy social media posts about "helping them," but really, she just unwinds and had an outing with friends this past weekend.

I am far from my relatives. Many just want to see me in person and chat but would not want me to “babysit” them. They would expect me to meet my friends and/or get some personal shopping done while in town. I don’t make social media posts though.

As to living next door, my maternal aunt lived in the same building as my parents. She drove me to school and we ate lunch and dinner at her home (my mom worked shifts as a nurse). It all comes down to healthy boundaries. My dad’s sister lived in the adjacent building and she overstepped boundaries all the time. While my dad doesn’t side with his sister, he does tolerate her horrible behavior. My dad’s oldest brother who also lived nearby would tell her off. 
Since your husband farms with his dad, it would be harder to “split”. My husband’s dad expected my husband to be at his beck and call even after marriage. My husband reached his limit one day and blew his top. His dad was more “careful” after that.

I would not participate in the extended family tours. My husband and I have used the “excuse” that we can’t afford to tag along (we really didn’t have the budget to). He pays his share of his parents tour expenses. It helps that my husband doesn’t like to tour. Your older children are old enough to say they want to just stay home. My FIL is similar in behavior to Faith-manor’s FIL which is why a few blow ups now and then were needed. MIL is similar to FIL but in a backhanded way because she grew up in a patriarchal family and marry into one. 

 

[Ting Tang]

Thank you all so much for your thoughts!

Re: the Minnesota trip.  I have been going on this trip since 2010.  Almost every year, it has resulted in some kind of fight before or during the trip.  He points out all the reasons why it's a great trip for our family and how much the kids love it, basically discrediting my reasons for not wanting to go. I do wonder how much this will all last.  Of course, I want my MIL to pull through, but my husband has already said I will regret what I've had to say about the Minnesota trip when she passes away.   I've not said much about this upcoming Christmas trip for that reason.  But I start to feel sad when I realize I am almost 43, and my younger days are limited to--and I'm not even very young.  When we were dating and even married early on, I guess I never thought that it would be an annual thing. I never even thought to ask, and I am not sure I was ever told. 

I'm going to need make a schedule.  But yes, sometimes I just want downtime and privacy.  I don't want to be busy just to avoid the togetherness.  I'd probably go on that after Christmas trip with just my own family, but my only excuse for not going with all of them is I do not want to be around them so much, and that is not good enough for them. I'm not sure how to articulate that to them.

 

 

 

 

 

[Innisfree]

1 minute ago, Ting Tang said:

my only excuse for not going with all of them is I do not want to be around them so much, and that is not good enough for them. I'm not sure how to articulate that to them.

 

You don’t need an excuse. You have valid reasons. You’re tired, and you need some downtime. No need to mention them at all. 

[thatfirstsip]

You don't need to have reasons to want to skip the Minnesota trip. You can just not want to go, and that's enough. If your husband really thinks it's important for him and the kids to go, they can go! And since you don't want to go, you can stay. 

If your husband can't accept your not wanting to go on a vacation, and is willing to ignore your stated desire and insist you go with them, that's a really serious marriage problem. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Can you go on the MN trip and do what you want to also? Could SIL come stay with your kids and you take a weekend trip with your dh?

The overall sense that I have gotten from your posts is that your life is out of balance. Dh is oriented to his natal family, and your ds is chasing after that. You are oriented towards your dd’s activities. I dont get the sense that you and your dh are very highly aligned and bonded.

Can you work on your relationship with your dh without making him feel torn between you and his family? 

[Ting Tang]

He always says how much he wants me to go, but I feel like I do a lot of sitting around and waiting for him while he is out fishing, then I feel obligated to socialist with them for 10 days straight.  We tow a boat, and he is very opposed to bringing two vehicles, so I just always feel kinda trapped.  It's the middle of nowhere Minnesota. It's on a reservation, and honestly, that depresses me--the white people own the resorts, and the resorts are surrounded by burned down homes and poverty.  It's sad.

Correct. We are not aligned or bonded these days when it comes to how we spend our free time or what the kids do.  😞 He is not into kid extracurriculars at all, even with the boys.   I do think we need to work on having fun in our relationship, too.  Everything revolves around them, and I thought moving might put up a physical barrier at least in daily life.

[kbutton]

We lived in a town with tons of family as well as lots of family that lived away (we have a lot of relatives). It doesn’t have to be this way.

I think I’d approach the extra trips as some kind of appeal for your own vacations and how if you can’t do it all, then it’s important to have at least some trips for your nuclear family.

I would not play host as often. You can limit that too.

 I think you can have rules for your kids going back and forth if your parenting is being undermined, or your kids are taking advantage of grandparents, but I think rules are about all you can do. We were generally encouraged to not overstay our welcome, but I had young grandparents who were still working and/or parenting when I was a kid.

We had another dynamic at play—one grandmother didn’t like events to be anywhere but her house. It had pros and cons; the pros that my folks didn’t have to host every event, but the cons were that I almost never had cousins over to play.

Good luck, and I would consider the counseling angle. 

[Bambam]

It's hard if your DH is not on board with choosing some immediate family only activities over extended family. 

I'd be done with hosting other people. I'm assuming there are hotels or they can stay with in-laws?  Or I would only agree to hosting sister-in-law once/month or something like that. Again, this is difficult if your DH is not on board with you too. 

It does sound very difficult with your in-laws so close + health issues. 

I think I'd ask my dh to go to counseling with me. If he wouldn't go, I'd go alone. 

I'm sorry you are in this situation, and I hope you can find a way to find an acceptable compromise. 

I will say that when my kids were younger, I'm pretty sure my DH felt like his parents were the only ones worth of visiting. I took my kids to visit my parents alone 85-95% of the time.  It was hard. He didn't think they should go to my mom's memorial service, but it was fine to go to his dad's (it was a year later, so the kids were older).  Looking back now, I wish I had stood more firm about visiting my mom/dad/sisters and just gone more. But when you are busy with little kids, homeschooling, life in general, everything, it is hard to keep perspective, and time and location interfere.  So no real help with this info, just sympathy. It is hard to combine two different individuals and raise up a family - it is hard work. 

[Faith-manor]

36 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

He always says how much he wants me to go, but I feel like I do a lot of sitting around and waiting for him while he is out fishing, then I feel obligated to socialist with them for 10 days straight.  We tow a boat, and he is very opposed to bringing two vehicles, so I just always feel kinda trapped.  It's the middle of nowhere Minnesota. It's on a reservation, and honestly, that depresses me--the white people own the resorts, and the resorts are surrounded by burned down homes and poverty.  It's sad.

Correct. We are not aligned or bonded these days when it comes to how we spend our free time or what the kids do.  😞 He is not into kid extracurriculars at all, even with the boys.   I do think we need to work on having fun in our relationship, too.  Everything revolves around them, and I thought moving might put up a physical barrier at least in daily life.

Moving can definitely be a good change if that is an option. It will solve some of the privacy and boundary issues. It won't change other aspects of not being connected like his disinterest in fun time as your own family unit or investment in his relationship with you. That will remain no matter where you go. However, it might also be an easier problem to tackle if you don have the constant disruption of his relatives in your life. 

I will say that Mark and I have a rule about not being "tourists" on reservations if we can possibly help it. It is very upsetting to see the continued horror perpetrated on Native Americans. I think you should just stand your ground. You are not going. And if the kids do not enjoy it, I would stand up for them as well and refuse to make them go. Have a quiet Christmas at home. They probably see enough of their dad that it isn't q but deal to not go with him on the vacation.

He will pushback because he isn't used to a wife who establishes a firm boundary. That's okay. Just walk away from his rant. Be firm every time he brings it up. He will eventually get used to it. If he doesn't, then ya, that is going to take some serious counseling to fix.

[Harriet Vane]

This isn't actually a desire to break up. Rather, it's a desire for more balance. I'm sure his fishing trip feels fabulous for him, but waiting around for him while he's out all the time having his brand of fun is not fabulous for you. Your desire for balance is completely reasonable, and his disrespect and all-or-nothing expectations are what hurts.

Can he hear you if you point out that his position is all-or-nothing, while you simply want balance?

I strongly recommend counseling. Whether or not he will go with you, start asserting boundaries. Get individual counseling for this to help. The first step is to say Minnesota not this year.

And if he dares make this about you-don't-like-my-family, you repeat every.single.time: I love your family and I cherish the relationships. I want togetherness for our family too. It's not all or nothing.

[saraha]

I have totally been where you are, down to farming together. Command family meals weekly no matter what we had going on, command holidays that SIL organized, group vacations the whole 9 yards. About 20 years in, I had a full on melt down complete with absolutely refusing to get in the car. I told him all of our young years were spent doing what his mom and sister wanted to do and because of that, I have never hosted a single holiday just for our kids and now that they were moving out and growing up, did he expect them to continue organizing their lives around his family? And from that moment on, I made a schedule for my kids and either opted in or opted out of family activities as I wanted to. Basically I boxed him out of having a say about what I did with my time/life. It was a long hard road, but he did finally come around. I heard it all, “it’s embarrassing if you don’t come” “you’re just jealous” “they do so much for us” “you’re acting like a child” “fine, we’ll go without you”

I decided it was worth it to see if we would make it through or not. I am so glad to say we did, but I was prepared to not. I was tired of not being heard and being ordered around just because I was the youngest sons wife. In this last couple of years it has still come up occasionally, especially when dh’s mom got dementia. But it is soooo much better

Edited November 7, 2023 by saraha

[thatfirstsip]

Your reasons for not wanting to do the Minnesota trip are valid and rational and justified.

 

But again, you don't need to have good reasons, and you don't need to convince him that you're justified in not wanting to go. You can just not want to go, and so you don't go. If he can't respect that very simple boundary - you don't do this thing you really don't want to do - then you're not in an equitable marriage.

 

[Bootsie]

I married an only child--so I don't have these issues; but I have cousins who live like you describe.  It seems to work well for them, but it would drive me crazy.  Is there a way to frame things of asking for a few things you would like or deciding on a few things you can do that you would be interested in?  Things like "I really would like to take the kids to State Park X for a weekend camping trip.  Can we set aside a weekend over the next six months to do that?"  In other words, state something very specific you would like to do as a family activity without mentioning that you do not want to go to Minnesota, spend time with his family...  Or, "I would really love a day to stay in my jammies and watch old movies; if you want to take the kids on a getaway the day after Christmas, it would be a great day for me to get to enjoy that!"  Or perhaps, "Your family is wanting to go to X for a getaway the day after Christmas.  I have looked and there is a coffee shop there I would like to try.  Could we plan on setting aside an house on Monday morning to go check it out.."

[Arcadia]

2 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

He points out all the reasons why it's a great trip for our family and how much the kids love it, basically discrediting my reasons for not wanting to go. I do wonder how much this will all last.  Of course, I want my MIL to pull through, but my husband has already said I will regret what I've had to say about the Minnesota trip when she passes away. 

 

1 hour ago, Ting Tang said:

He always says how much he wants me to go, but I feel like I do a lot of sitting around and waiting for him while he is out fishing, then I feel obligated to socialist with them for 10 days straight. 

It might be similar to my in-laws mentality of having us present at gatherings to make them look good. Your husband might just want you and your children to be there for face saving reasons. Using his mom’s ill health to “threaten” is emotional blackmail. My husband’s brother and his wife would use similar verbiage with other people.

[dsmith]

I live with my mil, and usually everything is ok, but there are boundary issues at times. Luckily dh and I are on the same page as far as our nuclear family being him, me and our son. We have our own spaces in the house. Occasionally we have drama spillover with sil, her kids and ex and that can make me feel like I want out! We just had an issue with this recently, and dh was made out to the be the bad guy in this situation. Mil uses him as a shield against sil, and I understand why she does it, (sil can be a raving lunatic with no boundaries) but it makes life unpleasant at times. I'm hoping sil moves far away after her youngest graduates. 

I think you need to have a long heart to heart with your husband. It doesn't sound like your feelings are being taken into account, and that needs to change. There's a time and place for big family gatherings, but it doesn't always have to be that way. Time should be carved out for you, your husband and your kids to be together without the rest of his family. I'd go insane in your shoes!! I'm an introvert, and it seems to be getting worse as I get older. We try to make the effort to do things with just us, and it helps us deal with all the rest. 

[Frances]

I don’t think changing any of this is going to be easy, but you have to try for the sake of your marriage and your sanity. I’d focus first on the next MN trip, as holidays can be so triggering for so many people. Maybe try to present it as you need a break from homeschooling, running the house, EC activities, etc and this is a great opportunity for you to get that while he has some special time with his kids and his family.

Do you have opportunities to get out of  house on your own or with friends? If not, I’d also start trying to make that a priority either when your husband or one of the various in-laws can watch your kids. Maybe start pursuing one outside interest that allows you to develop a friend group completely separate from his family with regular times you are away so that you can then expand to missing trips.

Would your husband be open to the two of you going on dates when all of the family is around (SIL, etc) and available for babysitting or even while you are in some of these trips? It seems like a great time to take advantage of built in babysitters and maybe start to get to the heart of some of your issues. If not, then use the time to go out in your own and do what you want to do for a few hours. Marriage counseling might also help if he is willing.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Frances

[rebcoola]

Definitely a boundary/relationship issue.  We lived on the same block as my parents for years and it was great but we didn't do everything with them or go on trips or spend every holiday with them.

 

I would absolutely refuse to do the fishiing trip, the after Christmas trip and I would look into the moving.

[Heartstrings]

2 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

always says how much he wants me to go, but I feel like I do a lot of sitting around and waiting for him while he is out fishing, then I feel obligated to socialist with them for 10 days straight.  We tow a boat, and he is very opposed to bringing two vehicles, so I just always feel kinda trapped.  It's the middle of nowhere Minnesota.

Why does he always get his way and you never get yours?

[amyx4]

I'm not sure if this will help because I'm unclear on how much your family (you and dh and kids) do together beside the two annual vacations? Do you get some fun in during each month?

I understand self-employment. I also have dear friends that live on a farm where the whole extended family lives. However, the houses are built around the farm not next door to each other.

I created a funny word/phrase/rhyme for when I want us to do something just dh & me and the kids. That phrase means we're going to do something fun with just us and everyone needs to be there. We all vote on the day, time, cost, event, thing we're going to do. I have older kids, so with school and sports and work etc. I try to plan something every 6-8 weeks or so. It doesn't need to be expensive, it just needs to be just us. (I didn't create this till after the toddler pre-school years were over.)

For a long list of reasons, dh had a hard time doing something fun. He was very, very reluctant at first. But I was very matter of fact about it . It way past time for our family unit to create some funny happy memories.

In our younger days, he was adamant that "there would be no vacations, even stay-cations." I understand his foo and understand why he said those things. It took alot to get him to move away from that position and he regrets ever saying that.

Not that you mentioned this but are you and dh able to get out and do something fun just the two of you? My dh took even longer to come around to this idea also but now we'll do something probably every other weekend. (Doesn't have to be expensive.) When I insisted we start going out it was another long drawn out debate but it probably saved our marriage.

Edited November 7, 2023 by amyx4

[SKL]

I get living with / very near people and having it control your life to a point.  I have that too, but for different reasons.

What kept me sane was planning for things my kids & I could do away from home.

And just remember that you're allowed to do things that you want to do.  You don't have to apologize or rationalize.  It's enough that you want to do a thing.

Maybe finding a non-family group to hike with or a reason to hang out at the library.  Or visiting your biologicial relatives.

[fairfarmhand]

When things come up 

"So, dh let me get this straight. You would prefer to hurt and upset me, your wife. The mother of your children. The woman you sleep beside and who will care for you as you get old over upsetting your mother, father and sister. Because when you decide x, y, and z. That is what you are choosing. Just so you are clear here. And if you move forward with this, I'll know where your priorities are."

Your dh has probably never considered it from that viewpoint. 

 

[fairfarmhand]

15 minutes ago, amyx4 said:

 

Not that you mentioned this but are you and dh able to get out and do something fun just the two of you? My dh took even longer to come around to this idea also but now we'll do something probably every other weekend. (Doesn't have to be expensive.) When I insisted we start going out it was another long drawn out debate but it probably saved our marriage.

This is an excellent point.

And OP, I would fill your life with FUN and happiness for your own family to the point that your dh starts thinking "Geez. I'm missing out on fun with my own family because my mother beckoned,"

If he objects because mommy called, just say "Well, you can choose to skip time with our own family if you wish. We will miss you. It's entirely up to you." 

[saraha]

38 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

This is an excellent point.

And OP, I would fill your life with FUN and happiness for your own family to the point that your dh starts thinking "Geez. I'm missing out on fun with my own family because my mother beckoned,"

If he objects because mommy called, just say "Well, you can choose to skip time with our own family if you wish. We will miss you. It's entirely up to you." 

 

40 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

When things come up 

"So, dh let me get this straight. You would prefer to hurt and upset me, your wife. The mother of your children. The woman you sleep beside and who will care for you as you get old over upsetting your mother, father and sister. Because when you decide x, y, and z. That is what you are choosing. Just so you are clear here. And if you move forward with this, I'll know where your priorities are."

Your dh has probably never considered it from that viewpoint. 

 

Oh how I wish I had had these when I was younger. I think for me, I only had my crazy mother and sister, so having this big new family was a lot of fun the first few years, so I let a bad pattern get started. Then I didn’t have the words or the nerve to stand up for myself. My mom had five different husbands, I had no idea how to disagree in marriage, I thought you got along or got divorced. So I just didn’t make it a hill to divorce on. Until the day I had a full on melt down. I had to be brave enough to face the possibility of divorce or to continue where we were at. It wasn’t easy, but fortunately for me my dh was committed, so we’ve been working on it.

@Ting Tang I don’t have any advice, but I do sincerely hope you are able to get what you need.

[Grace Hopper]

I’ve not read all the way through, so forgive me if I repeat. 
 

Re the Minnesota trip, this is to be fair something that will be a core memory for your children. So I wouldn’t sit out myself, or have the kids sit out. BUT I WOULD use it as a bartering tool. “I’ll agree to Minnesota again IF….” And I’d ask for an additional number of equal vacation days for a trip for only your nuclear family (you, dh and kids). If that means shortening MN days, so be it. I’d also state I want to see the arrangements made and deposits paid asap to make sure he wouldn’t renege on the arrangement. It also helps if there’s an alternate destination your kids express interest in. If you can’t afford two trips a year (we probably couldn’t when the kids were young), then start this next summer alternating years that you go to MN vs your own family travel. 
 

Re the sister, does she stay at your house or your parents’? Because she shouldn’t be allowed to stay at your place. Does she treat you/your family like free childcare? I’d start taking a firm stance not to let the presence of the cousins corrupt your schedule. Are y’all getting school work done or do you have to push it off when they’re in town? Because I would be staunch about my schedule. But, I have the l personality to pull that off. We had similar issues when we lived near cousins who also homeschooled but in a more…relaxed…way. I had to draw the line with not only extended family but also dh. He could not be the pushover when his sibling or spouse called him instead of me (which did happen and he had to get used to reinforcing our boundaries). 
 

Re them planning your ds’s birthday party over your head, that would totally light my fire and I would swiftly let them know that I had plans and would share them when ready, they’re not to try to plan this. Again, someone else wanted to always make l my kids’ bd cake and I had to forcefully decline - I mean, I could have said yes to that but always considered it a privilege to bake special cakes myself for my kids special days. 
 

A couple of caveats, first I know some family cultures are just fine with everyone living communally wrt extended families. However, it’s not mine and whether or not it’s yours, OP, it’s obviously not working for you now. I agree with others that the problems will only resolve by first working to help your dh understand how upsetting this is to you. Second, if his mother is terminally ill, bending for a season may be something to consider. But honestly, I’ve never heard of a person (ok maybe theologian Tim Keller) to have a pancreatic cancer diagnosis and happily travel and plan birthday parties for years. My own dear uncle passed just 4 days after his diagnosis. (I’ll go back thru and look to see if you shared more about mil’s illness).

[Grace Hopper]

6 hours ago, Innisfree said:

You don’t need an excuse. You have valid reasons. You’re tired, and you need some downtime. No need to mention them at all. 

100%!

All you have to say is that you won’t be going (or honestly don’t say anything in advance, just don’t show up). If you need to tell the kids something, simply say you don’t feel up to it. No excuses. No need to say what you’ll be doing instead. If your dh feels the need to explain, let him come up with something. 

[Grace Hopper]

6 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

He always says how much he wants me to go, but I feel like I do a lot of sitting around and waiting for him while he is out fishing, then I feel obligated to socialist with them for 10 days straight.  We tow a boat, and he is very opposed to bringing two vehicles, so I just always feel kinda trapped.  It's the middle of nowhere Minnesota. It's on a reservation, and honestly, that depresses me--the white people own the resorts, and the resorts are surrounded by burned down homes and poverty.  It's sad.

Correct. We are not aligned or bonded these days when it comes to how we spend our free time or what the kids do.  😞 He is not into kid extracurriculars at all, even with the boys.   I do think we need to work on having fun in our relationship, too.  Everything revolves around them, and I thought moving might put up a physical barrier at least in daily life.

Does he perform any childcare/meal prep/that sort of activity when you’re in MN? Because it sounds like one big reason he wants you there - otherwise kidminding could infringe on his vacation. IMO all the more reason to rebel against going. 

[kathyl]

6 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Does he perform any childcare/meal prep/that sort of activity when you’re in MN? Because it sounds like one big reason he wants you there - otherwise kidminding could infringe on his vacation. IMO all the more reason to rebel against going. 

My dh's mother used to dictate how we spent all our vacations, via dh, for well into our 30's.  We were living about a 9-hour drive away at the time.  Thanksgiving rolled around and dh and his mother 'planned' for us to show up at their house - again.  I told dh I was staying home, and he could take the kids with him if he wanted to go.  Of COURSE he had to take them because that was the only reason his mother wanted us there.  So he went, kids in tow, 9-hour drive one way, and spent Thanksgiving with his relatives at his parents' house.  

Meanwhile, I stayed home and had a blast!  I was able to clean once, and the house stayed clean the entire time.  I did most of the Christmas shopping.  I got takeout.  I got caught up on sleep. I read books.  Etc.

When he got home, he was exhausted.  As were the kids.  And dh, dc, and I spent all our holidays together, mostly at home, after that. 

(The only thing I kind of regret is that I let my kids go visit these particular relatives without me.  They weren't/aren't nice people, but I didn't realize just how bad they were at the time.)   

[fairfarmhand]

There are some men out there who can’t imagine that they could have fun without their mothers or siblings involved. 
lack of imagination.

but…op, you know how to give him fun in a way that his foo can’t. When you plan things for you ur own family and you and your dh, make it incredible. And then because your love tank is so full be ready for some *tea* and talk about how refreshed you are and renewed. 

[katilac]

7 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

 We tow a boat, and he is very opposed to bringing two vehicles 

Nope, that is completely unfair. You have every right to bring a vehicle! 

I'd say to ask him how he thinks it's fair for you to be stuck while he is away with the only vehicle, but it's probably not worth it. Just tell him you are taking a second vehicle. It's not a discussion, it's a decision. I am bringing my own vehicle. 

[Ting Tang]

So the fact we are all sick from the germs she brought prompted me to post this. She’d mentioned how much sickness was floating around at her school where she teaches, and the kids said she was coughing more than usual. I cannot tell you how many times this has happened. Once, she found out my niece had Covid and still came down! She does stay nextdoor, but it’s still a disruption in our lives. She doesn’t take advantage of us or anything like that… just too much all the time…she likes to make sure her kids get farming opportunities. It’s just my entire social life seems to be around them. Multiple weekends, weekdays, and vacations. I don’t even feel like my husband uses my labor for the MN trip; it’s just more time we’re not really interacting with each other and are around the in-laws if we are together. Once at a restaurant on vacation, he didn’t even  sit with me and the kids and then made a remark about how I didn’t order the kid drinks—I’d thought he had. I feel like one day that will be me—tears, with the inability to get into vehicle on the way to a vacation. I just know few other women would do this, yet he paints me as the bad guy. I thought if we didn’t live nextdoor, we could be more of a unit. I can’t see a way out without a fight.  I agree it’s wrong to tell be I’ll regret this when MIL passes, but maybe she’ll also live a long time, and I’ll have wasted so many years being unhappy. Probably just in time for my middle aged ailments. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Ting Tang

[Innisfree]

The fact is that her death may not change the dynamic at all. Your dh is comfortable with this situation. He’s getting exactly what he wants, at the expense of you ever getting what you want. When you complain, he gives you a guilt trip, and then gets what he wants.

To change this, you’re going to have to be very clear about what you need and want. Then don’t give in. Insist on him at least acknowledging that you have a right to help direct how family time is spent. Then decide what you want to do. With a lot of luck, that might be a discussion the two of you can have together, with him willing to act on your wishes. If he won’t discuss it reasonably, then you just stake out your position and act on it yourself. Make your own decisions about how time is spent, and line up therapy, at least for you.

[katilac]

54 minutes ago, kathyl said:

So he went, kids in tow, 9-hour drive one way, and spent Thanksgiving with his relatives at his parents' house.  

 

When he got home, he was exhausted.  As were the kids.  And dh, dc, and I spent all our holidays together, mostly at home, after that. 

(The only thing I kind of regret is that I let my kids go visit these particular relatives without me.  They weren't/aren't nice people, but I didn't realize just how bad they were at the time.)   

Heh, love it. 

Visiting them without you the one time was more than offset by visiting them less as the years went by, I'm sure. 

43 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

There are some men out there who can’t imagine that they could have fun without their mothers or siblings involved. 
lack of imagination.

but…op, you know how to give him fun in a way that his foo can’t. When you plan things for you ur own family and you and your dh, make it incredible. And then because your love tank is so full be ready for some *tea* and talk about how refreshed you are and renewed. 

I wouldn't be willing to make our immediate-family-only plans incredible in order to outshine extended-family plans. We're going to go to the zoo and toss a ball at the park and have game night, and some of this is going to be more fun for the kids in the moment than it is for us, and that's okay. And I'm not going to be refreshed and renewed and serving hot beverages just because my husband is doing some very basic husband-and-father duties, going on some activities that I planned. 

I catch zero flies 😄

Edited November 8, 2023 by katilac

[Heartstrings]

10 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

just know few other women would do this, yet he paints me as the bad guy.

He knows that almost no other women would be putting up with this.  Making you the bad guy is manipulative.  And selfish.  

[katilac]

11 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

So the fact we are all sick from the germs she brought prompted me to post this. She’d mentioned how much sickness was floating around at her school where she teaches, and the kids said she was coughing more than usual. I cannot tell you how many times this has happened. Once, she found out my niece had Covid and still came down! She does stay nextdoor, but it’s still a disruption in our lives. She doesn’t take advantage of us or anything like that… just too much all the time…she likes to make sure her kids get farming opportunities. It’s just my entire social life seems to be around them. Multiple weekends, weekdays, and vacations. I don’t even feel like my husband uses my labor for the MN trip; it’s just more time we’re not really interacting with each other and are around the in-laws if we are together. Once at a restaurant on vacation, he didn’t even  sit with me and the kids and then made a remark about how I didn’t order the kid drinks—I’d thought he had. I feel like one day that will be me—tears, with the inability to get into vehicle on the way to a vacation. I just know few other women would do this, yet he paints me as the bad guy. I thought if we didn’t live nextdoor, we could be more of a unit. I can’t see a way out without a fight.  I agree it’s wrong to tell be I’ll regret this when MIL passes, but maybe she’ll also live a long time, and I’ll have wasted so many years being unhappy. Probably just in time for my middle aged ailments. 

Fights aren't the worst thing in the world. 

Go on the Montana trip this year if you've agreed to do so, but bring a second vehicle. Period. The end. I am bringing a second vehicle. 

I don't know how old your kids are, but school would be one reason I'd be putting more firm boundaries in place. I'm guessing you homeschool, and that's why they think the kids can do all the things and all the visiting, all of the time? No, the kids are going to stay home on school nights, because homeschool is still school. Why the change? Because school gets harder and takes longer every year. 

Plan ahead! Nature (and in-laws) abhor a vacuum, and they will suck up all of your time unless you already have plans. Surely there are some things his parents wouldn't even want to do - water park? movies they would hate? games they don't like? Plan, plan, plan. Spend money on advance tickets if that's what it takes to keep dh from pressuring you to cancel, if that's what you need to do at first. 

You can do things with your own family and still spend time with mother-in-law. Don't get sucked into a false dichotomy. 

[marbel]

9 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

My eldest son even said he wished we could do more as just our own family.  

Has he said this to your husband, or just to you?  (I read the whole thread so hope I didn't miss something about this.)

If your husband has not heard this, he needs to. Best from your son, not you. Then, separately, talk to your husband about his future relationship with his children if he keeps going the way he's going.  I can tell you from my own experience (sibling, not my own kid) that your husband will not be happy with the result. 

[Clarita]

1 hour ago, Ting Tang said:

I can’t see a way out without a fight.

Fights aren't the worst thing. DH and I have had some productive fights. Sometimes a spouse just has to see how unhappy the other one is. Sometimes it just has to be said all the ways each spouse is unhappy and unsatisfied. 

1 hour ago, Ting Tang said:

 I agree it’s wrong to tell be I’ll regret this when MIL passes, but maybe she’ll also live a long time, and I’ll have wasted so many years being unhappy.

You'll also regret many years of being unhappy and not saying anything about it. You'll be sad when MIL passes. I don't think people regret just not spending enough time with someone when they pass as much as people regret not spending more quality time with someone. Quantity does not equal quality. 

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

Nope, that is completely unfair. You have every right to bring a vehicle! 

I'd say to ask him how he thinks it's fair for you to be stuck while he is away with the only vehicle, but it's probably not worth it. Just tell him you are taking a second vehicle. It's not a discussion, it's a decision. I am bringing my own vehicle. 

I would also insist on a separate vehicle if there were other activities in the area. From what OP describes it sounds rather remote. 

[Faith-manor]

OP, if you do go on the trip, I urge you to take games, books, movies, projects, whatever that you and your kids like, and engage with each other, hunker down with popcorn and a movie, time spent away from just sitting in the main area of the house so all of you have down time from the relatives. Take a laptop to watch movies on or research fun things to do.

I also encourage you to plan a vacation for you and your children. Hubby is welcome to come if he wants, but if he doesn't, MEH, you are going anyway. Go and enjoy making memories with your children. Don't let him talk you out of it. Also, do not volunteer for any work. 

It sounds like the relationship has been on the rocks for quite a while. Your dh is selfish and entitled. He is going to balk at having his fiefdom challenged, but that is okay. You are not responsible for him getting angry because you are no longer willing to take ill treatment from him.  That is all on him. Just try to be calm and pre-rehearse some phrases that you wash, rinse, repeat on a loop.

 

[Shoeless]

After MIL dies, the situation won't improve. It will only switch to "FIL/SIL/the niblings are having such a hard time without MIL.  It would be mean to not include them/go on that trip with them/see them every weekend/etc". 

Put your foot down now. You get to be happy, too. 

[Clemsondana]

I don't have a solution for the issue of living next door, other than to limit involvement based on what works for your family.  In the families that I know, grandparents that are more involved, like seeing the kids daily, have more of a parental vibe at times - they ask about whether school work or chores are done, for instance.  Grandparents that see the kids once a month can just be the 'fun grandparents'.  If the SIL is there regularly, then it shouldn't be a big deal to do a ton of visiting every time she comes.  You can carry on your normal routine and maybe have a meal together.  But, this has to be an agreement with your husband.  How does he feel about the importance of school and when it should get done, for instance?  Even when my in-laws would come stay with us, the kids and I would get up and do school for a few hours, or grandma would help by doing reading with the younger, or checking math while I worked with the older.  The goal was to get done so that they could do fun stuff together.  It would be really hard if you didn't have that dynamic with them, so you have my sympathies.  

As for the trip...10 days is a long trip to take every year - it's a lot of vacation time.  What if you went for part of it - maybe taking side trips on the way up and the way back so that you spent a few days getting there and a few days getting home and then 5 days in the middle with the bigger group?  For full transparency, my family takes a week-long beach trip every year.  My husband is fine with going, but he doesn't really love the beach like I do.  We do things that we both like (walking on the beach in the morning and evening) and then spend parts of the day separately.  I'm on the beach, he's catching up on sleep with long naps, sometimes working, he takes a kid to the batting cages or to play video games, etc.  He does need the break in routine, but is never going to like chilling on the beach with a book like I do.  We go out to a nice restaurant one night as a couple, which he likes, and he sometimes takes a kid to an all-you-can-eat buffet for lunch, which I don't want to go to.  In other words, while the vacation is to some extent a 'my family' thing, he's got things that he enjoys doing.  Last year he and a kid went to a minor league baseball game.  Everybody is having fun, but we aren't all together all of the time.  Would it be possible for you to take the vehicle and take the kids on a 2 day side trip to explore something interesting in the area?  We've done the occasional day trip while at the beach, taking the kids to see something interesting nearby.  

To be fair, we have also taken trips that are more his preference.  He likes sightseeing trips, so I plan road trips when we have time.  Some are just 2 nights and some are longer, depending on the kids' schedules.  And when he's been busy or out of town, I've taken the kids to do things on my own.  I know that it would be ideal for the whole family to do something together, but is there something that you could do with just you and the kids - day trips or 1-2 nights?  State parks, museums, world's biggest ball of twine, factory tours, a public pool that has lots of slides to play on?  Apparently my claim to fame is that if you throw a dart at a map, I can find 2 days worth of stuff to do in the area.  🙂  

[Terabith]

Honestly, the dynamic of the Minnesota vacation being held on a reservation where the white people own a resort and the indigenous people live in poverty would be enough for me to say no, I refuse to support that.