Home'scool Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 For any of you who remember my situation, I have been estranged from my two adult daughters for about two years now. The divorce was hard on them and since COVID and Trump and all the fall-out from that, we have been estranged. It is like they just could not speak to me if I did not have the same opinion as them and if I did not get in line with everything they believed and wanted. They basically "canceled" me. It's been awful. *There are a lot of details I have left out because it would fill a book. Just assume that I am giving you a small, but true, accounting of the situation. I have tried over and over to acknowledge their feelings. Please don't judge the back story* They moved to California last summer (I am on the East Coast) so I have not seen them since then. We text for birthdays, etc., but that is it. We tried family counseling and that was a bust. I apologized for my part in the things they were not handled well. I think the counselor was seriously confused as to what the problem was because I kept acknowledging their feelings but they would still be mad because I would not change to be a Liberal etc. My youngest daughter (age 25) texted that she wants to talk tonight via Skype. She is coming to town this weekend and wants to get together. I think Skyping first is a good idea because I don't really know where here head is at and what the situation will be like, and I don't want our first interaction to be in a public place. My goal for this Skype is to speak to what has gone wrong. There are still a lot of outstanding issues that have caused hurt and severe disrespect to not just me but the whole family. I am hoping that once we can talk it out we can maybe move on to getting together in person. I am just not sure how to start the conversation. I don't want to come off like a bully and say "I want an apology" because that is not who I am and would be counter-productive. But I do want to be clear that this is not just a "chat" to catch up. I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 What is her goal for the Skype, since she was the one to request and initiate it? 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 It sounds like she wants to briefly meet in a public place and you want to have a Skype “rehash the past/what has gone wrong” convo first. I don’t think those two things are the same level of contact. I will meet my MIL in public for a light “catching up” conversation but there is no point in trying to rehash the past with her. She emotionally attacks and abuses and tries to manipulate. There is no “solving” her dysfunctional behavior that I can do. I can offer light contact, and that is it. Do you want that, any contact at all, or do you need the rehash? Because I think if you demand the rehash it is not going to go as you would like. 28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home'scool Posted May 23, 2023 Author Share Posted May 23, 2023 I guess I need to rehash because I need to know if she has changed her mentality. It was always so awkward when she would come over because it always ended in fights. I am afraid to take a baby step with her if her boundaries are still all over mine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) Personally, I would let her talk and go from there. Don't waste this time disagreeing. Just say "I hear you" if that's the best you can say about her comments. If she demands for you to agree with her on anything, you can say something like, "I'm good with agreeing to disagree. That is my boundary." It's possible she has something really important to share with you - for example, an engagement, pregnancy, serious illness, big move. Again, I'd let her speak rather than trying to take control of the discussion. Edited May 23, 2023 by SKL 47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReader Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 I think I'd let her guide the conversation, and see where it goes. You'll be able to get a feel for what she wants once she calls/skypes, and can decide then if it's worth meeting in public when she's in town, or not. I think if you try to take charge of the conversation, when she's requested it, she may feel attacked just from the get-go without even hearing what you have to say -- sort of a "See, Mom, you won't even listen to me first before.....(accusing me, challenging me, etc.)" I'm sorry it's down to this; I hope it goes well. 32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Could you keep the conversation light and just have some handy phrases to put boundaries up if she turns it into a rant? Based on all of the posts in the past, I don’t know that you guys are going to see eye to eye on the past. Can you let your hurt and anger go and begin again? And if you both aren’t ready to interact in a healthy way then end the convo positively and lightly, leaving the door open for the future? Like a “I love you, I miss you, I don’t want to fight with you, so I think I am going to duck out. I don’t want things to end like this, but I think it’s healthier for us both if we try again later.” 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halftime Hope Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, TheReader said: I think I'd let her guide the conversation, and see where it goes. You'll be able to get a feel for what she wants once she calls/skypes, and can decide then if it's worth meeting in public when she's in town, or not. I think if you try to take charge of the conversation, when she's requested it, she may feel attacked just from the get-go without even hearing what you have to say -- sort of a "See, Mom, you won't even listen to me first before.....(accusing me, challenging me, etc.)" I'm sorry it's down to this; I hope it goes well. This is beautifully written; thank you! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Are you the parent that tried to tell your adult daughters what/how they should post on social media because they posted political things you didn't like as things were falling apart? You don't have to answer that, I am just thinking of that so if that isn't you, maybe my thoughts won't be relevant. I do think for some tumultous parent/adult child relationships, time and space can be a gift for a reset. If gives young brains time to learn to be independant and fuse some brain cells. It gives a parent practice at not expressing their opinion on everything a young adult does with their life. It may give you an opportunity to come back together to build a new adult-adult relationship. If you want to heal this relationship, I would open myself up for a first step. I'd keep it light and short, and I'd cut it short if things took a turn. Look at it as an opportunity to catch up on what you've been doing without deep diving or fighting. "How is CA?" "I'd love to see pictures of your dog/apartment/vacation" "What do they have you doing at work" "Have you been surfing much lately". I'd also have something to wrap it up "I'm so glad we had this time together. I hope we can chat again soon." I'd take it slow and keep it upbeat. 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Honestly, I would not lead with your hurt. I agree you should find out what her goal is. My mom never lets a disagreement about politics go. She feels cancelled because people won’t “listen to her,” but she means agree with her. She absolutely won’t stop arguing. She is mystified why I don’t have the same problems with SIL in discussing politics. It’s bc, if I disagree, I say it once and then change the subject if she keeps at it. SIL gets the hint and moves on. Mom won’t. I tell mom I won’t discuss politics with her and I don’t. It’s like she’s always raring for a fight. So I don’t engage. I share this to say that O think you need to let this go at this phase. Once you’ve rebuilt a trusting relationship with your dd, then you can share your hurt and brainstorm how the two of you can communicate better. Not wanting to discuss politics or listen to your view is not canceling—if that’s what you mean. For years politics have been considered a taboo subject for polite society. It’s too easy to take things personally and get defensive. Your job is to be her cheerleader. Focus on her positives. 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almondbutterandjelly Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Gently, if you are not willing to let this be a superficial catch-up chat, you may lose her. Forever. Some times things are insurmountable and must be ignored or swept under the rug and just moved past. If you want a relationship. 33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 It sounds like you're asking "How can I rehash the same arguments that caused my daughter to go no contact, but do it in a way that will make her admit how wrong she was without cutting me off again?" You can have a relationship with your daughter or you can keep trying to prove that you were right; which is more important to you? 30 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Hopper Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Ok I’m gonna be a bit frank. She is the one initiating the conversation. Your responsibility to the conversation is to LISTEN. I don’t believe it’s a good idea to start formulating your side of the conversation before you even hear what she has to say. Then, WHATEVER it is, do not go to defensive mode. No matter what. If she needs help, help with compassion. If she wants a relationship, you can perhaps, with diplomacy, give some broad boundaries you need (ie we do not discuss politics). If I were in your shoes, I’d be taking a stance of humility with the goal of reconciliation. Many find that hard to do. It all depends on what your honest priorities really are. I know you’ve been through tough relationship stuff the past decade but if you want to save this relationship, listen first. 20 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAgain Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 I'm not going to tell you that you are right or wrong in wanting closure. I will tell you that for years, you have complained on this board about how "woke" your daughters are, how they make mountains out of molehills about things like being harassed, how they don't feel safe with you because of your political view, and how you have dismissed them in turn. I think if you want to know what went wrong, you should start by taking some time to reflect on your own words and deeds. You need to be satisfied with not getting an apology, because it seems unlikely that you will get one. So you need to find a way to look for closure that does not include an apology. 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kathyl Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Home'scool said: ...... I am just not sure how to start the conversation. I don't want to come off like a bully and say "I want an apology" because that is not who I am and would be counter-productive. But I do want to be clear that this is not just a "chat" to catch up. I So don't start it. Let her. And you may just have to be satisfied with a superficial relationship for a while. Which means light topics, nothing with triggers for either one of you. Stuff like that. You can do this. Edited May 23, 2023 by kathyl 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 21 minutes ago, kathyl said: So don't start it. Let her. And you may just have to be satisfied with a superficial relationship for a while. Which means light topics, nothing with triggers for either one of you. Stuff like that. You can do this. It may take time to rebuild trust on both sides. I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who has gone through an estrangement with an adult child. Ours involved way more than what you have described (wild accusations, violence toward us.) I had to just forgive and chalk it up to my kid's mental illness. And I had to apologize for my part in order to have relationship, which was important for her physical and mental health. I had to let go of being right in order to be able to have any influence at all. We still don't agree on lots of things and we don't talk about them for the most part. I've seen some softening of her views, which gives me hope that she will continue to evolve as she matures. I remember being a young adult who thought I knew everything and my parents were wrong and clueless. But I've had to reexamine my views as well and I have changed my mind and softened my stance on many things. I was moderately conservative. Now, I lean much more liberal. K really opened my eyes to many things that I had been viewing from a lens of my white suburban middle class bubble. It wasn't enough to give to charity or participate in a project here or there, I had to be more charitable in my heart and work for the things that could really make a difference for people who were not like me. I don't live that perfectly, but she recognizes that I am trying. My youngest has been a loving teacher on how to do that. ETA: We were no contact for over a year. I only knew K was alive by following her bank account and sneaking some $$ so she wouldn't starve. Then we started to have gradual contact where I was able to meet her to give her groceries. Then she started to allow us to know where she lived. Then she had a traumatic event and we had her move back in. Lots of trepidation on our part, but it was a life or death issue. It has taken over 5 years to get to this point. @Home'scool I understand how distressing this all can be. I wish you all the best. Edited May 23, 2023 by dirty ethel rackham 18 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Home'scool Posted May 23, 2023 Author Share Posted May 23, 2023 I truly appreciate all the feedback, even the frank ones 🙂 I don't want to rehash things .... that will just bring us back to the insane merry-go-round. I guess I just need to know that she won't lash out at me again, or that she won't do something hurtful again. Just like I don't want to rehash old arguments, I also don't want to reopen communications if she is going to be hurtful again. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Home'scool said: I truly appreciate all the feedback, even the frank ones 🙂 I don't want to rehash things .... that will just bring us back to the insane merry-go-round. I guess I just need to know that she won't lash out at me again, or that she won't do something hurtful again. Just like I don't want to rehash old arguments, I also don't want to reopen communications if she is going to be hurtful again. In most relationships, someone will eventually do something hurtful. It’s pretty par for the course. I’m not sure how you would evaluate whether she will be hurtful again. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Home'scool said: I truly appreciate all the feedback, even the frank ones 🙂 I don't want to rehash things .... that will just bring us back to the insane merry-go-round. I guess I just need to know that she won't lash out at me again, or that she won't do something hurtful again. Just like I don't want to rehash old arguments, I also don't want to reopen communications if she is going to be hurtful again. Covid and Trump wreaked havoc with some of the relationships in my extended family (not me or my dc or DH). It isn’t 2020 and Covid crazy is over. Many people are embarrassed about how extreme they acted (on both sides). I had something similar typed out as @Terabith. I’ll take it a step further, be ok with being hurt. People hurt each other. We just do, intentionally or unintentionally, it just happens. For me to have relationships with certain people I have had to humble myself and be ok with not being right and have had to grow thick skin. Is a relationship with them worth that? If there is nothing otherwise redeeming in the relationship then that is another story. 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 I strongly encourage you to let her lead the conversation. And not to bring up things that she doesn't bring up. If your goal is to work on your relationship with her, take baby steps & just listen. And tell her that you love her. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 3 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said: It sounds like she wants to briefly meet in a public place and you want to have a Skype “rehash the past/what has gone wrong” convo first. I don’t think those two things are the same level of contact. Maybe, and maybe not. It can also be a wanting to be sure dd can be polite and not attack mom in a public place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt. Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 36 minutes ago, Home'scool said: I truly appreciate all the feedback, even the frank ones 🙂 I don't want to rehash things .... that will just bring us back to the insane merry-go-round. I guess I just need to know that she won't lash out at me again, or that she won't do something hurtful again. Just like I don't want to rehash old arguments, I also don't want to reopen communications if she is going to be hurtful again. It sounds like you are scared. It's really worth it to just be honest with yourself about that fear, and about the risks you are willing to take in order to be in this relationship. You really can't have a magic conversation that will guide your thinking as to whether or not she is likely to lash out and/or hurt you again. For one thing, it's pretty much 99% that you *will* get hurt in this relationship again. For another thing, there is no conversation that will result in the kind of data that would even allow you to assess what's likely/unlikely about her lashing out. And for the last thing, for you to start a conversation where you ask questions, then evaluate her on the basis of how acceptable/hurtful her answers are... that's *you* doing one of the things that *she* is very much going to be wary and watching to see whether *you* do 'that' any more. It's leading with your worst quality. It's like shaking hands at a job interview and saying, "It's nice to meet you too. You should know that my greatest workplace weakness is that I don't really like this industry and I can't wait to move on to some other kind of work. Also, I'm planning to be a slacker in the meantime." You're judgy. That's one of the things they don't like. As a judgy person myself, I know that you can't stop yourself from evaluating situations and forming opinions... but you can stop yourself from sharing such things in casual conversations. It's not small talk. And it's not relationship building material either. It's your inner life, and that's fair, but it's called an 'inner' life for a reason. People who have family members who hurt them deeply sometimes decide that they can't take that risk again, and they aren't going to keep trying in the relationship. If you are that scared of the potential of pain from your kids, maybe it's you that may need to think about taking a break from them. That would be fair enough, if it's true. It's a serious, but reasonable, use of your personal boundaries. What's not fair is putting them through a process like the one you think you have the opportunity for in the Skype chat that your daughter requested (which would be a premeditated total disregard for your daughter's freedom to have boundaries and goals of her own). So, I'd say either give her (mental) permission to have not changed at all, and to show you that by saying something hurtful, and go in knowing that's a realistic possibility... or don't have this conversation at all. If you do talk, and she does get hurtful, or if she voluntarily shows you certain attributes that tell you you aren't in a place of emotional safety, step away at that point. If it happens, you can keep it small. Even so, it's a risk. Either take it, or don't take it. You can't get ahead of it in the way you suggest. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet2ndchance Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Home'scool said: I truly appreciate all the feedback, even the frank ones 🙂 I don't want to rehash things .... that will just bring us back to the insane merry-go-round. I guess I just need to know that she won't lash out at me again, or that she won't do something hurtful again. Just like I don't want to rehash old arguments, I also don't want to reopen communications if she is going to be hurtful again. If she starts being hurtful, you can kindly say "I'm sorry but I cannot allow you to treat me this way." and change the subject. If she doesn't take the hint, you can tell her that you cannot continue the conversation as is and you would love to speak again when things have cooled down. And hang up. You can't know for sure that she will or won't be hurtful. But you can steer the conversation to a degree if it does become hurtful. And you can end it, graciously with and olive branch for further fruitful communication, if it becomes too much. I too have an estranged adult daughter who said some very hurtful things to me. I am able to see her comments for what they are, her age and immaturity and her current environment, but it does still hurt. I would be over the moon if she wanted to contact me again BUT I do have my boundaries for my own personal safety and I'm not afraid to enforce them, even with my own child. We can't have a relationship if all she wants to do is parrot those around her. And while I am willing to listen to a little to find out where her head is, I do have my limit and I'm willing to tell her when enough is enough for me. I will not argue with her. Arguing with a young adult, to me, is akin to arguing with a toddler. It is a lost cause. All I can do is listen, see if I can find something we can work on and if there isn't anything, tell her we need to continue this conversation when things have calmed down. I need a plan to going into these things. I understand the need to feel prepared for the conversation and all the ways it could go sideways. But I think the most important thing is to remember a young adult is like a toddler in many ways and while you shouldn't talk down to them, remember that for most this is just a phase. Maybe she has reached the end of her phase in want to make amends, maybe she wants to put the past behind both of you and start over, maybe she just wants to argue. Who knows what her motives are, all you can do is prepare for what you can forsee and go from there. (((hugs))) It's hard I know, I'm right here in the same boat with you. Edited May 23, 2023 by sweet2ndchance spelling 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 I wouldn't bring up the past or any differences at all. I doubt either of you is ready for that yet. I'd express happiness in seeing her. I'd listen. I'd find things to say that show her that you care, whether it's congratulating her on a new job, being happy for her new relationship, or whatever. Focus on the things deep within her that you care about and believe to be true. If she tries to bring you into heated conversations about past differences, you can politely decline. I don't know your back story, but often an apology is worth a thousand words, in case you owe her one. (It might be years before she recognizes that she owes you one as well.) As far as how to start the conversation: "How are you?? I'm so happy to see you!" I will say that being a parent of adult children is a very humbling experience! I hope it goes well for you tonight. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) She is initiating with you. Say nothing. Listen. If you say anything at all say these things: I’m so happy to see your face and hear your voice. Thank you for this. I’m listening. I have not seen you or heard you in a long time and I know in the past I’ve hurt you. Because I don’t want to risk hurting you again, and because I’m sorry for that hurt - I’m just trying to listen right now. And I will take time to process and ponder what I hear long after this call. side note that I would not mention - Love does not mean accepting or understanding. It just means love anyways. We do not get closure on relationships. I think closure is a myth. Edited May 23, 2023 by Murphy101 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann.without.an.e Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Another thought, some people in my family had to make a pact to “agree to disagree” and not discuss certain topics. Both parties should consider, for the sake of the relationship, keeping certain opinions to themselves. It has helped our situation a lot. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freesia Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 15 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said: Another thought, some people in my family had to make a pact to “agree to disagree” and not discuss certain topics. Both parties should consider, for the sake of the relationship, keeping certain opinions to themselves. It has helped our situation a lot. Adding a bit to this—my nephew is the sort who won’t agree to disagree bc it is wrong for him (in his mind) to leave anyone with wrong ideas. To him that would be like accepting their ideas. But, do you know what? I can say my piece and then stop discussing anyway. Just listen and let her be wrong—even about you. Show her she is wrong. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scholastica Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 You’ve gotten great advice. I’m sorry they’ve been so hurtful. Some other things to think about, individually or in combination. They have another parent who treated you poorly for many years. They may have learned how to treat you from that parent. You may be triggered by them acting like your former spouse. They may have learned/inherited the other person’s dysfunctional patterns. Any or all of these can contribute to the relationship difficulties. Definitely let her lead, don’t expect an apology. Stay neutral on all Her positions. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 It helps to understand the difference between hurt and damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Home'scool said: I guess I need to rehash because I need to know if she has changed her mentality. It was always so awkward when she would come over because it always ended in fights. I am afraid to take a baby step with her if her boundaries are still all over mine. I would definitely not rehash. In fact, what I would do is to refuse to discuss any of the hot button topics gently but very, very firmly. "I'm sorry, but I don't want to discuss those topics anymore. Tell me more about your life." I'd guess you'd have to say that at least 20 times over an extended time period to get through, but it's worth doing. That's a firm boundary. The thing with boundaries is that they really only work when they're about your actions. You can always refuse to discuss something. No one can make you talk about something you'd rather not talk about. Edited May 23, 2023 by Not_a_Number 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Hopper Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said: I would definitely not rehash. In fact, what I would do is to refuse to discuss any of the hot button topics gently but very, very firmly. "I'm sorry, but I don't want to discuss those topics anymore. Tell me more about your life." I'd guess you'd have to say that at least 20 times over an extended time period to get through, but it's worth doing. That's a firm boundary. The thing with boundaries is that they really only work when they're about your actions. You can always refuse to discuss something. No one can make you talk about something you'd rather not talk about. Rather… No one can make you talk about something you choose not to discuss for the sake of relationship preservation - no matter how much you might want to talk about it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 5 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said: Rather… No one can make you talk about something you choose not to discuss for the sake of relationship preservation - no matter how much you might want to talk about it. Yes. Good clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 I would go with ‘least said, soonest mended.’ 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 5 hours ago, Murphy101 said: She is initiating with you. Say nothing. Listen. If you say anything at all say these things: I’m so happy to see your face and hear your voice. Thank you for this. I’m listening. I have not seen you or heard you in a long time and I know in the past I’ve hurt you. Because I don’t want to risk hurting you again, and because I’m sorry for that hurt - I’m just trying to listen right now. And I will take time to process and ponder what I hear long after this call. side note that I would not mention - Love does not mean accepting or understanding. It just means love anyways. We do not get closure on relationships. I think closure is a myth. This. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannah Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 I hope that the conversation went well. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.