New gun violence thread

[pinball]

7 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Ghis is why unless a shar shooter is called in, it is several officers/agents unloading a HAILSTORM of bullets in the hoprs somebody lands one.

The police officers who shot& killed the Nashville murderer were just the officers who were among the first to arrive at the school. No hailstorm of bullets, no specially called in sharpshooter…

 

[Spy Car]

3 minutes ago, pinball said:

The police officers who shot& killed the Nashville murderer were just the officers who were among the first to arrive at the school. No hailstorm of bullets, no specially called in sharpshooter…

 

Explain Uvalde.

Bill

[TheReader]

1 minute ago, Spy Car said:

Explain Uvalde.

Bill

any possible explanation for Uvalde will only get the responder shut down by the mods, and rightfully so. I can't even type anything w/o multiple bleeped out cuss words, a spike in my blood pressure, and other things. 

And even still after that disastrous (lack of) response, the legislators from my illustrious home state still called for "arm the teachers" because, sure, let's have them do the job of the guys that were too scared to do so, despite all their training. 

Uvalde is unexplainable, and inexcusable, and horrific, and even now I can't think of it w/o raging and crying and just grieving for those families, and I don't even live there. 

I really don't want to hear pinball's spin on it. 

[I talk to the trees]

4 hours ago, Spy Car said:

I won't violate the board rules by posting images of Christmas cards featuring politicians, their spouses, and their children all posing around their trees brandishing automatic rifles, but it would not be a remotely difficult task.

Things are broken. Time for some accountability, methinks.

Bill

 

 

 

What Bill said. Thank you Bill for stating this so calmly, politely, and succinctly. Right now, I am completely incapable of being any of those things. 

[Spy Car]

25 minutes ago, TheReader said:

any possible explanation for Uvalde will only get the responder shut down by the mods, and rightfully so. I can't even type anything w/o multiple bleeped out cuss words, a spike in my blood pressure, and other things. 

And even still after that disastrous (lack of) response, the legislators from my illustrious home state still called for "arm the teachers" because, sure, let's have them do the job of the guys that were too scared to do so, despite all their training. 

Uvalde is unexplainable, and inexcusable, and horrific, and even now I can't think of it w/o raging and crying and just grieving for those families, and I don't even live there. 

I really don't want to hear pinball's spin on it. 

It was one of those rhetorical questions.

I certainly have no desire to get this thread shut down and I'd doing my utmost to avoid partisan politics.

Law enforcement in Uvalde seemed too intimidated (or something) by the shooter's AR-15 to take the basic actions necessary to save those children, ones that any reasonable person would expect them to have taken as sacred part of their jobs. It remains unfathomable to me--and I know I'm far from alone in those feelings.

To witness heartbreak after heartbreak, while feeling rather powerless to change things, is a difficult spot for us all (or nearly us all).

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Spy Car

[KSera]

 

2 hours ago, AnotherNewName said:

Except the courts would disagree.

Do you think the right to have a free press exists, but that the government could tax ink (or something else key in publication) in an open effort to minimize the ability to exercise that right? Taxes as a rule cannot be used to restrict noneconomic behavior and specifically not to limit exercising a right (think Poll Tax).

 

And this is why we're where we are: some people hold their right to have whatever kind of weapons and ammunition they want higher than children's rights not to be terrorized and/or killed at school. Rights have been altered before and many rights are quite specific. There's nothing that says the 2nd Ammendment can not have any boundaries or restrictions on it. But some people want their freaking guns too much to even hear of it, but more than that, politicians want their money from the gun lobby, and their supporters then become their pawns arguing for things they think they want but that really come straight from the mouth of the gun lobby and are totally against their actual best interest. Their families and friends fellow citizens are dying due to what is supposedly providing them with "self defense".

 

Here's another study: The relationship between gun ownership and firearm homicide rates in the United States, 1981-2010

Quote

Conclusions: We observed a robust correlation between higher levels of gun ownership and higher firearm homicide rates. Although we could not determine causation, we found that states with higher rates of gun ownership had disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides.

 

[Corraleno]

[kbutton]

8 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

It is worse than that. No matter what your instinct is, you probably won't be able to shoot the shooter unless he/she is bizarrely close range. Trained FBI officers who have to recertify each year on their weapons and spend a lot of time at the range can only nail a moving target at 30 ft 38% of the time.

True. 

6 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

I’m not seeing any discussion of the shooter having  attended the school under a pastor who was eventually excommunicated for abusing children over the course of many years. 

I am not keeping up with articles today--is this documented in a news report? 

[livetoread]

19 minutes ago, kbutton said:

True. 

I am not keeping up with articles today--is this documented in a news report? 

Google John Perry and Covenant Presbyterian. Not sure he was a pastor - an elder maybe or whatever they call men in authority positions in their church.

[AnotherNewName]

45 minutes ago, KSera said:

 

And this is why we're where we are: some people hold their right to have whatever kind of weapons and ammunition they want higher than children's rights not to be terrorized and/or killed at school. Rights have been altered before and many rights are quite specific. There's nothing that says the 2nd Ammendment can not have any boundaries or restrictions on it. But some people want their freaking guns too much to even hear of it, but more than that, politicians want their money from the gun lobby, and their supporters then become their pawns arguing for things they think they want but that really come straight from the mouth of the gun lobby and are totally against their actual best interest. Their families and friends fellow citizens are dying due to what is supposedly providing them with "self defense".

 

Here's another study: The relationship between gun ownership and firearm homicide rates in the United States, 1981-2010

 

Nobody (rational) is arguing that the 2nd Amendment can't have restrictions.  I certainly didn't say it couldn't.  But you can't just get around it by coming up with preposterous solutions which won't ever pass judicial review.  And trust me, you don't want the precedent of decision which would allow the government to tax away a right.

 

[PinkTulip]

So, serious question: what are concrete steps I can take to help stop these tragedies from continuing? Today I emailed both Senators, my representative, governor, state senator, and state representative. I’ve talked to everyone in my daily life and encouraged them to do the same. I don’t have a lot in spare financial resources but if there is an organization that is making a difference, I want to support them. 
 

I’m just feeling so angry, powerless, and upset - I’m trying to figure out what I can actively do to stop this from continuing to happen. 

[maize]

4 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

This is also a somewhat unique factor in American life.   Medical care is hard to access and leads to crippling debt once accessed.  Mental healthcare especially.  We have very minimal social safety nets compared to other developed countries.  That all leads to a sense of overall despair that I would guess is less common elsewhere in the world. 

 

Not unique from a global perspective, though we certainly manage these things worse than most wealthy, developed countries.

There are far more people in the world without good, reliable, affordable access to medical care than there are with such access, and many places with worse access than the US. I've lived in some of them.

[AnotherNewName]

1 hour ago, Spy Car said:

Explain Uvalde.

Bill

Poor leadership in tactical command.  My guess is that Nashville being a metro PD may have made a difference. And it seems they allow the officers on site to make judgement calls.

[1234]

I’m reading the shooter legally bought seven guns from five different stores. Still lived with parents and they knew one was bought. Parents made them sell that one gun they knew of because they didn’t think this person should own any guns. Seven guns from five different stores and many people think that’s a completely normal thing to do. 

 

[Ting Tang]

5 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

You are deciding that a side effect (stable families) of a stable community with resources put back into the community is the catalyst of stable mental health. 

Claptrap.  It's absolutely ridiculous that that has to be explained, but the necessity of it shows the state that we are living in, in which logic is twisted to project what you want it to say. 

What next?  Not allowing divorce?  Forcing parents to stay together because obviously the nature of their tumultuous relationship will propel their children to be mentally stable adults?

Now I see how some of these other laws got passed.  The lack of consideration for community needs so that everyone is supported is bypassed for some creative idealism.

I am honestly angry here.  I am angry that people can reduce the screams of the tormented to "well, if the shooter just had parents who were married and together this wouldn't have happened."

Well, I worked in social services in the inner city for several years, so yes, I have some experience listening to how others feel about their situations and what could make them better.  Those women were seeking child care assistance, and even getting thousands of dollars to pay for that, it still wasn't ideal for them.  In the video, it was a Black man working in social services in Chatanooga who said the same.  Obviously, a traumatic or violent marriage isn't being promoted, either.  But not all single parent households are born from domestic violence.  I'm not sure what you are so angry about.  There are lots of statistics that support this, though I have seen articles that support the need for resources, too.  We could also take some of the money we're spending elsewhere and spend it here, that'd be good.  Right now, we all pay a lot of taxes!  And it should really be enough to help those who need it.  Many answers to many problems. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Ting Tang

[Heartstrings]

54 minutes ago, kbutton said:

m not keeping up with articles today--is this documented in a news report?

She was at the school at the same time as the scandal.  Some people are connecting the reports.  There’s no reporting on if the shooter was abused.  
 

https://arktimes.com/arkansas-blog/2015/06/11/huckabee-co-author-john-perry-was-accused-of-child-molestation

A separate series of lawsuits regarding the same alleged molestation involves claims by a former parishioner of Covenant Presbyterian Church in Nashville that the church covered up Perry’s alleged misconduct. 

[Ting Tang]

4 hours ago, SKL said:

Well I don't know how you enforce a "kids must have a dad" rule.  Says a single mom.  🙂

I am not sure I agree that letting felons out of prison so they can influence their kids more will lead to better choices made by said kids.  And then there are the various non-incarcerated rapists, wife abusers, child abusers, narcissists, cheaters, liars, etc. that are not with their kids for good reason.

I mean, most kids do in fact have two parents, but sometimes one of them isn't an appropriate mentor.

I mean it's an easy thing to say, especially if you're a married parent in a functional household.  It's also a popular thing to say.  And I would never dis valuable dad time.  But I'm just not sure how helpful it is to allege that kids without dads are on a bad path.  (We already know this is an "at risk" category, and we have programs like mentorships etc. to try to address that.)

Not sure what "equal time parenting laws" are.  Do you mean 50/50 child custody?  Or equal parental leave policies (which wouldn't help much in low-income communities since many people don't qualify for paid time off at their jobs)?  Or something else?

I think he was getting at amending policies that would allow equal parenting time, having to do with child support or maybe not incarcerating people long term for seemingly petty crimes or ones where restitution could be made outside of prison.  No, I certainly do not think there should be a rule that every kid has a dad, especially if he's a bad guy.  Some people are much better equipped and better resourced to be single parents than others.  I think there are many answers to many problems.  Education, too.  I'm thinking not so much about mass shooters as I am the other kinds of crime, violence, and drug use that's on the rise.  

[Faith-manor]

I don't have the time to go boot up my old laptop and look for the articles I did have in my bookmarks.

Here is one from a quick Google search:

https://www.ajc.com/blog/get-schooled/gunfights-trained-officers-have-percent-hit-rate-yet-want-arm-teachers/mDBlhDtV6Na4wJVpeu58cM/

Another:

https://daiglelawgroup.com/new-study-on-shooting-accuracy-how-does-your-agency-stack-up/

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/may/25/shannon-watts/do-more-7-10-police-bullets-miss-their-mark-gun-co/

I am upset, so I am not going to go looking for more at the moment. My BP is a little elevated. I need to seek some calm.

[Ting Tang]

17 minutes ago, Joker2 said:

I’m reading the shooter legally bought seven guns from five different stores. Still lived with parents and they knew one was bought. Parents made them sell that one gun they knew of because they didn’t think this person should own any guns. Seven guns from five different stores and many people think that’s a completely normal thing to do. 

 

And here is a moment when I would have hoped more intervention could have happened.

[Heartstrings]

31 minutes ago, maize said:

Not unique from a global perspective, though we certainly manage these things worse than most wealthy, developed countries.

There are far more people in the world without good, reliable, affordable access to medical care than there are with such access, and many places with worse access than the US. I've lived in some of them.

We’re used to thinking of America as a peer country to the wealthy developed nations. At some point we have to admit that we no longer are peers with Europe and Australia.  I’m glad that we’re better off than the poorest nations.  I’m just over here grieving the lie I was sold about the “American dream” being  “the best” or even just “developed”.   We’re a middling nation with a giant military.  The oversized military buys us more respect on the world stage than we would otherwise merit at this point.  
 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Heartstrings

[kbutton]

12 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

She was at the school at the same time as the scandal.  Some people are connecting the reports.  There’s no reporting on if the shooter was abused.  
 

https://arktimes.com/arkansas-blog/2015/06/11/huckabee-co-author-john-perry-was-accused-of-child-molestation

A separate series of lawsuits regarding the same alleged molestation involves claims by a former parishioner of Covenant Presbyterian Church in Nashville that the church covered up Perry’s alleged misconduct. 

Okay, that's what I'm seeing when I google.

5 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I don't have the time to go boot up my old laptop and look for the articles I did have in my bookmarks.

 

I am upset, so I am not going to go looking for more at the moment. My BP is a little elevated. I need to seek some calm.

I was asking for links about the child abuse at the church--don't worry about this, but thanks for sharing what you found!

I hope you get some calm tonight. 

[KSera]

 

30 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

A separate series of lawsuits regarding the same alleged molestation involves claims by a former parishioner of Covenant Presbyterian Church in Nashville that the church covered up Perry’s alleged misconduct. 

That sent me down a crazy rabbit hole.[deleting all but the link](https://www.anglicanwatch.com/austin-davis-covenant-presbyterian-and-the-present-day-battle-of-nashville-tennessee/ This article is from January of this year and does not reference this current event in any way. It was just a bit bizarre, especially in this context.)

23 minutes ago, Ting Tang said:

And here is a moment when I would have hoped more intervention could have happened.

Tennessee and a number of other states are currently in a quite literal arms race to see who can have the most lax gun laws. They appear to have no interest in intervening whatsoever to reduce these crimes. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by KSera
Deleting details that felt inappropriate in this context

[maize]

2 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

We’re used to thinking of America as a peer country to the wealthy developed nations. At some point we have to admit that we no longer are peers with Europe and Australia.  I’m glad that we’re better off than the poorest nations.  I’m just over here grieving the lie I was sold about the “American dream” being  “the best” or even just “developed”.   We’re a middling nation with a giant military.  The oversized military buys us more respect on the world stage than we would otherwise merit at this point.  
 

It's a rabbit trail so I won't drag on about it, but I disagree with this assessment. The United States has a lot going for it, even compared with other developed, major economy countries. I'm not on the doom-and-gloom train. I've lived in Japan and I've lived in several Western European countries, as well as in Central and South America. We've got room to improve, but Americans overall have pretty good quality of life.

I don't like extremes or black-and-white thinking. I'm aware of some major blemishes within the crazy-quilt that is the United States of America.

But I see an awful lot of good too, and a lot of potential. And honestly plenty of steps forward in the past decades.

Not "The Best" and superior to every place else, but right up there among the best places in the world to be born and live out a life in terms of health and opportunity and community--yes, we still are.

And I refuse to believe that THIS issue--the repeated, horrific massacre of children in our schools--is one we are incapable of making real progress on.

Edited March 29, 2023 by maize

[Amy in NH]

Perhaps we need to make big posters with graphic photographs of high velocity shooting victim's bodies, and march them around in mass protest outside of stores that sell these weapons?

[Heartstrings]

13 minutes ago, Amy in NH said:

Perhaps we need to make big posters with graphic photographs of high velocity shooting victim's bodies, and march them around in mass protest outside of stores that sell these weapons?

I like this idea but let’s take it to the state houses instead.  Indefinitely, the way Occupy Wall Street did it.  

[Spy Car]

I just watched the released body cam footage. I don't think I would recommend viewing it to those who are feeling shaky already in the aftermath of this shooting. Not sure I made the right call for my own self.

However, it does show the sort of law enforcement response one would hope for in a case like this one. The actions by officers were swift, professional, and quite brave. They did what they needed to do.

And they no doubt saved lives. 

It is all so horrible.

Bill

 

 

[WildflowerMom]

4 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

I just watched the released body cam footage. I don't think I would recommend viewing it to those who are feeling shaky already in the aftermath of this shooting. Not sure I made the right call for my own self.

However, it does show the sort of law enforcement response one would hope for in a case like this one. The actions by officers were swift, professional, and quite brave. They did what they needed to do.

And they no doubt saved lives. 

It is all so horrible.

Bill

 

 

Was just coming to say this.  I just watched it.   I don't recommend it for most people.   The difference between these cops' demeanor and the Uvalde cops' demeanor is mind-blowing.   I don't mean in a training type of way.   It was different than that.  

[KSera]

“Tennessee has no laws that allow police to seize guns from violent suspects.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65106976
 

Can we all agree to vote to change that? Can we agree that no one should vote for anyone who would fight against red flag laws?

[Spy Car]

11 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

Was just coming to say this.  I just watched it.   I don't recommend it for most people.   The difference between these cops' demeanor and the Uvalde cops' demeanor is mind-blowing.   I don't mean in a training type of way.   It was different than that.  

If Uvalde was a textbook case for how not to respond to such shootings (and it was), this was the opposite in my estimation. Law enforcement acted with dispatch, and while they were certainly not reckless about how they moved in and methodically cleared rooms (acting as professionally trained officers should), they certainly did not shrink from doing their duties and potentially putting themselves in harm's way. So they have my respect.

I really agree that with you about not recommending viewing it for most people. Not sure I needed to see it. Quite upsetting footage.

Bill

 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Spy Car

[WildflowerMom]

Speaking of Uvalde, what is the latest?    Will those cops ever face justice?     The chief should be in prison.   I hope we'll get to see that one day.   

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, Amy in NH said:

Perhaps we need to make big posters with graphic photographs of high velocity shooting victim's bodies, and march them around in mass protest outside of stores that sell these weapons?

I think citizens of countries including, but not limited to, the USA, might like to look at France for what needs to happen, in regard to several major issues facing humanity, this included.

Mass civil disobedience. I'm not condoning the burning down of city halls, but I'm not looking at it as askance as I once might have, either.

[Spy Car]

3 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I think citizens of countries including, but not limited to, the USA, might like to look at France for what needs to happen, in regard to several major issues facing humanity, this included.

Mass civil disobedience. I'm not condoning the burning down of city halls, but I'm not looking at it as askance as I once might have, either.

I hardly think that France, with its rising fascistic populist violence is a good role model for anyone, especially the United States.

The violence there could sweep the Nationalt Front of Marine Le Pen to power, and that would be a disaster for Europe and the world.

No thanks.

Bill

 

[Melissa Louise]

I've asked Bill to please not interact with me.

It's unfortunate he can't respect that.

Out of the conversation - thanks for making it unsafe for me, yet again, Bill.

For others, this is what I'm talking about: citizens holding government accountable through one of the few ways left to ordinary people.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/25/women-france-pension-protests

[Spy Car]

10 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I've asked Bill to please not interact with me.

It's unfortunate he can't respect that.

Out of the conversation - thanks for making it unsafe for me, yet again, Bill.

For others, this is what I'm talking about: citizens holding government accountable through one of the few ways left to ordinary people.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/25/women-france-pension-protests

You don’t get to determine whose posts I or anyone else may respond to on an open forum. If you want to promote extremist right-wing violence as a model for the US then expect a response.

The extreme right is perpetrating the violence in France and they are the chief beneficiaries of said violence.

That sort of populist violence is a threat to democracy in France as in is in the United States.

I stand opposed.

Bill

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Spy Car

[Melissa Louise]

Please stop quoting me or interacting with me.

Please stop lying about me.

I am not promoting 'far right protest'.

 

[Spy Car]

6 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Please stop quoting me or interacting with me.

Please stop lying about me.

I am not promoting 'far right protest'.

 

I’m not lying about you. The protests in France have been violent and they have been lead by and have entirely benefitted the far-right National Front in France.

The last thing the US needs in this moment is more violence.

Bill

Edited March 29, 2023 by Spy Car

[Rosie_0801]

Enough already, or shall I lock the thread because you two can't ignore each other properly?

[TechWife]

10 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

Hey, I’m on your side in all this.  I just don’t see what good it does to drone on about it over and over again.  We’ve sorted the gun problem, here on this forum.  We know it’s the guns, we know there are common sense measures we could take.  We figured all that out several shootings ago.  But Congress didn’t listen to us, neither did state legislators.   I guess I missed the part where if we all here just keep going on about it it will get fixed.  
 

If I click my heels together and say “it’s the guns, it’s the guns, it’s the stupid guns” does that fix it?   

We have to keep talking. We cannot give up. Talking to each other means we realize we aren’t alone with our viewpoints.

My interactions on the boards, both when I just read about something and when I both read and participate in the conversation, are dress rehearsals of a sort. I read several different opinions, possible solutions, absorb & sort different communication styles & much  other info. This, in turn, prepares me for when face to face interactions about any given topic take place, which is usually very random in my current circles. 

[HomeAgain]

12 hours ago, AnotherNewName said:

Except the courts would disagree.

Do you think the right to have a free press exists, but that the government could tax ink (or something else key in publication) in an open effort to minimize the ability to exercise that right? Taxes as a rule cannot be used to restrict noneconomic behavior and specifically not to limit exercising a right (think Poll Tax).

 

But,the restriction of rights is something that happens already.  You have the right to protest and gather, but only if you buy a permit.  This is a monetary tax meant to fund the safety concerns from exercising these rights and restrict mass gatherings by the poor.

Rights without responsibility is part of what landed us here.  If there is no way to attach a responsibility to the "well regulated militia", then it's time to use that word "amendment" and fix the Constitution again.

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, HomeAgain said:

But,the restriction of rights is something that happens already.  You have the right to protest and gather, but only if you buy a permit.  This is a monetary tax meant to fund the safety concerns from exercising these rights and restrict mass gatherings by the poor.

Rights without responsibility is part of what landed us here.  If there is no way to attach a responsibility to the "well regulated militia", then it's time to use that word "amendment" and fix the Constitution again.

Most states tax the right to vote by requiring a state issued ID which costs a significant sum between the procuring of birth certificates, travel to and from the issuing agency, and the ID itself. It is a poll tax plain and simple. Tons of people seem to be just fine with that. In my state, it is $34.00 for the vital record (birth certificate), and $10 for an ID for a minor for the first issuance of an ID, $30 for driver's license or adult ID, or at least these were the fees quoted at our Secretary of State office locally. Sadly, they have also been known to be wrong, and not care. 😠 Anyway, that is a poll tax of $64.00 plus travel costs to get it. I don't see mass hysteria from the 2E folks about the infringement of the right to vote on the poor of America. It is an infringement/restriction. 

I am 100% with you that since even a plain text reading of 2E indicates there is no inherent right to guns without being well regulated because it literally says that. I have no idea how on earth we can motivate the powers that be other than voting out the morons, and potentially mass protests in every city, every town, every hamlet in America so vast that the one and only flipping thing they care about, the economic engine that makes them and their buddies ever richer, is brought to its knees. I do not think it is possible to get enough people to care enough to do it. Unfortunately, it will continue to get worse until enough of the Silent Generation and Boomers are gone that Millenials and Gen Z take control of the nation while Gen X silently watches as the much smaller generation of the bunch. Several demographers I have read indicate that as a voting bloc, this takes place between 2026-2028.

And people wonder why GenZ doesn't want to have any kids! 

[mommyoffive]

9 hours ago, Spy Car said:

If Uvalde was a textbook case for how not to respond to such shootings (and it was), this was the opposite in my estimation. Law enforcement acted with dispatch, and while they were certainly not reckless about how they moved in and methodically cleared rooms (acting as professionally trained officers should), they certainly did not shrink from doing their duties and potentially putting themselves in harm's way. So they have my respect.

I really agree that with you about not recommending viewing it for most people. Not sure I needed to see it. Quite upsetting footage.

Bill

 

 

I watched both Uvalde and this shootings footage.  I was so bothered by watching the footage from Uvalde.  I can't even put it into words.  I don't know how anyone could stand there and not do anything, no matter the orders.  It still makes me ill to think about it.

This one didn't bother me, other than thinking of the effects that one person had on 6 people, their families and friends, and every person in that building.  The police officers did what they needed to do and prevented others from dying.  I am thankful those brave people where there that day and did their jobs.  

[mommyoffive]

Here is another person who was close to two mass shootings.  My mind just weeps that this is life in America.

Melissa Joan Hart Tearfully Shares That She Helped Kindergartners 'Trying to Escape' Nashville School Shooting (msn.com)

[Vintage81]

10 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

I watched both Uvalde and this shootings footage.  I was so bothered by watching the footage from Uvalde.  I can't even put it into words.  I don't know how anyone could stand there and not do anything, no matter the orders.  It still makes me ill to think about it.

This one didn't bother me, other than thinking of the effects that one person had on 6 people, their families and friends, and every person in that building.  The police officers did what they needed to do and prevented others from dying.  I am thankful those brave people where there that day and did their jobs.  

I felt the same after having watched both. The Uvalde videos made me sick...still thinking of them makes me ill. The Nashville ones were the exact opposite. Those officers were methodical and did not hesitate to take out the threat. I actually think those that have seen the Uvalde videos should watch these, because it will show how it should be and can be done. I understand though if it is difficult. 

[Lady Florida.]

On 3/28/2023 at 6:44 AM, Quill said:

Not to be Little Miss Sunshine, but it is not accurate to say *nothing* is ever done. I agree that, *Federally*, not much changes. But by state, much does. Now - it may be that I see this more because I live in a blue state, where it’s not that easy to own guns, comparatively speaking - but there *has* been a lot of gun law reform since Sandy Hook. I’ll see if I can find it and post it here, but there is a graphic I found at one time that showed all the states and the measures enacted since Sandy Hook. 
 

 

 

20 hours ago, Terabith said:

I don’t think we have any chance in hell of getting rid of guns.  At this point I’m not sure trying is even worth it.  
 

 

In my state the house just passed a bill that allows concealed carry without a permit. Currently training and a license are required. The bill goes to the senate which will likely pass it and the governor has already said he'd sign it.

 

 

13 hours ago, PinkTulip said:

So, serious question: what are concrete steps I can take to help stop these tragedies from continuing? Today I emailed both Senators, my representative, governor, state senator, and state representative. I’ve talked to everyone in my daily life and encouraged them to do the same. I don’t have a lot in spare financial resources but if there is an organization that is making a difference, I want to support them. 
 

I’m just feeling so angry, powerless, and upset - I’m trying to figure out what I can actively do to stop this from continuing to happen. 

 

I'm powerless in my state. All of my representatives, national and state, are on the side of the gun nuts. Writing to them is pointless. They don't care.

 

[Innisfree]

14 hours ago, PinkTulip said:

So, serious question: what are concrete steps I can take to help stop these tragedies from continuing?

I think our ability to stop these tragedies varies with our location, but there are a few things we can all do.

We can take part in conversations, whether online like this, or in person. Remember that people may be listening and thinking about what we say, even if they don’t speak up themselves.

We can follow, or join, or participate in groups like Moms Demand Action. When there’s a local protest (in my area, it’s usually a few people with placards outside the courthouse, not huge crowds), we can be there.

We can write, email, phone our representatives, even if we know they don’t want to hear us. Why let them ignore us? Occupy their staff member’s time, at least as long as it takes to respond. Repeat as often as seems appropriate: certainly after every incident like this, but maybe more often. Be a gadfly.

We can vote. Decide what’s important, and vote accordingly. Even a losing vote can show gradually changing attitudes. Don’t be invisible because the odds seem overwhelming.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Innisfree

[Grace Hopper]

27 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

 

 

In my state the house just passed a bill that allows concealed carry without a permit. Currently training and a license are required. The bill goes to the senate which will likely pass it and the governor has already said he'd sign it.

 

 

 

I'm powerless in my state. All of my representatives, national and state, are on the side of the gun nuts. Writing to them is pointless. They don't care.

 

Same. So discouraging. 

[fairfarmhand]

11 hours ago, Spy Car said:

I just watched the released body cam footage. I don't think I would recommend viewing it to those who are feeling shaky already in the aftermath of this shooting. Not sure I made the right call for my own self.

However, it does show the sort of law enforcement response one would hope for in a case like this one. The actions by officers were swift, professional, and quite brave. They did what they needed to do.

And they no doubt saved lives. 

It is all so horrible.

Bill

 

 

Yes, absolutely. They were marvelous. Excellent job, Nashville PD.

(they have trained extensively for these situations. My dh's workplace sometimes gets dragged into emergency response stuff--which annoys him because it is inconvenient on the day to day, but is thankful for in the long run.--fairly regularly.)

[fairfarmhand]

I don't think anything will change until GUN OWNERS advocate for common sense restrictions. 

I don't understand the resistance. WE ALREADY REGULATE GUNS! We regulate driver's licenses. We regulate who can buy freaking cold meds. 

We're gun owners. We have several. I'm not afraid of common sense restrictions. We need red flag laws. We need strict control over who can buy a weapon and the processes for buying weapons.. We need waiting periods. We need magazine restrictions. There are so many things that could improve this situation that 95% of gun owners would not be affected by.

[happi duck]

I watched the video.  It makes me sob because of the deaths and imaging how scared the kids (and adults) must have been.

However, I needed to see cops who are brave.  There was no hesitation.  They were clearly following training.  

[lauraw4321]

1 hour ago, Lady Florida. said:

 

 

In my state the house just passed a bill that allows concealed carry without a permit. Currently training and a license are required. The bill goes to the senate which will likely pass it and the governor has already said he'd sign it.

 

 

 

I'm powerless in my state. All of my representatives, national and state, are on the side of the gun nuts. Writing to them is pointless. They don't care.

 

Same. But I refuse to be helpless and hopeless.