New gun violence thread

[MercyA]

Just starting this here in case any one wants to discuss the issues at hand away from ScoutTN's thread. 

I'm going to repeat here what I said in that thread: guns are now the leading cause of death for children in the United States. That is shameful and needs to stop.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abstract/2799356

I'm also going to link this woman's non-partisan plea for new laws:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2023/03/27/shooting-survivor-mother-jumps-in-nashville-presser-vpx.wsmv

[Murphy101]

I didn’t want another thread about this. It seems nothing more than distraction to me to keep separating it from the event threads/topic/news. Like this is separate from that. It’s not.  I know you (generally) don’t intend that but it sure seems to be the result every day this happens.

There’s just nothing left to discuss about it imo. It’s been discussed literally to death.

I’ve personally proposed many possible options to regulate guns/ammo without banning them.  Here. There. My reps in govt. But whatever. It doesn’t seem to matter to the majority of Americans.  It seems insane to repeat myself into the void.

I don’t care if she was trans. I don’t care if she was abused. I don’t care why she did it. I mean sure I care about their soul.  But in relation to stopping mass shootings it just doesn’t matter who they were or why they lost their mental crap. Americans, contrary to what our ego might suggest, are NOT a new species of humans. There’s nothing out mass shooters have been or were dealing with that humans in nearly all other countries deal with and yet don’t have masks shooting a like in the USA. So what do Americans have that make mass shootings more common here than anywhere else in the world?

How easy it is to get the guns and the ammo and to get them in large quantity in a relatively short amount of time.

[Eos]

Came here to link an article about the woman who jumped into the press conference and I see that Mercy has it in a video above.  Here is a Washington Post article.  I am impressed with her courage. https://wapo.st/3FSgtBi

From the article: Because only in America can you survive a mass shooting and go and make a friend who is the victim of a mass shooting and then go to meet that friend for lunch … and end up in the middle of another mass shooting event.”

Everything you said @Murphy101.  

Edited March 28, 2023 by Eos

[TheReader]

I appreciate you moving the topic away from Scout's thread; I think that was very thoughtful. 

I also agree with Murphy.....it feels we've talked it to death. I don't know what else to say on the topic. I rearranged my co-op classroom today, because I realized my line of sight to the door wasn't great. I shouldn't have to think of stuff like that, but there I am, rehearsing in my  head every time I walk in the room what I'd do to get the kids out safely, just in case. Because the likelihood of it happening "to me" is low....until it isn't.  And if we count the fact I "know" Scout from here, that's three people I know, personally, directly, who are employed at places where this has happened. Which seems alarmingly high to me. Which maybe drives home the "it *can* happen to you" side of things for me. It's happened in places where people I know worked. It can, indeed, happen to me. 

I changed my voting on this along time ago. I changed how I speak about it not as long ago. I changed the frequency with which I talk about it in the past year or so. I don't know what else to do. 

[Sneezyone]

The mainland US is just.not.safe. You don’t even realize how unsafe until you live outside it for a year or more. It’s awful.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[Melissa Louise]

Genuine question - for those of you who have options to live internationally due to career or financial situation (maybe even become permanent residents or citizens of another country), are you tempted to just leave this all behind?

Related - I believe we in AU are actively recruiting nurses and teachers from overseas right now. We have problems here, but thankfully not this one.

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Melissa Louise

[Dmmetler]

3 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Genuine question - for those of you who have options to live internationally due to career or financial situation (maybe even become permanent residents or citizens of another country), are you tempted to just leave this all behind?

Related - I believe we in AU are actively recruiting nurses and teachers from overseas right now. We have problems here, but thankfully not this one.

 

Unfortunately most countries don't want 50 yr olds with chronic medical needs. But yes, I want out. I swear the most relaxed I've been in the last decade is when I'm outside the USA. 

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Genuine question - for those of you who have options to live internationally due to career or financial situation (maybe even become permanent residents or citizens of another country), are you tempted to just leave this all behind?

 

Yes. The annoying bit is trying to convince fellow citizens (largely family…our friends are mostly third culture) that this preference is not only rational but DESIRABLE. We have friends who’ve made this choice and family who prefer the Philippines to the US. If it weren’t for college admissions and my desire to work, we’d still be overseas. Once I am done working for good, we would happily move.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Sneezyone

[KSera]

44 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I didn’t want another thread about this. It seems nothing more than distraction to me to keep separating it from the event threads/topic/news. Like this is separate from that. It’s not.

I agree with this usually when there is a shooting--it's all one topic and should be kept together. I think this one is different because ScoutTN is personally affected by this and started a prayer thread, and it seems more appropriate to leave that one as a support for her, and have the discussion on this one.

I agree with your other points though.

[Eos]

7 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

Unfortunately most countries don't want 50 yr olds with chronic medical needs. But yes, I want out. I swear the most relaxed I've been in the last decade is when I'm outside the USA. 

Same.  I drive across the border into Canada and I feel...normal.  Not angry, not scared.  Dd was on a bus one day and a mentally ill person was rambling loudly to everyone on the bus.  She was very tense and then started looking around and realized that everyone on the bus was trying various ways to engage the person, not looking away, not scared. She also realized that a big part of why people were unafraid to try to diffuse the situation was that they were not worried about getting shot.

And yes, I would if I was young and affluent. I've researched it extensively.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Eos

[Pawz4me]

2 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

Unfortunately most countries don't want 50 yr olds with chronic medical needs. 

If DH and I didn’t have complex health issues we’d seriously consider relocating. We have researched. But it seems impossible when health issues are a big factor.

[ktgrok]

18 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Genuine question - for those of you who have options to live internationally due to career or financial situation (maybe even become permanent residents or citizens of another country), are you tempted to just leave this all behind?

Related - I believe we in AU are actively recruiting nurses and teachers from overseas right now. We have problems here, but thankfully not this one.

 

 

We looked into it seriously, but for financial reasons (salaries being lower, I'm guessing because people in those countries don't start out with 6 figure student loans), and having older family here that would not/could not move, we dropped it for now. But yes. 

[Sneezyone]

Ironically?, the wealthiest among our citizenry spend a HUGE chunk of time OCONUS.🤷🏽‍♀️

[Murphy101]

44 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

Unfortunately most countries don't want 50 yr olds with chronic medical needs. But yes, I want out. I swear the most relaxed I've been in the last decade is when I'm outside the USA. 

Right. Same.

43 minutes ago, KSera said:

I agree with this usually when there is a shooting--it's all one topic and should be kept together. I think this one is different because ScoutTN is personally affected by this and started a prayer thread, and it seems more appropriate to leave that one as a support for her, and have the discussion on this one.

I agree with your other points though.

I get that. Really I do. But at the same time I think any support beyond “sign here for gun regulations” is empty of any value beyond shallow sentiment.

[SeaConquest]

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

Genuine question - for those of you who have options to live internationally due to career or financial situation (maybe even become permanent residents or citizens of another country), are you tempted to just leave this all behind?

Related - I believe we in AU are actively recruiting nurses and teachers from overseas right now. We have problems here, but thankfully not this one.

 

Pretty hard to leave San Diego. Not sure my kids and I would survive Canadian weather, but my Canadian husband would actually be the bigger obstacle. Israel and Mexico are also both possibilities (as Jews and with one kid born in Puerto Vallarta), but not any safer at the moment.  But, I may pursue an EU passport through my Italian relatives. I could definitely see us doing that in the not-too-distant future.

Edited March 28, 2023 by SeaConquest

[Terabith]

We have looked into it.  We would ideally like to get our kids through college.  If we could get all of us out, including the pets, and find a position that we could make work financially and where our health issues didn't disqualify us, we would go in a heartbeat.  We work with asylum seekers, and we spend a lot of time thinking about what would be the trigger that would get us to move even if we couldn't get everyone/ take the cats/ have employment.

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, Terabith said:

We have looked into it.  We would ideally like to get our kids through college.  If we could get all of us out, including the pets, and find a position that we could make work financially and where our health issues didn't disqualify us, we would go in a heartbeat.  We work with asylum seekers, and we spend a lot of time thinking about what would be the trigger that would get us to move even if we couldn't get everyone/ take the cats/ have employment.

Yes, kids are a whole other issue. At this point DS23 would either get left behind or have to qualify for entry on his own, rather than part of our family. That was another factor when we were looking into things. 

[lewelma]

We are desperate for people with certain skills. Here is the green list that gives you a straight path into NZ.

https://www.new-zealand-immigration.com/visa/the-skill-shortage-lists?https://www.new-zealand-immigration.com/free-assessment&gclid=CjwKCAjw_YShBhAiEiwAMomsEKKdJ4a5Qr-vaCI8WhQKYaRbuiHczBZV2FMUtYoQ_VYhoUnX_wN0NhoCSogQAvD_BwE

We have our set of problems, but gun violence is not one of them.

Edited March 28, 2023 by lewelma

[Murphy101]

21 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Yes, kids are a whole other issue. At this point DS23 would either get left behind or have to qualify for entry on his own, rather than part of our family. That was another factor when we were looking into things. 

Sigh. Truth. There was a time I’d totally have up and left with all the kids because well they were young enough that I could do that. 

But what’s the freaking point of me being safer and healthier somewhere if all the people I most want to spend my safe and healthy time with are where I might never get to hug them again?

I wouldn’t move out of the country unless it was with the majority of my kids AND I could afford to regularly visit my kids who can’t go with us.

Between that and ageism/healthism just being realism - if anyone has an exception country for me that has good medical, please let me know!

[Faith-manor]

33 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Yes, kids are a whole other issue. At this point DS23 would either get left behind or have to qualify for entry on his own, rather than part of our family. That was another factor when we were looking into things. 

This. We really would be best off in another country, and our belief system and political beliefs better fit secular, EU countries. But, if we left, our four adult children and our three grandchildren plus honorary daughter and grandchild would be here suffering without our support. We decided we couldn't live with that. If the opportunity some how existed to get out as a group, then we would go. One thing we have looked at is if all of the primary earners could get work remote contracts Barbados is very open to remote working Americans emigrating there. We haven't done a lot of research though so we don't know what kind of health care system they have, and what our cost to participate would be.

[MercyA]

@Murphy101, I understand your frustration, but talking about things is one way to change things. Not as fast as we would like and not as fast as is needed, but it is still worth doing. I started a new thread because the other one was so very, very close to home for Scout and I thought she deserved some space for sympathy and prayer. 

I used to be 2nd Amendment all the way--"the right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed!" SHM. I wasn't thinking, just parroting. I wasn't consistent and I wasn't wise. My dad was an NRA member and we passed around the newsletter at lunch. He is on the other side now, too. It is worth saying these things again and again until people listen.

Edited March 28, 2023 by MercyA

[Heartstrings]

I used to think staying and fighting was the right thing.  It’s my country too damn it.  Why should I have to leave?

 But realistically what’s that going to get me?  Nothing. 
 

I surprised my husband earlier by telling him I think we need to start concealed carrying, even though I loathe the idea.  But I’m kind of feeling like if you can’t beat, you have to join them.   I can’t change Congress, or the Supreme Court.  Every shooting like this just increases gun sales, so tomorrow even more yahoos will own guns, and be carting them around.  At some point you have no choice but to join in for your own protection.  The idea is just counter to who I’ve always been, but I hate being a sitting duck.  

Maybe the people I’ve always thought were paranoid were right, maybe we do need armed Dads walking around as security at co-op and park days.  At some point dystopia became reality.  

[Murphy101]

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

@Murphy101, I understand your frustration, but talking about things is one way to change things. Not as fast as we would like and not as fast as is needed, but it is still worth doing. I started a new thread because the other one was so very, very close to home for Scout and I thought she deserved some space for sympathy and prayer. 

I used to be 2nd Amendment all the way--"the right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed!" SHM. I wasn't thinking, just parroting. I wasn't consistent and I wasn't wise. My dad was an NRA member and we passed around the newsletter at lunch. He is on the other side now, too. It is worth saying these things again and again until people listen.

Yeah. Well. There’s a saying for our current situation. “Committee is where things go to die.”  It’s not that I don’t think talking has value. But at some point (the point being somewhere around Sandy Hook) talking just becomes sending something to committee. Every so often people remember it’s still in committee and reflect and compare with the committee’s last meeting notes, nodding their heads, occasionally slamming the conference table for emphasis that really the committee should do something. But it never does actually do anything. 

50 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I used to think staying and fighting was the right thing.  It’s my country too damn it.  Why should I have to leave?

 But realistically what’s that going to get me?  Nothing. 

I surprised my husband earlier by telling him I think we need to start concealed carrying, even though I loathe the idea.  But I’m kind of feeling like if you can’t beat, you have to join them.   I can’t change Congress, or the Supreme Court.  Every shooting like this just increases gun sales, so tomorrow even more yahoos will own guns, and be carting them around.  At some point you have no choice but to join in for your own protection.  The idea is just counter to who I’ve always been, but I hate being a sitting duck.  

Maybe the people I’ve always thought were paranoid were right, maybe we do need armed Dads walking around as security at co-op and park days.  At some point dystopia became reality.  

Ugh. Dammit. Same. I said nearly the same thing to Dh a few mass shootings ago. I forget which one it was bc they are starting to blur together and I can’t keep track anymore. Which does nothing to improve my attitude about any of this at all. 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Heartstrings said:

Maybe the people I’ve always thought were paranoid were right, maybe we do need armed Dads walking around as security at co-op and park days.  At some point dystopia became reality.  

Gun nuts will read this and rub their hands together with glee that this tragedy is turning people to more guns. It’s always guns over people for them. It’s sick. 

[Carrie12345]

7 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Genuine question - for those of you who have options to live internationally due to career or financial situation (maybe even become permanent residents or citizens of another country), are you tempted to just leave this all behind?

Related - I believe we in AU are actively recruiting nurses and teachers from overseas right now. We have problems here, but thankfully not this one.

 

There has been potential in the past, and I suppose it could come around again.  Tempting isn’t even the right word. Of course it sounds great.   
This is my home though. This is where my I have people I love, far beyond my household. I can’t do it. At least, not yet.   
I *can imagine getting pushed to that point.

[HomeAgain]

A few thoughts.

1. There's no way to discuss mass shootings anymore and keep politics out of it.  One can only be sad for so long - grief needs a stage of activism, not acceptance, if we are ever to change.

2. Dh and I have the ultimate goal of leaving the U.S.  Our skills are moving in the direction of being marketable in other areas.  Right now, my child goes to school but carries his phone on him.  I require it to be in his pocket at all times.  This way I know whether my kid is lying on the floor of a classroom or safely evacuated.  Several other parents have similar rules, either with phones or air tags for younger kids. 

3. My family has had enough "almosts" that we really think about open air shooters.  We've left a mall shortly before a mass shooter arrived.  We've left a hotel shortly before the SWAT team arrived.  We've been stuck in a Target whose policy is to throw the cage down all the doors if there is an emergency.  Online shopping is our friend.  We avoid large gatherings that don't have security.  Sending my kid to school every day is terrifying because I identified all the possible shooting entrances within the first week and can see how it would be done.

We're tired and every child in this country will grow up with PTSD if we don't change.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

Every so often people remember it’s still in committee and reflect and compare with the committee’s last meeting notes, nodding their heads, occasionally slamming the conference table for emphasis that really the committee should do something. But it never does actually do anything. 

Not to be Little Miss Sunshine, but it is not accurate to say *nothing* is ever done. I agree that, *Federally*, not much changes. But by state, much does. Now - it may be that I see this more because I live in a blue state, where it’s not that easy to own guns, comparatively speaking - but there *has* been a lot of gun law reform since Sandy Hook. I’ll see if I can find it and post it here, but there is a graphic I found at one time that showed all the states and the measures enacted since Sandy Hook. 
 

I think, from a demographic perspective, one reason the US has so many mass shootings is because the US has so many mass shootings. The social idea that “we have mass shootings” poisons the thought process and we *do* have mass shootings.

It’s like, during the pandemic, I could drive to another state and see mass resistance to wearing a mask. Because the majority of people in that state and the governance had the collective view that “We don’t wear masks.” By contrast, in my own state (at least, in my part of it), the collective was the opposite: “We wear masks.” During the main part of the pandemic before vaccines, seeing someone at a public place without a mask was very rare for me, because the collective view is “we wear masks.”  In some ways, this is a proxy for “we carry guns!” vs. “Guns are not for daily use by most”. 
 

Im doing a thought experiment; I’m not saying this leads to actions taken. But I’m saying that part of the reason mass gun violence is a thing here is because it is a possibility in the collective conscience. There are many countries without this idea in the collective conscience. Maybe suicide is higher, or drug use, or another type of (faulty) coping mechanism. But it wouldn’t change things even if the government issued every citizen of such countries their own AR rifle. They wouldn’t go shoot a school because that idea is not part of their culture. 
 

I don’t know how we change this. I don’t know how the collective conscience of what “we” do can be changed in individual states, much less federally. 
 

As a side note, now that “we” have information that this perpetrator was trans, expect that talking point to be The Whole Reason. Im 100% certain Stucker Charleston and Lauren Singhram will be babbling about this point in their shows today. 

[Tenaj]

I was just reading news stories about the Nashville situation with tears.  It just hits home because we are involved with a church school about the same size in our area.  

But what do we (individually ) do to change this and what laws would work?  

My dh owns a legally purchased hand gun but has never shot it.  He has his concealed carry permit and took two classes a few years ago but he doesn't carry.  He just doesn't feel comfortable with it.

One of the things I am concerned about is how pervasive the gun culture is in certain churches.  In our tiny church we have two gun carriers.  One is an 88 year old lady who has no business having a gun - to think of something happening and her pulling that gun out is horrifying to me!  At least her gun is legal - the other carrier is the pastor and his is unregistered. 

I don't even know what I'm asking.  I feel helpless to do anything personally.  Even if all guns were outlawed tomorrow people I know and love would hide theirs and completely rebel against such a law.  

 

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Tenaj

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

The measures I’m in favor of probably would do little to stop mass shootings. Mandatory finger print locks on all weapons, no constitutional carry, full background checks and wait periods. Insurance and licenses similar to cars, required fingerprint safes.  I live in a state with reasonable gun control rules and no open carry—and we are gun owners. To get a concealed carry permit you need to have five written references, a full background check including mental health, and then the county judge signs off on the permit. No one can wake up one day with no weapons and legally have one by nightfall.

But.
I also treat plenty of patients with gun shot wounds and none of those are from legally owned weapons.  People who are criminals or sovereign citizen types are always going to find a way to gain access to weapons, including assault rifles.

The mental health part is just as dicy. Are we willing to remove children from parents we deem to believe and teach dangerous things? Force mental health treatment and medication? Permanently hospitalize people with mental health that is resistant to treatment?  
 

The truth is that simply because we can’t fully solve the problem or come up with one solution doesn’t mean that we can’t do anything.  There are reasonable and common sense ways to make society safer.

[Heartstrings]

6 hours ago, KSera said:

Gun nuts will read this and rub their hands together with glee that this tragedy is turning people to more guns. It’s always guns over people for them. It’s sick. 

I think they rub their hands in glee after every shooting.  They start crying about how this time the guvment gonna take their guns so they go buy more.  Their the only ones that have any hope about the gun laws changing, which is sickly ironic.  

Realistically, in my area, we could set up parents as security at co-op or park without anyone needing to purchase a new one. Everyone has guns here.  Heck, I hate guns and we have several. 

[Heartstrings]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

- but there *has* been a lot of gun law reform since Sandy Hook.

In certain states it’s going the opposite though.  The state I’m in is in a competition with neighboring states to see who can have the loosest gun laws. It’s ridiculous. 

1 hour ago, Quill said:

s a side note, now that “we” have information that this perpetrator was trans, expect that talking point to be The Whole Reason. Im 100% certain Stucker Charleston and Lauren Singhram will be babbling about this point in their shows today. 

I’m already seeing attacks online of trans people.  People are so primed to attack that community already, it only takes a tiny spark to set it off. I’m really concerned that it’s going to be violent.  

[TechWife]

2 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

…

We're tired and every child in this country will grow up with PTSD if we don't change.

I wonder how much this is contributing to the current mental health crisis. 

13 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

…
 

The truth is that simply because we can’t fully solve the problem or come up with one solution doesn’t mean that we can’t do anything.  There are reasonable and common sense ways to make society safer.

This. We need to keep talking and thinking and advocating. 

[lauraw4321]

I’m trying to become active in Moms Demand Action - it has a similar approach to moms against drunk driving. 

One of the girls who died has the same first name as my 9 year old. Just contemplating it feels like a gut punch. 

[pinball]

24 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

In certain states it’s going the opposite though.  The state I’m in is in a competition with neighboring states to see who can have the loosest gun laws. It’s ridiculous. 

I’m already seeing attacks online of trans people.  People are so primed to attack that community already, it only takes a tiny spark to set it off. I’m really concerned that it’s going to be violent.  

FYI…it already was violent. 6 lives have been ended. 

or are you talking about the Trans Day or Vengeance, scheduled for the end of the week, that has been planned for quite a while now? The DC group locked down their Twitter after the shooting. 

you’re the person who actually posted that Audrey was the killer’s “deadname” in the thread about how she murdered 6 people, 3 little children. Do you even see how twisted that thinking is? 

 

 

[Pawz4me]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

there *has* been a lot of gun law reform since Sandy Hook

Yes, in some states. And as far as the question @Melissa Louise asked about relocating -- The possibility of relocating to a different state is significantly more realistic than moving internationally. It's not that anywhere in the US you can get away from guns totally, but it seems to me some states' laws and overall culture make being a random victim of gun violence much less likely than others. It's something DH and I have considered. Our retirement funds certainly wouldn't go as far, we'd likely have to settle for a lesser housing situation than we have now. But we wouldn't have anywhere near the health care obstacles of moving to another country, nor any of the other hoop-jumping or logistical planning that would be necessary for that.  Our state's gun laws are more stringent than some, but not nearly as stringent as others. Gun culture, overall political culture, climate change--I think all of these things are contributing to more and more voluntarily sorting of citizens (which yes, I know is a worrisome thing in many ways). There are a number of states that we've crossed off our travel list due to gun laws and other political issues. 

[Heartstrings]

9 minutes ago, pinball said:

FYI…it already was violent. 6 lives have been ended. 

or are you talking about the Trans Day or Vengeance, scheduled for the end of the week, that has been planned for quite a while now? The DC group locked down their Twitter after the shooting. 

you’re the person who actually posted that Audrey was the killer’s “deadname” in the thread about how she murdered 6 people, 3 little children. Do you even see how twisted that thinking is? 

 

 

I’m concerned the RESPONCE is going to be violence against trans people who had nothing at all to do with this shooting.  I’m sure you knew that already though.
 

Someone ASKED about the name and I suggested it might be the birth/dead name of the person.  That’s a statement of fact.  It’s colloquially known as a dead name.   Acknowledging that the shooter may have gone by a different name is hardly any kind of twisted thinking.  I’m sure you know that already too.  
 

I see you pretending to not understand what I meant. 

[Kanin]

I haven't read anything here. I can't handle it. Just wanted to say that I'm a teacher, and if this happened at my school, I would never set foot in a school again. Or, maybe, any public place. 

Armed teachers or security officers wouldn't help in a situation like this because it happened too fast. 

Seems like every community in every state will have to have a shooting before we can get our $%*# together and get rid of the guns.

 

[TechWife]

7 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

  It’s colloquially known as a dead name.  

I have never heard of this in my life. Their name is their name. When names are changed, birth certificates are changed or amended, meaning they are one and the same.

[pinball]

5 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I’m concerned the RESPONCE is going to be violence against trans people who had nothing at all to do with this shooting.  I’m sure you knew that already though.
 

Someone ASKED about the name and I suggested it might be the birth/dead name of the person.  That’s a statement of fact.  It’s colloquially known as a dead name.   Acknowledging that the shooter may have gone by a different name is hardly any kind of twisted thinking.  I’m sure you know that already too.  
 

I see you pretending to not understand what I meant. 

I know exactly what you meant and it’s messed up. 
 

I really hope that other people see how messed up it is to use “deadname” in general and HOW MUCH WORSE and tone deaf it is to use it when the woman is actually DEAD bc she was murdering innocent souls.

[Heartstrings]

It seems like the bare minimum but…

 

attacking a random trans person because they share a characteristic with a shooter is abhorrent.

Attacking a random Muslim because they share a characteristic with a shooter is abhorrent. 

attacking a random Mexican because they share a characteristic with a shooter is abhorrent.  
 

attacking INNOCENT RANDOM people because they share a characteristic with a shooter is ABHORRENT.  
 

 

 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Tenaj said:

I don't even know what I'm asking.  I feel helpless to do anything personally.  Even if all guns were outlawed tomorrow people I know and love would hide theirs and completely rebel against such a law.  

We need to start doing things even so. Even if some people won’t obey laws, we still make them, and given that a lot of shootings are perpetrated by young people, making it harder for people to get guns to do this in the future will make a difference. 

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

The measures I’m in favor of probably would do little to stop mass shootings. Mandatory finger print locks on all weapons, no constitutional carry, full background checks and wait periods. Insurance and licenses similar to cars, required fingerprint safes.  I live in a state with reasonable gun control rules and no open carry—and we are gun owners. To get a concealed carry permit you need to have five written references, a full background check including mental health, and then the county judge signs off on the permit. No one can wake up one day with no weapons and legally have one by nightfall.

While these measures won’t and don’t stop shootings over night, they absolutely would make a difference. And exponentially more so if the whole country was like that. Typically, guns flow into places with stronger laws like that from other states with weaker laws. 

51 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

I’m already seeing attacks online of trans people.  People are so primed to attack that community already, it only takes a tiny spark to set it off. I’m really concerned that it’s going to be violent.  

I’m so worried about my kid 😢. 

3 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

Someone ASKED about the name and I suggested it might be the birth/dead name of the person.  That’s a statement of fact.  It’s colloquially known as a dead name.  

Despite how common the term is, I wish it wasn’t. It’s a terrible thing to call it (not saying you, I know you’re not the one who coined it) and I think it’s worse for mental health for trans people to be primed to be so hurt and shocked by a name that practicality dictates they will continue to encounter at various points through their life as they handle official business, things from their childhood, etc. A more neutral name for it (like birth name) seems healthier. 

[Heartstrings]

5 minutes ago, TechWife said:

I have never heard of this in my life. Their name is their name. When names are changed, birth certificates are changed or amended, meaning they are one and the same.

It is what people in the trans community call their birth names.  I didn’t create it.  I just know the term exists.  

[Pawz4me]

5 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

It seems like the bare minimum but…

 

attacking a random trans person because they share a characteristic with a shooter is abhorrent.

Attacking a random Muslim because they share a characteristic with a shooter is abhorrent. 

attacking a random Mexican because they share a characteristic with a shooter is abhorrent.  
 

attacking INNOCENT RANDOM people because they share a characteristic with a shooter is ABHORRENT.  
 

 

 

And you know when that doesn't happen?

When it's a white male.

[Heartstrings]

I’m more than willing to take the anti trans hate.  Go for it.  It’s odd, since I’m neither trans nor directly attached to a trans person. I’m a boring suburban mom.  But if it makes some of you feel better, go off.   Tell me all about how attacking innocent people is a fine thing.  Tell me all about how twisted it is that I don’t think we should be harming people for sharing a characteristic with a shooter or how knowing modern colloquialisms makes me terrible. ✌️
 

[Heartstrings]

3 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

And you know when that doesn't happen?

When it's a white male.

Interesting, ain’t it? 

[Faith-manor]

I agree with Murphy and Tiggy. We won't stop it entirely unless we decide to allow the seizing of weapons from all private citizens and have them melted down, then restrict gun sales entirely. This is not a nation of volunteers, unlike Australia whose citizens said, "Well, if we have twists people who can't be trusted with guns and we want our society to be safer, we will all voluntarily participate in getting them off the streets" which is exactly what they did. But there are a lot of things that can be done to make schools and crowded venues a lot safer to reduce gun based domestic violence. Ammosexuals and their supporters are completely against any measures to do so, and the NRA had a stranglehold on politicians.

After the Oxford shooting, which was shortly after I had begun doing some occasional substitute teaching in our school district, Mark asked me to stop. Nearly everyday in our tri-county area there is at least one school, often multiples, closed for threats. One of the schools closed yesterday found a Molotov cocktail in a garbage can in a hallway. Another found a gun in a child's backpack. Gun owners here are by in large utterly irresponsible, and openly brag about it. 

My hope is that the prosecutor is successful and the parents of the Oxford shooter receive hard prison time. Maybe if that precedent is set, there will be more of an impetus to force responsibility and take commonsense measures that can reduce the number of guns on the streets, and potentially get the assault rifles seized. I favor making them illegal with 60 days to surrender them, and a buy back program. Each person gets the full market value of the gun, no matter how old, in cash from the sheriff's office when it is surrendered since their property is being taken.

It should be noted that when my father tried to kill my mother and himself (unsuccessful), he was ordered by the court to surrender his weapons. No one came to get them. No one followed up. His home was not searched. Nothing was ever said. My brother and husband searched the house, and took the guns and ammo out. My brother kept it. No one from the court or police department even asked. After he died, we were helping mom clean stuff out and found another hand gun with ammo. It isn't my family's fault. They did not know how to conduct a search, and given the circumstances, it was a highly emotional, gut wrenching nothing to do. They did their best, but didn't know how to be 100% thorough since they had had zero training, and just two people to conduct the search of a large house with lots of nooks and crannies. So ya. No one is even going and getting the guns from the known criminals or the, in case of my father, known very mentally ill and incompetent folks.

[livetoread]

 

13 minutes ago, KSera said:

I’m so worried about my kid 😢. 

Me too. Hugs to you. My job today is trying to figure out how to channel all this sadness and anxiety and rage into something resembling productivity because right now I'm feeling pretty intense.

[Innisfree]

One thing we need to do is to hold parents accountable when their kids use guns the parents have made available, whether by gift or by inadequate security. I’ve been watching the reports about the six year old who shot his teacher in Virginia. That gun was supposedly kept on a high shelf in a closet, and supposedly locked, but the kid got it. I’m impatient to hear charges are being filed, but concerned they won’t be. A few very visible examples might help encourage folks to take responsibility for their guns being safely stored. It’s far from sufficient, but it would be a start.

[TheReader]

28 minutes ago, Kanin said:

I haven't read anything here. I can't handle it. Just wanted to say that I'm a teacher, and if this happened at my school, I would never set foot in a school again. Or, maybe, any public place. 

Armed teachers or security officers wouldn't help in a situation like this because it happened too fast. 

Seems like every community in every state will have to have a shooting before we can get our $%*# together and get rid of the guns.

 

Big, big, big hugs to you. 

[Dmmetler]

 Killing 6 people in a span of a couple of minutes is much much less likely without guns. Yes, bad people can get guns. Bad people steal cars. Let's at least start with licensing guns the way we do cars. Even Canada, which shares a huge border across which guns are very available doesn't have the mass shootings the US has, 

 

It bothers me that teachers aren't trusted with books, but whenever a shooting happens, people want them to be armed. It bothers me that I have a plan for what to do if my building is invaded (lock the doors, hide the kids behind the piano, pray...). 

 

 

 I'm going to join Alexander and move to Australia. I really, really hope L goes international for grad school.