Opinion discussion - When a kid is not thriving away at college

[Ginevra]

Thankfully, I do not have/have not had this problem, but I’ve seen it happen numerous times and I want to discuss it. 
 

What do you do if your kid, who is at XYZ University on a full or significant scholarship cannot cope with the environment? In most cases (though not all), these are athletic scholarships so the kid can’t simply quit the sport and continue at the school. And in a couple of cases, what I’ve seen is that it is the team itself that is the problem, for example, drug use in the team and kid does not want to be an outsider but also does not want to use drugs. 
 

What is the ideal solution? Bring kid home? Transfer to a less expensive, totally different school? Would you be inclined to have kiddo finish the season/semester/year, or act immediately? Or maybe that just depends on the amount of distress and how resilient v. fragile that kid is to begin with? 
 

Anyone BTDT want to talk about their experience? My good friend is going through this right now and it is on my mind. 

[Katy]

I have no idea, but I watched that kind of thing myself and I’d like to hear the opinions. I have a college friend who was offered pot in the sorority pledge process, turned everyone in, ended up getting the Panhellenic counsel or something allow her to pledge a different sorority, change schools, and pledge a different one. I was always a little stunned that it all worked out for her. Lovely girl, but I was never that morally certain about light drugs

[plansrme]

Athletes even in non-rev sports can enter the NCAA's transfer portal and potentially still compete for a different school. My daughter did that for her sport; she went from a D1 full ride to another D1 full ride. She had coaches reaching out to her within an hour of entering the portal. I don't know if athletes transfer more often than non-athletes (not in my experience), but being an athlete doesn't mean you are stuck at a school that is a bad fit.

ETA: My daughter transferred because of issues with the coach. She loved her teammates and is still friends with several of them. She finished her freshman year, including her conference meet, and entered the portal a couple of weeks later, which would have been spring of her second semester. She also reached out to coaches who had made her offers out of high school and had significant interest there, but she ended up in a completely different school.

Edited January 6, 2023 by plansrme

[Bootsie]

I haven't seen this exact scenario, but if I were in the situation I would support my child in making a decision by offering feedback, brainstorming, listing pros and cons, etc.  I would encourage my child to make a well-informed decision.  Questions I would explore are:  How important is the sport?  How important are academics?  What is the possibility of playing sport somewhere else?  How is the student doing academically?  What are other reasonable options--a less expensive school?  A school where the student can commute?  Continuing at the current school and sport but refraining from participation in undesirable activities?  How different will another school/team enivornment really be?  What would need to happen to make the current situation bearable?  What financial support can the family reasonably offer?  Is there something more going on--missing boyfriend/girlfriend?  homesick?  academic pressure?  not enjoying collegiate competition?  

I would be clear what support I am able to provide (which would always include returning home to regroup/reassess), but the ultimate decision would be the student's.

[Carol in Cal.]

I think sometimes you have to scoop your kid out and let the chips fall where they may.  I’ve seen that happen 4-5 times among my friends, each of them involving either severe depression or new substance abuse or both.  Additionally I have a friend who paid off her kid’s dorm contract to get her out of it because of a semi-dangerous roommate situation that really called for physical separation.  It was very fortunate that she had the means to pay for a lateral move or that daughter would have been another one who came home and started over somewhere else.  

I’m not talking about standard helicopter parenting, either.  I’m talking about kids who, for example, call their parents after one semester and say that they have become alcoholics after never drinking before, that they are getting drunk every night and can’t figure out how to stop, and needing to be rescued despite being utterly levelheaded and quite independent before going off to college, or who are hated and screamed at by their roommates for being white despite being liberal in the way that only Californians seemingly can be, but who can’t get moved to another space because of overcrowding, and became utterly depressed by this, or who unaccountably failed to thrive to the extent that they stopped doing any school work and were on the verge of flunking out.  

[Lecka]

My good friend’s daughter spent one year at a D3 private school with an athletic scholarship.  Then she transferred to a D1 state school (in the town where we lived at the time).

It turned out great for her.  It was a wash (or so) financially.

She got to try her soccer dreams but the school wasn’t a good fit for her, and playing soccer in college wasn’t a good fit for her, either.  
 

It was the daughter’s decision, but the mom at least was always skeptical that the D1 private school would be a good fit for her.  But both parents were very supportive of the soccer part. 
 

Edit:  I’m realizing there are details I don’t know.  But I know the daughter *only* liked the school for soccer.  Her mom didn’t think she would consider going there if not for soccer.  Her mom also thought she identified as a soccer player in a way that wouldn’t really last after high school… like, she needed to adjust her identity.  But I think she did that during her Freshman year because it was a different situation and then she went to a school that — her mom at least thought was a better fit all along.  
 

The daughter also had had an internship during her Senior year in high school and I think the town where the private school was located had fewer opportunities like that, while she wanted to do more like that.  So she went more in that direction.  I think the mom thought that would be an issue, before the daughter went to the private school.  

Edited January 6, 2023 by Lecka

[plansrme]

13 minutes ago, Lecka said:

My good friend’s daughter spent one year at a D3 private school with an athletic scholarship.  Then she transferred to a D1 state school (in the town where we lived at the time).

It turned out great for her.  It was a wash (or so) financially.

She got to try her soccer dreams but the school wasn’t a good fit for her, and playing soccer in college wasn’t a good fit for her, either.  
 

It was the daughter’s decision, but the mom at least was always skeptical that the D1 private school would be a good fit for her.  But both parents were very supportive of the soccer part. 

D3 schools can't offer athletic scholarships. That is probably irrelevant to her experience, but any scholarship she received was for other reasons.

[EmilyGF]

One of my best friends was in such a situation and she took a good year+ off (which meant leaving the country because of her visa). She went home and was able to put her life back in order in a way that made it possible for her to come back 15 months later and thrive.

My brother quit his college after freshman year, went to a community college, and then transferred. I think that it would have been better if he'd transferred earlier.

Emily

[TheReader]

We learned the very hard way, although not irreversible/life/death way, that mental health trumps everything. Period. Full stop. 

Does that mean every single "I'm struggling, Mom/Dad, this is hard" conversation MUST end in "then come home"?  No, probably not. But if previously open lines of communication start closing, if a chatty kid goes quiet, if grades are slipping, if mom/dad see things that concern them - not just "she's adjusting, but slowly" or "he's not making friends really fast, but his grades are good" - but start to truly get concerned -- yes, bring the kid home and help him/her transfer to a different environment, get the help they need, etc. 

If they want to start with what on-campus helps there are, and see if that improves things, that's probably okay too if the kid will do so/cooperate. 

If there's no history of mental health issues/depression/etc. already, also maybe not as severe a situation. 

But just....be and remain aware, in touch, and intervene sooner rather than later, before the problem gets too big. 

[sassenach]

BTDT.

My college athlete came home and is doing juco for a year. His school and team just was not a great fit. The school was too small and the team lost a key coach early his freshman year. TBD on how it will pan out. Many good athletes end up going the juco route for a variety of reasons. Generally, there is always the next school that's ready to recruit. Ds's team last year was about half transfers. There's more movement than you would believe in college athletics. This kid is doing fine and will transfer somewhere, I'm sure. He needs to keep playing his sport because he's just not all that academically motivated. 

Now, for the general topic of kids not doing great in college- all 3 of my college bound kids have struggled. It makes me wonder who these kids are that just immediately thrive. My eldest crashed and burned- failed out and lost academic scholarships. She came home for a year, then when back to CC for a semester, then left for good. She's still working as a nanny and is fairly directionless. 

Youngest is really driven and social, so I was kind of shocked by how hard of a time she had adjusting, but in truth it was only about half a semester. It felt so long when I was fielding daily tear-filled phone calls. She seems to have turned the corner and is going to be just fine now. So much of it was roommate problems.

[Lecka]

(I am realizing — I think she did get a scholarship for other reasons, but she went to play on the soccer team.)

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

 
 

What do you do if your kid, who is at XYZ University on a full or significant scholarship cannot cope with the environment? In most cases (though not all), these are athletic scholarships so the kid can’t simply quit the sport and continue at the school. And in a couple of cases, what I’ve seen is that it is the team itself that is the problem, for example, drug use in the team and kid does not want to be an outsider but also does not want to use drugs. 
 

What is the ideal solution? Bring kid home? Transfer to a less expensive, totally different school? Would you be inclined to have kiddo finish the season/semester/year, or act immediately? Or maybe that just depends on the amount of distress and how resilient v. fragile that kid is to begin with? 
 

Anyone BTDT want to talk about their experience? My good friend is going through this right now and it is on my mind. 

They can quit the sport - they will lose the athletic scholarship, but they do not automatically lose their place at the school.

A friend's son's athletic schedule commitments constantly conflicted with him taking the classes he needed for his major.  I don't recall whether he changed his major to something without the schedule conflicts so he could finish and get out, or he quit the scholarship and finished his degree. (They own their own business which he understood well.  A degree was a formality.)

2dd did an NCAA sport in college - First, it was five hours a day, and she was in college for an education, not a sport. She wasn't willing to give a sport that type of time commitment when she had classes for a major she wanted to do, and a job. (and the travel expenses she was expected to pay.)  and yeah she was expected to hang out with the team on the weekends, when they were getting drunk (and worse) because they didn't know any other way to have fun.  She didn't have an athletic scholarship - so she quit the team. (angering the coach)

 If staying at the school will not work financially, I would pull them to a more affordable school.   Usually state schools can offer a good education, for less.   Tuition rates even for state schools can vary considerably.   2dd had a friend who went to Medical School in Texas because it was much cheaper than in his home state, even as an out of state student.

[pinball]

8 minutes ago, TheReader said:

We learned the very hard way, although not irreversible/life/death way, that mental health trumps everything. Period. Full stop. 

Does that mean every single "I'm struggling, Mom/Dad, this is hard" conversation MUST end in "then come home"?  No, probably not. But if previously open lines of communication start closing, if a chatty kid goes quiet, if grades are slipping, if mom/dad see things that concern them - not just "she's adjusting, but slowly" or "he's not making friends really fast, but his grades are good" - but start to truly get concerned -- yes, bring the kid home and help him/her transfer to a different environment, get the help they need, etc. 

If they want to start with what on-campus helps there are, and see if that improves things, that's probably okay too if the kid will do so/cooperate. 

If there's no history of mental health issues/depression/etc. already, also maybe not as severe a situation. 

But just....be and remain aware, in touch, and intervene sooner rather than later, before the problem gets too big. 

Great post.

Sometimes serious mental health issues DO begin in the late teens/early 20s…schizophrenia and bipolar disorder are 2.

[gardenmom5]

56 minutes ago, Katy said:

I have no idea, but I watched that kind of thing myself and I’d like to hear the opinions. I have a college friend who was offered pot in the sorority pledge process, turned everyone in, ended up getting the Panhellenic counsel or something allow her to pledge a different sorority, change schools, and pledge a different one. I was always a little stunned that it all worked out for her. Lovely girl, but I was never that morally certain about light drugs

Good for the girl and glad it worked out for her.  

My brother had a very small grow operation in our basement and was dealing that (It's also why any "grower" claiming their ten plants was *only* for personal use I see as total baloney.) and harder drugs out of our house.   Even months after he left, we'd still have druggies come by (usually) late at night looking for him so they could get a score.  I saw the effects of it up close and personal on a daily basis.  I have zero tolerance for it. 

[Soror]

Off the top of my head, I know 2 kids this happened to in the last year. 

One is a close friend her son come home Spring 22 from his first year of college. He'd done fine fall semester (seemed well by all accounts and had a B average) but fell into a depression spring semester. He stopped going to classes and doing anything at all really. Said he was fine and busy until he finally cracked and told them. He is now home and working FT at a factory. He doesn't want to do it forever but can't figure out what else he wants to do. His depression is much, much better. His dad and grandpa were both late bloomers so they are just doing their best to support him.

Another is an acquaintance--

His son got a decent sports scholarship to a private college a few hours away. He transferred back to the local jr college at the end of the fall semester 22. There was too much partying for his like and he felt out of place being the country boy surrounded by city kids. He did well in academics and in the sports but just decided it was a bad fit for him. 

TBH I'm waiting to see if my son becomes one of these. He wants to go off to college desperately. I don't know if he's ready for it. I don't really think he'll miss the family but I do think he'll miss gf and friends that are staying here. He's sure this is what he wants to do. 

Some kids just aren't ready and sometimes things aren't want they seem and are a bad fit. 

Time will tell what happens here. I'm trying not to hold tightly to any course of action or outcome because I have little control over either. 

[Toocrazy!!]

I know so many kids that had a really hard year last year - their first year at college. I'm not sure if it was Covid related to the end of their high school years, or just something else covid related, but it was across the board for a lot of kids. I heard of more boys, but that might just be my group of friends. Kids who are exceptionally bright and did well in high school almost flunking out, outgoing kids who couldn't find a new group, it was kind of all over the place. I remember my freshman year being hard all these years later. It's a lot to get used to, there are a lot of challenges. 

My DS chose not to go to college at all, which was not what we thought was going to happen a few years ago, but he absolutely refused. So maybe I've come around to this, but college doesn't have to be the only answer at this age. If the kid is truly not doing well, change it up. A new school, a new major, living somewhere different, or working. Sometimes kids this age can't see the options, think this is the only plan and they have to sink or swim. 

We were helping out a young adult who dropped out the spring of his freshman year. When he came here for spring break it was evident he couldn't currently make a go of college. His mental health wouldn't survive it. He got himself a decent job and a nice work environment and improved a lot. Now is the time for some other life decisions and moving forward, but leaving college was the absolute only choice for him at the time. 

[kirstenhill]

57 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Now, for the general topic of kids not doing great in college- all 3 of my college bound kids have struggled. It makes me wonder who these kids are that just immediately thrive. My eldest crashed and burned- failed out and lost academic scholarships. She came home for a year, then when back to CC for a semester, then left for good. She's still working as a nanny and is fairly directionless. 

 

One semester in my DD has thrived pretty much right from the start...It was definitely different from my experience, where I thrived fairly quickly socially but took a whole year to find my stride academically (I needed to change my major).   I think for her it is a bit of a "Goldilocks" combination of factors with a social group she found right away with a campus ministry she joined, first semester classes that were not too hard but just hard enough to need to grow in study/time management skills,  a decent roommate/dorm situation, a campus job she really likes.  Any one of those things not going well could have made the semester miserable.  

She has always been a relatively independent kid, so I figured she would find her way in college pretty well.  The only minor crisis was the day she thought her bike got stolen.  After reassuring her we could help her replace the bike if needed and talking her through where she might have parked her bike near the dorm, she finally checked and realized she had locked up her bike in a totally different part of the dorm complex from where she usually left it.  😄 I was so happy for her that it was still there.

I am not expecting to be so fortunate with my subsequent kids.    I think each of the boys give me reason to doubt it will all go so smoothly for them!

To the OPs question, I think if I had a kid who was struggling in a major way, I would encourage them to finish the semester unless it was a true mental health crisis.  Then look into more affordable places to transfer to (living at home, cheapest in-state/public options, etc) and encourage this route rather than stick it out with a sport that wasn't working out...same for a scholarship tied to a major the kid ends up hating, or whatever.  I lost a scholarship when I changed majors, but luckily it was only a fairly small amount per year, so my parents were able to make up the difference.  Had that not been the case I think I would have had to look at transferring to an in-state school or some other cheaper solution.

[ScoutTN]

1 hour ago, Soror said:

 

Time will tell what happens here. I'm trying not to hold tightly to any course of action or outcome because I have little control over either. 

This. So much this.

[pinball]

How resilient vs fragile the kid is? What does this even mean?

2 hours ago, Quill said:

how resilient v. fragile that kid is to begin with? 

In one instance I know of, a girl called her parents a few weeks into 1st semester her freshman year and said come & get me. Dropped out, gave no explanation, left a full scholarship & team that she’d be heavily recruited to play for in a key role.

she came home and got a job at a FF restaurant. She told people college wasn’t for her.

a couple years later, she told her parents she had been raped a few days before she called them to come & get her.

she was as tough as can be, not fragile at all. Nothing could keep her down.

 

[MEmama]

We’re navigating this now. It’s…complicated.

The only thing I know for certain is that there is no single “right” solution, only hope for doing the least harm.

Good luck to your friend, @Quill, and to everyone else in this situation.  

[whitestavern]

Going through this now as well. One and a half years at college. Took a semester off to work on mental health (anxiety and depression) and ADHD issues. Summer classes at comm college then a semester as a day student at a state directional. Now taking time off again and working. It’s really hard for all involved. Taking it day by day and trying not to worry too much. 

ETA: among my long time friend group all except for 1 or 2 of the sons are flailing. Some never went to school, some dropped out, some in but not doing well. I don’t know what the cause is. All the daughters are doing fine. It’s worrisome. 

Edited January 6, 2023 by whitestavern

[livetoread]

Ha, we've white-knuckled college with both our kids.

I could write a long missive, but I'll just say we had to bring our oldest home his Senior year after a severe mental health crisis, and it was the right decision. He did finally managed to graduate, but never went back to living near campus.

Our youngest has struggled every minute of their college experience mentally and academically (after straight As in high school and community college) but we decided to agree to let them stay and fight it out because bringing them home would have meant social isolation and that part has always been good for them at college (after lots of dysfunctional friendships during high school years). There have been some very dark semesters and I don't know if we made the right decision, but just last semester (fourth year) they did well all around so yay. All the issues plus changing majors have added another year on, but it's looking hopeful they will pull it out and graduate. They have great, supportive friends and a strong mental health care team there which factored into our decision. They have absolutely grown in independence and confidence by coming as far as they have, but like I said, there were some white knuckle times and I'm hardly sure we are done with those.

It helped that both kids were about an hour away and we spent many hours driving there to provide support, especially with youngest. We were completely footing the college bill so we had a lot of say, though we tried hard to let them make their own choices around it. 

[Lori D.]

Ug. So sorry. That's hard.

About 20 years ago, my cousin, got a tennis scholarship (not a full-ride, but a good-sized scholarship) to a school several thousand miles away. From day 1 the coach made her life miserable, and she struggled to connect with teammates, students, the school, and the very different culture of where the college was located. She stuck it out for a year (maybe 1.5 years?), but was so miserable and was struggling in every way that she ended up quitting tennis entirely and transferred home to go to the university in her family's city (so at the cheaper in-state tuition rate). She was much happier, and finished with a degree and moved on.

Sports (or any extracurricular) are great -- until the group makes it miserable. I don't see that it "builds character" to be bullied or abused or harassed or forced into potentially bad or dangerous decisions/actions because a person feels stressed and unable to say no to the peer pressure.

I also think that the stress of covid pandemic and all that came with it, plus all the social pressure of cancel culture, and the peer pressures from social media in general, has really added huge amounts of additional stress on young people today. If it were my young person, I'd say "come home now, and let's find something else that works to get you moving forward toward your goal, rather than setting you back with unhealthy hurdles." 

Just how I see it.

[Clarita]

It's such a hard decision and there isn't a right answer. 

I just have to say don't overlook or downplay the mental health piece of sticking it through. My family (including me) have experience with pushing ourselves too hard to complete a degree program. One person still (decades later) suffer from situational panic attacks that began when they pushed themselves too hard to complete a Bachelors. I should have took a semester or a year or even not completed my Masters, in fact the day I graduated I said I shouldn't have done this. 

On the flip side I also know people who really regretted not sticking with college and just quitting when it seemed hard. 

I clearly have no idea how to draw the line between you should just push through because you'll come through the whole experience a better person and you'll feel great about it and when it's this is too much and it won't be fulfilling at the end.

[Garga]

I don’t know if I should have all read this. My son has required So Much Support in his 3 years at community college. He’ll be going to the university in the fall, about an hour’s drive away. 

I have trepidation with a dash of hope. Everything is just so hard for him. Mostly it’s because of ADHD, which I have come to detest. I hate ADHD So Much.

So many of the posts on this thread are about mental health issues and college and…I just shouldn’t have read it. Or maybe it’s exactly what I should have read. URGH.

 

My son adores math and is a math major, but a part of me wishes that he could just find a trade and do that instead, just because college is such a hurdle. The problem is that I don’t think he would ultimately thrive in a trade; he would thrive doing mathy-things as a career. But this college hurdle is just so daunting.

Edited January 6, 2023 by Garga

[MEmama]

1 minute ago, Garga said:

I don’t know if I should have read this. My son has required So Much Support in his 3 years at community college. He’ll be going to the 4 year in the fall, about an hour’s drive away. 

I have trepidation with a dash of hope. Everything is just so hard for him. Mostly it’s because of ADHD, which I have come to detest. I hate ADHD So Much.

This thread is so helpful for me. I’ve been feeling really lonely throughout this journey and it helps to hear that it’s actually not uncommon. 
 

Of course I’d rather that none of our kids have to go through it! 

[lewelma]

My cousin was on a full ride scholarship to Stanford for football about 15 years ago. The day he got a concussion on the field and was told to ride his bike (not motorized) to the emergency room, was the day that he found another school. He has no memory of the bike ride, the concussion was that bad. He transferred to U Penn and played football for them. 

[Soror]

5 minutes ago, MEmama said:

This thread is so helpful for me. I’ve been feeling really lonely throughout this journey and it helps to hear that it’s actually not uncommon. 

I've not been through a kid not thriving at college but I have went through one not thriving at high school in a big, huge way. 

It was a massive, massive help for me to find other parents that dealt with kids struggling to various degrees. My one close friend whose son came home mid-Spring semester after a mental health break found some older moms that had went through the same and it was a lifeline for her during that difficult time. I hope you (and others) find some IRL support (HUGS)

This is just so much judgement in parenting- by others, by ourselves. I thought it was bad when they were small- the bf'ing/sleeping/disciplining debates. This is all so much more.

Anyway, I think it is wrong to see it as any kind of failure to see kids not thriving at college. Not a failure of the parents or of the kids.

I think it is more just that college is seen as the path and it isn't the right path for every kid but it isn't. Maybe they need time to mature. Maybe they need to go into trades. There are too many maybes.

And in the end when we're talking about college aged "kids" they are mostly legal adults able to make their own decisions. And some "kid's" brains are slower to mature. I know when we got the ADHD diagnosis the NP told us to expect him to be 20% behind peers in maturity. But he's a legal adult and can make decisions for himself. Sometimes those are good and sometimes not. 

29 minutes ago, Clarita said:

I just have to say don't overlook or downplay the mental health piece of sticking it through. My family (including me) have experience with pushing ourselves too hard to complete a degree program. One person still (decades later) suffer from situational panic attacks that began when they pushed themselves too hard to complete a Bachelors. I should have took a semester or a year or even not completed my Masters, in fact the day I graduated I said I shouldn't have done this. 

On the flip side I also know people who really regretted not sticking with college and just quitting when it seemed hard. 

I think overall we idolize the ideal of not quitting to the detriment of mental health. And IDC what anyone else thinks if my kid finds themselves in an activity, program, class etc and find it has become harmful for them I'm not going to force them to stick with it. That doesn't mean I always agree with their choices and encourage them through a difficult period but in the end it's their life.

[livetoread]

25 minutes ago, Garga said:

I have trepidation with a dash of hope. Everything is just so hard for him. Mostly it’s because of ADHD, which I have come to detest. I hate ADHD So Much.

My youngest got an ADHD coach last year and credits that with their massive improvement this semester. The coach isn't cheap but was invaluable in helping guide youngest through possible resources when youngest was less accepting of it from us. And got to say, the coach is still much cheaper than having to retake courses because you flunked (had some of that, too). Youngest has not found medication to be much help, and they have tried a few different kinds and dosages, but maybe that's because they just have a lot else going on too and who knows what feeds into what?

[Ting Tang]

My first year of college was hard, in part, due to familial circumstances.  However, I really didn't care for my environment or like it.  I was not there to play sports, but I did have a scholarship.  I was able to interview and get a transfer scholarship to a different school.  And I am so glad I did.  I often fail to mention I was a transfer student. I try to block out that initial experience.  I'm not sure what I have added, other than, sometimes the place you think is right isn't right. 

[MEmama]

40 minutes ago, livetoread said:

My youngest got an ADHD coach last year and credits that with their massive improvement this semester. The coach isn't cheap but was invaluable in helping guide youngest through possible resources when youngest was less accepting of it from us. And got to say, the coach is still much cheaper than having to retake courses because you flunked (had some of that, too). Youngest has not found medication to be much help, and they have tried a few different kinds and dosages, but maybe that's because they just have a lot else going on too and who knows what feeds into what?

I'd love to hear how the ADHD coach was helpful, if you don’t mind sharing.

We are exploring all options for DS, but it’s extra tricky since he’s in school overseas. Every therapist I’ve been in touch with isn’t accepting new patients and I’m curious how coaches actually work. 

[livetoread]

1 hour ago, MEmama said:

I'd love to hear how the ADHD coach was helpful, if you don’t mind sharing.

We are exploring all options for DS, but it’s extra tricky since he’s in school overseas. Every therapist I’ve been in touch with isn’t accepting new patients and I’m curious how coaches actually work. 

This particular coach works on a sliding scale but since we were near the top, it didn't help us much. I researched using 529 money and while many do, it's not officially okay and we decided to just pay cash. No insurance that I know of covers it. The coach also works with 2e kids. We've let our kid take the lead in finding the person and deciding how to use them, though we had serious reservations it would be a money waste and we had personal criteria for improvement that we decided we wanted to see that we didn't share with kid (long story - trust me it's better that way for all concerned with this kid).

Kid and coach work over the phone and usually talk about 45 min once a week. That has been a few months now, and kid is planning on cutting back to 30 min once a week now. Kid started with coach after failing two of three classes spring semester of last year and got all As this semester. Kid says coach was helpful in steering them towards school resources, telling them about a particular note taking device they found very helpful, and great about discussing numerous tricks and methods to help with kid's procrastination that becomes paralysis at times. Coach is supportive and knowledgable about things that might work and doesn't take it personally when kid pushes back on what wouldn't which kid appreciates. Kid says it feels very collaborative. Sometimes coach will have kid do the thing kid is procrastinating about on the phone with them.

I'm thinking one of the biggest helps is she isn't me, lol, though I'm sure she has plenty of knowledge I lack. Kid has been in years of therapy which was helpful for their mental health issues, but the coach was clearly good for school stuff. Actually kid found them helpful enough with mental health stuff to take a therapy break for awhile as well. I think the timing was good - kid was mentally healthy enough at the time to benefit (though still struggling for sure), had matured enough to want more independence from me, and had made the commitment to finish so things kind of aligned as well.

I'll pm you the link to the coach. Her website says she works with clients outside the country. Like I said, we've been pretty hands off and kid hasn't talked a lot about it, but we are definitely seeing results and kid says it is very helpful.

ETA, we had suggested an ADHD coach after they got diagnosed in college, but they were meh about it. We brought it up as a possibility several times after that, but it took about a year for them to decide to do it. Earlier we would have pushed, but they have reached the level of maturity for that to be counterproductive and it has worked well all coming from them.

Edited January 7, 2023 by livetoread

[Guest]

@Garga I’m sorry for your trepidation. I know that, whatever happens, you will figure it out and weather it. Just like we were just talking about all the pitfalls…it’s hard sometimes but you will make it and your sons will make it. 
 

And, I know what you mean about ADHD. It’s a bugger. 

[Garga]

16 minutes ago, livetoread said:

This particular coach works on a sliding scale but since we were near the top, it didn't help us much. I researched using 529 money and while many do, it's not officially okay and we decided to just pay cash. No insurance that I know of covers it. The coach also works with 2e kids. We've let our kid take the lead in finding the person and deciding how to use them, though we had serious reservations it would be a money waste and we had personal criteria for improvement that we decided we wanted to see that we didn't share with kid (long story - trust me it's better that way for all concerned with this kid).

Kid and coach work over the phone and usually talk about 45 min once a week. That has been a few months now, and kid is planning on cutting back to 30 min once a week now. Kid started with coach after failing two of three classes spring semester of last year and got all As this semester. Kid says coach was helpful in steering them towards school resources, telling them about a particular note taking device they found very helpful, and great about discussing numerous tricks and methods to help with kid's procrastination that becomes paralysis at times. Coach is supportive and knowledgable about things that might work and doesn't take it personally when kid pushes back on what wouldn't which kid appreciates. Kid says it feels very collaborative. Sometimes coach will have kid do the thing kid is procrastinating about on the phone with them.

I'm thinking one of the biggest helps is she isn't me, lol, though I'm sure she has plenty of knowledge I lack. Kid has been in years of therapy which was helpful for their mental health issues, but the coach was clearly good for school stuff. Actually kid found them helpful enough with mental health stuff to take a therapy break for awhile as well. I think the timing was good - kid was mentally healthy enough at the time to benefit (though still struggling for sure), had matured enough to want more independence from me, and had made the commitment to finish so things kind of aligned as well.

I'll pm you the link to the coach. Her website says she works with clients outside the country. Like I said, we've been pretty hands off and kid hasn't talked a lot about it, but we are definitely seeing results and kid says it is very helpful.

ETA, we had suggested an ADHD coach after they got diagnosed in college, but they were meh about it. We brought it up as a possibility several times after that, but it took about a year for them to decide to do it. Earlier we would have pushed, but they have reached the level of maturity for that to be counterproductive and it has worked well all coming from them.

Can you PM me their information as well? 

[Corraleno]

Every fall the parents' FB group for DS's university is filled with posts from distressed parents whose kids are calling home in tears, saying how unhappy they are, they haven't made any friends, they feel like they're in totally over their heads academically, even failing a class or two, they're terribly homesick, etc., and the overwhelming response from other parents is "my kid felt the same way, was convinced he/she had made a terrible mistake, wanted to come home, etc. — but things were much better by the end of spring semester and now they love it and can't imagine being anywhere else." I think the vast majority of the time that is how things work out, but of course there are also some awful stories of kids who tried to stick it out with tragic results. Unfortunately, knowing which approach will work best for any individual kid is something each parent has to figure out for themselves.

I think DS's experience was pretty typical — he felt totally overwhelmed freshman year as a severely ADHD kid trying to juggle a rigorous academic load with 20-60 hrs/wk of varsity practice/travel/competition, in a huge university 2400 miles from home where he felt completely lost. He had academic and athletic scholarships covering full OOS tuition and partial R&B (plus thousands of dollars worth of equipment and travel), and I didn't want him to lose all that without really giving it a shot. So I provided a lot of practical, logistical, and emotional support that year, and even flew out to visit him a few times just to provide hugs and healthy food and help him decompress a bit. (Caveat: he is pretty self-aware and articulate about his issues, and totally welcomes the help; I know these decisions can be a lot more difficult when kids are less forthcoming and/or less accepting of help.) DS still struggles with depression and anxiety sometimes, but he graduated on time with a 3.96 GPA, is still there in grad school, and is very glad I didn't bring him home when he was totally miserable that first year.

I will also say that I think that adding varsity athletics into the picture can really complicate things, especially when there's a scholarship on the line.  The general vibe of the team can make or break a student's experience, and even one nasty teammate or a bullying coach can make it unbearable. If the team turns out to be a bad fit but the athlete wants to continue competing on a varsity level (especially if they need athletic money to pay for college), they can enter the transfer portal and reach out to other coaches. OTOH, if they like the current school but not the team (or they find they just can't handle a full course load + the intensity of varsity sports), and they can afford to give up the athletic money, they can just quit the team, even if they were a recruited athlete who got in with a coach's slot. Many schools with varsity teams also have a club team in the same sport, so kids who still want to play for fun can go that route.

 

[ScoutTN]

3 hours ago, livetoread said:

My youngest got an ADHD coach last year and credits that with their massive improvement this semester. The coach isn't cheap but was invaluable in helping guide youngest through possible resources when youngest was less accepting of it from us. And got to say, the coach is still much cheaper than having to retake courses because you flunked (had some of that, too). Youngest has not found medication to be much help, and they have tried a few different kinds and dosages, but maybe that's because they just have a lot else going on too and who knows what feeds into what?

Where did you find an ADHD coach? I have looked and come up empty.

[livetoread]

1 hour ago, ScoutTN said:

Where did you find an ADHD coach? I have looked and come up empty.

Pm'd you

[matrips]

All this helps confirm what I’m encouraging my kids to do, at the risk of being of helicopter mom.  We are printing out the 4 year flowcharts for their majors and plotting out each semester in a spreadsheet.  Researching professors and taking notes on courses and teachers.  And then trying to make some schedules that pair any harder classes with some easy A and fun type classes.  And also watching the number of credits.  They realize things will likely shift depending on available courses/teachers, but at least they won’t do what I did as an engineering major.  (Complete overload of credits and so many hard courses 🙄)

I’m hoping a deliberate schedule will help ease the transition.  I’m trying to have them build up their GPA early so they may have less stress about it to keep their scholarship.  We’ll see. 

[livetoread]

2 hours ago, Garga said:

Can you PM me their information as well? 

Done

 

[Shelydon]

My eldest chose a local large university. She lived at home for year one b/c covid. Her online science classes were dismal. Absolutely appalling in content and delivery. The entire university planned to returned to normal in fall '21 EXCEPT the science departments, which is her major. All of the sciences said that it was easier for their professors to do research if they just put up videos. She did last minute transfer to a much smaller university 3 hours from home.  She lost a full scholarship in the process as  transfers in my state are not offered scholarships the same as entering freshman.  However, she has thrived and it was a good move.

[Corraleno]

21 minutes ago, matrips said:

All this helps confirm what I’m encouraging my kids to do, at the risk of being of helicopter mom.  We are printing out the 4 year flowcharts for their majors and plotting out each semester in a spreadsheet.  Researching professors and taking notes on courses and teachers.  And then trying to make some schedules that pair any harder classes with some easy A and fun type classes.  And also watching the number of credits.  

This is what we did, too. And in DS's case, he tried to choose one asynchronous, online GE course per semester whenever possible, to provide more flexibility around his travel schedule. He also did an 8-credit intensive summer language class, which allowed him to take a lower course load senior year when he was taking a couple of graduate classes and also traveling a ton. All that time we spent planning up front totally paid off in the long run.

Every spring I see panicked FB posts from parents whose kids suddenly realize they're 1 GE or a few credits short of graduation requirements and will not graduate on time, and of course they're always railing at the school and the "terrible advisors," after they chose to be totally uninvolved for the last four years. DS has had teammates who ran into serious trouble (including one who lost a full ride scholarship) from not staying on top of the requirements for "adequate progress towards degree." It annoys the hell out of me when parents huffily insist that students should be able to totally handle all aspects of college by the time they're 18 — IMO/IME a pretty significant percentage of kids are really not able to handle it, or they're barely able to handle it but at great cost to their mental health. There's no shame in adults who have BTDT and have much better organizational skills providing support and scaffolding to help kids make the transition.

[Shelydon]

16 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

This is what we did, too. And in DS's case, he tried to choose one asynchronous, online GE course per semester whenever possible, to provide more flexibility around his travel schedule. He also did an 8-credit intensive summer language class, which allowed him to take a lower course load senior year when he was taking a couple of graduate classes and also traveling a ton. All that time we spent planning up front totally paid off in the long run.

Every spring I see panicked FB posts from parents whose kids suddenly realize they're 1 GE or a few credits short of graduation requirements and will not graduate on time, and of course they're always railing at the school and the "terrible advisors," after they chose to be totally uninvolved for the last four years. DS has had teammates who ran into serious trouble (including one who lost a full ride scholarship) from not staying on top of the requirements for "adequate progress towards degree." It annoys the hell out of me when parents huffily insist that students should be able to totally handle all aspects of college by the time they're 18 — IMO/IME a pretty significant percentage of kids are really not able to handle it, or they're barely able to handle it but at great cost to their mental health. There's no shame in adults who have BTDT and have much better organizational skills providing support and scaffolding to help kids make the transition.

I have been acting as an advisor for my second kiddos roommates, helping them choose classes and showing them how to navigate their degree plan. They really don't have any other support, and the academic advisors are of no help

[matrips]

20 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

It annoys the hell out of me when parents huffily insist that students should be able to totally handle all aspects of college by the time they're 18 — IMO/IME a pretty significant percentage of kids are really not able to handle it, or they're barely able to handle it but at great cost to their mental health.

I’m on a forum where the parents say ‘they’re an adult! Let them do it! ” And then the next post is about how much allowance do you give your college kid. 🤦‍♀️

This college, as I’m sure many do, has thousands of web pages. My kids do not have the time for that during senior year to read through and figure out what is needed for next year.  So I’m doing some legwork and working with them.  It is time-consuming.  Class requirements, codes for classes, prerequisites, teacher ratings, credits required to keep scholarship and all the rest of the rules, honors college requirements, residency paperwork, immunization and health forms to complete before signing up for orientation, housing deposits, enrollment deposits, housing selection dates, updating 1st semester grades, sending final transcripts, checking that AP credits have been received, checking for holds, getting holds lifted, scheduling advisor appointments, and so much more to figure out.  It’s just all nitty gritty details and paperwork. How do they even expect kids to find out all this stuff?  I find out from parent pages.

I don’t want them drowning. There are adults that aren’t that organized to keep up with it all.  A big state university just keeps cranking.  You need to follow the rules and program or be out of luck.  Smaller, private schools likely have more flexibility and gentleness.

Edited January 7, 2023 by matrips

[Carol in Cal.]

This makes me so sad.  The thing I miss most about college is that vista of all the knowledge of world being available to me as I studied the course catalog.  

[Shelydon]

31 minutes ago, matrips said:

I’m on a forum where the parents say ‘they’re an adult! Let them do it! ” And then the next post is about how much allowance do you give your college kid. 🤦‍♀️Smaller, private schools likely have more flexibility and gentleness.

I have one student at a small state college that has about 7,000 students. My other college student is at a large university of 40,000 and it is a machine. I wish had gone to a small school, but only big ones offered her degree. 

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, matrips said:

All this helps confirm what I’m encouraging my kids to do, at the risk of being of helicopter mom.  We are printing out the 4 year flowcharts for their majors and plotting out each semester in a spreadsheet.  Researching professors and taking notes on courses and teachers.  And then trying to make some schedules that pair any harder classes with some easy A and fun type classes.  And also watching the number of credits.  They realize things will likely shift depending on available courses/teachers, but at least they won’t do what I did as an engineering major.  (Complete overload of credits and so many hard courses 🙄)

I’m hoping a deliberate schedule will help ease the transition.  I’m trying to have them build up their GPA early so they may have less stress about it to keep their scholarship.  We’ll see. 

I did this with all my kids freshman year, figuring out all the classes and Gen Ed's and when to take to make them fit without overload and with preReqs taken into account to finish on time. Sophomore year we checked in, but they did most of the work. By junior year they were flying solo, and even with lots if changes to the original plan (inevitable), they knew what to look for and how to make sure they were on top of everything. 

46 minutes ago, Shelydon said:

I have been acting as an advisor for my second kiddos roommates, helping them choose classes and showing them how to navigate their degree plan. They really don't have any other support, and the academic advisors are of no help

 I also helped some of my kids' friends. 

And to the bolded - so much this. Most of the 'advisors' are recent grads who weren't even in a related program, and have no.flipping.clue.

[Shoeless]

I haven't read all the responses, so maybe what I say is redundant. 

If they aren't doing well, bring them home to regroup. If they can manage to finish the semester with decent grades, then maybe have them finish, but if they've hit the point where they're flunking classes and/or severely depressed, then it's time to come home.  It's not a failure for parent or child if they aren't ready to live independently just a few weeks after graduating high school. It's also a bit of a myth that everyone "back in the day" was perfectly capable of independent living at age 17 or 18 and did so without issue. Not saying that anyone here claims that as true, but it's an attitude I've bumped up against before "Kids today are soft! In my day blah blah blah...uphill, both ways, in the snow..."

I did ok my first year of college but started to crash and burn halfway through year 2 when all family support was suddenly yanked.  I didn't have a lot of family support through high school or freshman year but losing the little bit I had, (coupled with the abusive boyfriend), spelled disaster. 

[Ausmumof3]

One thing that always strikes me in these discussions is this whole living away for college thing. It seems like it contributes to so many problems - higher debt due to living and accomodation costs, mental health etc issues due to being away from home and network. It’s not that people here don’t ever do that but mostly it’s because they’re rural or their degree is not offered locally. It seems like in the US it’s just the normal thing. It seems nuts to me that kids are expected to figure out independent living and a new education environment and system all at the same time. 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Ausmumof3

[Soror]

@Corraleno the thing is your group is self-selecting of the parents of kids who made it. The parents of the kids that don't make it aren't likely to stick around. 

And the kids that aren't making that I know none of it has had to do with not picking the right classes or anything like that. They have involved parents. 

The parents on this forum with kids struggling haven't just left them on their own, flailing along without help. That's what some of these posts come across like. Well, I did this so my kid is fine. A person can do all the things and a kid still not thrive at college. It isn't always the right choice and not because someone dropped the ball or did something wrong.

My dh is in college now and we're well versed on choosing classes, looking at pre-requisites, requirements yada yada. We've been doing it for the last 5 years and it's a hell of a lot more complicated for dh as a non-trad student. All the worries I have about ds making it at college have nothing to do with any of that. That's the easy part to control. There are many more things you can't control. Like whether they have the self-discipline and ability to wake up, go to class, and do the work when away from home. Whether they have mental health issues exacerbated by the stress of being away because even if they like it change is a stress. Whether they fit into the culture of their college or get along with their room mate. Whether or not they will communicate any difficulties with us so we can help them or advocate for themselves.

 

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Soror

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

One thing that always strikes me in these discussions is this whole living away for college thing. It seems like it contributes to so many problems - higher debt due to living and accomodation costs, mental health etc issues due to being away from home and network. It’s not that people here don’t ever do that but mostly it’s because they’re rural or their degree is not offered locally. It seems like in the US it’s just the normal thing. It seems nuts to me that kids are expected to figure out independent living and a new education environment and system all at the same time. 

This is a reason I don’t really endorse moving far away for college if it is not necessary for the major/opportunities.  I want my kids close enough that they still have access to family/friends/bf-gf, and even familiar culture. But I do recognize that I live where there are very good public colleges to choose from practically at my doorstep. My two graduates could live at college and still be home in 1-3 hours. 
 

I know not everyone wants this and I don’t judge families who want to provide a different experience by sending kids off to Giant Southern University. But I have seen school-failure-to-thrive happen more in those scenarios than the other.