If a mom introduces someone as “Kid’s Dad”

[heartlikealion]

1 minute ago, perky said:

((big giant hugs)) My dh and I have certainly referred to each other that way in a variety of circumstances.  Nobody gets mad.  

I think the issue is they have a pending divorce? 

[Grace Hopper]

Don’t let his anger rule you, or make you feel bad. That’s emotional manipulation. It is his to deal with. 

You have proven again and again that you are a thoughtful person and have gone to great lengths to consider his needs in your relationship. Don’t let him pick on you over this. You spoke truth. Going forward if you need to introduce him, maybe use only his name with no explainer. “This is Joe.” Not Joe, my whatever. Just Joe. He’s an adult and in completing the introduction can describe his own self. 

[Grace Hopper]

9 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

He was furious in the yelling at me in a parking lot full of my kids’ classmates and their parents way.  

That’s not normal behavior. That’s abusive. He’s upset about your words that might make him appear “less than,” but it’s okay to demean you by yelling at you in front of all these people? Unacceptable. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Grace Hopper

[Kassia]

5 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

That’s not normal behavior. That’s abusive. He’s upset about your words that might make him appear “less than,” but it’s okay to demean you by yelling at you in front of all these people? Unacceptable. 

QFT!

[Elizabeth86]

LOL I do this ALL the time. If I’m talking about dh to a friend I might say something like , “Thier Dad is kind of strict.” Of course if they know me they know, but after the fact I always think it sounds like we aren’t together, but we are and I am pretty certain we always will be. 🤷‍♀️WHY I do this, but I always say their dad instead of my husband, but I guess that just sounds like we are married and he isn’t their father, so I guess I should say my husband and kids dad.

Side note, but dh does odd things too. For instance I don’t know if he has ever said my name.He talks to me, but never says my Hey Elizabeth… When he introduces me he just says my wife and sometimes he calls me mommy because I started calling him daddy when our kids were born. Why? Because my parents have always said mom and dad to each other, I just thought it was normal. My aunt and uncle always called each other Maw and Paw, lol I’m weird.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Elizabeth86

[Innisfree]

45 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

I think the issue is they have a pending divorce? 

I think not, actually. I think it’s a separation of indeterminate length because of his mental health issues. @Baseballandhockeyhas indicated that she has no intention to divorce (correct me if I’m wrong, Bb&h). Which just underlines his insecurity and instability, because she’s not trying to leave him, she’s trying to help him while protecting their kids.

 Baseballandhockey, I’ve referred to my husband as my kids’ dad on numerous occasions. Sometimes that’s the pertinent relationship to mention, and calling him my husband sounds like it’s a second marriage, which it isn’t. You did nothing wrong. He’s not being rational.

Eta that I agree about documenting the incident. ☹️ I’m so sorry you have to deal with this.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Innisfree

[Grace Hopper]

2 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

I think not, actually. I think it’s a separation of indeterminate length because of his mental health issues. @Baseballandhockeyhas indicated that she has no intention to divorce (correct me if I’m wrong, Bb&h). Which just underlines his insecurity and instability, because she’s not trying to leave him, she’s trying to help him.

 Baseballandhockey, I’ve referred to my husband as my kids’ dad on numerous occasions. Sometimes that’s the pertinent relationship to mention, and calling him my husband sounds like it’s a second marriage, which it isn’t. You did nothing wrong. He’s not being rational.

IIRC there are concerns about who would end up with custody (or unsupervised visits, or visits supervised by people who indulge his inappropriate behavior) should they divorce before the children reach an age where that no longer matters. B&H is in a challenging spot. 
 

Do share this with your attorney, OP. A statement from the security guard would be helpful to have on file. I fear one day you’ll post that his behavior escalated beyond irrational thoughts and words. You need to gather all evidence as you go in order to be ready to protect your kids. 

[heartlikealion]

@Innisfreeand @Grace Hopper thank you for context. I know she explained the legal custody in another thread, but I'm not sure about physical. I don't know if they physically live under the same roof right now. If divorce is not even on the table right now I can understand why he might be clinging to the husband title (if he doesn't want to separate). I don't know his full mindset, though. And I'm not excusing the way he responded. He can feel hurt, but the outburst was not ok. 

[maize]

Not at all. I often speak of my husband as my kids' dad. In relationship to the kids, that is what he is--so it makes sense to refer to him that way when talking to someone who knows my kids, or in a context involving the kids.

[Dianthus]

11 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

He was furious in the yelling at me in a parking lot full of my kids’ classmates and their parents way.  

I've been off the chat for awhile and wondering because last I saw you were trying to work things out (several months ago)? Is he consistently like this? Yelling?

[regentrude]

If the context is kid related (school, kid activity),  I would not read it as a statement about the relationship. Now if someone introduced a person at a dinner party as their kid's parent, I would assume that they want to make the point that they're not a couple. But at a kid event? Totally normal. Back when mine were little, lots of folks at activities were known as "Abby's mom" or "John's dad". Because in the context,  that is the important relationship. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by regentrude

[Dianthus]

My dh and I have a good relationship. When my child is with me, I've talked about dh as "child's dad" or introduced him as such to the child's teacher. It just makes it relevant to the child since the person knows the child. Does that make sense. I do it and our relationship is good. I think it's a fine thing to say. I don't know how else you should have phrased it with your circumstances.

[maize]

11 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think for me, I'd feel really upset about this because this interchange embarrassed me in front of other people. 

I think I'd probably tell that to him to get that out. But then I'd try to figure out what it was he was reacting to. 

This is a person who has a history of irrational reactions and behavior.

We can't live our lives walking on eggshells trying to avoid irrational reactions from such people. I try to not let someone else's mental illness control my behavior--it's the only way to stay sane myself.

(Necessary caveat: like most rules, there are times to break this one. I DO sometimes choose to make specific accommodations for someone's mental illness/emotional volatility. People and relationships are complicated and simple rules don't provide sufficient direction for every situation. The don't-allow-someone-else's-malfunctioning-brain-control-over-my-behavior rule, however, is a good standard 99% of the time.) 

[Bambam]

I don't know that I've ever done this (my kids are adults now), but I don't think I'd think anything if we were at a kid event - school, sport, bday party, etc. Now if we were somewhere the kids weren't, and I said this was My kid's dad, that would be weird, I think.  Introduction and defined relationship changes based on the event. 

((hugs)) as you try to navigate this. I cannot imagine how difficult this must be for you and your children. 

[vonfirmath]

4 hours ago, wendyroo said:

I have to deal with this exact issue today.

I am calling a woman I have never met to RSVP that Spencer will be attending her son's birthday party. DH will be accompanying him.

So I could tell her "Spencer will be coming with his dad" which sounds like we are divorced and his dad has custody that weekend.

Or I could tell her "Spencer will be coming with my husband" which sounds like he is Spencer's stepfather.

See I'd say Spencer will be coming with his dad.

And not even think twice that the person might think we are divorced.

Sometimes his dad takes the kids. Sometimes I do. It's just how it goes.

 

[heartlikealion]

2 hours ago, Elizabeth86 said:

LOL I do this ALL the time. If I’m talking about dh to a friend…

I’d probably just use first name. They are my friend, they know who he is. “Name took the kids to ABC.” 

[Jaybee]

17 minutes ago, Bambam said:

I don't know that I've ever done this (my kids are adults now), but I don't think I'd think anything if we were at a kid event - school, sport, bday party, etc. Now if we were somewhere the kids weren't, and I said this was My kid's dad, that would be weird, I think.  Introduction and defined relationship changes based on the event. 

((hugs)) as you try to navigate this. I cannot imagine how difficult this must be for you and your children. 

Yeah, this is how I'd see it. And in @wendyroo's post I'd say "kid's dad" and not think anything of it. I mean, it's possible in either scenario to mean that the parents aren't together, but doesn't necessarily mean that.

[kbutton]

4 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

He wants me to introduce him as “my husband”.  Which he technically is.  Of course he is also technically my children’s father.

If you do manage to please him in this aspect of things, he's going to blow up about something else.

I think he's not in a good place and might not be someone who will ever be pleased no matter how you handle it. At the same time, I would probably avoid introducing him in a way that could sound like he's just the baby daddy, if possible. However things are right now, they haven't always been that way (that I know of)--I get the impression that he was once a normal, loving dad. 

[rebcoola]

Your introduce was fine and you know it was.  He is mentally unstable and his reaction is because of that.  I hope the couple doesn't back out or you can find another solution for kiddo easily.  Hugs mama you are doing a really well handling incredible circumstances.

[TechWife]

12 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Well, that's a reasonable response, yes. You can decide you're done with this person and will now try to limit the damage. That's valid. 

But if there's still supposed to be any kind of relationship, then yes, I'd try to figure out where the other person was coming from. People aren't rational. 

Nope. I disagree. Most people are rational. The starting point for understanding is respect. This isn’t respect. The person blowing their lid is the one that needs to figure out what their problem is, because  no one is obligated to interact with anyone who is disrespectful of them. And no one is responsible for “figuring out” anyone else. 

[KidsHappen]

5 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

He wants me to introduce him as “my husband”.  Which he technically is.  

Honestly, all kidding or snark aside I think I would at a calm and and quite time explain to him that incidents like this significantly lowers the chance o that remaining so.

[TechWife]

13 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think for me, I'd feel really upset about this because this interchange embarrassed me in front of other people. 

I think I'd probably tell that to him to get that out. But then I'd try to figure out what it was he was reacting to. 

Don’t ever be embarrassed when you’re being mistreated. That’s what the other person wants. The calmer you seem, the better it is. They are the ones who should be embarrassed and when the person being yelled at is calm, the other person quickly looks ridiculous. 

[freesia]

6 hours ago, wendyroo said:

I have to deal with this exact issue today.

I am calling a woman I have never met to RSVP that Spencer will be attending her son's birthday party. DH will be accompanying him.

So I could tell her "Spencer will be coming with his dad" which sounds like we are divorced and his dad has custody that weekend.

Or I could tell her "Spencer will be coming with my husband" which sounds like he is Spencer's stepfather.

Yes, I have had this problem too. It happens the most at things like sports where the parents know the kids but not the parents. I always stumble when introducing him and end up with some version of, “This is dd’s father, my, uh, husband “.  When I’m telling a coach that her dad will pick her up, I just say dd’s father. When I talk to other parents I say, oh, I met Jordyn’s dad, so I don’t resume. 
 

Anyway, it’s all awkward and no matter what your relationship when the connection to a person is through your child, it feels natural to explain relationships that way. And it is never, ever, ever the appropriate response, OP, for him to melt down and yell at you about it, particularly in public. 

[DawnM]

And if it helps you to laugh at all, this is what my husband has done that just grates on my nerves.

Our 3rd son is Chinese.   He tells people "My first wife was Chinese."   He thinks it is hilarious because obviously the first two look like us.   I am his ONLY wife.

He has finally stopped but ARGH!

Edited October 14, 2022 by DawnM

[Catwoman]

My big concern here isn't about what made @Baseballandhockey's dh angry or whether or not he had a reason to be upset; my concern is that he seems to be becoming increasingly more volatile and unable to control his temper.

I hope BBH is documenting everything that happens, because I think it's time to speak with her attorney about the possibility of a restraining order. I am worried that, as he becomes more and more frustrated, things may escalate beyond yelling to physical attacks. 

 

[Terabith]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

My big concern here isn't about what made @Baseballandhockey's dh angry or whether or not he had a reason to be upset; my concern is that he seems to be becoming increasingly more volatile and unable to control his temper.

I hope BBH is documenting everything that happens, because I think it's time to speak with her attorney about the possibility of a restraining order. I am worried that, as he becomes more and more frustrated, things may escalate beyond yelling to physical attacks. 

 

The problem with a restraining order is he has to be allowed to see his kids, and she’s trying to provide supervision.  The other issue is that her entire support system and the people who are authorized to supervise visitation are his family.  
 

It just isn’t practical, even if it’s needed.  

[hshibley]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

My big concern here isn't about what made @Baseballandhockey's dh angry or whether or not he had a reason to be upset; my concern is that he seems to be becoming increasingly more volatile and unable to control his temper.

I hope BBH is documenting everything that happens, because I think it's time to speak with her attorney about the possibility of a restraining order. I am worried that, as he becomes more and more frustrated, things may escalate beyond yelling to physical attacks. 

 

This. Think about the amount of yelling and the body language that would be required before school officers would interfere. She needs to protect herself and her kids. 

[freesia]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

My big concern here isn't about what made @Baseballandhockey's dh angry or whether or not he had a reason to be upset; my concern is that he seems to be becoming increasingly more volatile and unable to control his temper.

I hope BBH is documenting everything that happens, because I think it's time to speak with her attorney about the possibility of a restraining order. I am worried that, as he becomes more and more frustrated, things may escalate beyond yelling to physical attacks. 

 

Yes, I agree. OP, you are so caring but in a way it seems you are trying to figure out if you were deserving of the response. The healthy response for him to have would have been to talk to you calmly afterwards and share how he felt and ask if you would refer to him as xyz in the future. 

[hshibley]

Just now, Terabith said:

The problem with a restraining order is he has to be allowed to see his kids, and she’s trying to provide supervision.  The other issue is that her entire support system and the people who are authorized to supervise visitation are his family.  
 

It just isn’t practical, even if it’s needed.  

Maybe she shouldn’t be the one providing supervision. If his family can be trusted work something out there. 
 

Also as much as she’s involved in his family it may be time to start finding her own support network and start having some separation from his family. 
 

This is a difficult situation and doesn’t seem to be trending in a good direction. 

[freesia]

5 minutes ago, hshibley said:

Maybe she shouldn’t be the one providing supervision. If his family can be trusted work something out there. 
 

Also as much as she’s involved in his family it may be time to start finding her own support network and start having some separation from his family. 
 

This is a difficult situation and doesn’t seem to be trending in a good direction. 

I get why she wants to be involved in the supervision bc she can’t trust his entire family. 
 

But, yes on the new support network. Hopefully moving away will help that. The situation is trending  badly. 

[Terabith]

Well, and if school security intervened, presumably this event took place at school, probably at a kid’s event.  Both parents kinda go to those.  It’s not fair to say she can’t go to her kid’s game or concert or conference or whatever because her husband will be there.  

[ktgrok]

it depends, I think?

I am positive I have referred to my husband as "his father" say when talking to a doctor about medical history or something. Or, I might say that DS "gets his eyes from his dad" or something. That kind of thing doesn't imply anything about my relationship with that person - it's just the focus is on the father/son relationship in that statement. 

on the other hand, if was introducing someing to another person, and I said, "Joan, this is DS12's father, JohnDoe." that WOULD to me imply that JohnDoe and I are not married. Doesn't mean we might not be dating, I suppose. Vs me introducing him as, "Joan, this is my husband, JohnDoe". 

So introduction wise, yeah, most of the time it would be awkward and "husband" would be used instead. BUT if talking about someone,or if the conversation is focused more on the kid, I can and do use "DS's father" and don't mean anything about the relationship. 

[prairiewindmomma]

2 hours ago, vonfirmath said:

See I'd say Spencer will be coming with his dad.

And not even think twice that the person might think we are divorced.

Sometimes his dad takes the kids. Sometimes I do. It's just how it goes.

 

Yup. If I am saying goodbye to my kids at an event and say to the coach, “Kid’s dad will be here for pickup”….I say that because that is the relevant relationship context. Kid’s dad is my husband.

Please talk to your attorney and get contemporary statements from security guards and/or video if it’s available if that’s recommended by your attorney. 

[ktgrok]

5 hours ago, skimomma said:

I have introduced by dh in that way.  It really just depends on the context.  As in, what is it most important for the audience to know, his relationship with me or with our dc?  

The bolded says what I was trying to say, but way more succinctly. 

3 hours ago, regentrude said:

If the context is kid related (school, kid activity),  I would not read it as a statement about the relationship. Now if someone introduced a person at a dinner party as their kid's parent, I would assume that they want to make the point that they're not a couple. But at a kid event? Totally normal. 

Agree. 

[Bambam]

43 minutes ago, DawnM said:

And if it helps you to laugh at all, this is what my husband has done that just grates on my nerves.

Our 3rd son is Chinese.   He tells people "My first wife was Chinese."   He thinks it is hilarious because obviously the first two look like us.   I am his ONLY wife.

He has finally stopped but ARGH!

This sounds like something my DH would do as well and think it hilarious. You have my sympathy. 

[prairiewindmomma]

If he goes off that easily on b&h, odds are he’s done that with the kids also. And, odds are it’s happened enough she is already gauging life carefully so that when she sees trigger points she’s making sure it’s aimed at her and not the kids and that’s part of her desire to be with her kids during his parenting time.

And, all of this just points to how really abusive he is. He may be abusive incidental to his mental illness but abusive behaviors are abusive behaviors.

Public abusive behaviors, with non family witnesses, tend to be especially relevant to judges.

Edited October 14, 2022 by prairiewindmomma

[freesia]

4 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

If he goes off that easily on b&h, odds are he’s done that with the kids also. And, odds are it’s happened enough she is already gauging life carefully so that when she sees trigger points she’s making sure it’s aimed at her and not the kids and that’s part of her desire to be with her kids during his parenting time.

And, all of this just points to how really abusive he is. He may be abusive incidental to his mental illness but abusive behaviors are abusive behaviors.

Public abusive behaviors, with non family witnesses, tend to be especially relevant to judges.

I am pretty sure that was the reason she moved out with the kids and got supervised visits 

[hshibley]

46 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Well, and if school security intervened, presumably this event took place at school, probably at a kid’s event.  Both parents kinda go to those.  It’s not fair to say she can’t go to her kid’s game or concert or conference or whatever because her husband will be there.  

No I’m saying work with her lawyer and courts to ban her husband 

[Harriet Vane]

9 minutes ago, hshibley said:

No I’m saying work with her lawyer and courts to ban her husband 

Banning him almost certainly not possible. Courts tend to protect parental rights. He would have to actually physically harm someone, and even then his access would only pause or be supervised. Courts tend to only remove access rights if there is a murder attempt. 

[Clarita]

7 hours ago, wendyroo said:

I have to deal with this exact issue today.

I am calling a woman I have never met to RSVP that Spencer will be attending her son's birthday party. DH will be accompanying him.

So I could tell her "Spencer will be coming with his dad" which sounds like we are divorced and his dad has custody that weekend.

Or I could tell her "Spencer will be coming with my husband" which sounds like he is Spencer's stepfather.

In this context where my child is the actual subject I hadn't even thought that me saying "Child is coming with his dad." is going to imply anything other than his dad is going to be bringing him instead of me. Nothing in this says anything about my relationship with my husband or my kid's male legal guardian.

[heartlikealion]

27 minutes ago, hshibley said:

No I’m saying work with her lawyer and courts to ban her husband 

 

15 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

Banning him almost certainly not possible. Courts tend to protect parental rights. He would have to actually physically harm someone, and even then his access would only pause or be supervised. Courts tend to only remove access rights if there is a murder attempt. 

Maybe it would be more like Dad can’t come within so many feet of Mom? He can witness child’s sport from afar or say hi to kids if Mom steps aside? 

I have no idea. Sounds difficult. 

[freesia]

2 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

 

Maybe it would be more like Dad can’t come within so many feet of Mom? He can witness child’s sport from afar or say hi to kids if Mom steps aside? 

I have no idea. Sounds difficult. 

Mom wants to be able to be close to monitor interactions with Dad. 

[heartlikealion]

Just now, freesia said:

Mom wants to be able to be close to monitor interactions with Dad. 

Right but are the grandparents at the event or the coach? Can Dad approach kids after the game while they grab their snack or is that too risky too? 

there has to be some give and take. He either doesn’t approach kids at all, only approaches with other adults, or approaches with Mom but maybe Mom stands near others so she feels safer 

[heartlikealion]

All this to say maybe Mom can’t be alone with him in parking lots etc. Dad says goodbyes on the field 

[freesia]

2 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Right but are the grandparents at the event or the coach? Can Dad approach kids after the game while they grab their snack or is that too risky too? 

there has to be some give and take. He either doesn’t approach kids at all, only approaches with other adults, or approaches with Mom but maybe Mom stands near others so she feels safer 

I believe she wants to be with them when they attend church with dad or have dinner at relative's homes. If he couldn't be within a certain amount of feet of her, she couldn't monitor the situation to keep her kids safe.

[Rosie_0801]

Unless you've been dragged through the family court, you have no idea how little right you have to protect your children from their other parent.

You certainly can't cut him off because he yelled at you in a car park.

[heartlikealion]

5 minutes ago, freesia said:

I believe she wants to be with them when they attend church with dad or have dinner at relative's homes. If he couldn't be within a certain amount of feet of her, she couldn't monitor the situation to keep her kids safe.

Ok I didn’t know about that. But that’s a “safe place” because of the other adults. I’m saying maybe they need to limit “no other adults close” scenarios. The adults in parking lot were just nearby not with them. So she can make her own boundary (even if court won’t enforce it). 

“I will not be alone with you. If you need to talk privately send me a text/email.” 

[Terabith]

3 minutes ago, heartlikealion said:

Ok I didn’t know about that. But that’s a “safe place” because of the other adults. I’m saying maybe they need to limit “no other adults close” scenarios. The adults in parking lot were just nearby not with them. So she can make her own boundary (even if court won’t enforce it). 

“I will not be alone with you. If you need to talk privately send me a text/email.” 

But that risks riling him up.  She’s in a very difficult situation.  She’s trying to set boundaries but also not make him angry.  She’s walking a tightrope blindfolded backwards as it goes through fire and a field of swords.  Really, I think she’s doing an amazing job in a literally impossible situation.

ETA:  Not riling him up makes it less likely that he’ll go to court to make demands like unsupervised visitation, that he probably would win.  Placating him is an attempt to keep her kids safe.  

Edited October 14, 2022 by Terabith

[freesia]

1 minute ago, Terabith said:

But that risks riling him up.  She’s in a very difficult situation.  She’s trying to set boundaries but also not make him angry.  She’s walking a tightrope blindfolded backwards as it goes through fire and a field of swords.  Really, I think she’s doing an amazing job in a literally impossible situation.

I agree totally.

[heartlikealion]

Just now, Terabith said:

But that risks riling him up.  She’s in a very difficult situation.  She’s trying to set boundaries but also not make him angry.  She’s walking a tightrope blindfolded backwards as it goes through fire and a field of swords.  Really, I think she’s doing an amazing job in a literally impossible situation.

I think she has to be proactive if she’s worried about being cornered in a parking lot, etc in the future. That’s her call.