Is there good research on covid vaccines negatively affecting fertility?

[ScoutTN]

Dh came home from a routine medical appointment yesterday repeating a bunch of stuff his doctor told him about this. I trust y’all more than my own internet research skills or scientific understanding. (Science is so not my thing. Humanities girl here.)

What does the Hive think? 

[Katy]

To the contrary, it seems to increase fertility in those with autoimmune issues and makes no difference whatsoever in others. The questions come from the vaccine apparently delaying a few women’s periods. But literally anything that affects hormones (fighting a virus so mild you have no symptoms, stress, changing amounts of dietary fat, changing amounts of dietary fiber, changing the amounts of dietary estrogens like soy, seasonal allergies or even eating more or less histamine than typical) can do the same thing.

[Katy]

There are thousands of anecdotal reports of women with unexplained infertility spontaneously conceiving & carrying a baby to term after getting the vaccine. Mama Dr Jones did a whole thing on this more than a year ago. Her point wasn’t that it increases fertility so much that you can collect anecdotes that support anything you want, so you need to look at actual data, not anecdotes. 

[KSera]

I concur with Katy. While nothing  I’ve seen studying fertility in people vaccinated against Covid shows any negative effect on it, studies have shown covid disease itself decreasing fertility (in men as well—sperm production is affected by Covid illness). A study confirming that some women experience a temporary change in their menstrual cycle (ie an additional day of bleeding, an earlier period, spotting) came out this week, so maybe she was thinking of that. It seems like some people conflate that with meaning it has a negative impact on fertility. 

[KSera]

I just saw this document that covers this topic and updates with research linked in a YLE post. It’s a constantly updated document from a lecturer in Reproductive Immunology at Imperial College of London:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_wHIYX-tGkGBPwuax7N8BxZPR4PTTCDm/view

(TL;DR: The Covid vaccine does not negatively impact fertility, yet not being vaccinated is associated with increased risks in pregnancy and for newborns)

[wathe]

"TL;DR: The Covid vaccine does not negatively impact fertility, yet not being vaccinated is associated with increased risks in pregnancy and for newborns" matches my understanding.

I have not seen any convincing evidence to support the hypothesis that covid vaccine impairs fertility.  There is, in fact,  plenty of evidence now to suggest that it doesn't.   And also some evidence to support that covid itself may impair fertility.

The link that @KSeraposted is comprehensive. 

CDC has a page shorter page with links to key studies

JAMA article on covid vaccine and fertility misinformation

[Happy2BaMom]

I don't have any research links to add here, but I think it's fair/appropriate for your husband/you to ask the doctor for the studies/research s/he is relying on to make such a substantial claim.

And those studies should be ones you can access and view yourselves. Otherwise, they're not valid. No 'snapshots'/screenshots/'so-and-so-found'/anecdotal stories/etc. Studies *you* can access and read.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Happy2BaMom

[Ann.without.an.e]

I'd assume it is neutral? DD has PCOS and was told she may never have kids. She was vaccinated and even had a terrible allergic reaction to the vaccine (she had the bad J&J batch) and she is now pregnant with twins without fertility treatments. This is the only data I have lol 

[ScoutTN]

13 minutes ago, Happy2BaMom said:

I don't have any research links to add here, but I think it's fair/appropriate for your husband/you to ask the doctor for the studies/research s/he is relying on to make such a substantial claim.

And those studies should be ones you can access and view yourselves. Otherwise, they're not valid. No 'snapshots'/screenshots/'so-and-so-found'/anecdotal stories/etc. Studies *you* can access and read.

Exactly what I told Dh. None of this, “Lots of studies show…”, blather. I want evidence, not hype. 

The doc seemed particularly concerned about the mRNA vaxes, less so about novovax.  

[madteaparty]

This Board is overwhelmingly vaccine-positive, FYI. I haven’t researched fertility (and won’t vaccinate my young daughter in any event) but there are many cases of menstrual cycle disruptions due to vaccine, and not minor ones like mentioned upthread. Like months and months of no period. It doesn’t really serve the cause to be dismissive of real things that are happening to people.’usually if there’s no “evidence” of something it’s because it wasn’t in anyone’s interest to pay for the research. 
i wish novavax had been available when my family took our vaccines…

Edited September 30, 2022 by madteaparty

[desertflower]

From the Board Rules:

• Respect Medical Science

Vaccines have been preventing unnecessary death since 1796. While we are 100% supportive of a parent's right to choose medical care for their children, we are not open to hosting, on this site, misinformation about the dangers that vaccines may cause to the human race, considering that, for 300 years, they have prevented hordes of people from dying. 

[Lawyer&Mom]

Let me get on my soap box for a moment, because this has been frustrating me all week:  Yes, the vaccine disrupts menstrual cycles.  BUT SO DOES COVID!!!  (I’ve personally experienced *both*)  And COVID does a bunch of other nasty things as well…  Get vaccinated!  

[desertflower]

My cousin (missionary) had the J&J vaccine (about a year ago) because it was the quickest for her, so she could go back to Guatemala.  She's on her third pregnancy.  Due date is in October. 

I'm not saying she got pregnant because of the vaccine since it's evidence she had no trouble getting pregnant prior to the vaccine.  But she apparently had no problems getting pregnant after being vaccinated. 

My menstral cycle was affected the first month after the first series of vaccine. 

[Tanaqui]

Oh, man, if I thought that the covid vax could stop my period for "months and months", believe me, I'd be getting a new booster every other week!

However, the comprehensive study on the subject shows that the average length of increase in the mensrual cycle is, perhaps, a single day.

Probably not worth it, even if it stacks.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/study-confirms-link-between-covid-19-vaccination-temporary-increase-menstrual-cycle-length

[mommyoffive]

12 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Oh, man, if I thought that the covid vax could stop my period for "months and months", believe me, I'd be getting a new booster every other week!

However, the comprehensive study on the subject shows that the average length of increase in the mensrual cycle is, perhaps, a single day.

Probably not worth it, even if it stacks.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/study-confirms-link-between-covid-19-vaccination-temporary-increase-menstrual-cycle-length

Exactly what I was going to post.  

I have noticed zero effects on my cycle.  And I have read the 1 day thing and ok well then?  I mean my cycle will vary in normal times anyhow so 1 day isn't anything to write home about.

[Faith-manor]

13 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Oh, man, if I thought that the covid vax could stop my period for "months and months", believe me, I'd be getting a new booster every other week!

However, the comprehensive study on the subject shows that the average length of increase in the mensrual cycle is, perhaps, a single day.

Probably not worth it, even if it stacks.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/study-confirms-link-between-covid-19-vaccination-temporary-increase-menstrual-cycle-length

You and me both! Like I would sign up all.the.time. and lie like a dog to get more boosters! Thankfully, it appears that my stupid ovaries have finally gotten the message that my uterus is never going to be rented out ever again, and has decided to maybe just maybe STOP being the two little jerks they are!

[Tanaqui]

1 minute ago, mommyoffive said:

Exactly what I was going to post.  

I have noticed zero effects on my cycle.  And I have read the 1 day thing and ok well then?  I mean my cycle will vary in normal times anyhow so 1 day isn't anything to write home about.

Likewise, but to be fair, your anecdote and my anecdote still don't make "data", no more than two anecdotes about people missing a ton of periods would.

People tend to remember anecdotes, especially those they *want* to remember, either because they're unusual and interesting or because they reinforce what they already want to believe. The only way to short-circuit this process is to relentlessly crunch the numbers, or, anyway, to get somebody else to relentlessly crush the numbers and tell us the results.

[Happy2BaMom]

1 hour ago, madteaparty said:

This Board is overwhelmingly vaccine-positive, FYI. I haven’t researched fertility (and won’t vaccinate my young daughter in any event) but there are many cases of menstrual cycle disruptions due to vaccine, and not minor ones like mentioned upthread. Like months and months of no period. It doesn’t really serve the cause to be dismissive of real things that are happening to people.’usually if there’s no “evidence” of something it’s because it wasn’t in anyone’s interest to pay for the research. 
i wish novavax had been available when my family took our vaccines…

This Board is overwhelming hard-nosed about providing data (that can be independently accessed, if not actually verified) to back up the sweeping claims (usually based on nothing more than anecdotes & SM posts) that people like to toss around like popcorn on hot-topic issues.

The NIH awarded grants to begin research on this topic back in August of 2021, not even six months after the vaccines *began* to be offered to the general public, so stop with the claim that anyone was "dismissive of real things that are happening to real people". That was the entire point of the research, conducted by five different institutions, over many months, collecting data on tens of thousands of women.

A lack of evidence is also often just a lack of evidence. The fact that the studies didn't find the conclusion you believe they should have does not invalidate the research that was done.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Happy2BaMom

[madteaparty]

55 minutes ago, Happy2BaMom said:

This Board is overwhelming hard-nosed about providing data (that can be independently accessed, if not actually verified) to back up the sweeping claims (usually based on nothing more than anecdotes & SM posts) that people like to toss around like popcorn on hot-topic issues

 The placement of this post right under a handful of anecdotes is amusing 🙂 

[Tanaqui]

18 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

 The placement of this post right under a handful of anecdotes is amusing 🙂 

I only see two anecdotes, and that's if I really stretch the definition of "anecdote". The other posts are firmly on the side of "data, not anecdata".

But it does sometimes happen that I read quickly and miss information. Can you provide a link to any posts on this thread which you consider part of the "handful of anecdotes"?

Edited September 30, 2022 by Tanaqui

[Elizabeth86]

I had the vaccine and I am 36 and got pregnant the very first month I tried, so that’s all I know. lol Nothing scientific as I am just one person, but that was my experience. lol

[kiwik]

4 hours ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I'd assume it is neutral? DD has PCOS and was told she may never have kids. She was vaccinated and even had a terrible allergic reaction to the vaccine (she had the bad J&J batch) and she is now pregnant with twins without fertility treatments. This is the only data I have lol 

Congratulations.

[TCB]

7 hours ago, madteaparty said:

This Board is overwhelmingly vaccine-positive, FYI. I haven’t researched fertility (and won’t vaccinate my young daughter in any event) but there are many cases of menstrual cycle disruptions due to vaccine, and not minor ones like mentioned upthread. Like months and months of no period. It doesn’t really serve the cause to be dismissive of real things that are happening to people.’usually if there’s no “evidence” of something it’s because it wasn’t in anyone’s interest to pay for the research. 
i wish novavax had been available when my family took our vaccines…

Could you link the evidence for the ‘months and months of no periods’ so we can look at it?

[Farrar]

The vaccine definitely disrupts menstrual cycles. There's been a study. WaPo had an article about it less than a week ago. I pulled a few key passages below.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2022/09/27/covid-vaccine-period-late/

Quote

A study of nearly 20,000 people around the world shows that getting vaccinated against covid can change the timing of the menstrual cycle. Vaccinated people experienced, on average, about a one-day delay in getting their periods, compared with those who hadn’t been vaccinated.

Quote

Edelman said preliminary findings from a different study suggest that getting a coronavirus vaccine sometimes may cause heavier periods. The data, collected from nearly 10,000 people, is still undergoing peer review, but it showed that getting vaccinated increased slightly the probability of having heavier bleeding.

 

However, she acknowledged that her studies have looked only at people with normal menstrual cycles who aren’t using hormonal contraceptives, and that individual experiences may vary widely.

 

Caiityya Pillai, 21, who lives in Berkeley, Calif., said that for two months after her March 2021 shot, her normally light period became extremely painful and lasted twice as long.

“The pain wasn’t like a normal pain. It was to the point where I was crying and could not get out of bed,” she said.

Pillai said that she was overwhelmed with anxiety and thought something else might be wrong, but that after two cycles, her period returned to normal. When she got a second dose in July 2021, her period worsened again, but she said she felt calmer about it because she had seen similar stories being shared online.

 

Other research has suggested that the vaccines have a variety of effects on periods. A survey published last fall collected information about periods and vaccines from 160,000 people — including transgender and postmenopausal people — and found that thousands reported heavier bleeding than usual or breakthrough bleeding.

Quote

The National Institutes of Health has funded at least four other research projects around coronavirus vaccines and menstruation — some of which look at adolescents and people with endometriosis — with the hope of providing better information and increasing public trust in the vaccines.

 

[Farrar]

Like others quoted in the full story, I have zero regrets about having gotten the shots or the boosters. But it may be the cause of the bizarre cycles I've been having. My period was almost two months late. Then, a couple of cycles later, it lasted more than two months straight. Peri-menopause or Covid? PCOS? Who the heck knows. But the timing is certainly odd and in line with what others are seeing that does seem to have a link to Covid and the vaccine.

As for fertility... I have seen absolutely zero about that outside of fearmongering. I've seen no serious anecdotes suggesting it wrecks fertility and no studies suggesting it. Just because it's affecting menstrual cycles doesn't mean that it has a negative impact on fertility.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Farrar

[ktgrok]

Wait, it delays your period in some people? LOL, I thought it was the opposite, as I got mine a few days early after my first shot! No change at all with my second or my booster. 

[madteaparty]

2 hours ago, TCB said:

Could you link the evidence for the ‘months and months of no periods’ so we can look at it?

I’m going to decline this amazing opportunity. I’ve seen this movie play before: one posts a study that the consensus doesn’t agree with, holes are poked because, reasons. Here we have a thread that starts with a medical doctor’s views expressed in a professional setting, but we will listen to the internet instead. 🤷‍♀️

[Corraleno]

6 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

I’m going to decline this amazing opportunity. I’ve seen this movie play before: one posts a study that the consensus doesn’t agree with, holes are poked because, reasons. Here we have a thread that starts with a medical doctor’s views expressed in a professional setting, but we will listen to the internet instead. 🤷‍♀️

Dismissing a request for links to actual scientific studies as "listening to the internet" while framing a 3rd hand report of what one doctor may have claimed as "a medical doctor's views expressed in a professional setting," as if a third-hand report carries more weight than actual peer-reviewed research, is certainly an interesting take — especially since "X posted that Y said that Z told him he believes blah blah bah" is pretty much the definition of "listening to the internet."

[Tanaqui]

23 minutes ago, madteaparty said:

I’m going to decline this amazing opportunity. I’ve seen this movie play before: one posts a study that the consensus doesn’t agree with, holes are poked because, reasons. Here we have a thread that starts with a medical doctor’s views expressed in a professional setting, but we will listen to the internet instead. 🤷‍♀️

 

Okay, well then, can you at least clarify which comments on this thread, posted BEFORE you made your comment about anecdotes, you consider purely anecdotal? Because that comment read to me like you were saying that this thread was just a flood of anecdotes and no science, and honestly, I find that sort of mendacious rhetoric to be really irritating.

[desertflower]

6 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 

Okay, well then, can you at least clarify which comments on this thread, posted BEFORE you made your comment about anecdotes, you consider purely anecdotal? Because that comment read to me like you were saying that this thread was just a flood of anecdotes and no science, and honestly, I find that sort of mendacious rhetoric to be really irritating.

She might have meant my post was anecdotal.  But I thought that was what the op wanted because she stated she didn't want links to studies or at least that is how I read it.  I could have misread the post. 

[Corraleno]

The myth that covid vaccines cause infertility goes back to an antivax conspiracy from late 2020/early 2021 that claimed the mRNA vaccines train the immune system to attack a specific protein, syncytin-1, that is necessary for placental formation, therefore vaccinated women will no longer be able to carry a baby since their bodies will attack and destroy the placenta. This was a widespread myth at the same time as the whole "shedding" thing — remember all the nutters who didn't want their kids to be around anyone who got vaccinated, so they wouldn't "catch" the shed spike protein and become infertile?

Reuters provided a good summary of why there is absolutely no basis to this:

"The claims that these mRNA vaccines will cause the immune system to attack syncytin-1 are unfounded. Syncytin-1 is not contained in the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein and the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein and syncytin-1 are not very similar. Pfizer spokesperson Dervila Keane confirmed to Reuters by email previous reports (here) that the protein targeted by their vaccine only shared a sequence of four amino acids with syncytin-1, which is too short to cause autoimmunity problems. Syncytin-1 is made up of 538 amino acids (here).

“Given that there are only 20 different types of amino acid, it isn’t surprising that many, many proteins share similarities”, wrote Catherine Thornton, a Professor of Human Immunology at Swansea University (here) and April Rees, a PhD Researcher in Immunology at Swansea University in an article on the topic for The Conversation publication (here). Numerous experts have confirmed that there are few similarities between the COVID-19 spike protein and syncytin-1 and that these were not significant enough for the immune system to be confused between the two (here and here and here and here and here)."

I'm not going to embed all the links, but the links to studies and reports are in the original article here: 
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-syncytin/fact-check-available-mrna-vaccines-do-not-target-syncytin-1-a-protein-vital-to-successful-pregnancies-idUSKBN2A42S7

[Frances]

10 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

Oh, man, if I thought that the covid vax could stop my period for "months and months", believe me, I'd be getting a new booster every other week!

However, the comprehensive study on the subject shows that the average length of increase in the mensrual cycle is, perhaps, a single day.

Probably not worth it, even if it stacks.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/study-confirms-link-between-covid-19-vaccination-temporary-increase-menstrual-cycle-length

Hormonal IUD would likely do the trick for you. I had no periods for 20 years. It was absolutely amazing.

[Laura Corin]

57 minutes ago, Frances said:

Hormonal IUD would likely do the trick for you. I had no periods for 20 years. It was absolutely amazing.

Yes. I had one from age 37 until after menopause. 

[maize]

I think I have read there is a slight increase in miscarriage related to the covid vaccine. The same has been found with some flu vaccines. I believe there is also an increased miscarriage rate associated with covid infection.

That's the kind of thing that only studies involving large numbers of people can determine though; anecdote really means nothing. I remember thinking about this when I had an early miscarriage the same week I got my very first Pfizer shot. Had the miscarriage started maybe five days later, I would have wondered if it were caused by the shot. As happened, the miscarriage occured before the shot so was clearly not caused by it.

[Corraleno]

Nope, there is no increased risk of miscarriage related to the vaccine, and there have been studies with thousands of people. Below is an excerpt from this page, which was linked upthread by KSera, and which contains links to all the studies referenced:

27 studies that actively track the outcomes after pregnancy have also been done, across eight countries and 316,470 people vaccinated during pregnancy. None of these studies have found any increased risk of miscarriage, preterm birth, stillbirth or babies being born smaller than expected, or with congenital abnormalities, following COVID vaccination. A meta-analysis taking in many of these studies, published in May 2022, found that COVID vaccination actually reduces the rate of stillbirth by 15%, presumably because it prevents stillbirths that occur because of COVID infection.

Registry studies recruit people at vaccination, track the outcomes of their pregnancies and compare the outcomes to those we normally see in pregnancy. In the USA, the V-safe pregnancy registry has examined the outcomes for 5,096 people vaccinated in pregnancy and their babies. The first report from V-safe found that, among 713 people vaccinated in pregnancy who had given birth by 30th March 2021, the rates of adverse events were the same as we normally see. A follow up study looking at outcomes of people vaccinated before 20 weeks of pregnancy found no increased risk of miscarriage following vaccination. A second follow up looking at 1634 births up to 13th September 2021 found that the rates of adverse events at birth remained normal.

The BORN Ontario registry comprises 64,234 people vaccinated during pregnancy in Ontario, Canada. Among the 43,099 who have already given birth, there was no increased risk of stillbirth, preterm birth or babies being smaller than expected for their gestational age.

A study looking at 18,399 people vaccinated against COVID during pregnancy in Scotland found no increased risk of stillbirth, babies dying shortly after birth, or preterm birth following vaccination. The Swiss COVI-PREG registry followed 1012 people vaccinated during pregnancy and found no increased risk of miscarriage, preterm birth, stillbirth, or babies needing intensive care or dying.

Two small registry studies, of 390 people vaccinated during pregnancy in Israel and 242 people vaccinated during pregnancy in the USA found no increased risk of miscarriage, preterm birth, babies being born smaller than expected or with congenital abnormalities, or needing intensive care.

Case-control studies identify people who experienced a certain adverse event and determine whether these people are more likely to have been vaccinated than those who did not experience the event. Two such studies have been done using 105,446 pregnancies (of which 31,080 had been vaccinated) in the USA’s Vaccine Safety Datalink system. One of these found no concerning patterns linking COVID vaccination to stillbirth; the other found that people who experienced a miscarriage were no more likely to have received a COVID vaccine in the 28 days before they miscarried than those who did not miscarry.

A case-control study looking at 18,950 pregnancies in Norway also found that people who experienced a miscarriage were no more likely to have received a COVID vaccine in the previous three or five weeks, that those who did not miscarry.

Fourteen cohort studies compared the outcomes for people who were vaccinated, compared to those who were unvaccinated. All of these found no increased risk of adverse outcomes associated with vaccination and three (UKHSA, Hui and Piekos) found evidence that vaccination reduces the risk of stillbirth and preterm birth. Two studies looking at miscarriage rates found no increased risk of miscarriage associated with vaccination (Goldshtein and Sadarangani). One study that looked specifically at congenital abnormalities following vaccination in the first trimester found that these were no more likely to occur than in unvaccinated people, or those who received the vaccine after the first trimester.

[LauraClark]

I got pregnant 6 months after being vaccinated. My obgyn recommended not trying for the first 3 months after getting the vaccine, but that was early on so I'm not sure if the recommendation has changed on that. When I was looking at it over a year ago I came to the conclusion that getting the vaccine didn't affect fertility (some of the people in the original trial got pregnant and had normal births) but that I probably didn't want to get the vaccine while I was pregnant (there were some miscarriages reported). Not sure if that has changed since then, though.

[Farrar]

8 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Wait, it delays your period in some people? LOL, I thought it was the opposite, as I got mine a few days early after my first shot! No change at all with my second or my booster. 

There are early studies that indicate BOTH of those things are true - that it delays periods by an average of a day (which, of course, means that some people are getting no delay and others are getting a pretty big one) and that it causes heavier bleeding in the first period after getting it and possibly in the first few periods. These are large scale studies using self-reported data from random samples. The one about the delay used anonymized data from a tracker app.

[Farrar]

8 hours ago, madteaparty said:

I’m going to decline this amazing opportunity. I’ve seen this movie play before: one posts a study that the consensus doesn’t agree with, holes are poked because, reasons. Here we have a thread that starts with a medical doctor’s views expressed in a professional setting, but we will listen to the internet instead. 🤷‍♀️

A thirdhand telephone game of a random doctor's opinion is not more valuable to me than a published study or an article in a reputable publication quoting expert doctors specifically working the area being discussed. 

I answered this one for you though with the WaPo article I linked which discussed the study about delayed and missed periods.

Some of the ways that people are framing this on both ends are really rubbing me the wrong way in this thread. I have seen zero evidence (my husband's doctor told him and he told me and I told the internet doesn't count) that fertility is affected. In fact, there have been studies that have shown it does not seem to be. And the first reports about fertility being affected didn't come from a large body of anecdotes or from doctors - they can be traced back to anti-vax conspiracy theories that circulated online. However, there IS a growing body of evidence, including multiple studies, that the vaccine does affect menstrual cycles, so it's not crazy to ask this question. It's offensive that it wasn't asked from the get go. It's offensive that "how might this affect fertility and menstrual cycles" isn't a core question for any wide scale medicine or study in the first place. And the dismissive attitudes about it displayed in this thread are exactly the reason that women stop trusting their doctors, stop trusting medical science, and sometimes even end up dying. I know I'm not the only person here who has had a doctor say to them point blank, "you're lying, you're not experiencing the pain/symptoms you say you're experiencing."

[Hyacinth]

26 minutes ago, Farrar said:

A thirdhand telephone game of a random doctor's opinion is not more valuable to me than a published study or an article in a reputable publication quoting expert doctors specifically working the area being discussed. 

I answered this one for you though with the WaPo article I linked which discussed the study about delayed and missed periods.

Some of the ways that people are framing this on both ends are really rubbing me the wrong way in this thread. I have seen zero evidence (my husband's doctor told him and he told me and I told the internet doesn't count) that fertility is affected. In fact, there have been studies that have shown it does not seem to be. And the first reports about fertility being affected didn't come from a large body of anecdotes or from doctors - they can be traced back to anti-vax conspiracy theories that circulated online. However, there IS a growing body of evidence, including multiple studies, that the vaccine does affect menstrual cycles, so it's not crazy to ask this question. It's offensive that it wasn't asked from the get go. It's offensive that "how might this affect fertility and menstrual cycles" isn't a core question for any wide scale medicine or study in the first place. And the dismissive attitudes about it displayed in this thread are exactly the reason that women stop trusting their doctors, stop trusting medical science, and sometimes even end up dying. I know I'm not the only person here who has had a doctor say to them point blank, "you're lying, you're not experiencing the pain/symptoms you say you're experiencing."

Thank you, Farrar. 
Not every question is an attempt at “misinformation” and not every voiced doubt is the result of conspiracy. 

[Starr]

Our anecdotal story. My dd's friend that had the most changes in her period post vaccination is about to have a baby.

[Pam in CT]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

A thirdhand telephone game of a random doctor's opinion is not more valuable to me than a published study or an article in a reputable publication quoting expert doctors specifically working the area being discussed. 

I answered this one for you though with the WaPo article I linked which discussed the study about delayed and missed periods.

Some of the ways that people are framing this on both ends are really rubbing me the wrong way in this thread. I have seen zero evidence (my husband's doctor told him and he told me and I told the internet doesn't count) that fertility is affected. In fact, there have been studies that have shown it does not seem to be. And the first reports about fertility being affected didn't come from a large body of anecdotes or from doctors - they can be traced back to anti-vax conspiracy theories that circulated online. However, there IS a growing body of evidence, including multiple studies, that the vaccine does affect menstrual cycles, so it's not crazy to ask this question. It's offensive that it wasn't asked from the get go. It's offensive that "how might this affect fertility and menstrual cycles" isn't a core question for any wide scale medicine or study in the first place. And the dismissive attitudes about it displayed in this thread are exactly the reason that women stop trusting their doctors, stop trusting medical science, and sometimes even end up dying. I know I'm not the only person here who has had a doctor say to them point blank, "you're lying, you're not experiencing the pain/symptoms you say you're experiencing."

 

1 hour ago, Hyacinth said:

Thank you, Farrar. 
Not every question is an attempt at “misinformation” and not every voiced doubt is the result of conspiracy. 

 

And, it's extremely helpful to differentiate between "evidence/lack thereof that the vaccine disrupts menstrual cycles" and "evidence/ lack thereof that the vaccine affects fertility."

The two are NOT the same.  It is important to clarify which of the two a given study is looking at.

 

I think there is a fair amount of evidence that many men do not have the faintest clue that there's a difference.  Even men acting in good faith.  And there's also evidence that not all men act in good faith when it comes to matters of women's health and reproductive capacity.

Edited October 1, 2022 by Pam in CT
omitted words

[bluemongoose]

....

Edited October 2, 2022 by bluemongoose

[ScoutTN]

12 hours ago, madteaparty said:

I’m going to decline this amazing opportunity. I’ve seen this movie play before: one posts a study that the consensus doesn’t agree with, holes are poked because, reasons. Here we have a thread that starts with a medical doctor’s views expressed in a professional setting, but we will listen to the internet instead. 🤷‍♀️

The medical doctor in question did not give any actual hard data or refer to any specific studies; hence my original question. Having an M.D. degree does not make one an authority on all scientific issues. I did ask Dh to email the doc for links and references to well done studies. 

[ScoutTN]

12 hours ago, desertflower said:

She might have meant my post was anecdotal.  But I thought that was what the op wanted because she stated she didn't want links to studies or at least that is how I read it.  I could have misread the post. 

I think you did misread. I specifically asked for studies bc the doctor did not provide kinks or give specific data. 

[ScoutTN]

Thanks to all who have linked helpful articles and studies! This is exactly what I wanted. 

[desertflower]

1 hour ago, ScoutTN said:

I think you did misread. I specifically asked for studies bc the doctor did not provide kinks or give specific data. 

Sorry! 

[ScoutTN]

1 hour ago, desertflower said:

Sorry! 

No worries! Just clarifying. Likely my post was unclear. 

[desertflower]

1 hour ago, ScoutTN said:

No worries! Just clarifying. Likely my post was unclear. 

My fault. What you want makes more sense now. 😂.   

[Corraleno]

5 hours ago, Farrar said:

A thirdhand telephone game of a random doctor's opinion is not more valuable to me than a published study or an article in a reputable publication quoting expert doctors specifically working the area being discussed. 

I answered this one for you though with the WaPo article I linked which discussed the study about delayed and missed periods.

Some of the ways that people are framing this on both ends are really rubbing me the wrong way in this thread. I have seen zero evidence (my husband's doctor told him and he told me and I told the internet doesn't count) that fertility is affected. In fact, there have been studies that have shown it does not seem to be. And the first reports about fertility being affected didn't come from a large body of anecdotes or from doctors - they can be traced back to anti-vax conspiracy theories that circulated online. However, there IS a growing body of evidence, including multiple studies, that the vaccine does affect menstrual cycles, so it's not crazy to ask this question. It's offensive that it wasn't asked from the get go. It's offensive that "how might this affect fertility and menstrual cycles" isn't a core question for any wide scale medicine or study in the first place. And the dismissive attitudes about it displayed in this thread are exactly the reason that women stop trusting their doctors, stop trusting medical science, and sometimes even end up dying. I know I'm not the only person here who has had a doctor say to them point blank, "you're lying, you're not experiencing the pain/symptoms you say you're experiencing."

I agree with everything in your post except the bolded. Asking for references is not "dismissive," and a few people jokingly wishing the vaccine had delayed their cycle by several months has absolutely nothing to do with women not trusting doctors or medical science. I've had plenty of rude and dismissive doctors in my life — none of them ever said "Do you have some references for that, I'd like to read more about it."

If someone posts that there are "many cases" of Supplement X preventing covid, who here going to accept that at face value and not ask for links? How many people would accept "well I know several people who took Supplement X and never got covid" as proof of efficacy? When someone posts that mRNA vaccines cause "months and months of no period," it's not dismissive to ask for studies and not just anecdotes, especially for a claim that contradicts current studies indicating that the effect is generally mild and temporary. The problem with anecdotes is that there's no adjustment for confounding factors and no control group for comparison. For example, skipped cycles, extremely short cycles, long periods of heavy bleeding that last weeks or even months, etc., are characteristic of perimenopause, totally separate from any vaccine issues. What are the odds that a 50 yr old woman who gets two vaccines and a booster within a 12 month period will experience significant menstrual irregularities shortly after at least one of those three shots? More importantly, how much higher are those odds compared to a demographically-matched unvaccinated woman? 

Menstrual irregularities can be caused by pretty much anything that affects hormones, including stress, diet, weight loss, travel, lack of sleep, illness, conditions like PCOS or fibroids, etc. To me, the fact that one possible side effect of covid vaccines may be a temporary change in menstrual cycles, with no effect on fertility or overall health, is not any scarier or more dangerous than a sore arm, low-grade fever, or fatigue. Unfortunately, antivax groups frequently cite this particular side effect as proof that mRNA vaccines cause long-term damage, including "changing your DNA," causing infertility, etc. There is no absolutely no evidence for that, and plenty of evidence refuting it — and a UK study found that recipients of Astra Zeneca were just as likely to experience irregularities as those who had Pfizer, so it's clearly not an mRNA thing.

 

[Farrar]

4 hours ago, Corraleno said:

I agree with everything in your post except the bolded. Asking for references is not "dismissive," and a few people jokingly wishing the vaccine had delayed their cycle by several months has absolutely nothing to do with women not trusting doctors or medical science. I've had plenty of rude and dismissive doctors in my life — none of them ever said "Do you have some references for that, I'd like to read more about it."

If someone posts that there are "many cases" of Supplement X preventing covid, who here going to accept that at face value and not ask for links? How many people would accept "well I know several people who took Supplement X and never got covid" as proof of efficacy? When someone posts that mRNA vaccines cause "months and months of no period," it's not dismissive to ask for studies and not just anecdotes, especially for a claim that contradicts current studies indicating that the effect is generally mild and temporary. The problem with anecdotes is that there's no adjustment for confounding factors and no control group for comparison. For example, skipped cycles, extremely short cycles, long periods of heavy bleeding that last weeks or even months, etc., are characteristic of perimenopause, totally separate from any vaccine issues. What are the odds that a 50 yr old woman who gets two vaccines and a booster within a 12 month period will experience significant menstrual irregularities shortly after at least one of those three shots? More importantly, how much higher are those odds compared to a demographically-matched unvaccinated woman? 

Menstrual irregularities can be caused by pretty much anything that affects hormones, including stress, diet, weight loss, travel, lack of sleep, illness, conditions like PCOS or fibroids, etc. To me, the fact that one possible side effect of covid vaccines may be a temporary change in menstrual cycles, with no effect on fertility or overall health, is not any scarier or more dangerous than a sore arm, low-grade fever, or fatigue. Unfortunately, antivax groups frequently cite this particular side effect as proof that mRNA vaccines cause long-term damage, including "changing your DNA," causing infertility, etc. There is no absolutely no evidence for that, and plenty of evidence refuting it — and a UK study found that recipients of Astra Zeneca were just as likely to experience irregularities as those who had Pfizer, so it's clearly not an mRNA thing.

 

One, I don't think we're talking about the same thing here. I agree that there should be references. I provided a reference for that reason. Some people who are clearly vaccine skeptical were saying really dismissive things and some people who are clearly pro vaccine were saying really dismissive things about the menstrual irregularities. 

But two, I don't really need a mansplain about why menstrual irregularities and fertility aren't the same thing. I'm not the one who tossed that into the conversation (and as someone else said, I suspect the doctor in the OP might actually need this pointed out, sadly), but since it was there, I followed up on it up as well. I also don't really need an explanation about why we need studies about this and anecdotal evidence from a bunch of women who are in range to experience menstrual irregularities isn't great. Because duh. But every single serious study conducted so far seems to have pointed toward the idea that there ARE menstrual irregularities. But that's why I linked an article from a reputable publication about the actual studies. And it's great that you think menstrual irregularities aren't any bigger of a deal than having a sore arm for a few days, but try having your worst period ever for two and a half months before you have anything to say about it.

Look, Covid also causes these issues according to early studies. And I have zero regrets about getting the vaccine. And just like trying to say whether "climate change" caused a specific hurricane, flood, or tornado, we'll all probably never know if our individual health issues were something we were going to get anyway or something triggered by the vaccine or by the actual disease. But you're also displaying a pretty dismissive attitude about the ramifications of having menstrual irregularities. If your period has never been anything but a minor inconvenience in your life, then awesome. Goody for you. But some people deal with debilitating pain or much more serious symptoms and this has bigger implications.

When people act like "menstrual irregularities" are nothing but a minor nothing, then that leads to effects on women's health in a variety of ways not being included in studies. I want studies. I want all the studies to ask these questions about women and our health. I don't want us to have to crowdsource period problems following Covid in order to convince medical professionals to look into it in the first place. It should be the default.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Farrar