Pondering my parenting

[JustEm]

2 minutes ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

This sort of situation really hasn't occurred that often. My kids would usually see their friends at each others' houses. On the odd occasion that they'd go to a movie, then I'd give a suitable amount of money that would cover the movie ticket + snack. Truly never an issue at all. My kids would offer to give back any left over $, and I'd always say don't worry. 

Pre-pandemic, two of my girls would go to the movies together reasonably regularly (maybe 2 or 3 times a year). The eldest (who had an income) and I would alternate who would pay for the whole thing (tickets and snacks for both girls). It worked just fine. Again, no issues ever.

 But what you describe is giving them pocket money is it not? It just isn't a regularly scheduled amount of money.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

3 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

Yes I think there must be a definition. Surely you do have some ingrained rules? Don’t be a jerk, treat people with respect, shut the fridge and doors when you come in the house, don’t put shoes on the furniture, etc.?

 So if they have no chores, do you do everything for them? Truly, this concept leaves me flabbergasted. Our kids do their own laundry by ten. Part of chores and rules comes from 13 people lived in our house at once. People don’t like to live in a mess and chaos so there must be rules and chores to ensure some people don’t get overworked or burnt out. 
 

We don’t supply kids with money on a regular basis. If someone is going out with a friend we’ll give them spending money if they don’t have a job. With the exception of one, our kids aren’t big spenders. 

We don't have rules at all, but we do have general expectations of being good humans. Things like being safe, respectful, courteous etc. I consider this more to do with our family culture than being anything like a rule though.

My children don't do dishes, laundry etc.   I just feel like they've got their whole adult lives to have to do those things, and it's not like it takes years of training to learn. 

Our house isn't chaos, and my kids aren't spoilt brats, really.

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

Oh please. I have a spectrum kiddo. I could write a book.

But this thread is asking for our own personal way of doing things, what worked for us. And that's what I posted. My family's own way of doing things. Note my frequent use of words like "we" and "our." What worked for us. I don't believe I ever said everyone (or anyone) should do things the same way.

Requoting you because your claim is stronger and broader than "This worked for us." 

2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

Most of those come under the heading of "good manners" or things that are learned through proper modeling, not things one needs rules for. Or at least not in our world. Like it would never, ever occur to me that one would have to teach a child to shut the fridge and house doors, much less to have rules about those things. It's just how things are done. Stuff like that certainly isn't something we ever needed to actively teach, let alone have rules about because our kids grew up from Day 1 seeing (and thus knowing) how those things are done.

Our kids saw us walk through doors without running people over and saw many people walk through doors without running people over, but yet, they needed to be taught how to walk through doors without running people over.

Apparently because my kids needed this teaching explicitly and not from models, we have don't have good manners or model things the right way. Apparently bad manners and improper modeling are "Just how things are done" in my family. Apparently we didn't start at Day 1. 

And now I'll just be pedantic because your dismissive "Oh please" really struck a nerve...you said you taught things from Day 1, but yet you say you taught your kids to do the lawn and laundry work on the spot when they got big enough. Some of us started teaching the components of these tasks from preschool because we needed to--for instance, the child needed to understand why their blanket would disappear and come back, etc., and they still needed explicit instruction later.

I don't expect people to constantly include disclaimers for special needs every time they open their mouth, but you directly attributed your kids' behaviors to virtue on your part or a default thing that magically happens. That is frequently not enough even with neurotypical kids. 

[chocolate-chip chooky]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

And this is where semantics comes into play. When I told my kids “don’t take apart the stair railings again “ that certainly was a rule that I hoped would be obeyed from then on out. Same with “don’t lick the cat”. But I never thought to include it on any “list of rules”.

Don't lick the cat 😅

[wendyroo]

18 minutes ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

I should have added this to my 'I don't do' list - punishments. I've never punished any of my three children, in 28+ years of parenting. 

I think there is a lot of semantic ambiguity in this as well.

I would say that we rarely act punitively. I do not react to a child in such a way as to make them regret their misbehavior...really, my kids' brains are not wired for regret or remorse, which both require perspective taking, so punishment would be a pointless endeavor.

Discipline and consequences, OTOH, we use in spades. If you tear up your brother's shirt, then you have to buy him a new one. If you kick the sliding glass door, then you have to stay in your room where there is no glass until I am available to closely supervise you around breakable things. If you draw on the wall then you have to clean it. I guess those could be viewed as punishments because we are enforcing them from on high, but that is not how I intend them, and realistically, I don't see how a family could function if those types of behaviors went entirely unaddressed (unpunished, undisciplined, unconsequenced, etc).

[wathe]

We don't have rule per se, (we haven't needed them thus far) but we do have what I'd call family culture.  Family culture includes standards of behaviour, and a culture of all pitching in to get done whatever needs to get done.  

No "allowance" or formal pocket money system.  We all pay for the things we need with the family's money.   The kids tend to get money for birthdays from generous relatives, so no real need for extra pocket money.

We do have a screen time system - maybe that counts as a rule.

[Drama Llama]

I feel as though people are using these words differently.  For example,

2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

Like it would never, ever occur to me that one would have to teach a child to shut the fridge and house doors, much less to have rules about those things. It's just how things are done. Stuff like that certainly isn't something we ever needed to actively teach, let alone have rules about because our kids grew up from Day 1 seeing (and thus knowing) how those things are done.

To me "shut the fridge door" is a rule.  It's a rule that some kids absorb naturally, and some kids need to be taught explicitly, but it's a rule either way.  I've had 3 kids, and all of them absorb some rules and need others made visible, but the specifics of which vary greatly from kid to kid.  My oldest needs a lot of coaching on things like "make sure you copy down the assignment before you leave class" or "put your basketball shoes by the front door, so you'll be able to find them", but was also naturally very kind and cautious.  His youngest brother never loses or forgets anything, but needed to be explicitly told the following:

Don't throw your sippy cup at the dog

Or Daddy

Or your brother

Nope, don't throw your fork either

Ooops, let's add mom to that list

Come to think of it, let's just not throw things in the kitchen.

Or the rest of the house.  

2 hours ago, Arcadia said:

No chores. Our housework is very minimal since we live in a small condo. Kids sort their own laundry, wash their own cups and bowls/plates, and sometimes cook.

I'm not even sure what a "chore" would be if doing laundry, dishes and cooking don't count.  

4 hours ago, Wheres Toto said:

We opened up a student bank account for him and deposited an amount of money so he'd have it if he needed it while on campus.  

This seems to me like the definition of pocket money.  

So, I guess I think this isn't as much a conversation about parenting differently, it's about using vocabulary differently.

 

[chocolate-chip chooky]

20 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

 But what you describe is giving them pocket money is it not? It just isn't a regularly scheduled amount of money.

To me, pocket money means giving a set amount on a regular schedule, as opposed to giving some cash as needed. 

[Arcadia]

26 minutes ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

On the odd occasion that they'd go to a movie, then I'd give a suitable amount of money that would cover the movie ticket + snack. Truly never an issue at all. My kids would offer to give back any left over $, and I'd always say don't worry. 

My mom, aunts and I call that pocket money 😀

[Arcadia]

8 minutes ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

To me, pocket money means giving a set amount on a regular schedule, as opposed to giving some cash as needed. 

For me, that is allowance. Like my mom would give me a monthly food allowance and a yearly school books allowance when I was school age. (ETA: I come from a country where we have to buy our own textbooks and workbooks from 1st to 12th grade.)

Edited February 11, 2022 by Arcadia

[Arcadia]

5 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

 

I'm not even sure what a "chore" would be if doing laundry, dishes and cooking don't count.  

 

Personal responsibility. My husband does the laundry, they are only sorting out their own from the dryer and putting them away in their own wardrobes. They aren’t doing dishes, only their own utensils and bowl/plate. So the cooking utensils are still washed by my husband and I.  They aren’t cooking family meals, they are cooking for themselves. 

[kbutton]

8 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

So, I guess I think this isn't as much a conversation about parenting differently, it's about using vocabulary differently.

And maybe the level of formality of the system? Ad hoc vs. chore recurring, "my job" attitude, chart, etc. 

1 hour ago, BlsdMama said:

We intentionally do not have assigned chores because we never wanted to foster the idea that they did the minimally assigned work so they were done. We wanted everyone to learn to “see a need, meet a need,” so to speak. 

Do realize there are MANY households in which kids are never asked to pitch in. It boggles my mind. Sometimes because Mom is the only one who can do it “right” or because there is too much push back. 

Exactly. Regarding the second, there is a great book about this. It's meant to be a book that brings up conversation and makes suggestions without saying, "Here's a magic formula." It's very much a take inspiration book and a "consider some of these reasons for xyz and then do what works" book.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1258614.Children_Who_Do_Too_Little

[Drama Llama]

8 minutes ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

To me, pocket money means giving a set amount on a regular schedule, as opposed to giving some cash as needed. 

I think this might be a regional difference.  To me pocket money is just money you have control over to some degree, so money I can use for a movie snack or keep?  Totally pocket money. 

[Wheres Toto]

9 minutes ago, Baseballandhockey said:

 

This seems to me like the definition of pocket money.  

So, I guess I think this isn't as much a conversation about parenting differently, it's about using vocabulary differently.

 

I took the initial question to be asking about an allowance - money given regularly possibly tied to doing chores.  In my initial reply, I said we didn't do allowances.   

Ds's debit card is more for things like books, supplies or lunch while on campus.  It has a specific purpose.    Pocket money to me would be money that we gave them that they could use for whatever they want, generally "fun money".  

I can see some of this coming down to semantics. 

[DreamerGirl]

I am more about skills than rules or chores.

Financial literacy, cooking, cleaning. 

Taking public transportation, washing dishes by hand, drying clothes other than a dryer are things I think will help as not everywhere has a dryer or a dishwasher or a car. It is always with a view to prepare them.

Whenever I panic that DH and I are not doing that adequately or what skills we missed, I think back to how we hard to work hard to learn what new skill we needed and how much a sense of accomplishment it gave us when we did. Some we mastered, some we muster.

We cannot prepare our kids always for everything. It is not possible. Their life is their own journey and who knows where it will take them. We do our best as much as we can. And let go.

[Eos]

Our family has had two rules and two "standards to live by."   

Rules: no playing with balls in the house, and you must be home when you say you will be home and calling or texting does not count.  

Standards: Be A Team Player and Mitigate The Risk, which is a saying I've drilled into the kids. Sometimes stuff is risky, and mitigation is the goal.

No allowance, but money given when they need it, all of them worked and had little businesses from young ages.  

No individual chores - we function as an amoeba, or so I was once told.  Meaning, when it's time to clean up, we all clean up.  Time to stack wood or do dishes, we all jump in.  Except laundry.  Dear husband once declared that Laundry Is A Man's Job and I've never tried to change his mind 🙂 .

[J-rap]

2 hours ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

This sort of situation really hasn't occurred that often. My kids would usually see their friends at each others' houses. On the odd occasion that they'd go to a movie, then I'd give a suitable amount of money that would cover the movie ticket + snack. Truly never an issue at all. My kids would offer to give back any left over $, and I'd always say don't worry. 

Pre-pandemic, two of my girls would go to the movies together reasonably regularly (maybe 2 or 3 times a year). The eldest (who had an income) and I would alternate who would pay for the whole thing (tickets and snacks for both girls). It worked just fine. Again, no issues ever.

I see.  So you give money as needed.  Makes sense now!   

Edited February 11, 2022 by J-rap

[J-rap]

1 hour ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I think this might be a regional difference.  To me pocket money is just money you have control over to some degree, so money I can use for a movie snack or keep?  Totally pocket money. 

That's what I was confused about too.  I think of that as pocket money as well.

ETA:  If it's actually giving a set amount of money on a regular basis to spend as they choose, then we'd call it an allowance.  That's different than pocket money (to me), which would be giving just a little bit to cover an event or something, like a ticket and snacks at the theater.  Must be just different terminology depending on geography!

Edited February 11, 2022 by J-rap

[Melissa Louise]

Just to add, only one of my children is neurotypical, and she has struggled with GA since she was six. The others are  ASD + major mh issues, and ADHD + mh issues. 

So it wasn't so.much that I had easy, uncomplicated  children. 

My lack of rules/chores was due to:

1. Backlash to growing up in a house where rules were arbitrary and punishing 

2. Lack of will to enforce a multitude of rules, other than safety ones, because, exhausting. 

3. Norms - most of my friends, while having more 'rules' than me, did not really embrace a rules led approach. 

4. Not really understanding the point of a lot of rules myself. 

Number 4 was key for me - I don't really get the point of non-safety rules. 

Anyway. We all do what we feel is best, with the children we have, and no outcomes are guaranteed.

But it's not like some of us just get handed the easy kids, and so we can be all heads in the clouds. 

 

 

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

For me, that is allowance. Like my mom would give me a monthly food allowance and a yearly school books allowance when I was school age. (ETA: I come from a country where we have to buy our own textbooks and workbooks from 1st to 12th grade.)

We call an allowance pocket money here 

Money your mum gives you to go to the movies or whatever doesn't have a name - it's just money mum gives you. 

[wendyroo]

17 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Number 4 was key for me - I don't really get the point of non-safety rules. 

But a lot of really intolerable behaviors aren't necessary unsafe.

Throwing a plate across the room, if not aimed at anyone, isn't inherently unsafe. Yet, it doesn't really work to freely allow kids to do that.

Tearing up your brother's art work - not unsafe.

Painting on the walls - not unsafe.

Throwing all the silverware away - not unsafe.

Do you really not have rules or family norms or expectations that children shouldn't do those things...and if they do there will be some type of consequence?

[Melissa Louise]

1 minute ago, wendyroo said:

But a lot of really intolerable behaviors aren't necessary unsafe.

Throwing a plate across the room, if not aimed at anyone, isn't inherently unsafe. Yet, it doesn't really work to freely allow kids to do that.

Tearing up your brother's art work - not unsafe.

Painting on the walls - not unsafe.

Throwing all the silverware away - not unsafe.

Do you really not have rules or family norms or expectations that children shouldn't do those things...and if they do there will be some type of consequence?

Well, mine are all grown up now.

We didn't really have anything but natural consequences. Some kids are less responsive to natural consequences, that's for sure. 

I guess we had a norm that silverware belongs in the drawer. I wouldn't consider that a rule, but I totally understand and accept that some kids need this type of norm explicitly communicated. 

Rules to me are things like:

Do your homework before playing 

Don't eat on the sofa 

Tidy your room on Saturdays. 

Go to bed at 7.30. 

Don't get down from the table without asking. 

Don't talk back to Mom. 

Rules, to me,  are things Mum and Dad decide you should do, based on ??

 

 

[73349]

We have done an allowance since 1st grade. At first, it was cash in hand every Monday; nowadays it's a bank transfer the first Monday of every month. DS is a saver and considering buying a certificate of deposit. This year I've introduced him to YNAB, and I want him thinking of money as more than an amorphous pile of paper.

We only make a rule when it needs making. There is *one* rule posted in our house (in the kitchen: $10 fine for asking more than once a day when dinner will be ready). My child needs policies and procedures via direct instruction, not just modeling, but I don't know that I'd call all of them rules (e.g., when you're in the house, your shoes belong in the spot for them by the door, generally neither on your feet nor loose somewhere in the house). Food only in the dining room is a norm with occasional exceptions for movie popcorn or the like. DS is safety-conscious, so once I've explained why one choice is safe and the other is not, he tends to absorb that. We have a firm screen time allowance and procedure in response to demonstrated need.

We do assigned chores. We need them. I use Habitica and Sweepy to keep up with mine or, like, I could go 6 months without thinking to dust, even though I have allergies. DS has a weekly rotation of little things to do before school, one on Saturday (wash and replace his sheets), and general responsibility for the household recycling. I intend to get him doing a significant part of the cooking within the next few years--he'll need it.

I think the important thing is being responsive to how things are going (for any given person and with the state of the household). That can look different in every home without being a problem.

Edited February 11, 2022 by 73349

[kirstenhill]

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

Rules, to me,  are things Mum and Dad decide you should do, based on ??

 

 

This has been an interesting discussion.   I feel like when my kids were younger that besides rules that were a matter of safety, we had a number of rules that were based on desiring to avoid property damage, and the adult realities of having to pay for said damage/spend time making repairs.  Maybe my 4 kids were extra hard on the house?   I thought I would be a "fun mom" and let my kids jump on the couch.  The not-new-to-us couch broke a spring, damaging the wood floor of the house we were renting.  We had to buy a new couch AND money was taken out of the damage deposit when we moved out of the house, because there were huge gashes where the spring dug into the floor.  There was no way my 4 kids ages 10 and under could have paid those costs, so they were paid by us as adults, and we made the rule that there would be no more jumping on any couches.  We also had two doors in that same house that could be slammed together, and when one slammed into the other, the very old door knobs would catch in such a way that the bolt holding together the door knobs on one or both doors would essentially "snap" when the doors were untangled from one another.  We made a rule for no slamming those doors, because the consequence was not only the cost of the new bolt (very cheap, even the kids could have paid for it), but also my time or DH's time to drive to the hardware store, buy the new bolt, and the time to reassemble the door knob set-up again. 

I told my kids a number of times when they were younger that when they were adults, they would have more freedom to act in ways that would potentially cause material damage to the houses they lived in, because then they would have the money, transportation, and skill to fix whatever damage they caused (or live with the results of having a broken couch, etc...something DH and I weren't willing to live with).

Now that my kids are older, they would probably say we have very few "house rules" because I feel like we did explicitly teach a lot of norms and rules when they were younger.  I think if you asked them, they would said our main house rule is "No shooting nerf guns at someone who doesn't want to be shot at."  -- Not that I ever have to say that to my boys now, but when they have friends over I am always telling the friends that this is our "house rule" for nerf guns, because prior to having that rule, friends who came over would indiscriminately shoot their nerf guns at me or DD (who never wanted to play nerf of be shot at).  I decided that either most households must not have this rule or they just don't play nerf, because me or DD getting shot at by the boys' friends when playing with nerf guns happened surprisingly often. 

[Kassia]

26 minutes ago, kirstenhill said:

] I thought I would be a "fun mom" and let my kids jump on the couch.  The not-new-to-us couch broke a spring, damaging the wood floor of the house we were renting.  We had to buy a new couch AND money was taken out of the damage deposit when we moved out of the house, because there were huge gashes where the spring dug into the floor.  There was no way my 4 kids ages 10 and under could have paid those costs, so they were paid by us as adults, and we made the rule that there would be no more jumping on any couches.  \

This reminds me of when my kids were little.  We did have a "no jumping on the couch" rule and I told them that the consequence would be they would have to contribute to the "new couch fund" if they jumped on the couch.  Well, my naughtiest ds couldn't resist and I caught him jumping on the couch and made him contribute a nickel to the new couch fund.  He was so indignant about it and still talks about it today (he's 27 now).  He never did that again.

We really had very few rules.  Another rule we had was no gum wrappers left on the kitchen table.  Dd was really bad about leaving her wrappers there.  Well, she had quite a collection of wrappers on the table and I told her she couldn't have gum for a week as a consequence.  She was traumatized!  I'm pretty sure I told her the consequences ahead of time but maybe I didn't.  But, wow, was she upset.  

 

[Melissa Louise]

30 minutes ago, kirstenhill said:

This has been an interesting discussion.   I feel like when my kids were younger that besides rules that were a matter of safety, we had a number of rules that were based on desiring to avoid property damage, and the adult realities of having to pay for said damage/spend time making repairs.  Maybe my 4 kids were extra hard on the house?   I thought I would be a "fun mom" and let my kids jump on the couch.  The not-new-to-us couch broke a spring, damaging the wood floor of the house we were renting.  We had to buy a new couch AND money was taken out of the damage deposit when we moved out of the house, because there were huge gashes where the spring dug into the floor.  There was no way my 4 kids ages 10 and under could have paid those costs, so they were paid by us as adults, and we made the rule that there would be no more jumping on any couches.  We also had two doors in that same house that could be slammed together, and when one slammed into the other, the very old door knobs would catch in such a way that the bolt holding together the door knobs on one or both doors would essentially "snap" when the doors were untangled from one another.  We made a rule for no slamming those doors, because the consequence was not only the cost of the new bolt (very cheap, even the kids could have paid for it), but also my time or DH's time to drive to the hardware store, buy the new bolt, and the time to reassemble the door knob set-up again. 

I told my kids a number of times when they were younger that when they were adults, they would have more freedom to act in ways that would potentially cause material damage to the houses they lived in, because then they would have the money, transportation, and skill to fix whatever damage they caused (or live with the results of having a broken couch, etc...something DH and I weren't willing to live with).

Now that my kids are older, they would probably say we have very few "house rules" because I feel like we did explicitly teach a lot of norms and rules when they were younger.  I think if you asked them, they would said our main house rule is "No shooting nerf guns at someone who doesn't want to be shot at."  -- Not that I ever have to say that to my boys now, but when they have friends over I am always telling the friends that this is our "house rule" for nerf guns, because prior to having that rule, friends who came over would indiscriminately shoot their nerf guns at me or DD (who never wanted to play nerf of be shot at).  I decided that either most households must not have this rule or they just don't play nerf, because me or DD getting shot at by the boys' friends when playing with nerf guns happened surprisingly often. 

I think I was just a very lazy parent (in some ways). And lucky that the hand-me-down couch was very solid! 

We had to patch the garage wall several times because soccer balls hit it, but I couldn't really imagine how to say 'Hey, don't play soccer in the yard' so instead we just fixed the walls.

Idk. I'm pretty much a rules failure.

Not claiming it's good, not claiming it's bad. Just saying, no rules doesn't always mean you have angel children who never give a moments worry. (It probably does mean that whatever trouble they give you, they have the capacity to read and respond to implicit norms though.)

 

[Clarita]

3 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

We had to patch the garage wall several times because soccer balls hit it, but I couldn't really imagine how to say 'Hey, don't play soccer in the yard' so instead we just fixed the walls.

I feel like I have rules in the house just for throwing. This is the number one reason there is not "yes" space for my kids. My eldest is a boy and from a young age no throwing in the house was a rule. At age 5 he can only throw inside the batting cage. 

My husband is all about "chores" and I'm all about not making them chores as much as everyone chipping in to make sure our household stays functional.

As for allowance I don't know what we'll end up doing. My kids "work" as toy testers and the compensation we get I let them use at their discretion. 

[LaughingCat]

It's interesting to read these diferent takes on rules -- I would have said we do have rules, but reading some of the posts, we match to people who say they didn't have rules.  Our rules have only rarely been 'explicit' -- and only then when there was a specific issue.   However -- I am very aware that I was that kid who was just totally oblivious to some obvious to most rules -- so I try to say general society type rules out loud often (and talk about my troubles following some of them too LOL -- ETA: like closing kitchen cupboard doors 🤪). 

OTOH I am all about allowances (NOT attached to chores -- helping around the house is part of everyone's job as part of the family) -- because I think it helps the child to think more about money (as in if you spend all your money then too bad about <fun thing> you wanted to do because no 'pocket money' for you from mom or dad) and with older having dyslexia I did not want to make money reliant on having a job (school was her full-time job unlike many kids).   And anyway I have a lot of clothes related 'stuff' from my own childhood (my mom bought 90% what she wanted me to wear vs I wanted to wear -- or even what actually fit sadly) so additional clothes allowance started in high school (we'll see how that works with younger though who is just about heading into high school and could care less about clothes).

Edited February 12, 2022 by LaughingCat

[frogger]

This as a general statement has probably been true for about a decade when half my kids were hitting the teens.

 

Not much for spelled out rules.

 

They have specific chores for the household. Things like snow blow the driveway or rake leaves or mop all the floors once a week. They take care of their own breakfasts and lunches for the most part and all their own laundry. 

When my oldest was a freshman and my youngest about 9 I realized it was hard to keep the budget fair so I decided everyone would have a set amount of money for the month and had to budget it themselves. The youngest had to be prompted a few times that if he couldn't pay for necessary items like pants or gloves I would just decide how his money was spent but the rest have done great. And even the youngest started choosing wisely paying for deodorant and haircuts and pants. So yes my children get about $100 a month but I don't buy them anything either. I realize this isn't the norm but it isn't really pocket money to spend on candy. It buys things that parents usually just buy for their kids like clothes and toiletries. If they are careful with it they can use the excess for whatever they want. 

Edited February 12, 2022 by frogger

[LMD]

We have plenty of rules. For us they are based on family values, and some of those values are respect for the things we have been blessed with and respect for other people (including their time and efforts).

I don't know, the semantics might be understood better as guidelines or family standards or etiquette or general 'this is what we do when we share space with other humans' or everyone pitches in or don't be a selfish butthead.

As for money, no, we don't give a set, regular amount. We look for ways to allow them to make money, we will contribute cash if needed, and they're generally spoiled enough already.

[Frances]

10 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I think this might be a regional difference.  To me pocket money is just money you have control over to some degree, so money I can use for a movie snack or keep?  Totally pocket money. 

I’m not sure why, but the term pocket money sounds very foreign to me. Like something I read about in a book that takes place in another country. I don’t think I’ve ever used the phrase IRL.

[Frances]

12 hours ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

We don't have rules at all, but we do have general expectations of being good humans. Things like being safe, respectful, courteous etc. I consider this more to do with our family culture than being anything like a rule though.

My children don't do dishes, laundry etc.   I just feel like they've got their whole adult lives to have to do those things, and it's not like it takes years of training to learn. 

Our house isn't chaos, and my kids aren't spoilt brats, really.

I have to say I find your no dishes, laundry, etc done by kids interesting. Maybe because I was never a FT stay at home after my child became school age, there was no way my husband and I were going to both work outside the home, homeschool our son, and do all of the household work while he did nothing to help. It just wasn’t our family culture. We never assigned specific chores or gave an allowance for doing them. It was just the expectation that we all would contribute as needed.

He voluntarily started handling all of his own laundry around ten. He loved to shop for food and cook and would do lots of that, but also knew that helping to clean up went with cooking. He almost always had choices about how he would help and usually just volunteered without being asked or assigned specific chores. For example, when he was in early elementary, he decided to start making lunches for his dad to take to work, because he knew from experience that his dad often got busy and forgot to eat. He enjoyed decorating the paper lunch bags, prepping the food, and including notes or drawings.

I believe you when you say your kids aren’t spoiled brats. But are you literally saying your children never help with getting a meal ready or cleaning up afterwards, they simply show up to eat, like at a restaurant, and that’s it, whether it’s at your house or someone else’s? Or are you saying they aren’t assigned the chore of helping with meals or clean up?

Edited February 12, 2022 by Frances

[popmom]

21 hours ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

I've been following the rules thread with interest, and I remember that not long ago there was a thread about what pocket money your kids get, and how this does or doesn't link to their chores.

I've got three children. One adult, one young adult, one teenager.

We've never had rules, chores or pocket money. And thinking about the families I know here (Australia), I don't think they do either.

My sample is pretty small, admittedly, but I'm just wondering if this is cultural to some extent.

Or maybe my small circle is just a bit unusual?

Anyone else have no rules, no chores and no pocket money for their kids?

 

I haven’t read a single reply to your original post… but I have never had rules or chores or given allowances to my kids. And I do give pocket money whenever they need it. I’m genuinely happy to do that because I enjoy giving good gifts to my children. And it doesn’t need to be tied to any sort of performance. 
 

And if anyone wants to criticize my “lax” parenting, they can bite my *#%. Because so far my adult children have accomplished far more than I ever did by their age. And their accomplishments aren’t for their own good. They are making a difference for the good of others and their community. Like I don’t even understand how I could have produced kids so much better than me. And yet I do understand. They didn’t grow up in an abusive family. 

Edited February 12, 2022 by popmom

[SKL]

I guess it depends on how you define rules, chores, and pocket money.  😛

When my kids were around 10, their teacher said my kids had told her there are no rules at my house.  I found that amusing.  I mean, maybe I don't go around with a list of do's and don'ts, but obviously there are limits, right?  Like no gouging your sister's eyes out, answer when your mom calls, attend school, practice your instrument.  Does the fact that my kids "forget" to follow the rules (such as, put your trash in the trash can and not on the floor) mean they aren't actually rules?

As far as chores, I'm mostly aiming for people to contribute to keeping a decent house.  Basically acting like a human being.  You would think that would come naturally, but nope.  So I have to tell my kids to pick up their rooms, clear their place at the table, take care of the pup, etc.  Are those chores?  One of my kids is a great cook, but I never ask her to cook.  It's her choice.  Different from when I was a kid and cooking was assigned.

Pocket money ... do we mean an allowance that is just automatically paid just for breathing?  I am not against that idea, but it's never been how I've done things.  I do create opportunities for my kids to earn money, because I think it's good for them to get practice managing it.  They also have very generous aunties who give them cash for various occasions.  So do they usually have money in their pockets?  Yes.

[SKL]

My kids don't wash our dishes either.  It hasn't been a priority to push that; and I kind of enjoy doing it myself.

My mom was much more intentional about making sure I learned how to not just do tasks, but manage a house.  I may be failing my kids in that respect, I don't know.  It seems to me that while I did some things my kids don't do, they also do things I didn't do, so it probably evens out.

 

[SKL]

dp sorry.  Internet is on and off here tonight.

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by SKL

[chocolate-chip chooky]

15 hours ago, Frances said:

I have to say I find your no dishes, laundry, etc done by kids interesting. Maybe because I was never a FT stay at home after my child became school age, there was no way my husband and I were going to both work outside the home, homeschool our son, and do all of the household work while he did nothing to help. It just wasn’t our family culture. We never assigned specific chores or gave an allowance for doing them. It was just the expectation that we all would contribute as needed.

He voluntarily started handling all of his own laundry around ten. He loved to shop for food and cook and would do lots of that, but also knew that helping to clean up went with cooking. He almost always had choices about how he would help and usually just volunteered without being asked or assigned specific chores. For example, when he was in early elementary, he decided to start making lunches for his dad to take to work, because he knew from experience that his dad often got busy and forgot to eat. He enjoyed decorating the paper lunch bags, prepping the food, and including notes or drawings.

I believe you when you say your kids aren’t spoiled brats. But are you literally saying your children never help with getting a meal ready or cleaning up afterwards, they simply show up to eat, like at a restaurant, and that’s it, whether it’s at your house or someone else’s? Or are you saying they aren’t assigned the chore of helping with meals or clean up?

I don't see it as being like a restaurant. I see it as how we do family meals. 

Either my husband or myself makes the meal. We let the children know when it is ready. Everyone comes and eats and thanks the meal-maker. Everyone brings their own plate and cutlery to the kitchen. My husband and I clean up.

No-one gets to choose what they have, and no-one ever complains. 

It works fine for us. My kids seem to be turning out okay 🙂 

[Frances]

1 hour ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

I don't see it as being like a restaurant. I see it as how we do family meals. 

Either my husband or myself makes the meal. We let the children know when it is ready. Everyone comes and eats and thanks the meal-maker. Everyone brings their own plate and cutlery to the kitchen. My husband and I clean up.

No-one gets to choose what they have, and no-one ever complains. 

It works fine for us. My kids seem to be turning out okay 🙂 

So they are helping to clean up by bringing their dishes to the kitchen? I’ve only personally seen that model here in very traditional families where the stay at home mom does all of the cooking and clean-up. But if it works for you, great. I’ve never been to Australia, so maybe your model is the cultural norm there.

I do know that both my mom and my best friend (grew up in Latin America and had servants and maids) deeply resented not being taught how to cook, as it made their early married life more difficult. But I suppose today with YouTube videos about everything, entering adult life not knowing how to cook is not as big of a problem. 
 

From articles I’ve read, young adults today are much less prepared for adulting than in the past. And they rely lots on videos to teach them things they didn’t learn at home.

[Shelydon]

Yes, my kids have chores.  Emptying the dishwasher, cleaning their room and bathroom, pet care, own laundry, helping with yard care and home repairs as needed.  They helped remodel our house a few years ago.  All kids can cook at least basic meals.  One is an aspiring chef.

No pocket money.  If they need money they ask.  My college student and high school senior have part time jobs. My other two just ask for cash if they need it.  The both also pet sit and do yard care in our neighborhood for extra cash.

Rules-- normal house rules as little people that mostly focused on not destroying the house and its contents.  Also rules that applied to not doing things that would damage your body.  Basically we tried to teach our kids not to act in a foolish manner and to learn to control themselves.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Shelydon

[Jean in Newcastle]

We all need to parent the kids we have. It sounds like no matter what words are used (rules/no rules;  chores/no chores; allowance/pocket money/spending money) many of us parent in mostly similar ways. No reason for smugness based on the words you use.  And if some kids need more explicit guidance there is nothing wrong with that- certainly no reason to label that as “abusive”. 

[chocolate-chip chooky]

14 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

We all need to parent the kids we have. It sounds like no matter what words are used (rules/no rules;  chores/no chores; allowance/pocket money/spending money) many of us parent in mostly similar ways. No reason for smugness based on the words you use.  And if some kids need more explicit guidance there is nothing wrong with that- certainly no reason to label that as “abusive”. 

I don't think anyone is being smug. And I don't recall anyone accusing others of abuse. Maybe I missed something? 🤔

It's just an interesting conversation. I think the semantics are interesting, and I've always found parenting choices to be interesting.

[popmom]

44 minutes ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

I don't think anyone is being smug. And I don't recall anyone accusing others of abuse. Maybe I missed something? 🤔

It's just an interesting conversation. I think the semantics are interesting, and I've always found parenting choices to be interesting.

I mentioned abuse, and it may have been misunderstood. I was referring to my own upbringing—not anyone else’s parenting choices on this thread. My own mother has always criticized my parenting, so if I came off as harsh it’s because of that. Not aimed at anyone here.
 

Even though my kids rarely had assigned regular chores, they did help out as needed. And all but my youngest took over their own laundry by the time they were 14 or so. Not because I told them they had to. I just kinda stopped washing their clothes. 😂 I did teach them how at first. 

[popmom]

I have to sort of retract my original statement—I’m in the teen/young adult years, so I wasn’t even thinking about preschool elementary years. I did have strict nap times and bed times when they were very young. I don’t think of stuff like that as a rule—more of a routine. Similarly, chew with your mouth closed isn’t a rule—it’s manners. We did teach lots of manners. Anyway, it’s not like it was chaos or anything. 🙂

[Melissa in Australia]

We have routines, manners AND rules. we have one rule taped all over the kitchen door. It is do NOT touch matches or lighters. do NOT start fires.  that was what the fire prevention officer sent me to tape up after twin 1 lit multiple fires under his bed. We have other rules like not allowed in anyone else's bedroom - that is to reduce the  chance of theft and deliberate breaking of personal stuff.  Wash hands as soon as coming inside , and before eating is also a rule. Shoes off before coming inside. these are all rules

 we have manners and charts on the wall that if twins comply they get positive reinforcers. these include saying please and thank you , putting clothes in the laundry basket and putting snack plate in the dishwasher, brushing teeth .

we have routines, like as soon as you finish eating tea you go have a shower , brush your teeth and go to bed with audiobook. Our whole day is a very long closely followed routine really

we have chores we all do them at chore time. I have chores , pick veggies for tea and bring in laundry, DH has chores feed dogs and shut up shed. twins have chores, collect sticks from under the gum tree for kindling and get 5 pieces of fire wood each so I can cook tea, take scrap dish to chooks. 

[Carrie12345]

On 2/11/2022 at 1:47 PM, BlsdMama said:

Do realize there are MANY households in which kids are never asked to pitch in. It boggles my mind. Sometimes because Mom is the only one who can do it “right” or because there is too much push back. 

In our house, it isn’t as much about “right” as it is *effective*. (Not that my own kids don’t do anything. They just aren’t assigned very much.)
It shifts a bit as our household changes, but up to 7 people and multiple pets in a small space demands efficiency for ME to function.  And when we had one part-time kid, plus two working different schedules, and everyone volunteering, giving the mouse a cookie was complicated crazytown.

I don’t really worry too much. As someone who had a lot of household responsibilities, I went through a LONG phase of being a straight up slob out on my own. I’m talking embarrassingly bad. Throw in the first few kids and ugh! My childhood training was meaningless, lol.

[Carrie12345]

On 2/11/2022 at 2:25 PM, hjffkj said:

 But what you describe is giving them pocket money is it not? It just isn't a regularly scheduled amount of money.

Again, the semantics can be argued.  In our house, I don’t call it pocket money if I decide to buy an iced coffee for myself. I also don’t call it pocket money if we’re on an outing and I tell the kids they can pick something out for themselves.  It’s just THE money, not individual or specially categorized.
Others might categorize it, and that’s fine, too.

[Carrie12345]

On 2/11/2022 at 7:21 PM, Kassia said:

This reminds me of when my kids were little.  We did have a "no jumping on the couch" rule and I told them that the consequence would be they would have to contribute to the "new couch fund" if they jumped on the couch.  Well, my naughtiest ds couldn't resist and I caught him jumping on the couch and made him contribute a nickel to the new couch fund.  He was so indignant about it and still talks about it today (he's 27 now).  He never did that again.

We really had very few rules.  Another rule we had was no gum wrappers left on the kitchen table.  Dd was really bad about leaving her wrappers there.  Well, she had quite a collection of wrappers on the table and I told her she couldn't have gum for a week as a consequence.  She was traumatized!  I'm pretty sure I told her the consequences ahead of time but maybe I didn't.  But, wow, was she upset.  

 

Now I kind of wish I had done that!
We went through several cheap (and one free) couches as the kids were growing up. Once we spent “real grown up money” on a couch, I was constantly going around saying “Do YOU have couch money?!?”  The way my grown kids still lean their butts on the back of the couch while talking tells me it wasn’t an effective method. (Even the kid who HAS spent her own grown up money on a couch!)

[Ausmumof3]

3 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

We have routines, manners AND rules. we have one rule taped all over the kitchen door. It is do NOT touch matches or lighters. do NOT start fires.  that was what the fire prevention officer sent me to tape up after twin 1 lit multiple fires under his bed. We have other rules like not allowed in anyone else's bedroom - that is to reduce the  chance of theft and deliberate breaking of personal stuff.  Wash hands as soon as coming inside , and before eating is also a rule. Shoes off before coming inside. these are all rules

 we have manners and charts on the wall that if twins comply they get positive reinforcers. these include saying please and thank you , putting clothes in the laundry basket and putting snack plate in the dishwasher, brushing teeth .

we have routines, like as soon as you finish eating tea you go have a shower , brush your teeth and go to bed with audiobook. Our whole day is a very long closely followed routine really

we have chores we all do them at chore time. I have chores , pick veggies for tea and bring in laundry, DH has chores feed dogs and shut up shed. twins have chores, collect sticks from under the gum tree for kindling and get 5 pieces of fire wood each so I can cook tea, take scrap dish to chooks. 

Totally off topic but does that mean you cook on a wood stove?

[Ausmumof3]

Just now, Carrie12345 said:

Now I kind of wish I had done that!
We went through several cheap (and one free) couches as the kids were growing up. Once we spent “real grown up money” on a couch, I was constantly going around saying “Do YOU have couch money?!?”  The way my grown kids still lean their butts on the back of the couch while talking tells me it wasn’t an effective method. (Even the kid who HAS spent her own grown up money on a couch!)

I also did this! I found the new couch fund jar the other day which has been long disused. The couch has been disposed of and the couple of dollars in the jar weren’t buying anyone any new couches! It was a second hand to us couch that had already done hard yards and survived (kind of) at least 12 years here. We now have yet another second hand to us couch. I feel like new couches aren’t going to be a major feature in my life.

[Eos]

Reading back through this thread, I will add that although we have only two hard rules, we consider ourselves "strict."  What does that mean without rules?  I think it's about manners, thinking through how my behavior affects others and choosing the most respectful path.  Strict for us has also meant low-level consumerism, but mostly it's about attitude.  Speaking and acting respectfully and participating in keeping the household running.  So somehow we were strict but not rule-bound.  It's possible I'm using a word that others associate with voluminous rules.

"What the eye doesn't see the heart doesn't yearn for" is an expression I used and thought about a lot when the kids were young.  So instead of having to have rules about clothes or technology, we just didn't have some of the things that some families argued about and my kids didn't yearn for them because they weren't in school to see or hear about them.