Pondering my parenting

[chocolate-chip chooky]

I've been following the rules thread with interest, and I remember that not long ago there was a thread about what pocket money your kids get, and how this does or doesn't link to their chores.

I've got three children. One adult, one young adult, one teenager.

We've never had rules, chores or pocket money. And thinking about the families I know here (Australia), I don't think they do either.

My sample is pretty small, admittedly, but I'm just wondering if this is cultural to some extent.

Or maybe my small circle is just a bit unusual?

Anyone else have no rules, no chores and no pocket money for their kids?

 

[Melissa in Australia]

we have rules. heaps of chores and no pocket money. 

[Melissa Louise]

No real rules, no set chores (but the children did work alongside me from little to adult), no pocket money (but plenty of Christmas and birthday money, plus the girls earned babysitting $ from when they were 11/12).

 

[Guest]

Few rules, specific chores when my kids were young but my youngest mostly didn’t have them, pocket money for the first two kids for maybe five years, then it stopped. 

With the pocket money thing, it became an issue because I always had to go to the bank and get specific denominations. So I made it a monthly allowance; then I just phased it out. By then, my kids were earning some money themselves. 
 

Chores: I was very deliberate about that for a few years when my two oldest kids were young but I would always have to write out their job cards every week. So that died out because I started just telling them verbally what I wanted them to do and they did it. 
 

We also had a screen time token system at one point for the two older kids. I did actually think that was a good idea and I liked how they had to think about what they wanted to do with screens rather than just mindlessly doing Neopets for five hours, but that one also died out because it was something I had to constantly monitor - had they spent their tokens yet today? What about when they were at a friend’s house? What about online stuff I needed them to  do? Or family movie night? The screen token thing was long gone before the pandemic, but it seems absolutely laughable *since* the pandemic, as screen usage became vital for us all. 
 

The thing I have thought I’m pretty different about as a parent (than many others) is that  my kids have very rarely had a standard “punishment” for bad choices. I just don’t do power plays with my kids. If there is a problem, let’s work it out, let’s discuss it like mature people. I’m not doing something arbitrary like taking phones or computers away. Maybe I just got lucky but it seemed to work as a parenting philosophy; my two YA seem to be fine humans and my remaining teen seems on track. So we’ll see. 

 

[Carrie12345]

1 hour ago, chocolate-chip chooky said:

I've been following the rules thread with interest, and I remember that not long ago there was a thread about what pocket money your kids get, and how this does or doesn't link to their chores.

I've got three children. One adult, one young adult, one teenager.

We've never had rules, chores or pocket money. And thinking about the families I know here (Australia), I don't think they do either.

My sample is pretty small, admittedly, but I'm just wondering if this is cultural to some extent.

Or maybe my small circle is just a bit unusual?

Anyone else have no rules, no chores and no pocket money for their kids?

 

We have sort of no rules, sort of few chores, and my kids don’t exactly have pocket money.

When we were going through the foster parent approval process, our caseworker kept recommending we write up our house rules.  II tried so hard.
The firmest one I could think of is that we don’t wear shoes in the house. But guests can. And we sometimes do while unloading groceries, orifIforgotsomethingon my way out. Or any other logical reason.
And other people are supposed to let me know if they’re going to use the washing machine so I can plan my use accordingly.
And you’re not supposed to leave the house without telling anyone.
Oh, and there’s technically a rule to not use the minivan windshield as a slide after 2 replacements in 2 weeks a decade ago, but we haven’t had to reiterate that in ages.

Chores - everyone has a dish night and the boys have 2.  The kids decide who handles what on garbage day. And I normally walk the dog, but they’re expected to when asked. That’s the bulk of routine stuff.  Of course they’re expected to help with whatever when help is requested.

Money- we don’t live in a place where one can walk around and use walk around money. Everything is planned and driven to.  We give them money as needed. Sometimes the younger ones do have a little cash because the older ones have paid them to do something for them.

We don’t have rules against rules, chores, or money, we’re just very ad hoc.

[Pawz4me]

I guess it depends on how you define terms, but --

Our rules were the basic stuff -- if you make a mess you clean it up, use your good manners, let us know where you are, if you're going to be out later than expected, etc. Basic living-in-a-family stuff that applied to all of us.

We never had assigned chores other than the boys were expected to make their beds, keep their bedrooms and bathroom reasonably tidy and help out wherever needed.

We never gave a set allowance but covered all needs and most wants. Ours never had excessive "wants" so it was never an issue.

[DawnM]

I don't know, I have done different things through the years and I have also observed a lot of others' parenting.   I think that what I have determined is that there is no set way to parent and kids turn out well in a variety of settings, maybe despite some of our bad parenting......😂

On the flip side, some kids don't turn out well, and if often has nothing to do with parenting.

It's a crap shoot.   The best you can do is show lots of love and aim for relationship over "correct" parenting, and hope for the best.

But to the original question.....we have done chores, and allowances, and various rules.    It ebbs and flows depending on the need.  

[Scarlett]

50 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Oh, and there’s technically a rule to not use the minivan windshield as a slide after 2 replacements in 2 weeks a decade ago, but we haven’t had to reiterate that in ages.

 

This made me laugh so hard.  🙂

[Wheres Toto]

35 minutes ago, DawnM said:

It's a crap shoot.   The best you can do is show lots of love and aim for relationship over "correct" parenting, and hope for the best.

 

I agree with this.   It's impossible to predict how kids will turn out.  Although I have seen the worst results in parents who were overly worried about being right and proving their authority, rather than concentrating on the relationship and staying connected.

We have few rules, some chores and no allowance but the kids get plenty of money from birthdays and holidays and can generally buy whatever they want/need at the time (within reason).  

[Kassia]

43 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

It's a crap shoot.   The best you can do is show lots of love and aim for relationship over "correct" parenting, and hope for the best.

 

I agree with this, too.  Every kid is so different and it feels like each child needs different parenting depending on their personality.  It doesn't seem like it's "one size fits all." 

We did minimal chores, no allowance, minimal rules.  Kids got money for birthdays and holidays but didn't spend much anyway until they were much older and had jobs by then.  

 

[Terabith]

We have had very few rules.  They were things like “Keep your tongue to yourself,” (as in licking, not talking) and “Don’t get foreseeable blood on the carpet.”  (If you want to play sword fighting, go outside.  Not that this has been an issue since the pandemic, because my kids are teens, but since the pandemic I have said things like, “We don’t want to go to the ER, so don’t be stupid.”  That one was directed towards my husband, I think.)

Very few chores, but often ask folks to do specific tasks.  I tried briefly to do pocket money for like a month and then gave up with the whole business because I never had the right amount of cash. 

[wintermom]

We have the 'no pocket money' here, but happily dh and I can loan cash from the Bank of DD as she's loaded! (teaching violin, dog and house sitting and getting paid in cash). 😅

[KungFuPanda]

My kids are grown and I think I turned out a couple of quality people. I had two rules: 

1.  Be safe

2. Be kind

It’s really cheating because you can apply those to everything. 
 

DH had three rules:

1. Don’t do dumb things

2. I don’t want to go to the hospital today

3. (NOBODY can remember what #3 was)

Until they were teens there was a no unsupervised eating in carpeted rooms rule. 
 

Chores were generally you do whatever job I assigned them that day. I found it much easier to get thing done if we had a time when EVERYONE did chores rather than assigning a specific recurring job and expecting a kid to manage the timing.  They just had money when they had it. Dd could make hers last indefinitely. Ds couldn’t STAND to have money and HAD to turn it into stuff, so he needed a little more guidance. 
 

I think our “method” was to closely observe our kids and make minor course corrections when necessary. 
 

ETA: I learned the hard way to schedule chore time right before a meal rather than right before a lesson. Somehow things magically got done faster. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by KungFuPanda

[J-rap]

For people who say no chores and no pocket money, how did you kids say, buy ice cream with their friends and such?  Just curious how that would work.

We had rules such as:  Clean up after yourselves, be home at a certain time, speak kindly to one another, if you're in an angry dispute with a sibling then sit down on the couch to talk about it in quieter voices and each person gets time to talk, manners like please and thank you, don't start eating your meal until everyone is seated (dinner only), clear your own dishes and rinse them (every meal), if the fuel gauge drops to 1/4 or below while you're driving then you need to fill it up with gas before coming home (we gave them each a credit card when they got their driver's license to be used for gas only), make sure you leave a clean car (pick up any trash/junk)... things like that.

They didn't have pocket money as in a free allowance, but they had home chores, some that earned them a little pocket money.  It was just basic upkeep stuff like emptying wastebaskets, shoveling snow, helping clean the kitchen after dinner, cleaning the cat litter box, helping with vacuuming, etc.  (Or course much simpler jobs when they were younger!)  But between 5 children it really didn't amount to much.  They could earn extra money if they chose by doing more major projects (clean the attic, clean the basement, wash the cars, thoroughly clean bathrooms, etc.).  

They all got part-time jobs when they were old enough, and that plus being busy teenagers meant we didn't expect them to do much in the way of house jobs anymore.

Edited February 11, 2022 by J-rap

[Carrie12345]

2 minutes ago, J-rap said:

For people who say no chores and no pocket money, how did you kids say, buy ice cream with their friends and such?  Just curious how that would work

i just give them the money needed for the thing I’ve given them permission and access to do.

It was different in the area I grew up in part-time. We had a little store I could walk to 10 times a day if I wanted to, and I was with my friends from early morning to late night.  My kids have to make specific plans and arrange transportation.  I would not drive them to get ice cream with friends multiple times a week.
And most not-overnight get togethers are at people’s houses or parks. No money needed.

[alisoncooks]

No chores - but I’ll ask for help taking out trash or tidying up occasionally. 

No pocket money - if they need money, I give them some (for getting snacks at the mall with friends) or they use birthday or Christmas money (for buying things they want). 

Rules - I mean, I guess? No shoes on the carpet, if you have to puke you should run to the bathroom, etc. The only serious one is: no phones in the room overnight. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by alisoncooks

[City Mouse]

I was never good at keeping up with a list or chart of rules, chores, or earned money, but I tried sometimes. I only have 2 (now adult) kids and they are 7yrs apart. That meant that any household tasks or even rules were different for each kid at any one time. Chores were whatever needed to be done at that moment. Around 13 or so, they each had a debit card, so allowance was an automatic monthly transfer. That Was something we could keep up with. 
 

[Carrie12345]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

This made me laugh so hard.  🙂

Glad someone could, lol.
My current minivan hasn’t needed a replacement in its 7 years. Knock on wood. It HAS had scratches from jean pocket studs or jacket zippers that showed up almost as soon as it came home.  No one has dared since that day. Mommy has a psycho mode.

[J-rap]

2 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

i just give them the money needed for the thing I’ve given them permission and access to do.

It was different in the area I grew up in part-time. We had a little store I could walk to 10 times a day if I wanted to, and I was with my friends from early morning to late night.  My kids have to make specific plans and arrange transportation.  I would not drive them to get ice cream with friends multiple times a week.
And most not-overnight get togethers are at people’s houses or parks. No money needed.

Ah I see.  I was thinking of that as pocket money, but I guess OP was perhaps meaning giving them a set amount of money each week to spend as they choose.  (Like an allowance.)

Yes, I'm sure it depends on the area you live in too.  Our kids grew up in a small town where everything was walkable, and they'd walk to the local swimming pool or the ice cream shop with their friends pretty regularly on hot summer days...things like that.

[Carrie12345]

2 minutes ago, J-rap said:

Ah I see.  I was thinking of that as pocket money, but I guess OP was perhaps meaning giving them a set amount of money each week to spend as they choose.  (Like an allowance.)

Yes, I'm sure it depends on the area you live in too.  Our kids grew up in a small town where everything was walkable, and they'd walk to the local swimming pool or the ice cream shop with their friends pretty regularly on hot summer days...things like that.

Yeah, it could partly be semantics.
We did have a period when we tried allowances, and it just led to kids begging to be driven to the store for chips or candy.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

Granted, my kids are 11, 9 and 6.

I don’t know that we have explicit rules.  Use nice words and keep your hands to yourself, but the 11 and 6 year old break those rules a thousand times a day.  The fighting between them is ridiculous.

Clean up any messes you make. That’s the big one, but that’s directed more to DH and he seems to forget it pretty frequently.

The only regular chore is it’s their responsibility to feed and water the dogs and the cat.  And my 11 year old is responsible for taking the trash can down to the road for trash pick up night.  I ask them to help out frequently and they do without complaining, but it’s more like, “Hey, I need the living room floor vaccumed and dishes put away, who wants to do what?”  
 

My parents were of the homeschool era where family rules were posted on the wall and there were highly scheduled chore charts for all kids. I’ve veered far away from that without even realizing.

My kids don’t get an allowance but when they want money they ask if there are any odd jobs, either at my house or grandparents’ or aunts. My 9 year old mops my sister in law’s whole(small) house once a week for $20 so she earns money that way, and someone in the family usually has an odd job they’re willing to pay for. The kids are money hoarders and only ever want to buy Pokémon cards, though.  This all may change as they get older.

[JustEm]

No set chores here. They just help out when asked, which is certainly daily but the tasks change depending on need in the moment. Most often they unload the dishwasher, quick clean up the living room before bed, brin laundry down, keep laundry moving, and hang laundry. But we all do those things as a family.

Rules, I can't think of a single set rule we have. I ask that they strive to speak kindly to everyone, which they usually do. And when they don't I help guide them towards more constructive ways to talk given the issue.

Pocket money, we do this on a biweekly basis from a set age but it is strictly to teach them about money management because neither my dh or I felt we got proper education on that. Dh was a huge spender when we married because that is the family he grew up in and I was a only spend on things you need because that is what I grew up in. But we didn't know much about saving, investing, budgeting, etc. And it would have saved us a lot of issues and we'd be farther ahead now if we had known better in our early twenties. My 13 and 9 year old have roughly $1000 saved each and have both expressed interest in learning to invest it this year. So far, I feel our approach is going to get them a good start into adulthood

[Slache]

I don't know about rules. I expect them to do the right thing and correct them when they're wrong. We also have a bedtime. I think those are rules.

We have chores. Daily lists that take 15 minutes and a weekly one that takes an hour.

I would love to give them pocket money regularly.

[Soror]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

I don't know, I have done different things through the years and I have also observed a lot of others' parenting.   I think that what I have determined is that there is no set way to parent and kids turn out well in a variety of settings, maybe despite some of our bad parenting......😂

On the flip side, some kids don't turn out well, and if often has nothing to do with parenting.

It's a crap shoot.   The best you can do is show lots of love and aim for relationship over "correct" parenting, and hope for the best.

But to the original question.....we have done chores, and allowances, and various rules.    It ebbs and flows depending on the need.  

ITA with that!

We have a chore list. I give allowances.

We have some rules. Not as many as a lot of hs'ers I know but more than others. I can't think of any offhand. 

Over the years things have changed. We started as chores for allowance. Dh still sees it that way but I see it more separate now. In practice it is the same.

Giving the kids allowance makes my life easier and gives them a chance to manage their own money and not have to ask me for every thing. I manage our finances, they manage theirs. If they want bigger things then they ask for extra jobs to do- of course that is not without limit as my funds are not unlimited. They also ask MIL for jobs to do too.

Having a chore chart means that I don't have to think about who should do what when. It has evolved over the yeras as kids have gotten older.

Now, once ds got a car and his own job he hasn't had many chores. Just pitching in here and there as needed. He doesn't get allowance anymore. He makes his own spending money.

Dd1 doesn't have many chores either now- but again she's not home much with being in PS and a busy teenager. She just started a very small PT job too. I'll phase out her allowance as she starts working more.

I'm not sure what will do if the younger 2 go to school too. If I don't work or just work PT I'll pick up more of the work as I'll be the one with the most time.

 

[Wheres Toto]

1 hour ago, J-rap said:

For people who say no chores and no pocket money, how did you kids say, buy ice cream with their friends and such?  Just curious how that would work.

 

If they are in a situation where they might want to spend some money, we will give them cash.   But it really doesn't come up much.  They need a ride anywhere they go and they are rarely just hanging around with friends.  There isn't anywhere for them to walk to around here. 

Ds is now attending our local CC three days a week.  We opened up a student bank account for him and deposited an amount of money so he'd have it if he needed it while on campus.  Even the vending machines will take a debit card so he has no need for cash, although I'm pretty sure he has some that he carries around (he occasionally gets cash for birthdays).  

[Lecka]

When I talk about rules, to be clear, my husband and I used to get in fights about whether or not it was time for kids to go to bed or if they should stay up and watch tv.  Like — long fights.  
 

It’s not what I consider a lot of rules, but we have an agreement now that our younger kids have a bedtime on weeknights but can stay up on weekends.  But one of those kids gets his sleep disrupted so he gets like an extra two hours on the weekend.  
 

I don’t consider it like “we have a lot of rules” but my husband and I are either going along with each other or fighting.

 

If you think of where our starting point was, we are doing a million times better than that.  
 

The marriage counselor we saw said that many household styles worked great for kids, when the parents were not fighting with each other all the time.  
 

He said the best household style for us would be the one where we didn’t have a “high level of conflict.”  

 

He did not take sides on any specific issue (like rules, chores, or pocket money).  
 

I think a lot of people have a default level of agreement that we did not have, and then we were fighting over things that other people do not fight about.  
 

We got in a huge, huge fight one time about whether or not a child should have the crust of his bread cut off.  
 

So it’s not like we have a rule about bread crusts, but we have to compromise on some level!  
 

Our marriage counselor could not believe our stupid fights, it was enough we thought we were having stupid fights also and wanted to change.  

[BlsdMama]

3 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

I guess it depends on how you define terms, but --

Our rules were the basic stuff -- if you make a mess you clean it up, use your good manners, let us know where you are, if you're going to be out later than expected, etc. Basic living-in-a-family stuff that applied to all of 

Yes I think there must be a definition. Surely you do have some ingrained rules? Don’t be a jerk, treat people with respect, shut the fridge and doors when you come in the house, don’t put shoes on the furniture, etc.?

 So if they have no chores, do you do everything for them? Truly, this concept leaves me flabbergasted. Our kids do their own laundry by ten. Part of chores and rules comes from 13 people lived in our house at once. People don’t like to live in a mess and chaos so there must be rules and chores to ensure some people don’t get overworked or burnt out. 
 

We don’t supply kids with money on a regular basis. If someone is going out with a friend we’ll give them spending money if they don’t have a job. With the exception of one, our kids aren’t big spenders. 

[EKS]

This is an interesting question because what, in the context of living in a family, separates a "rule" from more general family cultural norms?

I would argue that families set up a system of explicit rules only when the implicit ones, the norms, are being flouted.  There are two reasons that I can think of that a parent may think that rules aren't needed in their family.  (1) If you're lucky enough to have kids that go with the program, in that they adhere to the norms you've developed in your own family, it will look to you like rules aren't needed.  But they're there.  To see what they are, think about what sort of behavior your children would need to exhibit to trigger you to make some rules.  And (2) the more flexible your family norms are, the less likely you will be to need a system of rules to enforce them.

[Jean in Newcastle]

We had some “common sense” rules but they weren’t really stated that often. When the kids were little our parenting focused on keeping them safe and healthy. When they got older it focused on letting them make decisions that were age appropriate. I suppose we did have a rule to “listen to your parents “ but it wasn’t something that was trotted out.  But my kids did listen to us even if there were some energetic discussions sometimes about why we wanted the computer off etc.

I said on another thread that I did want “first time obedience “ with young children for safety reasons. But again- not used all the time and even my young children were savvy enough to pick up on the urgency in my voice if a car was coming towards them.
 

What we did have was routines. With an aspie and two kids with adhd we needed routines. Things like when to do homework would come down to routine for me. But routines were often tweaked. And sometimes ignored (though that was hard on my Aspie). Some chores were included in our family routines. 
 

No allowances. But both my kids were young entrepreneurs. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Jean in Newcastle
Typo

[TechWife]

I we had some rules. Common manners were taught (keep your lips closed when you chew, please & thank you, hold doors for the person behind you, don't put  your feet on a coffee table, normal table manners, general politeness). There was a "right way" and a "wrong way" to do some things. I wish I had been less rigid about some of it. It wasn't until my son was well into his teenage years when I realized that my responsibility in parenting didn't extend to expecting him to "obey all the way, right away, and with a happy heart," a phrase from a series of parenting classes we took. It took us years to realize the damage of those classes and if I could do it all over again, I wouldn't. My expectations would be more realistic, for both our son and for us as parents.

Pocket money/allowance - Nope. No regular pocket money. If he was going somewhere, I made sure he had what he needed appropriate to the situation.

Chores - no regular list, but helping when asked was expected and caring for own belongings & room were expected. I realized during the teen years that at some point, my standards for cleanliness are irrelevant for older teens & adults. They will decide what's important on their own at that point. I adopted that attitude around age 16 or 17.

 

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Carrie12345 said:

We did have a period when we tried allowances, and it just led to kids begging to be driven to the store for chips or candy.

This, so much, though not always chips and candy. 

Anytime something like this got to be too much, we canned it. 

I need to figure out something for my younger son. He doesn't have as many avenues for "bonus" chores to turn into money as his older brother did (partly physical reasons). It might be that I let him get a job at a younger age--I am not sure how we'll do this. My older son had a high need for deep pressure and heavy work, so that naturally translated into his doing hard labor (dismantling our bathroom when it needed remodeled--he and I did that together to save paying someone) that we'd pay for directly or indirectly. It's turned into skilled labor (installing flooring, electrical work, etc.). Sometimes he gets money, but sometimes he gets a pricey need met or an upgrade on something--we upgraded his bike when he was too young to drive but was starting to get hired at various places around the neighborhood to do yard work.

 

49 minutes ago, Soror said:

Giving the kids allowance makes my life easier and gives them a chance to manage their own money and not have to ask me for every thing. I manage our finances, they manage theirs. If they want bigger things then they ask for extra jobs to do- of course that is not without limit as my funds are not unlimited.

This is exactly why I want to figure something out for my younger son now that he's old enough to hang onto money for a few days without begging to go to the store!

6 minutes ago, EKS said:

This is an interesting question because what, in the context of living in a family, separates a "rule" from more general family cultural norms?

I would argue that families set up a system of explicit rules only when the implicit ones, the norms, are being flouted.  There are two reasons that I can think of that a parent may think that rules aren't needed in their family.  (1) If you're lucky enough to have kids that go with the program, in that they adhere to the norms you've developed in your own family, it will look to you like rules aren't needed.  But they're there.  To see what they are, think about what sort of behavior your children would need to exhibit to trigger you to make some rules.  And (2) the more flexible your family norms are, the less likely you will be to need a system of rules to enforce them.

This. 

Our rules come and go depending on the need. They have often been something that would seem absurd to others (there are only two places you're allowed to spit--in the sink and in the grass) due to having quirky kids, lol! 

Chores--we all work. They have a few set chores, but mostly it's about doing what needs to be done and dealing with their own stuff. When we moved to a new house, they did get some extra chores such as cleaning their bathroom. They helped with that in the old house, but they didn't have a bathroom that was just theirs. We have found that chores have strengthened executive functioning like nothing else, but we did them together for a long time, and even now, it's more about keeping the house livable than anything else. 

[EKS]

1 minute ago, kbutton said:

Our rules come and go depending on the need. They have often been something that would seem absurd to others (there are only two places you're allowed to spit--in the sink and in the grass) due to having quirky kids, lol! 

Ha!  Yes!  One of our rules was "no lurking."  

[Pawz4me]

49 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

Yes I think there must be a definition. Surely you do have some ingrained rules? Don’t be a jerk, treat people with respect, shut the fridge and doors when you come in the house, don’t put shoes on the furniture, etc.?

Most of those come under the heading of "good manners" or things that are learned through proper modeling, not things one needs rules for. Or at least not in our world. Like it would never, ever occur to me that one would have to teach a child to shut the fridge and house doors, much less to have rules about those things. It's just how things are done. Stuff like that certainly isn't something we ever needed to actively teach, let alone have rules about because our kids grew up from Day 1 seeing (and thus knowing) how those things are done.

Quote

 So if they have no chores, do you do everything for them? Truly, this concept leaves me flabbergasted. Our kids do their own laundry by ten. Part of chores and rules comes from 13 people lived in our house at once. People don’t like to live in a mess and chaos so there must be rules and chores to ensure some people don’t get overworked or burnt out.

No doubt your situation is much different due to family size. I personally have never seen any sense whatsoever in having everyone do their laundry. Such a huge waste of resources and wear and tear on the machine, IMO (plus truthfully I don't want anyone messing with my washer or dryer). Doing laundry for four people is easy peasy and NBD at all. When the boys were each getting ready to go off to college I spent about 15 minutes teaching them how to do laundry. Done. It ain't rocket science.

As far as chores--when I (or DH) saw something that needed doing we'd say "Son, I need you to [take the trash out or whatever]" and they did it. We are minimalists and our house is always tidy and certainly never anywhere approaching chaos (again, likely due to numbers as much as anything) so mostly it's just not an issue. I guess keeping things tidy is something else our boys learned by watching us, and I suppose our method taught them to look around and see what needed doing--and do it--rather than letting something go because it wasn't "their" assigned chore. When they got big enough/old enough DH would say "Son, come out here and let me show you how to mow the yard/run the weed eater/whatever." And they'd go learn and then do it when/if asked. Sometimes DH wanted to do it, and sometimes he was busy and so he'd ask one of them to do it. There are LOTS of ways to teach kids things w/o assigning specific, individual chores.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Pawz4me

[TechWife]

8 minutes ago, EKS said:

Ha!  Yes!  One of our rules was "no lurking."  

I wish I had thought of this one. My son has the talent of walking in my blind spot when we are together. Drives me batty.

[wendyroo]

1 minute ago, EKS said:

This is an interesting question because what, in the context of living in a family, separates a "rule" from more general family cultural norms?

I would argue that families set up a system of explicit rules only when the implicit ones, the norms, are being flouted.  There are two reasons that I can think of that a parent may think that rules aren't needed in their family.  (1) If you're lucky enough to have kids that go with the program, in that they adhere to the norms you've developed in your own family, it will look to you like rules aren't needed.  But they're there.  To see what they are, think about what sort of behavior your children would need to exhibit to trigger you to make some rules.  And (2) the more flexible your family norms are, the less likely you will be to need a system of rules to enforce them.

I agree. There is nothing like having a passel of non-neurotypical kids to clarify what your family norms, or even typical civilized behavior norms, are. When you start needing rules like "No shoving used tissues down the air vents", "No stabbing pencils through couch cushions", "If you throw your chair you will have to sit on the floor" and "Do not turn off appliances that Mom has turned on" (one of my children, no points for guessing which one, loves causing chaos by turning off the dryer, dishwasher, oven, etc when I have turned them on...nothing like noticing at dinner time that the chicken that is supposed to be done is cold and raw still 😒). These are all actual rules that are posted in my house.

Not that rules keep the children from doing these behaviors...they don't. But I have a triage system. The absolute most dangerous behaviors have to be prevented at all costs (power tools are behind two locks). Second tier behaviors are outlawed with posted rules ("No stepping on electronics"). This allows me to issue swift logical (but perhaps not natural) consequences which "cannot" be argued with because the rule is right there in black and white. All the less-significant maladaptive behaviors (screaming, interrupting, purposefully breaking pencils, smearing toothpaste on the counters, etc) don't even warrant "rules". There is simply no way I could stop the plethora of those types of behaviors, or even anticipate what maladaptive things the kids might do next (last week my 12 year old walked past two garbages to stick his used gum to the back of the dryer 🤨), so they are not even considered breaking a rule, but rather just situations that the kids need to "fix" through natural consequences, reimbursement or restitution.

We do have chores and a bit of pocket money...though one child almost always has to use his for destruction reimbursement.

[Jean in Newcastle]

9 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

I agree. There is nothing like having a passel of non-neurotypical kids to clarify what your family norms, or even typical civilized behavior norms, are. When you start needing rules like "No shoving used tissues down the air vents", "No stabbing pencils through couch cushions", "If you throw your chair you will have to sit on the floor" and "Do not turn off appliances that Mom has turned on" (one of my children, no points for guessing which one, loves causing chaos by turning off the dryer, dishwasher, oven, etc when I have turned them on...nothing like noticing at dinner time that the chicken that is supposed to be done is cold and raw still 😒). These are all actual rules that are posted in my house.

Not that rules keep the children from doing these behaviors...they don't. But I have a triage system. The absolute most dangerous behaviors have to be prevented at all costs (power tools are behind two locks). Second tier behaviors are outlawed with posted rules ("No stepping on electronics"). This allows me to issue swift logical (but perhaps not natural) consequences which "cannot" be argued with because the rule is right there in black and white. All the less-significant maladaptive behaviors (screaming, interrupting, purposefully breaking pencils, smearing toothpaste on the counters, etc) don't even warrant "rules". There is simply no way I could stop the plethora of those types of behaviors, or even anticipate what maladaptive things the kids might do next (last week my 12 year old walked past two garbages to stick his used gum to the back of the dryer 🤨), so they are not even considered breaking a rule, but rather just situations that the kids need to "fix" through natural consequences, reimbursement or restitution.

We do have chores and a bit of pocket money...though one child almost always has to use his for destruction reimbursement.

And this is where semantics comes into play. When I told my kids “don’t take apart the stair railings again “ that certainly was a rule that I hoped would be obeyed from then on out. Same with “don’t lick the cat”. But I never thought to include it on any “list of rules”.

[theelfqueen]

My children have a list of rules. All three of them could recite them. When they are going somewhere or something I don't say something like "Be Good or Drive Safe" I say Rule #1. 

 

Rule #1 Don't Be A Dumbass (this rule applies to everything and all other rules are covered by it) 

Rule #2 Don't Do Meth. (This dates to a time period where there were billboards on our drive to scouts that said things like "Talk to your kids about meth" and I'd turn to Oldest and say "Hey kid, don't do meth." And he would say "good talk, Mom." It applies to recreational drugs, over drinking, etc. Again might say to a young adult going to a party, "what's rule #2? ")

Rule #3 Stay in School /Mom is probably right (alternate rule dates to when we pulled kids out of school to homeschool). 

Rule #4 Don't  Set Yourself on Fire (seems obvious. Required clarification.)

Rule #5 Don't Give People Shellshock 

Edited to add - art was a gift from DIL, hangs in our school room/office.

Edited February 11, 2022 by theelfqueen

[mommyoffive]

30 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Most of those come under the heading of "good manners" or things that are learned through proper modeling, not things one needs rules for. Or at least not in our world. Like it would never, ever occur to me that one would have to teach a child to shut the fridge and house doors, much less to have rules about those things. It's just how things are done. Stuff like that certainly isn't something we ever needed to actively teach, let alone have rules about because our kids grew up from Day 1 seeing (and thus knowing) how those things are done.

No doubt your situation is much different due to family size. I personally have never seen any sense whatsoever in having everyone do their laundry. Such a huge waste of resources and wear and tear on the machine, IMO (plus truthfully I don't want anyone messing with my washer or dryer). Doing laundry for four people is easy peasy and NBD at all. When the boys were each getting ready to go off to college I spent about 15 minutes teaching them how to do laundry. Done. It ain't rocket science.

As far as chores--when I (or DH) saw something that needed doing we'd say "Son, I need you to [take the trash out or whatever]" and they did it. We are minimalists and our house is always tidy and certainly never anywhere approaching chaos (again, likely due to numbers as much as anything) so mostly it's just not an issue. I guess keeping things tidy is something else our boys learned by watching us, and I suppose our method taught them to look around and see what needed doing--and do it--rather than letting something go because it wasn't "their" assigned chore. When they got big enough/old enough DH would say "Son, come out here and let me show you how to mow the yard/run the weed eater/whatever." And they'd go learn and then do it when/if asked. Sometimes DH wanted to do it, and sometimes he was busy and so he'd ask one of them to do it. There are LOTS of ways to teach kids things w/o assigning specific, individual chores.

I don't find this to be true.  My family is bigger than yours, but not as big as Blsd's .  My older kids do their laundry and it doesn't put any more wear and tear on the machine than if we were all just blending loads.  They have their own hampers and run full loads.  Other than teaching them how to do laundry, which sure you could wait until they go to college.  I think it is easier in the sorting phase if everyone has their own load.    I like them knowing how to do their laundry.  It gives them confidence knowing how to do one more thing, they get better at taking care of their clothes and stains, and of course it takes work off of me.

My kids just like to do things for themselves.  My ds just spent an day cleaning my entire van, which even though I grab trash out of it once a week, was disgusting.  He was not asked to do it at all.  He just likes to do stuff.  He will just do all the yardwork, shoveling, walking dogs, fixing things and putting things together, and on an on.  He just put in a new toilet with dh over the weekend.  

[Arcadia]

No chores. Our housework is very minimal since we live in a small condo. Kids sort their own laundry, wash their own cups and bowls/plates, and sometimes cook.

No rules other than the usual manners/behavior type rules.

Kids had pocket money since they were elementary school age. Their pocket money is their fun money to spend at the library’s cafe. It is more for them to learn how much things cost and which library’s cafe has the cheapest items (coffee, hot cocoa, cookie, instant cup noodles) as well as see inflation in action. They usually don’t spend their pocket money though and the amount is more like $5 each time we go to the library to meet their chinese tutor. 

[Pawz4me]

4 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

I don't find this to be true.  My family is bigger than yours, but not as big as Blsd's .  My older kids do their laundry and it doesn't put any more wear and tear on the machine than if we were all just blending loads.  They have their own hampers and run full loads.  Other than teaching them how to do laundry, which sure you could wait until they go to college.  I think it is easier in the sorting phase if everyone has their own load.    I like them knowing how to do their laundry.  It gives them confidence knowing how to do one more thing, they get better at taking care of their clothes and stains, and of course it takes work off of me.

My kids just like to do things for themselves.  My ds just spent an day cleaning my entire van, which even though I grab trash out of it once a week, was disgusting.  He was not asked to do it at all.  He just likes to do stuff.  He will just do all the yardwork, shoveling, walking dogs, fixing things and putting things together, and on an on.  He just put in a new toilet with dh over the weekend.  

Note I also said "we are minimalists." None of us alone would have had enough clothing to make a full load--even if we (heaven forbid) threw everything in together w/o sorting--before we ran out of clean stuff to wear. So if I had wanted the boys to do their own laundry efficiently and w/o wasting water and electricity and putting tons of extra wear and tear on the machines I would have had to spend significantly more money on clothing, wasted lots of my time shopping more, etc. To me having that many clothes is a huge waste of money and effort, especially with still growing kids. I never saw the point of it. But other families choose to own more clothing, and it's really okay to "do you."  

[Pam in CT]

Eh.  God sent me two kids who didn't need "rules," only pretty-occasional very-gentle reminders.

And one kid who was wholly impervious to rules or carrots or sticks.

I'm very glad I got this mix: I expect I otherwise would have wrongly attributed the calm easy time of the two, with my own "system."

When it was nothing of the kind.

 

[mommyoffive]

14 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Note I also said "we are minimalists." None of us alone would have had enough clothing to make a full load--even if we (heaven forbid) threw everything in together w/o sorting--before we ran out of clean stuff to wear. So if I had wanted the boys to do their own laundry efficiently and w/o wasting water and electricity and putting tons of extra wear and tear on the machines I would have had to spend significantly more money on clothing, wasted lots of my time shopping more, etc. To me having that many clothes is a huge waste of money and effort, especially with still growing kids. I never saw the point of it. But other families choose to own more clothing, and it's really okay to "do you."  

That is pretty amazing.  Honestly we couldn't ever do that.  We live in an area that has 4 seasons sometimes you need different clothes all in one day.  They are in different sports that require different outfits.  I realize another reason I hate winter, so much extra laundry.  Sweatshirts, layers, pants, socks.  Each person just produces so much laundry.   None of us could have such little amount of laundry to not fill the washer.  

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

Most of those come under the heading of "good manners" or things that are learned through proper modeling, not things one needs rules for. Or at least not in our world. Like it would never, ever occur to me that one would have to teach a child to shut the fridge and house doors, much less to have rules about those things. It's just how things are done. Stuff like that certainly isn't something we ever needed to actively teach, let alone have rules about because our kids grew up from Day 1 seeing (and thus knowing) how those things are done.

 I guess keeping things tidy is something else our boys learned by watching us, and I suppose our method taught them to look around and see what needed doing--and do it--rather than letting something go because it wasn't "their" assigned chore. When they got big enough/old enough DH would say "Son, come out here and let me show you how to mow the yard/run the weed eater/whatever." And they'd go learn and then do it when/if asked. Sometimes DH wanted to do it, and sometimes he was busy and so he'd ask one of them to do it. There are LOTS of ways to teach kids things w/o assigning specific, individual chores.

Laundry aside since we’ve had entire threads about that…

I take major issue with your because (now bolder by me). Plenty of us model, and plenty of kids need more than that.

I had this school of thought until I met my kids. They need more. At times, they have needed professional help even. It doesn’t mean I’ve failed to model and teach. I would argue I’ve likely had to model and teach things that would never even occur to you. I am not alone in this. People who meet my older son now would likely think he came pre-programmed because he’s amazing. He observed and mimicked behavior in great detail. He still needed enormous help integrating everyday skills into his life. 

Be glad your kids were ABLE to catch all of this. 

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

I wish I had thought of this one. My son has the talent of walking in my blind spot when we are together. Drives me batty.

Ha! I have one who does this too!

We had a lot of self-awareness training that directly related to “place in space,” and I often started with “if you ever hope to drive a car I own, you need to learn ______.” The two biggies have been to go through narrow spaces and doors one person at a time and to look behind you before backing up/walking backwards.

[Pawz4me]

Just now, kbutton said:

Laundry aside since we’ve had entire threads about that…

I take major issue with your because (now bolder by me). Plenty of us model, and plenty of kids need more than that.

I had this school of thought until I met my kids. They need more. At times, they have needed professional help even. It doesn’t mean I’ve failed to model and teach. I would argue I’ve likely had to model and teach things that would never even occur to you. I am not alone in this. People who meet my older son now would likely think he came pre-programmed because he’s amazing. He observed and mimicked behavior in great detail. He still needed enormous help integrating everyday skills into his life. 

Be glad your kids were ABLE to catch all of this. 

Ha! I have one who does this too!

We had a lot of self-awareness training that directly related to “place in space,” and I often started with “if you ever hope to drive a car I own, you need to learn ______.” The two biggies have been to go through narrow spaces and doors one person at a time and to look behind you before backing up/walking backwards.

Oh please. I have a spectrum kiddo. I could write a book.

But this thread is asking for our own personal way of doing things, what worked for us. And that's what I posted. My family's own way of doing things. Note my frequent use of words like "we" and "our." What worked for us. I don't believe I ever said everyone (or anyone) should do things the same way.

[EKS]

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

Most of those come under the heading of "good manners" or things that are learned through proper modeling, not things one needs rules for. Or at least not in our world. Like it would never, ever occur to me that one would have to teach a child to shut the fridge and house doors, much less to have rules about those things. It's just how things are done.

Norms.  These are the unwritten rules of society, and they are much more powerful than explicit rules--for most people.  They are the reason society functions at all. 

Unfortunately, not all children are wired to go with the program.  You can't understand just how exhausting such a child is until you've dealt with one yourself.

[Jean in Newcastle]

8 minutes ago, EKS said:

Norms.  These are the unwritten rules of society, and they are much more powerful than explicit rules--for most people.  They are the reason society functions at all. 

Unfortunately, not all children are wired to go with the program.  You can't understand just how exhausting such a child is until you've dealt with one yourself.

Having to explain the "whys" behind norms can be quite the mental exercise.  Because not all societies accept the same norms.  And sometimes it's boiled down to "it's a bit arbitrary but this is how to fit into this society in this country." 

[BlsdMama]

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

Most of those come under the heading of "good manners" or things that are learned through proper modeling, not things one needs rules for. Or at least not in our world. Like it would never, ever occur to me that one would have to teach a child to shut the fridge and house doors, much less to have rules about those things. It's just how things are done. Stuff like that certainly isn't something we ever needed to actively teach, let alone have rules about because our kids grew up from Day 1 seeing (and thus knowing) how those things are done.

No doubt your situation is much different due to family size. I personally have never seen any sense whatsoever in having everyone do their laundry. Such a huge waste of resources and wear and tear on the machine, IMO (plus truthfully I don't want anyone messing with my washer or dryer). Doing laundry for four people is easy peasy and NBD at all. When the boys were each getting ready to go off to college I spent about 15 minutes teaching them how to do laundry. Done. It ain't rocket science.

As far as chores--when I (or DH) saw something that needed doing we'd say "Son, I need you to [take the trash out or whatever]" and they did it. We are minimalists and our house is always tidy and certainly never anywhere approaching chaos (again, likely due to numbers as much as anything) so mostly it's just not an issue. I guess keeping things tidy is something else our boys learned by watching us, and I suppose our method taught them to look around and see what needed doing--and do it--rather than letting something go because it wasn't "their" assigned chore. When they got big enough/old enough DH would say "Son, come out here and let me show you how to mow the yard/run the weed eater/whatever." And they'd go learn and then do it when/if asked. Sometimes DH wanted to do it, and sometimes he was busy and so he'd ask one of them to do it. There are LOTS of ways to teach kids things w/o assigning specific, individual chores.

Thank you for clarifying. I’d say, however, your kids DO have chores. They’re just not specific and assigned - huge difference. We intentionally do not have assigned chores because we never wanted to foster the idea that they did the minimally assigned work so they were done. We wanted everyone to learn to “see a need, meet a need,” so to speak. 
 

Do realize there are MANY households in which kids are never asked to pitch in. It boggles my mind. Sometimes because Mom is the only one who can do it “right” or because there is too much push back. 

[chocolate-chip chooky]

7 hours ago, Quill said:

Few rules, specific chores when my kids were young but my youngest mostly didn’t have them, pocket money for the first two kids for maybe five years, then it stopped. 

With the pocket money thing, it became an issue because I always had to go to the bank and get specific denominations. So I made it a monthly allowance; then I just phased it out. By then, my kids were earning some money themselves. 
 

Chores: I was very deliberate about that for a few years when my two oldest kids were young but I would always have to write out their job cards every week. So that died out because I started just telling them verbally what I wanted them to do and they did it. 
 

We also had a screen time token system at one point for the two older kids. I did actually think that was a good idea and I liked how they had to think about what they wanted to do with screens rather than just mindlessly doing Neopets for five hours, but that one also died out because it was something I had to constantly monitor - had they spent their tokens yet today? What about when they were at a friend’s house? What about online stuff I needed them to  do? Or family movie night? The screen token thing was long gone before the pandemic, but it seems absolutely laughable *since* the pandemic, as screen usage became vital for us all. 
 

The thing I have thought I’m pretty different about as a parent (than many others) is that  my kids have very rarely had a standard “punishment” for bad choices. I just don’t do power plays with my kids. If there is a problem, let’s work it out, let’s discuss it like mature people. I’m not doing something arbitrary like taking phones or computers away. Maybe I just got lucky but it seemed to work as a parenting philosophy; my two YA seem to be fine humans and my remaining teen seems on track. So we’ll see. 

 

I should have added this to my 'I don't do' list - punishments. I've never punished any of my three children, in 28+ years of parenting. 

[chocolate-chip chooky]

5 hours ago, wintermom said:

We have the 'no pocket money' here, but happily dh and I can loan cash from the Bank of DD as she's loaded! (teaching violin, dog and house sitting and getting paid in cash). 😅

We have a bank of DD too. We once borrowed $6000AU from one child, so that we could pay for urgent cat surgery. The loan was for about 3 days, while a bank transfer was processing. She kindly didn't charge interest 🙂 

[chocolate-chip chooky]

5 hours ago, J-rap said:

For people who say no chores and no pocket money, how did you kids say, buy ice cream with their friends and such?  Just curious how that would work.

 

This sort of situation really hasn't occurred that often. My kids would usually see their friends at each others' houses. On the odd occasion that they'd go to a movie, then I'd give a suitable amount of money that would cover the movie ticket + snack. Truly never an issue at all. My kids would offer to give back any left over $, and I'd always say don't worry. 

Pre-pandemic, two of my girls would go to the movies together reasonably regularly (maybe 2 or 3 times a year). The eldest (who had an income) and I would alternate who would pay for the whole thing (tickets and snacks for both girls). It worked just fine. Again, no issues ever.