Soccer Initiation? Why does this feel wrong to me?

[SKL]

PS the event is tonight, and the coach says every underclassman is participating, so there is no changing the original plan.

I have the OK from the coach to drop my kid off at the school when the others arrive.

I will not tell my dd about this until after tonight's soccer practice, so she doesn't spoil it for the other girls.

Edited August 17, 2021 by SKL

[Annie G]

6 minutes ago, SKL said:

PS the event is tonight, and the coach says every underclassman is participating, so there is no changing the original plan.

I have the OK from the coach to drop my kid off at the school when the others arrive.

I will not tell my dd about this until after tonight's soccer practice, so she doesn't spoil it for the other girls.

This sounds good- she gets to participate without the kidnapping scenario or driving with teenagers late at night.  If anyone razzes her for wimping out on the kidnapping, maybe she’ll point out it was probably safer for the kidnappers - and point out her taekwondo belt level…

Hope she has a fun time!

[momto3innc]

Truly, I see no way the administration of the school knows the details of this. No way. Liability issues are insane.

[cintinative]

This just rubs me the wrong way, even with your updates from the coach.  There is either extreme naivete on the coach's part or something is not being shared that should be. 

A coach that thinks it is okay for teens to drive other teens at 1:30 is likely to be too permissive in other areas that would be of concern. I seriously, seriously doubt the school knows anything.  

So basically the coach told you all the underclassmen are going?  I suspect that.  I can't believe you are the only parent who thinks this plan is wonky and maybe even unsafe.

[teachermom2834]

Here there are laws against teens driving past 10:00 or 11:00 pm and also teens driving with more than one passenger. So this would violate multiple laws here. There is some sort of  exception for school events but I don’t think this qualifies and I think that only applies to the time but not to the number of passengers. Most parents I know don’t enforce those rules-which drives me kind of nuts. I figure those laws give me cover for a lot of things I would say “no” to. 
 

Also, some schools here have rules about teens driving others to school events. Our 4-H club won’t allow kids to ride together with a teen driver without permission slips from both parents. This seems odd as the 4-H club isn’t involved with the transportation for any of the other kids. My oldest had a baseball coach with a personal rule that the players could not drive themselves to away games. They needed to be with a parent or on a team van. Both the 4-H and the baseball coach had their rules because of tragedies that had occurred in the past 😕 So even without official laws or even enforceable rules, many adults have come to the conclusion that teens driving each other isn’t something they want on their watch. So, yeah, multiple teens in the middle of the night geared up being silly is something many reasonable people would prohibit. So it does call into question the judgement of all involved in the planning.

 

[Laurie]

10 hours ago, SKL said:

 

I was inclined to give permission for my daughter to participate in this, as she has not really made friends at soccer, and it's one of the reasons she gives for not really enjoying the activity.  I figured a night dedicated to girl bonding could only help matters.  

 

The bonding could backfire.  It did for me when this happened to me in high school.  The other girls "kidnapped" us from our classrooms, so at least it wasn't in the middle of the night!   We were driven around to other houses, blindfolded (with a kotex pad in a nylon stocking) the entire time, and made to do things like eat mystery foods that were fed to us on spoons, made to crawl through vacant lots, etc.  

I was so upset by what was happening that I said I was unwell and needed to go home.  Thank goodness my mother picked me up at one of the homes so I never found out what other bonding/fun activities were going to happen later.   I quit the group shortly after this lovely initiation because I really hated the girls who did this to us, and I had no desire to spend any more time with them.   If humiliating others is considered fun, goodbye!  

Maybe the girls at your daughter's school really have only fun activities planned, but unfortunately I've lost trust in people doing/meaning what they say.   And for sure,  I would tell your daughter all about it ahead of time!  And I would have no part in letting people "break into" my house in the middle of the night to "kidnap" my kid.  NO WAY should this be promoted as a fun/acceptable activity!!!

[EKS]

Maybe this was already mentioned, but does anyone else think that the kidnapping aspect of this takes it into hazing territory? 

[SKL]

1 minute ago, EKS said:

Maybe this was already mentioned, but does anyone else think that the kidnapping aspect of this takes it into hazing territory? 

The upperclassmen are also going to give the underclassmen costumes to wear.  Supposedly holiday oriented, e.g. Santa / Easter Bunny themes.  Sounds benign, but I could still see it getting uncomfortable.

[vonfirmath]

7 minutes ago, SKL said:

The upperclassmen are also going to give the underclassmen costumes to wear.  Supposedly holiday oriented, e.g. Santa / Easter Bunny themes.  Sounds benign, but I could still see it getting uncomfortable.

I thought I remembered AHG having rules about no initiation with their no cliques, etc.

But I can't find it

But all this discussion just makes me firmly think that initiation is NOT a good idea.  Team Building Parties are great. Really anything they want to do together. But anything that is meant to invite new members into a group needs to be carefully vetted or it too easily gets into hazing even if not meant that way in the beginning!

[Ivey]

8 minutes ago, EKS said:

Maybe this was already mentioned, but does anyone else think that the kidnapping aspect of this takes it into hazing territory? 

Absolutely. I would consider any type of "initiation" event where there is a power differential between the participants to be a form of hazing. The kidnapping aspect only serves to give power to the older girls and embarrass the younger ones. These types of events were the norm when I was a teen, but none of my kids' schools, sports clubs, etc. have allowed them. 

[wathe]

45 minutes ago, EKS said:

Maybe this was already mentioned, but does anyone else think that the kidnapping aspect of this takes it into hazing territory? 

 

43 minutes ago, SKL said:

The upperclassmen are also going to give the underclassmen costumes to wear.  Supposedly holiday oriented, e.g. Santa / Easter Bunny themes.  Sounds benign, but I could still see it getting uncomfortable.

 

14 minutes ago, Ivey said:

Absolutely. I would consider any type of "initiation" event where there is a power differential between the participants to be a form of hazing. The kidnapping aspect only serves to give power to the older girls and embarrass the younger ones. These types of events were the norm when I was a teen, but none of my kids' schools, sports clubs, etc. have allowed them. 

 

This is hazing.  Purposely causing discomfort (sleep deprivation), embarrassment (being given costumes to wear), harrassment (surprised awake at night in own home, kidnapped), regardless of member's willingness to participate, in a group context with a power differential.

 

[Annie G]

2 minutes ago, wathe said:

 

 

 

This is hazing.  Purposely causing discomfort (sleep deprivation), embarrassment (being given costumes to wear), harrassment (surprised awake at night in own home, kidnapped), regardless of member's willingness to participate, in a group context with a power differential.

 

Agree. This isn’t team building. 

[Faith-manor]

15 minutes ago, wathe said:

 

 

 

This is hazing.  Purposely causing discomfort (sleep deprivation), embarrassment (being given costumes to wear), harrassment (surprised awake at night in own home, kidnapped), regardless of member's willingness to participate, in a group context with a power differential.

 

This. And no way would my kid be participating in the sport under a coach who thinks this is okay. Nope.

[Corraleno]

14 minutes ago, wathe said:

 

 

 

This is hazing.  Purposely causing discomfort (sleep deprivation), embarrassment (being given costumes to wear), harrassment (surprised awake at night in own home, kidnapped), regardless of member's willingness to participate, in a group context with a power differential.

 

I would also be concerned that part of the hazing is going to be filming the kids' freaked-out reactions (and potentially embarassing pajamas, messy hair, zit cream. etc.) and then posting the embarrassing videos online for everyone to see.

[Faith-manor]

3 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I would also be concerned that part of the hazing is going to be filming the kids' freaked-out reactions (and potentially embarassing pajamas, messy hair, zit cream. etc.) and then posting the embarrassing videos online for everyone to see.

Oy! I hadn't thought about that. Yikes, that is a very real possibility. 😠

[Murphy101]

I have a fat wad of hell no for all of this craziness.

covid

coaches being alone with athletes at any time

trivializing kidnapping like it’s a fun thing  

Honestly I’d encourage my kid to leave any team that thinks like this bc I would have a really difficult time trusting those coaches.  It should be reported to someone in authority at the school.  There’s zero chance any of these plans are compliant with even the most basic of safety policies.

1:30am visitors wouldn’t bother me necessarily. It’s not the norm at my house but it isn’t completely unusual either. 

[MEmama]

18 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I would also be concerned that part of the hazing is going to be filming the kids' freaked-out reactions (and potentially embarassing pajamas, messy hair, zit cream. etc.) and then posting the embarrassing videos online for everyone to see.

Oh man, I didn’t even think of that. It seems totally unavoidable though. 
 

This idea has gone from bad to really bad to even worse.

No way in heck would my kid be participating (not that he would have wanted to, either as the new freshman nor the upperclassman).

OP, have you contacted the athletic director and principal/school administrators? I think the parents have a responsibility to make sure the school knows what is going on (surely they don’t) and that they absolve themselves of liability. I just can’t believe middle of the night, school sanctioned hazing is encouraged.

[pinball]

@SKL

Did anyone from the team bring up the word “kidnapping?” I didn’t see you use in your first post but then others started to use it.

Im glad you know and respect your DD enough that she would not like the surprise aspect of this and you’re taking steps to have her participate on your and her terms.

[Shoeless]

This event also has the potential to backfire on the senior girls, too. They don't know the people whose homes they will be in. I would not want my child wandering around the home of a stranger at 1:30am, and potentially wandering into the wrong bedroom. 

One of my relatives keeps their hand gun in a fingerprint safe near the bed. Groggy state plus "intruder" in the house? This could go very, very bad. 

I am betting the administration has no idea the extent of the plans for this event. I'd be emailing and calling. Find a different way to have fun together, girls.

[Faith-manor]

10 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

This event also has the potential to backfire on the senior girls, too. They don't know the people whose homes they will be in. I would not want my child wandering around the home of a stranger at 1:30am, and potentially wandering into the wrong bedroom. 

One of my relatives keeps their hand gun in a fingerprint safe near the bed. Groggy state plus "intruder" in the house? This could go very, very bad. 

I am betting the administration has no idea the extent of the plans for this event. I'd be emailing and calling. Find a different way to have fun together, girls.

This. Guns, unsecured, all over the place in my area. Scary, scary, scary

[AngieC]

Neither of my kids have ever been a part of anything like this, but this sounds similar to what a local high school did with their high school cheerleading squad - the girls were "kidnapped" late at night and then did activities all night long.  

They never went to the school it was all out and about and eventually at someone's house and there were parents involved in chaperoning.  As far as I know from the parent I was friends with whose daughter was involved, all of the kids loved it.  It was not a mean-spirited activity, but a team bonding activity.  Her daugter was involved in it, as a participant and then a planner, all 4 years of high school, so it was never off the rails to the extent that they did away with the event.

[Idalou]

5 hours ago, Katy said:

There's several movies that do something similar, as well as a whole episode of Gilmore Girls. My friends did something similar in high school, although it was for a birthday not a school thing.  I really don't understand what the big deal is.

I did this, as a do-er and a receiver, for 4 years, for band class. Except it would happen closer to 3 or 4 am, and we'd go from the homes to the school and then on to a donut shop or IHOP. My parents didn't mind us being driven by older teens, but they did want to know their names and parents'names. After 9th grade, everyone in class seemed to be familiar enough with all the families. 

Most, maybe all the girls knew in advance, in order to have combed hair and cute pajamas. The boys were another story. 

In this case, I'd tell the girl and let her ride with them, if she wanted. Getting driven by mommy might not be the best. But I do understand parents having gut feelings, especially whether you are or are  not the helicopter type to begin with.I would also wants to know names and address of the home where the tents will be. Will you be picking her up at a certain time?

I can't imagine waking up in the middle of the night and then being expected to eat lukewarm pizza at the crack of dawn. Shows my age!

 

Last edit! I wouldn't like the costume part. I thought the fun was supposed to be going out in the middle of the night in your pajamas. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Idalou

[Faith-manor]

In Michigan, 16 and 17 year olds cannot drive after 10 pm unless going to or from a job, cannot have more than one other passenger under 21 in the car unless accompanied by a parent or guardian, and has to be level 2 licensed and not level 1. So this would be against the law here unless the girls driving were 18 or older.

[Faith-manor]

Just now, Faith-manor said:

In Michigan, 16 and 17 year olds cannot drive after 10 pm unless going to or from a job and authorized school activity verified by a school administrator, cannot have more than one other passenger under 21 in the car unless accompanied by a parent or guardian, and has to be level 2 licensed and not level 1. So this would be against the law here unless the girls driving were 18 or older.

 

[Farrar]

I really do think there are ways to do a fun "initiation" for new members of a group that create bonding and do feel like there's some surprise and some fun aspects without it turning into hazing. It's really down to a lack of creativity that these girls have chosen things that absolutely sound like hazing.

When I was in college, there were some dorm-based traditions like this. One was "dis" orientation, but it was basically just that the upperclass girls taught us all the drinking songs and some other things that I can't even recall. I seem to remember there was ice cream. And there was another thing where your door got papered over, but all you had to do was push through the newspaper and then you were adopted by an upperclass girl and given little gifts all week. 

Everything about this screams power imbalance. Like, if *everyone* puts on funny outfits together, then that's one thing, but when the older kids with more power force the younger kids to do it, then that's hazing because there's a power imbalance. And anything that could be legitimately scary, like being woken up in the middle of the night and not knowing why is definitely hazing. 

[Arcadia]

Reminds me of hazing and frat initiations gone wrong.

After the Audrie Potts case, I think it’s harder to hope nothing goes wrong.

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2015/03/28/audrie-pott-do-boys-share-blame-for-saratoga-teens-suicide/
”The civil trial expected to start next month was brought by Audrie’s parents and is supposed to determine who is to blame for the 15-year-old’s death. But perhaps more illuminating than the accusations of depraved boys and irresponsible parents will be the first-person testimonials about the complicated world of teenagers navigating a culture of drinking and drugs, sex and cellphones, body image and bullying, and bad behavior.

In a deposition before the trial, one of the male teens, who is now a senior at Saratoga High, already admitted that well before they assaulted Audrie at a drunken house party in Saratoga, he and one of the other boys had been sharing photos of naked classmates — since middle school.

It’s a world largely kept secret from parents — some with backgrounds of divorce and drama — who all want to believe they’re good parents raising good kids. 

“I think there will be lessons,” said Audrie’s father, Larry Pott, of the pending trial. “I hope so.”

Since Audrie’s death, in September 2012, her story became a cautionary tale for the nation of what can happen when humiliation and hopelessness collide. It’s a theme that has only repeated itself since her death, with headlines across the country from high schools to college campuses of girls drinking too much and boys taking advantage.”

[Garga]

When I turned 13 and was at a new school, my mother suggested that I have a surprise birthday party with the girls in my class. She would tell the girls’ parents about the party, but the girls themselves wouldn’t be told until it was time for the party to start. And then the parents would bring them to my house for the party. 

All of the girls hated it. It was in the middle of the day, but they all hated it.

Maybe they just didn’t like me (it was middle school after all when everyone was always miserable), but they did NOT like being surprised by the get-together and not knowing what was going on.

There were no costumes, it wasn’t 1:30 in the morning, but they still did not like the surprise element at all. I was pretty embarrassed by the whole event.

It sounds like fun for the person throwing the party, but it isn’t so much for for the participants.

I’d be so ticked if I had to deal with this. Actually, I’d tell my sons about it and they would immediately say, “No. I’m not going,” and that would be that. They reeeeally hate suprises.

[Katy]

3 hours ago, MEmama said:

Oh man, I didn’t even think of that. It seems totally unavoidable though. 
 

This idea has gone from bad to really bad to even worse.

No way in heck would my kid be participating (not that he would have wanted to, either as the new freshman nor the upperclassman).

OP, have you contacted the athletic director and principal/school administrators? I think the parents have a responsibility to make sure the school knows what is going on (surely they don’t) and that they absolve themselves of liability. I just can’t believe middle of the night, school sanctioned hazing is encouraged.

Of course it’s avoidable.  You buy her cute new jammies and lipgloss and give her a heads up. And make sure your cell phone is on so she can call you if she needs rescued. 

I thought I was strict compared to my friends but between this and the thread about giving parents a heads up that 14 year olds were unsupervised at a mall in the middle of the afternoon… apparently I’m extremely permissive.  This is assuming it’s legal for teens to drive other teens in the state of course.

[SKL]

29 minutes ago, Katy said:

Of course it’s avoidable.  You buy her cute new jammies and lipgloss and give her a heads up. And make sure your cell phone is on so she can call you if she needs rescued. 

I thought I was strict compared to my friends but between this and the thread about giving parents a heads up that 14 year olds were unsupervised at a mall in the middle of the afternoon… apparently I’m extremely permissive.  This is assuming it’s legal for teens to drive other teens in the state of course.

The driving part isn't legal.

I thought about just having her ready by the door when they come, but the illegal driving thing in the middle of the night with a car full of teens ... I chose to be the adult in this situation.

I will find out soon what my daughter thinks of all this.  😛  She's in a pissy mood to begin with so ....

We can always blame our dog.  He's been barking his head off all day, so it isn't much of a stretch to say he might eat people if surprised in the middle of the night.

[Moonhawk]

My high school had the seniors kidnap the freshmen at the beginning of the year. They brought us to school early on a Monday and were supposed to bond with us with a pancake breakfast.  

My parents did not tell me about this, though my mom had my sister talk to me on the phone and ask me to wear a bra to bed for that night as an experiment about something or other that she couldn’t do herself. 

Being woken up by girls in my room who I didn’t know was disorienting to say the least. 0/10 would do again. The only reason I knew i wasn’t in danger is because i half-heard the front door being open from the inside (distinctive sound on my parents door) and the light in the hallway was on. The girls did give me a minute to pull on more respectable pajamas and brush my teeth before leaving. But the hour drive to school was mostly just listening to them talk about senior stuff and silently freak out. “It must be okay because my parents let it happen, right??”. And it was okay. just not enjoyable.

And they didn’t make good pancakes, lol. 

Thanks for finding an alternative for your daughter so she can participate but not be kidnapped. If it was earlier at night or later in the morning i could see letting them pick her up but letting her know beforehand, but that time of night is crazy talk. 

Eta: 4 years later i was the senior kidnapper. my victims were pretold by their parents i think, or at least the parent woke the kid up and told them to put on their shoes and get in the car outside to go to school. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Moonhawk

[SKL]

3 hours ago, pinball said:

@SKL

Did anyone from the team bring up the word “kidnapping?” I didn’t see you use in your first post but then others started to use it.

Im glad you know and respect your DD enough that she would not like the surprise aspect of this and you’re taking steps to have her participate on your and her terms.

Nobody said "kidnap" as far as I know.  But they did say they want to wake the girls up, and they want it to be a surprise.

I don't really think my kid would believe she's being kidnapped, but it would annoy her intensely to have her privacy invaded like that, and to be unable to decide for herself how she wanted to prepare for a social outing.  It would start out so badly that I don't know if it would ever switch to "fun" in her mind.

[wathe]

13 minutes ago, SKL said:

The driving part isn't legal.

I thought about just having her ready by the door when they come, but the illegal driving thing in the middle of the night with a car full of teens ... I chose to be the adult in this situation.

I

You know, I think that your school admin needs to know about this.

[pinball]

7 minutes ago, SKL said:

Nobody said "kidnap" as far as I know.  But they did say they want to wake the girls up, and they want it to be a surprise.

I don't really think my kid would believe she's being kidnapped, but it would annoy her intensely to have her privacy invaded like that, and to be unable to decide for herself how she wanted to prepare for a social outing.  It would start out so badly that I don't know if it would ever switch to "fun" in her mind.

Yeah, I can understand that. 
 

I hope it works out!

[wathe]

12 minutes ago, SKL said:

Nobody said "kidnap" as far as I know.  But they did say they want to wake the girls up, and they want it to be a surprise.

I don't really think my kid would believe she's being kidnapped, but it would annoy her intensely to have her privacy invaded like that, and to be unable to decide for herself how she wanted to prepare for a social outing.  It would start out so badly that I don't know if it would ever switch to "fun" in her mind.

Exactly.  That's hazing - purposely making her uncomfortable without her consent or foreknowledge, by a group with social power.  It's not OK

[Spryte]

I hope whatever she decides to do tonight ends up being fun for her.

You are making the right choice in driving her, since it’s not legal there. It sounds like a better plan for her.

Let us know how it goes?  I’ll be thinking of her tonight! 

[Katy]

29 minutes ago, SKL said:

Nobody said "kidnap" as far as I know.  But they did say they want to wake the girls up, and they want it to be a surprise.

I don't really think my kid would believe she's being kidnapped, but it would annoy her intensely to have her privacy invaded like that, and to be unable to decide for herself how she wanted to prepare for a social outing.  It would start out so badly that I don't know if it would ever switch to "fun" in her mind.

There’s zero chance I would let her really be surprised.  She definitely needs to know.

ETA:  I just summed this up for DH.  He said feigning surprise is a life skill.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Katy

[MEmama]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

Of course it’s avoidable.  You buy her cute new jammies and lipgloss and give her a heads up. And make sure your cell phone is on so she can call you if she needs rescued. 

I thought I was strict compared to my friends but between this and the thread about giving parents a heads up that 14 year olds were unsupervised at a mall in the middle of the afternoon… apparently I’m extremely permissive.  This is assuming it’s legal for teens to drive other teens in the state of course.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear—I was referencing the event ending up on social media. That part is pretty unavoidable and no amount of lip gloss would make it okay for a lot of 14 year olds, never mind their parents. Thats a humiliation I would have never recovered from for sure. 

[SKL]

So my daughter is totally in agreement with me that she does not want these people coming to her house.  She thinks it is a super creepy idea.

She is slowly warming up to the idea of going to the party (being driven there by me).

We both agree that it is highly likely that most if not all of the parents are warning their daughters rather than letting them be "surprised."

[TechWife]

No way. So very much wrong with this. 
 

Does the principal or headmaster know about this? I can’t imagine this would be acceptable. 

First of all - this is hazing. 

Leave your door unlocked so we can wander your house? No.

Go into someone’s bedroom without their permission? No.

Wear costumes picked out by someone else? No. Too much can go wrong with this.

Honestly, this is setting off a few alarm bells for grooming behavior for abuse. They could be seeing how far you will let them go - this could end up being a verbally abusive environment, or worse. 
 

I removed my son from one meeting and then later from the activity when he was in middle school. I have no regrets. 

Call the principal- yes, at home. 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by TechWife

[TechWife]

7 minutes ago, SKL said:

So my daughter is totally in agreement with me that she does not want these people coming to her house.  She thinks it is a super creepy idea.

She is slowly warming up to the idea of going to the party (being driven there by me).

We both agree that it is highly likely that most if not all of the parents are warning their daughters rather than letting them be "surprised."

Perhaps you can insist on sticking  around to help coach chaperone? 

[pinball]

17 minutes ago, SKL said:

So my daughter is totally in agreement with me that she does not want these people coming to her house.  She thinks it is a super creepy idea.

She is slowly warming up to the idea of going to the party (being driven there by me).

We both agree that it is highly likely that most if not all of the parents are warning their daughters rather than letting them be "surprised."

Now all you need to do is make sure there will be no glitter at the event.

[Spryte]

7 minutes ago, pinball said:

Now all you need to do is make sure there will be no glitter at the event.

Or take a glitter bomb, in case DD needs to create a diversion and escape!

[SoCal_Bear]

I suppose this would never happen where I live. There's a curfew from 10 pm to 6 am for minors in public places. There's also a law against under 18 drivers driving around between 11 pm - 5 am as well. 

 

[Katy]

38 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Sorry if I wasn’t clear—I was referencing the event ending up on social media. That part is pretty unavoidable and no amount of lip gloss would make it okay for a lot of 14 year olds, never mind their parents. Thats a humiliation I would have never recovered from for sure. 

If the child wasn’t surprised it wouldn’t matter because it wouldn’t be humiliating.

[Drama Llama]

I keep coming back to this thread, not sure what to say.  But as I read the details, I feel the need to point out that as a mandated reporter, if I knew that a staff member at my school held an event that both encouraged students to break the law, and encouraged adults or older teens to enter the sleeping space of younger teens without their permission, I would have an obligation to report.  

This ievent sounds both illegal and unsafe.  In the short term there's danger to the kids in the cars.  In the long term, it's teaching girls horrible lessons about their right to privacy, autonomy and safety in their own homes.  

If I otherwise liked this coach, I'd send an message now that says "It has come to my attention that an event has been planned for this evening, involving the girl's soccer team that violates the law, the school district's child safeguarding policies, and the school district's anti-hazing policies.  Please assure me that steps have been taken to cancel this event, or I will need to notify the authorities."  

Then I'd cc every parent, every kid, principal, athletic director, and both coaches, and myself because I'd probably use a throw away email.  Because I'm chicken like that.  

Edited August 18, 2021 by BaseballandHockey
spelling and grammar and, well all sorts of issues.

[Drama Llama]

6 minutes ago, calbear said:

I suppose this would never happen where I live. There's a curfew from 10 pm to 6 am for minors in public places. There's also a law against under 18 drivers driving around between 11 pm - 5 am as well. 

 

It's illegal where SKL lives too.  

[hshibley]

I would not assume that a majority of the seniors on the team were under 18. If she’s playing varsity she’s probably one of a couple freshman and sophomores. At least half the seniors are probably 18 and most likely most of the varsity team are seniors. I think this is the disadvantage of playing varsity as a freshman you are much younger than the rest of the team 14 vs 18. It’s a huge difference. My dd would not be thrilled with this event, but if this is the team mentality your dd needs to decide if these are the type of people she wants to hang out with. My dd played varsity soccer freshman and sophomore year and then quit. They were just not girls that she shared a lot in common. She made close friends on the xc team and ran all 4 years. 

[Murphy101]

2 hours ago, Katy said:

Of course it’s avoidable.  You buy her cute new jammies and lipgloss and give her a heads up. And make sure your cell phone is on so she can call you if she needs rescued. 

I thought I was strict compared to my friends but between this and the thread about giving parents a heads up that 14 year olds were unsupervised at a mall in the middle of the afternoon… apparently I’m extremely permissive.  This is assuming it’s legal for teens to drive other teens in the state of course.

I think that’s…. Naive?… at best. Teens are experts are being humiliated and humiliating others seemingly without any effort no matter what the pajamas or makeup.

I’m so unbelievably grateful my teens were pre-social media and that my own kids don’t get social media access until 16/17. And by then most of them haven’t wanted it. It’s a cruel vicious world for teens out there. 

48 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Perhaps you can insist on sticking  around to help coach chaperone? 

Only if she has had a background check and been approved? I would think?  I know *I* have been but I’m not allowed to let other adults stay in a helper/chaperone/authority capacity at school or church sponsored events unless they have been background checked and passed virtus or whatever the secular school system equivalent is (I forget the name of it here). At the child literacy non-profit group my husband is in the board of - this is true too. Even the people who dress up as spider-man for a party event have to have passed a background check and taken an approved child protection course.

I had a few people I was working with last weekend get their knickers in a twist about the policy bc “back in their day” people didn’t live in fear or teach their kids to live in fear like this.

To which I responded that the adults of the 50s-80s is literally exactly why these policies were developed.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Murphy101

[HazelAnne]

I’m glad you decided to tell her about it. To be honest, I really wouldn’t let my dd attend at all. Even if you drive her there, she still will be subjected to who knows what…and it doesn’t sound like the coach is acting like a responsible adult so I wouldn’t trust the supervision. What if your dd loses access to her phone?

[Katy]

4 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I think that’s…. Naive?… at best. Teens are experts are being humiliated and humiliating others seemingly without any effort no matter what the pajamas or makeup.

I’m so unbelievably grateful my teens were pre-social media and that my own kids don’t get social media access until 16/17. And by then most of them haven’t wanted it. It’s a cruel vicious world for teens out there. 

Only if she has had a background check and been approved? I would think?  I know *I* have been but I’m not allowed to let other adults stay in a helper/chaperone/authority capacity at school or church sponsored events unless they have been background checked and passed virtus or whatever the secular school system equivalent is (I forget the name of it here). At the child literacy non-profit group my husband is in the board of - this is true too. Even the people who dress up as spider-man for a party event have to have passed a background check and taken an approved child protection course.

I had a few people I was working with last weekend get their knickers in a twist about the policy bc “back in their day” people didn’t live in fear or teach their kids to live in fear like this.

To which I responded that the adults of the 50s-80s is literally exactly why these policies were developed.

The humiliation among kids isn’t new, the 24/7 social media is. If the point is online humiliation, it’s at best hazing, and at worst bullying.  I wouldn’t assume it was anything but a team building night though, especially because the coach called first.

I’m a little surprised at how few of you had activities like this in school.  We had lock ins for sports, church groups, music department events, and even all night camping after plays. My school had post-homecoming and post-prom, supervised events until 5am. 

Honestly there was a lot more trouble with unsupervised kids at the local mega church. One of the pastor’s kids got a key and there were all sorts of illegal and immoral behaviors going on during Wednesday & Sunday night services.  I would have far less worries about adult supervised events assuming I trusted DD, she wanted to go, and she had a cell phone to call me.