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The “vaccination divide” in the US


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11 minutes ago, pinball said:

I think it takes a certain personality to put a *sign on your own lawn* that is quite different than protest signs at a protest when you have other people surrounding you.

Lawn signs and bumper stickers are targets, so to speak.

For all I know, they have signs on their lawns and cars. I live in a fairly large city with lots of small towns nearby, and as I said, I don’t regularly go to other neighborhoods. It does seem like quite a commitment to show up week after week for more than half the year. Putting up a lawn sign certainly seems a lot easier.

For what it’s worth, I don’t get the impression these people would be worried about having signs on their lawns or cars. Guns are pretty common here.

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53 minutes ago, popmom said:

Wow. I had no idea. I live in a state with one of the lowest vaccine uptake. I’m surprised I haven’t seen such things here. 

Maybe they don’t feel the need because they are in the majority?

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Interesting ... once again it seems that living in a swing state is a buffer against the extremes on either side.  I have not seen any signs that get political or nasty about Covid here.  I'm so glad.  I don't want people to decide based on anything other than objective facts applied to their own personal health history.

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2 minutes ago, SKL said:

Interesting ... once again it seems that living in a swing state is a buffer against the extremes on either side.  I have not seen any signs that get political or nasty about Covid here.  I'm so glad.  I don't want people to decide based on anything other than objective facts applied to their own personal health history.

Michigan, where Faith Manor lives, is generally considered a swing state.

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17 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Is the anti covid vaccine attitude impacting the percentage of infants getting their childhood vaccinations?

Oh, I don't know. 

I admit one of my kids is behind on vaccines due to not wanting to go into the office during the pandemic (again, Florida, it's bad here) and knowing that they are going no where to be exposed to anything. But she's 4, already had several doses, and at least one of all the stuff I'm concerned about. 

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28 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Oh, I don't know. 

I admit one of my kids is behind on vaccines due to not wanting to go into the office during the pandemic (again, Florida, it's bad here) and knowing that they are going no where to be exposed to anything. But she's 4, already had several doses, and at least one of all the stuff I'm concerned about. 

Our pediatrician said that with our kids not in daycare and DD2's heart she didn't want any of us in the office, "Until all of this is over."

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7 minutes ago, Katy said:

Our pediatrician said that with our kids not in daycare and DD2's heart she didn't want any of us in the office, "Until all of this is over."

Yeah, ours normally harrasses us to come in if we are late..not this year. My kids literally have been to the store less than a dozen times in the last 18 months, always masked. Chances of them getting measels or pertussis are pretty slim. 

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54 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Oh, I don't know. 

I admit one of my kids is behind on vaccines due to not wanting to go into the office during the pandemic (again, Florida, it's bad here) and knowing that they are going no where to be exposed to anything. But she's 4, already had several doses, and at least one of all the stuff I'm concerned about. 

I was thinking more that the antivax crowd has grown by a LOT. And was curious if it would ooze off onto rejecting childhood vaccines also, which would lead to long term ramifications for spread of those diseases. Didn't know if there was data yet. 

Edited by lewelma
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25 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I was thinking more that the antivax crowd has grown by a LOT. And was curious if it would ooze off onto rejecting childhood vaccines also, which would lead to long term ramifications for spread of those diseases. Didn't know if there was data yet. 

I've been wondering about that, too. No idea if it's happening, though.

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Someone I used to know in a moms group (and have unfriended as of tonight) posted a new "frame" on her facebook photo of "proud to be unvaccinated". 

I responded, including info about our overwhelmed hospital workers, EMS, etc. And someone else, another of her friends, replied to my comment saying her relative had just died because of this. She was in the ER admitted for sepsis, needed an ICU bed but none were available - all full of Covid patients. Her relative died because of unvaccinated people filling up the ICU. 

 

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4 hours ago, lewelma said:

I was thinking more that the antivax crowd has grown by a LOT. And was curious if it would ooze off onto rejecting childhood vaccines also, which would lead to long term ramifications for spread of those diseases. Didn't know if there was data yet. 

My thought is they're still going to the doctor and living life normally so I wouldn't think it would seep into other vaxes. I could be totally wrong.

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10 hours ago, popmom said:

Wow. I had no idea. I live in a state with one of the lowest vaccine uptake. I’m surprised I haven’t seen such things here. 

Yes, same here in my part of the same state- I haen't seen anything like it.  We had a groups of about 2

5 parents protest masking in schools here with some stupid slogans that I saw but that was on posters.  Huntsville and Madison CIty both mandated school masks here.

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13 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

My thought is they're still going to the doctor and living life normally so I wouldn't think it would seep into other vaxes. I could be totally wrong.

Also, every single person I know IRL who has chosen not to get the COVID vaccine had their kids in in-person school/child care even if their school was virtual. COVID isn't required for school/daycare, but measles, diptheria, etc  are.  

Edited by Dmmetler
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4 minutes ago, popmom said:

I thought this opinion piece might be of interest...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/06/opinion/covid-delta-vaccines-unvaccinated.html

Great editorial. This is definitely happening in my state and backs up the polls that show the unvaccinated are generally really two groups, the hesitant and the opposed. As for money, the commissioners in several rural counties here where vaccinations rates are quite low have turned down state money because they don’t see the need to increase vaccination rates and believe most in their counties are opposed, not lacking access or hesitant.

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37 minutes ago, popmom said:

I thought this opinion piece might be of interest...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/06/opinion/covid-delta-vaccines-unvaccinated.html

In my area, I've run into the vaccination van at least weekly. In the last 6 or so weeks, it's been in my neighborhood, at the park during free kids' meal pickup, the schools at drop off time for summer school, the library, the Spanish-language grocery store, and the health department. Those are just the places I've run into it - I assume it has been other places as well. I believe there will be a vaccination tent at the county fair this coming week. I thought this kind of thing was happening everywhere - apparently not, according to the article.

 

ETA: I was curious after posting where they will be, so I looked it up. Over the next few weeks, they will be at: 

the county fair (2 days out of the 5 day fair)

a local park

the county food bank (twice in August)

the YMCA

the Salvation Army store

2 different grocery stores

the Lions' Club (twice)

a rural neighborhood that has a clubhouse

and they have a non-mobile clinic at the health department one day a week 7 am-7pm.

Most of these they are there for 6-8 hours, although the local park is only a 3 hour window.

Edited by historically accurate
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This is genius!!! Farmers understand the importance of vaccines, and how quickly disease can spread, more than anyone else on earth. (in a similar vein, veterinary staff seem to take Covid more seriously than pretty much anyone else, for similar reasons). And farmers are trusted more than "government" - hopefully this works!

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/08/07/1025412688/as-trusted-voices-farmers-could-be-key-to-boosting-rural-vaccination-rates

When he first became eligible for the coronavirus vaccine in Illinois, Tom Arnold, 68, says he didn't need any convincing. He raises cattle, hogs and chickens in Elizabeth, a small rural town in the northwest corner of the state.

After all, who better to understand why herd immunity matters than a herdsman?

"Being a livestock producer, I'm well aware of vaccinations and vaccines," he says. "That's how we develop immunity in our animals. We're always vaccinating the breeding stock to pass on immunity to the little ones."

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1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

This is genius!!! Farmers understand the importance of vaccines, and how quickly disease can spread, more than anyone else on earth. (in a similar vein, veterinary staff seem to take Covid more seriously than pretty much anyone else, for similar reasons). And farmers are trusted more than "government" - hopefully this works!

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/08/07/1025412688/as-trusted-voices-farmers-could-be-key-to-boosting-rural-vaccination-rates

When he first became eligible for the coronavirus vaccine in Illinois, Tom Arnold, 68, says he didn't need any convincing. He raises cattle, hogs and chickens in Elizabeth, a small rural town in the northwest corner of the state.

After all, who better to understand why herd immunity matters than a herdsman?

"Being a livestock producer, I'm well aware of vaccinations and vaccines," he says. "That's how we develop immunity in our animals. We're always vaccinating the breeding stock to pass on immunity to the little ones."

Hopefully but I know some anti-vaxxers who have their pets vaccinated but not their children. Go figure. 

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On 8/7/2021 at 9:14 PM, ktgrok said:

Someone I used to know in a moms group (and have unfriended as of tonight) posted a new "frame" on her facebook photo of "proud to be unvaccinated". 

I responded, including info about our overwhelmed hospital workers, EMS, etc. And someone else, another of her friends, replied to my comment saying her relative had just died because of this. She was in the ER admitted for sepsis, needed an ICU bed but none were available - all full of Covid patients. Her relative died because of unvaccinated people filling up the ICU. 

 

And someone I know has a child who is so ill with Covid that this child needs a f*cking ECMO machine and the closest STAFFED available machine the doctor could find was 500 miles away due to all closer staff being already consumed with other Covid patients.

All these "but MY chances are less than 1/3/5/whatever %" people don't take into account that even 1% is hundreds of thousands of OTHER people suffering and dying.

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2 hours ago, MEmama said:

Lee has been awful. His entire pandemic response has been to toss up his hands, not mandate anything, and let people do what they want (except for ordering schools to go back in person in April). The big cities have their own health departments and have basically been independent (Memphis had a car giveaway for those who were vsccinated before June 1, for example, and most of the independent health departments did mask mandates last year, and some of the larger school districts or cities have put in school mask mandates for this fall). The Memphis health department and Memphis area hospitals have also taken up the child/teen vaccination publicity since the state now doesn't do it. (Not just for COVID, but for the ones required for school). 

So, the idea than TN would incentivize vaccinating cattle, while ignoring humans doesn't surprise me. 

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2 hours ago, MEmama said:

After I wrote the post you responded to I realized that there are more rules about vaccinations to take your dog to doggie daycare than to enroll a kid in public school. isn't that crazy??? No religious exemption at doggie daycare. 

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I saw this gem on Facebook today:

Quote

Guys I’m fed up about these vax mandates. Welcome to the beast system. You better keep your spiritual eyes wide open. If I had to give an explanation of why I can’t take the vax as a Christian this is what I wound write. Feel free to use and tweak. But no mistake we are fighting a spiritual fight here.  
As a Christian I believe that I am made in the image and likeness of God, Genesis 1:27. My body is not my own, but rather a temple for God’s Holy Spirit to dwell in. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20. To receive the Covid vaccination will defile my body, and will cause God’s Holy Spirit to depart from me, Jeremiah 7:1-15, Jeremiah 7:21-31, 2 Chronicles 7:19-21, Ezekiel 10:1-22, Haggai 2:6-9. This is unconscionable and unreasonable for me to lose my eternal salvation because of the hope of a vaccination. God alone can protect me, Psalm 62:5-8.

It was a repost, so I have no idea if the author is normally anti-vax or not. The person who reposted it...maybe? I wouldn't have thought so, but who knows these days.

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1 hour ago, Happy2BaMom said:

And someone I know has a child who is so ill with Covid that this child needs a f*cking ECMO machine and the closest STAFFED available machine the doctor could find was 500 miles away due to all closer staff being already consumed with other Covid patients.

All these "but MY chances are less than 1/3/5/whatever %" people don't take into account that even 1% is hundreds of thousands of OTHER people suffering and dying.

I'm so so sorry. 

And yes, people don't seem to understand how many people even a small percentage is. 

7 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I saw this gem on Facebook today:

It was a repost, so I have no idea if the author is normally anti-vax or not. The person who reposted it...maybe? I wouldn't have thought so, but who knows these days.

Um, I'd ask which part of the Bible says vaccines are unholy or defile the body? Is there a spectrum or is it all or nothing? Do they defile you more than a diet coke but less than heroin? What about a blooming onion...that seems pretty sinful. Or is it only medical stuff? If so there a list, like with Kosher food? Like, will taking an ibuprofen send me to hell? What about using a bandaid? 

 

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18 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I saw this gem on Facebook today:

It was a repost, so I have no idea if the author is normally anti-vax or not. The person who reposted it...maybe? I wouldn't have thought so, but who knows these days.

Wow! I've heard people say the same things but still...wow! 

I saw someone on Twitter write that it feels like one of those transitional stages in Christianity. This was a progressive Christian. It feels like things are changing. I see one side of Christianity going in this direction. Like God is the sky daddy who decides everyday who lives and who dies. 

I think this is not a healthy, long term way to live your faith. If something bad happens, it's because God wanted it to happen. Vice versa for good things. How do you live with that kind of God if things don't work out for you? What is their answer to human suffering? God wanted you to suffer. 

It almost sound more like how the ancients viewed their pagan gods. Have we come full circle? 

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39 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I'm so so sorry. 

And yes, people don't seem to understand how many people even a small percentage is. 

Um, I'd ask which part of the Bible says vaccines are unholy or defile the body? Is there a spectrum or is it all or nothing? Do they defile you more than a diet coke but less than heroin? What about a blooming onion...that seems pretty sinful. Or is it only medical stuff? If so there a list, like with Kosher food? Like, will taking an ibuprofen send me to hell? What about using a bandaid? 

 

Or you could go with “But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this is what defiles.19For out of the heart come evil intentions, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander.”  (Matthew 15:18-19)  Particularly the false witness against and slander about people who have dedicated their lives to healing people from disease.

Edited by Danae
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35 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I'm so so sorry. 

And yes, people don't seem to understand how many people even a small percentage is. 

Um, I'd ask which part of the Bible says vaccines are unholy or defile the body? Is there a spectrum or is it all or nothing? Do they defile you more than a diet coke but less than heroin? What about a blooming onion...that seems pretty sinful. Or is it only medical stuff? If so there a list, like with Kosher food? Like, will taking an ibuprofen send me to hell? What about using a bandaid? 

 

ROFLOL

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2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

ROFLOL

That thing is suspiciously tasty while being absolutely terrible for you. something attractive but deadly seems of the devil to me, lol. Much more than a jab with a needle that saves your life. But what do I know, lol. 

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44 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I'm so so sorry. 

And yes, people don't seem to understand how many people even a small percentage is. 

Um, I'd ask which part of the Bible says vaccines are unholy or defile the body? Is there a spectrum or is it all or nothing? Do they defile you more than a diet coke but less than heroin? What about a blooming onion...that seems pretty sinful. Or is it only medical stuff? If so there a list, like with Kosher food? Like, will taking an ibuprofen send me to hell? What about using a bandaid? 

 

Oh Katie I really needed this today.  Thanks for the laughs!

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1 hour ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

After I wrote the post you responded to I realized that there are more rules about vaccinations to take your dog to doggie daycare than to enroll a kid in public school. isn't that crazy??? No religious exemption at doggie daycare. 

My state doesn’t have religious exemptions for vaccines. 🙂

 

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1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

I'm so so sorry. 

And yes, people don't seem to understand how many people even a small percentage is. 

Um, I'd ask which part of the Bible says vaccines are unholy or defile the body? Is there a spectrum or is it all or nothing? 

It’s about “coercion” and their sense that this is the mark of the beast. It’s not about health or not. 

1 hour ago, Danae said:

Or you could go with “But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this is what defiles.19For out of the heart come evil intentions, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander.”  (Matthew 15:18-19)  Particularly the false witness against and slander about people who have dedicated their lives to healing people from disease.

Yes! My DH in healthcare can somewhat laugh about the more ludicrous stuff that is religiously based because it’s just so out there (and we are Christians). It’s really hard for him to see the lies about the medical side when he has really sick patients present who are shocked they’re sick because they listened to bad information.

The religious crazy is sad too, but maybe it hits less close to home when so few of our friends believe this but so many believe the lies about the science.

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6 minutes ago, kbutton said:

It’s about “coercion” and their sense that this is the mark of the beast. It’s not about health or not. 

 

But what on earth do they base the idea that a vaccine is the mark of the beast on? It's as logical as saying blooming onions will send you to hell. Actually it's way less logical, lol.

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2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

But what on earth do they base the idea that a vaccine is the mark of the beast on? It's as logical as saying blooming onions will send you to hell. Actually it's way less logical, lol.

Vaccine passports. They feel as though it will be required for buying and selling, which is a characteristic of the mark. 

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Just now, kbutton said:

Vaccine passports. They feel as though it will be required for buying and selling, which is a characteristic of the mark. 

So the mark of the beast is figurative, not literal, but a 7 day creation is literal? 

I'm really tempted to tell anyone that says a passport or vaccine is the mark of the beast that I'm way to serious about taking the bible literally to think such a thing -and I thought they were a bible believing Christian! The horror!

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9 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

So the mark of the beast is figurative, not literal, but a 7 day creation is literal? 

I'm really tempted to tell anyone that says a passport or vaccine is the mark of the beast that I'm way to serious about taking the bible literally to think such a thing -and I thought they were a bible believing Christian! The horror!

There is no consistency whatsoever!

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42 minutes ago, kbutton said:

There is no consistency whatsoever!

There is a great deal of consistency, it’s just not where you’re looking for it.

For certain groups calling themselves Christian the whole point of religion is to maintain the hierarchical order of society.  All scripture is interpreted through that lens.  A government that doesn’t serve to maintain the hierarchy with white Christian men at the top is anti-(their form of) Christian and therefore akin to Babylon/Rome in Revelation. 

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6 minutes ago, Danae said:

There is a great deal of consistency, it’s just not where you’re looking for it.

For certain groups calling themselves Christian the whole point of religion is to maintain the hierarchical order of society.  All scripture is interpreted through that lens.  A government that doesn’t serve to maintain the hierarchy with white Christian men at the top is anti-(their form of) Christian and therefore akin to Babylon/Rome in Revelation. 

Good point. I think I know lots of people in this camp who don’t know they are in this camp. 

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3 hours ago, kbutton said:

Vaccine passports. They feel as though it will be required for buying and selling, which is a characteristic of the mark. 

I have Jewish friends who compare it to the proof people had to carry/wear during the holocaust that they were or weren't Jewish.

This is in addition to some friends from communist countries who are equally scared of government coercion.

The more people keep pushing for mandates, the longer it will take for people like this to stop reacting in fear and start getting informed.

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8 minutes ago, SKL said:

I have Jewish friends who compare it to the proof people had to carry/wear during the holocaust that they were or weren't Jewish.

This is in addition to some friends from communist countries who are equally scared of government coercion.

The more people keep pushing for mandates, the longer it will take for people like this to stop reacting in fear and start getting informed.

Yeah, that's working really well in all the states where they're actively against mandates and have actually passed laws against them, so no one has to worry about mandates them anymore.  Everyone's getting informed.   Yep.  That's exactly what is happening.  The other states should follow their example.

Edited by Matryoshka
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17 minutes ago, SKL said:

I have Jewish friends who compare it to the proof people had to carry/wear during the holocaust that they were or weren't Jewish.

This is in addition to some friends from communist countries who are equally scared of government coercion.

The more people keep pushing for mandates, the longer it will take for people like this to stop reacting in fear and start getting informed.

Oddly, the same people against vaccine passports - who are sure that being forced to carry papers is evil and one step away from facism/communism/pick your ism, are often the same people who are totally in favor of a universal ID requirement for citizens. 

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8 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Oddly, the same people against vaccine passports - who are sure that being forced to carry papers is evil and one step away from facism/communism/pick your ism, are often the same people who are totally in favor of a universal ID requirement for citizens. 

I'm not saying they don't exist but I've yet to know of any Jewish people who compare vaccine passports to the Star of David. Everyone I've know who has made that comparison has been non-Jewish. All of the high-profile examples were non-Jews, e.g. the Oklahoma Republican Party. Of course, never say never. 

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32 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

I'm not saying they don't exist but I've yet to know of any Jewish people who compare vaccine passports to the Star of David. Everyone I've know who has made that comparison has been non-Jewish. All of the high-profile examples were non-Jews, e.g. the Oklahoma Republican Party. Of course, never say never. 

I’ve seen just one, but it’s widely seen as an anti Semitic comparison. To compare proof of whether youve had a life-saving vaccine during a pandemic to being rounded up and sent to gas chambers is really, really gross. And that’s an understatement.

Edited by KSera
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1 minute ago, KSera said:

I’ve seen just one, but it’s widely seen as an anti Semitic comparison. To compare proof of whether youve had a life-saving vaccine during a pandemic to being rounded up and sent to gas chambers is really, really gross. And that’s an understatement.

100%

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20 minutes ago, KSera said:

I’ve seen just one, but it’s widely seen as an anti Semitic comparison. To compare proof of whether youve had a life-saving vaccine during a pandemic to being rounded up and sent to gas chambers is really, really gross. And that’s an understatement.

Germany has called for banning the use of the yellow star in this way (they have very different laws than we do surrounding anything anti-semitic, for obvious reasons):

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57020697

And there has been all manner of use by it in the US which has drawn a lot of criticism for the trivializing of the death and imprisonment faced by Jewish people during the Holocaust.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57297902

 

 

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