Jump to content

Menu

The “vaccination divide” in the US


Quill
 Share

Recommended Posts

This was ALWAYS a race between getting to herd immunity * , vs dealing with variants that evolved to beat the protection afforded by EITHER vaccination based on prior versions of the virus OR infection with prior versions of the virus.

From the beginning, that was the race.

Some of us placed our trust in chariots, the Warp Speed development of multiple vaccines.  Others in horses, Let Er Rip everyone was exposed, chicken pox party style, ASAP, to get to "natural herd."  Different theories but both based on the idea of "getting to herd" faster than newly morphing variants emerged to beat the protection afforded.

In Feb-April 2021, there was hope that we** might be able to win that race.

 

But then -- before we achieved herd -- Delta emerged. 

We lost the race (or, God willing, we lost the first relay of what is turning out to be a longer race than we hoped.  As did the 1919 inflenza).

And what we learned about COVID 2020 is different from what we are now seeing from COVID Delta.

 

That's not Fauci or "messaging" or "mainstream media" or "science" moving the goalposts.

That is the disease. Mutating. As diseases do.

That is the problem statement. Of the problem. That we *** have.

Still.

Because we lost the race. (Or at least, God willing, the first relay of a longer race than we hoped for.)

 

Again. Remember who the real enemy is.

 

 

 

{just read Faith's post upthread, which she she was writing at the same time as I was. What she said.}

 

 

* global herd immunity, since we're all floating in the same spherical petri dish whether we like it or not)

** global we

*** global we

  • Like 15
  • Thanks 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, Plum said:

Fauci's noble lies
1) masking
2) moving the goal post on herd immunity to promote vaccine uptake
3) vaccine efficacy
4) rising hospitalizations in adolescents

Are we all quoting Fauci on here? I think people here are generally following a variety of public health officials and a lot of epidemiologists that aren't connected to Fauci. The general public has fixed their gaze on him as representing everything about the pandemic, and it seems bizarre. 

I don't like the "noble lies" either, but I disagree that all of those qualify a noble lie. Things change. We have conversations like this around predicting hurricanes too--do we freak people out for nothing, or do we leave them potentially unprepared?

What noble lies has the other side of this been promoting? 

3 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

This was ALWAYS a race between getting to herd immunity * , vs dealing with variants that evolved to beat the protection afforded by EITHER vaccination based on prior versions of the virus OR infection with prior versions of the virus.

From the beginning, that was the race.

Some of us placed our trust in chariots, the Warp Speed development of multiple vaccines.  Others in horses, Let Er Rip everyone was exposed, chicken pox party style, ASAP, to get to "natural herd."  Different theories but both based on the idea of "getting to herd" faster than newly morphing variants emerged to beat the protection afforded.

I don't know anyone who wanted Let Er Rip who ever mentioned variants--they wanted everything open and wanted the economy back to normal. They wanted their freedom. 

One person I know espoused Let Er Rip primarily for young people--opening schools and colleges like a chicken pox party. I don't know how she proposed to protect the elderly in that scenario.

I agree that both were proposed with the idea of getting to herd immunity.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Personally, I think that the Delta variant is going to just rip through, kill a bunch more, disable even more, and then still adhering to their delusions and refusing vaccines and safety protocols, Lambda will hit. Another wave of wiping people out. After that, having lost a lot of hosts and presuming that boosters become available to those who have already vaccinated, boosters tweaked for the new variants, it will finally ebb. I think it is going to get very Darwinian out there. Children, as usual, will suffer the follies of the asshat adults who don't give a damn. It has always been this way. Sigh.

I figure when the U.S. hits about 3 or 4 million dead, a few hundred thousand kids dead or disabled, orphanages have to be built, social security disability goes totally bust from the sheer number of folks needing it due to covid disability, food costs absolutely skyrocket because there aren't enough workers, and medical workers quit in droves or are dead from being overwhelmed by viral load, then a few people may go, "Well sh$t! I guess we should have paid attention."

Or maybe not. The denying and delusional furor has reached a place of being like religious mania. They may be so dogmatic that they don't care how many die, how bankrupt the nation becomes, or even if their own kids die. I know religious people who really do not care, and when their own foolishness catches up, throws their hands in the air and claim, "God's will." Blaming a deity for human complacency is their norm. I have seen a bunch of that including folks that would not get medical treatment for very treatable conditions because "God's will" and "God will heal me". So it is entirely possible that there is no amount of suffering that will cause people to take precautions of any kind unless forced upon pain of incarceration, and I doubt the country will resort to that.

I think we are heading down a very dystopian hole, and I don't think anything can be done to stop it. All you can do is do is the very best you can as individuals who see the iceberg ahead to get your own family into the " lifeboat". The rest are going to party until the hull splits open, and the ship sinks! 😠

I say this as my unvaxed nephew and his wife with a 5.5 year old and a newborn, plan a 200 person party indoor/outdoor no precautions in a county with substantial delta variant spread. My heart weeps for my two great nieces, but I can't do a thing about it.

 

24 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

This was ALWAYS a race between getting to herd immunity * , vs dealing with variants that evolved to beat the protection afforded by EITHER vaccination based on prior versions of the virus OR infection with prior versions of the virus.

From the beginning, that was the race.

Some of us placed our trust in chariots, the Warp Speed development of multiple vaccines.  Others in horses, Let Er Rip everyone was exposed, chicken pox party style, ASAP, to get to "natural herd."  Different theories but both based on the idea of "getting to herd" faster than newly morphing variants emerged to beat the protection afforded.

In Feb-April 2021, there was hope that we** might be able to win that race.

 

But then -- before we achieved herd -- Delta emerged. 

We lost the race (or, God willing, we lost the first relay of what is turning out to be a longer race than we hoped.  As did the 1919 inflenza).

And what we learned about COVID 2020 is different from what we are now seeing from COVID Delta.

 

That's not Fauci or "messaging" or "mainstream media" or "science" moving the goalposts.

That is the disease. Mutating. As diseases do.

That is the problem statement. Of the problem. That we *** have.

Still.

Because we lost the race. (Or at least, God willing, the first relay of a longer race than we hoped for.)

 

Again. Remember who the real enemy is.

 

 

 

{just read Faith's post upthread, which she she was writing at the same time as I was. What she said.}

 

 

* global herd immunity, since we're all floating in the same spherical petri dish whether we like it or not)

** global we

*** global we

Yep, nothing we can do anymore. Our world is just doomed.

  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

 

Yep, nothing we can do anymore. Our world is just doomed.

We aren’t doomed, at least not because of COVID. Pandemics are par for course throughout all of humanity. The political rhetoric and division is nothing new either.

Gently, while I totally understand having tough days—I’m sure we all experience them on occasion, and more now than usual— your daily struggle sounds like maybe you’d benefit from therapy. Please take that from a place of caring and sympathy. You don’t sound like you are in a healthy state of mind, but it doesn’t have to be that way. Wishing you peace, truly. 

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"nothing we can do"

3 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Yep, nothing we can do anymore. Our world is just doomed.

I'm not able to "read" whether you're a) venting (understandable), b) snarky (also understandable, though I'm on a decades-long ever-lapsing recovery program from snark myself), or c) serious.

If the latter:  (( hugs )) .  And also, no snark at all, consider finding a therapist.

 

There is a great deal we can do, separately and jointly.  It is never too late to take a deep breath, corral our resources, pick up some small corner of the task at hand, and start.

  • Like 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, regentrude said:

My friend just told me about a conversation with her neighbor who refuses any Covid precautions because he says "if God decides it's my time, it is my time." When she asked him why, then, did he have heart surgery last year and didn't simply give in to God calling him home, his response was "because I needed it".

You can't use logic. There is such a cognitive disconnect, it's depressing.

As a Christian this frustrates me no end. I believe that God has given us the ability to come up with medicines and treatments and vaccines. There is a limit to what humans can control and that’s where *for me* I trust in God’s timing. But I also believe that God can and does allow us to experience the consequences of our actions- including death. I don’t trust God for a miracle and step out in front of a moving train. I do believe that God is able to stop the train but I also believe that He created the laws of physics and 99.9% of the time keeps them in place. 
 

I know that you’re not a Christian and I am not trying to argue you to my view about God. I am just explaining that not all Christian’s believe as your friend’s neighbor does. 

  • Like 14
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

As a Christian this frustrates me no end. I believe that God has given us the ability to come up with medicines and treatments and vaccines. There is a limit to what humans can control and that’s where *for me* I trust in God’s timing. But I also believe that God can and does allow us to experience the consequences of our actions- including death. I don’t trust God for a miracle and step out in front of a moving train. I do believe that God is able to stop the train but I also believe that He created the laws of physics and 99.9% of the time keeps them in place. 
I know that you’re not a Christian and I am not trying to argue you to my view about God. I am just explaining that not all Christian’s believe as your friend’s neighbor does. 

Oh, I know that. Your view of God seems very sensible to me, who is a former Christian.
My point is just that I cannot se ANY way to argue with a person like my friend's neighbor and convince them to change their ways. I can see how a person who is concerned about the new technology can be educated, how a person who didn't think Covid was really bad can have an eye-opener - but this attitude seems to defy absolutely everything friends and doctors can possibly try. (And sadly, in this rural Midwestern area, the attitude is depressingly prevalent. It's a particular flavor of Christianity that thrives here)

Edited by regentrude
  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

"nothing we can do"

I'm not able to "read" whether you're a) venting (understandable), b) snarky (also understandable, though I'm on a decades-long ever-lapsing recovery program from snark myself), or c) serious.

If the latter:  (( hugs )) .  And also, no snark at all, consider finding a therapist.

 

There is a great deal we can do, separately and jointly.  It is never too late to take a deep breath, corral our resources, pick up some small corner of the task at hand, and start.

My FIL tried to pull the “it’s too confusing to know what to do anymore so I’ll just quit trying” line on me, so I firmly corrected him. I said No, it isn’t confusing. Get vaccinated, wear a mask, keep distance/limit indoor public spaces, and stay home if you’re sick. That’s really, truly doing what we can. And they all make a difference. And I praised him for doing those things.

I guess a person can get caught up in the details—which county is red today, I have to wear a mask here but not there, etc. But in reality, it’s pretty simple to stick to the basics. Mask all the time indoors because it makes sense. Limit exposure because it makes sense. Get vaccinated because it’s a no brainier (I promise) (with the obligatory and important medical exemption disclaimers). Wash your hands, don’t be gross. If the niggling details confuse you, stick to those all the time and your bases will be covered.

eta: I don’t mean there isn’t more we can do, but for anyone who gets stressed about the details, it’s actually pretty simple to follow the basic protocol and feel like they are doing the right things. 
 

 

Edited by MEmama
  • Like 12
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

re trust in chariots v horses v God's will

4 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

....I believe that God has given us the ability to come up with medicines and treatments and vaccines. There is a limit to what humans can control and that’s where *for me* I trust in God’s timing. But I also believe that God can and does allow us to experience the consequences of our actions- including death. I don’t trust God for a miracle and step out in front of a moving train. I do believe that God is able to stop the train but I also believe that He created the laws of physics and 99.9% of the time keeps them in place....

I'm not Christian, and my take on sacred texts is much more seriously, not literally than Jean's, but this is within shouting distance of where I come out as well.

 

I figure we're about at the part of the #FunnyNotFunnyAtAll joke about the guy in the rising floodwaters who refuses the MSM warning, the boat, and the helicopter because he trusts that God will save him.  And when he gets to the pearly gates and asks why God didn't, God says, Dude. I sent a report, a boat and a helicopter.  This is on you, friend.

 

  • Like 9
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

FTR I don't know anyone who isn't doing some level of mitigation to prevent spreading Covid.  But even so, people are sick of hearing a different message every day.  How do you even have a conversation about something that isn't going to be "true" tomorrow?  Hard enough even with people who aren't being judgmental jerks about it.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

36 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

 

I figure we're about at the part of the #FunnyNotFunnyAtAll joke about the guy in the rising floodwaters who refuses the MSM warning, the boat, and the helicopter because he trusts that God will save him.  And when he gets to the pearly gates and asks why God didn't, God says, Dude. I sent a report, a boat and a helicopter.  This is on you, friend

 

 


🙏💕

 

absolutely!!! 

I take that joke to heart . 

 

And in case things go the opposite way of what most of you here on Wtm  believe (if you end up with ADE, or AI, etc. or someone you love does)  keep that in mind for yourselves too.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, SKL said:

FTR I don't know anyone who isn't doing some level of mitigation to prevent spreading Covid.  

You clearly don't live in Missouri. 

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/07/27/ozarks-lake-covid-unvaccinated-500784

Yes, not my favorite source, and yes, they didn't talk to the people who are careful - but those people don't frequent bars at the Lake. 

ETA: What "level of mitigation" do people do in my county where 70% are unvaccinated, yet 95% of all folks are unmasked in public indoor spaces? 

Edited by regentrude
  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, regentrude said:

My point is just that I cannot se ANY way to argue with a person like my friend's neighbor and convince them to change their ways. 

I am right there with you and would assert that some of them talk about what kind of proof they would need, and I think they still wouldn't believe it when it comes there way, much like @Pam in CT says about the old joke.

4 minutes ago, SKL said:

FTR I don't know anyone who isn't doing some level of mitigation to prevent spreading Covid.  But even so, people are sick of hearing a different message every day.  How do you even have a conversation about something that isn't going to be "true" tomorrow?  Hard enough even with people who aren't being judgmental jerks about it.


Maybe by being less rigid and black and white about what it means for information to change. Less effective most definitely does not equal ineffective, for instance.

We don't expect stop signs to keep us from flying out of a car; we expect seatbelts to help with that. Our driving safety is dependent upon layers and layers of protections (technology, laws, law enforcement, driver's ed, etc.), all of which could seem disintegrated and ineffective one at a time if we went from walking everywhere to our interstate system overnight with no transition time. 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, SKL said:

FTR I don't know anyone who isn't doing some level of mitigation to prevent spreading Covid.  But even so, people are sick of hearing a different message every day.  How do you even have a conversation about something that isn't going to be "true" tomorrow?  Hard enough even with people who aren't being judgmental jerks about it.

Yep.

Mutation sucks. Variants beating out what we learned about the last version sucks. Uncertainty about what comes next sucks.

It's what diseases do.  It's a race, and at the moment we are losing.

 

Remember who the real enemy is.  It isn't "messaging" and it isn't each other.

 

  • Like 15
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do think there has been a mixture of both *the variants changing the game* and also *noble messaging/ lying for the "public good."*

The variants changed the game in that while the initial goal of vaccine development was to prevent severe disease/ death/ hospitalization, fairly early on, it became apparent that at least the mRNA vaccines actually prevented disease.  So the messaging rightly changed to "Good news!  Not only will the vaccines prevent you from dying, but they will prevent you getting infected and spreading covid!"  And that did inspire a lot of people to get vaccinated.  But then the variants changed, and that was no longer the case.  People could get infected after vaccination and spread it.  That wasn't a case of public health screwing up or moving goalposts or being wishy-washy.  That was a case of things changing because the virus changed.

On the other hand, there have been some clear examples of noble lies designed to engineer public behavior.  In March 2020, when the CDC said that healthy people shouldn't wear masks, that was a lie.  Those of us who were reading reports knew that masks reduced spread when worn by everyone.  The CDC made that announcement because they were worried about people hoarding masks and there not being enough PPE for health care workers.  It was a lie, and it did damage public trust, especially since they've never repented and said, "We lied.  We screwed up."

When the CDC said that vaccinated people did not need to wear masks, that was....not exactly a lie, because at the time, in most parts of the country, viral transmission levels were low enough that it probably was not critical for vaccinated people to do so.  But it was misleading, because we KNEW Delta was coming; we KNEW it would change the game, and rolling back that guideline only to need to reinstate it (with a super confusing check the viral spread every day and wear one if you're in an area of significant or high transmission), it made people feel that there had been a bit of a bait and switch.  And they're not wrong.  The CDC rolled back the masking for vaccinated people rule based largely on an attempt to get more people vaccinated, but it has contributed to distrust.  

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Pam in CT said:

 

 

There is a great deal we can do, separately and jointly.  It is never too late to take a deep breath, corral our resources, pick up some small corner of the task at hand, and start.

No, not really.   I mean I am doing what I can, but what has that done in my corner. NOTHING. I cannot do anything else to change the tide here. I am doing everything I know to do and it is useless. Thousands will probably die in my corner as this virus continues to mutate. I cannot change that. Yeah, I can stay safe, but I can't fix the thousands of deaths.

  • Sad 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, MEmama said:

We aren’t doomed, at least not because of COVID. Pandemics are par for course throughout all of humanity. The political rhetoric and division is nothing new either.

 

Yes, this will just change our society, much like the Black death in the Middle Ages. The way of life completely changed and many, many died.  Just a repeat now with same results. Nothing I can really do to change it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

No, not really.   I mean I am doing what I can, but what has that done in my corner. NOTHING. I cannot do anything else to change the tide here. I am doing everything I know to do and it is useless. Thousands will probably die in my corner as this virus continues to mutate. I cannot change that. Yeah, I can stay safe, but I can't fix the thousands of deaths.

It's not your job to change it. 

  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

It's not your job to change it. 

I was replying to the poster who told me there is always something we can do to make a difference. Nope. Sometimes what we do makes do difference at all. None.

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

Yes, this will just change our society, much like the Black death in the Middle Ages. The way of life completely changed and many, many died.  Just a repeat now with same results. Nothing I can really do to change it.

Well, in a way that’s true. But most of what we as individuals do doesn’t change the trajectory for thousands of other people either. So we do what we CAN control—get vaccinated, wear a mask, limit public exposure. That helps you stay safe, and your family stay safe, it helps limit the exposure for your grocery store workers and library staff and health care workers and your neighbors. I mean, it DOES have a ripple effect, even if we can’t see it.

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, MEmama said:

Well, in a way that’s true. But most of what we as individuals do doesn’t change the trajectory for thousands of other people either. So we do what we CAN control—get vaccinated, wear a mask, limit public exposure. That helps you stay safe, and your family stay safe, it helps limit the exposure for your grocery store workers and library staff and health care workers and your neighbors. I mean, it DOES have a ripple effect, even if we can’t see it.

Not enough. It will not stop the trajectory of my part of the world.  Plus, that just means my life is miserable.

Edited by TexasProud
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, TexasProud said:

Not enough. It will not stop the trajectory of my part of the world. 

What are you looking for with this mindset? What do you expect an individual should reasonably be expected to influence?

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, MEmama said:

What are you looking for with this mindset? What do you expect an individual should reasonably be expected to influence?

 

An acknowledgement that none of us have the control that we think we do.

Just really frustrated. I will not stop what I am doing, but my life was finally starting to come back and now I am just watching them live while I sit here protecting everyone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, MEmama said:

Truly, you sound so bleak and hopeless. 😞 Please consider seeking therapy. 

I am not. Just frustrated. I have tons of goals.  I am continuing my A plus average in seminary, which is pretty rare. I am not staying in the fetal position.  I have a right to be frustrated and here on this board is the only place I can express it.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Pam in CT said:

 

 

Such a good show, thanks for sharing the clip.  One of the few good things to come from this awful pandemic for us is that my husband and I watched the entire series together, having never seen it before.  It was someone sharing a different clip from it (Josh and Leo’s poingnant “man in a hole” conversation) early on that prompted me to want to watch.  I’m sad that we have finished it.

1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

Not enough. It will not stop the trajectory of my part of the world.  Plus, that just means my life is miserable.

🙁 I had been noticing lately that you were sounding like you were doing better, but sounds like recent developments have tipped you back into catastrophizing mode. I’m sorry you are struggling. Did you find someone to work with? ((Hugs))

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

An acknowledgement that none of us have the control that we think we do.

Just really frustrated. I will not stop what I am doing, but my life was finally starting to come back and now I am just watching them live while I sit here protecting everyone.

I guess I’ve never heard anyone else feel like they themselves can somehow stop an international pandemic. I mean, gently, that’s just not a reasonable idea to get hung up on.

I think most people—at least those of us who are doing all the things—are frustrated and angry. It was even the lead story in my local paper last week. It’s damn hard to have to be the adults while half the population dickers around at our expense. Many of us have been feeling this way for years now. It’s exhausting and infuriating, I totally agree.

Having a tough day/week is understandable and I agree this is a supportive place to vent. But at some point we have to lift ourselves out of our funk and allow our rational parts to take back over. YOU are not going to “fix” this. I am not going to fix this. That’s ok. What we can do is our BEST, and be okay with that. 

  • Like 11
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, MEmama said:

I guess I’ve never heard anyone else feel like they themselves can somehow stop an international pandemic. I mean, gently, that’s just not a reasonable idea to get hung up on.

I think most people—at least those of us who are doing all the things—are frustrated and angry. It was even the lead story in my local paper last week. It’s damn hard to have to be the adults while half the population dickers around at our expense. Many of us have been feeling this way for years now. It’s exhausting and infuriating, I totally agree.

Having a tough day/week is understandable and I agree this is a supportive place to vent. But at some point we have to lift ourselves out of our funk and allow our rational parts to take back over. YOU are not going to “fix” this. I am not going to fix this. That’s ok. What we can do is our BEST, and be okay with that. 

See I don't get it.  She posts stuff like this all the time:

3 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

So we finish our out quarantine and then schools start here. With no mask mandate, with no distancing, nothing. 

I'm thinking I need to stock up on food stuff early next week as best I can, paper towels, toilet paper, OTC meds, etc and just hunker down. 

Cause if we are at basically hospital capacity NOW, and a state of emergency NOW, BEFORE putting thousands of kids inches from each other all day, unvaccinated, unmasked....I can't imagine how much more we are going to see. I HATE THIS!!!

Give me kid vaccines! Give me boosters! I'll take a dozen, if need be, to make up for my fellow citizens doing nothing.  There are vaccines no one is using going to waste, let my 70 yr old mom with COPD have a booster!

Only good news is that kids will have brand new shiny vaccinations and be extra protected for a while, once they get vaccinated?

 

Yet no one is telling her she is too negative. I post my frustrations off and on.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Yes, this will just change our society, much like the Black death in the Middle Ages. The way of life completely changed and many, many died.  

FWIW, in the big picture, the Black Death had tremendously beneficial effects for human society as a whole. It brought about the Renaissance, with its advances in art and science, a new way of thinking, higher social mobility. 
Nobody disputes that Covid absolutely sucks right now, both for the ill and dying, and for those who fight so hard to prevent it. But it's pointless to bemoan the possible changes of society - they may well be positive. We have no clue.

Edited by regentrude
  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Yes, this will just change our society, much like the Black death in the Middle Ages. The way of life completely changed and many, many died.  Just a repeat now with same results. Nothing I can really do to change it.

Gently, the black death killed at least half of the people during the Middle Ages. COVID is bad but it's not anywhere near that bad. Also, the people in the Middle Ages didn't even understand what the plague was and how it was transmitted from one person to the next. We know what COVID is and we know how it's spread and even have a vaccine. 

Those sound like minor things we're using to know what diseases are but placed in the history of humanity, those are huge things. 

  • Like 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

See I don't get it.  She posts stuff like this all the time:

Yet no one is telling her she is too negative. I post my frustrations off and on.  

I don’t hear anyone saying you are being negative. I do think you sound *depressed*, and that’s worrisome. 
 

You’re right, most of us do post our frustrations here from time to time. This an amazingly supportive community and a safe space to do so. In that vein, please keep in mind that there is “venting”, or having a tough day, or living under a backward, cruel governance, and then there is a tone of helplessness and despair. I won’t apologize for being concerned about you and your mental health. I’ve seen that dark road up close and I know it’s scary. I hope you know that there is help out there and I hope you seek it out. There’s truly nothing more I can offer up at this point.

  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Gently, the black death killed at least half of the people during the Middle Ages. COVID is bad but it's not anywhere near that bad. Also, the people in the Middle Ages didn't even understand what the plague was and how it was transmitted from one person to the next. We know what COVID is and we know how it's spread and even have a vaccine. 

Those sound like minor things we're using to know what diseases are but placed in the history of humanity, those are huge things. 

Let us wait about 5 years and see. Without vaccinations, this surge is going to be much more deadly.  We have lost 600,000 so far.  I am guessing another million in the next 6 months for the US alone. We really do not know how bad it was in India, Russia or China or many, many other places in the world.  It will keep mutating since people can get it more than once and after they are vaccinated.  it is going to kill many, many more before this is over. We have only begun.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

See I don't get it.  She posts stuff like this all the time:

Yet no one is telling her she is too negative. I post my frustrations off and on.  

Because she also posts a whole lot of other stuff.  She has been here for more than a decade.  She posts about her kids, her husband, her house, her yard, her dogs, her writing, her yoga, her walking, her faith.  We know a lot about @ktgrok.  She gets (understandably, justifiably) frustrated about her area and the lack of anyone taking covid seriously, but we're not worried that she's clinically depressed.  

You sound hopeless and despairing, and honestly, that's 90% of what we know about you.  So, we worry.  Because a lot of us have been there, and we don't want anyone else to go there.  

Maybe you should watch "West Wing."  We've been in the hole before, and we want you to find a way out.  

 

Edited by Terabith
  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Because she also posts a whole lot of other stuff.  She has been here for more than a decade.  She posts about her kids, her husband, her house, her yard, her dogs, her writing, her yoga, her walking, her faith.  We know a lot about @ktgrok.  She gets (understandably, justifiably) frustrated about her area and the lack of anyone taking covid seriously, but we're not worried that she's clinically depressed.  

You sound hopeless and despairing, and honestly, that's 90% of what we know about you.  So, we worry.  Because a lot of us have been there, and we don't want anyone else to go there.  

Maybe you should watch "West Wing."  We've been in the hole before, and we want you to find a way out.  

 

Believe me. I am not in a hole.  Tell you what, I will be positive for the next few days so you will feel better.  Really, I am fine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Because she also posts a whole lot of other stuff.  She has been here for more than a decade.  She posts about her kids, her husband, her house, her yard, her dogs, her writing, her yoga, her walking, her faith.  We know a lot about @ktgrok.  She gets (understandably, justifiably) frustrated about her area and the lack of anyone taking covid seriously, but we're not worried that she's clinically depressed.  

You sound hopeless and despairing, and honestly, that's 90% of what we know about you.  So, we worry.  Because a lot of us have been there, and we don't want anyone else to go there.  

I think TexasProud has been on these boards for a very long time, too - under various different names. She keeps closing her account and disappearing when the boards become overwhelming for her mental health.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, regentrude said:

I think TexasProud has been on these boards for a very long time, too - under various different names. She keeps closing her account and disappearing when the boards become overwhelming for her mental health.

Yeah, I recall probably two other names, but I don't have a clear identity for her before a couple years ago.  And all of those identities seemed to struggle with depression.  

So, as someone who also struggles with depression, I worry.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, TexasProud said:

Believe me. I am not in a hole.  Tell you what, I will be positive for the next few days so you will feel better.  Really, I am fine.

I am saying this gently: stop pretending. No, you are not fine. What you write does not sound "fine". Your posts over the past few days indicate that you have reached the same level of despair and hopelessness as in several instances before.
And I totally get it, because I have been there, too. And in the moment, we don't see hope. It's the nature of depression, the insidious beast. We can't see it ourselves when our reaction is out of proportion. We need kind friends to point it out. We don't believe them in that moment, of course, but time and time again, they prove to be right.
Take a break from engaging with the topic. It's not good.

  • Like 10
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Let us wait about 5 years and see. Without vaccinations, this surge is going to be much more deadly.  We have lost 600,000 so far.  I am guessing another million in the next 6 months for the US alone. We really do not know how bad it was in India, Russia or China or many, many other places in the world.  It will keep mutating since people can get it more than once and after they are vaccinated.  it is going to kill many, many more before this is over. We have only begun.

Keep in mind that a high % of the deaths to date occurred before vaccines were widely available in first world countries.  Vaccines still aren't widely available worldwide, but we're moving in that direction.

If you look at the fatality rates for even less developed countries that have only recently had big Covid waves, you will notice the death rate appears significantly lower.  I assume this is partly because of vaccines and partly because of how much was learned in the first year of Covid.

There are going to be more deaths, but it's not going to stay the way it was at its worst.  I think the worst is over for developed countries at least, and hopefully more.

Then it goes back to, you can't control other people, and nobody lives forever.  It goes back to what many of us feel about the choice to smoke or drive under the influence.  I have lost a ridiculous number of loved ones to damn cigarettes.  But I can't do anything about that.  So I don't focus on what I can't do.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do feel that the tone of this board has turned more toward catastrophizing again, and that probably isn't helping those who take this to heart beyond their power to change things.

I can understand Delta is taking up a bigger part of our minds though.  It's human nature.

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Let us wait about 5 years and see. Without vaccinations, this surge is going to be much more deadly. 

What is your evidence for this? So far (at least in the US) each surge has been less deadly than the first. 

We really do not know how bad it was in India, Russia or China or many, many other places in the world. 

True. Which means that it may have not been as bad as the media has portrayed it to be.

It will keep mutating since people can get it more than once and after they are vaccinated. 

Studies have been done that show that infection provides robust immunity. Yes, vaccinated people are getting it, but we don't know how common that is. Also, we don't know how many of those people are older or otherwise immunocompromised. 

Susan in TX

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Which is the reason I got it. I am not really concerned for myself. I just don't want to pass it onto anyone else. So the fact that I can now is really disappointing and means that once again, I can't do anything I love to do. I had planned to join choir this month after being out of it for 18 months.  ( I sang for 40 years before that.) Lots of other stuff. Back to being a hermit. 

Why? Why cant you join choir? Why do you have to be a hermit? If you are vaccinated, you are protected from severe disease. If other people are vaccinated, they are also protected. Those who chose not to get vaccinated chose to take that risk so you have no obligation to protect them. So go out and live your life!

Susan in TX

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Let us wait about 5 years and see. Without vaccinations, this surge is going to be much more deadly.  We have lost 600,000 so far.  I am guessing another million in the next 6 months for the US alone. We really do not know how bad it was in India, Russia or China or many, many other places in the world.  It will keep mutating since people can get it more than once and after they are vaccinated.  it is going to kill many, many more before this is over. We have only begun.

Is that million deaths figure just your feeling or something you got from somewhere?  I’m curious, I haven’t seen any future death estimates since we hit 500k.    My gut feeling/guess is that we’ll hit a million total, but that’s based on nothing really. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Susan in TX said:

Why? Why cant you join choir? Why do you have to be a hermit? If you are vaccinated, you are protected from severe disease. If other people are vaccinated, they are also protected. Those who chose not to get vaccinated chose to take that risk so you have no obligation to protect them. So go out and live your life!

Susan in TX

Not everyone can get vaccines whether they want to or not.  Young children for one.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Susan in TX said:

Children have very low risk of morbidity/mortality from Covid. 

Susan in TX

There are children's hospitals whose ICU beds are full of covid patients. A recent post highlighted such a hospital, and half the kids in the ICU had no previous health conditions. 

If it only is dangerous for a small percentage of kids, but massive numbers of kids catch it, that's a lot of kids in danger. 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Let us wait about 5 years and see. Without vaccinations, this surge is going to be much more deadly.  We have lost 600,000 so far.  I am guessing another million in the next 6 months for the US alone.

I don't know what would indicate it would get that bad, given how well the vaccine is protecting against death and the proportion of the population vaccinated. It would have to mutate to something that completely evades the vaccine in order to cause that many deaths in the next 6 months. I believe case numbers are likely to rise higher than we have seen at any other point in the US, but I think deaths will be much lower most places, except for those that have low vaccination rates, which may have significant waves of deaths (but hopefully not as big as before, since the elderly are the most likely to have been vaccinated, even in places that are otherwise anti vax).

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Susan in TX said:

Why? Why cant you join choir? Why do you have to be a hermit? If you are vaccinated, you are protected from severe disease. If other people are vaccinated, they are also protected. Those who chose not to get vaccinated chose to take that risk so you have no obligation to protect them. So go out and live your life!

Susan in TX

I wasn't going to be back on this thread because I want to stay positive, so I am not answering any other questions, but could not resist this one.

I  felt comfortable singing when our positivity was 2 percent and cases were very low. But now our numbers are up to 40 with a positivity of 24 percent. Only 1/3 of our population is vaccinated. Singing is a high risk activity with a HIGH method of transmission. The CMDA has been recommending that singing not be done in churches. Not sure if that is their current stance, though I am guessing with the higher rates it is. 

Vaccinated people can get it and can spread it, even when asymptomatic. Choir could be another superspreader event. And it can be serious for people that have been vaccinated, just look at the woman who posted on the other thread. She nearly died. And moderate Covid may still be too much for some people. I do not want to contribute to their deaths. I am one of the younger members of the choir and I am in my mid to late fifties. Nope, will not kill some of those wonderful people. 

Ok, back to happy movies. 🙂

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...