Florida COVID trends

[ktgrok]

A friend in Alachua County, where UF is, said that to get a test with the health department you have to make an appointment  and they are booked a week out. You may either be better and not test positive at that point, or in the hospital by then! And then it takes another week to get the results! If you think you are positive, you'd have to isolate for TWO WEEKS just to get results! Y'all know a large percentage won't do that, right? She said you CAN go to CVS, but you have to pay out of pocket, and it is self administered! Seriously doubting the accuracy if people are supposed to scoop their own brain with that thing. Or their kid's. One person said they did it but was told the sample was inconclusive. 

I've also seen mail order tests, again pay out of pocket, but those you only have to insert 1 inch into the nose....and mail it in this 100 degree heat - even overnight I have serious doubts it would be truly usable at that point. I had something shipped to me priority mail with multiple ice packs and insulated packaging and two days of shipping had the ice packs totally melted, and the package itself was 97 degrees when I stuck a probe thermometer into it. (I was curious - homeschool moms, right?)

[Pen]

4 hours ago, Ali in OR said:

We have a great community mask-making effort here, but when I asked specifically about whether we should make masks for schools, I hear that the school is going to provide masks for teachers (but no idea what they're providing). Kids will be doing two days per week in school and last I heard we can't require masks but can recommend them. I would love for every student in my school to be given two masks, one for each day. Nothing is happening toward that and there's still so much up in the air about what fall will look like that I don't think people are thinking on that level yet. But I still think 2 masks per student is the right number. I'm guessing staff are in the building 4 or 5 days/week. Since I make my own masks, I will probably make sure I have at least 5 masks with ties (elastic begins to hurt my ears after awhile). Maybe 10 if I change at lunch. All that assuming I still have a job--lovely budget cuts.

 

Why can masks only be recommended, not required?

 

[Wheres Toto]

29 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Why can masks only be recommended, not required?

 

Around here it's because you can't deny access to public education for refusing to wear a mask combined with not being able to ask about medical issues that may contraindicate masks. 

[EmseB]

1 hour ago, Matryoshka said:

Except for all the restaurants, shows, and gift shops, plus all the 'experiences' like breakfast with Mickey.  And a bunch of rides (space mountain, Peter Pan, Mr. Frog, pirates, ghost mansion, star tours, probably a bunch I'm forgetting )

I'd feel better if they limited it to outdoor rides only, as well as only outdoor dining and only outdoor gift carts.  AND that only after after FL had met the CDC guidelines for falling cases, hospitalizations, and test positivity percentage. 

Well, I guess I was thinking there would be no shows. Basing off of Disneyland, all those rides are indoors, but they are huge buildings with air moving through all the time and unless you're on the same car as someone, people are fairly distanced. It is already set up to eat a lot of food outside on a patio and isn't really different from getting take out anywhere else. There are certain rides I wouldn't do like the submarine and such, but I don’t really know Disneyworld as well.

We went to the zoo when it opened...it seemed to work OK. Capacity was limited by timed tickets, masks required, mostly outdoors, indoor exhibits closed, and single stall bathrooms where the stalls are walls that go floor to ceiling.

[Matryoshka]

3 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Well, I guess I was thinking there would be no shows. Basing off of Disneyland, all those rides are indoors, but they are huge buildings with air moving through all the time and unless you're on the same car as someone, people are fairly distanced. It is already set up to eat a lot of food outside on a patio and isn't really different from getting take out anywhere else. There are certain rides I wouldn't do like the submarine and such, but I don’t really know Disneyworld as well.

We went to the zoo when it opened...it seemed to work OK. Capacity was limited by timed tickets, masks required, mostly outdoors, indoor exhibits closed, and single stall bathrooms where the stalls are walls that go floor to ceiling.

LOL, I've mostly been to Disneyland too... haven't been to Disney World since before Epcot existed...

Now that I think about it, the even bigger problem with the indoor rides might be the indoor standing in line for them...  you can wait ages in tight quarters...

[Ali in OR]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

Why can masks only be recommended, not required?

It's coming from ODE. And they were writing their guidelines in May--I honestly don't know if it's changed since the July 1 statewide mask mandate. We're planning to offer both hybrid and online, and I know some staff argued that we're not denying anyone an education if they have an online option. That argument was not being accepted in June--don't know if it's changed since then. When a FB friend was asking if other parents were choosing hybrid or online-only, one parent replied "hybrid, unless they have to wear masks." That just makes me nervous. But again, I don't know if attitudes will change as masks become the norm.

[ktgrok]

40% of Florida hospitals have hit 90% ICU capacity, 20% are at 100% capacity. Orlando is the 8th fastest growing city in the country and yet, on my facebook feed today are photos of kids going to their in person dance recital, talking about how great it is that gymnastics opened up again, etc. 

And Disney opened. 

And my sister, a principal, is about to have 3-4 thousand students at her school, plus 250 staff, all mixing and mingling. And since she has to be there in person, her kids have to go to school in person. 

And I can't offer to homeschool her kids, because they could get this from my sister, and give it to my family and my husband is high risk. 

I'm so upset I can't even explain it. This is my family, at risk. My sister, my nieces, etc. And i have wealthy people on facebook bitching that "well, my kids just won't listen to me, they HAVE to go to school...I need a break". 

It's insanity. 

[mumto2]

We just drove down to the Disney area  to see how busy things really are and I have to say the hotels etc are quiet at least from the safety my car.   Only DVC hotels and Coronado appear to have any activity and those are far from capacity........maybe 40% from the parking lots.  Way less cars then normal.   We think the NBA players are at Coronado which makes sense as the older section has no indoor corridors.  We could see about 10 Mears buses lined up.  Large police presence......as in all over the place.  The non Disney hotels and businesses in the area appear to be re-opening but none were busy.  Not sure what else to say beyond but that I really hope it works........it sure wasn’t a business as normal type reopening from what we could see.

[melmichigan]

On 7/10/2020 at 3:23 PM, Ktgrok said:

 results are taking up to 10 days.

Which means case reports are actually 10 days behind, yikes!

[stephanier.1765]

As of last week, there were over 300 postal workers testing positive in Florida. Just a note to help cheer up your day.🤦‍♀️

[ktgrok]

Just now, stephanier.1765 said:

As of last week, there were over 300 postal workers testing positive in Florida. Just a note to help cheer up your day.🤦‍♀️

Which is why I still am one of the few waiting a day to get my mail (I figure 24 hours in Florida heat in a black mailbox should do the trick!) and I wash my hands after open packages that are delivered, and spritz the table with peroxide if I set a package on there right after it is delivered. Because it takes seconds, and might as well. 

[mumto2]

19 minutes ago, stephanier.1765 said:

As of last week, there were over 300 postal workers testing positive in Florida. Just a note to help cheer up your day.🤦‍♀️

I hope your family member is OK.  Hugs! 

[Pen]

 

2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

And I can't offer to homeschool her kids, because they could get this from my sister, and give it to my family and my husband is high risk. 

 

You might be able to if

1) you have more than one bathroom and

2) could keep homeschooling happening away from where your husband is and

3) with masks on whenever nieces/nephews are indoors .

4) Eating to happen out of doors well distanced. 

 

[ktgrok]

4 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

 

You might be able to if

1) you have more than one bathroom and

2) could keep homeschooling happening away from where your husband is and

3) with masks on whenever nieces/nephews are indoors .

4) Eating to happen out of doors well distanced. 

 

We have under 1,500 square feet for 6 people, and that includes DH working from home in the master bedroom/office. He'd have to cut through whatever other room we were in to get to the kitchen, etc. 

And the heat index is hovering around 103-105 daily. Except when it is pouring rain (thunderstorm season). So outdoors for any length of time isn't really a feasible option, and would still have to cut through the rest of the house to get to the bathroom. Maybe long enough to eat. 

But it would be a significant risk, and oh, a 45 minute commute each way, so if I drove them one way that's 45 minutes in the car, much of it on the highway where windows down isn't really an option. In the heat. Etc. 

[stephanier.1765]

2 hours ago, mumto2 said:

I hope your family member is OK.  Hugs! 

So far, so good even though 4 have tested positive at his office. Thanks for the hugs!

[ktgrok]

And..my friend whose brother is a LEO and found out someone he was training was positive? He's still waiting for results, was defnitely exposed, and meanwhile is out to dinner with his wife for their anniversary! Just posted photos on facebook. 

This is why we can't have nice things. 

[sassenach]

3 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

And..my friend whose brother is a LEO and found out someone he was training was positive? He's still waiting for results, was defnitely exposed, and meanwhile is out to dinner with his wife for their anniversary! Just posted photos on facebook. 

This is why we can't have nice things. 

That's infuriating

 

[ktgrok]

In good news, we did a CRAP TON of testing yesterday (or whenever...we know results take up to 2 weeks now so who knows). Positivity down to about 11 percent. 

But over 15 thousand new cases. 

Over 1 thousand for my county alone. 

Schools are mandated to open in person, five days a week, in a few weeks. 

[KungFuPanda]

On 7/9/2020 at 12:10 PM, Ktgrok said:

My best friend's brother is a LEO, and one of the people he has been working with is positive. He's waiting on his own test results. He has a wife and 4 kids. (and his wife is meanwhile pushing for them to go on a cruise in September, while grandparents watch their kids....he's worried about his health,a nd trying to explain that if their ship gets quarantined and they can't get back off, what happens to their kids??)

 

Omg. Wifey needs her head examined!

On 7/10/2020 at 4:25 PM, mathnerd said:

 

As Disney World reopens in a pandemic, 10 reasons to visit right away:

When Disney World closed in March, there were fewer than 200 coronavirus cases in Florida. Now, there are more than 200,000, with thousands of new cases every day. Meeska mooska! You may be asking yourself, should I go to Disney immediately, because it is fun and I am bored? Here are some reasons to visit post-haste, rather than waiting for the virus outlook to improve.

https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2020/07/08/as-disney-world-reopens-in-a-pandemic-10-reasons-to-visit-right-away/

🤣 Number FIVE!

5. All teachers get in free, because it’s the least we can do as we prepare to ritually sacrifice them.
 

I think the thought process is: “I don’t care if you die. I need free childcare so I can pay MY bills. Society just can’t expect ME to come up with a long term solution for my own kid!”

What’s the math on how long we’d all have to stay in strict time out to eradicate this thing? Had we hunkered down the last two weeks of March would we be living differently now? Ahhh, I remember March. I couldn’t comprehend then how long-haul this would be. I think I’m going to spend the first few weeks of August cancelling October events. 😞

[ktgrok]

Looks like Florida is going to start actually reporting hospitalizations? Until now we released total number hospitalized, but not how many are currently hospitalized. 

There were 7,000 COVID-19 patients in hospitals across the state as of Friday night, including hundreds in Central Florida, according to the Agency for Health Care Administration.

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/hundreds-hospitalized-orange-county-due-covid-19-new-data-shows/7P4A6V6C4BE6ZBBYRN2K3M3S3A/?fbclid=IwAR1hR6GiQV_8N2P4mVeRD7IvQ2ZJpx0tn7aOcNLpn0zvLztSeb5Rn4-Fyh0

[ktgrok]

I'm going to ask, too...if those reading who are prayerful, would pray for the school situation here in Florida, and particularly for my sister? She's Kelly, and has asthma, and about to have 3-4 thousand students on campus if they stick with the current plan. She's scared. She is also a single mom of two kids, one with significant asthma as well. And if she has to be on campus full time, so will her kids. 

The school board vote is tomorrow. 

 

[cintinative]

1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

I'm going to ask, too...if those reading who are prayerful, would pray for the school situation here in Florida, and particularly for my sister?

 

 

And may I ask for my SIL as well. I was under the impression she was given a choice to teach online, but it was more of a "survey" of what the teachers would do, than an actual choice.  She is in Broward County, and their numbers are only marginally better than Miami-Dade's (for those not following, Miami-Dade's are scary).  I don't have a good feel for how much the unions/teachers groups are pushing back. My SIL is not in a union.  

[PeterPan]

8 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

asthma

I've been wondering what the current thoughts/data is on this. It seems like they've gone through some iterations. Definitely asthma with other comorbids (diabetes, etc.) is high risk. And uncontrolled or difficult to control/severe is high risk. 

There was a teacher in AZ who died this summer while apparently teaching a summer session. When you read her risk of comorbidities (lupus, diabetes, asthma, and visibly overweight), it just seems astonishing they let her go back in for their own liability. And I get there's a need to earn money, but she's dead. 

It's just on my mind because we have a month here to decide about dd going back to college, same gig, mild controlled asthma and a propensity to getting sick when stuff goes around. I'm just not sure that's in the "safe" realm.  If your sister goes, maybe she *double* masks? With the mask plus shield? Or try to get repositioned? 

I just heard of a summer camp that tried to go forward and so many kids were sick when they got home that the entire camp shut down. I don't get this contradiction between what they're saying in the news about Germany's schools, etc. and what is happening. And it seems like at some point, we don't care about what works for a population and statistically but whether *we* survive.

On the plus side, the antibody therapy testing in Tampa seems to be going really well. Maybe they'll have a reasonably effective treatment soon and turn things around.

Also, fwiw, at least one of the major autism schools here in the big city has been open this summer and doing great with their measures, no problems. So it CAN be done. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by PeterPan

[Pam in CT]

relevance of Germany's back-to-school circumstances to our back-to-school circumstances

15 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

I've been wondering what the current thoughts/data is on this. It seems like they've gone through some iterations. Definitely asthma with other comorbids (diabetes, etc.) is high risk. And uncontrolled or difficult to control/severe is high risk. 

There was a teacher in AZ who died this summer while apparently teaching a summer session. When you read her risk of comorbidities (lupus, diabetes, asthma, and visibly overweight), it just seems astonishing they let her go back in for their own liability. And I get there's a need to earn money, but she's dead. 

It's just on my mind because we have a month here to decide about dd going back to college, same gig, mild controlled asthma and a propensity to getting sick when stuff goes around. I'm just not sure that's in the "safe" realm.  If your sister goes, maybe she *double* masks? With the mask plus shield? Or try to get repositioned? 

I just heard of a summer camp that tried to go forward and so many kids were sick when they got home that the entire camp shut down. I don't get this contradiction between what they're saying in the news about Germany's schools, etc. and what is happening. And it seems like at some point, we don't care about what works for a population and statistically but whether *we* survive.

On the plus side, the antibody therapy testing in Tampa seems to be going really well. Maybe they'll have a reasonably effective treatment soon and turn things around.

Also, fwiw, at least one of the major autism schools here in the big city has been open this summer and doing great with their measures, no problems. So it CAN be done. 

Exactly.

As of right this minute, there have been a total of 199,974 cases in Germany (population =  83M). There have been a total of 3,304,942 cases in the US (population = 328M).  That is: on a per capita basis (correcting for population size) we've had more than 6 times as many cases as they throughout the 4+ months of this ordeal.  More importantly, on a cases-over-time basis they've done this:

while we're still doing this:

(In addition to the shape of the two graphs, note the scale.  Ours is immensely worse on both bases (our population is about 4 times theirs; our scale is about 10x theirs.))

So both the absolute number of live cases currently walking around exposing others, and the % of live cases currently walking around exposing others as a percentage of the total number of people walking around, is MUCH MORE than 6x as high here, as there.  

The odds are not in our favor here, compared to anywhere else in the developed world.  A teacher here is MUCH MORE than 6x as likely to contract the virus and get sick than a teacher in Germany.  Unlike everyone else, we never brought our curve DOWN before we re-opened. 

Containment now that we've Let Er Rip is not really possible. But neither is economic "normalcy."  All we've done is swapped one set of economic disruptions with a different set of economic disruptions. 

With the levels of incidence we have, teachers will INEVITABLY get sick, substitutes will INEVITABLY be in shortage, hospitals will INEVITABLY be overrun, health care workers will INEVITABLY get too sick and/or too burnt out to carry on.  The landlords serving university students will struggle. The student-serving restaurants and bars in every university town will struggle. (And meatpackers and agricultural workers and assembly line workers and everyone else who works in close quarters with few/any safety provisions.  And all the international tourists on whose business Disney/SeaWorld, the top tier US resorts, cruise ships, golf clubs, Broadway theaters, and etc depend are not permitted to come here even if they might otherwise be willing to risk it.) 

Not because of re-opening policy: because of the virus itself, which we have managed less well than any other developed nation on the planet.

[Twolittleboys]

15 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I think the problem with comparing us and most of Europe (other than Sweden, lol) right now is that Europe's outbreaks are pretty contained. So there's a small chance of actually having the virus GET into the schools. But we have so much virus walking around, that the virus will almost certainly get in, and if it's gets in via an adult, it will spread... it's only the kids who are likely not to spread, it looks like. 

 

Yes, I think that is the difference. We are getting pretty much back to normal life here in Germany (at least for the moment) - our county with around 165 k people for example has had 1 new case in the last seven days (and none for about 10 days before that and generally 1 to 2 per week for the last six weeks or so). There is quite a lot of testing/tracing going on I think (and as long as numbers are low it shouldn't be difficult) and areas do get closed down if numbers go up. So I feel okay if school goes back to normal (or almost normal) in September as long as the numbers remain low.

[Bootsie]

For a comparison, it was not until March 15 that Italy reached 3000 cases per day.  By early March Italy was the focus of world news (with less than 1000 cases per day) and the border between Italy and Austria had been closed.  Miami-Dade county had over 3000 each of the last two days.  

[Corraleno]

Because of the way FL reports cases, Monday is usually their lowest day, often by a lot. The last three Mondays (beginning June 22), they posted ~3,000, 5,000, and 6,000 cases, and by the end of each week the number of new cases was roughly double the previous Monday's number. Today FL posted 12,000 new cases. If the pattern holds, the number of new cases could be up to 24,000 by the end of the week. 😥

[ktgrok]

5 hours ago, PeterPan said:

I've been wondering what the current thoughts/data is on this. It seems like they've gone through some iterations. Definitely asthma with other comorbids (diabetes, etc.) is high risk. And uncontrolled or difficult to control/severe is high risk. 

There was a teacher in AZ who died this summer while apparently teaching a summer session. When you read her risk of comorbidities (lupus, diabetes, asthma, and visibly overweight), it just seems astonishing they let her go back in for their own liability. And I get there's a need to earn money, but she's dead. 

It's just on my mind because we have a month here to decide about dd going back to college, same gig, mild controlled asthma and a propensity to getting sick when stuff goes around. I'm just not sure that's in the "safe" realm.  If your sister goes, maybe she *double* masks? With the mask plus shield? Or try to get repositioned? 

 

Yeah, she's a principal...so can't really reposition. And the thing is, she's AMAZING at her job. As much as I gripe about public schools, she is the exception. She knows her kids, cares about each one, knows their homelife, gets kids gift cards to buy food if they can't afford it, knows which kids need to be given small amounts at a time, or their parents will take the gift card and sell it and let the kid go hungry, etc. 

and she tells kids with ADHD they can do study hour first period and skip it, if their meds kick in later and they are night owls. She lets kids combine virtual and in person classes however they want. She had agriculture students who wanted more hands on experience and she let them build a mini farm in freaking Orlando. She tries to make sure that every kid leaves with either significant college credit or some kind of job experience or certification, be that a veterinary assistant cert (she brought in teachers to let the kids get that on campus), dog grooming cert (they now have a doggie daycare and dog grooming business on campus), daycare (they have the kids of the staff and students in a day care there with students getting credit for early childhood education to help run it), or dual enrollment or IT certifications, etc. She's freaking AMAZING (and Im not saying that because she's my sister - if you get us together for more than 30 minutes we will end up fighting every time). 

And now we are putting her at risk of of a deadly virus. If she leaves due to the risk (and loses out on all the time she invested toward paying off her doctorate in education) or gets sick and has to quit, or heaven forbid dies....that school and those 3-4 thousand kids lose out long term. 

17 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Because of the way FL reports cases, Monday is usually their lowest day, often by a lot. The last three Mondays (beginning June 22), they posted ~3,000, 5,000, and 6,000 cases, and by the end of each week the number of new cases was roughly double the previous Monday's number. Today FL posted 12,000 new cases. If the pattern holds, the number of new cases could be up to 24,000 by the end of the week. 😥

It's terrifying, and my county votes tomorrow on what to do. I'm hearing they may see if they can legally delay school opening, since they can't legally NOT open in person, due to the stupid emergency declaration thing. That would give them time to work out the legalities, try to get the health department to stick its neck out and say it isn't safe, or just time for things to be more contained virus wise. 

[EmseB]

2 hours ago, Bootsie said:

For a comparison, it was not until March 15 that Italy reached 3000 cases per day.  By early March Italy was the focus of world news (with less than 1000 cases per day) and the border between Italy and Austria had been closed.  Miami-Dade county had over 3000 each of the last two days.  

But aren't case counts irrelevant if positivity is high? As in, Italy's seemed to be around 30% in April from a quick Google search, so their actual cases would have been much higher than what's published? Last week I heard FL's positivity was around 12%?

I really don't like cases as a comparison given wide variance in testing from April until now and huge disparities in positivity rates. Then again, I'm often confused about what the numbers are actually saying and people will say certain metrics are a big deal that seem inconclusive to me.

[cintinative]

54 minutes ago, EmseB said:

But aren't case counts irrelevant if positivity is high? As in, Italy's seemed to be around 30% in April from a quick Google search, so their actual cases would have been much higher than what's published? Last week I heard FL's positivity was around 12%?

I really don't like cases as a comparison given wide variance in testing from April until now and huge disparities in positivity rates. Then again, I'm often confused about what the numbers are actually saying and people will say certain metrics are a big deal that seem inconclusive to me.

 

FYI. Dade County positivity rate for yesterday was 20.2%. It was ranged from 16.5% at the lowest to 26.3% at the highest (since June 29th).  Dade county has been over 3,000 positive cases the past two days.

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by cintinative

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, EmseB said:

But aren't case counts irrelevant if positivity is high? As in, Italy's seemed to be around 30% in April from a quick Google search, so their actual cases would have been much higher than what's published? Last week I heard FL's positivity was around 12%?

I really don't like cases as a comparison given wide variance in testing from April until now and huge disparities in positivity rates. Then again, I'm often confused about what the numbers are actually saying and people will say certain metrics are a big deal that seem inconclusive to me.

How to interpret the positivity rate depends upon how testing is being done.  If only those who have been exposed and are experiencing symptoms are tested, you would expect a higher positivtiy rate than you would have if you are doing random testing of the general population.  Also, different tests have been used that I think have different false positive and false negative rates.  

We probably found out in April that things in certain places in Italy were worse than we thought they were in March.  I wasn't necessarily trying to compare how bad things are in Miami right now compared to Italy; my point was more of how our mindset and reference points have changed.  Only four months ago the world was focused on how one country was approaching 1000 new cases in a day; Italy was a disaster-striken area.  

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, EmseB said:

But aren't case counts irrelevant if positivity is high? As in, Italy's seemed to be around 30% in April from a quick Google search, so their actual cases would have been much higher than what's published? Last week I heard FL's positivity was around 12%?

I really don't like cases as a comparison given wide variance in testing from April until now and huge disparities in positivity rates. Then again, I'm often confused about what the numbers are actually saying and people will say certain metrics are a big deal that seem inconclusive to me.

It has ranged a lot...anywhere from 18% to about 11%, lately. Most often hovering around 15% for the last few weeks, if I remember right. You have to take into account both the positivity and the number of cases...so fewer cases and a high positivity rate means you are missing a lot probably. Lower than I think 5% and they think you are getting most cases. At about 11% positivity we had 15 thousand new cases. So a huge number of cases, and still not enough testing. 

And that's an average, many counties are worse than that. Broward and Miami Dade have been very hard hit, with Orange third I think..but a distant third. 

[Pen]

3 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Yeah, she's a principal...so can't really reposition. And the thing is, she's AMAZING at her job. As much as I gripe about public schools, she is the exception. She knows her kids, cares about each one, knows their homelife, gets kids gift cards to buy food if they can't afford it, knows which kids need to be given small amounts at a time, or their parents will take the gift card and sell it and let the kid go hungry, etc. 

and she tells kids with ADHD they can do study hour first period and skip it, if their meds kick in later and they are night owls. She lets kids combine virtual and in person classes however they want. She had agriculture students who wanted more hands on experience and she let them build a mini farm in freaking Orlando. She tries to make sure that every kid leaves with either significant college credit or some kind of job experience or certification, be that a veterinary assistant cert (she brought in teachers to let the kids get that on campus), dog grooming cert (they now have a doggie daycare and dog grooming business on campus), daycare (they have the kids of the staff and students in a day care there with students getting credit for early childhood education to help run it), or dual enrollment or IT certifications, etc. She's freaking AMAZING (and Im not saying that because she's my sister - if you get us together for more than 30 minutes we will end up fighting every time). 

 

Wow!  That’s awesome! Just what everyone wishes all principals could be like!!!  

Lucky kids who get that. 

 

Quote

 

And now we are putting her at risk of of a deadly virus. If she leaves due to the risk (and loses out on all the time she invested toward paying off her doctorate in education) or gets sick and has to quit, or heaven forbid dies....that school and those 3-4 thousand kids lose out long term. 

It's terrifying, and my county votes tomorrow on what to do. I'm hearing they may see if they can legally delay school opening, since they can't legally NOT open in person, due to the stupid emergency declaration thing. That would give them time to work out the legalities, try to get the health department to stick its neck out and say it isn't safe, or just time for things to be more contained virus wise. 

 

I hope they will at least delay.  Can you call and urge delay?   Or other options as well?  I do feel like even though decisions should be science based, calls and letters do count.

 

Any chance of tent like pavilions to get more space? Outdoors with at least overhead shaded?   Or hands on outside masked learning building project to get more space somehow as first unit of year?   My son’s school has a variety of “sheds” and “garden structures” — some student built(or at least partly student built) , that get used for this and that.   They don’t have electric or plumbing afaik and probably managed to stay out of “code” issues by being “learning projects” not  classrooms.  Here in OR they mainly protect from rain, but sun would also be shielded. 

 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Pen said:

 

 

I hope they will at least delay.  Can you call and urge delay?   Or other options as well?  I do feel like even though decisions should be science based, calls and letters do count.

 

Any chance of tent like pavilions to get more space? Outdoors with at least overhead shaded?   Or hands on outside masked learning building project to get more space somehow as first unit of year?   My son’s school has a variety of “sheds” and “garden structures” — some student built(or at least partly student built) , that get used for this and that.   They don’t have electric or plumbing afaik and probably managed to stay out of “code” issues by being “learning projects” not  classrooms.  Here in OR they mainly protect from rain, but sun would also be shielded. 

 

I wrote to my school board members, the state education commissioner, and the director of the county health department. The board seems to be wanting not to open, but the commissioner is requiring it by law, unless the health department says it is too risky. So wrote all of them. I am encouraging others to as well. 

There really isn't much space to put up tents, certainly not to hold any significant fraction of the thousands expected on campus, and the heat index is around 103-105 this time of year. 

[Pen]

2 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

I wrote to my school board members, the state education commissioner, and the director of the county health department. The board seems to be wanting not to open, but the commissioner is requiring it by law, unless the health department says it is too risky. So wrote all of them. I am encouraging others to as well. 

 

👍

Want me to write / call too?  I mean not local, but it does have impact everywhere.  If yes PM with details. 

 

2 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

There really isn't much space to put up tents, certainly not to hold any significant fraction of the thousands expected on campus, and the heat index is around 103-105 this time of year. 

 

Delaying just due to heat, since it’s known that open doors, windows, etc for ventilation is important should itself be a significant consideration 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Pen said:

 

👍

Want me to write / call too?  I mean not local, but it does have impact everywhere.  If yes PM with details. 

 

 

Delaying just due to heat, since it’s known that open doors, windows, etc for ventilation is important should itself be a significant consideration 

Well, we'd have to delay until December, lol for heat

But...if they were told they had to open, not told how. If they threaten to have school outdoors in this heat maybe people will choose to keep their kids home!

And wow, thank you! I'll PM you the email addresses!

Edited July 13, 2020 by Ktgrok

[ktgrok]

A teacher posted this on Facebook today, about my sister. Y'all, I want her safe because she's my sister, but the community needs to keep her safe because long term, the community can't afford to lose her. 

Prior to tomorrow's decision for schools in Orlando, I wanted to take a moment and thank Kelly ______. I have been fortunate to teach with her as my assistant principal and then principal. She has always been head strong for the best interest of students. And she has continuously supported faculty and staff. She says it like it is and is strong and steadfast. Maybe there were times of disagreement, but I truly feel like she has always supported me... not just my teaching, or my program, but me. This is a principal who cares for the community around her. During hurricanes, she helps in anyway she can, even as simple as helping people get ice for coolers. During the spring closure she made herself constantly available, to pick up items, answer questions, etc. Right before I gave birth I was afraid to go out shopping and couldnt find disinfectant items. She personally bought some and brought them to my house for me. When my son completely split his lip open, she was the one to help me navigate appropriate doctors for care for him and continued to check up on him and myself. And I have had some incredibly difficult days and situations at work. Some of those were a bit terrifying to me. Her support, wisdom, advice, and aide made it possible to get through it. This is an amazing principal that I am so incredibly fortunate and thankful to have worked with these past few years.

Now all this being said, I worry for her moving forward. She is not the one making the decision of back to school or not. And no matter the decision people are going to be upset and struggle either way. I also know she will be expected to have answers no one could possibly have... I can't imagine being in her shoes. It is not something I can even pretend to comprehend.

Thank you Kelly for everything you have done for me. I respect and look up to you.

[ktgrok]

Also, I lost it after reading that, and while telling my husband I started sobbing in his arms. He made me a margarita. He's a good man. (it's really strong, too....if my next book ends up with weird edits, y'all know why)

[ktgrok]

Florida, y'all. 

They have the army looking at turning the convention center into a field hospital for Covid patients, another thousand people have been hospitalized since Friday, and they may implement a curfew by the weekend...but the county health department says it is safe and schools are still required to open.https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2020/07/14/feds-scope-out-orange-county-convention-center-for-possible-covid-care-center/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=snd&utm_content=wkmg6&fbclid=IwAR1b0VuRLLvCJV-oWyBNaaCWPpc6zkkLyMR-NXgHVN7S8ppWfmAZLxkOHkI

[Matryoshka]

13 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Florida, y'all. 

They have the army looking at turning the convention center into a field hospital for Covid patients, another thousand people have been hospitalized since Friday, and they may implement a curfew by the weekend...but the county health department says it is safe and schools are still required to open.https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2020/07/14/feds-scope-out-orange-county-convention-center-for-possible-covid-care-center/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=snd&utm_content=wkmg6&fbclid=IwAR1b0VuRLLvCJV-oWyBNaaCWPpc6zkkLyMR-NXgHVN7S8ppWfmAZLxkOHkI

Well, the way this is taking off exponentially,  by the time schools are actually scheduled to open there (a few weeks?) things will be so horrific I think even they just won't be able to pretend their way out of it. Things have been doubling every few days now, and it doesn't seem like anyone 'in charge' is willing to do anything to slow the spread ... so if things continue on this curve unchecked, how many daily cases by the time school starts?

[Laura Corin]

19 hours ago, Twolittleboys said:

 

Yes, I think that is the difference. We are getting pretty much back to normal life here in Germany (at least for the moment) - our county with around 165 k people for example has had 1 new case in the last seven days (and none for about 10 days before that and generally 1 to 2 per week for the last six weeks or so). There is quite a lot of testing/tracing going on I think (and as long as numbers are low it shouldn't be difficult) and areas do get closed down if numbers go up. So I feel okay if school goes back to normal (or almost normal) in September as long as the numbers remain low.

Scotland is averaging around ten new cases a day for 5.5 million. School is opening socially distanced from August.

[cintinative]

@Ktgrok praying with you.  I don't have words for how scary this is. 

[sangtarah]

7 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Florida, y'all. 

They have the army looking at turning the convention center into a field hospital for Covid patients, another thousand people have been hospitalized since Friday, and they may implement a curfew by the weekend...but the county health department says it is safe and schools are still required to open.https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2020/07/14/feds-scope-out-orange-county-convention-center-for-possible-covid-care-center/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=snd&utm_content=wkmg6&fbclid=IwAR1b0VuRLLvCJV-oWyBNaaCWPpc6zkkLyMR-NXgHVN7S8ppWfmAZLxkOHkI

And my central Florida family is still poking fun at me because I don’t want my parents to drive from there, to Conyers, GA for a weekend vacay, then straight to my house in the Midwest. 
“It’s no big deal” is their mantra. 😭 I’m not supposed to “be afraid.” I need to “learn to live with it.”

Meanwhile, I’m screaming quietly in my heart! 💔

[Kanin]

I went down some rabbit holes today, and ended up at this PDF of pediatric COVID cases/hospitalizations in Florida:  http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/covid19_report_archive/pediatric_report_latest.pdf

 

[Pen]

2 hours ago, sangtarah said:

And my central Florida family is still poking fun at me because I don’t want my parents to drive from there, to Conyers, GA for a weekend vacay, then straight to my house in the Midwest. 
“It’s no big deal” is their mantra. 😭 I’m not supposed to “be afraid.” I need to “learn to live with it.”

Meanwhile, I’m screaming quietly in my heart! 💔

 

You can’t say, “No” as to the part that involves you in the Midwest?

 

[sangtarah]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

You can’t say, “No” as to the part that involves you in the Midwest?

 

I did say no, but it was hard.

[TracyP]

2 hours ago, Kanin said:

I went down some rabbit holes today, and ended up at this PDF of pediatric COVID cases/hospitalizations in Florida:  http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/covid19_report_archive/pediatric_report_latest.pdf

 

I have been searching for weeks for a good breakdown of hospitalizations by age in children/teens. Thank you!!

 

[Lady Florida.]

22 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

 

It's terrifying, and my county votes tomorrow on what to do. I'm hearing they may see if they can legally delay school opening, since they can't legally NOT open in person, due to the stupid emergency declaration thing. That would give them time to work out the legalities, try to get the health department to stick its neck out and say it isn't safe, or just time for things to be more contained virus wise. 

Brevard is trying to figure out what to do and whether or not they can delay the start date. Some say it's up to the school boards, some say local health departments. The bottom line though is that they risk losing state dollars. Having taught in the Florida public school system I can say teachers (and most administrators) have a special hatred for state and federal mandates made by people who never set foot in a classroom except when they were kids. 

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/education/2020/07/14/calls-delay-school-openings-brevard-grow-so-does-confusion/5427371002/

A few snippets from the article for those who don't want to read it:

"If we're going to be strong-armed to returning back to the schools by the state, we need to have every precaution in place, including masks," she said, referencing an emergency order signed last week by state Commissioner of Education Richard Corcoran requiring all brick-and-mortar schools to open in August.

From the mother of a high school student -

"The school is not going to be meeting CDC guidelines. Students won't be six feet apart" she said. "How will you handle students going from one building to the next during a five-minute classroom change? How is the classroom going to be sanitized in those five minutes?"

 

While calls to delay openings have grown, so too has confusion over who has the authority to make it happen.

A months-long promise by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis that local decisions would fall to local school officials was upset July 6 by Corcoran's order, which caught districts and school boards by surprise.

While the order states the decision rests with local school boards and superintendents, "subject to advice and orders of the Florida Department of Health, local departments of health," and state edicts, what that means wasn't clear Monday.

A statement provided by two different representatives of Health Departments in Brevard and Orange counties emphasized local officials maintained control: "The local county health department does not have the authority to determine when and how students will return to school.  The county health department works collaboratively with the local school board to provide county data and trends and educate on mitigation strategies to make the school environment as safe as possible."

In either case, Belford said, Corcoran's order tied state funding to the decision to open schools, meaning the school district risked a major financial hit if the board chose to delay school openings past August.

"I do feel like authority is being taken away to a certain extent, and I'll say it's conveniently muddy," she said. "It's just incredibly unclear and it makes it difficult for us at the local level to know which direction we can go."

Skipper called the order a "strong-arm" approach to school openings and said the decision to tie funding to compliance made students "pawns" in a "political game."

"It's all sort of circular pointing fingers," Skipper said. "Ultimately whether the school district chooses to open or not to open, they're going to take the fall for whatever happens."

[ktgrok]

Yup. It's a legal mess and a bunch of passing the buck. 

The comissioner says schools have to open unless their local health department advises them not to. 

The local health departments in many counties, including mine, say it isn't their place to say schools cannot open, and refuse to make the call one way or the other. They just say that isn't their decision, even though the emergency order says it is. 

The local school board and superintendent say that they can't do anything, and that if they vote to keep schools virtual, given that hey, we have a totally unstable situation, it won't matter and the superintendent will still have to order them open. they claim that they have consulted legal advice, and that is the conclusion. 

So - state says it is up to local health departments and the school district. School district says legally it is up to the state or the local health department. Local health department says they have nothing to do with it and can't do anything. 

It is a ....well.....thing I can't say on this board, that starts with cluster.  

[cintinative]

That is one of those areas where you hope the teacher's union lawyers up and sues whoever is necessary to get things moving. I am so sorry for your sister and my SIL. It's stupid that the state DOE won't drop their emergency order given what is going on.