Florida COVID trends

[Pam in CT]

re FL test capacity

10 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

We are asking sick people to wait in line for 6-8 HOURS for antigen testing?!?! (antibody tests were at capacity before it even opened)

That's what they think is plenty of tests?

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2020/06/27/occc-antibody-test-site-reaches-capacity-before-opening/

Good God.  That is a nightmare.

In the early days of NY/NJ/CT's crisis, when test access was severely constrained, folks needed a doctor's order (which could be a PDF on the phone) to be eligible, and a timed appointment. Among the people I know who were tested in those days, the criteria for getting such an order were: 1) symptoms; 2) living in a household in close proximity to someone with symptoms; or 3) known close contact with someone who'd tested positive.  In CT (where there is more physical parking lot space than in NYC hospitals) the hospitals set up drive-through tent facilities, and you were required to wait in the car until checked in and thereafter tested by technicians in (then: extremely limited) PPE.  You were given a 20 minute slot which you lost if you didn't show up on time for check-in, so I am not aware of there being long backed-up waits. 

Our greatest capacity clog in those days was getting the results.  Some hospital networks had access to one of the research hospitals that were doing their own labs, and others did not and had to send them out and be plonked at the back of the in-network line.  The ones that did not were waiting 5-10 days for results, which is hardly helpful.  I *think* that issue has resolved nationally (?).

 

21 minutes ago, beckyjo said:

According to the fired lady's dashboard (https://www.npr.org/2020/06/14/876584284/fired-florida-data-scientist-launches-a-coronavirus-dashboard-of-her-own), Florida's numbers include repeat NEGATIVE tests, but only the first POSITIVE test. So, correct me if I am wrong (it is Sunday morning - not my best math time haha), you could have your 2 negatives count, but not your 3 positive tests before the two negatives, which to me means, if anything, the positives are fine, but the negatives are high, so the percent positive would be skewed low. 

Disclaimer is in the bottom right hand corner of this page: https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/7572b118dc3c48d885d1c643c195314e/

That's how they've always done it on the JHU dashboard as well.  So to the extent that folks in particular contexts (medical workers, WH staff and visitors, etc) are being tested regularly and repeatedly, the (modest) effect is to pull DOWN the positive rate.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

Can I just ask, because every time I see this I keep thinking I'm reading it wrong. We had close to 900 a day last week. For the WHOLE STATE. And they're saying this is for ONE COUNTY???? Ok, they're double us basically. But still, that's a stinking lot of cases. What in the WORLD are they attributing that to????????????????  Are they doing 10X more testing than some other states? And y'all have a lot of counties, so is Orange County agricultural or do they have something that would drive this?

Yup. That's for the county. We have gone from about 25 cases a day, to over 900 cases in a day. Because people REFUSE to believe this is a problem and were tired of the virus. And because our Governor is an idiot, opened up too much too fast, and then when it was obvious to anyone who understood math that this was getting bad, just kept saying "don't worry, it's just more testing" which was a bold faced lie. I mean, we can SEE the numbers and know that isn't true - there is even a graph showing testing actually went DOWN as numbers went up! But people kept hearing that, and hearing deaths were down (but not realizing that deaths lag behind cases - it isn't instant), and thinking everything was fine so going out about life like there was no problem.

37 minutes ago, beckyjo said:

According to the fired lady's dashboard (https://www.npr.org/2020/06/14/876584284/fired-florida-data-scientist-launches-a-coronavirus-dashboard-of-her-own), Florida's numbers include repeat NEGATIVE tests, but only the first POSITIVE test. So, correct me if I am wrong (it is Sunday morning - not my best math time haha), you could have your 2 negatives count, but not your 3 positive tests before the two negatives, which to me means, if anything, the positives are fine, but the negatives are high, so the percent positive would be skewed low. 

Disclaimer is in the bottom right hand corner of this page: https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/7572b118dc3c48d885d1c643c195314e/

Yes. We count new positives, but count repeat negatives. 

We also are counting anitbody tests as well as antigen, but they are a fraction of the total - you can see the numbers and see that isn't the real story. Also, there was something reported a while back that we count negative antibody tests but not positive or something wonky, and I think prisons and such are not counted in the regular numbers. And we do not report current hospitalizations, etc. 

26 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

Orange County is Orlando. They're attributing the huge spike to people not respecting social distancing, not wearing masks and going out and breathing on each other in bars and restaurants. Florida opened up much faster than Ohio, that turned out to be a huge mistake. Unfortunately, they are not alone. Texas and Arizona are right there with them. 

I don't follow FL as closely as TX but our governor, Greg Abbott, has admitted that opening bars was a mistake:

https://www.click2houston.com/news/texas/2020/06/26/gov-greg-abbott-expresses-regret-over-reopening-texas-bars-during-coronavirus/

"If I could go back and redo anything, it probably would have been to slow down the opening of bars, now seeing in the aftermath of how quickly the coronavirus spread in the bar setting," Abbott said during an evening interview with KVIA in El Paso.

Abbott added that the "bar setting, in reality, just doesn't work with a pandemic," noting people "go to bars to get close and to drink and to socialize, and that's the kind of thing that stokes the spread of the coronavirus."

Yeah, how ANYONE thought that was a good idea, I can't understand. I mean, had any of them been to a bar??? EVER????

We also opened up gyms to full capacity at the same time, no masks, no special spacing just "keep hand sanitizer and cleaners available for people to use). So I bet there was spread there too. 

And our restaurants were NOT following the guidelines. Plenty had the employees not wear masks, and patios were crowded with no limit on capacity on patios, etc. Even my neighbors that are NOT cautious drove up to a restaurant and drove back home because it was SO crowded. DH picked up food once from inside and won't again because of the people not respecting distancing, no masks, etc. 

FINALLY we just this past week started actually enforcing the rules for restaurants - at the request of the restaurant association! So the department of business regulation will be fining and shutting places down that they find not complying - but that's in the past few days only. 

We have tracked a lot of cases to bars/restaurants. But self tracking mostly - we have less than two dozen contact tracers for all those cases - no way they can do the job. 

[mumto2]

No, to the best of my knowledge the people seeking the two negative tests are being excluded from the new case numbers in the Florida Department of Health numbers.  Look at those.  There is probably error but that is the most accurate that hubby has found......the newspapers here are bad at the numbers.

The two negative test people are taking up space in the lines especially for the free tests which are the drive thru ones that people are getting in line for in the middle of the night.  That is what I meant.  This probably means that new people are not getting tested sometimes........the free by appointment drive thru testing is full as far as I can tell.  The testing numbers are increasing but when lines are forming in the middle of the night not sure how they can ever get ahead unless they test 24hours a day and our free drive up are mainly in school parking lots.

One of the really bad things about Florida’s numbers is the active cases number is just plain wrong as I understand it.  Unless you have two negative tests you will not fall off the dashboards for active cases. They aren’t automatically dropping your case after a certain number of days like the U.K. does........remember we are looking at the numbers where we lived there intensely too. 😉 If I got tested today, remained home/ asympotomatic, there is no reason for the effort of being retested.  I do not have an employer who needs to see the negative tests so why .........

I know my neighbors who were exposed from their student daughter, his  work sent them to a private clinic ......they don’t have results last I knew.  Hoping for today but told tomorrow.  His office has actually closed until he gets his test results back with everyone home quarantining because of this.  People here are trying to do this right........btw some more tests from parents of the other students who caught it with their Dd have came in and all are negative so far.  They all live near me because these girls grew up playing together.

[ktgrok]

3 minutes ago, mumto2 said:

 

One of the really bad things about Florida’s numbers is the active cases number is just plain wrong as I understand it.  Unless you have two negative tests you will not fall off the dashboards for active cases. They aren’t automatically dropping your case after a certain number of days like the U.K. does........remember we are looking at the numbers where we lived there intensely too. 😉 If I got tested today, remained home/ asympotomatic, there is no reason for the effort of being retested.  I do not have an employer who needs to see the negative tests so why .........

 

Yeah, I don't pay attention to the active cases. If I want an idea of active case I just add up the numbers for the last two weeks of new cases and figure those are the active ones. 

[mumto2]

5 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

We have tracked a lot of cases to bars/restaurants. But self tracking mostly - we have less than two dozen contact tracers for all those cases - no way they can do the job. 

One thing the newspaper in Northern Michigan, where my family lives, is doing really well is they are publishing list of where people with potentially active Covid were and the times as a way of community contact tracing.  They actually say  Xyz restaurant between 7 and 9 pm in a place availiable to all.  Not sure if it’s self reported or what but I really like the thought of having that availiable.....of course that is a relatively small place and our area is big. Both are a tourist /vacation economy.....the list here would just be huge and confusing.....their list was 8 places.

[PeterPan]

44 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

governor, Greg Abbott, has admitted that opening bars was a mistake:

https://www.click2houston.com/news/texas/2020/06/26/gov-greg-abbott-expresses-regret-over-reopening-texas-bars-during-coronavirus/

"If I could go back and redo anything, it probably would have been to slow down the opening of bars, now seeing in the aftermath of how quickly the coronavirus spread in the bar setting," Abbott said during an evening interview with KVIA in El Paso.

Abbott added that the "bar setting, in reality, just doesn't work with a pandemic," noting people "go to bars to get close and to drink and to socialize, and that's the kind of thing that stokes the spread of the coronavirus."

And see that's the thing about cruising. The travel agents are going crazy on their vlogs, but I don't see how you POSSIBLY have cruising going forward till that improves. And I think our state is walking into it too. We have a bar eatery hangout kind of place near us that was PACKED inside and out this weekend. Congregating people, just craziness. I'd like to be kind of Darwinian about it, but unfortunately those people are going to spread it to others. 

So if they figured out what it would take to space and open the bars *safely*, then they could replicate it with cruising. But it sounds like you're hitting on bar culture there, sigh. 

Dumb question. Are bars spacing like restaurants?? Were they literally reopened like some kind of wild west, back to normal, do whatever you want??

[PeterPan]

18 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

FINALLY we just this past week started actually enforcing the rules for restaurants - at the request of the restaurant association! So the department of business regulation will be fining and shutting places down that they find not complying - but that's in the past few days only. 

Oh, so that finally explains it. Wow. Just wow. Dunno what to say. Our restaurants and bars are fearful of losing their licenses, so everything has been enforced. I can't think of a restaurant I've been in where workers were not complying with the rules. I mean, I'm just flabbergasted. What is up with y'all's culture down there???

[PeterPan]

20 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

We also opened up gyms to full capacity at the same time, no masks, no special spacing just "keep hand sanitizer and cleaners available for people to use). So I bet there was spread there too. 

Oh my. Ours opened and I think it's just varying. I hear things. The Y is full masking with reservations. Private can vary but people give space.

I don't know, I'm just astonished. I guess you assume people are the same and apparently Florida isn't. 

Well a total aside, but from the looks of it Disney is going high on the masking to protect themselves. If they're countering a complete lawlessness of people not even following their local ordinances, then Disney is suddenly framed as an oasis, hmm. 

[purpleowl]

2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

When did he get it? Seems crazy to send out now  when we are spiking so outrageously. 

It was part of an email that was sent out Friday afternoon. Cases had been a bit higher here (ETA: since 6/18, compared to where they were before that), but the updates on Friday & Saturday were what I would call a spike. I'd guess it's likely that the decision to send out the email was made before the Friday numbers were posted. I'm also guessing that schools will end up having to move to all-online, at least intermittently, and they will have to adjust the policy again. (It doesn't really affect our family, since homeschooling means I am normally the one caring for the kids during the work day anyway.)

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Is that early for schools to start there? Some univ are starting early, hoping to finish their semesters before kids go home for Thanksgiving. Maybe some ps are doing the same thing, front ending days? Seems like that policy on watching kids is going to flex if the schools go online, etc. 

It's a normal start date. Last school year started August 12, so it's still starting the second Monday in August. It used to be the third Monday, but they shifted it earlier a few years ago.

FSU plans for the last bit of the semester, after Thanksgiving break, to be done online, so students will not return to campus after Thanksgiving until spring semester starts.

Edited June 28, 2020 by purpleowl

[purpleowl]

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Yeah, with numbers like that, how are they going to resume school???? 

Sorry, I missed this one - FSU is in Leon County. Also, update for today is showing up now so let's add that one to local spike. Before Friday, our numbers were hovering in the teens and twenties of new cases per day with a random 50 day thrown in there. Fri/Sat/today has been 50, 86, 167. Clear spike NOW. But also, not the numbers Orange County has been having. (Yet.)

School plan here is for parents to choose in-person classes, Digital Academy (which is tied to the school your child would be in, so your child is doing the same thing they would be if they were in the in-person classroom, theoretically), or Virtual School (which is the statewide curriculum, so things will not look the same as the local school). There's an early July deadline for parents to make a choice, and they're supposed to commit for the whole semester. (I do not foresee in-person classes lasting all semester, personally. I think they will have to do at least intermittent closures as outbreaks happen.) 

[ktgrok]

59 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

And see that's the thing about cruising. The travel agents are going crazy on their vlogs, but I don't see how you POSSIBLY have cruising going forward till that improves. And I think our state is walking into it too. We have a bar eatery hangout kind of place near us that was PACKED inside and out this weekend. Congregating people, just craziness. I'd like to be kind of Darwinian about it, but unfortunately those people are going to spread it to others. 

So if they figured out what it would take to space and open the bars *safely*, then they could replicate it with cruising. But it sounds like you're hitting on bar culture there, sigh. 

Dumb question. Are bars spacing like restaurants?? Were they literally reopened like some kind of wild west, back to normal, do whatever you want??

Bars were not spacing. No masks required. 

55 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Oh, so that finally explains it. Wow. Just wow. Dunno what to say. Our restaurants and bars are fearful of losing their licenses, so everything has been enforced. I can't think of a restaurant I've been in where workers were not complying with the rules. I mean, I'm just flabbergasted. What is up with y'all's culture down there???

Well, masks are not even part of the rules for the employees, not ever, here. So you could go get food from someone theoretically hacking into your food. Ugh. And we had distancing inside in theory, but outside was open for normal capacity back on june 5th.

[ktgrok]

Today - 8,500 something cases for the state, 831 for Orange County. These numbers are insane. 

When we hit 1,000 a day I was freaking out - NOT because 1,000 for the whole state was scary, but because I know what exponential growth is, and knew what was coming. And I hate that I was right. 

Same thing when our numbers for the county went from 20ish to 100 ish. 

[ktgrok]

For orange county this week, 

ER visits for COVID-like illness increased by 50% and ER visits for influenza-like visits increased by 110%

New cases by date in Orange increased by 145% 

 

[ktgrok]

Percent positivity for Orange County

 

[PeterPan]

5 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Bars were not spacing. No masks required. 

Well, masks are not even part of the rules for the employees, not ever, here. So you could go get food from someone theoretically hacking into your food. Ugh. And we had distancing inside in theory, but outside was open for normal capacity back on june 5th.

Whoa, are you for real???????? Aren't businesses concerned about their liability of patrons get sick from their employees??? Oh my. Sorry, but it's pretty clear that higher exposure is higher risk, so these employees are contacting lots of people and have higher risk of carrying it. Our state has every employee masked if they're within 6' of people. And very seldom am I seeing that masking being sloppy. 

So that's kinda crazy if you say the need to mask is the same for both a waitress (tons of close contact) and Granny at home. Granny might get sick but the waitress has SO much more exposure. Oh my. Well at least now we know why you keep talking about restaurants. So no, I can't figure out why anyone is willing to go into a restaurant there right now. Our waitress got too close at Olive Garden with her mask complacency and I didn't like that. Most of the time she stayed back, but people forget.

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Whoa, are you for real???????? Aren't businesses concerned about their liability of patrons get sick from their employees??? Oh my. Sorry, but it's pretty clear that higher exposure is higher risk, so these employees are contacting lots of people and have higher risk of carrying it. Our state has every employee masked if they're within 6' of people. And very seldom am I seeing that masking being sloppy. 

So that's kinda crazy if you say the need to mask is the same for both a waitress (tons of close contact) and Granny at home. Granny might get sick but the waitress has SO much more exposure. Oh my. Well at least now we know why you keep talking about restaurants. So no, I can't figure out why anyone is willing to go into a restaurant there right now. Our waitress got too close at Olive Garden with her mask complacency and I didn't like that. Most of the time she stayed back, but people forget.

Yeah....now you see why when people were talking about a trip to Florida I was saying it was risky, lol. I think you were picturing say, visiting a restaurant way differently that was actually happening. 

A friend was angry because she has celiac, and the only restaurants near her work where she can eat didn't require masks for employees. She was limited to starbucks only. 

[PeterPan]

1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

Yeah....now you see why when people were talking about a trip to Florida I was saying it was risky, lol. I think you were picturing say, visiting a restaurant way differently that was actually happening. 

A friend was angry because she has celiac, and the only restaurants near her work where she can eat didn't require masks for employees. She was limited to starbucks only. 

Yeah, somehow I missed that in the translation. Employees are masked here. If my cruise goes, it will be CA. I'm no longer holding my breath, more just hoping the cruise lines don't go bankrupt before my turn comes for a refund.

[Lady Florida.]

3 hours ago, chiguirre said:

 

I don't follow FL as closely as TX but our governor, Greg Abbott, has admitted that opening bars was a mistake:

https://www.click2houston.com/news/texas/2020/06/26/gov-greg-abbott-expresses-regret-over-reopening-texas-bars-during-coronavirus/

"If I could go back and redo anything, it probably would have been to slow down the opening of bars, now seeing in the aftermath of how quickly the coronavirus spread in the bar setting," Abbott said during an evening interview with KVIA in El Paso.

Abbott added that the "bar setting, in reality, just doesn't work with a pandemic," noting people "go to bars to get close and to drink and to socialize, and that's the kind of thing that stokes the spread of the coronavirus."

It would have been better if he hadn't opened up so early but at least he was willing to own up to his mistake. There's no way DeSantis (FL gov) would ever admit to being responsible. He takes his cues from D.C. and right now those cues are saying "the buck never stops here."

2 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

 

Well, masks are not even part of the rules for the employees, not ever, here. So you could go get food from someone theoretically hacking into your food. Ugh. And we had distancing inside in theory, but outside was open for normal capacity back on june 5th.

Yep. And not only are customers at risk but employees as well. A friend's sister works as a server for a well known Central Florida based chain. When restaurants opened up and she was called back her manager wouldn't let her wear a mask because it looks bad to customers. She couldn't refuse to go back because they need the money and once she was called back her unemployment would end. She has a medically fragile son. Imagine trying to decide between food and shelter for your family or the health of one of your children. Eventually he let her wear a mask but at reduced hours and scheduled for the slowest times. 

The thing is, if you go to the parent company's website they'll tell you all employees are required to wear masks. Individual managers can do what they want though and unless customers complain above the manager's head nothing is done.It's possible, even likely, that the parent company doesn't know.  Employees are afraid to complain because they need their jobs. I haven't heard an update from her recently but I would hope that with the spike the manager relented. Or that enough people complained (all of us who know her did) so the company got on to him about it.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Lady Florida.

[PeterPan]

53 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

she was called back her manager wouldn't let her wear a mask because it looks bad to customers.

Oh my. This is just mind boggling to me. And unfortunately, that's on your governor and your legislature.

[Corraleno]

Worldometer is showing 10,682 cases for FL today. ☹️  ETA: Worldometer just corrected that to 8530

That's getting really close to NY at their worst, and at that point Cuomo was shutting everything down and doing everything possible to slow transmission, while Desantis continues to shrug and say its just an artifact of more testing. It absolutely boggles my mind that any governor who watched the horror that NY went through would not only take ZERO steps to avoid it, but seem to actively encourage conditions that would ensure the same thing — if not worse! — happened in their own state.  

Edited June 28, 2020 by Corraleno

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Lady Florida. said:

It would have been better if he hadn't opened up so early but at least he was willing to own up to his mistake. There's no way DeSantis (FL gov) would ever admit to being responsible. He takes his cues from D.C. and right now those cues are saying "the buck never stops here."

Yep. And not only are customers at risk but employees as well. A friend's sister works as a server for a well known Central Florida based chain. When restaurants opened up and she was called back her manager wouldn't let her wear a mask because it looks bad to customers. She couldn't refuse to go back because they need the money and once she was called back her unemployment would end. She has a medically fragile son. Imagine trying to decide between food and shelter for your family or the health of one of your children. Eventually he let her wear a mask but at reduced hours and scheduled for the slowest times. 

 

my best friend had same thing happen. She was a bartender/server at a restaurant and they wanted her to come back - no masks. They would not mask, didn't want her in one. Oh, and she knew they were not following SIP orders before that because they would invite her to parties at their house (the owners). And they had been to New York recently! She has a son with an immune deficiency and had to say no, but now no money, dwindling savings. 

10 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Worldometer is showing 10,682 cases for FL today. ☹️

That's getting really close to NY at their worst, and at that point Cuomo was shutting everything down and doing everything possible to slow transmission, while Desantis continues to shrug and say its just an artifact of more testing. It absolutely boggles my mind that any governor who watched the horror that NY went through would not only take ZERO steps to avoid it, but seem to actively encourage conditions that would ensure the same thing — if not worse! — happened in their own state.  

Yup, only thing done was pulling liquor licenses, and that was the board of professional regulation - not an executive order, as far as I can tell. I am not sure if they did that because he said to (doubtful), despite him, or what. 

He's actually said a few times that this isn't really something government can/should handle!

[cintinative]

15 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Worldometer is showing 10,682 cases for FL today. ☹️

That's getting really close to NY at their worst, and at that point Cuomo was shutting everything down and doing everything possible to slow transmission, while Desantis continues to shrug and say its just an artifact of more testing. It absolutely boggles my mind that any governor who watched the horror that NY went through would not only take ZERO steps to avoid it, but seem to actively encourage conditions that would ensure the same thing — if not worse! — happened in their own state.  

 

Why is Worldometer's number different from the Florida ArcGIS (8577 cases)? Does anyone know?  @Ktgrok

[ktgrok]

Just now, cintinative said:

 

Why is Worldometer's number different from the Florida ArcGIS (8577 cases)? Does anyone know?  @Ktgrok

nope, although the woman who was fired and running her own dashboard says she's had three separate reports from workers at the DOH that they are being told to fudge the cases prior to 4th of July - so who knows. 

Can also just be that different places update different times of day. Florida's dashboard is updated at 11am (ish), others do noon or 2pm. So might just be that more were reported between those times. 

[Corraleno]

10 minutes ago, square_25 said:

I think Worldometer is double counting, since it's adding up Miami's numbers to the unassigned number, while actually Miami's number is included in their unassigned number. Should be straightened out by the end of the day, I'd expect. 

You're right — they just corrected it to 8530, thank goodness. (Not that 8500 is so great, but at least it's not 10,700...)

Edited June 28, 2020 by Corraleno

[wathe]

7 minutes ago, kand said:

 

I can’t link to an example right now, but I’ve seen a number of places where they are handling this by having the last part of the chart where the incomplete data is have a background color that is shaded that indicates data for those dates is incomplete.

Ontario does this - the bars for incomplete data are in a different colour, which is labelled "subject to reporting lags" in the legend.  I think it's a good, clear way to get the concept across.

[Lady Florida.]

The governor is about to give an update. He's in Pensacola. Unless I missed something, it hasn't started yet but should begin soon. 

https://www.wesh.com/article/florida-coronavirus-cases-sunday/32991063

[mumto2]

Not a Florida bar but one in Michigan near MSU.  https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2020/06/27/harpers-bar-east-lansing-coronavirus-grosse-pointe/3268551001/  Good illustration regarding students going to a bar a spreading Covid a hundred miles away.

[cintinative]

1 hour ago, Lady Florida. said:

The governor is about to give an update. He's in Pensacola. Unless I missed something, it hasn't started yet but should begin soon. 

https://www.wesh.com/article/florida-coronavirus-cases-sunday/32991063

I listened to about ten minutes of it and I couldn't take any more.  The comments on FB are mostly super negative.  

The press asked about the Republican conference--he "thinks we will be fine by that time."  

He seems to be downplaying the spread. He says it is driven by social interactions. Those interactions "may have led to an increase in cases."  And those cases "might mean nothing clinically for this age group."

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, cintinative said:

I listened to about ten minutes of it and I couldn't take any more.  The comments on FB are mostly super negative.  

The press asked about the Republican conference--he "thinks we will be fine by that time."  

He seems to be downplaying the spread. He says it is driven by social interactions. Those interactions "may have led to an increase in cases."  And those cases "might mean nothing clinically for this age group."

Ugh you are braver than me, I can't listen at all or I might stroke out. 

MAY  have led to an increase????? He's such a freaking liar! MAY?????? As if, hey, maybe this is all a dream and we will wake up and it will be over? Because increased positive rate plus more cases with less testing means there is no "may" about it! 

And no crap it is driven by interaction. You don't get it via particles from space. 

And ok, MIGHT mean nothing, might kill them, might do something in between, and they LIKELY will SPREAD IT to people for whom it will be very dangerous. 

UGH. 

His 'everything is fine, nothing to see here" crud is driving me bonkers. Like, for the first time in my life I'm considering taking half a xanax just to calm down. Maybe i'll see if my husband still hsa those CBD vapor things. 

[cintinative]

1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

Ugh you are braver than me, I can't listen at all or I might stroke out. 

 

If I lived in FL I would be screaming at the screen.  I can't imagine.

[Lady Florida.]

5 minutes ago, cintinative said:

I listened to about ten minutes of it and I couldn't take any more.  The comments on FB are mostly super negative.  

The press asked about the Republican conference--he "thinks we will be fine by that time."  

He seems to be downplaying the spread. He says it is driven by social interactions. Those interactions "may have led to an increase in cases."  And those cases "might mean nothing clinically for this age group."

Ugh. That sounds about right for him.

I ended up missing it because I had a Zoom meeting with some friends. I figured I could go back later and find out what he said. I'm not seeing anything yet though maybe various news sites are still putting the story together.

[PeterPan]

23 minutes ago, mumto2 said:

Not a Florida bar but one in Michigan near MSU.  https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2020/06/27/harpers-bar-east-lansing-coronavirus-grosse-pointe/3268551001/  Good illustration regarding students going to a bar a spreading Covid a hundred miles away.

Notice the bar is adding air purifying tech. Virgin cruises is going to do this on their one ship. Don't know how practical/affordable it is for businesses to add or even whether it's actually effective. We have it in our house, so obviously it's effective on something but not sure on a commercial level, maybe not enough airflow or yes enough depending.

Another shocking statistic from the NYT:  every patient admitted to the ER in a large public Miami hospital, for whatever ailment gets a Covid test.  Over the last two weeks, one third of ER admissions, usually for things like broken bones, car accidents, etc. have tested positive for covid.

[ktgrok]

Down to 5,400 for the state and 345 for my county today. But...Sunday sometimes doesn't have as much testing, so we will see what is reported tomorrow (from today). I am hopeful the county drop  is from the mandatory masks in Orange going into effect a little over a week ago now. 

[EmseB]

50 minutes ago, GGardner said:

Another shocking statistic from the NYT:  every patient admitted to the ER in a large public Miami hospital, for whatever ailment gets a Covid test.  Over the last two weeks, one third of ER admissions, usually for things like broken bones, car accidents, etc. have tested positive for covid.

This has actually been a topic of discussion in a few other places...are hospitalizations and hospital usage being recorded as with covid or because of covid, and if every patient coming in for elective and incidents is being tested, are those positives giving us a better idea of asymptomatic cases?

[mumto2]

NM

Edited October 16, 2020 by mumto2

2 hours ago, EmseB said:

This has actually been a topic of discussion in a few other places...are hospitalizations and hospital usage being recorded as with covid or because of covid, and if every patient coming in for elective and incidents is being tested, are those positives giving us a better idea of asymptomatic cases?

 

Who knows?  I guess another possibility is that the patients are asymptomatic when tested at admissions, but are early on in the progression of the disease and will become symptomatic later?

[stephanier.1765]

DH and I were standing at the deli in Publix where we saw at least a third of the employees with masks pulled down to expose their nose or all the way down under their chin exposing mouth and nose. If you are exposing your nose or nose and mouth, you are not compliant with any wearing mask rules! Ugh, and double ugh! I don't know what Jacksonville's new mask rules say specifically but I do hope it includes that covering both the nose and mouth is required.

[ktgrok]

Just got called the B word because I very nicely and politely explained to the woman less than 6 ft away from me at the walmart checkout that I totally understand that some people truly can't wear a mask, for medical reasons, but that talking, especially talking loudly, really increases the spread, so could she maybe wait until she was farther away to finish her phone conversation? (she was on the other side of the self checkout, less than 6 ft away, facing me directly, talking loudly about nothing important, just chat, on her bluetooth headset)

She called me the B word and told me to mind my own business. Sigh. 

[PeterPan]

21 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Just got called the B word because I very nicely and politely explained to the woman less than 6 ft away from me at the walmart checkout that I totally understand that some people truly can't wear a mask, for medical reasons, but that talking, especially talking loudly, really increases the spread, so could she maybe wait until she was farther away to finish her phone conversation? (she was on the other side of the self checkout, less than 6 ft away, facing me directly, talking loudly about nothing important, just chat, on her bluetooth headset)

She called me the B word and told me to mind my own business. Sigh. 

Honestly though, that's totally weird. If the county doesn't require her to mask and she's violating no laws/rules there, then why don't you just move farther away? The issue was the spacing, not whether she's allowed to talk on the phone. Phone was your opinion, spacing is the rule.

[ktgrok]

4 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Honestly though, that's totally weird. If the county doesn't require her to mask and she's violating no laws/rules there, then why don't you just move farther away? The issue was the spacing, not whether she's allowed to talk on the phone. Phone was your opinion, spacing is the rule.

The county DOES have a mandatory mask rule now, where I was. But there are exceptions for medical reasons. And I couldn't move further away, I was scanning my groceries. So was she. As we both were doing this and putting our groceries in bags, we were less than 6 ft. Everyone for the most part was masked, as was the person scanning there when I started scanning. She came up while I was scanning my groceries. 

Phone isn't my opinion - that talking gives off more particles, farther, is a fact. I had hoped that if she knew that, she'd care enough to pause her conversation. 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Ktgrok

[Matryoshka]

2 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Honestly though, that's totally weird. If the county doesn't require her to mask and she's violating no laws/rules there, then why don't you just move farther away? The issue was the spacing, not whether she's allowed to talk on the phone. Phone was your opinion, spacing is the rule.

She said she was in the checkout line.  So you think she should leave the line, or are you suggesting she move too close to the person in front of her (or if already at the checkout, move past where she's supposed to stand to pay?)

[ktgrok]

4 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Also, why is everything strictly about the laws?? There aren't going to be laws about talking loudly. It doesn't mean it doesn't matter. 

Right, I didn't arrest her, I asked her nicely - in a way that was not designed to make her feel badly, just to share info. 

[Matryoshka]

16 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Honestly though, that's totally weird. If the county doesn't require her to mask and she's violating no laws/rules there, then why don't you just move farther away? The issue was the spacing, not whether she's allowed to talk on the phone. Phone was your opinion, spacing is the rule.

Also, it is incumbent upon the person who is moving towards another to maintain spacing, not for the person standing there doing something/minding their own business to keep backing away.

[ktgrok]

And again, masks are required. I am doubting seriously she truly can't wear one for the 10 -15 minutes it takes to check out without ill effects (she said she has asthma). 

[ktgrok]

Oh thank goodness! Seminole just announced a mask mandate - stars Wednesday! My son works in Seminole, the Publix and the Target and fabric store nearest me are all in Seminole. Plus, you can't really contain things if people are crossing county lines 5 times a day, unless the counties are consistent with rules. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.orlandosentinel.com/news/seminole-county/os-ne-coronavirus-seminole-county-press-briefing-20200629-l52yczsbkza6nph3cyiz2pklry-story.html%3foutputType=amp?fbclid=IwAR2fLlmyRy2ds-0AO5fBXBNDi0udhF6PHbg6KoZi0dSq8kiXDcM7-60Cv50

[Lady Florida.]

48 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Also, why is everything strictly about the laws?? There aren't going to be laws about talking loudly. It doesn't mean it doesn't matter. 

Right. And while it's a law in @Ktgrok's county and some others, it's not a law statewide. Our governor keeps insisting we should just trust each other to do the right thing. So what do those of us in counties/cities without mask laws do in a situation like that? 

This was on one of our local news channels last night. Though it's obviously not scientific I thought it was interesting to see some of the differences. 

https://www.wesh.com/article/rossen-reports-grocery-store-mask-experiment/32960891

 

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Lady Florida.

[ktgrok]

Just now, Lady Florida. said:

Right. And while it's a law in @Ktgrok's county and some others, it's not a law statewide. Our governor keeps insisting we should just trust each other to do the right thing. So what do those of us in counties/cities without mask laws do in a situation like that? 

This was on one of our local news channels last night. Though it's obviously not scientific I thought it was interesting to see some of the differences. 

https://www.wesh.com/article/rossen-reports-what-every-state-requests-for-masks-in-stores/32960891

 

 

and to be clear, I don't think anyone should be mean, or aggressive or nasty. I was just thinking that I could see her not thinking about it, and then not doing it again after someone said something. She did stop her conversation in the end, but not sure if the other person hung up or what. And when she was leaving, I caught her eye and said thank you. (even after she'd called me a b#tch)

I almost didn't say anything, for not wanting to be rude. But then I realized it was insane to risk my health, possibly my life, rather than make her perhaps uncomfortable!

[mumto2]

NM

Edited October 16, 2020 by mumto2

[DoraBora]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

and to be clear, I don't think anyone should be mean, or aggressive or nasty. I was just thinking that I could see her not thinking about it, and then not doing it again after someone said something. She did stop her conversation in the end, but not sure if the other person hung up or what. And when she was leaving, I caught her eye and said thank you. (even after she'd called me a b#tch)

I almost didn't say anything, for not wanting to be rude. But then I realized it was insane to risk my health, possibly my life, rather than make her perhaps uncomfortable!

I think it was very brave of you to say anything.  You were polite and direct, and she won't forget what you said.  Well done.