Florida COVID trends

[OH_Homeschooler]

3 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Just got called the B word because I very nicely and politely explained to the woman less than 6 ft away from me at the walmart checkout that I totally understand that some people truly can't wear a mask, for medical reasons, but that talking, especially talking loudly, really increases the spread, so could she maybe wait until she was farther away to finish her phone conversation? (she was on the other side of the self checkout, less than 6 ft away, facing me directly, talking loudly about nothing important, just chat, on her bluetooth headset)

 

 

A few weeks ago in Walmart I saw a woman walking around, talking on her phone, mask around her neck (masks mandated state-wide), completely oblivious to everyone around her. She didn't get close to me but for the first time in a long time, I thought about the stupidity of needing to be on the phone while you're shopping. I mean I get that sometimes you have to take a call, but this was clearly someone who was chit-chatting with a friend, nothing pressing. People on phones in public, in general, are rude. They're loud and discuss things no one else wants to hear about. But now, it's dangerous. Just wait until you're somewhere private to have your little chat. And get out of the way while I'm shopping please. Some of us want to get the heck out of Walmart!

I'm sorry you got called a B. I've gotten in more FB fights than I can count lately. People are not able to think clearly or beyond themselves anymore, I swear. 

[Pen]

8 hours ago, square_25 said:

Whooooa. Interesting. Not a random sample, of course, but I wonder what this means. 

 

When NYC was really bad, in the bad hit hospitals, doctors were saying that pretty much every patient was showing Covid lung signs on X-ray, even if they had no apparent symptoms 

[EmseB]

Did I just hear npr correctly... Miami is closing beaches for the 4th?

[DoraBora]

10 minutes ago, EmseB said:

Did I just hear npr correctly... Miami is closing beaches for the 4th?

Yep. Ft. Lauderdale and Palm Beach, too.  

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by DoraBora

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, square_25 said:

Yeaaaah, let's push celebrations indoors, that'll work. 

Or people can just stay home and NOT get in big groups. Given the spike, that's the goal. 

[EmseB]

7 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Or people can just stay home and NOT get in big groups. Given the spike, that's the goal. 

I think that was the goal until about the beginning of June or so.

[EmseB]

I guess outdoor spread is a concern again.

[ktgrok]

Just now, EmseB said:

I guess outdoor spread is a concern again.

People tend to congregate under tents on the beach, to drink and forget about distancing, to congregate at the pavilions and share food and grill, to carpool to the beach, etc. 

If people were doing the right thing, they wouldn't shut them down. 

 

[EmseB]

12 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

People tend to congregate under tents on the beach, to drink and forget about distancing, to congregate at the pavilions and share food and grill, to carpool to the beach, etc. 

If people were doing the right thing, they wouldn't shut them down.

Again, I think you might have been able to make this case before early June and maybe it would have made sense. I have seen too many non distanced protests to even raise an eyebrow at Miami Beach and people grilling or drinking under open air tents. CHOP, anyone?

[frogger]

10 hours ago, GGardner said:

Another shocking statistic from the NYT:  every patient admitted to the ER in a large public Miami hospital, for whatever ailment gets a Covid test.  Over the last two weeks, one third of ER admissions, usually for things like broken bones, car accidents, etc. have tested positive for covid.

 

This would not surprise me at all.  I think in places with lots of testing you see a huge decrease in percent hospitalized.  This thing just spreads like crazy because it has so many undercover agents unwittingly spreading it.

[Acadie]

1 minute ago, square_25 said:

Eh, I dunno. I doubt any beach will be as crowded or as loud as a protest. 

I don't expect spikes from beaches. But we won't be able to tell, because there are spikes already. 

 

I think people generally stay longer at the beach and are more likely to drink alcohol, bring kids and use restrooms compared to protests. It wouldn't surprise me if all those factors increase the chances of transmission. But you're right--with the spikes in Florida it will be hard to tease that out.  

 

[Matryoshka]

6 minutes ago, Acadie said:

I think people generally stay longer at the beach and are more likely to drink alcohol, bring kids and use restrooms compared to protests. It wouldn't surprise me if all those factors increase the chances of transmission. But you're right--with the spikes in Florida it will be hard to tease that out.  

I'd still worry about beachgoers going to bars at night as a source of transmission rather than outside on the beach itself - especially if mask use was mandated.

I feel like there should be much clearer messaging going on.  This 'open bars' now 'close beaches' is so all over the place.  The first was way too optimistic, and especially after the protests, the second seems like it could be an overreaction, or as others say, drive this behavior indoors or private areas where as much or more stupid will happen.  If people are going to congregate, let's try to tell them how to do it in the safest way possible.

[ktgrok]

15 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Hmmmm, how long do you think people stayed at protests? 

It's possible it increases the chance of transmission, but it's just not looking like outdoor spread is a major source of spread. I haven't heard of a single outbreak traced to something that was purely outdoors. The restrooms... that one I can see. But still, I don't imagine super-spreader events. 

And again, do you really think people will not congregate, if they were the sort to flout social distancing in the first place?? 

That church in rural Oregon, they had their services outside, but no masks or distancing, and had an outbreak. 

8 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I'd still worry about beachgoers going to bars at night as a source of transmission rather than outside on the beach itself - especially if mask use was mandated.

I feel like there should be much clearer messaging going on.  This 'open bars' now 'close beaches' is so all over the place.  The first was way too optimistic, and especially after the protests, the second seems like it could be an overreaction, or as others say, drive this behavior indoors or private areas where as much or more stupid will happen.  If people are going to congregate, let's try to tell them how to do it in the safest way possible.

Bars are now closed, thankfully.  (well, defacto closed...they can't serve alcohol, and they can't afford to stay open if they are not serving alcohol...although they can do to-go drinks)

I'd agree that open bars and closed beaches is dumb. But right now, the more closed the better. 

[EmseB]

34 minutes ago, kand said:

I agree that outdoors is looking lower risk than we thought at this point, but the fact that protests happened under less-than-ideal circumstances doesn’t mean that other activities are suddenly safe. The protests were risky, and so far it looks like we have been lucky that they haven’t been sources of spread. I attribute that likely to high mask usage combined with being outdoors. But because people did that, doesn’t mean it’s a tit for tat and now other people get to do their whatever thing without consequence. The virus doesn’t care. It works how it works. If people are masking on the beach, I think it would likely have similar results to protests. If they aren’t masking and are drinking and crowding, it’s likely higher risk. And I expect Floria beaches are likely to be a low masking, high alcohol crowd. (But again, not as high risk as we initially expected—I think personally eating at an indoor restaurant might be riskier.)

It's not tit for tat. I am not saying that protesters got to go outside in groups so people should be able to go to the beach. It's that everyone is saying that the protests didn't cause spread. I have seen pictures of these protests, complete with tear gas, no distance, hundreds of thousands of people, people screaming in other people's faces (with and without masks), and people eating, congregating, and socializing under pop up tents and tarps. All those people were using port-a-potties provided by the city. They were all going to the bathroom somewhere, some were going home to vulnerable people in their own households, some were drinking and doing drugs, some were camping outdoors. I know everyone likes to say they were well masked. I am not going to to go find all the examples of how not masked they were, how close to each others faces they were, how much yelling in each others faces there was...but it happened.

If all of those protests caused the rise in numbers we are seeing in the younger age groups right now, then I'd agree, beaches closed. We have our case study and outdoors is no bueno.

If the proests did not cause spread, Miami Beach or any beach or park or outdoor space is lit-trally not a concern. I would be more concerned about being indoors in one of the high rises with all those elevators and circulated air, to be honest, but that's where people live.

Droplet spread is not like a fog. It is not gas settling into a WWI trench. In an ocean breeze, on a hot day, it's going to dissipate in the limitless quantity of air coming from the ocean almost as soon as you breathe it out.

I honestly cannot really believe that people are arguing to close beaches at this point. I thought it was ridiculous before the protests, but NOW? After saying over and over again that the data bears out that the protests were not a problem? This is so brazenly political I can't even (as the kids say. do the kids still say that?).

[Matryoshka]

1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

That church in rural Oregon, they had their services outside, but no masks or distancing, and had an outbreak. 

With crowds, I think you have to have the masks and distancing, even outdoors.

[EmseB]

2 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

But right now, the more closed the better. 

I'd argue that as open as possible without spread, the better.

Also, I hadn't heard the Oregon church was outdoors. Everything that I read said they were in the church dancing and signing and violating all kinds of distancing rules.

[EmseB]

3 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

With crowds, I think you have to have the masks and distancing, even outdoors.

No one was distancing during protests. Many were masked, but not all.

[Matryoshka]

2 minutes ago, EmseB said:

No one was distancing during protests. Many were masked, but not all.

I think some had more distancing and mask than others, but you're right it certainly wasn't universal.  I was a bit freaked out, honestly, and have been very happy my worries did not manifest.  But it does incline me to agree that beaches, especially with masks and without bars, should be relatively safe on the 'how can we leave our houses without getting Covid' scale.

[kbutton]

5 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

With crowds, I think you have to have the masks and distancing, even outdoors.

This seems sensible. 

Delaware beaches are having spikes (100+ tested positive), though it sounds like parties and restaurants are involved. https://www.pennlive.com/coronavirus/2020/06/visited-rehoboth-or-dewey-beach-over-the-weekend-get-tested-for-covid-19-says-health-department.html?utm_campaign=pennlive_sf&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR2PlcBCx86rweNxmQ0uVXrl4f8hIsyBDkz0LvVnLsu6IVBv2_Ymd8Yrhuc

 

[Matryoshka]

3 minutes ago, kbutton said:

This seems sensible. 

Delaware beaches are having spikes (100+ tested positive), though it sounds like parties and restaurants are involved. https://www.pennlive.com/coronavirus/2020/06/visited-rehoboth-or-dewey-beach-over-the-weekend-get-tested-for-covid-19-says-health-department.html?utm_campaign=pennlive_sf&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR2PlcBCx86rweNxmQ0uVXrl4f8hIsyBDkz0LvVnLsu6IVBv2_Ymd8Yrhuc

Yeah, I think the actual beaches being open during the day, with guidelines for masks and distancing and a cap on how many people are on the beach at once (which I think is normal in the summer anyway, it may just have to be a bit lower of a cap than normal), but shut down the restaurants, and warn people away from indoor, unmasked, undistanced partying after hours.  May be hard if young people are coming to hotels for the beach - maybe limit beaches to locals/ day-trippers  It's not the physical beach that's the problem, I don't think, it's all the associated party behavior after the beach...

[kbutton]

I am guessing there's also a lot of variety in beach setups--some with large boardwalks, some natural without amenities. 

Unintended consequences of shutting beaches is a real thing, but in places with outbreaks tied to beaches, it seems like locals are at risk of community spread as well. Some communities are quite small, and there may not be other places to go to get groceries except by going where all the partygoers are also shopping. 

I am sure common sense policies can be established, but the outbreaks at some beaches make me think they are not being established.

[ktgrok]

26 minutes ago, EmseB said:

I'd argue that as open as possible without spread, the better.

Also, I hadn't heard the Oregon church was outdoors. Everything that I read said they were in the church dancing and signing and violating all kinds of distancing rules.

But we DO have spread here - a ton! Have you seen the numbers for south florida?? Multiple hospitals - big ones, not dinky rural ones - reporting ICU beds are full. 

Also, if the beaches are open, people drive for hours to get there. People staying closer to home is safer, again, particuarly in south florida, where this is happening. 

 

26 minutes ago, EmseB said:

No one was distancing during protests. Many were masked, but not all.

the protest in Orlando was distanced. 

15 minutes ago, square_25 said:

 

You have to evaluate policies on their actual consequences, not just their messaging. Limiting capacity so people can distance, I can see that. Closing beaches, no, I don’t see it.

they tried limited capacity the first time around, and it was not working. They don't ahve the man power to enforce it, and people refused to follow the guidelines. That's why they closed them down the first time. 

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Ktgrok

[ktgrok]

This says the Oregon church thing was outdoors - https://www.lagrandeobserver.com/coronavirus/covid-19-explosion/article_feb41198-af5c-11ea-b466-9bb49be5644c.html

But the church’s videos of services in April and the first half of May show dozens of parishioners gathered in the church parking lot around a central stage, ignoring the restriction on crowd sizes.

[ktgrok]

4 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Ugh, that just sucks. Well, maybe it makes sense just as messaging, then — a sort of “there’s a problem, take it seriously!” thing.

I’m still super worried about people congregating indoors instead, though.

Yeah, but trust me, a lot of people use "going to the beach" to mean driving an hour to say, Cocoa, hitting the beach, hitting restaurants, shopping, maybe even getting hotel rooms and crowding into those, etc. 

Not just families driving 10 minutes and spacing out. 

And the way the beaches are in a lot of places, it's all or nothing, no on there to check ID on the hundreds of people going in and out, plus that would cause lines/crowding which is what we are trying to avoid. Just closing the parking lots works better with way less manpower. 

[ktgrok]

9 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

You can't truly deter tourists, though. Our area voluntarily limited hotel occupancy when basically everything was still closed, and tourists still came to the beach. They were just people who came from other counties for the day and then went home.  Closing parking lots did absolutely nothing to deter people, either. 

Where did they park, to get to the beach?

 

[EmseB]

19 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

Well, but if people can't go to the beach, then out of towners aren't going to go to FL at all, and then partying at home isn't FL's problem.

I wonder if they could limit beaches to locals.  Require ID or something.  Because I agree that generally opening up outdoor recreation for the people in a community is good, but encouraging people to travel to an area, and stay in hotels, and eat in restaurants, and use rest stops, isn't.  

Loudon County, VA just had an outbreak of kids coming back from beach week at Myrtle Beach.  

 

Weren't those kids in restaurants and hotels and dance clubs and bars together? I'm not advocating for all of that. I'm saying people should be allowed to go to the beach, to be outside in public.

[Matryoshka]

18 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

Well, but if people can't go to the beach, then out of towners aren't going to go to FL at all, and then partying at home isn't FL's problem.

I wonder if they could limit beaches to locals.  Require ID or something.  Because I agree that generally opening up outdoor recreation for the people in a community is good, but encouraging people to travel to an area, and stay in hotels, and eat in restaurants, and use rest stops, isn't.  

Loudon County, VA just had an outbreak of kids coming back from beach week at Myrtle Beach.  

Yeah, I think that long-distance travel should be a later phase of reopening.  Like, we stayed at home, next step should be outdoors close to home.  Indoors and long trips should be later, likely more than just two weeks later.  Bars are dead last.  Well, maybe cruises.  Bars on boat, even worse.

[ktgrok]

Oh, and no one is going to mask on the beach, that's not going to happen. 

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather see restaurants back at curbside pickup/delivery than see beaches closed. 

[Matryoshka]

11 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

You can't truly deter tourists, though. Our area voluntarily limited hotel occupancy when basically everything was still closed, and tourists still came to the beach. They were just people who came from other counties for the day and then went home.  Closing parking lots did absolutely nothing to deter people, either. 

Day trippers at least aren't going to spread things as far as people coming from far away (and are also less likely to bring infection in to the area).

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, kdsuomi said:

They park on neighborhood streets. People already do this when the parking lot is full and in areas where using the parking lots costs money, so it was an automatic change. 

Ah, yeah, you can't do that in the areas I've been. The streets along the beach are commercial, not residential, or if they are residential they are condos with private parking, etc. 

[Matryoshka]

1 minute ago, kdsuomi said:

Not necessarily. Our county is surrounded by counties with much higher infection rates, so it has been a definite concern here. 

Ugh, that's not good.

[ktgrok]

Just now, square_25 said:

Huh, interesting. It was definitely all outdoors? This is the first case of outdoor spread I’m hearing about.

They aren't talking much, but supposedly that's what the videos show. They moved services outside, but were in close contact while outside - laying on of hands, etc. 

[ktgrok]

Also, not all Florida beaches are closed - just in the hardest hit counties. 

[EmseB]

closing parking lots seems nonsensical. Yes, the cars are close together. People might be if they are all getting in and out of cars at the same time, but unless there's an organized event going on it seems like it would be totally avoidable. No one has, to my recollection, been close enough to breathe in my face in a parking lot. Even in non-covid times, people generally wait for one another to get in or out or to get kids in or out, if only to avoid car doors hitting one another. I went to the zoo last week (timed tickets, masks and distancing), parking lot was full, but we never saw another person until we got to the gate.

I can't get the italics to turn off. So annoying!

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, EmseB said:

closing parking lots seems nonsensical. Yes, the cars are close together. People might be if they are all getting in and out of cars at the same time, but unless there's an organized event going on it seems like it would be totally avoidable. No one has, to my recollection, been close enough to breathe in my face in a parking lot. Even in non-covid times, people generally wait for one another to get in or out or to get kids in or out, if only to avoid car doors hitting one another. I went to the zoo last week (timed tickets, masks and distancing), parking lot was full, but we never saw another person until we got to the gate.

I can't get the italics to turn off. So annoying!

No, I meant that is how they close the beaches. They don't have enough staff/police to sit there and check every single person's ID, to see if they are a resident, etc etc. Instead, they just close the beach, and they do that mostly by closing down the parking lots for the beaches. Not becasue the parking lot is the issue, but because that's the easiest way to keep the beaches closed. It's the means to do it, not the purpose. 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, square_25 said:

This sounds like they went indoors:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2020/06/everything-we-know-about-the-eastern-oregon-church-at-the-center-of-states-largest-coronavirus-outbreak.html%3foutputType=amp

hmm..that one says the video shows them in the church, the other article says the video is of them outside around a stage....same video? 

[Matryoshka]

6 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

They do mention being in the church a couple times.

I then got distracted by the fact that you can't be a minister if you believe women should be allowed to trim their hair.  I thought that Sikhs were the only religion that believed that. 

Lol, at least the Sikhs aren't sexist about it - nobody's supposed to trim their hair.  That's why the turbans...

[Pam in CT]

re closing beaches / beach parking to residents only

9 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

Well, but if people can't go to the beach, then out of towners aren't going to go to FL at all, and then partying at home isn't FL's problem.

I wonder if they could limit beaches to locals.  Require ID or something.  Because I agree that generally opening up outdoor recreation for the people in a community is good, but encouraging people to travel to an area, and stay in hotels, and eat in restaurants, and use rest stops, isn't.  

Loudon County, VA just had an outbreak of kids coming back from beach week at Myrtle Beach.  

 

 

9 hours ago, square_25 said:

Ooooh, out of towners!! I didn’t even think of that. Yes, that makes sense. I remember Cuomo calling that kind of thing an attractive nuisance (not in the legal meaning of the word, but in spirit), and yes... this I understand.

I think some NY beaches were residents only as well.

CT has too.  

Well -- there's a state law here that ALL beachfront between the low/30' beyond high tide marks are public land, so technically nobody -- not the poshest hotel or most restrictive club -- can restrict all the way to the water's edge.  Technically you can walk the coastline all the way.

But the COVID restriction allows all municipalities, and requires (the very few) private beaches to limit PARKING access to either municipal or state residents.  

 

8 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

You can't truly deter tourists, though. Our area voluntarily limited hotel occupancy when basically everything was still closed, and tourists still came to the beach. They were just people who came from other counties for the day and then went home.  Closing parking lots did absolutely nothing to deter people, either. 

Not entirely, but if there's really a will you can go a good way with parking.  

In the municipal two beaches closest to us that we usually go to (both outside our town lines, SIGH), the city (Norwalk) or town (Westport), any resident can show up at town hall and get one free (N) or nominal-cost (W) parking sticker along with a laminated drivers' license-size tag thing with all household members' names printed.  The sticker has to be physically affixed to a car with CT plates to park, and beachgoers also have to present the tag thing.  Norwalk residents who don't have a car but use public transportation (which, frankly, doesn't get you that close to the water's edge, but that's not new to COVID, that's the same as ever) can just show the tag thing.  

Theoretically there could be an arbitrage of Norwalk residents going in, getting their tags, and selling them to tour groups.... but not to any kind of scale; and in any event our beaches aren't worth that kind of effort, LOL.  

We're 15 miles away and WE can't go.  We still could go to the state beaches, but they're requiring CT plates to park... and the access points are really really FAR from anywhere else to park.  So an out-of-state tourist would have a really hard time. A very determined person could bike in.

 

Florida's coastline in the densely-developed areas is a lot more built up than ours, so there are more places to contrive around parking restrictions... but really the issue is WILL.  If the paramount value is The Economy (not just at the beach itself; the tourist dollars in hotels and restaurants and shops) then you need those "attractive nuisances" open so as to attract those dollars.

[ktgrok]

35 minutes ago, kdsuomi said:

We have one police officer in our town, and right now the sheriff's department is hurray doing other things rather than wanting to enforce some crazy parking restrictions. Basically, there is logistically no way to keep tourists out by parking restrictions. The only thing that worked was when our state was on lockdown and the population still bought into it. 

I meant actually closing gates to parking areas, etc....that doing that or physically barricading off a parking lot takes less manpower than trying to station a person there to check every person's ID, etc. 

[mumto2]

Woot!  Numbers are down again today.....only 87 (can’t believe I can say only) new cases today.  That was a 10% positive rate and our median age is back up to 37.

About beaches........we never ever go on holiday weekends as they are crammed beyond my comfort levels.  We do pay for a annual parking pass which lets us park on the beach so the kids can grab their boards and leave shoes, towels, etc in the car.  It’s  easy.....and we can look at a beach cam before we head out.  We don’t have a pool at our house so the beach once a week has been sort of our emotional outlet.  We normally go only on a weekday so we won’t be there this weekend. Last time we went there were big 30 people groups under gazebos ...............mixed ages so same family but probably not same household.  They were not intentionally sharing food as there wasn’t a buffet type tables set up.  People had more like 20 feet separating from the huge groups........the volume this weekend will probably toss that out the window.  That said the National Seashore is now open........huge beach area so that may keep the beach congestion down a bit. 

[ktgrok]

Ok, so cases are down from the crazy highs of last week, but looking at this graph, so is testing. Positivity rate is still trending up. (this looks like it hasn't been updated with the lastest cases from yesterday - this shows yesterday's data so Sunday's info)

I REALLY wish I could find info on how many tests were done yesterday, at state and county level. 

 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, mumto2 said:

Woot!  Numbers are down again today.....only 87 (can’t believe I can say only) new cases today.  That was a 10% positive rate and our median age is back up to 37.

About beaches........we never ever go on holiday weekends as they are crammed beyond my comfort levels.  We do pay for a annual parking pass which lets us park on the beach so the kids can grab their boards and leave shoes, towels, etc in the car.  It’s  easy.....and we can look at a beach cam before we head out.  We don’t have a pool at our house so the beach once a week has been sort of our emotional outlet.  We normally go only on a weekday so we won’t be there this weekend. Last time we went there were big 30 people groups under gazebos ...............mixed ages so same family but probably not same household.  They were not intentionally sharing food as there wasn’t a buffet type tables set up.  People had more like 20 feet separating from the huge groups........the volume this weekend will probably toss that out the window.  That said the National Seashore is now open........huge beach area so that may keep the beach congestion down a bit. 

Where do you find positivity by day, and such? Is it on a county website or something I can find to use for my area as well? I would love to see what our testing was like, and positivity rate by day, etc. I found one and linked above for the state, not updated yet with newest day's info, but not for county. 

[mumto2]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Where do you find positivity by day, and such? Is it on a county website or something I can find to use for my area as well? I would love to see what our testing was like, and positivity rate by day, etc. I found one and linked above for the state, not updated yet with newest day's info, but not for county. 

Sorry I double quoted and I don’t have time to fix as my curbside is ready.Hubby pulls the page off the Florida Health Department website each day.  There are apparently two forms of reports.....68 and 2000 page.  I think he pulls off the 68 page....there is a summary page in that someplace.

Edited June 30, 2020 by mumto2

[Pam in CT]

re paying for the manpower to implement resident-only restrictions

2 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

We have one police officer in our town, and right now the sheriff's department is hurray doing other things rather than wanting to enforce some crazy parking restrictions. Basically, there is logistically no way to keep tourists out by parking restrictions. The only thing that worked was when our state was on lockdown and the population still bought into it. 

Right. That's exactly what I mean by "will."  If there's a will, there's a way.  But at a cost.  (It needn't not be police officers that do the enforcement, of course.  But additional security costs, yes.)

We want to re-open. But we also want to do it on the cheap.  And we also want no impingements on personal liberty.

And ya can't have it all.

[ktgrok]

13 minutes ago, mumto2 said:

Sorry I double quoted and I don’t have time to fix as my curbside is ready.

Hubby pulls the page off the Florida Health Department website each day.  There are apparently two forms of reports.....68 and 2000 page.  I think he pulls off the 68 page....there is a summary page in that someplace.
 

 

 

 

 

Thank you! Found this http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/action/report_archive/county/county_reports_latest.pdf

So state of Florida percent positive trending up every day - drop in cases last few days was fewer tests. 

[Lady Florida.]

Our county manager has ordered all employees to wear masks indoors if they either have contact with the public or with other employees. That leaves only a small number of those who work alone who don't have to wear masks at work. They obviously know that 1. Masks work. 2. Sometimes you have to make people do the right thing. If employees were already wearing masks they wouldn't need the order.

Our county commission has already decided not to close the beaches for the weekend of the 4th but this afternoon they'll be voting on a mask requirement. It would require everyone - employees and customers - to wear a mask at indoor businesses unless eating or exercising. I called my district commissioner and put in my yes vote. Still, I don't hold out much hope that they'll voter for one.

 

14 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

 

I wonder if they could limit beaches to locals.  Require ID or something.  Because I agree that generally opening up outdoor recreation for the people in a community is good, but encouraging people to travel to an area, and stay in hotels, and eat in restaurants, and use rest stops, isn't.  

 

 

 

Well, our county and some of the cities did that early on but there was no enforcement. They closed the parking lots as Katie said, but the crossovers were still open. There was no one checking IDs to see if you were local. Also,, our beaches are a mix of city and unincorporated county. Some of the cities had stricter protocols than the county itself. And one runs right into the other. For example, Cocoa Beach is a city that closed beaches. Drive south on A1A towards Patrick Air Force Base and you're in South Cocoa Beach, an unincorporated area run by the county that wasn't enforcing anything. It's nearly impossible if all of the communities aren't on the same page. Our sheriff, who openly admires Grady Judd and Joe Arapio, and whose own officers call him Sheriff Hollywood for his media stunts, stood in front of the county commissioners and said he would not make his people enforce any closed beach laws. 

 

14 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Yeah, but trust me, a lot of people use "going to the beach" to mean driving an hour to say, Cocoa, hitting the beach, hitting restaurants, shopping, maybe even getting hotel rooms and crowding into those, etc. 

Not just families driving 10 minutes and spacing out. 

And the way the beaches are in a lot of places, it's all or nothing, no on there to check ID on the hundreds of people going in and out, plus that would cause lines/crowding which is what we are trying to avoid. Just closing the parking lots works better with way less manpower. 

Yes, this. We get a lot of people from the Orlando area at our beaches. My cousin who lives in Seminole County will often go to New Smyrna Beach, (south of Daytona) but just as often will come to a Brevard County beach. And I really don't blame people. If you're going to drive an hour or more (so at least a two hour round trip) you don't want to just sit on the sand, go in the water a bit, then go home. Most likely you're going to hang out, eat, maybe go to a bar, and/or browse one of the shops like Ron Jon's Surf Shop. It's usually a day trip for Orlando area residents, not just an hour or two at the beach like it is for those of us who live nearby. 

 

13 hours ago, kdsuomi said:

They park on neighborhood streets. People already do this when the parking lot is full and in areas where using the parking lots costs money, so it was an automatic change. 

 

13 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Ah, yeah, you can't do that in the areas I've been. The streets along the beach are commercial, not residential, or if they are residential they are condos with private parking, etc. 

This too. I watched the launch with my brother and sil (we were masked and social distanced) from a condo they're watching for the absent owner. We could see the packed beach from the balcony. There was very little social distancing or masks. But re: parking. People kept trying to park on the street that dead ends at the beach and condo parking lot. There were sheriff deputies there in their cars, telling people they couldn't park and making them turn around. If you don't have either a resident or visitor tag to put on the windshield, you can't park anywhere other than the public lots.

[Lady Florida.]

And continuing the city vs. county thing, the city we just moved from last month (within the same county) is holding a meeting Thursday night to discuss a mask mandate. We could very likely end up with useless mixed mandates where it depends on your location within the county whether or not you have to wear a mask. 

[Acadie]

16 hours ago, square_25 said:

Hmmmm, how long do you think people stayed at protests? 

 

Ha, good point. We were in and out in an hour, but then there are protests lasting days or weeks....

16 hours ago, square_25 said:

And again, do you really think people will not congregate, if they were the sort to flout social distancing in the first place?? 

 

I'm not advocating for closing beaches and I didn't say people wouldn't congregate with beaches closed. My point was simply that even though both activities are outdoors, I see some routes of transmission with beachgoers that might be different than with protestors (though not the ones camped out for days).

[stephanier.1765]

http://www.fau.edu/newsdesk/articles/efficacy-facemasks-coronavirus.php

Effectiveness of face masks - Florida Atlantic University study

Importantly, uncovered emulated coughs were able to travel noticeably farther than the currently recommended 6-foot distancing guideline. Without a mask, droplets traveled more than 8 feet; with a bandana, they traveled 3 feet, 7 inches; with a folded cotton handkerchief, they traveled 1 foot, 3 inches; with the stitched quilted cotton mask, they traveled 2.5 inches; and with the cone-style mask, droplets traveled about 8 inches.  

Edited June 30, 2020 by stephanier.1765

[MEmama]

This might be the wrong thread for this, but since there are several Floridians here...What in the world is this all about?
https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2020/06/30/desantis-kills-online-learning-program-amid-virus-resurgence-1296178