When will you feel safe going out again?

[mommyoffive]

When will you feel safe going out again?  Letting your kids back to sports or activities?   Just getting back to what life was like a month ago?  

[Gobblygook]

That is a tough question because we have one child who is both medically fragile and disabled, so if medical resources are scarce, he is unlikely to get the care he needs. He’s needed a ventilator in the past for RSV and pneumonia so I fear that he may not do well with Covid-19. Our other kids have asthma which is a consideration as well. I don’t see an end to this without a proven vaccine which is obviously not going to be available anytime soon. 

[SKL]

I feel safe going out, always have.  I don't feel safe going around old people.  I think that will last until we stop seeing multiple new cases daily in my state.

[Ali in OR]

I think we'll have to go back to life before we feel "safe". I think school will start up next fall and I won't feel "safe" yet. I think it will be more like the 18 months they talk about before it feels ok to go out--when there is some herd immunity because many have had the illness and there is a vaccine available for the rest.

[Selkie]

22 minutes ago, SKL said:

I feel safe going out, always have.  I don't feel safe going around old people.  I think that will last until we stop seeing multiple new cases daily in my state.

Seeing news stories from the past several days, I don't feel safe being around people of any age. I've seen quite a few reports of otherwise healthy people in their 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s dying or in critical condition. Also stories of kids being very ill, and even tiny babies who are sick.

[Soror]

I will not feel safe doing normal activity until we get well on the other side of this curve, we're far, far away from that now as we're still increasing at a rapid rate.

[Arcadia]

For my kids activities that are now currently stop due to shelter in place, I would be comfortable when school start back again and the YMCAs/Parks & Recreations are in full swing of activities. They are only in two activities though, German class and tennis lessons. I would not sign them up for anything new in fall unless it is a short course at the sports center where they have tennis lessons. 

For my family, life would go back to normal when my healthcare providers feels that things are back to normal, like seasonal flu scenario. Hopefully my shopaholic husband would do less bargain hunting in stores. However, we do want to get some level of normalcy back like going to grocers and the library at our pre-shelter in place frequency.

[mathnerd]

I will feel safe only when the following is true:

- no more new cases reported in my area (our county has so many cases and deaths and we are also a magnet for daily Chinese tourist buses)

- a vaccine is approved for COVID-19 and is available to my family

- a drug is discovered that can safely treat infections of COVID-19 (I don't want to take Chloroquine or HIV drugs which seem to be the only viable options at this point and they are known to have serious side effects)

- a testing service is available where my family can walk in and get tested if they have symptoms

All of the above seem like a long time away.

Edited March 27, 2020 by mathnerd

[mommyoffive]

Just now, Arctic Mama said:

We have already been sick and recovered, so I’m pretty much comfortable going out and about any time the quarantines lift, since our most delicate members (myself and the preschooler) were the ones who were the most sick.

 

Did you guys test positive? 

[Paige]

Didn’t the most recent study on chloroquine say it made no statistical difference? The study was tiny but the results were not reassuring to me. Maybe one of the other drugs or a larger study will do better. 
 

I will feel safe when:

Hospitals, nurses, and doctors say they can handle the number and severity of patients they are seeing

The number of new patients decreases to a trickle and recovered cases outnumber active cases

When we have a vaccine or treatment that is more successful than placebo

When most other countries are reporting similar levels of success

 

 

 

[pitterpatter]

Never? (That's what it feels like right now.) Probably when a vaccine is proven effective for everyone. So, several weeks to a month after we've all been vaccinated. I do feel safe enough to go for a hike at a state park. I'm hoping the weather will be warm enough this weekend to do so. That's about all I feel safe doing right now, except maybe going for a Sunday drive, which I have no desire to do.

[prairiewindmomma]

1. When our hospitals have masks, gowns, and other PPE

2. When we are at least halfway down on the pandemic curve, and I have reasonable assurance there will be a ventilator for me

3. When the drugs I need to keep living are out of shortage and available

4. When masks are available to me so that I can re-enter the world safely with some protection (I normally have to mask up during influenza and other outbreaks of respiratory illness)

5. When my regular doctors and specialists are seeing patients again in a normal world

6. When we have enough testing (including antibodies) that people who fall ill can be quarantined and the rest of society can carry on around them

So, you know, in a South Korea situation.....testing results available in 15 minutes, including antibodies.

[Guest]

I think I will be scarce for a much longer while than the general public. I don’t think I will begin to feel something approaching “safe” until there is a vaccine and I have received it. 

I already know I have no intentions of traveling until there is a vax. 

Therefore I think my inclination to be “social” will be curbed hard for probably close to 2 years. I wonder sometimes how that will play out with things like: if my dd gets married, things like Christmas when we usually host attend parties with 25-50 people in a house, etc. 

I also already know some potential germ vectors that didn’t bother me before will now. 

[Pen]

24 minutes ago, Paige said:

Didn’t the most recent study on chloroquine say it made no statistical difference? The study was tiny but the results were not reassuring to me. Maybe one of the other drugs or a larger study will do better. 
 

I will feel safe when:

Hospitals, nurses, and doctors say they can handle the number and severity of patients they are seeing

The number of new patients decreases to a trickle and recovered cases outnumber active cases

When we have a vaccine or treatment that is more successful than placebo

When most other countries are reporting similar levels of success

 

 

 

 

More study is needed, however, hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin in preliminary small study in France looks very promising if treatment is given early enough.

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Hydroxychloroquine_final_DOI_IJAA.pdf

 

The WSJ overhyped it, I think, but it *is* extremely promising. 

It is hydroxychloroquine, not chloroquine that is showing the excellent preliminary results in combination with azithromycin.

However reading study carefully, several people died or ended up in ICU if they were not treated early enough. (They are treated as “drop outs” from the study allowing a claim of 100% success, but dying on day 3 isn’t what I normally think of as “dropping out” of a study. )

And For 1 mother son family apparently the treatment did not work.  

 

[prairiewindmomma]

I see a lot of mixup between hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine in discussion.  Hydroxychloroquine is the friendly cousin of chloroquine.  Both are effective, but hydroxychloroquine is more so.  Chloroquine has a lot of side effects. Hydroxychloroquine has fewer---but it can still cause your Qt heart rhythm to change, nausea, weight gain, hair loss, and blindness.  Your greatest risk of blindness is when first starting the drug or when you've been on it for a long time. Azirthromycin also messes with the Qt heart rhythm. Outside of a deadly pandemic, you would never mix the two. 

For everyone who is so excited about hydroxychloroquine, it's already in such shortage that a lot of rheumatology patients can't get what they need.  I expect a lot of lupus patients to end up with kidney issues because of this. 😞 https://www.arthritis.org/drug-guide/medication-topics/plaquenil-shortage  https://creakyjoints.org/treatment/hydroxychloroquine-shortage-coronavirus-impact-lupus-rheumatoid-arthritis/

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

We couldn’t get tested as we didn’t need hospitalization.  The likelihood based on who exposed me and the symptoms and timeline is extremely high.

But until they do an antibody test there is no way to verify, but it was a presumptive positive.

 

53 minutes ago, kand said:

We were presumptive positives here as well, based on the guidelines

I'm confused by how you two are using "presumptive positive." In my state the term "presumptive positive" was being used a week or two ago to mean that someone had tested positive on a test done at the state lab, but that test had not yet been confirmed by a CDC test. They dropped that terminology after the CDC stopped requiring confirmation. But I'm gathering you all are using it as "I assume what I (or we) had was Covid 19"? Is that right?

 

10 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

 

For everyone who is so excited about hydroxychloroquine, it's already in such shortage that a lot of rheumatology patients can't get what they need.  I expect a lot of lupus patients to end up with kidney issues because of this. 😞 https://www.arthritis.org/drug-guide/medication-topics/plaquenil-shortage  https://creakyjoints.org/treatment/hydroxychloroquine-shortage-coronavirus-impact-lupus-rheumatoid-arthritis/

Ditto. Too many people on the RA/lupus/Sjogren's boards I belong to are having a truly awful time trying to get the medication that they really, really need. People should be ashamed, especially the docs that are (reportedly) writing prescriptions for themselves and their family/friends "just in case." I'm hearing that some pharmacists are holding some back for their regular customers who need it for AI diseases. Good for them.

[Paige]

40 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

More study is needed, however, hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin in preliminary small study in France looks very promising if treatment is given early enough.

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Hydroxychloroquine_final_DOI_IJAA.pdf

 

The WSJ overhyped it, I think, but it *is* extremely promising. 

It is hydroxychloroquine, not chloroquine that is showing the excellent preliminary results in combination with azithromycin.

However reading study carefully, several people died or ended up in ICU if they were not treated early enough. (They are treated as “drop outs” from the study allowing a claim of 100% success, but dying on day 3 isn’t what I normally think of as “dropping out” of a study. )

And For 1 mother son family apparently the treatment did not work.  

 

But then you have this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/tarahaelle/2020/03/25/chloroquine-use-for-covid-19-shows-no-benefit-in-first-small-but-limited-controlled-trial/amp/

They didn’t use the antibiotic which may make a difference, but perhaps it is the antibiotic alone that counts for the improvement and hydroxychloroquine makes no difference. Bottom line for me is that both studies are too small for me to want to mix and mingle and trust they’ll work for me or anyone I may unintentionally infect.

Only 20 patients received the treatment in the European study and only 6 of those for the antibiotic which is supposed to  be even better- 6!  I am hopeful it proves effective but IMO it’s way too soon to say we have an effective treatment. 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Paige

[Pen]

31 minutes ago, Paige said:

But then you have this: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/tarahaelle/2020/03/25/chloroquine-use-for-covid-19-shows-no-benefit-in-first-small-but-limited-controlled-trial/amp/

They didn’t use the antibiotic which may make a difference, but perhaps it is the antibiotic alone that counts for the improvement and hydroxychloroquine makes no difference. Bottom line for me is that both studies are too small for me to want to mix and mingle and trust they’ll work for me or anyone I may unintentionally infect.

 

OMG—- absolutely!

Having a possibly promising treatment in no way indicates that people should be mixing and mingling!!!

Quote

Only 20 patients received the treatment in the European study and only 6 of those for the antibiotic which is supposed to  be even better- 6!  I am hopeful it proves effective but IMO it’s way too soon to say we have an effective treatment. 

 

“More studies are needed.”

And yes, resistance to the treatments being developed by viruses, bacteria, or parasites etc is a real and serious concern ... 

I hope they will do some in NYC.

There is apparently a group of countries including Switzerland and I forget where else going to be joining together to run studies on a variety of possible treatments  

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Pen
No way! Not now!

[Jenny in Florida]

I don't personally feel unsafe now. 

Let me be clear: I am in no way suggesting this is a hoax or overblown or anything like that. It is a serious situation, and I believe caution is absolutely appropriate. 

I, personally, given my current environment, family situation and health condition do not personally feel unsafe going out as long as I take reasonable precautions such as maintaining prudent distance from other people, avoiding large groups, washing hands frequently, etc.

Also, something I realized yesterday when I had a no-good, very-bad afternoon and evening and entirely too much time to think, is being still so close to my cancer surgery and treatment, I don't really feel out of the woods there yet and am struggling to balance my genuine concern about this virus with my frustration at having one. more. thing. in the way of my attempts to get back to something like a normal life.

If I had young children or medically fragile housemates or something, I'm sure I would feel differently.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Jenny in Florida

[maize]

3 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

 

 

5 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

We couldn’t get tested as we didn’t need hospitalization.  The likelihood based on who exposed me and the symptoms and timeline is extremely high.

But until they do an antibody test there is no way to verify, but it was a presumptive positive.

I would not count on that.

I was symtomatic enough to be tested this week (my state has ramped up testing) and caught my infection from someone who had been traveling.

Test was negative.

Only five percent of tests are coming back positive here, which means that symptoms just are not differentiable from other respiratory viruses--even by the medical professionals who have to recommend for testing.

I think we all have to assume we have not had this unless we get a positive test (or until that needed antibody test becomes available).

[Shoeless]

I will feel safe when a vaccine is available.  It's going to be a long, long time before I get on a plane again.  I would consider driving my own vehicle to visit relatives maybe in the fall. 

I still have no idea what I will do about playdates or activities in the future. I am the only family I know that vaccinates here, and several families have already declared they will refuse a COVID-19 vax when one is developed.  Even worse, some of them are actively protesting the development of a vaccine and are writing state representatives to tell them how a vaccine isn't needed and is a waste of tax dollars. 

Before the pandemic hit, husband and I had talked about moving out of state in a year or two. The way I feel right now, I'd like to move to a state with really strict homeschool regs that require vaccines, because I am 100% over the casual attitude toward learning, science, and health care that is all around me. There are many nice, likable people here, but I'm not willing to risk our health any more. 

Edited March 26, 2020 by MissLemon

[Joker]

We ordered takeout for the first time in weeks tonight. Considering how difficult that was for me, I'm thinking it's going to be a while. Probably until a vaccine or proven meds are available.

 

[DesertBlossom]

I don't know. But I made a grocery store run yesterday and was a little freaked out to see that life was going on a normal. I think maybe I expected zombies or something. 

[DesertBlossom]

1 hour ago, maize said:

 

I would not count on that.

I was symtomatic enough to be tested this week (my state has ramped up testing) and caught my infection from someone who had been traveling.

Test was negative.

Only five percent of tests are coming back positive here, which means that symptoms just are not differentiable from other respiratory viruses--even by the medical professionals who have to recommend for testing.

I think we all have to assume we have not had this unless we get a positive test (or until that needed antibody test becomes available).

My otherwise healthy brother was hospitalized for 3 days with pneumonia. His first COVID test from 10 days ago is not back. I think they either lost it or lied about testing him. The hospital did another one 3 days ago but we have not heard results. 

The strangest thing to me is that they are saying it is not COVID based on his xrays. Two different doctors in 2 different hospitals who looked at them said COVID pneumonia presents differently than regular pneumonia. I haven't seen that anywhere online though. 

I am seriously questioning the numbers that being published about our state though. 

[alisoncooks]

3 hours ago, Jenny in Florida said:

I don't personally feel unsafe now. 

Let me be clear: I am in no way suggesting this is a hoax or overblown or anything like that. It is a serious situation, and I believe caution is absolutely appropriate. 

I, personally, given my current environment, family situation and health condition do not personally feel unsafe going out as long as I take reasonable precautions such as maintaining prudent distance from other people, avoiding large groups, washing hands frequently, etc.

Also, something I realized yesterday when I had a no-good, very-bad afternoon and evening and entirely too much time to think, is being still so close to my cancer surgery and treatment, I don't really feel out of the woods there yet and am struggling to balance my genuine concern about this virus with my frustration at having one. more. thing. in the way of my attempts to get back to something like a normal life.

If I had young children or medically fragile housemates or something, I'm sure I would feel differently.

Same. We are not avoiding stores (I can't get online order/pickup times, so we're having to go in for groceries, more than 1x a week). I've been to the post office. DD had her wisdom teeth out on Monday. We're getting takeout at our fave, locally-owned diner (because we want them to still be around when this is over). 

Usually, only one of us goes out. We wash hands when we get home. No face touching, leaving space between others who are out and about. That's it for now. I don't feel unsafe* or fearful; just cautious. 

*this is subject to change

[madteaparty]

We go out everyday. The question is when will I feel comfortable enough with things like the subway. I was never super-comfortable with it and this might have cured me for good. 

 

[May]

I don’t feel unsafe now. DH and I take the precautions, as instructed, but that’s about it. 

[AmandaVT]

I have been only going back and forth from my house to the office my husband and I are currently taking turns sharing while school is out. We both get out of the house, but don't have to see people in person, which is nice. Today, I needed to make a grocery run and I felt very - exposed. I made sure not to touch my face. Washed my hands before and after putting groceries away and then put my clothes in the wash and put on fresh. Possibly overkill, but it made me feel slightly better.

[SKL]

For those who won't feel safe until there is a vax or similar, how did you feel safe going out before Coronavirus?

[mommyoffive]

41 minutes ago, SKL said:

For those who won't feel safe until there is a vax or similar, how did you feel safe going out before Coronavirus?

 

In regards to what?  Everything? 

[Miguelsmom]

At home for 11 days now. We wont go out until we run out of food. Even then if they start up delivery again then we'll do that or just to the store down the street and home. We're all at risk here. I won't feel safe until a vax, drug trials and hospital availability.  I'm thinking late fall. I've already informed my son he would be doing online classes in the fall and we'll assess it every semester. A common cold kicks their butt (asthma) I can't imagine what this will do.   

[Paige]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

For those who won't feel safe until there is a vax or similar, how did you feel safe going out before Coronavirus?

I felt pretty safe; no significant worries. I have asthma but it is usually not anything that interferes with life. It only acts up when triggered by viruses and has never sent me to the ER or anything, I don't wheeze, and I have never felt like I actually can't breathe. Exercise doesn't trigger me and I don't have allergies. Most viruses pass through our family with little damage and I'm not the type to go to a doctor unless I have to.

I think my risk of being more seriously ill than I've ever been if I get covid 19 is pretty high. My risks with the flu? Not even in the dimension. I think my mom, dad, and FIL's risks are also very high- with heart conditions and asthma. I think my MIL with diabetes and high blood pressure would die. My two kids who were premature- significant risk. I have another DD on an immune suppressant. I wouldn't expect any of us would be likely to need hospitalization with a flu or random virus- all of us are in generally good health. I know healthy people die of flu every year but it's pretty rare. 

[Meriwether]

I personally feel safe now. I am older but not old. My husband and kids are very healthy and would likely have mild or asymptomatic cases. We stay home to protect others. I will feel comfortable going out when either 1) treatment is more effective and hospital beds are available or 2) it is so widespread that going about my business will be unlikely to change anything. If it is a case of number two, we will still be more careful but not homebound.

[mathnerd]

4 hours ago, SKL said:

For those who won't feel safe until there is a vax or similar, how did you feel safe going out before Coronavirus?

Before Coronavirus, I expected medical care in case of emergencies and took it for granted: if I fell critically ill, I might find transportation to my doctor and they might have put me in a hospital bed and given me the treatment necessary to have a good chance at recovery. That made me feel safe when I went out to volunteer at the height of flu season every year even though I have had lung issues in the past.

But now, there are no gloves, no masks, no ventilators, not enough drugs to treat covid, not enough hospital beds and since this is super-contagious, if I got infected, my entire family will be infected me, I am sure! So, I do not feel safe now.

[BTW/ there is a family that I know of who had 2 kids with both parents working (in their 40's). The kids' maternal grandparents (in their early 70's) visited from England in early February to stay with them and help them out for 2 months. Long story short: the maternal grandfather fell ill 4 days after arrival and got pneumonia and died on the same week, since at that time there was no "epidemic" and no test for Covid-19, his cause of death was pneumonia. Then, the otherwise healthy parents of the kids who had no underlying conditions and are in their 40's got diagnosed with covid-19 infections and are hospitalized and it looks like the mom will not make it. The grandmother is at home in quarantine with 2 kids and everyone in the neighborhood is pitching in to drop off food etc. This is one of the reasons that I don't feel safe to go out before a vaccination is available.]

Edited March 27, 2020 by mathnerd

[Liz CA]

10 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Basically “we can’t get you tested, don’t go in unless the breathing issues get worse”.  
 

I had direct, extended contact exposure to someone hacking up their lungs, whose roommates had been overseas in an East Asian country and traveling through multiple airports during the worst spikes, who herself was showing symptoms before much testing was spooled up here.  And then got sick with symptoms that don’t fit either a cold or allergies for me, and got very sick, for two weeks. 
 

There are all sorts of people saying all sorts of things, but in our case, we got hit early enough there were no community tests available in this area.  Now I’m better, finally, and have been clear of symptoms for about five-ish days.  The kids got better faster, but my body was still pretty shot from all my pregnancy drama and I’m still dealing with hypertensive issues and autoimmune, so I’m not in a great risk category for this.

 

But. Anyway. Until we have a good antibody test we won’t know for certain, since there still isn’t easily available community testing in this area and I didn’t need emergency medical services for this.
 

 

 

Similar scenario here. I work in the greater medical field. We saw clients face to face up to 03/17. End of January until Feb 20th I had horrid symptoms that started out looking like a cold but would not budge. I eventually fully recovered from whatever it was. A coworker had nearly same symptoms I had and she is fairly convinced we had it prior to anyone testing. When I walked into Urgent Care mid February, only people who had just been in China were tested. 

I may never know but as far as the original questions goes, I think once new cases taper off across the country, I will start feeling safer again. I don't feel particularly threatened now but I am probably not in the high risk category yet. And I generally don't tend to get too worried about things I cannot control, justifiably or foolishly so.

[Tap]

Once we have a proven vaccine, I will feel like I do during a normal flu season. Cautious, but not overwhelmed with concern. 

[Shoeless]

3 hours ago, SKL said:

For those who won't feel safe until there is a vax or similar, how did you feel safe going out before Coronavirus?

 

I felt safe going out before COVID-19 because I am fully vaccinated against the things that are most likely to kill me, thus dramatically reducing the odds of serious illness or death. I also did not have to worry about whether or not the hospital system would have enough doctors and nurses to treat me if somehow I did contract a life-threatening illness. 

[easypeasy]

At this point, never. I didn't love being out in public al that much to begin with. Give me my cozy house and the people I most love, and I'm good.

Combine that with Returning anxiety that I had beaten back... and I don't want to let anyone out of my sight ever again. 
 

Luckily, my kids are old. Two are already legal adults and the third will follow this year. So, they'll go when they feel ready & they will be respectful of their poor, stressed mother to be gentle about it.
 

I will peep my head out only when I have to for a while. This has pushed me back to my old, recluse ways and now without small, extroverted children to pull me out of my shell, I have no reason to fight it!

[J-rap]

16 hours ago, Paige said:

Didn’t the most recent study on chloroquine say it made no statistical difference? The study was tiny but the results were not reassuring to me. Maybe one of the other drugs or a larger study will do better. 
 

I will feel safe when:

Hospitals, nurses, and doctors say they can handle the number and severity of patients they are seeing

The number of new patients decreases to a trickle and recovered cases outnumber active cases

When we have a vaccine or treatment that is more successful than placebo

When most other countries are reporting similar levels of success

 

 

 

I know first-hand that studies are still ongoing about this, and I believe it's still hopeful that some anti-malarial type drugs can be helpful.

[J-rap]

I would feel safe going out today, so I guess the question I'd ask myself instead is "when would I feel it's okay to go out based on how this affects my community and beyond?"

I trust our state's government along with the medical field in our state (Mayo, University of Minnesota) to guide that decision.

(ETA:  By my feeling safe today, I don't mean believing that I wouldn't get the coronavirus today.  But it's not something that I, personally, am concerned about regarding just me.  I'm quite sure that I (and most people) will get it eventually and I don't worry about how sick I might get.  But I would never, ever want to pass it on to anyone else or overload the healthcare system.)

Edited March 27, 2020 by J-rap

[Pawz4me]

4 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

 

I find it hard because the categories are so broad.  I have two kids in that "chronic respiratory disease".  One uses a ventilator 24/7, and needs all sorts of other respiratory support.  The other coughs when he gets a bad cold, or is exposed to tree pollen, but an inhaler takes care of it easily.  Obviously their levels of risk are not the same. So, do I assume that the risk for my kid with mild asthma are lower than 6% to make up for people like his brother, or elderly people with COPD, etc . . . whose risks are way higher?  

I totally agree. I'm (supposedly) immune compromised because of the biologic medication I'm on for RA. But other than RA/that medication AFAIK I'm healthy for my age. I don't think I'm in any way as at risk as someone whose immune system is compromised due to strong chemo. And yet they're lumped together. I guess at this point the broad categories are due to lack of data. They just don't have enough to really know.

As far as not feeling safe now versus before C19--My main reason is lack of access to health care if needed. Most hospitals in the US run very close to capacity all the time, but before C19, except for a couple of months during winter during the very worst flu years, I had no reason at all to ever worry about not having access to whatever health care I might require. Not so now. And potential lack of access to health care goes for C19, a heart attack, a broken bone, anything. All across the country ATM treatment for cancer patients (including my DH) is being put on hold if at all possible. That tells me a LOT about how worried docs are about C19, and about how swamped hospital systems are or anticipate being.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, SKL said:

For those who won't feel safe until there is a vax or similar, how did you feel safe going out before Coronavirus?

I felt safe because there was a very low likelihood of contracting and passing around a contagious disease that could surely kill multiple people I care about. I am vaccinated against other life-threatening diseases. My kids are, too. 

I live a very careful type of life. My lifestyle is quite healthy and is much more likely to extend my life than end it. Of course none of us knows what insidious illness could crop up or some freak accident or crime that could befall us, but psychologically healthy people don’t dwell on those unknowns.

But a contagion for which nobody in the world has immunity? That scares the hell out of me! That shadow is definitely going to hang over me until I know I and millions of others are vaccinated and therefore are firewalling against this disease. 

[happypamama]

I think I will feel safe when the number of new cases is dropping/has dropped, and when the doctors and hospitals are back to their normal routines of appointments, visitors, etc., or when they decide that things are back to normal and that they like the general precautions and are sticking to them. (If they all decide that stricter limits on visitors and more telemedicine is a good thing, then fine.)  

[SKL]

8 hours ago, kand said:

I’m confused by the question. Are you saying the risk seems the same to you now as always?

Not today, but once this disease passes its peak and there are no shortages like today, it won't be different from how this country was before Coronavirus this year.  Lots of kids spreading flu, strep, and other things at a higher rate than normal.  Some schools even temporarily closed because of it.  Flu kills tens of thousands (including vaccinated people) even in a good year.  And we will have and have had other bad viruses worse than the average flu, and for which there were no vaccines.  So I am trying to get a feel for what is triggering this zero tolerance attitude for this particular virus.

[Joker]

8 minutes ago, SKL said:

Not today, but once this disease passes its peak and there are no shortages like today, it won't be different from how this country was before Coronavirus this year.  Lots of kids spreading flu, strep, and other things at a higher rate than normal.  Some schools even temporarily closed because of it.  Flu kills tens of thousands (including vaccinated people) even in a good year.  And we will have and have had other bad viruses worse than the average flu, and for which there were no vaccines.  So I am trying to get a feel for what is triggering this zero tolerance attitude for this particular virus.

It's not just the virus. I would not get good medical care now for anything where I live so I am being cautious. News here is only talking about positive cases and deaths but conveniently leaving out conditions in our hospitals. My mom works in the largest hospital group here, though, and I know from her that it is an awful situation right now. They are overwhelmed.

Also, anyone who thinks they aren't high risk for this virus isn't really paying attention. None of us know how it will affect us as there are young healthy people on ventilators and dying from it. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Joker

[SKL]

Not to be cynical, but the fact is that we have had and will continue to have other new viruses etc that don't have vaccines.  Some of them have been and will be pretty deadly.

I'm not saying today is the same as any other day, but this idea that we never go out unless vaccinated against every possibility is new.

[Joker]

1 minute ago, SKL said:

Not to be cynical, but the fact is that we have had and will continue to have other new viruses etc that don't have vaccines.  Some of them have been and will be pretty deadly.

I'm not saying today is the same as any other day, but this idea that we never go out unless vaccinated against every possibility is new.

But our hospitals don't become completely overwhelmed with every new virus, and not even with the flu during bad years. This one is different.

[SKL]

1 minute ago, Joker said:

It's not just the virus. I would not get good medical care now for anything where I live so I am being cautious. News here is only talking about positive cases and deaths but conveniently leaving out conditions in our hospitals. My mom works in the largest hospital group here, though, and I know from her that it is an awful situation right now. They are overwhelmed.

Also, anyone who thinks they aren't high risk for this virus isn't really paying attention. None of us know how it will affect us as there are young healthy people on ventilators and dying from it. 

Yes, some hospitals are overwhelmed and waiting for supplies right now.  But this will resolve long before there is a vax for this virus.

As for the concept of "high risk," you seem to be talking about "any risk at all."  Personally I don't think a normal person can live life refusing to accept "any risk at all."  My life has many risks that I can't control, including drunk drivers, criminals, undetected health issues, and accidents, as well as new viruses that I might encounter.  Living life is a risk, one we really must take.

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, Joker said:

But our hospitals don't become completely overwhelmed with every new virus, and not even with the flu during bad years. This one is different.

Again - this will peak and then the overwhelm will not be an issue - before there is a vax for everyone.  So for some people, who say they still won't feel safe enough after the peak, apparently the overwhelm is not the only issue.  What else is different compared to before coronavirus?

[SKL]

1 minute ago, Happymomof1 said:

 

My husband is a doctor.  This virus is different.  It is MUCH MUCH more contagious.  I didn't really know anyone who died of the flu, except maybe an elderly member of the congregation and even that I'm not sure.  I have only gotten the flu once, I think.  I do not remember doctors/nurses here getting the flu, and certainly none that died from it.  In Boston alone there are 150 that have Covid.  And many have died from it.  THAT is very different.  Also, many more people that get the virus have SIGNIFICANT breathing issues/need to be on a vent.  THAT is very different.  I do not live in fear.  Or at least I haven't.  This virus with all of its unknowns is scary.  

You don't know of the flu being very widespread, but 10-50% of the population get symptomatic cases every year, and that doesn't include people who aren't considered sick but are either asymptomatic or carriers.  You don't know of health care workers getting it, but they certainly do.

The reason you "don't know" about these things is because they are not considered a big deal in the USA i.e. the news does not report them.  The news doesn't report on any of the biggest causes of death in the USA.  When was the last time you heard the news report daily death statistics on cancer, heart attack, pneumonia, flu, car accidents, or suicide?

Yes I know this virus is different, but it will peak and the overwhelm will be a thing of the past.

Unknowns can be scary, yes.  Maybe this incident is reminding people about unknowns that they had taught themselves to ignore up until now.