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fairfarmhand

S/o International people views on Americans

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1 hour ago, StellaM said:

OK, let me preface by saying that there is a lot I admire about America/American culture. 

For starters, nearly all my favourite poets are American. Many of my favourite novelists. Essayists. Musicians. Your art culture is vibrant. 

I have American friends (Americans who now live or have lived in AU) who are the loveliest people. I have never cried so hard as I did when one of my American friends left for the States.

My favourite posters here are American (and Canadian, and Australian!)

Phew. (Hope no-one will jump on me now!)

Because, frankly, if that isn't enough, then nothing is enough. I have never, even seen a single US poster bend over backwards like that to an non US poster.

 

See my thought it I wouldn’t need to, because I would never knowingly say something offensive and stereotyped about another country or poster.  That just isn’t done in my circles, not even jokingly unless it’s clearly an inside thing.  My view is if I’d have to preface it with that much soft pedaling it’s better unsaid.

I don’t understand the punching up thing either - I don’t view a political figure or star I dislike as fair game for that either, though.  I’m pretty careful with satire and mockery in general because it can be cutting and mean and just isn’t appropriate for a Christian to engage in.  So I do a lot of mental consideration of certain types of humor because for me that can be a big inadvertent pitfall.

This could be a cultural difference between us, for sure.  But plenty of Americans on this thread were okay with it, which is what I was trying to wrap my brain around as maybe being some perception difference in the appropriateness of repeating a stereotype. I’m not particularly patriotic and I’ve lived abroad and traveled some, as well as having lived in very different corners of my own country.  I’m not unaware of how to be a decent world citizen when outside my own comfort zone.  And repeating things that could be construed as insulting or hurtful is beyond what I’ve been conditioned is polite and appropriate.

Obviously we won’t see eye to eye on this, that’s okay.  I’m not particularly interested in ‘getting my way’ so much as just trying to understand where I was disconnecting on this ever being an ‘okay’ topic to indulge in with polite company.  My brain was going “what...?”

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Just now, happysmileylady said:

So basically “talk to American” manners involve a lot of clarification of specifics, disclaimers that the discussion doesn’t apply to specific people, and for goodness sake please take a joke?

 

Nah. That's poor quality talking to Americans manners. 🙂 Good quality talking to Americans manners will require none of that because we would have stayed silent.

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3 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

See my thought it I wouldn’t need to, because I would never knowingly say something offensive and stereotypes about another country or poster.  That just isn’t done in my circles, not even jokingly unless it’s clearly an inside thing.  My view is if I’d have to preface it with that much soft pedaling it’s better unsaid.

I don’t understand the punching up thing either - I don’t view a political figure or star I dislike as fair game for that either, though.  I’m pretty careful with satire and mockery in general because it can be cutting and mean and just isn’t appropriate for a Christian to engage in.  So I do a lot of mental consideration of certain types of humor because for me that can be a big inadvertent pitfall.

This could be a cultural difference between us, for sure.  But plenty of Americans on this thread were okay with it, which is what I was trying to wrap my brain around as maybe being some perception difference in the appropriateness of repeating a stereotype. I’m not particularly patriotic and I’ve lived abroad and traveled some, as well as having lived in very different corners of my own country.  I’m not unaware of how to be a decent world citizen when outside my own comfort zone.  And repeating things that could be construed as insulting or hurtful is beyond what I’ve been conditioned is polite and appropriate.

Obviously we won’t see eye to eye on this, that’s okay.  I’m not particularly interested in ‘getting my way’ so much as just trying to understand where I was disconnecting on this ever being an ‘okay’ topic to indulge in with polite company.  My brain was going “what...?”

I guess we thought we were talking to friends

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4 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Obviously we won’t see eye to eye on this, that’s okay.  I’m not particularly interested in ‘getting my way’ so much as just trying to understand where I was disconnecting on this ever being an ‘okay’ topic to indulge in with polite company.  My brain was going “what...?”

 

Okay, I'm only explaining this because I think you might be asking.

This thread isn't "polite company" by your definition.

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2 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Nah, in our dialect, redneck and bogan are not synonymous. Bogan is very much an urban term.

I'm at a loss, then. I can't even think of a term we use in urban centres in Canada that translates "bogan."  Strange. Maybe ours is more of a city folk/country folk class system. Or maybe I'm from the bogan class and have yet to meet "the upper class" in my cities and therefore never heard or over-heard the term.

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2 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Nah. That's poor quality talking to Americans manners. 🙂 Good quality talking to Americans manners will require none of that because we would have stayed silent.

So, what you are saying is that most non Americans who hold negative views of Americans do so at least in part (perhaps in large part) because they believe Americans are overly sensitive and get hyper offended about every little thing?

 

IOW....don’t say thing Americans might think offensive?

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7 hours ago, annegables said:

As long as we are talking about fashion... If the tennis shoes (sneakers) are super weird (not just different colors, but more trendy), it was a European wearing them, both where I live in the US and abroad. Most of the US tourists seemed to have gotten the memo about white sneakers when I was there. I almost never saw a pair! 

But in France, I saw a ton of leggings and skinny jeans on Europeans. 

Hey, out here on the left coast, those Nike and Addidas retro white continentals tennis shoes.  er Rod Laver's.  are the hottest things for high school.

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2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

So, what you are saying is that most non Americans who hold negative views of Americans do so at least in part (perhaps in large part) because they believe Americans are overly sensitive and get hyper offended about every little thing?

 

IOW....don’t say thing Americans might think offensive?

 

We've got a bit more nuance than that!

Not most Americans. A statistically significant amount.
Not every little thing. Certain types of things.

But your last sentence, basically yes.

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6 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

See my thought it I wouldn’t need to, because I would never knowingly say something offensive and stereotyped about another country or poster.  That just isn’t done in my circles, not even jokingly unless it’s clearly an inside thing.  My view is if I’d have to preface it with that much soft pedaling it’s better unsaid.

I don’t understand the punching up thing either - I don’t view a political figure or star I dislike as fair game for that either, though.  I’m pretty careful with satire and mockery in general because it can be cutting and mean and just isn’t appropriate for a Christian to engage in.  So I do a lot of mental consideration of certain types of humor because for me that can be a big inadvertent pitfall.

This could be a cultural difference between us, for sure.  But plenty of Americans on this thread were okay with it, which is what I was trying to wrap my brain around as maybe being some perception difference in the appropriateness of repeating a stereotype. I’m not particularly patriotic and I’ve lived abroad and traveled some, as well as having lived in very different corners of my own country.  I’m not unaware of how to be a decent world citizen when outside my own comfort zone.  And repeating things that could be construed as insulting or hurtful is beyond what I’ve been conditioned is polite and appropriate.

Obviously we won’t see eye to eye on this, that’s okay.  I’m not particularly interested in ‘getting my way’ so much as just trying to understand where I was disconnecting on this ever being an ‘okay’ topic to indulge in with polite company.  My brain was going “what...?”

 

What have people said that you see as offensive, insulting, or hurtful? I'm genuinely asking, because I don't consider it offensive or even impolite to acknowledge that American tourists tend to come across as loud, over-confident, and often less than respectful of local customs. That is how a lot of Americans act when abroad — why is it insulting to mention that reality? Why does politeness require ignoring reality and refusing to answer someone's genuine question?

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4 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

 

What have people said that you see as offensive, insulting, or hurtful? I'm genuinely asking, because I don't consider it offensive or even impolite to acknowledge that American tourists tend to come across as loud, over-confident, and often less than respectful of local customs. That is how a lot of Americans act when abroad — why is it insulting to mention that reality? Why does politeness require ignoring reality and refusing to answer someone's genuine question?

 

Not to be rude, but Arctic has explained quite thoroughly. What part of her explanation is missing? 
(I'm only asking because another explanation would probably still miss whatever pieces of the puzzle you're missing.)

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1 hour ago, StellaM said:

 

Look at my first post in this thread. 

It's not exactly direct, is it ? It's full of caveats meant to reassure an American audience that I appreciate many things about them/their culture. I don't normally talk like that. That's 'American manners'. And yeah, the caveats ? True, but also expressed to avoid American backlash (which didn't work, but hey)

(I'm not actually the best example, tbh, but it's clear in this thread).

So are you saying that Aussies are generally to the point and blunt when talking with each other?  

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1 hour ago, Mbelle said:

As an american who goes to Aus a lot and is married to one....

Australians tease and make fun of each other A LOT from my perspective.  They also use a lot of sarcasm.  Of course certain parts of the US use sarcasm too, but where I live it's used much less often and milder.  Anyway, all that can come across as a bit of bullying if you aren't used to it.   It's like many things with a cultural difference it's just the way it is, 

This is very helpful.  At first I thought people were whitewashing things for us or something.  I wasn't sure what that meant. 

Yes, I can see that as being misinterpreted by Americans.   My sister and her husband tease and make fun of each other a lot too (both Americans)... and I find it hard to listen too because it's just not the way my dh and I communicate.  I think my dh would be deeply offended if I did that. 

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21 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

We've got a bit more nuance than that!

Not most Americans. A statistically significant amount.
Not every little thing. Certain types of things.

But your last sentence, basically yes.

Do non Americans have “talking to...” code for everyone not of their own culture? “.  Like “talking to South Africans” manners?   Do Oeople from the UK have “talking to Australians” manners?   Do Australians have “ talking to Britians” manners?   Do New Zealanders have “Talking to Australians” manners?

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Just now, StellaM said:

 

Do you want the real answer, the fake answer, or the 'I'll take this as rhetorical and stay silent' answer ?

of course, I want the real answer...but if you'd rather you can PM me..  Since others might be offended.  

 

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One thing to consider is the overarching culture difference of working class culture vs middle class culture.  I'm not talking about how much money families earn, but the general culture of Aus vs US.  This makes a big difference in our values about different things.  

The other thing is that social cohesion is much more important in Australia than the US. Even more so in Tasmania because that is a known characteristic of island life most anywhere.  

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16 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Do New Zealanders have “Talking to Australians” manners?

I was shocked when I first went to Aus to find out how much these 2 countries get on each others nerves.  It is well beyond US/Canada (although I'm southern and Canada is so far away that kind of thing doesn't really exist here like border states)   Anyway, when I first went to AUS I heard how the Kiwi's were weird, had a chip on their shoulder and defensive and there's something wrong with them.  I couldn't believe it.  I thought they were making it up, but they weren't.

edited:  I mean by making it up that I thought they were Aussie teasing.

Edited by Mbelle

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13 minutes ago, PrincessMommy said:

So are you saying that Aussies are generally to the point and blunt when talking with each other?  

 

Not particularly. I think there is a lot of "don't say things that other people don't want to hear." 

Stella and I doing the Melbourne v Sydney thing is an accepted pattern, so we both know there's nothing to be offended about. Each culture knows it's own accepted smart arsery patterns. 

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11 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Do non Americans have “talking to...” code for everyone not of their own culture? “.  Like “talking to South Africans” manners?   Do Oeople from the UK have “talking to Australians” manners?   Do Australians have “ talking to Britians” manners?   Do New Zealanders have “Talking to Australians” manners?

 

Talking to Americans manners differs from talking to other non-Australians manners. 
Can't comment on what New Zealanders think. Mostly we're in a shame spiral about them because they've got a better prime minister than we have.

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1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I seriously hurt someone's feelings once by making a joke about how gross pumpkin pie is a couple of years in a row. *This* is the first time I have said anything about pumpkin pie in years. She was devastated. About a joke about me not liking pumpkin pie.

 

But pumpkin pie *is* gross. You aren't wrong, lol

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7 minutes ago, Mbelle said:

I was shocked when I first went to Aus to find out how much these 2 countries get on each others nerves.  It is well beyond US/Canada (although I'm southern and Canada is so far away that kind of thing doesn't really exist here like border states)   Anyway, when I first went to AUS I heard how the Kiwi's were weird, had a chip on their shoulder and defensive and there's something wrong with them.  I couldn't believe it.  I thought they were making it up, but they weren't.

edited:  I mean by making it up that I thought they were Aussie teasing.

 

I assume the New Zealanders hate us because we are mean to them about taxes and their prime minister is better than theirs, which I believe to be objectively true even for those who vote against her.

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5 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Talking to Americans manners differs from talking to other non-Australians manners. 
Can't comment on what New Zealanders think. Mostly we're in a shame spiral about them because they've got a better prime minister than we have.

Well yes, I would presume they are different.  What I am asking is if Austrailians (or other cultures) specifically use particular manners/mannerisms/vocabulary/etc with cultures not their own.  

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Just now, happysmileylady said:

Well yes, I would presume they are different.  What I am asking is if Austrailians (or other cultures) specifically use particular manners/mannerisms/vocabulary/etc with cultures not their own.  

 

I have not answered the question sufficiently?

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2 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

I have not answered the question sufficiently?

I apologize if my question isn't clear.

 

What I am asking is if people who aren't from the US have different "talking to X" manners for all the various cultures they encounter.  The original statement was non Americans using "talking to Americans" manners.  So my question is.....are there "talking to Columbians" manners?  Are there "talking to Canadians" manners?"  "Talking to Russians" manners?   And so on and so forth.

Does every culture get "Talking to X" manners, or is it only Americans who require such things?

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2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Well yes, I would presume they are different.  What I am asking is if Austrailians (or other cultures) specifically use particular manners/mannerisms/vocabulary/etc with cultures not their own.  

Don't you? I definitely have adjusted my manners and such when interacting with those I know that wouldn't appreciate the normal, Southern US ones I grew up with. Heck, I find myself doing so with others from the US at times who don't understand so definitely with those from outside the US. 

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2 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

It's considered OK to 'punch up'. Your nation is dominant, ours is subservient. We're your lapdogs, in political terms.

 

Yours is just one of several comments excusing this behavior by pointing to the US' size or military power or whatever.

I am the same general size / power individual as most anyone here.  So is every other US person on this board.  Some of them are no less fragile than any fragile people in your circle.  Few if any of us have gone over to your country and hurt it in any way.  You certainly are not subservient to us.  And we certainly don't see you that way.

You are talking to and about individual human beings.  The thread is not "what do you dislike about US policies."

Edited by SKL
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1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

I apologize if my question isn't clear.

 

What I am asking is if people who aren't from the US have different "talking to X" manners for all the various cultures they encounter.  The original statement was non Americans using "talking to Americans" manners.  So my question is.....are there "talking to Columbians" manners?  Are there "talking to Canadians" manners?"  "Talking to Russians" manners?   And so on and so forth.

Does every culture get "Talking to X" manners, or is it only Americans who require such things?

 

I said there are different "talking to" manners, but Americans are the only ones who get their own particular set of "talking to" manners. Talking to Americans manners are different to talking to other non-Australians manners.

I assume pretty much everyone has "talking to other" manners. We talk to our mothers differently from the way we talk to our fathers, to begin with.

As someone said, it's largely about power. I wouldn't be surprised if East Timorese speak to Australians similarly to the way Australians speak to Americans.

 

I don't know how to answer any better than this.

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4 minutes ago, Joker said:

Don't you? I definitely have adjusted my manners and such when interacting with those I know that wouldn't appreciate the normal, Southern US ones I grew up with. Heck, I find myself doing so with others from the US at times who don't understand so definitely with those from outside the US. 

On a message board?  Generally, no I don't, but generally, unless a person makes it known particularly where they are from, I would have no way of knowing which "manners" to use.

As a person living in the midwest of the US, who travels very little at this point, I actually don't encounter people from outside the US very often.  The closest interaction I have my the guy my DD23 is dating.  He is from India and honestly...........I wouldn't know what "talking to people from India" manners would be.  I do my best to be polite, nice, welcoming to our family, etc etc.  Am I supposed to have special manners to talk to him?  He doesn't seem to be offended by DH and I just being us?  (but then generally I don't think we are particularly rude or obnoxious....I am loud but not nasty.....)

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6 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

 

Are Colombians part of the dominant political, cultural, financial, military global power ?

Are Canadians ?

Are Russians ?

Do you think they would require us to have a special set of manners for them ?

I am not sure what these questions have to do with what I am asking?   Are you suggesting that the individual citizens of a country are responsible for the political and global actions of such a country and therefore should be treated as such?

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2 hours ago, StellaM said:

OK, let me preface by saying that there is a lot I admire about America/American culture. 

For starters, nearly all my favourite poets are American. Many of my favourite novelists. Essayists. Musicians. Your art culture is vibrant. 

I have American friends (Americans who now live or have lived in AU) who are the loveliest people. I have never cried so hard as I did when one of my American friends left for the States.

My favourite posters here are American (and Canadian, and Australian!)

Phew. (Hope no-one will jump on me now!)

Because, frankly, if that isn't enough, then nothing is enough. I have never, even seen a single US poster bend over backwards like that to an non US poster.

 

Since we've read many posts over the years in which you basically come right out and say you hate the USA, I honestly didn't read this post as sincere.  No offense.

But maybe it's just Austrailan humor that I don't get.  I will consider that anyway, going forward.

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10 hours ago, PrincessMommy said:

My only question is how do get this information to my dh (who is easily offended, loud, and arrogant) before we travel abroad this year  😄

 
He won’t stand out as an American by being easily offended, loud and arrogant. He might be teased with “Ok Boomer” by impolite people as a retort. 

What make the Americans stand out in a bad way is when they are in another country and they complain and state that US does it so much better. Like commenting on how other people behave like doormats, don’t have true democracy, way behind in the space race. Also how everyone wants to come to America. Nobody wants to hear how great US is and how bad their city/county/country is from tourists.

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2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

As a person living in the midwest of the US, who travels very little at this point, I actually don't encounter people from outside the US very often.  The closest interaction I have my the guy my DD23 is dating.  He is from India and honestly...........I wouldn't know what "talking to people from India" manners would be.  I do my best to be polite, nice, welcoming to our family, etc etc.  Am I supposed to have special manners to talk to him?  He doesn't seem to be offended by DH and I just being us?  (but then generally I don't think we are particularly rude or obnoxious....I am loud but not nasty.....)

 

If he's in your house, there's no need for "talking to Indians" manners.  It's your "talking to prospective son in law" manners, you're using, no?

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2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I am not sure what these questions have to do with what I am asking?   Are you suggesting that the individual citizens of a country are responsible for the political and global actions of such a country and therefore should be treated as such?

 

No. We're saying it is part of the cultural baggage.

I didn't personally dispossess any Indigenous Australians from this land. They'd been booted off long before my brother bought this house. It's still cultural baggage though. 

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4 minutes ago, SKL said:

Since we've read many posts over the years in which you basically come right out and say you hate the USA, I honestly didn't read this post as sincere.  No offense.

But maybe it's just Austrailan humor that I don't get.  I will consider that anyway, going forward.

 

You know how lots of people have come into this thread to tell us that there is a difference between individual Americans and the political state/government of the USA?

We knew that already and the post you quoted is a demonstration of that knowledge.

If you want to correctly interpret Stella, take the post you quoted at face value. It was not insincere and has nothing to do with Australian humour. 

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1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

 
He won’t stand out as an American by being easily offended, loud and arrogant. He might be teased with “Ok Boomer” by impolite people as a retort. 

What make the Americans stand out in a bad way is when they are in another country and they complain and state that US does it so much better. Like commenting on how other people behave like doormats, don’t have true democracy, way behind in the space race. Also how everyone wants to come to America. Nobody wants to hear how great US is and how bad their city/county/country is from tourists.

no my dh wouldn't do that.   

The only person I've ever heard do that was an Iranian man living here in the US.. and married to an American.  He would often opine about how much better the food was in Iran.  Especially the fruits and veggies.  So much better than bland American fruits and veggies.  He would say this every time we ate with him.   We thought it was sweet.  He was nostalgic for his own country and we suspected he was probably right.  American store-bought fruits and veggies probably are less flavorful than what you can buy in Iranian markets.  

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6 minutes ago, PrincessMommy said:

The only person I've ever heard do that was an Iranian man living here in the US.. and married to an American.  He would often opine about how much better the food was in Iran.  Especially the fruits and veggies.  So much better than bland American fruits and veggies.  He would say this every time we ate with him.   We thought it was sweet.  He was nostalgic for his own country and we suspected he was probably right.  American store-bought fruits and veggies probably are less flavorful than what you can buy in Iranian markets.  

 

I defy anyone to say that is an inappropriate complaint.

Gotta draw a line somewhere, and I draw the line about food. 😄

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I can’t imagine anyone listening to Stella over the years and thinking she hates America or Americans.  I know that’s not true.  
actually I can’t think of a single poster here who I’d be able to say definitively hates anything, much less an entire country.   We all have our dislikes and there are certain groups i steer clear of but I try (try is the operative word...) not to hate.  I think most people here are the same way.    

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7 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

On a message board?  Generally, no I don't, but generally, unless a person makes it known particularly where they are from, I would have no way of knowing which "manners" to use.

As a person living in the midwest of the US, who travels very little at this point, I actually don't encounter people from outside the US very often.  The closest interaction I have my the guy my DD23 is dating.  He is from India and honestly...........I wouldn't know what "talking to people from India" manners would be.  I do my best to be polite, nice, welcoming to our family, etc etc.  Am I supposed to have special manners to talk to him?  He doesn't seem to be offended by DH and I just being us?  (but then generally I don't think we are particularly rude or obnoxious....I am loud but not nasty.....)

The best way I can explain to you is, you know when you go over to a friend's house and you're able to relax and let the conversation flow?  That's the non American to non American.

Non American to American is more like you're visiting your very particular, judgemental mother in law, and you have to constantly watch what you say cause it may bite you in the rear.

The love is the same but the communication within the relationships is different.

Hope this helps! You seemed genuinely curious. 🙂

Please don't take my choice of words literally. It is only an analogy.

 

 

Edited by Islandgal
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Of course one of the first things I learned here is that many boardies don't get my sense of humor either.  There have been thousands of times that I edited my comments or deleted them all together rather than risk offending people unintentionally.

Not just because of sensitivities, but because it tends to derail conversations, and whatever substantive point gets totally lost.

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22 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Do non Americans have “talking to...” code for everyone not of their own culture? “.  Like “talking to South Africans” manners?   Do Oeople from the UK have “talking to Australians” manners?   Do Australians have “ talking to Britians” manners?   Do New Zealanders have “Talking to Australians” manners?

I can say that when I lived in the UK, I did have different "talking to Brits" manners compared to the way I would talk to another American. For one thing, requests tend to be much less direct and prefaced with something like "If you wouldn't mind..." or "I don't mean to be a bother, but..." or "If it wouldn't be too much trouble, may I please...," etc. Brits also tend to say "sorry" a lot, even when it's not their fault, and to insist that something isn't a bother even when it is. They're also much less likely to complain about things Americans tend to be quite assertive about, like service or food. You can be served food that is overcooked, over salted, and practically cold, and when the waitress asks if everything is OK, most Brits will just nod and say it's fine. So you can imagine the impression it makes when an American snaps his fingers to get a waiter's attention, complains about the food (and even sends it back), complains about slow service, etc. I once had lunch with an American woman and her teenaged son who were visiting the UK, and he ordered sticky toffee pudding for dessert without really knowing what it was. When the waitress asked if he wanted cream with that he said yes. When she set the dessert in front of him he immediately said "That's NOT what I ordered, I ordered pudding with whipped cream!" It was explained that "pudding" meant something different in the UK, and that desserts were often served with heavy cream that was not whipped, but he was totally put out, and his mother insisted they not be charged for it because they couldn't possibly have known that toffee pudding with cream would turn out to be "a wet muffin with milk poured over it." Then they talked about how weird British food was, and how Brits don't know how to make toast or French fries.

I confess that I once went "ugly American" myself at a posh hair salon, after the hairdresser totally ignored all my instructions (and photos) and gave me a cut that was not remotely what I asked for, even though I repeatedly told him while he was cutting it that I was not happy with the direction things were going. When I checked out, one of the receptionists said "wow, that is quite a change — do you like it?" and I was so mad I blurted out "No, I freaking hate it, it's not remotely what I asked for, and I'm going to walk three blocks up the street to John Lewis, soak my head in the ladies room sink, take the train home, and immediately call another salon to fix this mess!" And the entire staff and all the clients just stared at me like... 😱😱😱  So that was my contribution to the loud-mouthed American stereotype in 1990's Britain. 😜

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50 minutes ago, Mbelle said:

I was shocked when I first went to Aus to find out how much these 2 countries get on each others nerves.  It is well beyond US/Canada (although I'm southern and Canada is so far away that kind of thing doesn't really exist here like border states)   Anyway, when I first went to AUS I heard how the Kiwi's were weird, had a chip on their shoulder and defensive and there's something wrong with them.  I couldn't believe it.  I thought they were making it up, but they weren't.

edited:  I mean by making it up that I thought they were Aussie teasing.

 

I don’t think border area USA Americans and Canadians do tend to get on each other’s nerves.    Can’t speak to Australia/New Zealand nerves. 

 

 

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Okay, so people really do that snap the fingers at waiters thing?

I thought that was something only Richard Gere could do when he was playing a zillionaire in the movies.

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3 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Okay, so people really do that snap the fingers at waiters thing?

I thought that was something only Richard Gere could do when he was playing a zillionaire in the movies.

Ive only seen it in movies.  I’d gasp so loud I’d suck the food off my plate if someone did that with me.  

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5 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Okay, so people really do that snap the fingers at waiters thing?

I thought that was something only Richard Gere could do when he was playing a zillionaire in the movies.

I have never seen anyone do this IRL.

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3 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Okay, so people really do that snap the fingers at waiters thing?

I thought that was something only Richard Gere could do when he was playing a zillionaire in the movies.

We rarely eat out, but that has never happened with any group I've been with. Usually where we are from, someone will half raise a hand to catch their eye or say "excuse me" as the server is walking by.

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7 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Okay, so people really do that snap the fingers at waiters thing?

I thought that was something only Richard Gere could do when he was playing a zillionaire in the movies.

Polite people do not. But I've seen it and cringed. Not my table BTW.

Edited by Paige
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6 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I can say that when I lived in the UK, I did have different "talking to Brits" manners compared to the way I would talk to another American. For one thing, requests tend to be much less direct and prefaced with something like "If you wouldn't mind..." or "I don't mean to be a bother, but..." or "If it wouldn't be too much trouble, may I please...," etc. Brits also tend to say "sorry" a lot, even when it's not their fault, and to insist that something isn't a bother even when it is. 

 

This fits my experience also.  

I find my son telling me in USA, that I’m not direct enough.  Or people say, “just spit it out” to try to move me past my prefaces.  

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

But that kind of links back to the idea that we're all just 'cute', out there with our kangaroos and our plate size spiders, cuddling koalas.

It's a positive stereotype on the surface, but actually, what it indicates is that we're seen as unthreatening because our cultural, financial, political power is next to nil. 

It's not as benign as you might think, and I'd call it condescending. I don't mind, because stereotypes do not equal me. 

I don't think of Aussies as cute or cuddly and I actually don't think of kangaroos🙄🙄🙄 

No, I guess I think of both Canadians (western) and Aussies as free spirits so for that I see common ground with Americans. 

 

3 hours ago, StellaM said:

OK, let me preface by saying that there is a lot I admire about America/American culture. 

For starters, nearly all my favourite poets are American. Many of my favourite novelists. Essayists. Musicians. Your art culture is vibrant. 

I have American friends (Americans who now live or have lived in AU) who are the loveliest people. I have never cried so hard as I did when one of my American friends left for the States.

My favourite posters here are American (and Canadian, and Australian!)

Phew. (Hope no-one will jump on me now!)

Because, frankly, if that isn't enough, then nothing is enough. I have never, even seen a single US poster bend over backwards like that to an non US poster.

 

Are you kidding?  You said it is ok to "punch up" but whine if someone complains when you do... or punches back?  I did skip a lot of these posts but really?  People did not seem that offended for you to respond and say you have to be subserviant because we are a superpower... really with a long allied history, not like the USA is overbearing toward AUS?   Wah, wah!  Seems a poor excuse and seems like someone can dish it out but can't take it🙄🙄

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1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Talking to Americans manners differs from talking to other non-Australians manners. 
Can't comment on what New Zealanders think. Mostly we're in a shame spiral about them because they've got a better prime minister than we have.

I see your shame spiral and raise you!

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