S/o International people views on Americans

[Corraleno]

6 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

See my thought it I wouldn’t need to, because I would never knowingly say something offensive and stereotyped about another country or poster.  That just isn’t done in my circles, not even jokingly unless it’s clearly an inside thing.  My view is if I’d have to preface it with that much soft pedaling it’s better unsaid.

I don’t understand the punching up thing either - I don’t view a political figure or star I dislike as fair game for that either, though.  I’m pretty careful with satire and mockery in general because it can be cutting and mean and just isn’t appropriate for a Christian to engage in.  So I do a lot of mental consideration of certain types of humor because for me that can be a big inadvertent pitfall.

This could be a cultural difference between us, for sure.  But plenty of Americans on this thread were okay with it, which is what I was trying to wrap my brain around as maybe being some perception difference in the appropriateness of repeating a stereotype. I’m not particularly patriotic and I’ve lived abroad and traveled some, as well as having lived in very different corners of my own country.  I’m not unaware of how to be a decent world citizen when outside my own comfort zone.  And repeating things that could be construed as insulting or hurtful is beyond what I’ve been conditioned is polite and appropriate.

Obviously we won’t see eye to eye on this, that’s okay.  I’m not particularly interested in ‘getting my way’ so much as just trying to understand where I was disconnecting on this ever being an ‘okay’ topic to indulge in with polite company.  My brain was going “what...?”

 

What have people said that you see as offensive, insulting, or hurtful? I'm genuinely asking, because I don't consider it offensive or even impolite to acknowledge that American tourists tend to come across as loud, over-confident, and often less than respectful of local customs. That is how a lot of Americans act when abroad — why is it insulting to mention that reality? Why does politeness require ignoring reality and refusing to answer someone's genuine question?

[Rosie_0801]

4 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

 

What have people said that you see as offensive, insulting, or hurtful? I'm genuinely asking, because I don't consider it offensive or even impolite to acknowledge that American tourists tend to come across as loud, over-confident, and often less than respectful of local customs. That is how a lot of Americans act when abroad — why is it insulting to mention that reality? Why does politeness require ignoring reality and refusing to answer someone's genuine question?

 

Not to be rude, but Arctic has explained quite thoroughly. What part of her explanation is missing? 
(I'm only asking because another explanation would probably still miss whatever pieces of the puzzle you're missing.)

[PrincessMommy]

1 hour ago, StellaM said:

 

Look at my first post in this thread. 

It's not exactly direct, is it ? It's full of caveats meant to reassure an American audience that I appreciate many things about them/their culture. I don't normally talk like that. That's 'American manners'. And yeah, the caveats ? True, but also expressed to avoid American backlash (which didn't work, but hey)

(I'm not actually the best example, tbh, but it's clear in this thread).

So are you saying that Aussies are generally to the point and blunt when talking with each other?  

[PrincessMommy]

1 hour ago, Mbelle said:

As an american who goes to Aus a lot and is married to one....

Australians tease and make fun of each other A LOT from my perspective.  They also use a lot of sarcasm.  Of course certain parts of the US use sarcasm too, but where I live it's used much less often and milder.  Anyway, all that can come across as a bit of bullying if you aren't used to it.   It's like many things with a cultural difference it's just the way it is, 

This is very helpful.  At first I thought people were whitewashing things for us or something.  I wasn't sure what that meant. 

Yes, I can see that as being misinterpreted by Americans.   My sister and her husband tease and make fun of each other a lot too (both Americans)... and I find it hard to listen too because it's just not the way my dh and I communicate.  I think my dh would be deeply offended if I did that. 

[PrincessMommy]

Just now, StellaM said:

 

Do you want the real answer, the fake answer, or the 'I'll take this as rhetorical and stay silent' answer ?

of course, I want the real answer...but if you'd rather you can PM me..  Since others might be offended.  

 

[Mbelle]

One thing to consider is the overarching culture difference of working class culture vs middle class culture.  I'm not talking about how much money families earn, but the general culture of Aus vs US.  This makes a big difference in our values about different things.  

The other thing is that social cohesion is much more important in Australia than the US. Even more so in Tasmania because that is a known characteristic of island life most anywhere.  

[Mbelle]

16 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Do New Zealanders have “Talking to Australians” manners?

I was shocked when I first went to Aus to find out how much these 2 countries get on each others nerves.  It is well beyond US/Canada (although I'm southern and Canada is so far away that kind of thing doesn't really exist here like border states)   Anyway, when I first went to AUS I heard how the Kiwi's were weird, had a chip on their shoulder and defensive and there's something wrong with them.  I couldn't believe it.  I thought they were making it up, but they weren't.

edited:  I mean by making it up that I thought they were Aussie teasing.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Mbelle

[Rosie_0801]

13 minutes ago, PrincessMommy said:

So are you saying that Aussies are generally to the point and blunt when talking with each other?  

 

Not particularly. I think there is a lot of "don't say things that other people don't want to hear." 

Stella and I doing the Melbourne v Sydney thing is an accepted pattern, so we both know there's nothing to be offended about. Each culture knows it's own accepted smart arsery patterns. 

[Rosie_0801]

11 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Do non Americans have “talking to...” code for everyone not of their own culture? “.  Like “talking to South Africans” manners?   Do Oeople from the UK have “talking to Australians” manners?   Do Australians have “ talking to Britians” manners?   Do New Zealanders have “Talking to Australians” manners?

 

Talking to Americans manners differs from talking to other non-Australians manners. 
Can't comment on what New Zealanders think. Mostly we're in a shame spiral about them because they've got a better prime minister than we have.

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I seriously hurt someone's feelings once by making a joke about how gross pumpkin pie is a couple of years in a row. *This* is the first time I have said anything about pumpkin pie in years. She was devastated. About a joke about me not liking pumpkin pie.

 

But pumpkin pie *is* gross. You aren't wrong, lol

[Rosie_0801]

7 minutes ago, Mbelle said:

I was shocked when I first went to Aus to find out how much these 2 countries get on each others nerves.  It is well beyond US/Canada (although I'm southern and Canada is so far away that kind of thing doesn't really exist here like border states)   Anyway, when I first went to AUS I heard how the Kiwi's were weird, had a chip on their shoulder and defensive and there's something wrong with them.  I couldn't believe it.  I thought they were making it up, but they weren't.

edited:  I mean by making it up that I thought they were Aussie teasing.

 

I assume the New Zealanders hate us because we are mean to them about taxes and their prime minister is better than theirs, which I believe to be objectively true even for those who vote against her.

[Rosie_0801]

Just now, happysmileylady said:

Well yes, I would presume they are different.  What I am asking is if Austrailians (or other cultures) specifically use particular manners/mannerisms/vocabulary/etc with cultures not their own.  

 

I have not answered the question sufficiently?

[Joker]

2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Well yes, I would presume they are different.  What I am asking is if Austrailians (or other cultures) specifically use particular manners/mannerisms/vocabulary/etc with cultures not their own.  

Don't you? I definitely have adjusted my manners and such when interacting with those I know that wouldn't appreciate the normal, Southern US ones I grew up with. Heck, I find myself doing so with others from the US at times who don't understand so definitely with those from outside the US. 

[SKL]

2 hours ago, StellaM said:

 

It's considered OK to 'punch up'. Your nation is dominant, ours is subservient. We're your lapdogs, in political terms.

 

Yours is just one of several comments excusing this behavior by pointing to the US' size or military power or whatever.

I am the same general size / power individual as most anyone here.  So is every other US person on this board.  Some of them are no less fragile than any fragile people in your circle.  Few if any of us have gone over to your country and hurt it in any way.  You certainly are not subservient to us.  And we certainly don't see you that way.

You are talking to and about individual human beings.  The thread is not "what do you dislike about US policies."

Edited January 17, 2020 by SKL

[Rosie_0801]

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

I apologize if my question isn't clear.

 

What I am asking is if people who aren't from the US have different "talking to X" manners for all the various cultures they encounter.  The original statement was non Americans using "talking to Americans" manners.  So my question is.....are there "talking to Columbians" manners?  Are there "talking to Canadians" manners?"  "Talking to Russians" manners?   And so on and so forth.

Does every culture get "Talking to X" manners, or is it only Americans who require such things?

 

I said there are different "talking to" manners, but Americans are the only ones who get their own particular set of "talking to" manners. Talking to Americans manners are different to talking to other non-Australians manners.

I assume pretty much everyone has "talking to other" manners. We talk to our mothers differently from the way we talk to our fathers, to begin with.

As someone said, it's largely about power. I wouldn't be surprised if East Timorese speak to Australians similarly to the way Australians speak to Americans.

 

I don't know how to answer any better than this.

[SKL]

2 hours ago, StellaM said:

OK, let me preface by saying that there is a lot I admire about America/American culture. 

For starters, nearly all my favourite poets are American. Many of my favourite novelists. Essayists. Musicians. Your art culture is vibrant. 

I have American friends (Americans who now live or have lived in AU) who are the loveliest people. I have never cried so hard as I did when one of my American friends left for the States.

My favourite posters here are American (and Canadian, and Australian!)

Phew. (Hope no-one will jump on me now!)

Because, frankly, if that isn't enough, then nothing is enough. I have never, even seen a single US poster bend over backwards like that to an non US poster.

 

Since we've read many posts over the years in which you basically come right out and say you hate the USA, I honestly didn't read this post as sincere.  No offense.

But maybe it's just Austrailan humor that I don't get.  I will consider that anyway, going forward.

[Arcadia]

10 hours ago, PrincessMommy said:

My only question is how do get this information to my dh (who is easily offended, loud, and arrogant) before we travel abroad this year  😄

 
He won’t stand out as an American by being easily offended, loud and arrogant. He might be teased with “Ok Boomer” by impolite people as a retort. 

What make the Americans stand out in a bad way is when they are in another country and they complain and state that US does it so much better. Like commenting on how other people behave like doormats, don’t have true democracy, way behind in the space race. Also how everyone wants to come to America. Nobody wants to hear how great US is and how bad their city/county/country is from tourists.

[Rosie_0801]

2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

As a person living in the midwest of the US, who travels very little at this point, I actually don't encounter people from outside the US very often.  The closest interaction I have my the guy my DD23 is dating.  He is from India and honestly...........I wouldn't know what "talking to people from India" manners would be.  I do my best to be polite, nice, welcoming to our family, etc etc.  Am I supposed to have special manners to talk to him?  He doesn't seem to be offended by DH and I just being us?  (but then generally I don't think we are particularly rude or obnoxious....I am loud but not nasty.....)

 

If he's in your house, there's no need for "talking to Indians" manners.  It's your "talking to prospective son in law" manners, you're using, no?

[Rosie_0801]

2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I am not sure what these questions have to do with what I am asking?   Are you suggesting that the individual citizens of a country are responsible for the political and global actions of such a country and therefore should be treated as such?

 

No. We're saying it is part of the cultural baggage.

I didn't personally dispossess any Indigenous Australians from this land. They'd been booted off long before my brother bought this house. It's still cultural baggage though. 

[Rosie_0801]

4 minutes ago, SKL said:

Since we've read many posts over the years in which you basically come right out and say you hate the USA, I honestly didn't read this post as sincere.  No offense.

But maybe it's just Austrailan humor that I don't get.  I will consider that anyway, going forward.

 

You know how lots of people have come into this thread to tell us that there is a difference between individual Americans and the political state/government of the USA?

We knew that already and the post you quoted is a demonstration of that knowledge.

If you want to correctly interpret Stella, take the post you quoted at face value. It was not insincere and has nothing to do with Australian humour. 

[PrincessMommy]

 

 

1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

 
He won’t stand out as an American by being easily offended, loud and arrogant. He might be teased with “Ok Boomer” by impolite people as a retort. 

What make the Americans stand out in a bad way is when they are in another country and they complain and state that US does it so much better. Like commenting on how other people behave like doormats, don’t have true democracy, way behind in the space race. Also how everyone wants to come to America. Nobody wants to hear how great US is and how bad their city/county/country is from tourists.

no my dh wouldn't do that.   

The only person I've ever heard do that was an Iranian man living here in the US.. and married to an American.  He would often opine about how much better the food was in Iran.  Especially the fruits and veggies.  So much better than bland American fruits and veggies.  He would say this every time we ate with him.   We thought it was sweet.  He was nostalgic for his own country and we suspected he was probably right.  American store-bought fruits and veggies probably are less flavorful than what you can buy in Iranian markets.  

[Rosie_0801]

6 minutes ago, PrincessMommy said:

The only person I've ever heard do that was an Iranian man living here in the US.. and married to an American.  He would often opine about how much better the food was in Iran.  Especially the fruits and veggies.  So much better than bland American fruits and veggies.  He would say this every time we ate with him.   We thought it was sweet.  He was nostalgic for his own country and we suspected he was probably right.  American store-bought fruits and veggies probably are less flavorful than what you can buy in Iranian markets.  

 

I defy anyone to say that is an inappropriate complaint.

Gotta draw a line somewhere, and I draw the line about food. 😄

[Islandgal]

7 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

On a message board?  Generally, no I don't, but generally, unless a person makes it known particularly where they are from, I would have no way of knowing which "manners" to use.

As a person living in the midwest of the US, who travels very little at this point, I actually don't encounter people from outside the US very often.  The closest interaction I have my the guy my DD23 is dating.  He is from India and honestly...........I wouldn't know what "talking to people from India" manners would be.  I do my best to be polite, nice, welcoming to our family, etc etc.  Am I supposed to have special manners to talk to him?  He doesn't seem to be offended by DH and I just being us?  (but then generally I don't think we are particularly rude or obnoxious....I am loud but not nasty.....)

The best way I can explain to you is, you know when you go over to a friend's house and you're able to relax and let the conversation flow?  That's the non American to non American.

Non American to American is more like you're visiting your very particular, judgemental mother in law, and you have to constantly watch what you say cause it may bite you in the rear.

The love is the same but the communication within the relationships is different.

Hope this helps! You seemed genuinely curious. 🙂

Please don't take my choice of words literally. It is only an analogy.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Islandgal

[SKL]

Of course one of the first things I learned here is that many boardies don't get my sense of humor either.  There have been thousands of times that I edited my comments or deleted them all together rather than risk offending people unintentionally.

Not just because of sensitivities, but because it tends to derail conversations, and whatever substantive point gets totally lost.

[Corraleno]

22 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Do non Americans have “talking to...” code for everyone not of their own culture? “.  Like “talking to South Africans” manners?   Do Oeople from the UK have “talking to Australians” manners?   Do Australians have “ talking to Britians” manners?   Do New Zealanders have “Talking to Australians” manners?

I can say that when I lived in the UK, I did have different "talking to Brits" manners compared to the way I would talk to another American. For one thing, requests tend to be much less direct and prefaced with something like "If you wouldn't mind..." or "I don't mean to be a bother, but..." or "If it wouldn't be too much trouble, may I please...," etc. Brits also tend to say "sorry" a lot, even when it's not their fault, and to insist that something isn't a bother even when it is. They're also much less likely to complain about things Americans tend to be quite assertive about, like service or food. You can be served food that is overcooked, over salted, and practically cold, and when the waitress asks if everything is OK, most Brits will just nod and say it's fine. So you can imagine the impression it makes when an American snaps his fingers to get a waiter's attention, complains about the food (and even sends it back), complains about slow service, etc. I once had lunch with an American woman and her teenaged son who were visiting the UK, and he ordered sticky toffee pudding for dessert without really knowing what it was. When the waitress asked if he wanted cream with that he said yes. When she set the dessert in front of him he immediately said "That's NOT what I ordered, I ordered pudding with whipped cream!" It was explained that "pudding" meant something different in the UK, and that desserts were often served with heavy cream that was not whipped, but he was totally put out, and his mother insisted they not be charged for it because they couldn't possibly have known that toffee pudding with cream would turn out to be "a wet muffin with milk poured over it." Then they talked about how weird British food was, and how Brits don't know how to make toast or French fries.

I confess that I once went "ugly American" myself at a posh hair salon, after the hairdresser totally ignored all my instructions (and photos) and gave me a cut that was not remotely what I asked for, even though I repeatedly told him while he was cutting it that I was not happy with the direction things were going. When I checked out, one of the receptionists said "wow, that is quite a change — do you like it?" and I was so mad I blurted out "No, I freaking hate it, it's not remotely what I asked for, and I'm going to walk three blocks up the street to John Lewis, soak my head in the ladies room sink, take the train home, and immediately call another salon to fix this mess!" And the entire staff and all the clients just stared at me like... 😱😱😱  So that was my contribution to the loud-mouthed American stereotype in 1990's Britain. 😜

[Pen]

50 minutes ago, Mbelle said:

I was shocked when I first went to Aus to find out how much these 2 countries get on each others nerves.  It is well beyond US/Canada (although I'm southern and Canada is so far away that kind of thing doesn't really exist here like border states)   Anyway, when I first went to AUS I heard how the Kiwi's were weird, had a chip on their shoulder and defensive and there's something wrong with them.  I couldn't believe it.  I thought they were making it up, but they weren't.

edited:  I mean by making it up that I thought they were Aussie teasing.

 

I don’t think border area USA Americans and Canadians do tend to get on each other’s nerves.    Can’t speak to Australia/New Zealand nerves. 

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

Okay, so people really do that snap the fingers at waiters thing?

I thought that was something only Richard Gere could do when he was playing a zillionaire in the movies.

[EmseB]

5 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Okay, so people really do that snap the fingers at waiters thing?

I thought that was something only Richard Gere could do when he was playing a zillionaire in the movies.

I have never seen anyone do this IRL.

[Meriwether]

3 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Okay, so people really do that snap the fingers at waiters thing?

I thought that was something only Richard Gere could do when he was playing a zillionaire in the movies.

We rarely eat out, but that has never happened with any group I've been with. Usually where we are from, someone will half raise a hand to catch their eye or say "excuse me" as the server is walking by.

[Paige]

7 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Okay, so people really do that snap the fingers at waiters thing?

I thought that was something only Richard Gere could do when he was playing a zillionaire in the movies.

Polite people do not. But I've seen it and cringed. Not my table BTW.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Paige

[Pen]

6 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

I can say that when I lived in the UK, I did have different "talking to Brits" manners compared to the way I would talk to another American. For one thing, requests tend to be much less direct and prefaced with something like "If you wouldn't mind..." or "I don't mean to be a bother, but..." or "If it wouldn't be too much trouble, may I please...," etc. Brits also tend to say "sorry" a lot, even when it's not their fault, and to insist that something isn't a bother even when it is. 

 

This fits my experience also.  

I find my son telling me in USA, that I’m not direct enough.  Or people say, “just spit it out” to try to move me past my prefaces.  

 

 

 

[KungFuPanda]

3 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Alice Springs?

yup

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Talking to Americans manners differs from talking to other non-Australians manners. 
Can't comment on what New Zealanders think. Mostly we're in a shame spiral about them because they've got a better prime minister than we have.

I see your shame spiral and raise you!

[Pen]

16 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Okay, so people really do that snap the fingers at waiters thing?

I thought that was something only Richard Gere could do when he was playing a zillionaire in the movies.

 

Rarely.  It’s considered rude.   I did not see the movie, but would presume it would indicate the rude type of guy a character who did it is.  

Edited January 17, 2020 by Pen

[Condessa]

13 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Okay, so people really do that snap the fingers at waiters thing?

I thought that was something only Richard Gere could do when he was playing a zillionaire in the movies.

 

Sometimes, but not often.  It’s quite common to wave down a passing waiter with your hand, but the snapping thing always seemed really rude to me, like you were getting a dog or small child’s attention.

[Rosie_0801]

8 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

yup

 

Dude. You should've gone!

[Corraleno]

3 minutes ago, Paige said:

Polite people do not. But I've seen it and cringed. Not my table BTW.

Yeah, I lived in Los Angeles for 11 years, and it's not uncommon among people who think their time is so much more valuable than anyone else's. I was once set up on a blind lunch date with a guy who was a screen-writer, and it was the most cringe-worthy 2 hours of my life. 🤮

 

3 minutes ago, Pen said:

This fits my experience also.  

I find my son telling me in USA, that I’m not direct enough.  Or people say, “just spit it out” to try to move me past my prefaces.  

My ex-husband is British, and when we were first living together he would say things like "Since you're in the kitchen and all, if you're not too busy and it wouldn't be too much trouble, would you mind terribly making me a cup of tea?" and I'd say "You can leave out the Jane Austen intro and just ask for a cup of tea, you know!" 😂

[rebcoola]

I'm late to the thread and what a ride.  I feel like I stereotype large swaths of America the same way our common wealth friends are.  Mericans is what we call jokingky call them.  We call ourselves it when we are being a little extra.  I know all Americans aren't they way obviously but they definitely exist in fairly large quantities.

I'm pretty sure all the stereotypes about being loud and taking up too much space etc..apply to me if I'm comfortable with friends and having fun.  If I'm in a small group or at all uncomfortable I tend to clam up completely and would probably be a model visitor. Lol.  

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by rebcoola

[Arcadia]

2 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Okay, so people really do that snap the fingers at waiters thing?

I thought that was something only Richard Gere could do when he was playing a zillionaire in the movies.

It is rude to snap the fingers for a waiter or to ask for the bill. However in a noisy Chinese restaurant, it isn’t unusual for someone to snap their fingers, whistle or holler for the waiter. The whistling is the emergency whistle kind of style, not the wolf whistle kind.

(ETA: 
I meant snapping one’s fingers to ask for the bill. It’s snap the fingers followed by signing (make a motion like that of signing a check) for bill. It’s useful in noisy crowded restaurants but it’s informal impolite. )

2 hours ago, Islandgal said:

Non American to American is more like you're visiting your very particular, judgmental mother in law, and you have to constantly watch what you say cause it may bite you in the rear.

I have people assumed I can’t understand English and say stuff that are derogatory, in US and other English speaking countries.

2 hours ago, PrincessMommy said:

The only person I've ever heard do that was an Iranian man living here in the US.. and married to an American.  He would often opine about how much better the food was in Iran.  Especially the fruits and veggies.  So much better than bland American fruits and veggies.  He would say this every time we ate with him.   We thought it was sweet.  He was nostalgic for his own country and we suspected he was probably right.  American store-bought fruits and veggies probably are less flavorful than what you can buy in Iranian markets.  

I do miss certain Asian foods because Panda Express is Americanized Chinese food, the Asian food at Trader Joe’s are not really authentic though some are pretty close. However, I would not belittle the food when I am in another country or as a guest somewhere. Its the “don’t say anything if you have nothing good to say” house rule I was brought up on, unless I was supposed to write a food critic article. Even then I would say the food is bland, and lack spices, rather than American food is substandard. 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Arcadia

[Amy in NH]

On 1/14/2020 at 5:00 PM, StellaM said:

[SNIP]

American militarism, the presence of American military and the perception of being dragged into American wars (more recent historical context). Increased American content sold to us. 

So there's a background feeling of being used and marketed to, in the guise of an allyship that's pretty much lip service post WW.

When Americans are criticised here, it seems to be when they are unaware of the people around them. I'll give you a petty example. We get a  lot of cruise ships in. Quite often, when Americans are off the ship, they seem to lack spatial awareness of the people in the city going about their business. They block footpaths. They're loud. They don't appear to have much sense of being guests. This doesn't happen in the same way or to the same extent with tourists of other nationalities. I wonder if some US tourists are just used to taking up a lot more space ? 

Although a petty example, I think it can stand in for a lot of the things people object to (when they do object, which is clearly not always, see above :)) Not standing back and respecting the culture you just arrived in, sort of a cultural stomping over it in some ways. Feeling free to comment on what they see, regardless of whether its culturally appropriate. Being loud, being overbearing in manner. 

[SNIP]

 

As an American, these are things I dislike about other Americans: There seems to be no awareness-of and consideration-for others, either culturally or just in a mundane way.  And the crass commercialism and militarism - ugh. 

I figured it was just human nature for those with no self-awareness.  Do you not find these traits in people from other countries?

Sometimes I think I really should move to another country...

[HS Mom in NC]

Yep.  The negative reactions to the international crowd who in good faith answered the OP are examples of the mindset and behaviors that feed negative perceptions of Americans.  And yep, the hypersensitivity is yet another thing about Americans this American finds annoying.  I told you in my earliest post some of us have to deal with this all.the.time.  Being offended is the National Sport here.

Being a moderator can't be easy. 

[fairfarmhand]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

I can say that when I lived in the UK, I did have different "talking to Brits" manners compared to the way I would talk to another American. For one thing, requests tend to be much less direct and prefaced with something like "If you wouldn't mind..." or "I don't mean to be a bother, but..." or "If it wouldn't be too much trouble, may I please...," etc. Brits also tend to say "sorry" a lot, even when it's not their fault, and to insist that something isn't a bother even when it is. They're also much less likely to complain about things Americans tend to be quite assertive about, like service or food. You can be served food that is overcooked, over salted, and practically cold, and when the waitress asks if everything is OK, most Brits will just nod and say it's fine. So you can imagine the impression it makes when an American snaps his fingers to get a waiter's attention, complains about the food (and even sends it back), complains about slow service, etc. I once had lunch with an American woman and her teenaged son who were visiting the UK, and he ordered sticky toffee pudding for dessert without really knowing what it was. When the waitress asked if he wanted cream with that he said yes. When she set the dessert in front of him he immediately said "That's NOT what I ordered, I ordered pudding with whipped cream!" It was explained that "pudding" meant something different in the UK, and that desserts were often served with heavy cream that was not whipped, but he was totally put out, and his mother insisted they not be charged for it because they couldn't possibly have known that toffee pudding with cream would turn out to be "a wet muffin with milk poured over it." Then they talked about how weird British food was, and how Brits don't know how to make toast or French fries.

I confess that I once went "ugly American" myself at a posh hair salon, after the hairdresser totally ignored all my instructions (and photos) and gave me a cut that was not remotely what I asked for, even though I repeatedly told him while he was cutting it that I was not happy with the direction things were going. When I checked out, one of the receptionists said "wow, that is quite a change — do you like it?" and I was so mad I blurted out "No, I freaking hate it, it's not remotely what I asked for, and I'm going to walk three blocks up the street to John Lewis, soak my head in the ladies room sink, take the train home, and immediately call another salon to fix this mess!" And the entire staff and all the clients just stared at me like... 😱😱😱  So that was my contribution to the loud-mouthed American stereotype in 1990's Britain. 😜

Oh goodness. The over politeness, the apologizing constantly...that’s the South. “If you don’t mind, I don’t want to be a bother...”

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Okay, so people really do that snap the fingers at waiters thing?

I thought that was something only Richard Gere could do when he was playing a zillionaire in the movies.

 

54 minutes ago, Thatboyofmine said:

Ive only seen it in movies.  I’d gasp so loud I’d suck the food off my plate if someone did that with me.  

Goodness. My 18yo dd works in a restaurant. She Has occasional diners who do snap at waitresses. It’s awful. And she says it makes her want to bite their fingers off. 

[annegables]

6 hours ago, frogger said:

 

Ha, Sorry Wintermom. 9 pages is just too much. Sorry. I see I was just remembering a giant W and I don't know wathe just you. 🙂  

 

Not that I want to pretend to be Canadian but I have  liked most of the Canadians I've met. 🙂 

 

I generally call myself an Alaskan anyway when traveling. I don't say, "I'm an American. " I tend to say "I'm an Alaskan."  Not many other states do that. Maybe Texas 🤣 and Hawaiians?

Californian. But no one wants to claim being Californian when abroad😂 See all stereotypes about California. And Holllywood.

[Condessa]

44 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

It is rude to snap the fingers for a waiter or to ask for the bill. 

 

The second here is interesting.  I didn’t know it could be rude to ask for a bill.  Just in case I can ever afford to travel someday, where is this considered rude?  In Asia?

[Jaybee]

I've found this thread interesting and bothersome and kind of all over the road for me, ha. American here, who lived many years overseas in several different countries. I've seen the ugly American and cringed, especially when I'd lived overseas awhile and understood how they'd be taken in the particular context I was in. I've watched the news and felt embarrassed. I've resented it when I overheard a person native to the country I was living in discussing with someone else how he'd become an American citizen because of Social Security, and made it clear (through other comments I'll leave out here) that he was just taking advantage of what he could, with no real affection for our country.

I've been both treated better because I'm an American, and been treated hostilely for the same. I've developed my own stereotypes of groups and nationalities based on observations and interactions, right or wrong. I'm sure I've contributed to some stereotypes as well, hopefully good, but no guarantees. I've probably had some habits either due to my being an American or due to my own personal quirks, that felt disrespectful to those in my host countries. I've been asked questions that clearly reflected stereotypes built upon television shows. There were times my frustrations (culture shock, anyone?) outspoke my common sense and patience. I love my country, and am so happy to be living in it again, but I also cringe sometimes at the type of patriotism that has changed tone since I was a kid. Or maybe I just see it through the overseas lens now.

So a few thoughts: There are arrogant and obnoxious people living all over the world. There are selfless and kind people living all over the world. Sometimes those two groups get confused because: There are lots of misunderstandings that happen due to both large and small differences in culture, even within our own country. Having grace toward one another's maladaptations and misspeaks is helpful. I'm thankful people had grace toward me. When you travel or move to another country, you go as a humble learner. There are things that I (internally) scorned in my early travels, that later I understood and even adopted as my own, feeling shame at my earlier attitudes. Don't be surprised that people really do actually live differently than they do in your country, in what they do, how they eat, how they speak, what they think, and so on. I mean, you know it in your head, but when you are actually there and encounter it, you are still surprised sometimes. When you are the host country, respect the visitor. And now maybe I'm coming across as the American know-it-all. But I've definitely made more than my share of cultural mistakes. I'm probably still making plenty as I readjust to the U.S., and to a new-to-me part of the country. I'm so grateful that people have been patient with me and let me learn and be enriched by their cultures and themselves.

As to this board, I do some "talk to the WTM forums" speak, especially when starting a thread, because I have trepidations about where it might end up. Sometimes it takes a completely different path, sometimes a simple question receives answers that are way more than what was asked, etc.

Just some meandering thoughts I've had as I've read this.

[Arcadia]

7 minutes ago, Michelle Conde said:

 

The second here is interesting.  I didn’t know it could be rude to ask for a bill.  Just in case I can ever afford to travel someday, where is this considered rude?  In Asia?

I meant snapping one’s fingers to ask for the bill. It’s snap the fingers followed by signing (make a motion like that of signing a check) for bill. It’s useful in noisy crowded restaurants but it’s informal impolite. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

I see your shame spiral and raise you!

I had a nice chat with a young waiter in Sydney about US politics-apparently he and some of his friends have a betting pool on certain US figures. Kind of embarrassing to realize a) your home country's politics are being treated as a sport and b) said young man was FAR more knowledgeable than some Americans! 

[Condessa]

4 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

I meant snapping one’s fingers to ask for the bill. It’s snap the fingers followed by signing (make a motion like that of signing a check) for bill. It’s useful in noisy crowded restaurants but it’s informal impolite. 

 

Oh, yes, I misunderstood.

[wintermom]

2 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

No. We're saying it is part of the cultural baggage.

I didn't personally dispossess any Indigenous Australians from this land. They'd been booted off long before my brother bought this house. It's still cultural baggage though. 

Yes. Cultural baggage from the UK, firstly, and then the US.  Double wham. At least you live a long way away from big brother and big mama. Lucky you! We Canadians are kind of sandwiched between the two - hence our "natural polite talk." We get loads of practice. 😉  We also have the other big brother of France to deal with, and it's descendants. 

Edited January 17, 2020 by wintermom

[annegables]

2 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

I apologize if my question isn't clear.

 

What I am asking is if people who aren't from the US have different "talking to X" manners for all the various cultures they encounter.  The original statement was non Americans using "talking to Americans" manners.  So my question is.....are there "talking to Columbians" manners?  Are there "talking to Canadians" manners?"  "Talking to Russians" manners?   And so on and so forth.

Does every culture get "Talking to X" manners, or is it only Americans who require such things?

YES!!! The book I referenced above, The Culture Map, goes into how often communication gets messed up quickly between cultures because of different styles of communication. This is not because "Americans are____", but because every culture has different communication styles, and if you are trying to communicate effectively with people from other contexts, it works best to at least understand the basics of how communication styles differ. If one has lived in only one culture, it is hard to realize how cultural communication is. 

Even with my FOO vs my DH's, we need to put on our "talking with X" manners. Not because either family is better or worse, but in order to effectively communicate without giving unintentional offense, it is best to understand the situation going in.