DawnM Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 What the heck? It has been a very long time since I had kids in carseats. But I had no idea they expire and you can get fined for carseats that are too old???? Is this true in every state? How many carseats do you go through before your child doesn't need one anymore? 3? 4? UGH. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 (edited) I hadn't heard of fines, I imagine that is state specific. Plastic gets more brittle with age. I think seats are supposed to be good for five years or so? Edited September 27, 2019 by maize 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAgain Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 They're plastic, just like rubbermaid tubs. I took one that was way past its prime, dropped it from about a foot off the ground, and watched it shatter. My friend had held on to it because it was so expensive to start, but she was horrified when she saw what could happen. A lot of the newer ones will have 7-10 year dates on them because they are reinforced with steel bars. We did 4 seats: an infant seat, convertible that lasted to age 5, and a combination/booster after that. But at least a few companies make seats that do all that in one - I just suggest parents invest in an extra seat cover from the company. DS is 9 now and in a backless booster. He has a small bit more to go before he hits all 5 points in sitting without it. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Yep, it is not a scam, they really do lose their usefulness. As others have said though it is not like you have to replace them every year. Most of mine went through 2 seats but if you have a baby and want to use a bucket seat you'll have to go through more as those don't last very long because of their size. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 With two of my kids I started them in a high rear-facing weight-limit convertible right from day 1, and then moved them to a combination harness/booster seat when they turned forward facing around 3.5 years old. So the job can be done with two, though with my two cold weather babies I did opt for an infant seat initially...plus, by that point our oldest convertible had expired, so I could keep the baby in the infant seat until the toddler outgrew the newer convertible. Wendy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, wendyroo said: With two of my kids I started them in a high rear-facing weight-limit convertible right from day 1, and then moved them to a combination harness/booster seat when they turned forward facing around 3.5 years old. So the job can be done with two, though with my two cold weather babies I did opt for an infant seat initially...plus, by that point our oldest convertible had expired, so I could keep the baby in the infant seat until the toddler outgrew the newer convertible. Wendy Pretty much the same, here. 5 years is a long time. I don’t think I’ve actually hit an expiration date before being done with a seat, or at least “done” in the sene that it was so gross inside I didn’t want to spend more time trying to clean it! My kids tend to be about 7/8 when they move to boosters, so 2-3 car seats have been our average per kid. Sometimes that last one has been car seats that convert to boosters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Infant seat, convertible, booster or convertible and then booster are what I do, depending on the size of the baby. I think my 10 pounder we skipped the infant seat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73349 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 (edited) Yes, they expire; the ones we used were good for 5 or 6 years, depending on the brand. It's plastic that sits out in the heat and cold of a car year-round. NC is a "proper use" state, but I wouldn't use an expired seat anywhere because the force of a crash will break the seat apart and it won't do its job. I found car seats a greater expense than I'd expected, but that was partly because always we kept one for each car and partly because my baby outgrew things by height instead of by weight. We never got close to an expiration date and IIRC wouldn't have even if we'd had a second child ~two years younger. Edited September 27, 2019 by whitehawk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 This is definitely not a new thing. My oldest kid is now in college, but I remember when the rear-facing-only infant seat I used for her expired. It lasted through my first four kids but not #5. I usually got through 2-3 kids before I had to toss them for expiration. I had various styles & weight limits throughout the years. My kid was more likely to be moved to a different seat because of another one growing into it or the current kid outgrowing it (usually height but sometimes weight) than for expiration. I did use them up until the final month listed on them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 I believe they should be replaced, after several years, whether or not state law requires that. Like Motorcycle Helmets, should be replaced every year or two. I think some states have exchange programs, where if you turn in an old car seat they will give you a new one? Looking at the inside of my Bicycle Helmet, it is very easy to see how much it has worn out, with me putting it on and off. I told my wife yesterday, when I replace it, I think I will buy a Motorcycle Helmet, which will provide better protection, IMO. I suspect car seats get that same kind of wear, putting a kid in and out of a car seat and them being in it and moving around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted September 27, 2019 Author Share Posted September 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, Lanny said: I believe they should be replaced, after several years, whether or not state law requires that. Like Motorcycle Helmets, should be replaced every year or two. I think some states have exchange programs, where if you turn in an old car seat they will give you a new one? Looking at the inside of my Bicycle Helmet, it is very easy to see how much it has worn out, with me putting it on and off. I told my wife yesterday, when I replace it, I think I will buy a Motorcycle Helmet, which will provide better protection, IMO. I suspect car seats get that same kind of wear, putting a kid in and out of a car seat and them being in it and moving around. every year or two? That is excessive. Most of what I see is every 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted September 27, 2019 Author Share Posted September 27, 2019 11 minutes ago, RootAnn said: This is definitely not a new thing. My oldest kid is now in college, but I remember when the rear-facing-only infant seat I used for her expired. It lasted through my first four kids but not #5. I usually got through 2-3 kids before I had to toss them for expiration. I had various styles & weight limits throughout the years. My kid was more likely to be moved to a different seat because of another one growing into it or the current kid outgrowing it (usually height but sometimes weight) than for expiration. I did use them up until the final month listed on them. I remember it being suggested, but I don't remember it being an actual expiration date and a legal mandate. Maybe that was just where I lived when my kids were little. Or maybe I truly didn't pay attention. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted September 27, 2019 Author Share Posted September 27, 2019 1 hour ago, wendyroo said: With two of my kids I started them in a high rear-facing weight-limit convertible right from day 1, and then moved them to a combination harness/booster seat when they turned forward facing around 3.5 years old. So the job can be done with two, though with my two cold weather babies I did opt for an infant seat initially...plus, by that point our oldest convertible had expired, so I could keep the baby in the infant seat until the toddler outgrew the newer convertible. Wendy You kept them rear facing until 3.5 years old? Am I reading that wrong? Mine were rear facing until they couldn't fit in the carrier without their legs sticking out, around 1 year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenade Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, DawnM said: I remember it being suggested, but I don't remember it being an actual expiration date and a legal mandate. Maybe that was just where I lived when my kids were little. Or maybe I truly didn't pay attention. This was me, too. I didn't find out about car seat expiration dates until my son was just about to grow out of them. No doctor or anyone ever told me this until I read it on a forum. Maybe here. I'm glad I'm not raising young ones anymore. Too complicated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 6 minutes ago, DawnM said: You kept them rear facing until 3.5 years old? Am I reading that wrong? Mine were rear facing until they couldn't fit in the carrier without their legs sticking out, around 1 year. They make the car seats bigger now, but it isn't unusual for their legs to be scrunched up some. I tried to keep my later ones rear facing as long as possible. It was possible longer in the Britax because of higher weight & height limits. Definitely listed as an expiration date by 2001. Don't know before then. A legal fine? That must be state specific & new. My state now has laws keeping kids in seats for longer than they used to. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Yes. I think most kids go through 2 car seats unless their parents are fancy. You can get infant seats that go all the way from newborn to booster age (and if you buy new, they will not expire that fast). Then you can get a booster that lasts until the kid is too old for boosters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 41 minutes ago, DawnM said: You kept them rear facing until 3.5 years old? Am I reading that wrong? Mine were rear facing until they couldn't fit in the carrier without their legs sticking out, around 1 year. She's talking about a convertible seat, not an infant seat. Convertible ones can stay rear facing for years and years - it's advised that 2 yrs is the minimum age for forward facing now. My youngest turned two back in march and is still quite fine rear facing. I can't imagine we will turn her before 3 yrs old. I did turn some of the others sooner but that was because two of them were escape artists and my mirrors weren't as good - I needed them facing so that I could SEE if they escaped so I could freak out and pull over, lol. More than once I ended up on a highway and looking in the rear view to find a toddler kneeling in the rear facing seat, peaking over it at me. This one has her siblings to look at behind her in the van, and isn't an escape artist. She's just as devious, just in different ways, lol. More social engineering than physically hacking things - my husband should be proud. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Oh, and as for why rear facing - there are no particular stats that show any issue with legs being injured while rear facing, but even if there were, better a broken leg than a broken neck. Also, from a comfort standpoint, I figure sitting with legs crossed or propped on the seat is probably way more comfortable than legs dangling. As a short person, I know how uncomfortable dangling legs are. But, it's a "when you know better you do better" thing. No one knew all this way back when, so no judgement. Now...regarding my sister who has her kids without any car seat OR booster with the youngest only just turned 7 a few weeks ago, I have judgement. She has the seats, it isn't a money issue, there is no reason to forgo them other than maybe peer pressure that other kids at school don't have them or something. Happily, in the homeschool world extended seat use is common. My 7 year old got to switch from 5 point to high back booster for his birthday 🙂 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 the plastics/etc. in them age and become more brittle. I'm sure there's an abundance of caution in the dates, but older plastics are generally more brittle than new. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAgain Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Y’all are making me nervous. Here are basic checklists I made when I was a CPST for parents. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 So glad my kids are past this stage. Yes I think some of it is overkill, but thankfully it is relatively affordable and convenient for most folks to just keep on doing what they're doing. I would have let my kids out of their boosters before 8yo if they wanted that. But they liked their boosters, so I didn't have to worry about it. Seriously, the most important thing you can do for your kids' safety is to drive sober and alert. And the second thing is any kind of restraint that works. The risk difference between a seat belt and a booster is extremely small, if even measurable, after the preschool years. But if you have a booster seat anyway, might as well use it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 My older son is 16 and this is not new. RF until close to 3 (he’s very tall so there was no seat back then that would let him RF longer) and car seats tended to have a 5-6 year from the DOM expiration date. Now some seats are rated for 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alisoncooks Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 I didn't know about fines (how would they know?) but I knew that car seats expire. Mainly because 13ish years ago, I was selling an extra car seat on Craigslist, and people waned to know the expiration date. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAgain Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 52 minutes ago, SKL said: Seriously, the most important thing you can do for your kids' safety is to drive sober and alert. And the second thing is any kind of restraint that works. The risk difference between a seat belt and a booster is extremely small, if even measurable, after the preschool years. But if you have a booster seat anyway, might as well use it. This is not true. It is extremely not true. A booster positions the lap belt over the top of the thighs and lower hip. In a crash, the belt is not going to ride up on their abdomen and pull the force of the crash over their intestines, where they will be more likely to have internal bleeding. A booster positions the shoulder belt between the shoulder and neck, so that in a crash it either A. does not ride up on the neck and pull the force of the impact over their windpipe or B. pull it off the shoulder entirely and expect the lap belt to be the only part holding the child in. There are seriously 5 points a child must pass before they can be without a booster. These are the first two. The others are: -can have knees bent over the edge of the seat so they maintain position. -are mature enough -have passed the state law or are 4'9", which is about standard size in most cars for good position. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, HomeAgain said: This is not true. It is extremely not true. A booster positions the lap belt over the top of the thighs and lower hip. In a crash, the belt is not going to ride up on their abdomen and pull the force of the crash over their intestines, where they will be more likely to have internal bleeding. A booster positions the shoulder belt between the shoulder and neck, so that in a crash it either A. does not ride up on the neck and pull the force of the impact over their windpipe or B. pull it off the shoulder entirely and expect the lap belt to be the only part holding the child in. There are seriously 5 points a child must pass before they can be without a booster. These are the first two. The others are: -can have knees bent over the edge of the seat so they maintain position. -are mature enough -have passed the state law or are 4'9", which is about standard size in most cars for good position. I think where we talk past each other is that you are talking about risk assuming we WILL be in a devastating crash. I'm talking about actual real-life risk. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAgain Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Just now, SKL said: I think where we talk past each other is that you are talking about risk assuming we WILL be in a devastating crash. I'm talking about actual real-life risk. I think you misunderstand the point of carseats and seat belts. We simply cannot have a conversation until you understand their purpose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, HomeAgain said: I think you misunderstand the point of carseats and seat belts. We simply cannot have a conversation until you understand their purpose. Do you have recent statistics comparing overall results of seat belt vs. booster for school-aged children where the parent was not DUI? Because the last time I checked, the difference was almost non-existent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAgain Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, SKL said: Do you have recent statistics comparing overall results of seat belt vs. booster for school-aged children where the parent was not DUI? Because the last time I checked, the difference was almost non-existent. No, I don't, and neither do you. Not real ones. There are many factors that are to be considered and they're not used in any statistic chart I've seen to properly give an analysis outside of crash tests: -age/weight of child -proper use of restraint -type of booster (raised, belt positioner only like Mifold, backless, full back, side wings, w/o) -LATCHed or not Even NHTSA's don't take all of that into consideration. They only look at: -position of seat in the car -type of crash to determine injury comparisons. So, good luck to you. You have been given more information. It's up to you to determine what to do with it. However, whenever you give out false information I will be right behind you to say exactly what is wrong with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAgain Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Further, @SKL, encouraging or telling people it's okay to break the law should not be statement that is made lightly on here. And since boosters are required by law until age 8 or 4'9" in most states, I will report any statement you make saying it's okay to do without. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 I just did an updated search and checked the document linked in note 4 of the below link. Interestingly, the number of deaths of kids age 4-7 was exactly the same for kids in booster seats and seat belts. Unfortunately it does not say what % of kids in this age group were using seat belts vs. booster seats in 2017. https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/child_passenger_safety/cps-factsheet.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, HomeAgain said: Further, @SKL, encouraging or telling people it's okay to break the law should not be statement that is made lightly on here. And since boosters are required by law until age 8 or 4'9" in most states, I will report any statement you make saying it's okay to do without. Well first off I did not tell anyone to break the law, and secondly, report me to whom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, DawnM said: I remember it being suggested, but I don't remember it being an actual expiration date and a legal mandate. Maybe that was just where I lived when my kids were little. Or maybe I truly didn't pay attention. My oldest is 17 and his carseat did have an actual expiration date. However! It was on the back of the seat stamped into the plastic in raised numbers. So....once you put the seat in and if you were looking for a sticker with an expiration date somewhere actually visible, you wouldn’t find it. You’d have to know to unhitch and rehitch the seat (and in our older cars back then, that was hard work—I would be drenched in sweat getting the seat back in since there was no latch system in the older cars), and then you’d have to know to look for the raised plastic and not look for a sticker, which is what seemed reasonable. I remember searching longer than I expected trying to find the expiration date the first time I looked for it. I never knew why it wasn’t somewhere where people could actually find it without a major hassle. 😞 Today with cars with the latch system, it’s easier to pop carseats in and out, but back then, once the seat was in, it was a half a year or more before we touched it again if at all possible. Edited September 27, 2019 by Garga 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 3 hours ago, DawnM said: I remember it being suggested, but I don't remember it being an actual expiration date and a legal mandate. Maybe that was just where I lived when my kids were little. Or maybe I truly didn't pay attention. The car seats we bought in 2003 had dates printed on them and the manuals had the expiration dates in them. The state laws don’t usually spell out the expiration date thing. They usually say that the seat has to be used consistent with manufacturer instructions and those instructions cover the expiration dates. Most of the people in my car seat tech training in 2005 or so were law enforcement officers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 3 hours ago, DawnM said: You kept them rear facing until 3.5 years old? Am I reading that wrong? Mine were rear facing until they couldn't fit in the carrier without their legs sticking out, around 1 year. Yes, my kids rear-faced until 3.5ish. Extended rear-facing is a huge, highly encouraged trend now - it is much, much, much safer. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebcoola Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 Seats definitely expire but I have never heard being fined for that. Our new seats all have 7-10 year expirations. In theory we have one our Baby girl could use from birth to when she hits 4’9” . We like to have the bucket for infants though. I don’t believe I know anyone who has actually used any of the all in one seats for all ages and stages. Seems everyone I know does at least 2 Infant bucket to convertible or they do convertible and switch to a smaller booster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted September 27, 2019 Author Share Posted September 27, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said: Well this escalated fast 🤔 Cupcakes simply MUST be baked at 350 for 21.7 minutes. Anything else is just asking for them to be improperly baked. And they must be eaten within 3.68 days or they will expire! 😂 Edited September 27, 2019 by DawnM 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 2 hours ago, SKL said: I think where we talk past each other is that you are talking about risk assuming we WILL be in a devastating crash. I'm talking about actual real-life risk. Well, given that I have no idea if I will or will not be in a devastating crash, I'm going to try to protect against injury in such a situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 My oldest is almost 16. I had passed down oldest's convertible car seat to younger child, and I remember having a realization that it was about to expire when she was about five and having the dilemma of, "Do I buy another convertible seat or switch her to a high backed booster?" I think I started a thread on the forum about it. Britax seats were good for seven years, if I recall correctly, but most seats are only "good" for five. Stats on high backed boosters versus forward facing in a five point restraint were about the same, given the fact that the child never fell asleep and was extremely compliant about sitting properly, so I skipped buying another five point restraint seat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 7 hours ago, DawnM said: Cupcakes I hadn't thought about making them as cupcakes. I'm clearly a failure. I was going to bake them in 9X13s. But what I really wanna know is WHY are you asking this? Got something to share? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 10 hours ago, Ktgrok said: She's talking about a convertible seat, not an infant seat. Convertible ones can stay rear facing for years and years - it's advised that 2 yrs is the minimum age for forward facing now. My youngest turned two back in march and is still quite fine rear facing. I can't imagine we will turn her before 3 yrs old. I did turn some of the others sooner but that was because two of them were escape artists and my mirrors weren't as good - I needed them facing so that I could SEE if they escaped so I could freak out and pull over, lol. More than once I ended up on a highway and looking in the rear view to find a toddler kneeling in the rear facing seat, peaking over it at me. This one has her siblings to look at behind her in the van, and isn't an escape artist. She's just as devious, just in different ways, lol. More social engineering than physically hacking things - my husband should be proud. How is that possible? My kids all had to be turned to the front because they were too tall to be rear facing anymore. That was always around 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 24 minutes ago, TravelingChris said: How is that possible? My kids all had to be turned to the front because they were too tall to be rear facing anymore. That was always around 1. Kids just cross or bend their legs. My kids outgrew their infant seats by height around nine months or so, but convertible seats were rear facing a lot longer. It's WAY safer. That said, I'm glad I'm not parenting little kids now, because I had a kid with car sickness issues and also trying to reach in the back seat to find the missing item that child was screaming for distraction factor when they were rear facing was kind of a huge safety factor in its own right. But....there's no arguing with the stats. Rear facing till about four is definitely the way to go from a safety point of view. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Terabith said: Kids just cross or bend their legs. If you rear face while eating a cupcake, you realize what could happen? One good slam and WHOOSH, frosting face. Now not to say that I didn't ignore this potential danger and keep my ds rear facing an extended amount of time, I really did. I think he may have been 4 before I finally turned him around. That was a LOT of frosting danger there folks. Could have been a messy situation. 3 hours ago, TravelingChris said: How is that possible? My kids all had to be turned to the front because they were too tall to be rear facing anymore. That was always around 1. Nope, you just buy a carseat that is marked for a higher weight and made to rear face. If you want frosting face, you can make it happen. We used the Radian rear facing for years. That seat was built like a TANK. I about cried when we took it to Walmart for the $30 trade-in. But I guess I'll get over it. More money for frosting. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73349 Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 22 hours ago, alisoncooks said: I didn't know about fines (how would they know?) but I knew that car seats expire. Mainly because 13ish years ago, I was selling an extra car seat on Craigslist, and people waned to know the expiration date. The only way law enforcement would know is if you were in a wreck and a seat came apart with the kid in it; once kiddo is in the ambulance, the officer would likely look at whether the seat was past its expiration date and/or too small for the child. I wish manufacturers had been as clear about height as weight, or designed convertible seats for taller kids. I kepts DS RFing in one car until 4.5 and the other until 5.5 and then switched to booster seats, but I'd had to by an extra seat for each because he was too tall even though nowhere near the weight limits. At least boosters are cheaper. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 23 hours ago, LucyStoner said: My older son is 16 and this is not new. Mine is 23, and it was a thing back then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 6 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said: But that would only mean that your kid was equally safe in a seatbelt if only 50% of families were following the law. In my area the vast majority of of 4-7 year olds are in either 5 point or booster, so if half the deaths are coming from the small unrestrained group then that is alarming. Do you live somewhere where 4-7 year olds in seatbelts is common? My tall 9 year old rides in a backless booster, and the majority of his classmates ride in some kind of booster too. My short 9 year old who uses a harness is an outlier. I'm not saying there isn't any incremental difference at all, but it has not been proven that this makes a meaningful difference in real life situations when you start with a sober driver who makes the kids buckle up. Especially for kids as old as 6-8yo. I'm not saying you shouldn't use a booster. I'm saying that nearly all manageable risk at that age is removed by driving unimpaired, not speeding, and making the kids buckle up. I don't think there should be laws that punish parents for not addressing that tiny marginal difference, especially since it can be a hardship for some. I recall a post where an OP was asking if she should call CPS on a mom who was using a borrowed car while hers was in the shop, and didn't have enough car seats for all the kids in the borrowed car. The marginal risk does not justify the same kind of response that applies where, say, a mom leaves small kids home alone for an unreasonable time period. And yes, in my area in 2017 or earlier, I knew kids under 8 who were not using booster seats. I remember one 7yo asking mine why they were still using theirs. And when I traveled with my kids by plane, I didn't bring or rent seats. I'm sure there are still people with school-aged kids who use seat belts rather than boosters, at least part of the time. While most states require a booster for kids under 8 or 4'9", some only require it through age 5 or 6. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, SKL said: I'm saying that nearly all manageable risk at that age is removed by driving unimpaired, not speeding, and making the kids buckle up. How do you know what other vehicles are going to do out on the road, though? You have no control over whether they speed, drive distracted, are impaired or notice red lights and stop signs. The more I drive, the more I assume that everyone else WILL drive like an idiot and I need to do everything I have access to in order to keep myself and my family alive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Just now, wintermom said: How do you know what other vehicles are going to do out on the road, though? You have no control over whether they speed, drive distracted, are impaired or notice red lights and stop signs. The more I drive, the more I assume that everyone else WILL drive like an idiot and I need to do everything I have access to in order to keep myself and my family alive. The additional risk of other idiots is statistically very small if you do the above 3 things. But nobody's telling you not to use a car seat / booster. It's like a lot of things parents choose or don't choose to get comfortable about statistically small risks. I wouldn't want them to start legislating a lot of other things that can reduce small risks, like not having a bathtub, stairs, a pool, a stove, a tree, a dog . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 (edited) It seems to me that if you have kids in the car you are, perforce, going to be distracted. Therefore your advice of "you don't need to properly restrain your child so long as you're not distracted" is inherently flawed. On topic in case anybody missed it: Yeah, plastic lasts forever but it doesn't maintain its structural integrity forever. Bummer, right? And with all the temperature changes your average car goes through that plastic degrades. It does expire. Car seats do have to be replaced - and when you toss out the old ones, cut off the straps so nobody scavenges the seat. You ALSO have to replace the car seat if you're in a collision, even if everybody walked away fine and it doesn't appear damaged. It could be damaged in a way that you can't see. And yes, rear-facing is safer so long as your child fits the recommendation for that particular seat. Their little legs have this nifty feature called "knees" that allows them to bend. SUPER COOL. Edited September 28, 2019 by Tanaqui 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 I totally get why the seats expire. But it also feels like yet another part of our disposable culture. I'm not sure if there's another way - there are definitely always going to be aspects of our lives that will always be better if we can keep doing disposable plastics (like medical stuff, for example) and this may just be one of them. But yeah. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brehon Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 37 minutes ago, SKL said: The additional risk of other idiots is statistically very small if you do the above 3 things. But nobody's telling you not to use a car seat / booster. It's like a lot of things parents choose or don't choose to get comfortable about statistically small risks. I wouldn't want them to start legislating a lot of other things that can reduce small risks, like not having a bathtub, stairs, a pool, a stove, a tree, a dog . . . . I don’t know about that (the bolded). The worst wrecks I’ve responded to have involved idiots driving distracted - alcohol/drugs, yes, but more frequently texting/other phone or device use. And those wrecks have not been on highways, but rather urban streets or rural roads. Sometimes it was the driver with the kids in the car; sometimes it was another driver. In 22 years I’ve pulled two dead kids from wrecks where they have been properly restrained for their size/age. Those wrecks were simply not survivable. In that same time frame, I’ve had to tell way too many parents that their kid(s) was/were dead. Parents who either walked away unharmed or with only minor injuries from those same wrecks. Those kids were always either improperly restrained - either wearing seat belts when they were too young to safely do so (and by young I mean in the 5-8 yo range) or in car seats that weren’t properly secured in the vehicle - or they were unrestrained. I’ve seen too many dead kids who should still be alive. This isn’t a hypothetical or statistical situation for me. 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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