Curfews for young adults

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, hshibley said:

I think as a parent you have to remember that regardless of what we think they are an adult period. They can make good or bad choices and it’s all on them. They could up and decide to pack up their belongings and move halfway across the country with no plan and it’s all on them. Etc 

I feel as a parent of young adults that it’s my responsibility to give them the best start possible. For us that’s paying for 4 years of college. If sometime during those 4 years they decide to do something else that’s up to them. We don’t control their choices once they are legally an adult just because we offer to pay tuition room and board.  

I agree.  I am not trying to control his choices except to the extent it directly and adversely affects me.

[Bambam]

I haven't read the entire thread yet, but if I were either of these young adults, I'd say that I'd be home before 6 am. If I got home any earlier, no problem. 

However, from the young men I know that have what most would consider unreasonable curfews, rules, etc - there does seem to be some build-up of resentment. They don't mention it, they just go on. But it is still there. And outsiders, like me, can see it when they talk about those situations - not in a complaining way, but in a matter-of-fact way that is tinged with suppressed resentment.  I'm not saying that your boys have resentment, but I do think that it is something you need to be aware that the possibility exists. 

So, I'd strongly encourage you to get whatever noise masking/deadening devices so you won't hear, assume the boys won't be home that night, and go to sleep. If you just can't and having them home by 11 pm *at* the latest is the only option for *you*, I'd suggest you tell them that and let them know if they can't accommodate that, they need to find another place to live by xx date.  And then you get prepared to never know where they are/what they are doing. And you don't get, IMHO, to complain or rebuke them for not letting you know where they are every minute of the day/night/week. You do get to ask them to let you know if they are going out of town, on vacation, etc, but I'd suggest you prepare for the fact they *will* forget some times. 

[Scarlett]

Just now, Where's Toto? said:

 

So, it's only MEN that need to support themselves?  If your standard is adults support themselves, why is it only for men?  No SAH dads in your world?  That is different than how I choose to live my life so maybe we just have no common ground to start with. 

We are far from wealthy but I guess we lean more toward offering our kids support and grace.  Yes, they use money they earn or receive as gifts for purchases.  Yes if they deliberately waste something they have to replace it, although if it's a true accident we offer grace.  If it's there own item, they won't have it until they can afford to replace it, so natural consequences.

BUT, I disagree with just putting your kids possessions in a trash bag and kicking them out.  Nothing short of illegal activity would make me think that's okay, and depending on the activity, I'd want to offer support and help rather than dismissal.  

I also disagree that a sweeping generalization - if you don't do x, y and z by this age you are a failure and not a REAL adult.  Nope, people have different needs and I don't think those kinds of generalizations help anyone.

Our house is small enough that I can hear my kids talking in their bedrooms from everywhere.  The only entrance we use is right next to my bedroom and walking in the house means walking on a gravel path right outside the (uninsulated so not noise blocking) windows.    It is not possible to show up at my house without everyone knowing you are coming.   Still didn't think it was fair to expect my daughter to have to social life just because she lived at home or we helped support her.  

Not sure where you got that I only think men should support themselves. I said men because we are talking about my son.

And what does SAH dad’s have to do with anything?  A marriage and how two people work out their lives is nothing like launching a young adult.

And my friend who packed up her kids belongings and took them to his car where he was at school.....I won’t be detailing all of what went on, but it was not a one time or minor thing. It was a long difficult path and she finally just told him he needed to find another place to live. He suddenly became a difffert person and begged her and his dad to give him another chance.  Which they did.  

I also did not say if a person doesn’t do x, y z by a certain age they are a failure. But when you are trying to get yourself in a position to be on your own, and you are accepting support from your parents....then you need to be willing to compromise on your rights.

As far as how you run your house....that is up to you.  

[Valley Girl]

11 hours ago, Scarlett said:

No,  his father lives out of state.  I don’t think there is any way ds would want that.  Nor do I.  I just want him to be home by 11 or have a prearranged plan otherwise.  Really not too much to ask.  Well I do ask he take out the trash and make his bed every day and that is a struggle too,  because apparently no one in America makes their bed daily except me.  

I mentioned it before, but the bolded sounds like the heart of the issue. If that's true, and if you could get him on board with giving you information on his ETA in a timely way (whether he planned to be home by 11 or by some later hour), wouldn't this whole issue would pretty much disappear? You just need to know in advance when he'll be home. Honestly, adult or not, that doesn't seem to be an unreasonable request of the people with whom you share a home and who are giving you so much support both financially and emotionally.

ETA: The curfew sounds like an attempt to resolve the problem of lack of information about his ETA. Would presenting it to him in that light be helpful? Good luck sorting it out, Scarlett. I know you want to help and support DS and DSS as much as you can.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Valley Girl

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, Bambam said:

I haven't read the entire thread yet, but if I were either of these young adults, I'd say that I'd be home before 6 am. If I got home any earlier, no problem. 

However, from the young men I know that have what most would consider unreasonable curfews, rules, etc - there does seem to be some build-up of resentment. They don't mention it, they just go on. But it is still there. And outsiders, like me, can see it when they talk about those situations - not in a complaining way, but in a matter-of-fact way that is tinged with suppressed resentment.  I'm not saying that your boys have resentment, but I do think that it is something you need to be aware that the possibility exists. 

So, I'd strongly encourage you to get whatever noise masking/deadening devices so you won't hear, assume the boys won't be home that night, and go to sleep. If you just can't and having them home by 11 pm *at* the latest is the only option for *you*, I'd suggest you tell them that and let them know if they can't accommodate that, they need to find another place to live by xx date.  And then you get prepared to never know where they are/what they are doing. And you don't get, IMHO, to complain or rebuke them for not letting you know where they are every minute of the day/night/week. You do get to ask them to let you know if they are going out of town, on vacation, etc, but I'd suggest you prepare for the fact they *will* forget some times. 

Yes I am aware a lot of kids resent their parents.  Do you think parenting and household decisions should be based upon avoiding all resentment?  Because some people resent EVERYTHING and some people resent nothing.

My son is already out and dong his own thing and I don’t know and don’t ask.  

 And no saying he will be home at 6 a.m. would not work for me if he then just randomly showed up earlier because I would still have the expectation of wondering if and when he would show up.   

I don’t think people are understanding that the noise, although irritating at times is not the issue.  It is the waiting and wondering. 

[elegantlion]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

 

I don’t think people are understanding that the noise, although irritating at times is not the issue.  It is the waiting and wondering. 

Here's the thing, some of that never goes away, even when they're moved out and paying all their own bills and not telling you all their plans. My mom and I had to talk about my expectations for ds and even today if I go out she'll remind me to not be out too late. She likes it when I call when I go back to school and it's an hour away from home. She called me a lot during the winter snow storms (when I was at school) to make sure I was okay. I know she does it from good intentions, not controlling, but it's a far cry from the mother who once scared the crap out of me as a teenager. I came home late and she stepped out of the dark bathroom and asked gruffly where I had been (pre-cell anything). I still remember that moment, but we've moved well beyond that sort of controlling angry mother - but she changed her tone in order for us to get to the point where I will call when I get back to school. 

Worrying about another person can be a sign of love and concern for their own well-being, but it's a fine line between that and coming off controlling. 

[HomeAgain]

Our oldest is 20.  We do have house rules focused on respect, and that includes quiet hours between 10pm and 6am.  More than that, we have expectations for our kid.  When he was diving into staying up all night/sleeping all day, we gently but firmly told him that wasn't going to fly.  We get that he's in a transition right now, but there is still adulting to do and habits like that are going to make depression and non-action more likely for him.  So, no, that won't work.  We started giving him more responsibility around the house in return for free rent: yard work I can't do, for example, and had him create a list of goals to work on each week.
I figure he's an adult, but he still could use some mentoring right now.

[Scarlett]

9 minutes ago, Valley Girl said:

I mentioned it before, but the bolded sounds like the heart of the issue. If that's true, and if you could get him on board with giving you information on his ETA in a timely way (whether he planned to be home by 11 or by some later hour), wouldn't this whole issue would pretty much disappear? You just need to know in advance when he'll be home. Honestly, adult or not, that doesn't seem to be an unreasonable request of the people with whom you share a home and who are giving you so much support both financially and emotionally.

ETA: The curfew sounds like an attempt to resolve the problem of lack of information about his ETA. Would presenting it to him in that light be helpful? Good luck sorting it out, Scarlett. I know you want to help and support DS and DSS as much as you can.

Yes, I agree.  And we had a good talk yesterday via txt and then when he got home.  

Unrelated to him we were talking about a recently married couple and discussing how they are surviving financially.....he said, ‘I don’t get it, I have run the numbers and a person can barely afford a small apartment working full time at $10 per hour’.   I just nodded my head and smiled inwardly.  

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, elegantlion said:

Here's the thing, some of that never goes away, even when they're moved out and paying all their own bills and not telling you all their plans. My mom and I had to talk about my expectations for ds and even today if I go out she'll remind me to not be out too late. She likes it when I call when I go back to school and it's an hour away from home. She called me a lot during the winter snow storms (when I was at school) to make sure I was okay. I know she does it from good intentions, not controlling, but it's a far cry from the mother who once scared the crap out of me as a teenager. I came home late and she stepped out of the dark bathroom and asked gruffly where I had been (pre-cell anything). I still remember that moment, but we've moved well beyond that sort of controlling angry mother - but she changed her tone in order for us to get to the point where I will call when I get back to school. 

Worrying about another person can be a sign of love and concern for their own well-being, but it's a fine line between that and coming off controlling. 

Yes I agree.  It has been something I have been working on over the last year especially and especially since he has a girlfriend and I feel the natural pull away from me.  My friend keeps reminding me it is a natural and necessary part of launching.  

[elegantlion]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Yes I agree.  It has been something I have been working on over the last year especially and especially since he has a girlfriend and I feel the natural pull away from me.  My friend keeps reminding me it is a natural and necessary part of launching.  

It's kind of like processing joy and grief at the same time. They're not little boys anymore, they're becoming men of good character and it is hard to have the relationship be different. I think it our cases, especially, this is cautious joy that our sons are not their fathers - and in a way there is a grieving that goes with that too. I see the essence of exdh in ds, but it's the good things right now. I hope that is always the case and our conversations with our sons may be different than mothers who HOPE that their sons become like their fathers. 

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, elegantlion said:

It's kind of like processing joy and grief at the same time. They're not little boys anymore, they're becoming men of good character and it is hard to have the relationship be different. I think it our cases, especially, this is cautious joy that our sons are not their fathers - and in a way there is a grieving that goes with that too. I see the essence of exdh in ds, but it's the good things right now. I hope that is always the case and our conversations with our sons may be different than mothers who HOPE that their sons become like their fathers. 

So so true. Wow, you summed up a lot my feelings in one little paragraph.  

[bolt.]

I’ve lived with unrelated young adults (rent free, no contributions expected) multiple times for periods greater than a year.

In all that time, it never occurred to me to consider a curfew or the idea that communication about arrival time was ‘courteous’. It’s not really a ‘courtesy’ that unrelated house-sharing people adopt — even if one is a homeowner and the other is a non-launched uncontributor,

The reason I didn’t need or want these things is because — as a non parent — I was very much less invested in whether or not my young friends were ‘safe’ or whether they were making good life choices. I cared, generally, and hoped for good things for them: but on a friendly level, not a parenty level.

I think you need to acknowledge a difference between the things you want for ‘sensible house sharing’ reasons, and the things you want for parenty reasons. You can still want both things... but it would be good to know the diffference.

[QueenCat]

11 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

 I have no idea why you think a person’s financial status has anything to do with how they interact with or feel about their families.

 

 

 

People do, though... It's weird. 

[gardenmom5]

17 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

 

One day, my brother, who was probably like 5ish at the time, fell in our back yard and smashed his head on the cement back step.  Mom tried to call the friend's house where we were at, but not only before cell phones, before call waiting even lol.  Line was busy, so she just drove there and picked us up.  And spent the whole car ride to the ER reiterating that this was exactly the reason she made us tell her where we were going to be, in case of an emergency.   Whether that emergency happens at home, or to the person who is out, even with cell phones today, I think it's important to let people know what you are doing/where you will be/an approx. time frame.  

I'm confused - why did your mom have to take you with her to the ER for your brother to get checked out?

I've done  ER runs with kids - if I didn't have to take a sibling - you can bet they got left at home/friend's house!   and that was in the day's before cell phones.

 

- there is a transition phase when you learn to change your thinking from, "I need to be aware when minor kid comes in" - to, "kid is an adult, if they didn't live here I wouldn't know where they were or what time they're coming in."   this is all mindset, and mindset needs to be reset from "child to adult"

I used to stay up - because when they came in is when they'd be talkative (and I couldn't sleep because not everyone was in their beds...). but I couldn't go to sleep even if they were home and just up late (because not everyone was in their beds)...  but when they just get older, and don't move out (what is this empty nest thing I keep hearing about?)... I had to learn to ignore them so I could sleep.   

[gardenmom5]

50 minutes ago, elegantlion said:

Here's the thing, some of that never goes away, even when they're moved out and paying all their own bills and not telling you all their plans. My mom and I had to talk about my expectations for ds and even today if I go out she'll remind me to not be out too late. She likes it when I call when I go back to school and it's an hour away from home. She called me a lot during the winter snow storms (when I was at school) to make sure I was okay. I know she does it from good intentions, not controlling, but it's a far cry from the mother who once scared the crap out of me as a teenager. I came home late and she stepped out of the dark bathroom and asked gruffly where I had been (pre-cell anything). I still remember that moment, but we've moved well beyond that sort of controlling angry mother - but she changed her tone in order for us to get to the point where I will call when I get back to school. 

Worrying about another person can be a sign of love and concern for their own well-being, but it's a fine line between that and coming off controlling. 

hmm - maybe because my grandmother was controlling, I do not do this with my own kids.  after awhile, it felt suffocating, and I refused to indulge her "need to know everything".

I don't think about my girls (both have their own homes), how late they're out, where they are, etc. unless there is something else going on (and the something else is what is getting attention).  I chat to catch up on what they're doing - but they're responsible adults with their own lives and I don't need to know that 1dd has to work through the night to reconfigure whatever, or that 2dd is working a late shift.  they're responsible adults, and I trust them to make good choices.  yes there are stupid people out there that can cause problems (1dd just had her car totaled by one, and 2dd had one nearly run her off the freeway when she was eight months pregnant.) - but they're everywhere and no one wants to be a hermit.

[Scarlett]

9 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

hmm - maybe because my grandmother was controlling, I do not do this with my own kids.  after awhile, it felt suffocating, and I refused to indulge her "need to know everything".

I don't think about my girls (both have their own homes), how late they're out, where they are, etc. unless there is something else going on (and the something else is what is getting attention).  I chat to catch up on what they're doing - but they're responsible adults with their own lives and I don't need to know that 1dd has to work through the night to reconfigure whatever, or that 2dd is working a late shift.  they're responsible adults, and I trust them to make good choices.  yes there are stupid people out there that can cause problems (1dd just had her car totaled by one, and 2dd had one nearly run her off the freeway when she was eight months pregnant.) - but they're everywhere and no one wants to be a hermit.

All of us have reactions and feelings and expectations shaped by our upbringing.  Few people had a childhood with nothing negative at all.  And there is danger in going to far in any direction with our thinking.  Not saying you do, just saying I am aware I have to be reasonable even when my inner child is not. 

[catz]

21 hours ago, Scarlett said:

 It doesn’t matter how quiet he is.  If he isn’t home I can’t sleep.  If I do go to sleep I wake up and wonder if he is home or in a ditch.  I just don’t want to deal with that stress.  

But this isn't actually his fault.  Do you generally have anxiety?  Maybe you could/should work on that piece of it instead of blaming him?  Is he in a position where moving out is a reasonable idea at this point?

I don't think an 11 pm curfew for a 19 year old is reasonable especially if it's 7 days a week.

[Tanaqui]

Quote

 

We are on the main floor sharing a wall with my 19 year old.  And yes Dh has said he could fix it.....tear the wall out and sound proof it....but it is just one more thing on our long list of things we want to do.  

 

 

Two words: Hanging tapestries. One on his side of the wall, one on yours. Presto! That and a white noise machine will do wonders. (I assume you already have carpets down.) DIY tapestries can't be any more expensive than DIY tearing down walls, and it's bound to be a lot less disruptive.

Quote

No it doesn’t.  It depends on the degree to which they are striving to support themselves.  

 

Surely he has shown that he is "striving to support himself" by the fact that he is continuing his education.

[Bootsie]

I have a much younger sibling who stayed with me several months last year when she lost her job an was looking for a new job.  I would have never set a curfew for her. She was not paying rent nor was she working and earning money.  I still considered her an adult.  At times she made noise that disturbed me and I am sure that at times I made noise that disturbed her.  That happens when family lives together.  

Then a few months ago DD returned from a job overseas and had a few months before she was starting another job abroad.  She was not working at the moment.  We welcomed her home and viewed her as an adult even though she wasn't working at the moment.  

 

[ktgrok]

4 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

 

Two words: Hanging tapestries. One on his side of the wall, one on yours. Presto! That and a white noise machine will do wonders. (I assume you already have carpets down.) DIY tapestries can't be any more expensive than DIY tearing down walls, and it's bound to be a lot less disruptive.

 

Inexpensive blankets would also work, actually

[Tanaqui]

Especially if you put a bit of foam under them.

[hippiemamato3]

19 hours ago, Scarlett said:

No,  his father lives out of state.  I don’t think there is any way ds would want that.  Nor do I.  I just want him to be home by 11 or have a prearranged plan otherwise.  Really not too much to ask.  Well I do ask he take out the trash and make his bed every day and that is a struggle too,  because apparently no one in America makes their bed daily except me.  

 

You don't want him to live with his father, but you do want him to get an apartment...why not just have him move in with his dad? 

[hippiemamato3]

20 hours ago, Scarlett said:

The trouble is Cat that you can’t fathom a life unlike yours.  

What makes your life so different from Cat's? I find this back and forth confusing.

Never mind - I get it now.

Edited April 3, 2019 by hippiemamato3

[unsinkable]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Inexpensive blankets would also work, actually

 

Friends of mine hung/stapled thrift store comforters to shared walls. It works if you have a heavy duty staple gun with longer staples.

[Scarlett]

23 hours ago, OKBud said:

"Time perception" is the phrase if you're interested in this 🙂 

ETA-- I started reading about it when I had ADD people in my life. They have the exact opposite thing: no sense of time passing. So there's a real gulf between us. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4830363/

Very interesting.  

[Pen]

@OKBud and @Scarlett the time perception article is very interesting.  I’m glad it got posted in first place and then quoted so I noticed.

[Amber in SJ]

I haven't read all of the replies here because just from the first page and the last it seems like things got derailed.  Here is my experience with adult children living in the house.  He does not have a curfew per se, but he is expected to have an understanding of common courtesy.  If he gets out of class at 9:40 pm and decides he is going to go study or hang out it is only common courtesy to text mom or dad so no one thinks he is dead in a ditch.  If he does not text me, I will text him asking if he is dead in a ditch.  Maybe he & whomever he is hanging out with will get a good laugh at his uncool mom.  I don't care.  I am not treating him like a child.  If Dh, who plays hockey late at night, didn't get home when I expected, he would get a text too.  This is one of the consequences of living at home.  If he wasn't living here I wouldn't know when to expect him home & therefore wouldn't worry.  I go to bed at 10:30pm.  If he gets home after 10:30pm he may not make an excessive amount of noise & wake up younger siblings, he may not cook food (but eating something like yogurt or a sandwich is OK,) he may not take a shower.  Plans should have been made for the shower before the middle of the night.  He may not watch TV, play video games, or listen to creepy podcasts without using headphones.  Why do I have so many really specific examples?  Because I have been through this more than once.  Other than expecting to know when he would be home, all of these things are common courtesy things that he would be expected to think about if he lived with a roommate.  You are not infantilizing him by expecting common courtesy.  Each of these things were dealt with one at a time;

"Hey!  I had a hard time falling asleep last night after you came home at midnight and banged around the kitchen......In the future could you take off your shoes?"

As for consequences....That is a tough one.  I am more of a rewarder than a punisher.   And the sad fact is 18-20 year olds are notoriously inconsiderate.

Hang in there, I hope you find a good place of balance.

Amber in SJ

[Scarlett]

55 minutes ago, Amber in SJ said:

I haven't read all of the replies here because just from the first page and the last it seems like things got derailed.  Here is my experience with adult children living in the house.  He does not have a curfew per se, but he is expected to have an understanding of common courtesy.  If he gets out of class at 9:40 pm and decides he is going to go study or hang out it is only common courtesy to text mom or dad so no one thinks he is dead in a ditch.  If he does not text me, I will text him asking if he is dead in a ditch.  Maybe he & whomever he is hanging out with will get a good laugh at his uncool mom.  I don't care.  I am not treating him like a child.  If Dh, who plays hockey late at night, didn't get home when I expected, he would get a text too.  This is one of the consequences of living at home.  If he wasn't living here I wouldn't know when to expect him home & therefore wouldn't worry.  I go to bed at 10:30pm.  If he gets home after 10:30pm he may not make an excessive amount of noise & wake up younger siblings, he may not cook food (but eating something like yogurt or a sandwich is OK,) he may not take a shower.  Plans should have been made for the shower before the middle of the night.  He may not watch TV, play video games, or listen to creepy podcasts without using headphones.  Why do I have so many really specific examples?  Because I have been through this more than once.  Other than expecting to know when he would be home, all of these things are common courtesy things that he would be expected to think about if he lived with a roommate.  You are not infantilizing him by expecting common courtesy.  Each of these things were dealt with one at a time;

"Hey!  I had a hard time falling asleep last night after you came home at midnight and banged around the kitchen......In the future could you take off your shoes?"

As for consequences....That is a tough one.  I am more of a rewarder than a punisher.   And the sad fact is 18-20 year olds are notoriously inconsiderate.

Hang in there, I hope you find a good place of balance.

Amber in SJ

Thank you.  Very helpful. 

[Pen]

2 hours ago, Amber in SJ said:

I haven't read all of the replies here because just from the first page and the last it seems like things got derailed.  Here is my experience with adult children living in the house.  He does not have a curfew per se, but he is expected to have an understanding of common courtesy.  If he gets out of class at 9:40 pm and decides he is going to go study or hang out it is only common courtesy to text mom or dad so no one thinks he is dead in a ditch.  If he does not text me, I will text him asking if he is dead in a ditch.  Maybe he & whomever he is hanging out with will get a good laugh at his uncool mom.  I don't care.  I am not treating him like a child.  If Dh, who plays hockey late at night, didn't get home when I expected, he would get a text too.  This is one of the consequences of living at home.  If he wasn't living here I wouldn't know when to expect him home & therefore wouldn't worry.  I go to bed at 10:30pm.  If he gets home after 10:30pm he may not make an excessive amount of noise & wake up younger siblings, he may not cook food (but eating something like yogurt or a sandwich is OK,) he may not take a shower.  Plans should have been made for the shower before the middle of the night.  He may not watch TV, play video games, or listen to creepy podcasts without using headphones.  Why do I have so many really specific examples?  Because I have been through this more than once.  Other than expecting to know when he would be home, all of these things are common courtesy things that he would be expected to think about if he lived with a roommate.  You are not infantilizing him by expecting common courtesy.  Each of these things were dealt with one at a time;

"Hey!  I had a hard time falling asleep last night after you came home at midnight and banged around the kitchen......In the future could you take off your shoes?"

As for consequences....That is a tough one.  I am more of a rewarder than a punisher.   And the sad fact is 18-20 year olds are notoriously inconsiderate.

Hang in there, I hope you find a good place of balance.

Amber in SJ

 

This to me sounds very reasonable.  

[gardenmom5]

On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 7:52 PM, Catwoman said:

 

Thank you. I appreciate that. 

 

I have NEVER said that your life was poor or pathetic. I have NEVER judged you in that way. Maybe that’s how you secretly feel about your life, but I have NEVER judged you based on your financial status.  Why would it matter? Why would I care? You are the one who keeps judging me so negatively, and it’s not only offensive, but it’s also getting ridiculous. It’s like you keep looking for excuses to keep trotting out your same, tired “wealth and privilege” remarks and intimations to try to discount everything I say.

Seriously Scarlett, this thread was about whether a 19yo should have an 11:00 curfew. You are the one who is turning it into judging other people based on their perceived “wealth and privilege.” What’s up with that? I can’t figure out why money would have the slightest thing to do with whether or not the women on this forum would impose a curfew on their adult children. 

 

neither can I - and I've been broke for prolonged periods.   I've been below poverty level broke as a parent with children.  and I've been comfortable.    I have associated irl with those who are qualified as accredited investors  - and those on welfare and living in section 8 housing.   I didn't impose a curfew on my kids - even if I didn't sleep when they were out/up.  I had enough respect for my adult kids to not treat them like a child who needs to be micromanaged.   

when I see how these threads devolve, I keep thinking of something Miss Manners wrote - so many years ago... "there is nothing like the snobbery of those who aspire to the lower classes."  (I say this because I see this attitude continually rearing it's ugly head.  I've seen it on many threads.)

 

[gardenmom5]

4 hours ago, Amber in SJ said:

I haven't read all of the replies here because just from the first page and the last it seems like things got derailed.  Here is my experience with adult children living in the house.  He does not have a curfew per se, but he is expected to have an understanding of common courtesy.  If he gets out of class at 9:40 pm and decides he is going to go study or hang out it is only common courtesy to text mom or dad so no one thinks he is dead in a ditch.  If he does not text me, I will text him asking if he is dead in a ditch.  Maybe he & whomever he is hanging out with will get a good laugh at his uncool mom.  I don't care.  I am not treating him like a child.  If Dh, who plays hockey late at night, didn't get home when I expected, he would get a text too.  This is one of the consequences of living at home.  If he wasn't living here I wouldn't know when to expect him home & therefore wouldn't worry.  I go to bed at 10:30pm.  If he gets home after 10:30pm he may not make an excessive amount of noise & wake up younger siblings, he may not cook food (but eating something like yogurt or a sandwich is OK,) he may not take a shower.  Plans should have been made for the shower before the middle of the night.  He may not watch TV, play video games, or listen to creepy podcasts without using headphones.  Why do I have so many really specific examples?  Because I have been through this more than once.  Other than expecting to know when he would be home, all of these things are common courtesy things that he would be expected to think about if he lived with a roommate.  You are not infantilizing him by expecting common courtesy.  Each of these things were dealt with one at a time;

"Hey!  I had a hard time falling asleep last night after you came home at midnight and banged around the kitchen......In the future could you take off your shoes?"

As for consequences....That is a tough one.  I am more of a rewarder than a punisher.   And the sad fact is 18-20 year olds are notoriously inconsiderate.

Hang in there, I hope you find a good place of balance.

Amber in SJ

I sent emails of this nature to my girls when they were across the country at college.

"polite children will let their parents know they're still alive"...;p

 

  

[Garga]

 

 

 

7 hours ago, hippiemamato3 said:

 

You don't want him to live with his father, but you do want him to get an apartment...why not just have him move in with his dad? 

Scarlett’s son doesn’t like his father.  He doesn’t want to move in with him.  It’s not Scarlett who doesn’t want her son to move in with his father...the son doesn’t want it.  Plus the father is a state away from son’s work and college, so even if son wanted to move in with dad, it wouldn’t work.

[Laura Corin]

I don't have curfews for my young adult sons (18 and 22) when they are home.

When they go out, I go to bed with the expectation that they might stay over at a friend's house. My phone is set to receive their calls, or repeated calls from another phone, so they can contact me if they need to. They are adults.

[LisaKinVA]

We do... so far it hasn't been an issue, mostly because where we live, he can't get himself to/from anywhere.  However, once we return stateside, this will become an issue, as oldest is living at home and going to college.  He will have to leave the house pretty early for swim practice Mon-Fri, so any issues will probably self-correct due to that!

In general, we've sat him down and talked about house rules and courtesy.  House rules are about standards for the house (he has younger siblings -- when we first discussed this, I know he thought we were overreacting, and then his younger brother asked some pointed questions -- unprompted -- and proved our point).  Common courtesy is simply, we share the space, take care of yours, help out around the house, and don't make us worry or wake us up.  In practical terms, he cleans up after himself, helps out with the dog, trash, dishes, yard, whatever, texts us if his plans change, or if he's going to be out later than expected (ALWAYS), and doesn't wake us up.  That's the short & sweet edition.  

We've had the big talks about alcohol (he's been able to legally drink here for 3 years), the talks have included mixed-gender parties (never gone to one), NEVER driving, setting limit BEFORE you drink, not drinking in secret, etc., etc.

[DawnM]

21 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Yes I am aware a lot of kids resent their parents.  Do you think parenting and household decisions should be based upon avoiding all resentment?  Because some people resent EVERYTHING and some people resent nothing.

My son is already out and dong his own thing and I don’t know and don’t ask.  

 And no saying he will be home at 6 a.m. would not work for me if he then just randomly showed up earlier because I would still have the expectation of wondering if and when he would show up.   

I don’t think people are understanding that the noise, although irritating at times is not the issue.  It is the waiting and wondering. 

 

I think I am understanding to a point.  If he says he will be in at 6am though, are you wondering and worrying at 4am what is happening?  That is the part I am not quite clear about.

I mean, it is your house, if your rule is an 11pm curfew or you have to move out, then, so be it.  However, I think that may cause more issues between the two of you than you want to have.  And I also think that as our kids mature, WE have changes to make in our expectations and that is hard on US!  It is a huge adjustment.  

So, it may take some tweaking and adjusting on both ends (yours and his) before you work it out.  I think most of us are just saying, you need to adjust too, not just your son.  I am still working on it.   And some of it is dependent on the kid.  My oldest doesn't drive, so he does have to adjust more to our schedule.  I won't pick him up at 2am!  I need sleep!  But if middle son goes out with friends until 2am and is quiet when he comes home and I know who he is with, I am fine with it.  It took a whiule to get there, but.....

[Bootsie]

I think framing the issue as a "curfew" has a major impact on how it is perceived.  The use of that makes it sound as if it is a parent-imposed rule on a child.  I think framing things as, "we do not want people coming into the house after X; it disturbs our sleep.   I will appreciate your respecting this." comes across very differently.  
One major issue that needs to be address is how will this curfew, rule, request, or whatever it is called, be enforced?   What happens if someone in the family is going to be returning home later than the set time (for whatever reason--working late, studying with classmates, watching a movie with a friend).  Is it simply a situation where no one is supposed to come in between 11pm and 6am to prevent disturbing others.  So, if they are out later they are responsible for finding another place to spend the night?  Or, is there some parent imposed punishment--removing car keys, withholding allowance, etc.?  Or, is it simply a request that you are hoping the child will be respectful enough to adhere to in most cases? If this isn't clear, it simply becomes a power struggle between parent and adult child.

[unsinkable]

On 4/2/2019 at 7:27 PM, OKBud said:

"Time perception" is the phrase if you're interested in this 🙂 

ETA-- I started reading about it when I had ADD people in my life. They have the exact opposite thing: no sense of time passing. So there's a real gulf between us. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4830363/

 

But I have both...awesome time perception in some situations...I never have needed an alarm clock; I can simply wake up when I need to or wake up when someone is expected home. For years, my DH worked a wacky second shift. He got off at 2 am but if there was a trauma, he'd stay. My body didn't know there was a trauma, though, and I'd wake up when I expected him.

Other times, I get lost in what I am doing and lose track of time or underestimate how long something will take to do. I have to compensate for those tendencies, by:

setting timers when I am awake

or adding 30 minutes to an ETD

or simply not getting involved in another project when I have to leave or start a different project.

But then again if my brain is super busy (like cooking a multi-course meal) I don't need timers. They make things worse.

So, my conclusion is: depending upon in busy my brain is, is how well my time perception works. 

 

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

I think I am understanding to a point.  If he says he will be in at 6am though, are you wondering and worrying at 4am what is happening?  That is the part I am not quite clear about.

I mean, it is your house, if your rule is an 11pm curfew or you have to move out, then, so be it.  However, I think that may cause more issues between the two of you than you want to have.  And I also think that as our kids mature, WE have changes to make in our expectations and that is hard on US!  It is a huge adjustment.  

So, it may take some tweaking and adjusting on both ends (yours and his) before you work it out.  I think most of us are just saying, you need to adjust too, not just your son.  I am still working on it.   And some of it is dependent on the kid.  My oldest doesn't drive, so he does have to adjust more to our schedule.  I won't pick him up at 2am!  I need sleep!  But if middle son goes out with friends until 2am and is quiet when he comes home and I know who he is with, I am fine with it.  It took a whiule to get there, but.....

No.  I am not wondering what is happening.  He is a good kid and not likely to be out doing anything dangerous or horrible. It is just the anticipation.  Is he coming home?  When?  Is that car his?  No.  Oh wait, was the front door opening?  No, just the cat.  

Of course there is the normal mom in me that if I lie there long enough wondering I do start to think, 'what if he has driven off the dyke and is upside down in the water.'  So there is that.  But mostly it is that the anticipation drives me nuts.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

I think framing the issue as a "curfew" has a major impact on how it is perceived.  The use of that makes it sound as if it is a parent-imposed rule on a child.  I think framing things as, "we do not want people coming into the house after X; it disturbs our sleep.   I will appreciate your respecting this." comes across very differently.  
One major issue that needs to be address is how will this curfew, rule, request, or whatever it is called, be enforced?   What happens if someone in the family is going to be returning home later than the set time (for whatever reason--working late, studying with classmates, watching a movie with a friend).  Is it simply a situation where no one is supposed to come in between 11pm and 6am to prevent disturbing others.  So, if they are out later they are responsible for finding another place to spend the night?  Or, is there some parent imposed punishment--removing car keys, withholding allowance, etc.?  Or, is it simply a request that you are hoping the child will be respectful enough to adhere to in most cases? If this isn't clear, it simply becomes a power struggle between parent and adult child.

Yes I think there is something to this.  I do think it is maybe too late to change the terminology.  Maybe?  I don't know.

I am not going to punish a 19 year old.  To me he is enough of an adult that he should in general, and most times, respect the house rules and be respectful enough in general to not keep me awake.  The consequence if he continues to disrespect our home is that he will need to find another place to live.  And I don't want it to be a big blow up.  Or me 'kicking him out.'  So I found a way, with the help of a few people here who have been through this, to frame it as 'hey I know you are an adult and all, but I need my sleep.  Do you think that is reasonable?  Ok, ty.' 

When I made this thread I was exhausted and upset. You would think I would learn to not post during those times. I asked if those who had young adults in their home had expectations of when they should be home and how did you handle repeat violators of that. It wasn't a JAWM thread.  But nor do I have to agree with all comments to me.    I guess I just needed someone to say, 'hey, it is your house and if you need him home by 11 that is your decision.'  A few did tell me that.  Of course as normal others have to add in that I am unreasonable/unstable/in need of psychological help.  But all is well.  He and I are fine.  

[DawnM]

50 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

No.  I am not wondering what is happening.  He is a good kid and not likely to be out doing anything dangerous or horrible. It is just the anticipation.  Is he coming home?  When?  Is that car his?  No.  Oh wait, was the front door opening?  No, just the cat.  

Of course there is the normal mom in me that if I lie there long enough wondering I do start to think, 'what if he has driven off the dyke and is upside down in the water.'  So there is that.  But mostly it is that the anticipation drives me nuts.

 

My point is that you will need to find a way to work on that.  That isn't HIS issue.  And it isn't fair to penalize him for your anxiety. 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

My point is that you will need to find a way to work on that.  That isn't HIS issue.  And it isn't fair to penalize him for your anxiety. 

I understand that some see it as anxiety.  And that I need to work on it.  I just disagree.  I think it is more reasonable he just be home at an agreed upon time.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Ok...I can't read 7 pages of messages.  I scanned part of page 1 and 7.  

No curfews here.  EVERYONE is responsible to be respectful.  Respectful means letting people know when you'll be around and when you won't.  :shrug: When the oldest two were teens, that meant calling/texting by 6:30 and then again "as necessary" (changing locations, people you're with, etc) letting us know what is up.  They now have their own home and don't do that. Well, except the 24yo is here during the week so we do ask him to as I'm planning on him being here for supper unless I know otherwise. 

As for the worrying because he could be upside down in a ditch?  Yeah, I get that.  And that is why they should let us know what's up.  "Hey mom, not gonna be home til closer to midnight." But it isn't their problem if that means we choose to stay up til midnight to make sure they got home.  It might make more sense to set an alarm for midnight to make sure he made it home so you can sleep two hours in between.  You *will* be able to learn to.  I mean, you'd have to if he moved out, right?  I mean, I was anxious when the kids moved out.  I was even more anxious when my daughter ended up living alone 95% of the time.  But I did learn to chill.  It is a choice.  You can do this.  Its not wise to treat him like he is 15 when he is an adult.

But it absolutely makes sense that he has to be respectful.  Each household member lets each other know when they'll be home.  And each is quiet when other family members are sleeping.  If you can't do that, there is a problem.  For an adult, that may mean needing to find other living arrangements.  

But it probably won't come down to that.  Probably, he just needs to be more respectful and you have to let him grow up 🙂

 

[Scarlett]

38 minutes ago, Pamela H in Texas said:

Ok...I can't read 7 pages of messages.  I scanned part of page 1 and 7.  

No curfews here.  EVERYONE is responsible to be respectful.  Respectful means letting people know when you'll be around and when you won't.  :shrug: When the oldest two were teens, that meant calling/texting by 6:30 and then again "as necessary" (changing locations, people you're with, etc) letting us know what is up.  They now have their own home and don't do that. Well, except the 24yo is here during the week so we do ask him to as I'm planning on him being here for supper unless I know otherwise. 

As for the worrying because he could be upside down in a ditch?  Yeah, I get that.  And that is why they should let us know what's up.  "Hey mom, not gonna be home til closer to midnight." But it isn't their problem if that means we choose to stay up til midnight to make sure they got home.  It might make more sense to set an alarm for midnight to make sure he made it home so you can sleep two hours in between.  You *will* be able to learn to.  I mean, you'd have to if he moved out, right?  I mean, I was anxious when the kids moved out.  I was even more anxious when my daughter ended up living alone 95% of the time.  But I did learn to chill.  It is a choice.  You can do this.  Its not wise to treat him like he is 15 when he is an adult.

But it absolutely makes sense that he has to be respectful.  Each household member lets each other know when they'll be home.  And each is quiet when other family members are sleeping.  If you can't do that, there is a problem.  For an adult, that may mean needing to find other living arrangements.  

But it probably won't come down to that.  Probably, he just needs to be more respectful and you have to let him grow up 🙂

 

It is a long thread.  🙂  But the thing is I don't stay awake worrying or really worry at all when he isn't here.  It is the not knowing when he will come in. The anticipation.  

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I understand that some see it as anxiety.  And that I need to work on it.  I just disagree.  I think it is more reasonable he just be home at an agreed upon time.

 

Ok, next time just put a JAWM.  

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Yes I think there is something to this.  I do think it is maybe too late to change the terminology.  Maybe?  I don't know.

 

I think you should change the terminology.  

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I am not going to punish a 19 year old.  To me he is enough of an adult that he should in general, and most times, respect the house rules and be respectful enough in general to not keep me awake.  The consequence if he continues to disrespect our home is that he will need to find another place to live.  And I don't want it to be a big blow up.  Or me 'kicking him out.'  So I found a way, with the help of a few people here who have been through this, to frame it as 'hey I know you are an adult and all, but I need my sleep.  Do you think that is reasonable?  Ok, ty.' 

 

Good. 

 

29 minutes ago, DawnM said:

 

My point is that you will need to find a way to work on that.  That isn't HIS issue.  And it isn't fair to penalize him for your anxiety. 

 

Actually, she doesn’t have to.

 Even if it is her anxiety.  

If he were to want to have a party with numerous friends invited, or want to play music at night even if under the legal decibels for sound permitted in their jurisdiction, it really isn’t equally a young adult’s house to say something like, hey, I’ll be having 100 or even just 10 friends over on Saturday, if you don’t like it, see a shrink.  Or I have the right to play my stereo any time I want to, if you don’t like it or can’t sleep, it’s up to you to soundproof, wear earplugs, or see a shrink.  

The young adult can move to their own digs perhaps an apartment complex where many aspects of young adult living are the norm if such conflicts arise and cannot be worked out to some mutually satisfactory arrangement.  

OTOH, it could also be helpful to all involved  if Scarlett worked on not jumping to “in a ditch” mental images .  But I’m sure she already knows that.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, DawnM said:

 

Ok, next time just put a JAWM.  

Well, when I am looking for JAWM I will do that.  

[DawnM]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Well, when I am looking for JAWM I will do that.  

 

There is a reason this thread is 7 pages long.....

[Aura]

I have a 19yo, sophmore in college. For her, an 11pm "curfew" is unreasonable. Granted, probably a good 5 out of 7 nights she's home by 9:00, but that's only because her current job ends at 8:00. Before that, she wouldn't get home from work until after 11:00. And then there's always the movie/game nights with friends and the long study group nights where everyone is prepping for some major test. 

Fortunately, she also has a great relationship with her boyfriend, and they help keep tabs on each other. They make sure to text each other when they get home to let the other know they got there safely. It helps that they're almost always awake at the same time anyway! It helps me not to worry so much. I wonder, Scarlett, if something like this would help you? If your ds had a friend that they agreed to keep up with, then you could put on some white noise and go to sleep knowing that if your ds doesn't get home, his friend will call/text you that he hasn't heard from him?

[Scarlett]

27 minutes ago, Aura said:

I have a 19yo, sophmore in college. For her, an 11pm "curfew" is unreasonable. Granted, probably a good 5 out of 7 nights she's home by 9:00, but that's only because her current job ends at 8:00. Before that, she wouldn't get home from work until after 11:00. And then there's always the movie/game nights with friends and the long study group nights where everyone is prepping for some major test. 

Fortunately, she also has a great relationship with her boyfriend, and they help keep tabs on each other. They make sure to text each other when they get home to let the other know they got there safely. It helps that they're almost always awake at the same time anyway! It helps me not to worry so much. I wonder, Scarlett, if something like this would help you? If your ds had a friend that they agreed to keep up with, then you could put on some white noise and go to sleep knowing that if your ds doesn't get home, his friend will call/text you that he hasn't heard from him?

Again, it isn't that I am worried about him.  It is the not knowing when he will be coming home that is the main problem.  The anticipation.  If I had an arrangement where someone was going to call/text me if they didn't hear from him...I would just be in a constant state of 'waiting' for that call/text.  If he says he will be home by 11 I am fine until 11 and then it is waiting, waiting, waiting. No possible way I could sleep. 

[Katy]

I saw #5 on this list and had to laugh- https://www.southernliving.com/culture/southern-dad-dating-quotes