Curfews for young adults

[DesertBlossom]

3 minutes ago, hshibley said:

If you feel your adult child living at home is mooching off of you then you are better off kicking them out and trying to rebuild a relationship where you both respect each other as people. 

Going out to a late movie with your stepbrother is not being out all hours being dumb. To be honest I’d be happy that my step kids got along so well. 

I have adult children. Two done with college and off on their own working one in college home for summer and breaks. We don’t have curfews for adults. 

Oh for goodness sake, I was being silly about the mooching. But if you're living at home because you don't have the financial means to live on your own, you're not fully launched, I don't care what age you are.

I have also lived back with my parents two different times while married with kids. Once when we moved back to my home state and DH was looking for a job and again while we remodeled a house. And I was very aware that we were benefitting from their generosity. And even in those circumstances I felt it polite to let my parents know general plans and when to expect us, etc.

I don't know why you would assume thatI would think going out to a late movie with a sibling is being dumb. It's a planned activity with a estimated end time. If my young adult kids said, "hey we're going to a midnight movie and we'll be back at 2am" I'd be incredibly grateful for the heads-up and probably sleep okay without them home. If they left at 6pm and didn't say where they were going or didn't share any plans about when they'd be home I'd sleep fitfully till 2am until they came home. For young adults it's not about asking permission- it's about being respectful to the people who gave you life, who still love and worry about you even though you think you're all grown up now. 

[Tanaqui]

9 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

It wasn’t the movie or who he was with or even how late it was.  It was the total disregard for the people he lives because he KNOWS I will wake up and not be able to sleep.  That part was definitely dumb.

 

Sometimes people make mistakes. It might not be because they have "total disregard for the people they live with", there could be any number of reasons, starting with simple forgetfulness and ending with the desire to avoid a guilt trip. (And you can still have that desire even if you also think your mother wouldn't do that to you.)

Quote

Perhaps.  But why? Why must I twist myself into a pretzel to accommodate a young man disregarding a basic house rule.  

 

Because that's how compromise works. You agree to some concessions, and they agree to others. When you respect people, you do not assume bad faith when they don't do what you like. You compromise with them rather than imposing rules without consideration of their needs.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Tanaqui

[Pen]

 

1 minute ago, DesertBlossom said:

For young adults it's not about asking permission- it's about being respectful to the people who gave you life, who still love and worry about you even though you think you're all grown up now. 

 

Maybe that’s a different level of being grown up. It sounds like the dc in this case aren’t there yet.  

[Frances]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Perhaps.  But why? Why must I twist myself into a pretzel to accommodate a young man disregarding a basic house rule.  

Because it’s probably healthier for everyone involved and better for relationships. Most young adults do not have an 11 pm curfew. In many cases it wouldn’t even be practical due to work, commutes, study groups, etc. And as I said up thread, I think not having a curfew would actually help with your adjustment because you are not expecting him at a certain time.

[Scarlett]

Btw, my son came home and was super friendly and agreeable.  Even after a tense texting exchange earlier in the day.  He told me earlier he had misread the time....shrug..maybe true, maybe not.  

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Frances said:

Because it’s probably healthier for everyone involved and better for relationships. Most young adults do not have an 11 pm curfew. In many cases it wouldn’t even be practical due to work, commutes, study groups, etc. And as I said up thread, I think not having a curfew would actually help with your adjustment because you are not expecting him at a certain time.

There are two people involved—-my son and me.  It is definitely not healthier for me.  And just because the young adults in your world don’t have a 11 weekday curfew doesn’t mean it is the same everywhere.  My son has no need to be out after 11 beyond total entertainment.  Which I am not opposed to but it is definitely not some right.  Or need.  

[Scarlett]

10 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 

Sometimes people make mistakes. It might not be because they have "total disregard for the people they live with", there could be any number of reasons, starting with simple forgetfulness and ending with the desire to avoid a guilt trip. (And you can still have that desire even if you also think your mother wouldn't do that to you.)

 

Because that's how compromise works. You agree to some concessions, and they agree to others. When you respect people, you do not assume bad faith when they don't do what you like. You compromise with them rather than imposing rules without consideration of their needs.

My guess....based upon being the mother of these two boys...is they decided it was  better to ask for forgiveness than permission.  

And my compromise is that I pay their living Expenses and they respect my need for sleep.  

[Tanaqui]

That's not a compromise, Scarlett. That's you issuing an ultimatum. You can do that, but it's going to have effects down the road.

You guess that they decided to "ask forgiveness rather than permission" (despite you saying elsewhere that permission would have been granted if they'd asked)? Well, if that's the case, here's my guess: My guess is that they're gonna keep acting like this as long as you keep issuing rules about when they're allowed to be out, up until either they move out (willingly or not), or you change your approach. You really will get better results, short and long term, if you start by listening. You can practice here and then try it out over there.

As for what your son needs, you're not the one who gets to determine that. HE is. And clearly it IS "the same" where you are, because he has friends out and about with him at that hour. You're the outlier.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Tanaqui

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

That's not a compromise, Scarlett. That's you issuing an ultimatum. You can do that, but it's going to have effects down the road.

My guess is that they're gonna keep acting like this as long as you keep issuing rules about when they're allowed to be out, up until either they move out (willingly or not), or you change your approach. You really will get better results, short and long term, if you start by listening. You can practice here and then try it out over there.

As for what your son needs, you're not the one who gets to determine that. HE is. And clearly it IS "the same" where you are, because he has friends out and about with him at that hour. You're the outlier.

His friend he is out and about with is 25 and has his own apartment.  When he was 19 he definitely had a curfew.  I just talked to his mom today.  

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Scarlett, do they have jobs, bills, classes?

Ds19 works one day a week. 13 hours of classes.  No bills.   None.  

[Tanaqui]

Oh, of course. I believe you.

So... well, what time was that curfew?

[Scarlett]

7 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

That's not a compromise, Scarlett. That's you issuing an ultimatum. You can do that, but it's going to have effects down the road.

My guess is that they're gonna keep acting like this as long as you keep issuing rules about when they're allowed to be out, up until either they move out (willingly or not), or you change your approach. You really will get better results, short and long term, if you start by listening. You can practice here and then try it out over there.

As for what your son needs, you're not the one who gets to determine that. HE is. And clearly it IS "the same" where you are, because he has friends out and about with him at that hour. You're the outlier.

It is a compromise.  I wanted them home at 10 during the week.  My compromise was 11.  

And You think  will violate my rules as long as I have rules?

that is funny.

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Oh, of course. I believe you.

So... well, what time was that curfew?

Same as mine.  Flexibility like mine.  Her oldest never went by her rules and thus was out of the house at 18.  Even before he was graduated she put all of his stuff in trash bags and took it to his car at school and told him to find another place to live since he didnt like her rules.  

Edited April 3, 2019 by Scarlett

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

It might be time to increase responsibility.  Go slow, you don't want to toss rent, cell phone, insurance, etc on him all at once.  But, start with one....maybe car insurance.  And, if he needs to increase his work hours to cover that and still pay for all his entertainment, well, so be it.  And then maybe add cell phone.  

I think if you want a 19yr old to learn some adult level maturity, it might be necessary to require some more adult level responsibility.  

It really isn’t that simple.  

His dad pays for his car, his car insurance,  his medical insurance. His school tuition.  An allowance for school expenses.  I give him room and board and pay his phone and his tolls.  

That was the agreement his dad and I made with him.  We do this, you do this.  

[EmseB]

I don't doubt that Scarlett has a legit problem sleeping not knowing that her DS is out and about. I can sympathize, even, because I have something like that in different circumstances.

I'm still not sure that it's reasonable to say that her issue means a 19yo man has to be home at 11:00 every night. I think it's considerate of him to let her know when he will be home, etc., but a curfew at his age (even still living at home) seems not the ideal solution for a young adult.

[Catwoman]

12 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

There are two people involved—-my son and me.  It is definitely not healthier for me.  And just because the young adults in your world don’t have a 11 weekday curfew doesn’t mean it is the same everywhere.  My son has no need to be out after 11 beyond total entertainment.  Which I am not opposed to but it is definitely not some right.  Or need.  

 

Your son is an adult. Why do you think you have the right to determine the specific situations and circumstances when he is allowed to be out past 11:00pm? Why do you feel that he shouldn’t be allowed to make his own choices? And so what if he decides that he wants to be out after 11:00 for “total entertainment” every night of the week? As long as he’s not shirking his other responsibilities, why do you think you should be able to make that decision for him? Why shouldn’t he be able to do what he wants to do?

19 is really, really old for a young adult to still have a curfew, and 11:00 is incredibly early. Does he also have a curfew on the weekend?

My ds19 still lives at home, too, but he is an equal member of this household, and our home will always be his home. We all make compromises for each other. But what I’m seeing in your posts makes it sound like your son and stepson are the ones who have to do all of the compromising, because you are The Parent and you are In Charge. Your sons are getting awfully old to be treated like children. It sounds like they are as quiet as possible when they come home at night, so it’s not as though they are being intentionally disruptive. I think it may be a good idea to consider some of the suggestions others here have made about finding a way to adapt to your sons coming home late, rather than forcing them to abide by such an early curfew. They both sound like very nice young men.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, EmseB said:

I don't doubt that Scarlett has a legit problem sleeping not knowing that her DS is out and about. I can sympathize, even, because I have something like that in different circumstances.

I'm still not sure that it's reasonable to say that her issue means a 19yo man has to be home at 11:00 every night. I think it's considerate of him to let her know when he will be home, etc., but a curfew at his age (even still living at home) seems not the ideal solution for a young adult.

Correct.  Ideal for a young adult would be for him to be in his own place that he pays for.  

[Catwoman]

10 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Same as mine.  Flexibility like mine.  Her oldest never went by her rules and thus was out of the house at 18.  Even before he was graduated she put all of his stuff in trash bags and took it to his car at school and told him to find another place to live since he didnt like her rules.  

 

Wow.

She sounds nice.

(Actually, she sounds pretty awful. What kind of horrible things did that kid do to deserve that kind of treatment? She put all of his stuff in TRASH BAGS??? I can’t even imagine a mother doing that to her own son.)

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

Your son is an adult. Why do you think you have the right to determine the specific situations and circumstances when he is allowed to be out past 11:00pm? Why do you feel that he shouldn’t be allowed to make his own choices? And so what if he decides that he wants to be out after 11:00 for “total entertainment” every night of the week? As long as he’s not shirking his other responsibilities, why do you think you should be able to make that decision for him? Why shouldn’t he be able to do what he wants to do?

19 is really, really old for a young adult to still have a curfew, and 11:00 is incredibly early. Does he also have a curfew on the weekend?

My ds19 still lives at home, too, but he is an equal member of this household, and our home will always be his home. We all make compromises for each other. But what I’m seeing in your posts makes it sound like your son and stepson are the ones who have to do all of the compromising, because you are The Parent and you are In Charge. Your sons are getting awfully old to be treated like children. It sounds like they are as quiet as possible when they come home at night, so it’s not as though they are being intentionally disruptive. I think it may be a good idea to consider some of the suggestions others here have made about finding a way to adapt to your sons coming home late, rather than forcing them to abide by such an early curfew. They both sound like very nice young men.

Your son pays an equal share of the expenses on your three houses?   That would be equal.  But really Cat your life can in in no way compare to my life.  I see that, not sure why you can’t.  

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Correct.  Ideal for a young adult would be for him to be in his own place that he pays for.  

 

At 19 while he’s still in college?

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Wait, I think I got confused.....is this your son, or step son?

My son. 

[Arctic Bunny]

I’m going to go thank my mom. After reading this thread, I just realized that all through high school, when I was going to be home from a friend’s house at, say 12, and I called her at 11 or 11:30 to ask permission to stay later, maybe 1:30.... all those times, I might have woken her up, but more than likely she was laying on a couch, not able to sleep! Never did she complain, only thanked me for letting her know. And probably thanking her lucky stars that her teenager was watching one more movie with a couple of friends, while giggling and eating too much junk food, lol.

Seriously must thank her!

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

At 19 while he’s still in college?

Oh true, 19 in college and not paying any expenses equals not adult.  

[Jaybee]

S/O because it isn't exactly a curfew issue, but when all my family is together and then disperses, I still ask even my adult married kids to shoot me a text when they get home (not local--a very long day trip). If they forget, I don't freak out or call them or anything; I just like knowing they made it home okay. And I tell my mom when we arrive home as well, because it is a many-hours trip and I know she will be concerned until she knows we are home. (And I am a grandmother.) It isn't a control issue; it's because I care about how she feels. I also tell my kids at home when to expect me or if we are going to be later than expected. And they are supposed to do the same. I've explained to our younger ones that it is just common courtesy to the people you live with, as dh and I let each other know general timeframes as well.

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Your son pays an equal share of the expenses on your three houses?   That would be equal.  But really Cat your life can in in no way compare to my life.  I see that, not sure why you can’t.  

 

My son doesn’t pay for any of the household expenses. That doesn’t make him any less of an equal member of our family, or give him any less rights than anyone else has.

What do you mean by my life not being able to compare with your life? We are both mothers of 19yo sons who live at home. That’s all this is about. 

 

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Wow.

She sounds nice.

(Actually, she sounds pretty awful. What kind of horrible things did that kid do to deserve that kind of treatment? She put all of his stuff in TRASH BAGS??? I can’t even imagine a mother doing that to her own son.)

She is a wonderful person.  And you really have no idea what he put her through.  And what is the big deal about trash bags.  Does it need to be designer luggage to be ok for you?

 

i mean you know the trash bags were clean right?

Edited April 3, 2019 by Scarlett

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Oh true, 19 in college and not paying any expenses equals not adult.  

 

Are you being intentionally obtuse, or are you really missing people’s points?

[hshibley]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Correct.  Ideal for a young adult would be for him to be in his own place that he pays for.  

Have you discussed this with him? Maybe it’s time for him to move out. He could find roommates at his college to share an apartment. He could pickup more work hours to pay for rent etc since his dad picks up tuition. 

In my experience you have to keep in mind your long term relationship with your adult children. I try to always ask myself is this something that will help or harm my relationship and act appropriately. 

If him living at home is building up resentment in you then maybe it’s time for a change. 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

Are you being intentionally obtuse, or are you really missing people’s points?

Neither.  You and others are confusing a legal adult with an actual adult.  

[Catwoman]

Just now, Scarlett said:

She is a wonderful person.  And you really have no idea what he put her through.  And what is the big deal about trash bags.  Does it need to be designer luggage to be ok for you?

 

Wow, Scarlett, what is your problem? 

Why do you have to bring money into every thread when you respond to my posts? 

You seem to have some serious resentment issues toward me.

I was staying on-topic. I feel that I can relate to this topic because we both have 19yo sons that live at home. You seem to want to resort to snide personal remarks. I hope you’ll knock it off because it’s getting really tedious.

And yes, I think it’s terrible that a mother would put her son’s belongings into garbage bags. It’s dehumanizing.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, hshibley said:

Have you discussed this with him? Maybe it’s time for him to move out. He could find roommates at his college to share an apartment. He could pickup more work hours to pay for rent etc since his dad picks up tuition. 

In my experience you have to keep in mind your long term relationship with your adult children. I try to always ask myself is this something that will help or harm my relationship and act appropriately. 

If him living at home is building up resentment in you then maybe it’s time for a change. 

I am not resentful that he lives at home. I am happy I and my dh and my xh can support him financially so he can have an easier time of getting through school. I feel zero guilt about expecting him to be home by 11 during the week.  I do get very annoyed when he defies that request.  But we are good.  He came home,we talked, all is well.  

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

Wow, Scarlett, what is your problem? 

Why do you have to bring money into every thread when you respond to my posts? 

You seem to have some serious resentment issues toward me.

I was staying on-topic. I feel that I can relate to this topic because we both have 19yo sons that live at home. You seem to want to resort to snide personal remarks. I hope you’ll knock it off because it’s getting really tedious.

And yes, I think it’s terrible that a mother would put her son’s belongings into garbage bags. It’s dehumanizing.

Our sons ages are the only thing we have in common Cat.  Get real.  

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Neither.  You and others are confusing a legal adult with an actual adult.  

 

He is an actual adult.

 But even if you want to say he’s still just a college kid, can’t you see that a 10:00 or 11:00 curfew is unreasonable for a college kid? That’s the kind of curfew a freshman in high school might have.

[Frances]

33 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

There are two people involved—-my son and me.  It is definitely not healthier for me.  And just because the young adults in your world don’t have a 11 weekday curfew doesn’t mean it is the same everywhere.  My son has no need to be out after 11 beyond total entertainment.  Which I am not opposed to but it is definitely not some right.  Or need.  

True, right now a lack of sleep is not healthy. But you agreed you could likely learn to overcome your current issue. And it would likely be better for family relationships in the long run. What if one of your sons gets a job that keeps them out after 11 pm? That is very likely at some point if your step son stays in the culinary arts. That’s why I think it’s better overall to work on adjusting now.

The family I mentioned way upthread where they all wear earplugs and have no curfew? They are an incredibly close knit family where the young adult children still regularly hang out together, even now that some have married. They’ve also had several foreign exchange students over the years and young adult friends of their children regularly spend nights at the house. 

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, hshibley said:

Have you discussed this with him? Maybe it’s time for him to move out. He could find roommates at his college to share an apartment. He could pickup more work hours to pay for rent etc since his dad picks up tuition. 

In my experience you have to keep in mind your long term relationship with your adult children. I try to always ask myself is this something that will help or harm my relationship and act appropriately. 

If him living at home is building up resentment in you then maybe it’s time for a change. 

Also, I have mentioned to him that I get that he might want to live on his own.  I acknowledge that is a normal right of passage and I won’t be offended if he chooses to move out and live on his own.  

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

He is an actual adult.

 But even if you want to say he’s still just a college kid, can’t you see that a 10:00 or 11:00 curfew is unreasonable for a college kid? That’s the kind of curfew a freshman in high school might have.

In your world probably.  Not mine.  

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Frances said:

True, right now a lack of sleep is not healthy. But you agreed you could likely learn to overcome your current issue. And it would likely be better for family relationships in the long run. What if one of your sons gets a job that keeps them out after 11 pm? That is very likely at some point if your step son stays in the culinary arts. That’s why I think it’s better overall to work on adjusting now.

The family I mentioned way upthread where they all wear earplugs and have no curfew? They are an incredibly close knit family where the young adult children still regularly hang out together, even now that some have married. They’ve also had several foreign exchange students over the years and young adult friends of their children regularly spend nights at the house. 

Dss was out past midnight many times with his job.  I consider that unavoidable.  He also keeps his Life 360 on, so if I wake up wondering I can check where he is.  

[Pen]

Could he stay with (or live with) his father?

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Our sons ages are the only thing we have in common Cat.  Get real.  

 

I don’t see that at all.  People don’t have to live the same kind of lifestyles in order to have things in common.

You and I are both about the same age. We are both married. We both have sons. We both love our families and would do anything for them. We both worry a lot about our families. We both want our kids to be happy and successful. We both worry about our husbands’ health. 

That’s quite a few things to have in common. I don’t know why you always want to make it all about money. It’s pretty clear to me that both of us have FAMILY as our main priority.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Pen said:

Could he stay with (or live with) his father?

No,  his father lives out of state.  I don’t think there is any way ds would want that.  Nor do I.  I just want him to be home by 11 or have a prearranged plan otherwise.  Really not too much to ask.  Well I do ask he take out the trash and make his bed every day and that is a struggle too,  because apparently no one in America makes their bed daily except me.  

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

I don’t see that at all.  People don’t have to live the same kind of lifestyles in order to have things in common.

You and I are both about the same age. We are both married. We both have sons. We both love our families and would do anything for them. We both worry a lot about our families. We both want our kids to be happy and successful. We both worry about our husbands’ health. 

That’s quite a few things to have in common. I don’t know why you always want to make it all about money. It’s pretty clear to me that both of us have FAMILY as our main priority.

Sure Cat in the abstract we both care about our families.  But we aren’t talking about abstracts.  We are talking about specifics where our worlds are not the same.  

[Pen]

 

4 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

That’s the kind of curfew a freshman in high school might have.

 

Or in some places, a 17 yo has to be in by 10 pm.  

Some example curfew ages and times

[Scarlett]

The trouble is Cat that you can’t fathom a life unlike yours.  

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

 

Or in some places, a 17 yo has to be in by 10 pm.  

Some example curfew ages and times

Remimds me of the summer I graduated high school and moved out to the city. My best friend and I were having the time of our lives.  I was still 17.  I got pulled over one night for not having my lights on....the policeman said something about curfew.....I had NO IDEA.  I literally said to the officer, what curfew? 

He shook his head and sent me on my way.  

[Catwoman]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

The trouble is Cat that you can’t fathom a life unlike yours.  

 

Actually, it seems like you are the one who can’t fathom a life unlike yours. 🙂 You seem to be discrediting anyone who disagrees with you.

Seriously, you should have made this thread a JAWM. You had no interest in hearing anything other than complete agreement that what you were doing was right. 

 

[Catwoman]

11 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Sure Cat in the abstract we both care about our families.  But we aren’t talking about abstracts.  We are talking about specifics where our worlds are not the same.  

 

I guess I just don’t understand how a 19yo’s curfew is such a specific thing that would be so different in “our worlds.”

I’m honestly trying to understand what you mean.

[Scarlett]

Just now, Catwoman said:

 

Actually, it seems like you are the one who can’t fathom a life unlike yours. 🙂 You seem to be discrediting anyone who disagrees with you.

Seriously, you should have made this thread a JAWM. You had no interest in hearing anything other than complete agreement that what you were doing was right. 

 

I guarantee you that I can picture your life more than you can picture mine.  

AND no I do not have to make a thread JAWM.  I wanted discussion, which I got but I also dont agree with all of it.  

[Catwoman]

Just now, happysmileylady said:

Annnnnnddddd, I'm out.

 

Too rich for my blood lol

 

LOL!  Don’t leave on my account! I thought you were being very helpful to Scarlett. 🙂

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Catwoman said:

 

I guess I just don’t understand how a 19yo’s curfew is such a specific thing that would be so different in “our worlds.”

I’m honestly trying to understand what you mean.

 No you aren’t.  

You know what I mean.  

Lets start with the noise factor alone.  I bet your son could come into your house and you never hear him.  

I can keep going.

You cannot relate. 

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Annnnnnddddd, I'm out.

 

Too rich for my blood lol

Ha,  not me that is too rich.