Curfews for young adults

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

I guarantee you that I can picture your life more than you can picture mine.  

AND no I do not have to make a thread JAWM.  I wanted discussion, which I got but I also dont agree with all of it.  

 

Oh please, Scarlett. You don’t have the slightest clue about my life, and you’re right that I don’t know about yours, either. But who cares? Why does it matter to you? I feel like we are in some kind of weird competition but nobody told me what it was about. I have no idea why you think a person’s financial status has anything to do with how they interact with or feel about their families.

And most of the topics on this forum have nothing to do with how much money anyone has or where they live. Most of the topics are pretty universal. 

[Scarlett]

Just now, happysmileylady said:

The argument has gone beyond my current brain capacity.  😀

Ah. I feel ya.  Mine too.

Enjoy the 10 year old.  Oh how I miss those days.  

[Scarlett]

Just now, Catwoman said:

 

Oh please, Scarlett. You don’t have the slightest clue about my life, and you’re right that I don’t know about yours, either. But who cares? Why does it matter to you? I feel like we are in some kind of weird competition but nobody told me what it was about. I have no idea why you think a person’s financial status has anything to do with how they interact with or feel about their families.

And most of the topics on this forum have nothing to do with how much money anyone has or where they live. Most of the topics are pretty universal. 

Actually Cat unless you are some massive liar I have a fair amount of idea about your life.  And you do mine unless you just haven’t been paying attention for the last 10 years or so.  

[Catwoman]

8 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

 No you aren’t.  

You know what I mean.  

Lets start with the noise factor alone.  I bet your son could come into your house and you never hear him.  

I can keep going.

You cannot relate. 

 

You would be wrong about the noise factor.

My son has size 12 feet and we have wood stairs.

You do the math. 😉

[Katy]

My mom had the same issue as Scarlett.  She had a curfew by which time she needed to be asleep to function the next day.  If we weren't having an emergency (car wreck or hospital level emergency) she expected us to be either home by the time she went to bed or plan on staying out until 5:30 am when she was awake again.

This was before cell phones were so common. As is I would just insist he leave the life360 on or set an alarm to text you when he will be home every single night 15 minutes before curfew.  Maybe all 3 - leave the app on, text where you are at 9:45pm, and don't come home until dawn if you're not home by 10.

And I truly don't think people who've never lived in rural Oklahoma can possibly understand how late young adults DON'T stay out there. When we lived there the bars in our area closed at 9 or 10pm. This was in a town with TWO colleges. There aren't late movies except in the two cities. This is still a place people judge you for doing yard work on Sundays and grocery stores have double coupon days on Tuesdays. Take whatever your social norm is for young adults still living at home and move it back to the 1950's and that might approach the typical there.  This isn't a place where you have to respect your child as an adult because they can rent a house in a nice neighborhood for $600-800 a month, and if they get roommates and none share a bedroom they could pay $200 rent per person. At that price there is no reason to be disrespectful of your parents and still living at home.

There are however, at least weekly car accidents where someone gets killed and several times a year there will be someone who went missing on a country road.  They almost always turn up dead in a single car accident under a bridge a few weeks later. There was one bridge on the highway between our house and Tulsa where THREE missing people were found in about 6 weeks, three different accidents. The tribal government in that area put up some concrete barrier to prevent cars from crashing there and the next day someone weaved AROUND it and still died under that bridge. Dying on the way home feels like a much more likely risk to kids in Oklahoma than pretty much any scary factor you can think of in a city, whether it's statistically true or not. Not only because it's all you see on the news, but because when you drive into Tulsa to get something at Whole Foods every time you come home you stop because some idiot college kids got in a single car wreck and need first aid and a ride to the hospital.

Scarlett, DH says he'd just put a GPS tracker in his truck because strategically turning off the app is a sign he's probably somewhere you wouldn't approve of anyway.

[Scarlett]

Just now, Catwoman said:

 

You would be wrong about the noise factor.

My son has size 12 feet and we have wood stairs.

You do the math. 😉

My sons have size 13 feet and we have wood stairs 6 feet from our bedroom.  And we share an uninsulated wall with my son.  And our bathrooms share an uninsulated wall. I can.literally hear my son breathing and sleep talking and moving in his bed.  I can literally hear my sons passing gas in their bathroom.  And I am not a bodily functions kind of mom.  

 

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Actually Cat unless you are some massive liar I have a fair amount of idea about your life.  And you do mine unless you just haven’t been paying attention for the last 10 years or so.  

 

What I meant was that the details don’t matter. I remember back when you were so scared that you’re now-ex-dh was cheating on you. I was really worried about you. It didn’t matter that our lifestyles were different. And when you were so nice back when my dh was sick, things like money never mattered then, either. 

I’m not sure where we went wrong. It would be nice to start over. I don’t like fighting with you. It seems so petty and stupid. (I mean the arguing seems petty and stupid — not that you are!)

[Catwoman]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

My sons have size 13 feet and we have wood stairs 6 feet from our bedroom.  And we share an uninsulated wall with my son.  And our bathrooms share an uninsulated wall. I can.literally hear my son breathing and sleep talking and moving in his bed.  I can literally hear my sons passing gas in their bathroom.  And I am not a bodily functions kind of mom.  

 

 

Ok, you win!  🤣

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Katy said:

My mom had the same issue as Scarlett.  She had a curfew by which time she needed to be asleep to function the next day.  If we weren't having an emergency (car wreck or hospital level emergency) she expected us to be either home by the time she went to bed or plan on staying out until 5:30 am when she was awake again.

This was before cell phones were so common. As is I would just insist he leave the life360 on or set an alarm to text you when he will be home every single night 15 minutes before curfew.  Maybe all 3 - leave the app on, text where you are at 9:45pm, and don't come home until dawn if you're not home by 10.

And I truly don't think people who've never lived in rural Oklahoma can possibly understand how late young adults DON'T stay out there. When we lived there the bars in our area closed at 9 or 10pm. This was in a town with TWO colleges. There aren't late movies except in the two cities. This is still a place people judge you for doing yard work on Sundays and grocery stores have double coupon days on Tuesdays. Take whatever your social norm is for young adults still living at home and move it back to the 1950's and that might approach the typical there.  This isn't a place where you have to respect your child as an adult because they can rent a house in a nice neighborhood for $600-800 a month, and if they get roommates and none share a bedroom they could pay $200 rent per person. At that price there is no reason to be disrespectful of your parents and still living at home.

There are however, at least weekly car accidents where someone gets killed and several times a year there will be someone who went missing on a country road.  They almost always turn up dead in a single car accident under a bridge a few weeks later. There was one bridge on the highway between our house and Tulsa where THREE missing people were found in about 6 weeks, three different accidents. The tribal government in that area put up some concrete barrier to prevent cars from crashing there and the next day someone weaved AROUND it and still died under that bridge. Dying on the way home feels like a much more likely risk to kids in Oklahoma than pretty much any scary factor you can think of in a city, whether it's statistically true or not. Not only because it's all you see on the news, but because when you drive into Tulsa to get something at Whole Foods every time you come home you stop because some idiot college kids got in a single car wreck and need first aid and a ride to the hospital.

Scarlett, DH says he'd just put a GPS tracker in his truck because strategically turning off the app is a sign he's probably somewhere you wouldn't approve of anyway.

OMG, i so thought about just putting a tracker on his car.  I felt a little psycho thinking it though. 

Yes to all your comments about how things are different in rural OK.  It really just isnt the same.  No study groups or the like.

ds claims his phone battery is drained by the Life 360 ap.  His dad calls bs....but I am more likely to believe ds...but why I don’t know.  I really truly have never caught this kid where he should not be or with someone he should-not be with.  

[DesertBlossom]

I don't know if I am missing some info (probably) but if your son is otherwise respectful and helpful and responsible in his life, I would not make this a hill to die on.  Yes, I think 11pm on weekdays (if it happens a lot) for a young adult that should be trying to keep up on his other responsibilities, but it might also be a gentle way to let him learn from his consequences. I remember staying out late and dragging myself to work the next morning and trying not to fall asleep all day. But I was still able to get done what needed to get done.

I wonder if this is the proverbial straw for you though. Is he missing school or work because of his late hours? Is he disrespectful and unhelpful about other things at home? Does he have an entitled attitude and expect more than he's willing to give? If so... I think that's a much bigger issue probably not easily resolved on a thread that is only talking about curfews.

[Shoeless]

21 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

 No you aren’t.  

You know what I mean.  

Lets start with the noise factor alone.  I bet your son could come into your house and you never hear him.  

I can keep going.

You cannot relate. 

 

But you said up thread that it wasn't an issue of noise.  You said it was your body anticipating his arrival.  So the size of Cat's home and whether she hears her kids come home late at night is irrelevant.

[Frances]

56 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Correct.  Ideal for a young adult would be for him to be in his own place that he pays for.  

Why? That can often just be a waste of money, especially if they are in college. It can also effect their grades which can be an even bigger issue. In many areas of the country, the COL is completely out of control. Saving money by living at home is one way many students are able to avoid debt and save for future expenses like a house. As someone who has shared your own financial struggles on this board, I would think you would want the best financial start possible for your son.

[Katy]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

OMG, i so thought about just putting a tracker on his car.  I felt a little psycho thinking it though. 

Yes to all your comments about how things are different in rural OK.  It really just isnt the same.  No study groups or the like.

ds claims his phone battery is drained by the Life 360 ap.  His dad calls bs....but I am more likely to believe ds...but why I don’t know.  I really truly have never caught this kid where he should not be or with someone he should-not be with.  

 

If you have no reason not to trust him you can probably trust your gut.

There's still no reason not to give him whatever rules you think are fair. It's truly NOT that difficult for him to be more respectful of your needs.

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

 

But you said up thread that it wasn't an issue of noise.  You said it was your body anticipating his arrival.  So the size of Cat's home and whether she hears her kids come home late at night is irrelevant.

It is not irrelevant to what Cat and I were discussing.  Which was that she can’t relate to my life.  

[Katy]

Just now, Frances said:

Why? That can often just be a waste of money, especially if they are in college. It can also effect their grades which can be an even bigger issue. In many areas of the country, the COL is completely out of control. Saving money by living at home is one way many students are able to avoid debt and save for future expenses like a house. As someone who has shared your own financial struggles on this board, I would think you would want the best financial start possible for your son.

 

COL in Oklahoma is very low.  So low it might be cheaper to subsidize his own apartment than it would to pay for prescription sleep medication and the appointments needed to stay on it.

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Frances said:

Why? That can often just be a waste of money, especially if they are in college. It can also effect their grades which can be an even bigger issue. In many areas of the country, the COL is completely out of control. Saving money by living at home is one way many students are able to avoid debt and save for future expenses like a house. As someone who has shared your own financial struggles on this board, I would think you would want the best financial start possible for your son.

Correct.,

which is why I offer him free room and board in exchange for consideration of my sleep needs.  

[Frances]

Just now, Katy said:

 

COL in Oklahoma is very low.  So low it might be cheaper to subsidize his own apartment than it would to pay for prescription sleep medication and the appointments needed to stay on it.

I’m not one of those advocating prescription sleep medicine. My advice was earplugs, time, and the right mindset. I’ve seen it work for several moms. Although after I saw what she is paying for, it seems like he could handle the cell phone and tolls since he is working.

[Shoeless]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

It is not irrelevant to what Cat and I were discussing.  Which was that she can’t relate to my life.  

That just sounds like sour grapes.  I don't know if you and Cat have some sort of history that would make you lash out, but you're coming across nasty.  Is that your intention?

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

COL in Oklahoma is very low.  So low it might be cheaper to subsidize his own apartment than it would to pay for prescription sleep medication and the appointments needed to stay on it.

Ha. Nearly.

But won’t be subsidizing an apartment.  And his dad has said he won’t give more either.  His dad already gives him a weekly allowance to cover getting to school etc.  if he wants to move out he will be living very frugally...he will need a roomate and need an inexpensive apartment.  I will keep paying his phone and tolls.  And of course I won’t let him go hungry.  

 

[Shoeless]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Correct.,

which is why I offer him free room and board in exchange for consideration of my sleep needs.  

I thought you said he gets free room and board because this was an arrangement you made with your ex husband?  You implied the arrangement couldn't be changed because it was one that was made with your ex and not your son, and that's why your son couldn't pay for his own car insurance and phone.    

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

That just sounds like sour grapes.  I don't know if you and Cat have some sort of history that would make you lash out, but you're coming across nasty.  Is that your intention?

Um, maybe? Sour grapes no, but it gets old having a person of wealth and privilege tell little old me how to live my poor pathetic life.  

[Shoeless]

Wow.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, MissLemon said:

I thought you said he gets free room and board because this was an arrangement you made with your ex husband?  You implied the arrangement couldn't be changed because it was one that was made with your ex and not your son, and that's why your son couldn't pay for his own car insurance and phone.    

No, you misunderstood that completely.  Xh and I made agreements...separately but jointly to share expenses so ds cold have an easier time of college.  I did t say it couldn’t be changed. P

[Shoeless]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

No, you misunderstood that completely.  Xh and I made agreements...separately but jointly to share expenses so ds cold have an easier time of college.  I did t say it couldn’t be changed. P

You said a few pages back, when someone suggested your son take on more adult responsibilities and start paying his own bills, "It's not that simple", and said how you and your xh made an agreement with him that dad would pay for X and you'd pay for Y.  

So yeah, you did imply that the arrangement couldn't be changed when you said "It's not that simple" when someone suggested it.

[Scarlett]

Just now, MissLemon said:

You said a few pages back, when someone suggested your son take on more adult responsibilities and start paying his own bills, "It's not that simple", and said how you and your xh made an agreement with him that dad would pay for X and you'd pay for Y.  

So yeah, you did imply that the arrangement couldn't be changed when you said "It's not that simple" when someone suggested it.

Well, sorry I didn’t mean to imply it couldn’t be changed.  I just meant I don’t want to start changing ds when his dad pays for everything else.  

I don’t think think it will come to that.  

[Wheres Toto]

I don't really have much to add that hasn't already been said.   You say the noise isn't the issue, it's not knowing when he'll be home but that could be solved by a text saying when he'd be home.   The curfew isn't really the point except then you say it is.

Honestly, I get the impression you're ready for him to move out and you want it to be over his "disrespect" for your need to sleep rather than you being ready for him to move out.   If you want him to move out, own it and take steps to help him achieve that.

[Scarlett]

Just now, Where's Toto? said:

I don't really have much to add that hasn't already been said.   You say the noise isn't the issue, it's not knowing when he'll be home but that could be solved by a text saying when he'd be home.   The curfew isn't really the point except then you say it is.

Honestly, I get the impression you're ready for him to move out and you want it to be over his "disrespect" for your need to sleep rather than you being ready for him to move out.   If you want him to move out, own it and take steps to help him achieve that.

To clarify,  no I don’t want him to move out and certainly not in an upheaval.  I want to continue to help him but I also require he respect my need for sleep.  

I would understand if he chooses to move out. 

 

[Catwoman]

6 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

That just sounds like sour grapes.  I don't know if you and Cat have some sort of history that would make you lash out, but you're coming across nasty.  Is that your intention?

 

Thank you. I appreciate that. 

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Um, maybe? Sour grapes no, but it gets old having a person of wealth and privilege tell little old me how to live my poor pathetic life.  

 

I have NEVER said that your life was poor or pathetic. I have NEVER judged you in that way. Maybe that’s how you secretly feel about your life, but I have NEVER judged you based on your financial status.  Why would it matter? Why would I care? You are the one who keeps judging me so negatively, and it’s not only offensive, but it’s also getting ridiculous. It’s like you keep looking for excuses to keep trotting out your same, tired “wealth and privilege” remarks and intimations to try to discount everything I say.

Seriously Scarlett, this thread was about whether a 19yo should have an 11:00 curfew. You are the one who is turning it into judging other people based on their perceived “wealth and privilege.” What’s up with that? I can’t figure out why money would have the slightest thing to do with whether or not the women on this forum would impose a curfew on their adult children. 

 

[elegantlion]

Ds did not and does not have a curfew. He's more the stay up all night and play video games online with friends than go out kind of guy. He will often shower and do laundry at 11 or 12 at night. 

We have scaffolded his launch into adulthood over the years. He's been paying his own cell phone bill for about 8 years, he now pays two additional household bills and buys most of his own food and his own general expenses. Those expenses would change if he were not in college. My biggest rule is don't drive if you've been drinking, call a cab or find a place to crash. Because we live with my mom, she is a light sleeper, but knows he's home or that I'm home if the outside light is off. Sometimes we all end up talking late at night and those are the best conversations. Like some others have said, it's not about me or my mom being the parents, it's the fact we are three adults living together in an semi-equal status. We all rely on each other for something tangible, but it's not just my house or my mom's house, it's his house too. Other practical suggestions, don't drive when super tired, try to avoid the local roads when bars close (to avoid people driving when they shouldn't be), and the other big one. I will come get you if necessary.

My suggestion would be to get rid of the curfew and work on building skills, like texting if you're going to be later than you said. The push on curfew and making it about your inconvenience will not make your son or dss respect you more and be quieter. I had at 11:30 curfew as a 16 year old with very strict parents and I'm your age. I consider my adult son my friend and you may have a different intention with your son, but I enjoy the fact he is enjoying his life. If he has to go up stairs maybe suggest taking off his shoes beforehand. Maybe remark about "hey, you were noisy last night, could you work on that." Then when he/they are NOT noisy compliment them. "Thanks for coming in quietly last night." 

When my son actually moves out I want to miss his presence, not be glad he's gone because he might inconvenience me. 

 

 

 

[Shoeless]

13 minutes ago, Where's Toto? said:

I don't really have much to add that hasn't already been said.   You say the noise isn't the issue, it's not knowing when he'll be home but that could be solved by a text saying when he'd be home.   The curfew isn't really the point except then you say it is.

Honestly, I get the impression you're ready for him to move out and you want it to be over his "disrespect" for your need to sleep rather than you being ready for him to move out.   If you want him to move out, own it and take steps to help him achieve that.

See, I get the impression she doesn't want him to move out at all, but she *does* want him to show more appreciation for the financial support he is receiving, and it's being couched as "respect my need for sleep". 

[Scarlett]

29 minutes ago, elegantlion said:

Ds did not and does not have a curfew. He's more the stay up all night and play video games online with friends than go out kind of guy. He will often shower and do laundry at 11 or 12 at night. 

We have scaffolded his launch into adulthood over the years. He's been paying his own cell phone bill for about 8 years, he now pays two additional household bills and buys most of his own food and his own general expenses. Those expenses would change if he were not in college. My biggest rule is don't drive if you've been drinking, call a cab or find a place to crash. Because we live with my mom, she is a light sleeper, but knows he's home or that I'm home if the outside light is off. Sometimes we all end up talking late at night and those are the best conversations. Like some others have said, it's not about me or my mom being the parents, it's the fact we are three adults living together in an semi-equal status. We all rely on each other for something tangible, but it's not just my house or my mom's house, it's his house too. Other practical suggestions, don't drive when super tired, try to avoid the local roads when bars close (to avoid people driving when they shouldn't be), and the other big one. I will come get you if necessary.

My suggestion would be to get rid of the curfew and work on building skills, like texting if you're going to be later than you said. The push on curfew and making it about your inconvenience will not make your son or dss respect you more and be quieter. I had at 11:30 curfew as a 16 year old with very strict parents and I'm your age. I consider my adult son my friend and you may have a different intention with your son, but I enjoy the fact he is enjoying his life. If he has to go up stairs maybe suggest taking off his shoes beforehand. Maybe remark about "hey, you were noisy last night, could you work on that." Then when he/they are NOT noisy compliment them. "Thanks for coming in quietly last night." 

When my son actually moves out I want to miss his presence, not be glad he's gone because he might inconvenience me. 

 

 

 

Thank you. This was a very thoughtful post filled with real life experience. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Scarlett

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Oh true, 19 in college and not paying any expenses equals not adult.  

wow. So adult, to you, are only people who hold a paying job?

Does the degree to which they should enjoy adult privileges depend on the amount of money they make? Or the hours they work outside the home?

This is just so strange.

[Katy]

6 minutes ago, regentrude said:

wow. So adult, to you, are only people who hold a paying job?

Does the degree to which they should enjoy adult privileges depend on the amount of money they make? Or the hours they work outside the home?

This is just so strange.

 

I'm obviously not Scarlett, but I was raised in a similar way.  The degree to which someone was judged an adult was the degree to which they had taken responsibility for themselves and others.  In the military or a married parent?  Fully adult.  19 year old who lives at home but isn't responsible for own cleaning, laundry, other chores, rent, grocery or other living expenses, paying no bills and doing nothing to take on more responsibility for self or others, even in terms of being considerate?  Child.

 

ETA: In some areas of the country this still seems true.  In others it seems impossible and different standards exist.  It seems like another aspect of the personal bubble to me.

ETA2: In the same areas a 15 or 16 year old who went to school during the day and worked full time evenings and weekends would also be considered an adult.  Age has nothing to do with it, responsibility does.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Katy

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

 

Thank you. I appreciate that. 

 

I have NEVER said that your life was poor or pathetic. I have NEVER judged you in that way. Maybe that’s how you secretly feel about your life, but I have NEVER judged you based on your financial status.  Why would it matter? Why would I care? You are the one who keeps judging me so negatively, and it’s not only offensive, but it’s also getting ridiculous. It’s like you keep looking for excuses to keep trotting out your same, tired “wealth and privilege” remarks and intimations to try to discount everything I say.

Seriously Scarlett, this thread was about whether a 19yo should have an 11:00 curfew. You are the one who is turning it into judging other people based on their perceived “wealth and privilege.” What’s up with that? I can’t figure out why money would have the slightest thing to do with whether or not the women on this forum would impose a curfew on their adult children. 

 

I don’t constantly say things to you.  I do see a lot of things Cat.  You really don’t have any idea of how the other half lives.

I feel like I have a lot better grip on your life than you do mine.

I have a best friend.  For 40 years.  We slept in the same bed, took showers together, skipped school together.  We were maid of honors at each other’s first weddings and I was hers at her second also.  We were together nearly every day for years.  We went through her brutal divorce....then through mine,  we are closer than sisters in some ways.  She remarried when her son was 2 and shortly thereafter due to a very smart business move she and her husband became very very wealthy.   She will always be herself in her heart....but in day to day practicality she is different.  We still have a strong connection but things are different.  .

wealth makes you different.  It is a fact.  I don’t judge you negativitly for that any more than I do my friend.  But I acknowledge it. 

You don’t know how I live. You don’t understand people making kids use their allowance for their own purchases.  You don’t understand making kids pay for wasted hair products poured down the tub.  You don’t understand a mother using a trash bag to pack up her rebellious sons belongings in order to make a point.  

And you don’t see that 19 year old MEN should either grow up and support themselves or else respect the wishes of the house they live in.  I mean when you’re wealthy you just tell your kid he may now take possession of the house you have purchased for him.  Or he may now use his trust fund to go live abroad. Be sure you come back quarterly for business meetings after you finish  your wealth management degree.  

Seriously Cat.  You just don’t know what you don’t know. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Scarlett

[KidsHappen]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Same as mine.  Flexibility like mine.  Her oldest never went by her rules and thus was out of the house at 18.  Even before he was graduated she put all of his stuff in trash bags and took it to his car at school and told him to find another place to live since he didnt like her rules.  

 

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

His friend he is out and about with is 25 and has his own apartment.  When he was 19 he definitely had a curfew.  I just talked to his mom today.  

Out by 18 or curfew at 19?

[Scarlett]

37 minutes ago, regentrude said:

wow. So adult, to you, are only people who hold a paying job?

Does the degree to which they should enjoy adult privileges depend on the amount of money they make? Or the hours they work outside the home?

This is just so strange.

No it doesn’t.  It depends on the degree to which they are striving to support themselves.  

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, KidsHappen said:

 

Out by 18 or curfew at 19?

She has two boys a few years apart. 

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Katy said:

 

I'm obviously not Scarlett, but I was raised in a similar way.  The degree to which someone was judged an adult was the degree to which they had taken responsibility for themselves and others.  In the military or a married parent?  Fully adult.  19 year old who lives at home but isn't responsible for own cleaning, laundry, other chores, rent, grocery or other living expenses, paying no bills and doing nothing to take on more responsibility for self or others, even in terms of being considerate?  Child.

 

ETA: In some areas of the country this still seems true.  In others it seems impossible and different standards exist.  It seems like another aspect of the personal bubble to me.

ETA2: In the same areas a 15 or 16 year old who went to school during the day and worked full time evenings and weekends would also be considered an adult.  Age has nothing to do with it, responsibility does.

Yeah, I was raised like this.  Not so much hard and fast rules but generally that adult privileges were more linked to adult responsibility than a fixed legal age.  I don’t think it hurt.  It gave us the motivation to get our lives sorted so we could have independence and freedom - so many kids our age seem to have stayed living with mum and dad for so long and just not had a focused mindset.

[SKL]

Off the original topic, but I'm going to agree with Scarlett that money does make a difference in how people empathize with others' issues.  I was "poor" and could relate to a lot of what Scarlett said.  I became a lot more comfortable over the years.  And I know it makes things a lot easier and different.  I hear myself making suggestions for solutions that would only work for those with free cash.  A lot of people on the internet have free cash, but I always feel funny about it because I know it can sound ignorant to people who don't.  If I didn't have clear memories of being "poor," I probably wouldn't even realize how many "simple solutions" just don't work if you're living lean.  (And it's not about looking down on anyone, it's just not having that particular tension in one's experience.)

The same is true of people who have never had serious sleep difficulties, trying to advise someone who does.  (I am one of those champion sleepers who can only imagine being "able" to wake up so easily.)

I do have a dad with sleep issues.  I would expect all of his kids, of every age, to be considerate of his sleep schedule.  I'm 52 and I wouldn't bust into my parents' house at all hours.  It's not about being a child, it's about caring for the person who will suffer from the disruption.  Parents put up with everything when kids are young, but eventually they deserve their rest.  And training a kid to understand this will only make him a better housemate for someone else in the future.

Like anything else that might cramp a young adult's style, it's on him to decide to suck it up or leave.  That is the natural course of events anyway.  It's nice that Scarlett is helping him out, and it's not wrong for him to be reminded of that if he acts too entitled.

[DawnM]

I haven't been on the boards as much lately, things are really ramping up at work and with my house and my free time is spent working on keeping the house up or staying after work, or, being sick! 

But I did want to comment on a few things.

I did kind of see various reasons you want him to have a curfew.  It went from concern of his welfare (and not being able to sleep) to concern for your sleep due to noise levels in your house.   I don't know if it is both or ranges depending on the situation, or what, but I think the general response was very few of us have hard curfews for our kids who are over 18 and out of high school, etc....

I wanted to ask, since I am on the house selling and buying thought process right now.....will your next house have been insulated walls?  If you aren't actually selling to these people who are interested, could you put something up in your house?    I have a musical son and so I have been looking into sound proofing foam type things to better noise proof his room.  Maybe a wall of that stuff (or a cheaper alternative) would work for you?  I may be wrong but I am imagining more of a plywood thickness wall between your rooms and that is almost like nothing......sound wise.     

[DawnM]

5 hours ago, Scarlett said:

 

You don’t know how I live. You don’t understand people making kids use their allowance for their own purchases.  You don’t understand making kids pay for wasted hair products poured down the tub.  You don’t understand a mother using a trash bag to pack up her rebellious sons belongings in order to make a point.  

And you don’t see that 19 year old MEN should either grow up and support themselves or else respect the wishes of the house they live in.  I mean when you’re wealthy you just tell your kid he may now take possession of the house you have purchased for him.  Or he may now use his trust fund to go live abroad. Be sure you come back quarterly for business meetings after you finish  your wealth management degree.  

 

Ok, cheap shots at Cat aside (no pun intended.....), if your son really were a man, you wouldn't be having this conversation.  But I think your question has to do with 19 year olds who are almost grown, but not really.

Honestly, my 19 year old is coming home to go to the local 4 year college for next year and I am THRILLED that he wants to live at home and commute.  He just decided last night (although we have been discussing, but he found out officially yesterday that he was accepted and we talked it out).  

My "rules" will be the same for him.  Pick up your crap,  be respectful enough to tell us when you go out and when you might be home, and text if it changes.

I want my kids to live with me forever.  I mean, I fully know that is unrealistic and not healthy, but I miss them so much when they are gone.  Oldest (Asperger's) is more challenging to get along with for ALL of us, but I still miss him when he is away.

[ktgrok]

8 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I don’t constantly say things to you.  I do see a lot of things Cat.  You really don’t have any idea of how the other half lives.

I feel like I have a lot better grip on your life than you do mine.

I have a best friend.  For 40 years.  We slept in the same bed, took showers together, skipped school together.  We were maid of honors at each other’s first weddings and I was hers at her second also.  We were together nearly every day for years.  We went through her brutal divorce....then through mine,  we are closer than sisters in some ways.  She remarried when her son was 2 and shortly thereafter due to a very smart business move she and her husband became very very wealthy.   She will always be herself in her heart....but in day to day practicality she is different.  We still have a strong connection but things are different.  .

wealth makes you different.  It is a fact.  I don’t judge you negativitly for that any more than I do my friend.  But I acknowledge it. 

You don’t know how I live. You don’t understand people making kids use their allowance for their own purchases.  You don’t understand making kids pay for wasted hair products poured down the tub.  You don’t understand a mother using a trash bag to pack up her rebellious sons belongings in order to make a point.  

And you don’t see that 19 year old MEN should either grow up and support themselves or else respect the wishes of the house they live in.  I mean when you’re wealthy you just tell your kid he may now take possession of the house you have purchased for him.  Or he may now use his trust fund to go live abroad. Be sure you come back quarterly for business meetings after you finish  your wealth management degree.  

Seriously Cat.  You just don’t know what you don’t know. 

None of which has to do with if it is reasonable to have a curfew versus asking him to text if he's going to be out past a certain time vs no time constraints. 

Maybe instead of JAWM you should have put, "Only answer if your annual income is less than XYZ". Because you are basically saying you don't want opinions from anyone with a certain amount of wealth.

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, DawnM said:

I haven't been on the boards as much lately, things are really ramping up at work and with my house and my free time is spent working on keeping the house up or staying after work, or, being sick! 

But I did want to comment on a few things.

I did kind of see various reasons you want him to have a curfew.  It went from concern of his welfare (and not being able to sleep) to concern for your sleep due to noise levels in your house.   I don't know if it is both or ranges depending on the situation, or what, but I think the general response was very few of us have hard curfews for our kids who are over 18 and out of high school, etc....

I wanted to ask, since I am on the house selling and buying thought process right now.....will your next house have been insulated walls?  If you aren't actually selling to these people who are interested, could you put something up in your house?    I have a musical son and so I have been looking into sound proofing foam type things to better noise proof his room.  Maybe a wall of that stuff (or a cheaper alternative) would work for you?  I may be wrong but I am imagining more of a plywood thickness wall between your rooms and that is almost like nothing......sound wise.     

Oh for sure next house, especially if we build will have sound proof rooms or walls or whatever.  

Dh says he can fix this house.....but it is just one more thing on our big list. 

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

None of which has to do with if it is reasonable to have a curfew versus asking him to text if he's going to be out past a certain time vs no time constraints. 

Maybe instead of JAWM you should have put, "Only answer if your annual income is less than XYZ". Because you are basically saying you don't want opinions from anyone with a certain amount of wealth.

Not true, there was more to it than that.  

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

if your son really were a man, you wouldn't be having this conversation.  But I think your question has to do with 19 year olds who are almost grown, but not really.

Honestly, my 19 year old is coming home to go to the local 4 year college for next year and I am THRILLED that he wants to live at home and commute.  He just decided last night (although we have been discussing, but he found out officially yesterday that he was accepted and we talked it out).  

My "rules" will be the same for him.  Pick up your crap,  be respectful enough to tell us when you go out and when you might be home, and text if it changes.

I want my kids to live with me forever.  I mean, I fully know that is unrealistic and not healthy, but I miss them so much when they are gone.  Oldest (Asperger's) is more challenging to get along with for ALL of us, but I still miss him when he is away.

Yes to the bolded.  And that is where there is so much disconnect between some in this thread.  Yes he is a legal adult, no he isn’t actually an adult.  

And cool that your son is coming home.  

Edited April 3, 2019 by Scarlett

[DawnM]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Yes to the bolded.  And that is where there is so much disconnect between some in this thread.  Yes he is a legal adult, no he isn’t actually an adult.  

 

Can you address any of the rest of my commenting?  Can you do something to sound proof a bit more?  I thought at one time you had said you were upstairs in a master and the rest of the house was downstairs?  Are you hearing through the floor or are you on the main floor sharing a wall?

[Scarlett]

Just now, DawnM said:

 

Can you address any of the rest of my commenting?  Can you do something to sound proof a bit more?  I thought at one time you had said you were upstairs in a master and the rest of the house was downstairs?  Are you hearing through the floor or are you on the main floor sharing a wall?

We are on the main floor sharing a wall with my 19 year old.  And yes Dh has said he could fix it.....tear the wall out and sound proof it....but it is just one more thing on our long list of things we want to do.  

[unsinkable]

10 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

Wow, Scarlett, what is your problem? 

Why do you have to bring money into every thread when you respond to my posts? 

You seem to have some serious resentment issues toward me.

I was staying on-topic. I feel that I can relate to this topic because we both have 19yo sons that live at home. You seem to want to resort to snide personal remarks. I hope you’ll knock it off because it’s getting really tedious.

And yes, I think it’s terrible that a mother would put her son’s belongings into garbage bags. It’s dehumanizing.

Agreed

What does the household income level have to do with thinking it is OK for putting your son's belongings in garbage bags and dumping them in his car at school?!

That is a personality/relationship/parenting issue, not an income/wealth issue.

I hope that family has healed from whatever led to that incident.

 

[hshibley]

17 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Yes to the bolded.  And that is where there is so much disconnect between some in this thread.  Yes he is a legal adult, no he isn’t actually an adult.  

And cool that your son is coming home.  

I think as a parent you have to remember that regardless of what we think they are an adult period. They can make good or bad choices and it’s all on them. They could up and decide to pack up their belongings and move halfway across the country with no plan and it’s all on them. Etc 

I feel as a parent of young adults that it’s my responsibility to give them the best start possible. For us that’s paying for 4 years of college. If sometime during those 4 years they decide to do something else that’s up to them. We don’t control their choices once they are legally an adult just because we offer to pay tuition room and board.  

[Wheres Toto]

8 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I don’t constantly say things to you.  I do see a lot of things Cat.  You really don’t have any idea of how the other half lives.

I feel like I have a lot better grip on your life than you do mine.

I have a best friend.  For 40 years.  We slept in the same bed, took showers together, skipped school together.  We were maid of honors at each other’s first weddings and I was hers at her second also.  We were together nearly every day for years.  We went through her brutal divorce....then through mine,  we are closer than sisters in some ways.  She remarried when her son was 2 and shortly thereafter due to a very smart business move she and her husband became very very wealthy.   She will always be herself in her heart....but in day to day practicality she is different.  We still have a strong connection but things are different.  .

wealth makes you different.  It is a fact.  I don’t judge you negativitly for that any more than I do my friend.  But I acknowledge it. 

You don’t know how I live. You don’t understand people making kids use their allowance for their own purchases.  You don’t understand making kids pay for wasted hair products poured down the tub.  You don’t understand a mother using a trash bag to pack up her rebellious sons belongings in order to make a point.  

And you don’t see that 19 year old MEN should either grow up and support themselves or else respect the wishes of the house they live in.  I mean when you’re wealthy you just tell your kid he may now take possession of the house you have purchased for him.  Or he may now use his trust fund to go live abroad. Be sure you come back quarterly for business meetings after you finish  your wealth management degree.  

Seriously Cat.  You just don’t know what you don’t know. 

 

So, it's only MEN that need to support themselves?  If your standard is adults support themselves, why is it only for men?  No SAH dads in your world?  That is different than how I choose to live my life so maybe we just have no common ground to start with. 

We are far from wealthy but I guess we lean more toward offering our kids support and grace.  Yes, they use money they earn or receive as gifts for purchases.  Yes if they deliberately waste something they have to replace it, although if it's a true accident we offer grace.  If it's there own item, they won't have it until they can afford to replace it, so natural consequences.

BUT, I disagree with just putting your kids possessions in a trash bag and kicking them out.  Nothing short of illegal activity would make me think that's okay, and depending on the activity, I'd want to offer support and help rather than dismissal.  

I also disagree that a sweeping generalization - if you don't do x, y and z by this age you are a failure and not a REAL adult.  Nope, people have different needs and I don't think those kinds of generalizations help anyone.

Our house is small enough that I can hear my kids talking in their bedrooms from everywhere.  The only entrance we use is right next to my bedroom and walking in the house means walking on a gravel path right outside the (uninsulated so not noise blocking) windows.    It is not possible to show up at my house without everyone knowing you are coming.   Still didn't think it was fair to expect my daughter to have to social life just because she lived at home or we helped support her.