Should I give in?

[Loowit]

My moved to a new house recently.  Before we moved, we told the kids that when we had a new house we could get a puppy and a kitten.  Youngest has wanted a puppy for years and we felt it would be good for him to have the responsibility.  He helped pick out his sweet, gentle Australian Shepherd/Alaskan Malamute mix.  I am not a dog person, but for the most part it is going well.  However, it is more work than I expected, but I am liking having him around more than I expected also.

The dilemma is that now DD wants a kitten that we had said she could have once we moved, but I am just not up to dealing with another new pet.  My health has not been the greatest, and while the kids do help out when I am having bad days, they aren't always reliable or available.  DD is in college this  year, but living at home.  She also works, so I know that I would be the one to take care of the kitten.  Additionally, she is planning to go away to school in the next year or two.

I have been dragging my feet on a decision, but I really want to just say no kitten right now.  It would be bad timing for many different reasons, but then I feel like I am going back on my word and my DD is very upset with me about this.  I am just not sure what to do.  I love cats.  I am a cat person.  If we didn't have a dog, I would go get  a kitten today.  I am just feeling so conflicted.

And here is a picture of the puppy just for fun.

[KidsHappen]

Cats are so much easier. I have two and day to day management involves insuring that their food and water dishes are full. Their liter pans are in the garage and we have a cat door. We don't even scoop daily since it is in the garage. We just dump the pans when necessary and refill with clean liter. We can leave them for up to a week when we go on vacation. They are indoor only cats and rarely get sick. One is 16 years old now and the other is 9. 

On the other hand, I don't think I would be ok with getting a pet I would have to keep for a child that is leaving the home in a year. 

Edited December 2, 2018 by KidsHappen

[73349]

I'd get the cat but have a family plan in place for its care now and in the future.

Cats are much lower-maintenance than dogs (which is why I don't have a dog, even though I like them)--and I think (and I'm sure your DD thinks) these issues were fairly foreseeable when you promised.

[Andromeda]

I am a cat person, and I feel that I need to have a cat in my life at all times, but in this situation I would not get a kitten.

Sure, cats are a lot less work than dogs, but kittens need to be socialized and handled frequently. Someone needs to make sure that the litter box gets cleaned out (my kitties will go on the floor if they think it's too dirty - not emptied for more than 24 hours), and that the cat doesn't eat dog food (and vice versa).

Some cats do just fine by themselves, but others need attention and interaction. One of my kitties was a velcro pet and would cry if she couldn't find me. She was my constant companion from kittenhood until we had to say goodbye over a year ago when she was 12.

Your daughter is an adult, and she needs to understand the implications of getting a cat. This needs to be her cat, and since she is going to be away from home for a log time, she should probably delay getting a kitty until she can take care of it on her own. Otherwise this will be your cat, and no matter how much you love cats, it is probably not the best time to get one.

[regentrude]

If your DD is in college and moving away soon, I would not get a cat because she wants one. Is she in a place in her life that she can she commit to a cat for the next twenty years? I am a cat lover, but this is a long term responsibility.

[Loowit]

Thanks for all the thoughts.  I do appreciate the different perspectives.

We started talking about moving five years ago.  At that time, DD was still in middle school and the boys were elementary age.  It never came to mind that DD would be going off to college by the time we moved and that any pets we got would end up being totally my responsibility within a year or two of getting them.  Also, while I was having some health problems back then, they have gotten worse over time.  By the time we were actually in the process of having our old house on the market I was already talking about pets might not be the best idea after all.

I know that cats are much less work.  I grew up with cats and I had a cat after getting married before kids.  He had a congenital kidney problem and died when DD was 4.  He was sweet and loving, but also required attention, vet visits, and other things.

I feel awful about how this is all playing out.  If I could go back I would change a lot of things that we talked about doing when we moved, but I can't do that.  I have to go forward with what life is like now.

[Lori D.]

I'd just be straight-up honest with DD and have the adult conversation with her since she is an adult:

"DD, much as I want to honor my promise to get both a cat and a dog when we moved into our new house, my health is not well enough to take on the care of a second new pet. However, if you are willing to assume full responsibility for the socializing and care of a kitten (dad and I can help with costs for food and vet visits), and understand that care of the cat also includes figuring out what to do with the cat when you go away to college in a year or two if no one here is able to take on that responsibility, then we can get a cat. But to be clear: because my health is deteriorating, if you become too busy or can't find a place for the the cat when you move out, the only option would be to re-home the cat.

I know this must be very disappointing for you. It is very disappointing to me, too. This is not what my original promise was 5 years ago, but circumstances have changed what I can commit to now, and this is the best compromise that I can come up with that I can follow through with. What are your thoughts, DD?"

Edited December 2, 2018 by Lori D.

[maize]

Maybe look into having your dd volunteer to foster kittens? That is what we did when we were not in a position to adopt a permanent pet. We got to enjoy the kittens but when they were old enough for adoption we returned them to the sponsoring organization.

Would only work if dd was able and willing to take full responsibility and also completely on board with relinquishing the kittens when necessary.

[katilac]

Cats may not be a ton of work but KITTENS are - I cannot tell you how many things our crazy boy knocked over in kittenhood. We had to put away breakables and drink from covered cups, lol. There are more vet visits as well. 

I agree with having an adult conversation with your dd. Before you do, think of all the possibilities and what you are willing to do: 

• Get an older cat instead of a kitten. 
• Wait six months (or however long) and see how the puppy is doing and how your health is. It might seem more manageable then, depending on how old the pup is now and what breed (longer or shorter puppy behaviors). 
• Tell dd it can't be done right now, and you're sorry you made a promise you couldn't keep but it can't be helped now.Tell her exactly what you told us, that it didn't occur to you that dd would be moving out so soon after the new house. 

Bribery might smooth things over. "We can't get the kitten, but here's the $100 we would have spent on the adoption fee and supplies, spend it on whatever you want!"

[katilac]

9 minutes ago, maize said:

Maybe look into having your dd volunteer to foster kittens? <snip>

Would only work if dd was able and willing to take full responsibility and also completely on board with relinquishing the kittens when necessary.

 

15 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

 if you are willing to assume full responsibility for the socializing and care of a kitten  

 

I wouldn't even go down this road, because a college student with a job really cannot take full responsibility. Regardless of how much dd does, mom will still be home with the kitten when she is gone. 

[itsheresomewhere]

May I suggest getting an older cat or fostering a senior cat?  Some lovely rescue groups have cats that are seniors who they don’t adopt out as they have some health issues.  So they look for people willing to allow a senior cat to live with them knowing that the rescues do the health costs.  Usually, you provide the food and all the snuggles the cat wants.  These cats are usually 10+years old here but have plenty of snuggles left.  These rescues don’t want  a cat spending what time they have left in a small room or cage.  They just want the cat to have lots of love and attention.

Edited December 2, 2018 by itsheresomewhere

[solascriptura]

I wouldn't go back on my word.  Cats, if you get a good natured one, aren't very much work at all.  Dog, on the other hand, are a lot of work.  

[Pen]

3 hours ago, Loowit said:

The dilemma is that now DD wants a kitten that we had said she could have once we moved, but I am just not up to dealing with another new pet.  My health has not been the greatest, and while the kids do help out when I am having bad days, they aren't always reliable or available.  DD is in college this  year, but living at home.  She also works, so I know that I would be the one to take care of the kitten.  Additionally, she is planning to go away to school in the next year or two.

 I have been dragging my feet on a decision, but I really want to just say no kitten right now.  It would be bad timing for many different reasons, but then I feel like I am go

 

I am not sure there is any really excellent solution to this. 

I think that you not being up to caring for another animal trumps someone in the family wanting one. 

I don’t know if when you made the promise about puppy and kitten you were assuming you would be the pet caretaker or thought the children would do more than they turned out doing. If you thought the children would do more then that is a change along with your health.  

Possibly there are other solutions you have not thought of, such as the children taking the maximum care they can of the existing dog with great reliability so that you have less of a pet care burden.

And or daughter getting a cat of a breed who tends to do well wearing a harness and who travels well and taking it with herself during the day to school and work and spending her break time with it. 

Or daughter to arrange kitten care with her brother in exchange for something or other. 

In any case, I think you cannot get a cat unless someone else will in fact care for it—and you probably should also be calling a family meeting to request more dog care to be done by the children who wanted a dog. 

The promise is important, but a kitten is a sentient being imo and has needs that will have to be met. If your children can figure out how to care for animals themselves, then I think you can keep your promise. If they cannot care for the pets, then both for your health and the pets’ health you cannot adopt another one. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Pen

[Selkie]

It would be one thing if you had just talked about getting a kitten but not actually promised it - but since you did make a promise, I don't think you should break it.  I think you should figure out a way to make it work. This is apparently very important to your daughter and if you renege on your promise, she is going to be angry and distrustful, especially since you kept your promise to your son but not to her. That could very well have longterm ramifications for your relationship.

[Farrar]

I think you should either get a mild-mannered, already trained cat or tell her that you simply can't deal with a kitten until the dog is out of puppyhood - which is a solid year. Really, it's more than  fair.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Farrar

[solascriptura]

3 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

College kids are old enough to get it, given it's mom's health and energy levels that have changed, as well as the timeline. 

Sometimes we do break our promises, not because we want to, but because circumstances change.

Yes, they do.  However, either discuss it with your dd and see how she really feels about the cat.  Maybe she won't even really want one after all.  Yes, an older kid will understand (maybe). 

I do have a friend and her parent's bought her older sister a used small car when she entered medical school. A few years later, they bought their second daughter (my friend) a new car while we were in college.  Wow, the parents were not ready for the ramifications of that.  True, they could afford more, but there were some seriously hurt feelings and a lot of repair that needed to be done.  Interestingly, these kinds of situations (personal ones too) have made a lot of impact on me.  In every way I have in my control, I plan to support (and give) as equally to my kids as possible.  

[wintermom]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but why is this just your decision and not both parents. Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but when you say "we told the kids..." do you mean your dh and you? How does your dh feel about another pet now? The expense, time for care, damage a pet can cause to the home and personal belongings are all aspects of pet ownership that both adults in the house need to be in agreement with. The desires of the dc are interesting, but not a deciding factor as they do not have full responsibility. If your dh cannot put in the time to care for either a puppy or a kitten, and your health makes this impossible, then no more pets. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by wintermom

[Terabith]

13 minutes ago, solascriptura said:

Yes, they do.  However, either discuss it with your dd and see how she really feels about the cat.  Maybe she won't even really want one after all.  Yes, an older kid will understand (maybe). 

I do have a friend and her parent's bought her older sister a used small car when she entered medical school. A few years later, they bought their second daughter (my friend) a new car while we were in college.  Wow, the parents were not ready for the ramifications of that.  True, they could afford more, but there were some seriously hurt feelings and a lot of repair that needed to be done.  Interestingly, these kinds of situations (personal ones too) have made a lot of impact on me.  In every way I have in my control, I plan to support (and give) as equally to my kids as possible.  

Yeah, this to me sounds like one of those things where your daughter is going to feel like she waited her whole childhood for this promised kitten, and then when the circumstances in which said promised kitten finally happened, you got the promised puppy but broke your promise to her.  I get that it's not fair, because she is going to be leaving soon, and your health has changed and all, but your health needs didn't stop you from getting the puppy.  This is the kind of thing that relationships are broken over, fair or not.  

[Tree Frog]

27 minutes ago, StellaM said:

 

College kids are old enough to get it, given it's mom's health and energy levels that have changed, as well as the timeline. 

Sometimes we do break our promises, not because we want to, but because circumstances change.

My parents divorced. My sister lived with my mom and got a dog. I got a dog. I took care of my dog without help. My mom helped take of care of my sister's dog. Sis went to college out of state. Mom kept dog. I went to college in state and was frequently in my home town, mom wouldn't keep dog, so my dog was rehomed. 

College kids are old enough to understand (though I really didn't. The difference between Mom taking care of my sister's dog and not mine was never explained to me.) I don't harbor ill feelings anymore, but it (along with a couple of other things) did affect my relationship with my mom for a very long time.

I agree with the pp who suggested the cat should be dd's to own and take care of. She needs to think ahead about how she'll take care of the cat while being at college. I think reneging on a promise can be very detrimental to a relationship. (And I'm feeling very strongly about this because of my feelings way back when. That doesn't mean getting a cat is the right or wrong thing for the OP to do. Mom didn't have health issues, but she had divorce issues, which plays into my strong feelings. I think I would've felt better if she had refused for health issues.)

[katilac]

I know I already said this, but I think it bears repeating: with a kitten, it doesn't matter if someone else feeds it and cleans the litter box, she will still have the care of it when dd is gone at work or college. Kittens are NOT cats and are very frequently rather high maintenance. They want to play, they want attention, they knock things down, they bounce off the walls like furry little maniacs. If OP truly can't deal with that right now, then dd needs to wait and see what happens, or consider a grown cat if OP thinks she can deal with that. Of course, they will need to see how pup is with cats as well. 

[katilac]

13 minutes ago, wilrunner said:

 She needs to think ahead about how she'll take care of the cat while being at college. 

 

This is only possible if she doesn't stay on campus, and finds an apartment that allows pets. I think that's impossible to foresee a year or two ahead of time, unless she knows absolutely where she is going (and even then it can change, I don't think many of us would tell our kids not to pick the better college bc they have a cat to take care of). tyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy\

oh, hey, that was one of my cats, lol 

Anyway, that still doesn't solve the fundamental problem: OP doesn't feel up to caring for a kitten NOW. The dog won't be a puppy in one or two years, so the issue is really now as opposed to the future. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by katilac

[J-rap]

It would be one thing if you made that promise years ago, but it sounds like you only made it recently, before the recent move.  So, the fact that she's probably leaving the house soon was something you already knew about when you made the promise.

Cats are simple, barely any work at all.  And you did promise her...

Can you talk to her saying you're certainly willing to keep the promise, but you need to know her long-term plan.  Will she be taking it with her to college?  (That's entirely possible if she's getting an apartment.)  Or, is she expecting you to care for it?  (Also possible -- you might end up enjoying it, and the puppy and kitty might end up being good companions for each other, as ours often were.)  I think it would be good to at least talk about it with her and explore your various options.

If you did get one, I think I'd go with the kitty though and not a grown cat, so that your puppy and kitty grow up being comfortable with each other.  (My first dog as a child was an Australian Shepherd mix, and he LOVED our cat.)  Also, your pup is beautiful!

 

[Lizzie in Ma]

Yup.  Cats are easy.

[Pawz4me]

I guess I'm the odd duck, but I don't find cats to be easier than dogs. Quite the contrary. But my opinion is no doubt affected because I hate dealing with litter and litter boxes and tracked litter so very much. And we have a large, fenced in back yard. It's much easier to let the dog in/out a few times a day than it is for me to deal with heavy litter and constant scooping and regular washing/disinfecting of litter boxes and sweeping/vacuuming. Ugh. An outside or inside/outside cat would certainly be easier than a dog, but there are quite a lot of issues with that to consider, and I assume if she takes the cat with her to college it wouldn't go outside.

I don't know what I'd do in your situation, Loowit. But these are my thoughts about things to consider --

Since you say your DD is in college now, I assume if/when she goes away it will be as a transfer student, which I assume means more likely than not she'll find an apartment rather than be staying in a dorm? If so that makes taking a cat with her easier. Or at least in my area it would--it's a rare apartment around here that doesn't allow pets. Both of our boys' apartments in their university towns allowed pets (as did all the apartments they considered) and many kids have/had them. Or at least they dogs (I see/saw them being walked). More and more universities are allowing pets in dorms, although it's still a very small percentage. But it seems to be a slowly growing trend.

I would talk with your DD about the pet issues that need to be considered--That whatever kitten/cat she gets will have likely have a long life, and that she will need to commit to caring for it its entire life. That means making the effort to find an apartment (and probably a roommate) that is okay with a cat. Lugging home heavy litter is a consideration if she won't have a vehicle (or access to Amazon Prime or some other free shipping). And of course  the cost. Food and littler and vet bills can add up. Re-homing an adult cat is generally not an easy thing. Too many unwanted adult cats are euthanized in shelters every single day.

She also needs to consider safety. While it may not be fair to her that the puppy came first, it's there. And she needs to consider the safety of any kitten/cat brought into the home. An adult cat with claws can generally teach just about any dog to behave around cats. Kittens are more vulnerable. Also, because of having a puppy in the home and because of the future potential lifestyle changes I'd recommend she look for a calm, outgoing cat. Not a skittish, shy one.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Pawz4me

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Maybe:  "I made that promise under circumstances that have unfortunately changed, and under the impression that our move would be much earlier, before you were about to leave for college.  I know this is not fair and not the same, but this is all I can do, considering my health: When you are in a position to fully own the cat- your own apartment, etc- then I will pay your kitten start-up costs.  Adoption fees, crate, food bowls, and litter for 6 months, as well as 6 months of veterinary bills.  That will take you past the most frequent visits during kittenhood.  The advantage is that this cat will be 100% YOURS, and you'll have a companion during your new adventures as an independent adult.  Again, I am so sorry I cannot do this for you now."

[ktgrok]

Cats are easier than puppies, but kittens...it depends. Some are sweet and calm, some are nothing but trouble wrapped up in fur. I love having cats, I HATe having kittens in the house. Ugh. They climb, they shred, they knock EVERYTHING over and break it. IT's like a toddler that can climb the drapes. 

Puppies are also a huge PIA but I tolerate them because well, I am a dog person and puppyhood is the price you pay for a dog that you got to totally control the upbringing of. That's super important to me in a dog. But a cat? Meh, get a cat who is a year or two old. Or at LEAST 6 months old. They mature faster than dogs, so a 6 month old kitten is past the idiotic stage, but still young. Or adopt a momma cat - often shelter or rescues get in pregnant cats and everyone wants to adopt the cute kittens but no one wants to adopt the mother cat. Play on her emotions that way maybe? A adult cat, with claws, who is outgoing (not shy AT ALL - that's genetic and you won't fix it) should be able to handle the puppy and take care of itself other than feeding and litter box, which DD can certainly handle if she's home even a few minutes a day. 

[ktgrok]

Or, agree to TRY fostering an adult (or older kitten, at least 6 months) to see how it works out. 

[BlsdMama]

Um, has anyone mentioned that your puppy might not be the breed you think it is???  It looks awfully GS to me - and we've had four of them. <3 (If so, man, best win ever!)

I am NOT a cat person.  Or at least I didn't think I was for about 39-40 years.

They are so much less effort.  I'd consider it IF a few things were considered:

1. It is likely she will *never* take this cat with her.  This is your cat.  Do you want a cat?  They live about 20 years.  
Why? Because college students don't buy their own homes.  They rent for a while.  And when they do?  Their landlords often don't want cats.  And she'll be starting a new job, potentially dating someone who doesn't like/have/want cats, then the marriage, then the new baby.  It's just not a good time with an adult cat.  She will eventually make the commitment to a new "fun" kitten in her timing, but this cat? It's most likely yours - forever.

2. I wouldn't get it unless the litterbox was her responsibility as long as she lived at home.  Oh, and that one of you will take on the responsibility later - or your DS.

I love my cats, but - keeping in mind we live on a farm too.  We had to rehome our neuro damaged kitty when our grandson ended up allergic.  The rest of the kitties are farm kitties (outdoors.) We do currently have two kittens indoors (and I'd like to keep them that way) but it really spins around the grandbabies moving closer that they aren't spending the night at Grandma's and having allergic reactions, kwim?

[vonfirmath]

41 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

Um, has anyone mentioned that your puppy might not be the breed you think it is???  It looks awfully GS to me - and we've had four of them. ❤️ (If so, man, best win ever!)

I am NOT a cat person.  Or at least I didn't think I was for about 39-40 years.

They are so much less effort.  I'd consider it IF a few things were considered:

1. It is likely she will *never* take this cat with her.  This is your cat.  Do you want a cat?  They live about 20 years.  
Why? Because college students don't buy their own homes.  They rent for a while.  And when they do?  Their landlords often don't want cats.  And she'll be starting a new job, potentially dating someone who doesn't like/have/want cats, then the marriage, then the new baby.  It's just not a good time with an adult cat.  She will eventually make the commitment to a new "fun" kitten in her timing, but this cat? It's most likely yours - forever.

2. I wouldn't get it unless the litterbox was her responsibility as long as she lived at home.  Oh, and that one of you will take on the responsibility later - or your DS.

I love my cats, but - keeping in mind we live on a farm too.  We had to rehome our neuro damaged kitty when our grandson ended up allergic.  The rest of the kitties are farm kitties (outdoors.) We do currently have two kittens indoors (and I'd like to keep them that way) but it really spins around the grandbabies moving closer that they aren't spending the night at Grandma's and having allergic reactions, kwim?

 

My friend did this. THe family was getting a replacement dog (But then decided they needed two so they could play with each other, and the daughter asked them to get one for her too..) so they got a third one for oldest daughter (who sometimes lived at home and sometimes lived with other roommates) But somehow she never was able to take "her" dog with her. So now the family has three dogs.

 

(The dogs are 11 or 12 years old now)

Edited December 3, 2018 by vonfirmath

[Arcadia]

You made the promise to both your kids five years ago. I would set up a kitten fund (joint account or piggy bank) for your daughter instead of getting the kitten now given the state of your health and your daughter possibly leaving for college soon.

I assume you have the financial ability to support owning a kitten but not the time or the energy. So by setting up a fund, there is some financial “equalness” between your kids. When your daughter has the time to take care of a kitten in the future, she would have her kitty fund to use.

When my cousin’s first puppy died at thirteen years old, her sibling got her another puppy. She was working her first job then and had to fly frequently for work so three adults (her mom, aunt and sibling) took turns walking her puppy since she gets home late from work even if she isn’t out of town. It’s a huge time commitment (walks and bath) even though it’s not as big a financial commitment.

[Aura]

If I was the 17 y/o, I'd be upset. I'd think that I'm quite capable of taking care of a cat myself [and I'd be right on that part] and Mom's just looking for an excuse [not true, but I would not have the experience to understand Mom's POV].

As the mom, I couldn't give a promised pet to one child without doing it for the other. BUT, I'd also be expecting the 17 y/o to be doing 90% of the work of a new pet. And I most assuredly would NOT be changing litter boxes for the 17 y/o's cat!

Cats that go outside to do their business are hands down the easiest animals I've ever owned. And that's out of dogs, rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters, fish, and birds. I installed a cat door into a board that was cut to fit inside a window. The cats come and go as they wish. The door can be locked if I really want it to be. Beats cleaning a litter box any day! And I don't have to constantly let the cat in and out (unlike my needy dogs).

At 17, it's completely workable for her to get a cat...but she's got to commit and you've got to insist that she deal with it! My sis is notorious for giving in on animals and then she's the one left taking care of it. Don't let that be you.

If the dd is home now and can give a kitten the attention it needs, then I'd her do it...but again, I'd insist that she do it! She's old enough that she really doesn't need mom to help with this. Cats, IMO, grow up more quickly than dogs, so by the time she's in college, the cat should be grown and fully house trained. However, if she's out for most of the day now, I'd look into an adult rescue cat.

[regentrude]

36 minutes ago, Aura said:

At 17, it's completely workable for her to get a cat...but she's got to commit and you've got to insist that she deal with it!

The DD is supposed to go away to college in a year or two. What then? 

[Aura]

9 minutes ago, regentrude said:

The DD is supposed to go away to college in a year or two. What then? 

On her part, it means that she's committing to taking the cat with her. Getting a pet is a long-term commitment. It's not fair to the cat to get it, bond with it for a year, then get rid of it.  It means she'll most likely have to find an apartment instead of living on campus. So she has to choose between living in campus dorms then or getting a cat now.

On your part, if she fails on her commitment, then that means that you have to be prepared to either adopt it yourself or find a new home for it. 

Cats and dogs generally live much longer than 5-10 years. Even with your ds, the dog should still be around when he goes off to college. What was/is your plan for the kids' pets when the kids are in college?

[BlsdMama]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

The DD is supposed to go away to college in a year or two. What then? 

Precisely.  There are times when life is unfair.  And one of those unfair things is that if you don't have a plan to care for a living thing, then you should plan better, kwim? In this case -not get an animal unless there is someone in a situation who can care for it for the lifespan of the cat AND is willing.  It's not as cut and dried as just being fair.  

And simply finding a home, especially for a cat, and a GOOD home at that, is not simple.  1.4 MILLION cats are euthanized each year in shelters.  I read that the other day.  Isn't that a truly shocking number?  I'm a fan of getting a cat, or five (like we have) but there is a 20 year commitment and (learned the hard way) a VERY serious need to spay ASAP.

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, BlsdMama said:

Precisely.  There are times when life is unfair.  And one of those unfair things is that if you don't have a plan to care for a living thing, then you should plan better, kwim? In this case -not get an animal unless there is someone in a situation who can care for it for the lifespan of the cat AND is willing.  It's not as cut and dried as just being fair.  

And simply finding a home, especially for a cat, and a GOOD home at that, is not simple.  1.4 MILLION cats are euthanized each year in shelters.  I read that the other day.  Isn't that a truly shocking number?  I'm a fan of getting a cat, or five (like we have) but there is a 20 year commitment and (learned the hard way) a VERY serious need to spay ASAP.

I don't think a young woman about to go to college can simply "plan better". I would sit down with her and discuss the situation; she must see that getting a cat at her current stage in life is not a good solution - however "easy" cats may be as pp claim.

I don't know any beginning college student who can predict their living situations for the next 20 years. Taking on responsibility for an animal means limiting college choice,  travel, job prospects, apartment choices, foregoing study abroad opportunities....  Even simple things like coming home over break become difficult when you have an animal to consider.

"Fair" does not make any sense in this context. What would be "fair" for two children living at home becomes a moot point when one is an adult about to move away.

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by regentrude

[wendyroo]

This is water under the bridge, but I would have gotten a kitten before a puppy.  Your daughter, being the oldest, has "seniority".  Since you promised her a kitten, I would have gotten one ASAP so that she could fully enjoy it before moving away from home.  All kitten chores would have been her responsibility for the next year or so, and then you would become the de facto owner when she went to college...which it doesn't sound like you would mind too much since you are a cat person and the cat would be well past the kitten stage.

You could have then looked into getting your youngest a puppy after the cat was mature and settled in the household and DS was a bit older and more capable of being responsible for dog care.

Wendy

[Ausmumof3]

38 minutes ago, StellaM said:

I honestly don't understand the emotion over this. 

If not getting a kitten at college age is the worst thing to happen to dd, she's doing great.

I like the idea of putting the money aside for kitten purchase and maybe first year of costs, for when she is in a position to take care of a kitten. 

I would typically agree but I think it’s the situation where one sibling gets what they were promised and the other doesn’t that has the potential to cause angst. If it was just that no one got the animal it would be just one of those things that happens.  I might be projecting because it seems like in our family it always seems to be dd who misses out and the boys who get what they expected and I’m trying to make sure we balance this out.  I don’t know if it’s because she’s a girl or because she’s a middle child but I’m pretty sure it creates and unhealthy dynamic.

[Ausmumof3]

38 minutes ago, StellaM said:

I honestly don't understand the emotion over this. 

If not getting a kitten at college age is the worst thing to happen to dd, she's doing great.

I like the idea of putting the money aside for kitten purchase and maybe first year of costs, for when she is in a position to take care of a kitten. 

I would typically agree but I think it’s the situation where one sibling gets what they were promised and the other doesn’t that has the potential to cause angst. If it was just that no one got the animal it would be just one of those things that happens.  I might be projecting because it seems like in our family it always seems to be dd who misses out and the boys who get what they expected and I’m trying to make sure we balance this out.  I don’t know if it’s because she’s a girl or because she’s a middle child but I’m pretty sure it creates and unhealthy dynamic.

[Pen]

Another thought ... as a cat person, if kitten could be gotten to mature cat more easy to manage it stage with your kids taking responsibility for all pet care now except for taking pets to vet (and helping with that though not responsible for it), would you mind being left with an adult cat after your daughter went to Away living situation?

Significant part of problem here seems to be kids’ lack of responsibility and caring for puppy. At 12 and or 15 they should be capable of food water exercise clean up training (with help learning how to train) the puppy. 

If the kids showed initiative in taking care of puppy you likely would not be negative about a kitten. 

[Valley Girl]

9 hours ago, Monica_in_Switzerland said:

Maybe:  "I made that promise under circumstances that have unfortunately changed, and under the impression that our move would be much earlier, before you were about to leave for college.  I know this is not fair and not the same, but this is all I can do, considering my health: When you are in a position to fully own the cat- your own apartment, etc- then I will pay your kitten start-up costs.  Adoption fees, crate, food bowls, and litter for 6 months, as well as 6 months of veterinary bills.  That will take you past the most frequent visits during kittenhood.  The advantage is that this cat will be 100% YOURS, and you'll have a companion during your new adventures as an independent adult.  Again, I am so sorry I cannot do this for you now."

 

Life is not "fair." Circumstances change. That 5-year-old promise was made, well, 5 years ago when you thought you would be moving sooner. It didn't work out that way. Younger child will have years at home to take care of the dog. DD will be leaving the nest to begin her own life. It's not the right time in her life either to make a decades-long commitment to a pet she won't be there to care for.

Monica's suggestion above, I think, is a great one. I'd research and get a breakdown of just how much that's likely to cost. Then, just to make sure DD doesn't worry that the money won't be there to fulfill that promise when the time comes, I'd tell her I'm starting now to set aside $XX a month in an envelope or bank account toward that goal. Will she be disappointed? Probably. But if she has a good head on her shoulders, I would think she'll see the sense in what you're saying.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Valley Girl
'cause I can't spell today

[Loowit]

To answer a few questions, sorry not good at quoting.

We are sure of his breed.  We met his parents when we picked him up.  We know that there is a tiny bit of wolf and lab mixed in but on the whole he is a mix of Australian Shepherd and Alaskan Malamute.  We got him from a former breeder who was re-homing puppies after an unexpected litter.  Puppy is definitely a working breed dog and needs a lot of activiy to keep him busy.  DH takes him for jogs most mornings if he can which helps, and DS takes him for one or two walks a day, plus we have a good size backyard. It is a lot more work than DH led me to believe.  DH grew up with dogs, but it dawned on me after we got ours that DH was the kid and his parents did most of the dog care, so DH wasn't realistic in his expectations.

DH is of the opinion that we told them they could have the pets, so we should honor that.  However, while DH does what he can, he is not the one home all day taking care of said pets.  He works long hours and goes out of town on business at times.  I am the one who has most of the work taking care of things at home.

I had a talk with both DH and DD last night about all of this.  DH is starting to see how I am feeling about it, DD does to a small extent, but thinks she should still be able to get a kitten.  She cannot take a cat with her to college.  The program she is hoping to get into is very intense and with work as well she just wouldn't have time for a pet.  She will likely be living in school housing, which doesn't allow pets.

I could sit down with DD and lay out expectations of responsibility.  But she would promise to do everything I asked, but when it came down to it, it would not get done and I or the boys would end up doing it.  Middle child didn't want any pets to begin with, and youngest already has a lot of responsibility with the puppy, so I don't want to ask him to take on more.  So then it would fall on me to do the work.  And no matter how "easy" it is to take care of a cat, I just don't have it in me right now if I am being realistic.

Getting an adult cat is not really an option, mainly because DD is adamant that it has to be a kitten.

I did suggest that DD volunteer at a local animal shelter that is always looking for people to spend time petting and playing with the kittens/cats, but she didn't like that option.

I like the idea of saving money for her so she can have it when she is finally out on her own and able to get her own cat.  I will talk to DH about that option.

I get what people are saying about how we go one child the promised pet and not the other, and that is part of why this is so frustrating to me.  I do not want to go back on my word, but I also need to be realistic about life and what is in the here and now not five years ago when we started talking about this.  I can get a cat, keeping the promise even though I don't have the energy and time for it, or renege and hope DD doesn't resent it the rest of her life.

[freesia]

Any hope middle kid would help with the cat chores? The deal with our cat was that I don't do any of the chores ( even cleaning up vomit.) and I pretty much haven't. I've never cleaned up vomit, only scoop if the kids are all out of town and rarely feed her. We've had her 8 years. I call a kid if anything needs doing. So, if middle kid got on board with the kitten, it might help. 

[Loowit]

Middle kid will not help, well he would if needed as he is a good kid to help when I need him, but he has made it very clear he doesn't want pets because they are a lot of work.

[Terabith]

The reality is also that with that kind of dog, probably the only safe time to get a household cat is while the dog is a puppy.  If you try to bring either a kitten or an adult cat into the household with a dog of that combination of breeds when that dog is no longer a puppy and able to easily be socialized to be friendly with cats, the dog is likely to kill the cat.  Claws aren't sufficient protection against a dog with a high prey drive.  So it's really a NOW or never thing.  It is one thing if they grow up together.  Waiting for one animal to grow up before getting another is a terrible idea, from a socialization standpoint.  

[Terabith]

Honestly, it sounds like you've made up your mind, for perfectly understandable reasons.  You don't have the time and energy to do it, and your daughter cannot commit to doing it because of her circumstances.  I think it was thoughtless to get the puppy for your son before you got the kitten for your daughter; in my mind, if you could only do one at a time, I would have gotten the kitten first, both so she would have had maximum time before she leaves home and also because for safety's sake, it's better to bring a puppy into a house with an adult cat than vice versa.  Or I would have waited until she was launched before getting the puppy.  But what's done is done.  What concerns me is that you seem annoyed at your daughter for being hurt and angry about the decision to deny her the promised kitten, and I think that's unfair.  I understand the reality that you cannot do it.  But I think you need to make peace with the fact that it's going to be a very deep hurt for her.  She's going to feel betrayed and angry, and I think she has a right to.  She's going to feel like you favored her brother.  It can't be helped and it sucks, but it's reality, both in terms of your time and energy and in terms of her pain.  

I think she'll probably get over it.  But it may take a really long time.  Like, I think you need to prepare yourself that this may be one of those 20 year hurt things and that your relationship may never be entirely the same.  She is already at a point where she has to sort of "break up" with you emotionally to prepare to leave home.  I suspect this will be the issue that she fixates on.  And you're going to feel hurt and betrayed by her hurt and betrayal.  It's just human nature.  Just be ready for it.  

[Pen]

What are you having to do in terms of dog chores?

[Loowit]

In terms of dog chores I take him for walks on days I am up to it, feed him when others are busy (not a big deal), keep him occupied in the morning for a couple hours before kids get up which often involves taking him outside and playing.  That is all I can think of.  I also have to make sure he isn't chewing on things he isn't supposed to and keep an eye on him when the boys are doing schoolwork.  Puppy is in a stage that he is chewing on everything.  We have gotten him several toys that the vet recommended and that is helping but not completely.  I am also the one who takes him to his vet visits, which was every two weeks to get all his shots, now he doesn't have another until Feb when he is getting "the surgery".  But they told me to bring him in monthly for weighing so they can give him the flea and tick medicine in the right dose for his size.

[Catwoman]

58 minutes ago, Loowit said:

In terms of dog chores I take him for walks on days I am up to it, feed him when others are busy (not a big deal), keep him occupied in the morning for a couple hours before kids get up which often involves taking him outside and playing.  That is all I can think of.  I also have to make sure he isn't chewing on things he isn't supposed to and keep an eye on him when the boys are doing schoolwork.  Puppy is in a stage that he is chewing on everything.  We have gotten him several toys that the vet recommended and that is helping but not completely.  I am also the one who takes him to his vet visits, which was every two weeks to get all his shots, now he doesn't have another until Feb when he is getting "the surgery".  But they told me to bring him in monthly for weighing so they can give him the flea and tick medicine in the right dose for his size.

 

Your dd sees you doing all of these things for the puppy, so I can understand why she is resentful that you won’t let her get the kitten you have been promising her. A kitten won’t require anywhere near that level of attention every day. 

I wish I could take your side on this, but you kept your promise to your son despite the puppy needing a lot of your time and attention, so I think you should keep your promise to your dd as well. If you’d told both kids that they couldn’t have the pets you’d promised them, I would feel sorry for the kids, but at least I would think it was fair. As it is, your dd is probably seeing this as a case of extreme favoritism toward her brother, and because you spend so much time looking after the puppy, I can understand why your dd would be so upset about this, and why she would think it was so unfair.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Loowit said:

In terms of dog chores I take him for walks on days I am up to it, feed him when others are busy (not a big deal), keep him occupied in the morning for a couple hours before kids get up which often involves taking him outside and playing.  That is all I can think of.  I also have to make sure he isn't chewing on things he isn't supposed to and keep an eye on him when the boys are doing schoolwork.  Puppy is in a stage that he is chewing on everything.  We have gotten him several toys that the vet recommended and that is helping but not completely.  I am also the one who takes him to his vet visits, which was every two weeks to get all his shots, now he doesn't have another until Feb when he is getting "the surgery".  But they told me to bring him in monthly for weighing so they can give him the flea and tick medicine in the right dose for his size.

 

Of these, it seems to me that some adult does need to go to vet. Probably you if your husband cannot.  And possibly the walks when you are up to it are as good for you and your well being as for the puppy. 

And I can understand a short time each morning before kids get up when you get puppy outside to relieve himself.  But maybe 20 minutes not 2 hours.  Or maybe a 20 minute brisk walk with puppy potty stop along the way  .  

 

The rest of what you describe doesnt make sense to me. 

We did our dog’s puppyhood with him using a crate as needed when no one could actively monitor him, and arranged homeschooling to fit puppy needs. 

School x minutes while puppy is in crate.  Then ds took puppy for outside potty break. Then inside puppy play time. Then puppy in crate and another homeschooling session.  Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.  ...    As puppy got older short play times turned into long adventures outside— but by then puppy was housetrained and could have long naps out of crate during schoolwork  

I feed our dog and don’t mind because I am a “dog person “ and the dog is really mostly mine since ds has gone to public high school. 

But if dog were seriously supposed to be primarily a child’s I would insist that the child feed the dog for all meals unless sick in bed, in hospital or similarly extreme situation made it impossible. 

[Pen]

Adding, your 12 could,  imo, do reading, writing, math and puppy care this year. 

And maybe kitty care for his sister when she cannot do it.

Call it science, psychology, soft skills, life skills. It is probably as valuable to step up and care more completely for the puppy than to have history. And if he has the full job of keeping puppy exercised and well pooped out, it is probably PE also.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Pen