Oh man, what have I agreed to? (Update in #218)

[Haiku]

I read through this again and thought about it more. I do not think you are doing your son any favors by driving him all over the place. Basically, he has come up with an unworkable schedule that puts no one out but you.

 

I would not do that. If I started doing it and found it was too much for me, I would have no problem saying, "Sorry, Son, I thought I could do it, but it's actually too stressful for me. You'll need to modify your schedule or find alternate transportation."

 

I have a child who did everything she could to shift the burden to me. I bought into it for too long. Then I decided not to anymore.

[Selkie]

Nope, I couldn't handle this.  Maybe for a few nights, but six weeks?  No way.  I would be an exhausted mess and in no shape to be driving, especially that late at night.

[OneStepAtATime]

Think of this as a really great learning opportunity for your son.  Encourage him to find ways to make this work without relying almost entirely on you.

 

FWIW, I have a friend whose early teen daughter wanted very badly to take a specialized kind of dance lessons.  They could not afford them at the place she wanted to go and the schedule would not work out for the parents to get her there consistently.  Dad did not crush her dream, however.  He was honest and upfront.  He told her when he would be able to drive, when Mom could drive and how much they could afford to put into the lessons.  He encouraged her not to give up.  Then he left it up to her.  She did the research, she networked, and she found that there was a cheaper place with a better schedule.  She also found another person wanting to take those same lessons that was in a similar situation.  She worked out a carpooling schedule with both sets of parents and a bus schedule to take up the slack and took lessons that way for over 2 years.  Now as an older teen she shared that having to do that made her realize how much her parents had been doing for her already.  It also helped her to feel a lot more independent.  And that process helped her to find a way to then get to go to Japan for a special educational exchange program that she went on this summer.   Mom and Dad told her what they were able to do within reason and she had to make it work from her end.  She did.  And had a fantastic time.

[Hyacinth]

I can see both sides here.

It's "only" six weeks and I could do it if I had to.

 

AND

 

No way. No how. This is not doing anyone any real long-term favors and the cost to my sanity is too high.

 

What might sway me either way is the son's attitude. Is he expecting this level of help just because? Is he actively searching for alternatives? Is he appreciative? Does he get what a sacrifice this is for you?

[madteaparty]

Back in to add that realizing I'm an outlier all over the place here, I did not get my license until my mid 30s and I would drive my DS day and night to delay him driving a car on his own. This rush to have 16 year olds with developing brains who can't vote, but have a right (!!) to drive a car, which is essentially a weapon, baffles me.
 

Edited September 7, 2016 by madteaparty

[AMJ]

Back in to add that realizing I'm an outlier all over the place here, I did not get my license until my mid 30s and I would drive my DS day and night to delay him driving a car on his own. This rush to have 16 year olds with developing brains who can't vote, but have a right (!!) to drive a car, which is essentially a weapon, baffles me.

DH drove me to law school for three years and also to the train to commute to NYC...maybe it's an immigrant thing. Though DH is not an immigrant.

 

 

I don't think the bulk of the responses here are pushing for the son to get his driver's license and drive himself.  There is, however, a lot of support for the idea that the son is mature enough to be working out his own transportation arrangements without defaulting to just letting Mom take care of it.

[OneStepAtATime]

I don't think the bulk of the responses here are pushing for the son to get his driver's license and drive himself.  There is, however, a lot of support for the idea that the son is mature enough to be working out his own transportation arrangements without defaulting to just letting Mom take care of it.

Agreed.  I haven't really seen a push for the son to get his license and drive himself at all.  

[madteaparty]

I don't think the bulk of the responses here are pushing for the son to get his driver's license and drive himself. There is, however, a lot of support for the idea that the son is mature enough to be working out his own transportation arrangements without defaulting to just letting Mom take care of it.

This is true. I was referring to the sentiment in general w/r/t to teen driving, not this post. Sorry.

[wendy not in HI]

You are amazing!  It sounds crazy, but I believe in you!  You can do anything for 6 weeks! The thing about driving, though, is I tend to gain weight when I am doing a lot of driving and sitting in the car.  If I were you, I would have an emergency pack of healthy snacks and a full water bottle.  I would take advantage of wait time to get out and walk and stretch.  Have a meal plan to avoid the drive through, and order salads when you do drive through...

 

Think of all the great time you and your son will have together!  There's nothing like being stuck in a car that really brings out fun discussions!  Get some books on tape you want to listen to or download some podcasts.

 

Think of it as an adventure, and don't look too far ahead.  When things get crazy around here, I do best if I just plan for today - if I look at tomorrow and the next day and saturday I start to stress out, but I can do today!

[JumpyTheFrog]

This rush to have 16 year olds with developing brains who can't vote, but have a right (!!) to drive a car, which is essentially a weapon, baffles me.

I believe the son in question is 19, not 16, though maybe you meant your comment to be more about teens in general.

[Critterfixer]

You are out of your mind if you expect to be able to keep up with everything else on that schedule. As long as you clean no house,  cook no food, wash no dishes or clothes, do no projects, take on no extra work, and sleep every time you get the chance, you'll probably be fine. 

The problem with part time intensity is that folks expect to be able to do everything they did, and the extra work, and that just kills you. Everything else will just have to slide if you have to take on a job as a taxi for the next six weeks. 

You probably ought to sit down and have a frank discussion about how folks are going to have to feed themselves and keep up with dishes, clothes, floors and so forth.

[Seasider]

I don't think the bulk of the responses here are pushing for the son to get his driver's license and drive himself. There is, however, a lot of support for the idea that the son is mature enough to be working out his own transportation arrangements without defaulting to just letting Mom take care of it.

Or maybe trading tasks such as doing his own laundry, cooking, etc.

[Seasider]

You are out of your mind if you expect to be able to keep up with everything else on that schedule. As long as you clean no house, cook no food, wash no dishes or clothes, do no projects, take on no extra work, and sleep every time you get the chance, you'll probably be fine.

The problem with part time intensity is that folks expect to be able to do everything they did, and the extra work, and that just kills you. Everything else will just have to slide if you have to take on a job as a taxi for the next six weeks.

You probably ought to sit down and have a frank discussion about how folks are going to have to feed themselves and keep up with dishes, clothes, floors and so forth.

Quoting to highlight that if you do this for 6 weeks, you will likely also need to tag on a few weeks of "recovery." When we have short term intense schedules for a sports of theater season, I can keep most of the plates spinning, but then sort of crash myself when it's over.

[Critterfixer]

 

Quoting to highlight that if you do this for 6 weeks, you will likely also need to tag on a few weeks of "recovery." When we have short term intense schedules for a sports of theater season, I can keep most of the plates spinning, but then sort of crash myself when it's over. 

 

 

Yep. And at least for me, the recovery time is longer now that I'm older. I could do a three day stint of work and travel at 35. Now that I'm 40, I need an afternoon nap on the day after two days of work and travel. I'm not quite as resilient as I used to be.

[EmilyGF]

Frankly, I'd get sick if I pulled that sort of schedule for six weeks. I could do it for two, but then I'd start getting congested. Be careful to watch your diet/caffeine intake to keep yourself as healthy as possible. 

 

Emily, who really ought to heed this advice

[JumpyTheFrog]

I'll be very blunt. If you are determined to go through with what appears to me is letting your son use you, at least have him take over his own laundry. Better yet, turn over massive amounts of cooking and housework to him while you use the that time to nap. Or he can bring you umbrella drinks.

Edited September 6, 2016 by HoppyTheToad

[Haiku]

Agreed.  I haven't really seen a push for the son to get his license and drive himself at all.  

 

My dd didn't get her license until she was twenty. She's this close to having it suspended for having too many points on her license. I certainly don't advocate the son in question in this thread just run out and get a license.

[catz]

I believe the son in question is 19, not 16, though maybe you meant your comment to be more about teens in general.

 

I thought about this reading this comment too.  I feel like there should be a pretty big difference between a minor in high school and an adult in college.  I fully intend on helping my kids with college, but they're going to need to earn some money and do some leg work.  If helping my kid through college was in the way of me paying bills month to month, then we'd look at my kid taking out student loans.

 

My 15 year old just got his permit.  But I'm perfectly fine with him not getting a license until age 18+.  There's no change to insurance for a teen with a permit. That's plenty of time to work on the skills with DH and I totally in charge.  Unfortunately, in the US it's pretty life limiting not to have a license and access to a car except for in a handful of metros that have well funded public transit.  ETA - this is not in reference or criticism of the OP or her situation.  I'm sure she has good reasons for her choice. 

 

Edited September 6, 2016 by WoolySocks

[Bluegoat]

I thought about this reading this comment too.  I feel like there should be a pretty big difference between a minor in high school and an adult in college.  I fully intend on helping my kids with college, but they're going to need to earn some money and do some leg work.  If helping my kid through college was in the way of me paying bills month to month, then we'd look at my kid taking out student loans.

 

My 15 year old just got his permit.  But I'm perfectly fine with him not getting a license until age 18+.  There's no change to insurance for a teen with a permit. That's plenty of time to work on the skills with DH and I totally in charge.  Unfortunately, in the US it's pretty life limiting not to have a license and access to a car except for in a handful of metros that have well funded public transit.  ETA - this is not in reference or criticism of the OP or her situation.  I'm sure she has good reasons for her choice. 

 

 

I think what this comes to is that even when there are ery good reasons for the person not to drive, as an adult getting around is going to start tobe really a neccessary part of independance.  Some kind of independant mobility for the disabled is a really big issue with accesibility discussions around here, and I think that is really what it comes down to.

 

But it's a bit of a transition for teens and young adults to start thinking that way, and it probably comes later to those who live in places where they can't take charge of their own transport in other ways.

[happi duck]

I thought about this reading this comment too. I feel like there should be a pretty big difference between a minor in high school and an adult in college. I fully intend on helping my kids with college, but they're going to need to earn some money and do some leg work. If helping my kid through college was in the way of me paying bills month to month, then we'd look at my kid taking out student loans.

 

My 15 year old just got his permit. But I'm perfectly fine with him not getting a license until age 18+. There's no change to insurance for a teen with a permit. That's plenty of time to work on the skills with DH and I totally in charge. Unfortunately, in the US it's pretty life limiting not to have a license and access to a car except for in a handful of metros that have well funded public transit. ETA - this is not in reference or criticism of the OP or her situation. I'm sure she has good reasons for her choice.

 

Ot, in our state a permit expires so once you get a permit you need to license in a certain amount of time or start over. I almost missed that info!

[Janeway]

Yes, you are out of your mind.

 

I would have him look for someone to carpool with.

[Janeway]

And if that doesn't work, hire a driver. He should pay for transportation out of his own earnings.

[happi duck]

Op, I'd be doing the same thing in your shoes!

 

Hang in there mama!

 

That said, at that age I could function on no sleep and thought everyone could.

 

I wish I could've apologized to my mom but she died while I was in my twenties.

 

Your ds might not realize the exhaustion factor.

[trulycrabby]

Change your mind on this agreement for your own health and sanity!!!! :grouphug:

[catz]

Ot, in our state a permit expires so once you get a permit you need to license in a certain amount of time or start over. I almost missed that info!

 

I'm pretty sure ours is 2 years.  And 18 year olds+ have less stringent requirements so in theory could just go in and take the written test again to get a new permit.  A minor holding a permit must have it for at least 6 months before taking the driving test, and must have 40-50 hours of logged practice, plus 6 hours paid professional behind the wheel.  That gets you a provisional license which has many restrictions too. 

 

I'm not anxious for my kid to get his license.  I just wanted to be in a position to direct the driving practice and help build good driving habits.    I do not plan on carting him to college or a job after age 18 though.  I do live in an ok transit area, though like other people said, traveling via transit can take time. 

 

[fairfarmhand]

If he's not paying his college expenses, paying for insurance, or paying rent, does he have a goal for the money that he's earning at these jobs?

 

Because it's not really fair for him to expect you to do all this running around and paying all the expenses for nothing.

 

I think he should pay you hire a driver or figure out some other arrangement.

[ktgrok]

Off topic and no help to OP, but can someone please tell me what uber is? I have no idea (clearly they are not in my area)

 

It's a cab type service, where people contract to be drivers. Cheaper than a cab usually, and easier to use. Faster too. In the Orlando area I can usually have one at my house within 15 minutes of asking for one (using the app on my phone or the website). Payment is via paypal, so you don't need cash, etc. Very nice, cars are usually nice and clean, etc. 

[ktgrok]

Another thought..why did he move back home? I got the impression, and maybe I'm wrong, that he got overwhelmed at the university he was at? If so, is this crazy schedule setting him up to get overwhelmed again? It's not just can you do this schedule, but can he?

 

And yes, he should be paying for Uber or another form of transport for a lot of this. it's just not fair for him to be making money off of your sacrifice. And my kids do their own laundry by high school at the latest. 

[Critterfixer]

 

Your ds might not realize the exhaustion factor. 

 

 

I guarantee he doesn't get the exhaustion factor. How could he at his age? If anyone had told me at twenty that by the time I hit forty I WANT to be in bed by nine, and would actually NEED a nap some afternoons, I'd have laughed. Rolled on the floor laughed.

[heartlikealion]

I know face-to-face is not the same as facetime and Skype, but I think they can settle for that if driving to/from the gf's house is an added burden. Plus, it sounds like they are already seeing each other on campus. I'm still trying to figure out why he agreed to a job with those kinds of hours if he knew he didn't have a car. I really do believe he's a bit oblivious to the burden it presents to the rest of the family.

[OneStepAtATime]

My dd didn't get her license until she was twenty. She's this close to having it suspended for having too many points on her license. I certainly don't advocate the son in question in this thread just run out and get a license.

Yeah, I understand the perspective completely.  I didn't get my license until I was 19.  I was not ready before that.  DD is very nervous about driving.  I am definitely not pushing her to do so.  

[shawthorne44]

Yeah, I can see both sides, too.   

 

Although, one thing I would insist on is that he does everything he can to not make it harder for me.   For example, it wouldn't be 50% of the time he takes a bus to the library and 50% hang out with girlfriend.   It would be 100% taking a bus to the library.   If he wants to hang out with the girlfriend, he can figure out a way to either get himself home, or to the next place he needs to be.  

 

I am reminded of the 4 months when I was 16 that my parents drove me across the city to the ballpark and then picked me up at the end.   Dad didn't mind because he was the one that got me and he watched the last two or three innings of EVERY home game for free.   Mom, though, just dropped me off and then went home.  

Edited September 6, 2016 by shawthorne44

[Jenny in Florida]

Any reason why the night pick ups can't be shared with your husband ?

 

Uber home one or two nights a week ?

 

I

 

My husband has a bad back and a recently diagnosed anxiety issue, both of which are aggravated by driving. The division of labor around here has long been established, and doing the lion's share of the driving-kids-around stuff is on my side of the line.

 

He has offered to take the Saturday morning shift, if I need/want him to do so, but I really don't want to sentence him to hanging around on campus for three hours so he can drive our son back home. That would mean I would still have to make the drive to campus, and it makes more sense for one person to do it, find a way to use the time and save the extra round trip. 

 

My son could make more use of Uber, but one of the reasons we're in this situation is that we are encouraging him to sock away money towards his after-graduation nest egg. It costs all of use less for me to do the round trip than for him to pay someone else to do it.

[Jenny in Florida]

What was he thinking how he would get to work when he took this job? Expecting you to drive him???

 

We discussed it. I agreed to make it work. 

 

The whole family is pretty much accustomed to me being the chauffeur for kids/teens. It was a major part of my "job description" before I went back to work. I think it's just that none of us have quite adjusted to the new normal now that I am both older (and dealiing with some health stuff) and working outside the house. I've always been able to manage, and so we all think I can continue to do so.

 

It's just that, now that it's actually here, it seems like a much bigger deal than when we first talked it through a couple of months ago.

[shawthorne44]

Yeah, I can totally see how you agreed to all you agreed to.  

[Seasider]

We discussed it. I agreed to make it work.

 

The whole family is pretty much accustomed to me being the chauffeur for kids/teens. It was a major part of my "job description" before I went back to work. I think it's just that none of us have quite adjusted to the new normal now that I am both older (and dealiing with some health stuff) and working outside the house. I've always been able to manage, and so we all think I can continue to do so.

 

It's just that, now that it's actually here, it seems like a much bigger deal than when we first talked it through a couple of months ago.

Gently, Jenny, perhaps it's time to say that part of your new normal is no longer being chauffeur to those who should be capable of making other arrangements.

[Jenny in Florida]

Also, thinking more,I'm sure an Uber from the theme park would be expensive, but what if he took an Uber to and from campus, at least some of the time? Must less expensive I bet, and would take some of the burden off of you. 

 

It would cost $22-29 each way from our house to campus.

[Guest]

Gently, Jenny, perhaps it's time to say that part of your new normal is no longer being chauffeur to those who should be capable of making other arrangements.

Especially with an adult - at 19, without massive executive function issues, he should be able to figure out something that won't make you sick. It really looks like you had the best of intentions but that's just too much. I'm a huge fan of college students working but they need to be able to make their own way to and from there, even living at home. If you weren't working it would be different but that's more plates spinning than even a younger, perfectly healthy woman would be able to easily manage.

[Guest]

It would cost $22-29 each way from our house to campus.

That's not bad! I'd jump at it - you could even have mercy and subsidize one of the legs of it each day so he could keep more paycheck.

[Haiku]

My son could make more use of Uber, but one of the reasons we're in this situation is that we are encouraging him to sock away money towards his after-graduation nest egg. It costs all of use less for me to do the round trip than for him to pay someone else to do it.

 

Well, it costs less money, that's for sure. But monetary cost is not the only cost to consider.

 

It's great if your son can save money for his after-graduation nest egg. He needs to find a sustainable way to do that and not depend on you to over-extend yourself so he can do whatever he wants. It sounds like your son is taking you for granted. I frown on that.

 

If you're just going to knuckle down and do this, then I wish you good luck and hope you get through it ok.

 

If you decide to reconsider the deal, then you have my full support (for what it's worth).

[MysteryJen]

As the main driver here, I would be in your shoes and be telling myself, it is only temporary. Great theater gigs are not the easiest to come by and I would do what I could to make it work. That said, I would do the campus/ job driving and he would be responsible for everything else. Gf/library/social. That is what Uber is for. 

 

It is what I do here. I will move heaven and earth to get kids to practices/meets/tournaments. I will not stir for friend outings. They are all old enough to bike, walk, bus, or find something else to do.

 

Everything costs in money or time. Make sure you are not bearing the whole cost.

[fairfarmhand]

We discussed it. I agreed to make it work. 

 

The whole family is pretty much accustomed to me being the chauffeur for kids/teens. It was a major part of my "job description" before I went back to work. I think it's just that none of us have quite adjusted to the new normal now that I am both older (and dealiing with some health stuff) and working outside the house. I've always been able to manage, and so we all think I can continue to do so.

 

It's just that, now that it's actually here, it seems like a much bigger deal than when we first talked it through a couple of months ago.

 

It IS A bigger deal than what everyone thought it would be. When you actually start thinking about your lack of sleep and the fact that this is an ADULT CHILD it changes things.

\

And as an adult it is perfectly fine to say to your son "I originally thought that this would be okay, but I am having HUGE second thoughts about this. I'm willing to try it for 2 weeks, but if I am not doing okay, YOU as an adult need to figure out another plan."

 

And I agree that he needs to make this as easy on your as possible, meaning that if he wants girlfriend time, he'll have to make it work.

 

[Acadie]

It doesn't have to be either/or. What if you do the driving to campus, but have him Uber home from work in the wee hours? Or pick whichever drives in the week will most lighten your load or increase your sleep, and outsource those. 

 

You can compromise between both goals--his savings, and your sanity and wellbeing. And since it's only for six weeks, spending a few hundred dollars on transport is not going to make a big difference long term.

 

Amy 

 

 

[zoobie]

As the main driver here, I would be in your shoes and be telling myself, it is only temporary. Great theater gigs are not the easiest to come by and I would do what I could to make it work. That said, I would do the campus/ job driving and he would be responsible for everything else. Gf/library/social. That is what Uber is for. 

 

It is what I do here. I will move heaven and earth to get kids to practices/meets/tournaments. I will not stir for friend outings. They are all old enough to bike, walk, bus, or find something else to do.

 

Everything costs in money or time. Make sure you are not bearing the whole cost.

 

I agree. Girlfriend time would be 100% on him/them unless it were a birthday or some special occasion and you wanted to be extra super special nice. Driving him to school and work is already super special nice. 

[Storygirl]

If he could take Uber one way on Saturdays, it would free up a ton of your time. You wouldn't need to hang out on campus for him (or drive back and forth twice). Three to four hours every Saturday may be worth $22 to you, and you could offer to pay for it. Or offer to split it.

 

I completely understand his desire to spend time with his girlfriend instead of hanging out at the library waiting for you. But you could also draw a line on this and say that visiting the girlfriend is something he needs to finance for himself. Or ask her to drive him home, if she has transportation.

 

The hardest part for me would be the middle of the night driving, but it would also be the part I would feel least comfortable leaving to Uber, so I would probably suck it up and do those late night trips.

 

 

[Murphy101]

I had the same issue. A son that didn't get his license until nearly 20 for several reasons.

 

I would drive him to/from school/work/church but that's it. I would not drive him elsewhere unless it's just to be extra nice once in a while. And he had to contribute to filling the gas tank on the van once a week because the majority of my driving was driving him around. Sometimes he got off work at 2:30am and I still had to home school and get other kids where they needed to be at 8am.

 

There's helping and then there's enabling. I'm willing to help him work and be educated. Not all that interested in helping him have time with his gf or get to the movies. I won't give money for it and won't give a ride for it either.

 

Car pooling and uber is simply not an option where I live. The second an employer were to learn he didn't have his own transport, he'd lose his job. And word gets out quick at a job. So it was better to have me give the rides. And frankly, it's unreliable and I'd probably have ended up doing it anyways but it would be an "oh crap my ride didn't show and now I need a ride" last minute, which would just make it harder on me. And there'd be little point to employment here if you had to use uber even half the time bc there'd be no paycheck left.

 

So that's what I did. He eventually got his own license when he was ready for it and I think looking back we had a balance between helping and yet not being onerously used.

 

ETA: I do understand the need to help our kids save money. But they also have to learn to budget. Paying for a tank of gas once a week was important fir that reason. Also, he was expected to save half of every paycheck. The understanding here is that we are more than willing to HELP, but we are not willing to work ourselves into early graves so they can squander and play. As long as they are saving half their paycheck, contributing to the effort in some way, and working/going to school - then I feel we have a good balance going on mutual respect and helping each other.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Murphy101

[Mom22ns]

Am I out of my mind?

 

Yep! I could never keep that schedule. You are a braver mom than I! Good luck!

[mamakelly]

I can't imagine keeping up that schedule. No way.

[JFSinIL]

"

 

My son could make more use of Uber, but one of the reasons we're in this situation is that we are encouraging him to sock away money towards his after-graduation nest egg. It costs all of use less for me to do the round trip than for him to pay someone else to do it.

"

 

He can sock away less money and pay for some of his own travel expenses (car pool, Uber, gas to Mom) if he wants to work those jobs AND go to school AND see gf. It is called becoming an adult, and learning to compromise. While he learns to step up more and take control of his own transportation issues you in turn need to do a little backing down from being so available to drive him hither and yon. Plus, he is a young adult, they are self-centered beasts (I have four of them at present) and you need to be very clear how you can NOT do all the driving he expects, and why.

[Haiku]

Sometimes he got off work at 2:30am and I still had to home school and get other kids where they needed to be at 8am.

 

Every family chooses what works for them, so I am not criticizing you, but this is something I would not do. Losing sleep does not work for me. If my child were dependent on me for transportation to and from a job, my child would have to get a job that didn't involve middle-of-the-night hours. As it happens, my non-driving daughter got a job that meant she was getting off work at 12:30 or 1 am sometimes, but it was three blocks from our house, so she walked home.