Oh man, what have I agreed to? (Update in #218)

[elegantlion]

I think you can do anything for six weeks. I get the driving and trying to help them invest in their future. We moved closer to campus for both of us, ds has 8 a.m. classes this fall and 3 nights of classes, so I already feel like I live on campus. 

 

From my perspective, I would be asking what the next step is IF/WHEN he gets a full time gig at the theme park. I would also consider and watch that I would not be slipping into old comfortable habits, comfortable for both of you I suspect, while sacrificing my own health and job. You do have a new normal, you now have job responsibilities and he can start to figure out logistics for travel that doesn't solely rely on you or girlfriend's parents. So I would brainstorm ideas on how to get them around after the six weeks. 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by elegantlion

[Haiku]

How will your son handle transportation if the temp job becomes a permanent job?

[TheReader]

when my ds was attending TAFE he had to catch a bus that traveled just under 100 km, took over an hour travel and arrived nearly 2 hours before his class started. it was what he had to do. to get home we would pick him up some days and other days he would car pool, occasionally he would have to wait 2 hours after class finished and take the bus home again. 

 

 

 you have to do what you have to do.......

 

 

Yep. More than once a kid of mine has had to be dropped off or start walking hours early or get home way later than otherwise to get where they needed to be on time bc I couldn't bi- or tri-locate myself for them and that was the only way it was going to happen.

 

It sounds like, from Jenny's posts, that he IS doing things like that when able, though. She said there isn't reliable bus service from her house to the school so he isn't using that. But he is, 2x/wk, taking a bus route to  his girlfriend's house, to ride to school (I assume this is him leaving quite early to manage that), then taking a bus from school to Jenny's library job and waiting several hours till time to go home. This may have been in the list more than once, I'm not sure. But it did sound like, to me at least, the kid is doing what he can to work out some compromises based on what works for all the schedules and based on their family culture where Mom is the driver for the family. This seems like the first test of whether Mom can continue to be the all-the-time, for-everyone driver, if I'm reading this right -- DS was away at school when Mom started working outside the home, now he's back (which is saving $$), working 2 jobs and going to school, and everyone agreed, Mom will try to drive him. 

 

It definitely seems like a schedule that could have some tweaks, and maybe as the weeks go on, they will do that. But it also sounds to me like a kid who is at least trying to compromise/work things out, and a positive attitude like that goes a long way in my book. 

[AMJ]

No, he's in college. He started a part-time job at the beginning of the summer. He has a temporary second job, which is also part-time, although he may creep close to full-time hours in three of the scheduled six weeks. He is hoping that the temp job, if it goes well, may open up an opportunity to stay on permanently (although in a different role, since this is a seasonal event), because it pays better than his other job and would also be more of a resume builder for him in the long run. However, since he doesn't yet know whether he'll be able to parlay the temp job into something else, he's hanging onto the first part-time job for now, working just one or two shifts a week to keep his hand in.

 

None of the money is earmarked as "extra fun money." The majority of his earnings from both gigs go directly into savings.

 

Given the further details you have provided and the fact you have made it clear you intend to stick with this driving schedule I recommend that all other family members living at home step up and do the vast bulk of the cooking, cleaning, and laundry.  Since you are the main wheels shopping and running errands will still be on your task list, and since you were handling the family finances it makes sense for you to continue to do so for continuity and stability through this period.  However, cooking, cleaning, and laundry are tasks that can be done by the others whenever they are home, and if they do so it is more potential time for you to sleep (or at least rest a bit).  You can also accept a lower standard on such household chores -- just for the 6 weeks -- if that's what it takes to lighten your load.

 

Any lightening of your load will help you survive the 6 weeks, so please consider this seriously.  

[Bluegoat]

I'm glad you live in a safe neighborhood. I just can't help but think of the girl that got a ride after her job and then wasn't seen for years. http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20697973,00.html

 

 

Meh, I don't think it's a "safe neighbourhood" thing really.  I've lived in areas that were considered dodgy, at that age, and really, it was just as safe to walk at night.  In some cases actually better because there were often more people out and about than in the "nice" areas. 

 

People getting kidnapped like that is rare and can happen at any time and place.

[AMJ]

Since you're committed to it I hope everything proceeds smoothly. Be safe on the road that late :)

 

 

Here's another thought regarding the late-night driving, which is my biggest concern:  Have your DH sacrifice some sleep, too, and go with you when you go to pick your DS up from work.  His job will be to TALK to you the entire time and help you stay alert and attentive.  Once you have picked up your son your husband can move to the back seat and nap, if he wishes.  It will then be your son's job to keep you alert until you are all home safe.

 

Having someone with you BOTH WAYS can help you stay awake and alert, but only if they are interacting with you.  Road hypnotism or falling asleep at the wheel can kill you in seconds without you even realizing it.

 

This is a real concern.  I have had an accident from road hypnotism and a near accident when I fell asleep at the wheel (at 70 mph).  I am lucky to be alive after making these mistakes when I was younger.  Please don't allow the chance to be driving in a similar state.  What will your family do if you are killed or hospitalized, possibly permanently disabled?  Take steps to avoid drowsy driving.  Please.

[Bluegoat]

I just think some of the problem is that you're viewing the theme park job from two perspectives: you say he is doing it for career prospects/resume experience/personal development, so the fact that it doesn't really make financial sense (because he can't afford to pay for transportation to and from the job and must rely on someone else to do it for him) is okay because it's educational or inspirational, etc.

 

But then you say that he can't afford to take a cab home on the late nights (which really seems like the outlier in terms of driving problems) because he needs the money.

 

If the job is a little bit of both, then he can treat it like a little bit of both and pay *some* for driving costs.  Say he pays you half of what a cab would cost - that's a great deal!  Even if he pays you a quarter, then you can take a whole day off every week, or maybe every other evening drive, by using the money he pays you to hire him a cab.

 

This is also my thought - it seems like the only reason for the overlap with two jobs is because ideally, he'd like to be permanent in the theme park job and drop the older one.  But it won't be clear if that will be possible for 6 weeks so in the meantime he needs to do both, so he doesn't end up with nothing.  But it seems like that was never meant to be a long term thing to have both jobs or both incomes.

 

Under those citcumstances, I would view the wages from one of those jobs as fair game to make the temporary situation workable.  It's an investment in the job opportunity, just like buying a uniform or tools.  Once the schedule has gone back to normal, then there won't be the need to spend on extra transport.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Bluegoat

[KungFuPanda]

I think you can do anything for six weeks BUT you need to have a conversation with him now and make it clear that you won't do this again. Otherwise, they'll call him back during the holidays and he'll accept because he assumes you don't mind. If flipping burgers closer to home makes life better for the whole family, do that instead. Have a 'dream job' after burger job has secured you a driver's license and a car. He sounds like a smart and driven kid. In the absence of mom taking up all the slack and absorbing most of the stress, he will puzzle it out and he'll do it in a younger, healthier body too.

[Haiku]

Meh, I don't think it's a "safe neighbourhood" thing really.  I've lived in areas that were considered dodgy, at that age, and really, it was just as safe to walk at night.  In some cases actually better because there were often more people out and about than in the "nice" areas. 

 

People getting kidnapped like that is rare and can happen at any time and place.

 

Yep. Our neighborhood has some crime. It's also full of very nice families. It's a working-class neighborhood. In the "nicer" neighborhood that borders ours, the white-collar neighborhood, a high-school kid was shot and killed by a fellow student over the weekend. In the "ultra" neighborhood that borders ours in a different direction, a rapist named Brock Turner grew up.

[Caroline]

Good luck, Jenny! I know you can do this for six weeks. We have done some crazy maneuvering for kids' jobs, practices, etc. I think it is great that your son got his foot in the door of this temporary job. I know a couple of people who have done that at a theme park here, and it has led to bigger theater jobs, including a national touring production. I have a friend from high school who started at a theme park and now does set design on Broadway for award winning productions.

 

When I drive through Orlando, I think of you.

[heartlikealion]

Meh, I don't think it's a "safe neighbourhood" thing really.  I've lived in areas that were considered dodgy, at that age, and really, it was just as safe to walk at night.  In some cases actually better because there were often more people out and about than in the "nice" areas. 

 

People getting kidnapped like that is rare and can happen at any time and place.

 

I wouldn't want to be alone walking after dark period, really. But that's just me. For the record I shared the story more so because the girl was leaving a late night job when it happened. And she was just accepting a ride (from someone she knew as a neighbor I think).

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by heartlikealion

[regentrude]

 And she was just accepting a ride (from someone she knew as a neighbor I think).

 

So it really has nothing to do with "late at night" or "after dark".

 

[Jilly]

I have also done some crazy driving for my teens and would again if it helps them with their future. I had to drive my son to an internship 2 and a half hours away from our home this summer. I really thought the drive might kill me but he worked hard and made so many connections that I was happy to do it. Yours is an insane schedule but being that it is only six weeks I think it can be done.Good luck!

[ktgrok]

Not exactly: It's not that he can't afford to pay for a cab. Just like he "could" get up at 4:00 a.m. and take the bus to campus, he "could" pay for an Uber to come home a couple of nights a week.

 

However, since we really want to encourage him to save as much as he can, and since the bottom line for the family as a whole unit is that it costs us less for me to pick him up than for him (or us) to pay someone else to do it, I'm willing to do this for him.

 

 

 

In financial terms, yes. But in stress, frustration, lack of sleep, risks to health, and less time spent with your ill husband, does it REALLY cost you less to get him than it does for him to pay for an Uber two nights a week?

[Jenny in Florida]

In financial terms, yes. But in stress, frustration, lack of sleep, risks to health, and less time spent with your ill husband, does it REALLY cost you less to get him than it does for him to pay for an Uber two nights a week?

See, I don't really think it's meaningful to compare actual dollars to intangibles in this scenario.

[ktgrok]

Also, if you are saving thousands of dollars a year on him being at the local university, I'd not hesitate to spend that on his Uber fare back and forth for those late nights. Not one single hesitation. 

 

I really don't think he is taken advantage of you, I think you are undervaluing yourself. Pay for the Uber, and consider it money well spent. 

[almondbutterandjelly]

You definitely seem determined to try it.  So go for it.  But know your limits.  If it becomes too much for you, be real about it.  Make him take the Uber or the bus.  Maybe you are awesome-stamina-girl and this will be no problem for you.  But remember that people falling asleep at the wheel is a real thing, and a far bigger problem than a nineteen year old with a job paying for an uber a couple times a week.  Just be real.  Be safe.  ((hugs))

[hjffkj]

I really don't think he is taken advantage of you, I think you are undervaluing yourself. Pay for the Uber, and consider it money well spent.

I agree with this. I think the way you support your children is amazing and it really sets them up for being financially prepared once they go out on their own. I think financial security is more important at a young age than figuring out transportation logistics.

 

But you not viewing your own time and health as a priority is what I think seems off about the whole arrangement to me. If so much money is being saved with his new college arrangement why not take some of what you would be paying and pay for Uber on those late nights? He is still socking away his money and you get to ease the stress of the schedule a bit for yourself.

[Haiku]

So it really has nothing to do with "late at night" or "after dark".

 

 

Exactly. She may as well have accepted a ride from him to the library at lunchtime.

[Haiku]

See, I don't really think it's meaningful to compare actual dollars to intangibles in this scenario.

 

I compare them all the time. I pay cash money for some things to relieve myself of the emotional, physical, mental, health, or time burden of doing it myself.

 

If the financial savings is worth it to you, then you have your answer. Many (most?) of the respondents on this thread wouldn't feel that way. There's no right or wrong, just different.

[regentrude]

I compare them all the time. I pay cash money for some things to relieve myself of the emotional, physical, mental, health, or time burden of doing it myself.

 

How else would one decide whether it is worth paying for anything but the bare necessities to survive?

[TX Native]

Examples of things many people regularly overpay for to save time, energy, and sanity that cost much less in money to do the old fashioned way: eating out, store brought bread, napkins, diapers, baby food, washing machines, automatic dryers, packaged foods, store brought veggies, butchered meat, shredded cheese, and homeschool curriculum packages. It will likely end up being a $5-$10 savings off the quoted uber price/trip if you count in your average cost of gas money, standard wear and tear on your car from the extra miles, and likely having to eat out more or buy more convenience foods at the store since you likely won't have time to do much food prep. With that each Uber trip for this temp situation, even if he just does the late night one 1-way 2-3x/week, will end up not being $20-$25 (if that was the price you quoted, I read it yesterday and forgot the exact amount) just thrown away...maybe it will be more like $10-$15. That $10-$15 2-3x/week a few weeks is going to end up costing tons less than if he was paying for his own vehicle/insurance/gas.wear and tear maintenance upkeep for 6 weeks. If he is making $10-$15/hour and stocking away about $100-$200/week ( depending on his wage and amount of hours, the exact amount is not my business, Let's say that's $600-1200 for his nest egg from this job), I promise he won't look back after college and think," geez, I could have saved $150-$200 more if my mom hadn't made me pay for an uber a couple times/week." This is all to say, you can relate monetary costs to saving time and energy for your health and sanity.

Edited September 7, 2016 by TX native

[catz]

One thing I would say is if fun job is something that might become longer term, I'd tell him to learn the ropes and get to know the community now.  If this is the theme park I'm thinking of that has many, many employees, there are likely many people already driving to your neck of the woods after hours.  I would tell him to start branching out and networking if this is not workable for you long term and it's something he hopes would transition to something longer term. 

 

I actually have a nephew that majored in dance and lived in Orlando with his parents during the summers in college.  He worked at THE big theme park in entertainment.  I know that he car pooled into and out the park all the time. 

[Jenny in Florida]

I compare them all the time. I pay cash money for some things to relieve myself of the emotional, physical, mental, health, or time burden of doing it myself.

 

If the financial savings is worth it to you, then you have your answer. Many (most?) of the respondents on this thread wouldn't feel that way. There's no right or wrong, just different.

 

 

How else would one decide whether it is worth paying for anything but the bare necessities to survive?

 

 

Examples of things many people regularly overpay for to save time, energy, and sanity that cost much less in money to do the old fashioned way: eating out, store brought bread, napkins, diapers, baby food, washing machines, automatic dryers, packaged foods, store brought veggies, butchered meat, shredded cheese, and homeschool curriculum packages. It will likely end up being a $5-$10 savings off the quoted uber price/trip if you count in your average cost of gas money, standard wear and tear on your car from the extra miles, and likely having to eat out more or buy more convenience foods at the store since you likely won't have time to do much food prep. With that each Uber trip for this temp situation, even if he just does the late night one 1-way 2-3x/week, will end up not being $20-$25 (if that was the price you quoted, I read it yesterday and forgot the exact amount) just thrown away...maybe it will be more like $10-$15. That $10-$15 2-3x/week a few weeks is going to end up costing tons less than if he was paying for his own vehicle/insurance/gas.wear and tear maintenance upkeep for 6 weeks. If he is making $10-$15/hour and stocking away about $100-$200/week ( depending on his wage and amount of hours, the exact amount is not my business, Let's say that's $600-1200 for his nest egg from this job), I promise he won't look back after college and think," geez, I could have saved $150-$200 more if my mom hadn't made me pay for an uber a couple times/week." This is all to say, you can relate monetary costs to saving time and energy for your health and sanity.

 

I understand the concept of comparing potential financial gain to intangibles. My point is that I think it's an academic exercise in this case.

 

The goal here -- and the basis of the agreement that we made with our son -- is for us to continue supporting him in a way that is substantially similar to what we have done and would otherwise do while he is a full-time student in order to allow him to invest his earnings in his future. 

 

It may sound nice to say that my health/sanity/convenience/comfort/whatever is "worth" $50 a week in Uber rides, if we look at this through the lens of the actual goals, here, that is $50 a week that is being spent on something not in the plan. I can't pay down debt with the couple of hours of additional sleep I would get by not driving him home those two nights, and he ends up working a couple of hours a week for nothing just so he can pay his way home from the job.

 

So, in the abstract, I recognize that my health/sanity/convenience/comfort/whatever is of value, I can't justify the financial trade-off in this scenario.

 

That's what I meant when I said the comparison is "not meaningful."

[eternalsummer]

I understand the concept of comparing potential financial gain to intangibles. My point is that I think it's an academic exercise in this case.

 

The goal here -- and the basis of the agreement that we made with our son -- is for us to continue supporting him in a way that is substantially similar to what we have done and would otherwise do while he is a full-time student in order to allow him to invest his earnings in his future. 

 

It may sound nice to say that my health/sanity/convenience/comfort/whatever is "worth" $50 a week in Uber rides, if we look at this through the lens of the actual goals, here, that is $50 a week that is being spent on something not in the plan. I can't pay down debt with the couple of hours of additional sleep I would get by not driving him home those two nights, and he ends up working a couple of hours a week for nothing just so he can pay his way home from the job.

 

So, in the abstract, I recognize that my health/sanity/convenience/comfort/whatever is of value, I can't justify the financial trade-off in this scenario.

 

That's what I meant when I said the comparison is "not meaningful."

 

 

re: the bolded:

 

everyone does this

 

if you have a car and a license or good public transport you work fewer hours to pay for transportation.

 

but almost every adult with a real adult job that they have for the purpose of making money spends some of that money on transportation to and from the job

[ktgrok]

 

The goal here -- and the basis of the agreement that we made with our son -- is for us to continue supporting him in a way that is substantially similar to what we have done and would otherwise do while he is a full-time student in order to allow him to invest his earnings in his future. 

 

It may sound nice to say that my health/sanity/convenience/comfort/whatever is "worth" $50 a week in Uber rides, if we look at this through the lens of the actual goals, here, that is $50 a week that is being spent on something not in the plan.

 

But you were willing to spend much much more than $50 a week for him to attend the other university, right? I mean, if it was worth it then, why not now? If you could pay the money for school, why not pay for your own health and wellbeing? That's what I mean by not valuing your own health and sanity and wellbeing enough. No, it wasn't the plan, but plans change, which is how you got into this. The plan was for him to be in school elsewhere, then live at home and work. You would have been transporting him for work, but not also classes. Then things changed. The plan changed. It can change again. 

[Jenny in Florida]

Actually, if the job is worth it because it will be good on a resume, then ds paying for one or two early morning rides home, and saving slightly less for NYC, is still worthwhile. 

 

I like the idea of taking dh with you on the very late drives, given that you are committed to this schedule for six weeks. Don't underestimate how tiredness can change your driving ability.

 

Again, it's not just about the resume. If he weren't doing the temporary theme park job, he'd be working some or all of those hours at the existing part-time job (although his schedule wouldn't include the late nights). He is working primarily to bank money. Period.

 

However, if he can parlay the temporary theme park job into something still part-time but permanent, it would pay better than his existing part-time job, be more interesting to him, offer him more scope to learn skills that might be helpful to him in his eventual career and look better on a resume. 

 

Taking my husband on the drive is out of the question. Being in a car is painful/difficult for him, whether he's driving or riding along as a passenger. He also weathers lack of sleep much less well than I do. It's utterly pointless for both of us to be exhausted and cranky, especially since he is the primary wage earner by a fairly enormous margin.

[Jenny in Florida]

re: the bolded:

 

everyone does this

 

if you have a car and a license or good public transport you work fewer hours to pay for transportation.

 

but almost every adult with a real adult job that they have for the purpose of making money spends some of that money on transportation to and from the job

 

Of course, but the whole point here is that we are investing this time and effort in him now so that he can transition to the "real adult" world with a financial cushion. I completely fail to see how it makes sense to sacrifice dollars that could/should be going towards that goal to provide for my comfort in the short term.

[ktgrok]

Of course, but the whole point here is that we are investing this time and effort in him now so that he can transition to the "real adult" world with a financial cushion. I completely fail to see how it makes sense to sacrifice dollars that could/should be going towards that goal to provide for my comfort in the short term.

 

Because you are just as important as he is. Your quality of life now matters just as much as his quality of life later. That's what we are all talking about. If you can do this schedule and not end up sick, exhausted, and the worse for wear, more power to you. Seriously. I couldn't. I'd be a basket case by the 2nd week. My mental health and physical well being is not to be sacrificed to another adult, even my child. I matter too. So do you. 

[Jenny in Florida]

But you were willing to spend much much more than $50 a week for him to attend the other university, right? I mean, if it was worth it then, why not now? If you could pay the money for school, why not pay for your own health and wellbeing? That's what I mean by not valuing your own health and sanity and wellbeing enough. No, it wasn't the plan, but plans change, which is how you got into this. The plan was for him to be in school elsewhere, then live at home and work. You would have been transporting him for work, but not also classes. Then things changed. The plan changed. It can change again. 

 

It's clear that I'm not doing a good job of explaning this.

 

I do "value" my health and well-being in a big-picture, abstract way. I also recognize that I'm a pretty sturdy, resilient person who has pulled through busy/tiring situations before and will do so again this time, none the worse for wear. 

 

The comparison to the costs of the private university is also not meaningful from my perspective. It was necessary to pay a certain amount of money to keep him enrolled there. It was a stretch, and paying that amount limited and delayed the opportunities for us to pay down debt and improve our financial situation. One of the factors that went into the decision for him to come home was that not paying that money every month would siginificantly ease that pressure. 

 

It's not necessary to spend $200 a month on Uber when I'm available and willing to drive him, and it makes no sense to me waste dollars that could/should be going towards important long-term financial goals -- either my son's or the familly's -- so I can sleep for a couple of hours.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Jenny in Florida

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don't get some of this discussion. I figure it is up to Jenny to decide if she still wants to do this. But if she has gone into this eyes wide open then it might be hard but it's her choice, right?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jenny in Florida]

Because you are just as important as he is. Your quality of life now matters just as much as his quality of life later. That's what we are all talking about. If you can do this schedule and not end up sick, exhausted, and the worse for wear, more power to you. Seriously. I couldn't. I'd be a basket case by the 2nd week. My mental health and physical well being is not to be sacrificed to another adult, even my child. I matter too. So do you. 

 

Eh, I've done as much or more for longer before, many times. Granted, I was younger and healthier, but I have almost always been able to rise to the occasion before, and I'm sure I'll do it this time, too.

 

My husband calls me the Energizer Bunny because, although I don't necessarily move quickly, I can keep plugging away at a task or a problem long after everyone else drops. 

 

I'm not saying I won't be exhausted and cranky. I'm not saying I can't think of a lot of other things I'd rather be doing. But it's only six weeks. 

[ktgrok]

It makes no sense to me waste dollars that could/should be going towards important long-term financial goals -- either my son's or the familly's -- so I can sleep for a couple of hours.

 

Ok, here's where we differ. I'd pay some significant money right now for sleep. And if I don't get enough sleep,I'm crabby, stressed out, and pretty miserable to be around. So yes, it would make a TON of sense for ME to spend money and delay say, paying down debt for a few months, versus making myself and everyone miserable. 

 

More over, my husband would absolutely be the first one saying I should spend the money, rather than do that drive. He also values my sleep, mental and physical health, etc over paying down debt a bit more quickly. 

 

My family's goals would include everyone, me included,  not being miserable, tired, and cranky, on top of paying down debt. If that meant paying for Uber, cool. Or, conversly, if it meant son paying for Uber and delaying his move to New York by say two weeks, ok, yeah, that would also be reasonable. Because really...that's the worst case scenario, he postpones his big move out by another few weeks to earn a bit more money. Reasonable considering he wants the job that much. Me driving that much would not, in my world, be reasonable. 

 

I am willing to believe however that you require much less sleep, and don't get as stressed and cranky as I do in such a situation. Which would change things, I imagine. 

[Jenny in Florida]

Ok, here's where we differ. I'd pay some significant money right now for sleep. And if I don't get enough sleep,I'm crabby, stressed out, and pretty miserable to be around. So yes, it would make a TON of sense for ME to spend money and delay say, paying down debt for a few months, versus making myself and everyone miserable. 

 

More over, my husband would absolutely be the first one saying I should spend the money, rather than do that drive. He also values my sleep, mental and physical health, etc over paying down debt a bit more quickly. 

 

My family's goals would include everyone, me included,  not being miserable, tired, and cranky, on top of paying down debt. If that meant paying for Uber, cool. Or, conversly, if it meant son paying for Uber and delaying his move to New York by say two weeks, ok, yeah, that would also be reasonable. Because really...that's the worst case scenario, he postpones his big move out by another few weeks to earn a bit more money. Reasonable considering he wants the job that much. Me driving that much would not, in my world, be reasonable. 

 

I am willing to believe however that you require much less sleep, and don't get as stressed and cranky as I do in such a situation. Which would change things, I imagine. 

 

Oh, my husband also thinks I'm crazy. And he would be arguing your side of this, if he didn't know me well enough to know he'd lose.

 

And I am absolutely including myself in the family goals; I find owing money to be incredibly stressful. The only way I've handled being so far in debt for the last however-many years is by some combination of believing there was nothing I could do about it and just not thinking about it. I'm super excited to be finally in a position to make some progress on resolving the situation. I get positively giddy when I can write a check for the full amount we owe on a given bill. 

 

And, although I won't pretend I always handle exhaustion with angelic grace, I'm mostly pretty good about keeping the impact of my crankiness on others to a minimum (I think). 

Edited September 7, 2016 by Jenny in Florida

[Valley Girl]

Oh, my husband also thinks I'm crazy. And he would be arguing your side of this, if he didn't know me well enough to know he'd lose.

 

And I am absolutely including myself in the family goals; I find owing money to be incredibly stressful. The only way I've handled being so far in debt for the last however-many years is by some combination of believing there was nothing I could do about it and just not thinking about it. I'm super excited to be finally in a position to make some progress on resolving the situation. I get positively giddy when I can write a check for the full amount we owe on a given bill. 

 

And, although I won't pretend I always handle exhaustion with angelic grace, I'm mostly pretty good about keeping the impact of my crankiness on others to a minimum (I think). 

 

Well, to me it sounds as though there really isn't an issue then. Maybe this was more of a JAWM thread than anything else? If so, I'll go back to the question in the OP, which was "Am I out of my mind?" Maybe. Maybe not. If it were me, the answer would be "yes." But that doesn't matter. If the short-term craziness of the schedule results in being able to meet goals that are important to you and you feel you can do it, that's wonderful. I'm sure you'll make it work. I totally understand wanting to not sweat the bills. Best of luck.

[Jenny in Florida]

Well, to me it sounds as though there really isn't an issue then. Maybe this was more of a JAWM thread than anything else? 

 

Yeah, as I said, it was pretty much the result of a momentary freak-out when I actually looked at the calendar.

[ktgrok]

Yeah, as I said, it was pretty much the result of a momentary freak-out when I actually looked at the calendar.

 

Has your son looked at the calendar with you? I'm curious to his reaction to seeing how much time you are going to be on the road/working/etc. 

[Jenny in Florida]

Anyone else feel like a slacker mom now ? :)

 

I think you are setting too high of a standard for the rest of us, Jenny!

 

Um, no. Driving around happens to be one of the things I'm good at/willing to do. Both of my kids could give you long lists of my failings, though.

[Guest]

Um, no. Driving around happens to be one of the things I'm good at/willing to do. Both of my kids could give you long lists of my failings, though.

Truthfully I don't mind driving around either, I really kind of enjoy it except in bumper to bumper traffic. Most of us are just concern about your morning turnaround time and sleepiness issues while driving because of the cumulative effect of so many late nights and early mornings :grouphug:

[ktgrok]

Um, no. Driving around happens to be one of the things I'm good at/willing to do. Both of my kids could give you long lists of my failings, though.

 

Ah, see, it's my least favorite mom thing. Ever. At least, it is in the Orlando area. The traffic makes me insane. So stressful. It's the main thing I dislike about Orlando. 

[bettyandbob]

 

 

It may sound nice to say that my health/sanity/convenience/comfort/whatever is "worth" $50 a week in Uber rides, if we look at this through the lens of the actual goals, here, that is $50 a week that is being spent on something not in the plan. I can't pay down debt with the couple of hours of additional sleep I would get by not driving him home those two nights, and he ends up working a couple of hours a week for nothing just so he can pay his way home from the job.

 

I think anyone who has to pay for transportation is working some hours just to pay for transportation. I work some hours to pay for child-care for my ds who hasintellectual disabilities. It's strategic. The start or end of a shift may overlap childcare needs. Another part of the strategy is by taking shifts that don't completely benefit financially, I am getting the intangible of "boss counts on me" which translates to giving more/better responsibilities and certain shifts I really want. It works into the notion "you have to spend money to make money." You ds could invest (pay for some transportation) for the long-term benefits (having the job for resume/references and the possibility of going from temp to permanent).

 

This leads to what are you going to do if he does realize the benefits and gets a permanent position? It sounds like you will continue to do middle of the night driving because you have always done it.

 

Also you said he would work ball those hours at the dance studio if he weren't at the theme park. Not quite. I'm going to wildly speculate that the studio is not teaching classes as late as 1 am.

 

Anyway I hope you think about the scenario beyond 6 weeks and have figured out how to handle it. I suppose the park will close a little earlier after Halloween.

[Soror]

I truly wish you well and hope this season passes as smoothly as possible considering everything.

 

But

 

Please look at more self care. Our bodies are not indestructible. Health forums I frequent are littered with people just like you ( and me- I'm a recovering Type A- people always told me they wondered how I got so much done- I'm dealing with the effects of it now). People push and push and push, at some point the body can't handle it anymore. Stress takes a serious toll on the body in real ways that aren't so quickly reversed, especially as we age. So, I'm obviously in the camp that thinks you are crazy because nothing you mention is worth the loss of health (not to mention the safety implications of driving w/ sleep dep). I was just reading about stress and the body, it is really amazing and scary.

Edited September 8, 2016 by soror

[brehon]

Jenny, first of all best of luck to you during this exhausting time! Second, I work in a job where I am expected to drive in all types of weather and regardless of how tired I may be.

 

Please remember two things. One, all the studies and meta-studies have shown that driving tired is the equivalent of driving drunk. In fact, though I don't remember the exact numbers, as I recall, tiredness equates to a BAC of something like 0.1 or so. In my area that's well over the legal limit.

 

Second, remember that reaction time slows significantly when tired. You may not be able to react quickly enough or correctly (for whatever the situation is) if something were to happen.

 

Third, and you certainly don't have to answer "out loud", if this temp gig were to turn into a permanent PT job, would the hours be more reasonable? If they were, if fact, more reasonable time wise, would you still be able to drive given your jobs?

 

I do wish you the best of luck! You are obviously a wonderfully caring mom!

[Haiku]

It's clear that I'm not doing a good job of explaning this.

 

I think you're explaining it just fine. It's just that most of us disagree with you. :D

 

You don't owe us any explanations or justifications. If you're going to do it, do it. But as long as you keep engaging, we will probably keep talking about it. ;)

 

The only thing I haven't seen you address is: what happens if your son gets a permanent job at the theme park? Will you keep picking him up in the middle of the night indefinitely?

[EmseB]

I'm with a PP, I would bet there's a carpool network of some kinds and OP's DS could probably get rides home for the cost of gas once he's been there for a little while. And if I were the OP and didn't want DS paying for gas, I'd still rather pay for carpool gas and get my sleep!!

[Jan in SC]

I get it! My oldest can drive now, but not at night, so if he has tech, or late rehearsals, one of us has to drive wherever it is to get him. It is what it is. Usually it's exhausting, but it's only a season. I don't think it's something that people not in the arts can understand. Most people think it's pointless and a waste on the investment. There are other challenging careers, but they seem more worthwhile to most of society. You're doing a great thing for your son to help him reach his goal. I don't know the specifics of why he doesn't drive, but you know your kid, so I won't give you any grief.

 

I hope it's a productive six weeks and it really helps with his goals!

[AMJ]

See, I don't really think it's meaningful to compare actual dollars to intangibles in this scenario.

 

 

The "intangibles" might appear to be so now, but they can have a very real effect on your finances AND your quality, even length of, life later on.  Many of us voicing concern about the impact on your health and well-being have already been there, done that (or done very similar), and found out how very heavy the cost can be later on.

 

I have short-changed myself for the sake of my kids and others, even for the sake of my own opportunities.  Each time it was supposed to be just temporary.  Those "temporary" situations had a nasty habit of growing quite prolonged, and even when one might come to an end other situations cropped up because the precedent was already set that I could afford the time, energy, and resources because I was handling this other thing that had ended (the perception was I had "time to spare").  The harshest realization was that I was the biggest culprit falling into the mindset of "of course AMJ can take this on".

 

If you want to follow your original plan as outlined in your OP then do so, but do it with your eyes open, recognizing that this is a situation that will require other areas of your life to give way in the meantime (talking household matters and time with family here, not your paycheck jobs).  Also realize that this cannot continue unaltered for the long term, and discuss these realities with your son and husband NOW so that none of you form unrealistic expectations for after the 6 weeks are up.

 

You have asked for opinions and gotten them, along with explanations of why we think as we do.  What you do with this information is entirely up to you.  Just know that we all wish the best for you and your family.

[Jenny in Florida]

The "intangibles" might appear to be so now, but they can have a very real effect on your finances AND your quality, even length of, life later on.  Many of us voicing concern about the impact on your health and well-being have already been there, done that (or done very similar), and found out how very heavy the cost can be later on.

 

I have short-changed myself for the sake of my kids and others, even for the sake of my own opportunities.  Each time it was supposed to be just temporary.  Those "temporary" situations had a nasty habit of growing quite prolonged, and even when one might come to an end other situations cropped up because the precedent was already set that I could afford the time, energy, and resources because I was handling this other thing that had ended (the perception was I had "time to spare").  The harshest realization was that I was the biggest culprit falling into the mindset of "of course AMJ can take this on".

 

If you want to follow your original plan as outlined in your OP then do so, but do it with your eyes open, recognizing that this is a situation that will require other areas of your life to give way in the meantime (talking household matters and time with family here, not your paycheck jobs).  Also realize that this cannot continue unaltered for the long term, and discuss these realities with your son and husband NOW so that none of you form unrealistic expectations for after the 6 weeks are up.

 

You have asked for opinions and gotten them, along with explanations of why we think as we do.  What you do with this information is entirely up to you.  Just know that we all wish the best for you and your family.

 

See, I think that line you bolded gets to the heart of my feelings about this: The word "culprit" implies there's some injustice or misdeed here, and I don't see it that way at all. I don't feel victimized. I don't envision myself as sacrificing myself here in any way.

 

I, too, have "been there" for a good many years, now. As Jan in SC shared, those of us who have artsy kids know that this kind of thing is just part of the deal. My daughter did her first community theatre production when she was nine, and I don't think I've stopped driving in the 12 years since then. Things didn't get any easier when she went to the early college program and I spent the next four years making an average of 10 1,600-mile round trips every year to deliver her to campus, bring her home from campus and see all of her shows. Meanwhile, my son was coming up right behind with a full slate of activities of his own.

 

The only things new or different about this particular round are that I'm older and somewhat less healthy than I used to be and that I have additional responsibilities in the form of paid work. And that is, to some degree, balanced by the fact that I have only one at home now to run around. But, in any case, it's not like I don't know what I'm getting into or like this is some new imposition or burden placed upon me by a demanding or unreasonable family. It's just part of what I do, what I've always done.

 

So, as I've said a few times now, I wasn't really asking for advice. I just posted in the midst of a momentary freak-out. It's (mostly) passed now. 

[Jenny in Florida]

He should also be helping around the house, at a minimum can't he do his own laundry and clean up after himself in the kitchen? Better, he could help with the laundry, dishes, yard maintenance, etc.? I assume he at least keeps his own mess contained to his room?

 

Sorry, I missed this until now.

 

He does do much of his own food prep. I keep the kitchen stocked and cook a couple of meals a week with intentional left-overs for lunches (and can usually be counted on to provide a simple breakfast to take on the road, if asked nicely), but otherwise meals are catch-as-catch can around here. He packs lunches/dinners to take to work and school (often packing for his girlfriend, too), makes his own late-night meals or snacks if he's hungry after work and is responsible for cleaning up after himself in the kitchen. He hasn't always been great about that last part in the past, so we went to a system by which we fine him each time he leaves a mess. Since we implemented that, he's blown it only one time.

 

We experimented with having him do the lawn maintenence, but his schedule makes it very difficult for him to be available when the work needs to get done. 

 

I do the laundry because it's just easier for one person to handle it, and it's one of the chores I mind least.

 

His mess is mostly contained to his spaces (room, garage work area).

 

He is also responsible for making sure the hall bathroom is clean before my husband's gaming group arrives every Friday evening.

 

I'm not sure where folks got the impression that he is some kind of slug or slacker. That's really not fair.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Jenny in Florida

[Jean in Newcastle]

Jenny, if you stop trying to justify things this thread will go away.